The Randy Johnson trade...

[SackAttack]

...gets worse every time I turn around. ESPN Insider is reporting that right now the deal looks something like this:

D'Backs get:

Brad Penny
Shawn Green
an unnamed minor league pitcher

Yankees get:

Kazuhisa Ishii
Randy Johnson

Dodgers get:

Javier Vazquez
Dioner Navarro
Eric Duncan

Okay, I'm sorry, but I think Paul Depodesta has officially lost his mind. We're probably letting Perez and Lima walk, and he's trading Brad Penny and Kaz Ishii for Javy Vazquez. We've been aced out for Carl Pavano and Matt Clement. Who the hell is going to fill out the rotation? Is he relying on Koufax coming out of retirement?

Dammit, SkyDog, you need to add the 'rant' smiley over here.

[Bomber]

Kaz Ishii is being trade solely to free up money, for who I don't know, but it saves the Dodger $5 million this year. Plus he sucks. Vazquez should be very good for them with his return to the NL, and a chance to work with a pitching coach who can fix his mechanic problems. Between him and Weaver the Dodgers can hopefully prove to the Yankees that Mel is the real reason their young pitchers have sucked.

[SackAttack]

Maybe, but my point is, if you're going to do something like this, you need to have made a move on some of the quality starting pitchers while they were still available. Who's left at this point to fill Ishii's spot in the rotation? Right now we've got Weaver, Dessens, and if this trade goes through, Vazquez. That still leaves us two men shy of a full rotation, unless we bring back Perez and do something else.

[SackAttack]

Terrible. Depodesta better have something fucking major up his sleeve, and I mean major in a GOOD way, none of this anal screwing business.

And I don't mean Jose Valentin's signing, either.

[MrBug708]

There is another rumor that has the ChiSox involved with them getting Vasquez and the Dodgers getting Garland, Marte (I think), and Konerko

[Bomber]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/263178p-225322c.html


The Big Unit is coming to the Yankees

After day-long negotiations at the highest level, the Yankees, Diamondbacks and Dodgers agreed in principle to the blockbuster trade that will put Randy Johnson in pinstripes, according to sources with knowledge of the situation.

The trade has Shawn Green, Brad Penny, Yhency Brazoban and prospect Brandon Weeden going from L.A. to Arizona; Javier Vazquez and two Yankee prospects (Dioner Navarro and Eric Duncan) going from the Bronx to the Dodgers; and the Big Unit along with L.A. lefthander Kaz Ishii coming to New York.

The deal most likely will be announced in a few days, with so many players involved. Penny told ESPN Radio last night that he is scheduled to take a physical for Arizona next week.

Both Green and Johnson had no-trade clauses but waived them yesterday as part of the final negotiations between the clubs.

[SackAttack]

There is another rumor that has the ChiSox involved with them getting Vasquez and the Dodgers getting Garland, Marte (I think), and Konerko

That's a start at redemption for THIS piece of shit trade, but Depo ain't nowhere near finished.

[jbmagic]

what a terrible trade for the dodgers...

i bet Kent is happy he came to the Dodgers now
he wanted top play for a playoff team, and it dont look like it will be...

[The_herd]

So, let's ask the question again. Who is left in the Yankees farm system?

Duncan was a minor league all-star last season and can hit. Navarro is the top rated player in their system and for some reason they've been dying to get rid of him. I don't think any team did very well in this trade. Maybe Arizona, but it's tough to say.

[jbmagic]

So, let's ask the question again. Who is left in the Yankees farm system?


Duncan was a minor league all-star last season and can hit. Navarro is the top rated player in their system and for some reason they've been dying to get rid of him. I don't think any team did very well in this trade. Maybe Arizona, but it's tough to say.


Yankees came out the best in this deal

[The_herd]

Yankees came out the best in this deal

Maybe, in the very short term. They have lost all flexiblity in trades, though. The only 2 prospects anyone was interested in are gone (and there weren't many interested in those 2) and now they had better hope they are in good shape in July, because there isn't any way they can ship prospects out to crappy teams to improve.

[Bomber]

So, let's ask the question again. Who is left in the Yankees farm system?

Duncan was a minor league all-star last season and can hit. Navarro is the top rated player in their system and for some reason they've been dying to get rid of him. I don't think any team did very well in this trade. Maybe Arizona, but it's tough to say.

As far as major league ready talent, Robinson Cano. I can post scouting reports from BA of the remaining Yankees' top 10 prospects if you want, Duncan was 1st and Navarro was 5th.

[kingfc22]

The Yankees don't need a farm system. All George has to do is waive his checkbook in front of FA's every year.

[Bomber]

Alright I don't care if you want it, I'm posting their 8 remaining players from this year's top 10 prospects:

2. ROBINSON CANO, 2b Age: 22 B-T: L-R Ht: 6-0 Wt.: 170
Signed: Dominican Republic, 2001 Signed by: Carlos Rios

Background: Many fans became acquainted with Cano when his name was tossed around in trade rumors as the Yankees unsuccessfully tried to acquire Randy Johnson at the July 31 deadline. A confident player, Cano plays as if he belongs in the majors. His father Jose pitched briefly in the big leagues.

