Jamal Lewis To Plead Guilty: What Should The NFL Do?

[Swaggs]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1895175

This is going to be interesting.

If Lewis is admitting guilt to planning a drug transaction and distributing cocaine, what should the NFL do?

Between balancing how bad of an offense this is (comparing it to steroid use, marijuana use, domestic abuse, etc) and what type of black eye this has on the NFL's public image, what type of discipline should Lewis receive?

[rkmsuf]

4 games and 100 yards deducted from his rushing total.

[gottimd]

Tar and Feather.

I agree, 4 games like everybody else.

[Blax]

Sit him down just like Smith.

[Samdari]

I normally would advocate a huge penalty, as drug trafficking is the kind of behavior you want to discourage in your employees.

However, these actions occured before he signed his first contract. I would think there would be legal questions as to when exactly he becomes subject to the NFLPA CBA. I think they need to negotiate a suspension that he will accept without protest and move on quickly.

[cthomer5000]

I would say nothing, since this was pre-NFL activity.

[gottimd]

I think they need to negotiate a suspension that he will accept without protest and move on quickly.


What are the chances of that? Yes it was before he signed his contract but it is still a plea he is entering at this moment. I am not sure of his contract terms, but I am sure any suspension will dock some pay, therefore, his agent losing money, therefore nothing will be acceptable unless it is no suspension at all. When did this happen? Right before he signed it? He should've steered clear of all of those situations to begin with knowing he was about to "make bank" as a pro player. I don't think the league will let it slide, and they definitely shouldn't open up suspension to be a negotiated term, it should either be do it or don't.

[Samdari]

Yes it was before he signed his contract but it is still a plea he is entering at this moment.

So, he should be punished more harshly because his actions occurred under the watch of an incompetent/overworked/sleepy (take your pick) prosecutor.

That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[Blax]

I would say nothing, since this was pre-NFL activity.

Ahhh...read the whole article.
NFL shouldn't do anything and let the courts handle it.

[gottimd]

No, he did something illegal. Its a shame that the legal system gives athletes and actors/actresses all of these breaks when the common folk get penalized heavily for them.

What he did was wrong, and if the worst thing that comes out of it for him is a 4 game suspension by the NFL, while the rest of us would be spending numerous years or so in prison, then he should be happy, and not try to appeal a suspension levied by the league on him.

[Klinglerware]

Season long suspension, but after I pick up Chester Taylor in my fantasy league.

Seriously, I agree with cthomer--if all of this happened several years prior to Lewis' professional career, it seems a little weak that the NFL is involving themselves with this at all.

[Swaggs]

I'm curious as to whether people think that whether or not the violation effects the player's performance should be factored in. To me, there is no question that distributing cocaine is worse than an individual using steroids, but distributing cocaine (beyond mental duress) does not effect the outcome of games, while steroid use can/does.

In my opinion, this deserves a more severe suspension than the 2-4 games mentioned in that article. This is a pretty severe crime. I think playing in the NFL and making all that money should be a privilege, and not a right, so I hope the Ravens and NFL give him a pretty severe punishment.

[cthomer5000]

and just for clarification


Lewis, 25, was a first-round draft choice of the Ravens in 2000. The alleged drug crimes occurred after the draft but before Lewis, who played at Tennessee, signed his first NFL contract.
I guess it makes the area a bit grayer. Should it be considered pre-NFL activity because he wasn't signed? Or should it be considered as part of his NFL career since he'd been drafted?

[John Galt]

I think he should be banned for at least a season. Even though his conduct was before he started in the league, the NFL (or any league) can't afford to be "mobbed up" in any meaningful way. As long as drugs are illegal in this country, organized crime will control distribution and you can't have players involved in gang/mob activity. It just creates wayyyy too many problems (and they aren't just public relations problems).

[gottimd]

Did it happen years before or right before he signed his contract? (answered below, I post so damn slow)

Either way, I'm not saying the NFL should set an example by suspending him, but what he did was illegal, and I assume somewhere in the players union, contract, it most likely states that off field actions no matter when or where can be punishable by the NFL.

Next thing you know, murderers will be in the league....oh wait.....