Strengths: Cano’s arm is his best tool and rates as a 65 on the 20-80 scouting scale. More important, he can hit. He has good bat speed and a fluid swing, allowing him to catch up to good fastballs. His improving plate discipline helped his power numbers increase, as he set career highs in walks and slugging percentage in 2004.

Weaknesses: Cano hasn’t handled lefthanders well, with just seven extra-base hits in 130 at-bats against southpaws above Class A. He's a below-average runner for an infielder, and his lower half figures to get thicker as he gets older. However, he has solid infield actions and the Yankees refute reports that he has below-average range.

The Future: If Miguel Cairo leaves via free agency, Cano could be a platoon option in New York for 2005. More likely, he'll head back to Columbus for a full season in Triple-A.

2004 Club (Class) AVG OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Trenton (AA) .301 .356 .497 292 43 88 20 8 7 44 24 40 2
Columbus (AAA) .259 .316 .403 216 22 56 9 2 6 30 18 27 0

3. PHILIP HUGHES, rhp Age: 18 B-T: R-R Ht: 6-5 Wt: 220
Drafted: HS—Santa Ana, Calif., 2004 (1st round) Signed by: Jeff Patterson

Background: New York had Hughes ranked higher on its 2004 draft board than 23rd overall, but that's where it got him. The Angels strongly considered him at No. 12 before deciding to take top-rated pitcher Jered Weaver. After geing drafted, Hughes joked that he had been raised a Red Sox fan but was pleased to be with the Yankees nevertheless.

Strengths: His stuff, size and control have the Yankees comparing Hughes to Roger Clemens. He has similar velocity with a fastball that touches 95 and sits at 90-94 mph, and he generates it with an easy, fluid motion. His fastball also has late life up in the strike zone. Hughes changes a hitter’s sightline with a slider that at times has good bite and depth. He’s also shown good arm action on his changeup, and both his secondary offerings project as at least average pitches.

Weaknesses: Hughes was shut down more than a month after his pro debut with a sore elbow that turned out to be nothing more than tendinitis. He returned with two excellent outings in August before breaking his toe after kicking a door. He also threw well in the Yankees’ fall minicamp, dampening concerns about his health. Otherwise, he just needs innings and experience to refine his stuff.

The Future: The Yankees consider Hughes a high school power arm with the polish of a college pitcher. So if he’s healthy, he’ll move quickly. He’ll start 2005 at their new low Class A Charleston affiliate and could reach New York by 2007.

2004 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG
GCL Yankees (R) 0 0 0.00 3 3 0 0 5 4 0 0 8 .222

4. STEVEN WHITE, rhp Age: 23 B-T: R-R Ht: 6-5 Wt: 205
Drafted: Baylor, 2003 (4th round) Signed by: Steve Boros/Mark Newman

Background: White set a Baylor record with 28 career wins. A poor junior season and the selection of Scott Boras as his adviser caused him to drop to the 18th round in 2002. As a senior, he led the Bears to within one victory of the College World Series. He didn't turn pro until March 2004, and tragedy struck during his holdout when he discovered the body of his mother Brenda, who had died at home.

Strengths: White reported to the Yankees with a fresh arm. His fastball, which had reached the mid-90s early in his college career, bounced back to touch 95-96 late in the 2004 season, though he pitched more at 90-94 mph. He showed better control of the pitch the more he threw it. He showed more power and command with his curveball, which always had been inconsistent at Baylor. He rarely gets rattled.

Weaknesses: White pitches off his fastball nearly 80 percent of the time, and he lost some of the feel for his changeup in the process. He needs to refine it to combat lefthanders at higher levels. Unless his curveball develops into a consistent strikeout pitch, he's more of a middle-of-the-rotation starter rather than an ace.

The Future: White's development was an important step for the Yankees, who could use an innings-eater as soon as possible. He fits that profile, but needs at least a year to hone his secondary stuff. He'll start 2005 in Double-A.

2004 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG
Battle Creek (Low A) 5 2 2.65 9 9 2 0 58 36 4 26 56 .183
Tampa (Hi A) 5 2 2.52 11 11 1 0 54 48 4 19 36 .234

6. CHRISTIAN GARCIA, rhp Age: 19 B-T: R-R Ht: 6-4 Wt: 175
Drafted: HS—Miami, 2004 (3rd round) Signed by: Dan Radison

Background: The strong-armed Garcia committed to South Carolina as a catcher prior to his senior season at Gulliver Prep. Then his new high school coach, former University of Miami pitching coach Lazaro Collazo, put Garcia on the mound with electric results. Garcia helped Gulliver Prep win the state 3-A championship in a game played at the Yankees’ Legends Field in Tampa, then signed for $390,000 as a third-round pick.

Strengths: His combination of size, projection and pure arm strength gives Garcia a high ceiling. He has easy velocity on his fastball, working at 93-94 mph and topping out at 96. With more experience and refinement, he should throw even harder. His curveball, at times a true power hammer, could be a better pitch.

Weaknesses: Garcia is still raw on the mound. His changeup needs work and he must learn how to set up hitters and hold runners. He sometimes falls in love with his curve and doesn’t throw his live fastball enough.

The Future: Garcia could start 2005 in extended spring training before a June assignment to short-season Staten Island. A good spring would land him in low Class A.

2004 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG
Bowie (AA) 4 0 2.25 5 5 0 0 28 16 1 7 34 .160
GCL Yankees (R) 3 4 2.84 13 6 0 0 38 26 1 17 47 .188

7. MARCOS VECHIONACCI, inf Age: 18 B-T: B-R Ht: 6-2 Wt: 170
Signed: Venezuela, 2002 Signed by: Ricardo Finol

Background: Vechionacci has grown four inches since signing out of Venezuela as a 16-year-old. He's so mature at the plate that the Yankees promoted him from extended spring camp to Tampa as an emergency fill-in in May. Afterward, he starred in the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League.

Strengths: Vechionacci can hit. His advanced approach includes plate discipline, smooth swing mechanics and the ability to use the whole field. He shows developing power as well. His greatest improvement in 2004 was his willingness to stay back on breaking balls. Defensively, he has excellent tools with a plus arm, body control and natural infield actions.

Weaknesses: The Yankees need to determine where Vechionacci fits best on defense. He has played more at third base while also seeing time at shortstop and second base. How he fills out and whether he can maintain his average speed will determine if he can play at short.

The Future: A polished bat, good athletic ability and savvy could put Vechionacci on the fast track. He's likely to start 2005 in low Class A as a shortstop.

2004 Club (Class) AVG OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Tampa (Hi A) .250 .250 .250 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
GCL Yankees (R) .336 .392 .511 131 24 44 9 1 4 22 12 19 5
Staten Island (SS) .275 .383 .333 69 13 19 4 0 0 8 11 12 0

8. MELKY CABRERA, of Age: 20 B-T: B-L Ht: 5-11 Wt: 170
Signed: Dominican Republic, 2001 Signed by: Victor Mata/Carlos Rios

Background: Cabrera signed for $175,000 in 2001 and has quickly developed into one of the organization's better hitters. He was slated to appear in the Midwest League’s midseason all-star game before getting a promotion to high Class A, where he showed the best power of his career.

Strengths: Cabrera’s swing and hand-eye coordination make him the best hitter for average in the system. One club official compared his offensive game to Jose Vidro's. Cabrera has a quick stroke from both sides of the plate, with quick hands that allow him to catch up to quality fastballs. He also punishes breaking balls and lashes line drives from gap to gap. He has an above-average throwing arm.

Weaknesses: An average runner, Cabrera projects as no more than an average defender in center field. There's some thought that as he matures physically and slows down, he'll have to move to an outfield corner. His approach and swing are geared more toward line drives and contact, so he doesn't profile as well on a corner.

The Future: The Yankees have time to figure out where Cabrera fits. His advanced approach will enable him to begin 2005 in Double-A at age 20.

2004 Club (Class) AVG OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Battle Creek (Lo A) .333 .383 .462 171 35 57 16 3 0 16 15 23 7
Tampa (Hi A) .288 .341 .438 333 48 96 20 3 8 51 23 59 3

9. BRONSON SARDINHA, 3b/of Age: 21 B-T: L-R Ht: 6-1 Wt: 195
Drafted: HS—Honolulu, 2001 (1st round supplemental) Signed by: Gus Quattlebaum

Background: Sardinha is the youngest of three brothers in the minors (Dane plays for the Reds, Duke with the Rockies). Unlike Dane, an accomplished defensive catcher, Bronson has yet to find a home defensively. He has played shortstop as well as left and center field before trying third base in 2004. The results weren't encouraging, as he ranked third in the minors with 43 errors.

Strengths: Sardinha is a polished offensive player who uses a textbook swing to handle both lefthanded and righthanded pitchers. He shows the ability to make adjustments within at-bats and isn't afraid to work deep counts. He's an efficient basestealer and solid average runner.

Weaknesses: The Yankees blame Sardinha's high error totals on lapses in concentration, troubling for a player in his fourth year of pro ball. With Eric Duncan behind him and Alex Rodriguez ahead of him at third base, Sardinha likely will return to the outfield in 2005. He never has shown much power at the plate, and he tries to cheat on good fastballs in an attempt to hit homers.

The Future: Sardinha’s development hit a small speed bump in the Arizona Fall League when he broke a finger on his glove hand during fielding drills just before the season started. He'll return to Double-A in 2005.

2004 Club (Class) AVG OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
Tampa (Hi A) .315 .389 .403 248 37 78 12 2 2 33 29 39 9
Trenton (AA) .267 .356 .383 266 36 71 11 1 6 29 37 65 4

10. CHIEN-MING WANG, rhp Age: 25 B-T: R-R Ht: 6-3. Wt: 200
Signed: Taiwan, 2000 Signed by: John Cox/Gordon Blakeley

Background: Wang signed for $1.9 million out of Taiwan in 2000, and he's close to paying dividends after being deterred by shoulder surgery in 2001 and a shoulder strain in 2003. He shined for Taiwan in the 2004 Olympics, going 1-0, 1.98 in two starts.