[cthomer5000]

In my opinion, this deserves a more severe suspension than the 2-4 games mentioned in that article. This is a pretty severe crime. I think playing in the NFL and making all that money should be a privilege, and not a right, so I hope the Ravens and NFL give him a pretty severe punishment.
But legally speaking, he was not a member of the NFL or the Ravens while these crimes occured. Why in the world should they punish him for something that occured before his NFL career?

[cthomer5000]

Did it happen years before or right before he signed his contract?
Between being drafted and signing his first contract.

[cthomer5000]

Can anyone think of any precedent for the NFL suspending a player for activity that occured before they were in the league?

[gottimd]

I think any illegal activity should be frowned upon to say the least. These are pro athletes who kids look up to and set examples for the general public. I guess I am looking at it in a close minded way, because if I knew I was about to make that much money or was making that much money, I sure as hell wouldn't jeopardize it one bit.

[Klinglerware]

Yes, I got a little confused--the activity did occur a little before Lewis signed his contract (though it took years before he was actually indicted). But still, it happened before he signed the contract, so he was not a Baltimore Ravens employee at the time...

[gottimd]

He was drafted though, so essentially don't his rights/obligations as a professional football player begin at that point, since he may not officially be a part of a team, but he is a part of the NFL.

[EagleFan]

For those who don't think the NFL should do anything, how about you try a little test. Go apply for a job and sometime between getting offered the job and actually signing your paperwork; go try out a little drug trafficking. Try that whole "It was before I signed" crap and see how far it gets you.

[Ksyrup]

This is very simple:

Conduct Policy

</FORM><FORM name=detailsForm action=main.asp?subPage=Conduct+Policy method=post>Persons Covered by Policy
The following persons ("Covered Persons") shall be considered subject to this Policy: (i) all players under contract; (ii) all full-time employees of the National Football League, its Member Clubs and related entities; (iii) all rookie players nce they are selected in the NFL College Draft; and (iv) all undrafted rookie players, unsigned veterans and other prospective employees once they commence negotiations with a Club concerning employment.


Conduct Policy

</FORM><FORM name=detailsForm action=main.asp?subPage=Conduct+Policy method=post>Persons Convicted of Criminal Activity


Any Covered Person convicted of or admitting to a criminal violation (including a plea to a lesser included offense; a plea of nob contendere or no contest; or the acceptance of a diversionary program, deferred adjudication, disposition of supervision, or similar arrangement) will be subject to discipline as determined by the Commissioner. Such discipline may include a fine, suspension without pay and/or banishment from the League. Any Covered Person convicted of or admitting to a second criminal violation will be suspended without pay or banished for a period of time to be determined by the Commissioner.

</FORM><FORM name=detailsForm action=main.asp?subPage=Conduct+Policy method=post></FORM><FORM name=vbform onsubmit="return checkQR(this);" action=newreply.php method=post></FORM>

<FORM name=vbform onsubmit="return checkQR(this);" action=newreply.php method=post>I think that settles that. However, I would argue that even if this conduct occurred before the draft, the Commissioner is still within his rights to take action, because the Conduct Policy clearly makes the conviction or entry of a plea the basis (or one of the bases) for action, not the underlying conduct.

[MikeVic]

Is he getting any significant punishment from the courts? He should get something from the NFL too. He was on his way to becoming an NFL employee. It's not like he will be drafted high, and then NOT sign with an NFL team.

[scooper]

For those noting that he had not yet signed his contract, what would be your opinion if a long time player committed a similar crime while he was a free agent? Could you argue that he is not a member of the NFL due to lack of a contract?

[Blackadar]

I think he should be gone for the year.

[gottimd]

Don't forget about Waivers!

[Swaggs]

I can see the point about not punishing a player for something that happened before his employment, but there are a lot of things to consider.

It seems like if I got hired for a job and then comitted a crime before my first day on the job, I would not be shocked if they no longer wanted to employ me or wanted to put me on a probation after finding out about the crime.

As JG pointed out, having ties to drug transporters can lead to some major problems with pro athletes. What if they can implicate Lewis on other crimes he comitted but have not been picked upped by the feds yet, and decide to hold that over his head unless he makes sure that games turn out in a certain way?

And, I'm not sure where this falls in, but it seems somewhat relevent to me that Lewis, had he not been an elite NFL player that makes a lot of money, would likely not have been able to hire the same caliber attorneys that got his legal punishment minimized.