Strengths: Wang has one of the best fastballs in the organization. His fastball velocity returned to its pre-injury level late in 2004, as he worked at 92-95 mph and touched 97. He proved he's healthy by logging a career-high 149 innings. His splitter and slider are solid-average pitches.

Weaknesses: While Wang's fastball has excellent velocity, it tends to get straight. He needs to use his changeup and splitter better against lefthanders, who tattooed him for a .307 average in 2004. Wang’s medical history isn’t encouraging, and he pulled a hamstring in the Triple-A International League playoffs, knocking him out of the organization’s fall minicamp.

The Future: Wang will get a chance to break into the big league rotation in 2005. He’s the Yankees' best option for a low-cost, young starter.

2004 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG
Trenton (AA) 6 5 4.05 18 18 0 0 109 112 6 26 90 .266
Columbus (AAA) 5 1 2.01 6 5 2 0 40 31 3 8 35 .215

Cano's current numbers from the Dominican Winter League:
http://www.estrellasdeoriente.com/estadisticas.htm

[daedalus]

This trade looks ridiculous to me. Even if he does spin Vazquez to the Sox afterward. Makes zero sense from the Dodgers' standpoint. Even WITH being able to shed Ishii's contract.While Wang's fastball has excellent velocity, it tends to get straight.Is it just me or does this seem to be a trend with Asian pitchers? Nomo's fastball is straight. If I remember right, Park's is as well.

[haji1]

Depo has to be freeing up money for Beltran. The trade involving the WS looks interesting. I think if we give up Weeden we should keep Yhancy, though. Jackson for sure would be part of the rotation if the trade goes through. Maye they are planning on bringing back Odalis? I can't imagine they think Dessens and Alvarez will be the 4th and 5th pitchers. It will be intersting to see how this all plays out, but I am skeptical.

[Bomber]

The rumors are the Dodgers will use the freed up space to pursue Drew and a pitcher.

[Buccaneer]

Terrible. Depodesta better have something fucking major up his sleeve, and I mean major in a GOOD way, none of this anal screwing business.

And I don't mean Jose Valentin's signing, either.
Pads fans are feeling the same way. All we (we?) have gotten is a questionable 5th starter. Big whoop.

[Bomber]

Is it just me or does this seem to be a trend with Asian pitchers? Nomo's fastball is straight. If I remember right, Park's is as well.

Wasn't this Irabu's problem as well?

[The_herd]

Wasn't this Irabu's problem as well?

No, he just sucked...

[Bomber]

No, he just sucked...

Well he sucked, but wasn't his problem a 95+ mph fastball that had no movement?

[SackAttack]

D'Backs get:

Brad Penny
Shawn Green
Brandon Weeden
Yhency Brazoban

Yankees get:

Kazuhisa Ishii
Randy Johnson

Dodgers get:

Javier Vazquez
Mike Koplove
Dioner Navarro
Eric Duncan



Updated to reflect someone who was left out (Brazoban), and two players who were added/clarified (Koplove/Weeden).

[haji1]

Any info on Weeden? If we can spin this into Garland and Kornerko and pick up JD Drew, I will be able to swallow this easier.

[SackAttack]

Weeden was the third piece, along with Brazoban and Weaver, in the Kevin Brown trade. I don't know any more than that about him.

[Swaggs]

I'd be bummed if I were a Dodger fan right now... Seeing Mulder dealt to the Cardinals.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

D'Backs get:

Brad Penny
Shawn Green
Brandon Weeden
Yhency Brazoban

Yankees get:

Kazuhisa Ishii
Randy Johnson

Dodgers get:

Javier Vazquez
Mike Koplove
Dioner Navarro
Eric Duncan
As a DBacks fan, I really like this deal. Arizona was in a tough spot in that they could only trade Randy to one team, and the entire league knew it. Still, they got two potential All-Stars (Green and Penny), a future closer (Brazoban) and the Yankees No. 1 pick in 2002 (Weeden). Plus, the AZ paper out here said the Yankees may be sending $4-$5 mil to the DBacks as well. If that wasn't enough, ESPN just reported that Green is considering reducing his salary for 2005 to help facilitate an extension.

All in all, I don't see how Arizona could have done any better in dealing the Unit.

[cougarfreak]

As a DBacks fan, I really like this deal. Arizona was in a tough spot in that they could only trade Randy to one team, and the entire league knew it. Still, they got two potential All-Stars (Green and Penny), a future closer (Brazoban) and the Yankees No. 1 pick in 2002 (Weeden). Plus, the AZ paper out here said the Yankees may be sending $4-$5 mil to the DBacks as well. If that wasn't enough, ESPN just reported that Green is considering reducing his salary for 2005 to help facilitate an extension.

All in all, I don't see how Arizona could have done any better in dealing the Unit.

I agree.......I think Arizona is making out like a bandit for being over a barrel.

[Arles]

According to ESPN, all three teams have submitted paperwork for the deal and it will be official pending the physicals and Green and Johnson waiving their no-trade:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1950729

From an Arizona standpoint, it appears that an extension for both Penny and Green could be announced shortly after the deal is completed. Both figure to be for about 3 additional seasons with Green potentially reducing his hefty $16 mil 2005 salary to facilitate the 3-year extension (at around $8 mil a season).

[jbmagic]

Dodgers release Alex Cora 2b

it looks like Gm is putting his own people in and taking out all the Dodgers players from the past GM that was here...

[digamma]

As a DBacks fan, I really like this deal. Arizona was in a tough spot in that they could only trade Randy to one team, and the entire league knew it. Still, they got two potential All-Stars (Green and Penny), a future closer (Brazoban) and the Yankees No. 1 pick in 2002 (Weeden). Plus, the AZ paper out here said the Yankees may be sending $4-$5 mil to the DBacks as well. If that wasn't enough, ESPN just reported that Green is considering reducing his salary for 2005 to help facilitate an extension.

All in all, I don't see how Arizona could have done any better in dealing the Unit.
ESPN is also reporting that the Dodgers are sending the Spanks cash to help pay Ishii's salary. I wonder if Depo just enjoys getting reamed.

[haji1]

ESPN radio now reporting that the Dodgers are pulling out the trade. Thank God!

[BigJohn&TheLions]

ESPN radio now reporting that the Dodgers are pulling out the trade. Thank God!

HAAAAAA HAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA HAAAAA!!!!! :D :D

[Arles]

Yeah, I certainly understand why LA is pulling out. As a DBacks fan, we were certainly getting the best from that deal. AP is now reporting that the Tigers are now putting more heat on signing both Drew and Derek Lowe (both were pursued by the Dodgers when this deal was on the table). I would also expect to see Arizona sign Jeremy Burnitz in the next few days as well. They supposedly had a deal on the table before this deal popped up.

[SackAttack]

Glad to see Depodesta isn't a total retard. A Yankees official claimed the other day that nobody would ever do business with the Dodgers again if they pulled out of the trade, but c'mon - I don't think there are too many GMs who would insist a trade partner allow themselves to get reamed if they're unsuccessful in lining up the replacement pieces that would let the trade proceed to begin with.

Still not sure why we let Cora go.

[Arles]

Glad to see Depodesta isn't a total retard. A Yankees official claimed the other day that nobody would ever do business with the Dodgers again if they pulled out of the trade, but c'mon - I don't think there are too many GMs who would insist a trade partner allow themselves to get reamed if they're unsuccessful in lining up the replacement pieces that would let the trade proceed to begin with.

Still not sure why we let Cora go.
Which begs the question why Depodesta even agreed in principle to this deal last week. Even he admitted as much on Sunday. I do think that the New York media will be heartbroken because the Yankees didn't get Johnson and blame DePodesta though.

Arizona has been steadfast that they will not trade Randy unless a great deal pops up. Given there is no way the Yankees can match Penny, Green, Brazoban and a prospect, I can't see any path for RJ to head to New York. But I don't think that will stop the New York media from speculating, trashing DePodesta and trying to push Arizona into another deal.

[SackAttack]

The key words are "in principle."

Meaning something along the lines of "We have some things we need to work out on this end, but if we can get them done, then yes, we agree to this trade."

Clearly, they didn't work out what they needed to.

[Arles]

The key words are "in principle."

Meaning something along the lines of "We have some things we need to work out on this end, but if we can get them done, then yes, we agree to this trade."

Clearly, they didn't work out what they needed to.
I agree. But what do you think the NY media will do when they learn Paul pulling out cost them Randy Johnson? :eek:

The circus that erupts from that may make this whole experience well worth it ;)

[SackAttack]

I agree. But what do you think the NY media will do when they learn Paul pulling out cost them Randy Johnson? :eek:

The circus that erupts from that may make this whole experience well worth it ;)

Who gives a shit what the NY media thinks? I agree that the resulting fallout may well be high comedy, but let's be realistic here. The NY media are distant cousins to Chicken Little. Any time the least significant FA chooses not to sign with the Yankees, it's Armageddon for them.

[Maple Leafs]

No doubt Yankee fans are outraged that a high-profile deal that everyone agreed to could possibly fall apart.

[SackAttack]

Zing!

Thoughts re: Cora. Perhaps DePo wants him back, but not at the $2.6m he'd command in arbitration?

[Arles]

Here's another angle on the story (from the LA Times):

"The uncertainty has caused so much consternation that Dodger owner Frank McCourt called Yankee President Randy Levine and Diamondback officials Monday to ease concerns that the Dodgers weren't going through with the deal."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-newdodgers21dec21,1,4530097.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

[SackAttack]

Yeah, that came in a couple hours before DePodesta confirmed that the trade was dead.

[MrBug708]

Why not just trade Green, Penny, and Brazoban for what the D-Backs were gonna trade? Johnson can play here a year then go to NY next year

[haji1]

Cuz Randy just does not want to go anywhere but NY. Why, I do not know.

I would still not mind seeing the Dodgers move Green, but I am relieved they got out of this. It just had no upside for us, other than maybe 3-4 years down the road. On top of that we already have some great prospects, I didn't see the need for more.