I guess I just have a lot of negative thoughts on this behavior that may not equal up to anything.

[EagleFan]

I think Ksyrup's post pretty much makes this issue 'case closed'. There should be NFL action taken against him.

[Ksyrup]

Odd. I'm trying to edit my post to add the 'o' in once, and I can't do it. It keeps taking me to a blank white screen. I have never had that happen before.

[cthomer5000]

Ok, he should be suspended. Rest of the season?

[Ksyrup]

I think Ksyrup's post pretty much makes this issue 'case closed'. There should be NFL action taken against him.
The sad thing is that it took me all of 5 minutes to google "NFL conduct policy", and it's right on the NFLPA's website. Whoever wrote that article could have done the same and given us the answer, rather than write an article with no conclusion, as if this is some "to be decided, it's up in the air" thing. It seems pretty clear that he's subject to the Policy.

[Samdari]

I think he should be banned for at least a season. Even though his conduct was before he started in the league, the NFL (or any league) can't afford to be "mobbed up" in any meaningful way. As long as drugs are illegal in this country, organized crime will control distribution and you can't have players involved in gang/mob activity. It just creates wayyyy too many problems (and they aren't just public relations problems).

You know to me, his 'conduct' was not illegal to begin with. In general, John, I agree with you on your stance on drugs (EDIT: in fact, I would espouse a lifetime ban for any active NFL player convicted of drug trafficking) but the drug buy that Jamal is accused of arranging never happened. But, from what I understand, that is a necesary component of a conspiracy charge. Prosecuting someone for considering breaking the law - but not going through with it - falls under the purview of 'thoughtcrime'

So, unless the facts or law are different from what I originally read about this case, I am not convinced that Lewis broke any laws, and is only doing this to make sure he doesn't lose on the 'puncher's chance' you have to lose any case.

[Blackadar]

You know to me, his 'conduct' was not illegal to begin with. In general, John, I agree with you on your stance on drugs (EDIT: in fact, I would espouse a lifetime ban for any active NFL player convicted of drug trafficking) but the drug buy that Jamal is accused of arranging never happened. But, from what I understand, that is a necesary component of a conspiracy charge. Prosecuting someone for considering breaking the law - but not going through with it - falls under the purview of 'thoughtcrime'

So, unless the facts or law are different from what I originally read about this case, I am not convinced that Lewis broke any laws, and is only doing this to make sure he doesn't lose on the 'puncher's chance' you have to lose any case.

If the case was that thin, there's no way he accept this plea. To think that Jamal Lewis would accept a drug plea, jail time and have to testify against his friend if there wasn't a strong case is unfathomable.

Before anyone mentions it, it's far different for Ray Lewis to accept a cop-out obstruction-of-justice plea on murder charges (that case was a sham) than it is for Jamal Lewis to take jail time on a drug charge.

[John Galt]

You know to me, his 'conduct' was not illegal to begin with. In general, John, I agree with you on your stance on drugs (EDIT: in fact, I would espouse a lifetime ban for any active NFL player convicted of drug trafficking) but the drug buy that Jamal is accused of arranging never happened. But, from what I understand, that is a necesary component of a conspiracy charge. Prosecuting someone for considering breaking the law - but not going through with it - falls under the purview of 'thoughtcrime'

So, unless the facts or law are different from what I originally read about this case, I am not convinced that Lewis broke any laws, and is only doing this to make sure he doesn't lose on the 'puncher's chance' you have to lose any case.

I don't know anything about the facts of the case, but the league should go by whatever the plea says. Lewis will have to allocute to the "facts" and those should be the conduct punished.

Normally, however, you can prosecuted for "intent" (which is different than "conspiracy") even if the predicate act is never performed. However, jurisdictions require some act (the phrasing of that act varies by jurisdiction) to be performed so that it isn't just a "thought crime." Similar rules exist for "conspiracy" but the act in question has to do with whether someone joins the conspiracy.

[Klinglerware]

For those who don't think the NFL should do anything, how about you try a little test. Go apply for a job and sometime between getting offered the job and actually signing your paperwork; go try out a little drug trafficking. Try that whole "It was before I signed" crap and see how far it gets you.

But in the end, it is at the employer's discretion. The NFL/Ravens could punish Lewis or they could not. As for EagleFan's test, what an employer decides to do is completely at the whim of the employer. Some employees are more equal than others--how harshly your employer deals with you, for better or worse, depends on how valuable your employer considers you to be. Take the US military as another example. "Don't ask, don't tell" is a clearly delineated policy in the military: say that you are a homosexual, you will be discharged. However, "don't ask, don't tell" enforcement is a bit more spotty in Iraq--since manpower is a serious issue these days, retaining combat soldiers is seen as a more valuable pursuit. Thus, the US military is more likely to treat our soldiers a bit more leniently...

[Blackadar]

Remember that Jamal Lewis has already been suspended for 4 games for 2 violations of the NFL's drug policy. Three strikes gets you suspended for a year - hence the punishment I mentioned above.

[Ksyrup]

I don't think the NFL should suspend him at all because...

ONE MIAMI DOLPHINS TEAM IN THE LEAGUE IS ALREADY ONE TOO MANY! WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER ONE!!!


Seriously, though, he should be gone for a year, IMO. But he won't.

[Kodos]

I agree he should be gone for a year.

[Abe Sargent]

What's with people suddenly going against the NFL acting like a business?

Let's suppose that I was hired to be a salesman for a company. After working for them for a couple of years, m,y court case where I was involved in drug trafficking comes to trial. The trafficking happened bnefore I was interviewed and hired. Since this is a smaller city, my case is big news, and weekly updates are on the 6 o'clock news.

If I plea bargian, thus admitting my cupability, shouldn't the company that I am working for have a right to discipline me? Maybe even fire me? I am tarnishing the image of the company that I work for, and the company has a right to address that grievance. Why should the NFL be any different? Football pl;ayers are representatives of the company, and a bad image can tarnish that. If a criminal plea bargaining occurs that tarnishes the image of the player, why shouldn't the league discipline the player - no matter when it occured? The consequence of that crime hurts the league now, so why shouldn't the punishment be the same?

-Anxiety

[Samdari]

If the case was that thin, there's no way he accept this plea. To think that Jamal Lewis would accept a drug plea, jail time and have to testify against his friend if there wasn't a strong case is unfathomable.

Before anyone mentions it, it's far different for Ray Lewis to accept a cop-out obstruction-of-justice plea on murder charges (that case was a sham) than it is for Jamal Lewis to take jail time on a drug charge.

Well, if you stood to make his money, would you take this deal, or a 5% chance that it all goes away.

Like I said, the article I read about this case when it first came to light was even more of a sham than the Lewis case. But, I do concede that this (or any) article is going to contain one version of the facts. There may be others.

Still, I think both parties agree that the transaction discussed never took place, and thus Lewis is guilty of only considering breaking the law.

[John Galt]

Well, if you stood to make his money, would you take this deal, or a 5% chance that it all goes away.

Like I said, the article I read about this case when it first came to light was even more of a sham than the Lewis case. But, I do concede that this (or any) article is going to contain one version of the facts. There may be others.

Still, I think both parties agree that the transaction discussed never took place, and thus Lewis is guilty of only considering breaking the law.

If that were really the case, there wouldn't be a plea because there would be 0% chance he would be convicted. The judge would never let the case go to the jury (so there is no crapshoot) and on the off chance he did, he would set aside their verdict.

When "both sides" of an illegal transaction say nothing took place, they usually have an incentive for saying that - it doesn't mean it is true.

[albionmoonlight]

What's with people suddenly going against the NFL acting like a business?

Let's suppose that I was hired to be a salesman for a company. After working for them for a couple of years, m,y court case where I was involved in drug trafficking comes to trial. The trafficking happened bnefore I was interviewed and hired. Since this is a smaller city, my case is big news, and weekly updates are on the 6 o'clock news.

If I plea bargian, thus admitting my cupability, shouldn't the company that I am working for have a right to discipline me? Maybe even fire me? I am tarnishing the image of the company that I work for, and the company has a right to address that grievance. Why should the NFL be any different? Football pl;ayers are representatives of the company, and a bad image can tarnish that. If a criminal plea bargaining occurs that tarnishes the image of the player, why shouldn't the league discipline the player - no matter when it occured? The consequence of that crime hurts the league now, so why shouldn't the punishment be the same?