I wonder what did not work out? Did it not look like we would sign Drew? Was the proposed deal with the White Sox hitting a snag? I am interested how it fell apart at this point. I would still like to see us move Green, pick up Drew, Delgado and another pitcher somehow.

But as of this moment I am just breathing a sigh of relief.

[SackAttack]

But as of this moment I am just breathing a sigh of relief.

What he said.

[Crapshoot]

Crap crap Crap - I was hoping the Dodgers would do this. Oh well.

[PilotMan]

As a lifelong Dodger fan, and used to the steady make do with your team and build it up from the bottom mentality that the O'Malley's brought to the table I am frightend by the moves or lack of moves that have been made. Depo better have a good plan and be ready to land someone for this team. The Cora thing bothers me.

[SackAttack]

Newsday reported on its Web site Tuesday night that Vazquez did not want to play for the Dodgers and refused to travel to Los Angeles for a physical. The paper, citing a source involved in the discussions. cited that as the ``primary reason'' for the deal's collapse.

Doesn't look like it was LA's "fault" on this one after all. Wonder if that'll affect trade relations any.

[DaddyTorgo]

Of course not. You know the NY media will still spin it against the Dodgers. As a fan of baseball, I'm glad not to see this deal go down. I couldn't really understand how it made any sense for the Dodgers. As a Red Sox fan though, I'm dissapointed the Yanks are committed for 2-3 years to a(nother) 41 year old pitcher with a history of health problems coming off major surgery, and didn't choose to give up on their (how old is Vasquez?) young pitcher who could still turn out to be a stud.

[MrBug708]

I was kind of hoping that it was the Dodgers pulling out to dick over Arizona after the Randy Johnson trade last year fell apart and we ended up trading away Paul LoDuca

[Suicane75]

Vazquez is nuts, He's never gonna be the pitcher he was in Montreal while throwing in Yankee stadium.

[SackAttack]

As DaddyTorgo said, not a chance a little thing like actual fact will actually deter NY media.

NY media != trade relations.

[daedalus]

Doesn't look like it was LA's "fault" on this one after all. Wonder if that'll affect trade relations any.As DaddyTorgo said, not a chance a little thing like actual fact will actually deter NY media.

[Bomber]

From ESPN:
"Javy is one of the players in this potential trade who had absolutely no choice in the process," the pitcher's agent, Sam Levinson said. "Javy was available after the holidays for examination purposes."

"The Dodgers reneged on the deal that was agreed to last Friday, unequivocally and with no contingencies except for a window for contract extensions and physicals," Levine said. "For some reason, the Dodgers over the weekend started to backpedal. Why they would break their word is only something they can answer. It sure is disappointing, and we'll have to think long and hard before ever doing business with the Dodgers again."

[SackAttack]

The problem is, I think the t's had to be crossed and the i's dotted within 72 hours of the approval being given, and that includes physicals. If Javy wasn't willing to have his physical until after the holidays, that kinda puts a crimp in the process.

[stevew]

Nice to see that the Dodgers like to keep their word.

[SackAttack]

you're a Yankee fan, aren't you, stevew?

[Chief Rum]

Nice to see that the Dodgers like to keep their word.

Yeah, they aren't allowed to rethink taking it up the ass. :rolleyes:

Sorry, but you're going to have to find another foolish organization to take your worthless scraps from your piss poor farm system, as well as some of the awful contracts you have passed out like candy, to bring the Unit in.

CR

[stevew]

Yeah, they aren't allowed to rethink taking it up the ass. :rolleyes:

Sorry, but you're going to have to find another foolish organization to take your worthless scraps from your piss poor farm system, as well as some of the awful contracts you have passed out like candy, to bring the Unit in.

CR

The yankees arent my favorite team by any means. But you just dont sign off on a trade and then back out cause you are being perceived to be getting "ripped off." :rolleyes:

Lets say you and i agreed on a deal in RWBL, you post to confirm it, but my internet goes out immediately thereafter. Its out for a day or so, but when i go to the forum, there is a two page topic about how the Angels just ripped my team off. If I dont confirm the trade, you would find me to be dishonest. And I guarantee that you would write about 10-12 paragraphs about honor as well.

[Arles]

I think the problem here is that Arizona, LA and the Yanks all shook on the deal on Friday, pending each player passing the physical and the extensions. Then, over the weekend, Paul had cold feet and didn't want to go through with it. That would also explain why McCourt was calling both Arizona and NY on Monday to assure them that deal would go through. I think all parties had agreed on a deal.

It is a bit of a bad precedent to set. Still, I don't think it's as dire as the Yanks brass seem to make it out to be. As far as I can tell, no one from Arizona has been critical to DePodesta.

Another interesting sidebit is that Green is now really pushing Paul to trade him to Arizona. Supposedly, both sides had an extension ready pending the OK from the league and Green does not want to have a lame duck season in LA. If LA does not move Green to Arizona, it could get a little ugly out there. Here's a quote from ESPN:

"A baseball source told ESPN's Karl Ravech Tuesday night that Green has no desire to finish his career with the Dodgers and that the outfielder does not plan to re-sign with Los Angeles when his contract expires after the 2005 season.