-Anxiety
To respond to your specific question--the CBA changes things. The contract that the NFL signed with the union dictates how discipline should be administered. Any punishment the NFL gives will have to conform with that contract.

It would be the same for you if you were a member of a union.

[Noop]

Why should yall care?

[sabotai]

The sad thing is that it took me all of 5 minutes to google "NFL conduct policy", and it's right on the NFLPA's website. Whoever wrote that article could have done the same and given us the answer, rather than write an article with no conclusion, as if this is some "to be decided, it's up in the air" thing. It seems pretty clear that he's subject to the Policy.

Not to mention every sports analyst or writer you see on TV, hear on the radio or read in the newspaper. It's a non-issue on if he should be suspended or not, as you showed. But there's still debate over it.

As for me, gone for the rest of the year, but he'll only get 4 games.

[Joe]

Why should yall care?


Just incase they are ever in the NFL and plan to do a little drug traffiking on the side?

[ISiddiqui]

Well if's already got the 4 game suspension for 2 failed drug tests, he should be banned for a year.

[Noop]

Just incase they are ever in the NFL and plan to do a little drug traffiking on the side?
Question I know you had another name before what was it?

[stevew]

If the case was that thin, there's no way he accept this plea. To think that Jamal Lewis would accept a drug plea, jail time and have to testify against his friend if there wasn't a strong case is unfathomable.

Before anyone mentions it, it's far different for Ray Lewis to accept a cop-out obstruction-of-justice plea on murder charges (that case was a sham) than it is for Jamal Lewis to take jail time on a drug charge.



I also cannot buy the fact that Lewis would take a plea to avoid trial when he has a lot of money. Normal people with limited resources take pleas, he could have easily fought this. He should be gone for at least a year, or even possibly banned for life. I fucking hate the ravens, so call me biased. But if Hines Ward was involved in a drug trafficking ring, i'd want to see him banished too.


\

[The_herd]

Why should yall care?

Because like or not, Jamal Lewis is a role model to a whole lot of children along with a host of other reasons already addressed in this thread.

[Swaggs]

ESPN is reporting that Lewis plead guilty to "using a cell phone to try to set up a drug deal." Sounds like he will have to spend four months in prison, after the season ends and will be suspended by the NFL for 2 games.

The suspension sounds a little light to me, but maybe the crime isn't as bad as I am thinking. I guess I don't know a lot of people that do or sell cocaine.

[Ksyrup]

Apparently Jamal didn't either, since the person he contacted was an FBI informant.

[Blackadar]

ESPN is reporting that Lewis plead guilty to "using a cell phone to try to set up a drug deal." Sounds like he will have to spend four months in prison, after the season ends and will be suspended by the NFL for 2 games.

The suspension sounds a little light to me, but maybe the crime isn't as bad as I am thinking. I guess I don't know a lot of people that do or sell cocaine.

The suspension sounds like a joke given he's a 2-time loser in the NFL's drug program. My guess is the legality of a longer suspension is the problem...

[RendeR]

I'd say a minimum of 1 year, he does already have 2 strikes against him. I would suggest a lifetime ban based on the fact that the NFL's image to the public is going to get hammerd because of this if they don't act strongly. I think they almost have to make it a full year to withstand public scrutiny.

yeah he plead guilty to drug traffiking charges...only lost 4 games...oooooooo.....fucking elitist money grubbing league anyway....

just a thought.

[Ksyrup]

It's pretty well-reported that it'll be a 2-4 game suspension. I suspect it's already been worked out, since his attorney was spouting the "whatever the punishment is, he'll accept it" line all day yesterday. He wouldn't do that unless he had assurances that the suspension would be no more than X number of games. And I can't imagine he would think 1 year is acceptable.

[RendeR]

figures, fricking wuss ass commisioner's office.....

[henry296]

He doesn't have two strikes against him. He has gone a period of time, I believe 2 years, without a positive test. Therefore, he is no longer part of the NFL's substance abuse program.

[Galaril]

The suspension sounds like a joke given he's a 2-time loser in the NFL's drug program. My guess is the legality of a longer suspension is the problem...

The NFL should be(they won't of course) ashamed of themselves.