According to the source, Green appeared ready to waive his no-trade clause to report to the Diamondbacks as part of the Johnson deal. And now that the deal has fallen apart, the Dodgers and Diamondbacks have already begun discussions on a stand-alone trade to send Green to Arizona. Details of the exact components of the trade are not yet known."

My guess is the Dodgers will now be forced to send Green and cash ($4-$5 mil) to Arizona for a prospect (Robby Hammock or Alex Cintron in all likelihood). Green would then reduce his 05 salary to around $12 mil and sign a two year extension for about $9 mil a season. Then, the DBacks could have both Green and Johnson for 2005 - which would be the best of all worlds for Arizona.

[Bomber]

The Dodgers fucked this one up so bad its hilarious. They're going to have to give the DBacks more than $5 million with Green, the guy sucks. I love how the Dodgers GM tried to hint that Vazquez was hurt to try and fuck the Yankees over more by reducing his value. Completely unprofessional.

[Bomber]

The problem is, I think the t's had to be crossed and the i's dotted within 72 hours of the approval being given, and that includes physicals. If Javy wasn't willing to have his physical until after the holidays, that kinda puts a crimp in the process.

That's not true. It was a 72 hour window to get the contract extensions worked out. They could have waited until after Christmas to give Javy a physical.

[Bomber]

Sorry, but you're going to have to find another foolish organization to take your worthless scraps from your piss poor farm system, as well as some of the awful contracts you have passed out like candy, to bring the Unit in.

CR

How many times do I have to explain to you, that you weren't getting scraps? Go to any Yankees minor league board and they're crying tears of joy that this deal fell apart. Its not the minor leaguers that had the Dodgers getting raped, it was giving Ishii and cash to pay for him, while taking on Javy. Any GM in his right mind would have asked for cash from the Yankees to pay for part of Javy's contract, but after the trades he made last year its obvious this guy has no business being a Major League GM.

[ISiddiqui]

after the trades he made last year its obvious this guy has no business being a Major League GM.

Yeah, that Steve Finley deal really sucked :p.

And was it just me, or did they win the NL West for the first time in a while?

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I'm just disapointed in one thing... That this was not a headline anywhere:

DODGERS PULL OUT, SCREW YANKEES!!!

[Danny]

but after the trades he made last year its obvious this guy has no business being a Major League GM.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously, what bad trades are these? He picked up Jayson Werth for nothing. He picked up Bradley for a prospect. He picked up Finley for three mediocre prospects. The Florida trade didn't work out great due to Penny's injury, but it did open up a spot for Brazoban who was better than Mota over the second half of the season. Plus, Loduca, as normal, was much worse in the second half of the season.

And as a whole, the Dodgers win their 1st playoff game in 16 years. You're right, he should quit now, he should have been able to win the world series last year.

[Arles]

If he signs Drew and can find a way to keep Green, LA should be OK from an offensive standpoint. The problem remains that pitching staff which is very suspect after Weaver and Penny.

[MrBug708]

I dont think many people on here really read too much into what Bomber says about the Yankee's. They have a crap system for the most part, otherwise, the D-Backs would trade Johnson for prospects. I mean, if Green is such crap, why do they want Green over the Yankee's prospects?

[rlfreeze]

I think Green is batting something like .314 over at Arizona. In 44 at-bats, he has 11 HR's. That would appeal to me as a D-Back GM.

[Arles]

If Arizona could get Green from LA (plus $4-$5 million), I would take it. Given what's available and the fact they wouldn't have to part with much, getting Green in a contract season for around $10 mil isn't all that bad an option.

[Bomber]

I dont think many people on here really read too much into what Bomber says about the Yankee's. They have a crap system for the most part, otherwise, the D-Backs would trade Johnson for prospects. I mean, if Green is such crap, why do they want Green over the Yankee's prospects?

Well considering what the DBacks we're able to get for Curt Schilling I think its safe to say they don't know jack about prospects. Plus its less about taking the Yankees' prospects and more about this:

"The D-Backs have also known from the beginning of discussions with the Yankees that Vazquez would demand a trade if he was shipped to Arizona since he fired incoming D-Backs CEO Jeff Moorad as his agent a few years ago. As a player in the middle of a multi-year deal, Vazquez would have the right to force a trade after one season if he were dealt away from the Bronx."

Probably reason number 1 why it was a bad idea to hire a former agent as your CEO.

[oykib]

I dont think many people on here really read too much into what Bomber says about the Yankee's. They have a crap system for the most part, otherwise, the D-Backs would trade Johnson for prospects. I mean, if Green is such crap, why do they want Green over the Yankee's prospects?

The problem with the Yanks' system isn't that they have no players. They always have good prospects because they have such a big (and good) international (particularly Latin American) scouting department. The problem is that with all the deals that they've made over the years, they have no close to major league-ready talent. All their best prospects are A ball and AA guys. There's no one who could help even a bad team in 2005.

[Arles]

Well considering what the DBacks we're able to get for Curt Schilling I think its safe to say they don't know jack about prospects.
To be fair, Moorad was not with the team during that deal. In fact, that deal is one of the reasons Kendrick and Moorad are now running the team.

Plus its less about taking the Yankees' prospects and more about this:

"The D-Backs have also known from the beginning of discussions with the Yankees that Vazquez would demand a trade if he was shipped to Arizona since he fired incoming D-Backs CEO Jeff Moorad as his agent a few years ago. As a player in the middle of a multi-year deal, Vazquez would have the right to force a trade after one season if he were dealt away from the Bronx."

Probably reason number 1 why it was a bad idea to hire a former agent as your CEO.
Actually, Vazquez said the same about LA. It's more about the fact that Vazquez does not want to leave the east coast and has stated he would request a trade from anywhere west of Chicago after one season. Plus, Moorad got him the Kings Ransom from the Yankees (4-years $45 million). So I doubt he's all that upset at him.

[Arles]

Here's another wrinkle on this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1952073

"PHOENIX -- The Arizona Diamondbacks are not looking for a new partner to create a three-team trade that would send Randy Johnson to the New York Yankees and may keep the Big Unit for 2005.

Arizona managing partner Ken Kendrick said Wednesday he planned to put aside Johnson talks until after Christmas.

"We're all in a holiday mode starting today, basically," Kendrick said. "You never know what to expect in the baseball world, but I think right now our focus is to get to our families and let everybody have a little down time."

------
They just had a guy on local radio in Phoenix who said he isn't all that optimistic that Randy will go to New York. The DBacks are taking a very strict stance on what they will trade Johnson for and supposedly Johnson is actually entertaining the idea of signing an extension and finishing his career with Arizona.

This guy said that there was a good chance that, after the holidays, Kendrick would claim that Arizona has no intentions of trading Johnson and that he is off the market going into 2005 to reduce the distractions. Now, this could all be posturing but two different media sources here in Phoenix have stated that Kendrick seems pretty intent keeping Johnson.

Should be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[ISiddiqui]

Man, it would be GREAT if the Yankees get caught holding the bag again on Randy ;).

[daedalus]

That's not true. It was a 72 hour window to get the contract extensions worked out. They could have waited until after Christmas to give Javy a physical.Why should the team giving up talent to take on Vazquez's contract be required to wait until after the holiday to do a physical that's within their rights? Though I thought the trade worked out best for Arizona, this trade still very much benefits the Yankees and it's their responsibility to get their player to get his physical done.How many times do I have to explain to you, that you weren't getting scraps? Go to any Yankees minor league board and they're crying tears of joy that this deal fell apart. Its not the minor leaguers that had the Dodgers getting raped, it was giving Ishii and cash to pay for him, while taking on Javy. Any GM in his right mind would have asked for cash from the Yankees to pay for part of Javy's contract, but after the trades he made last year its obvious this guy has no business being a Major League GM.One, Chief is an Angels fan and I doubt he really cares terribly much if the Dodgers screwed the proverbial pooched on a trade or if they just traded Larry Andersen to the Red Sox for a AA 3B. Two, you're using Yankees minor league message boards as your evidence to the quality of Yankees prospects?!? Now, I don't know much about the other kid but, based on what I've read, Duncan is genuinely talented but, PUH-leeze find some slightly more credible sources to back up your argument. Three, as SackAttack can attest, I have disliked many of DePodesta's move but even I would go quite as far as him having "no business being a Major League GM". Which trades are you using as the basis of this particular statement?

[rexallllsc]

I love how the Dodgers GM tried to hint that Vazquez was hurt to try and fuck the Yankees over more by reducing his value. Completely unprofessional.

Isn't that what you do when you're trading for players?

[sterlingice]

I was kind of hoping that it was the Dodgers pulling out to dick over Arizona after the Randy Johnson trade last year fell apart and we ended up trading away Paul LoDuca
I had that in the back of my mind as well. Actually, I still do and I think it's kindof funny :p

Who's to say how far along the deal was- we'll never know since everyone's playing the media in a big trade like this. But since no one outside of Yankee fans seem pissed the Dodgers pulled out, I think this is hillarious- even moreso if it's just payback for last year. That said, it's pretty unlikely he's just jerking people around for revenge as that'll make you no friends when you go to trade next year.

SI

[Bomber]

Two, you're using Yankees minor league message boards as your evidence to the quality of Yankees prospects?!? Now, I don't know much about the other kid but, based on what I've read, Duncan is genuinely talented but, PUH-leeze find some slightly more credible sources to back up your argument.

I've already posted scouting reports for both Navarro and Duncan from Baseball America.

[Bomber]

Actually, Vazquez said the same about LA. It's more about the fact that Vazquez does not want to leave the east coast and has stated he would request a trade from anywhere west of Chicago after one season. Plus, Moorad got him the Kings Ransom from the Yankees (4-years $45 million). So I doubt he's all that upset at him.

I haven't heard him say he would have demanded a trade from LA, but that's a moot point. The guy was making it seem like the sole reason that the DBacks wouldn't trade directly with the Yankees was they didn't like their prospects, when in reality they just aren't interested in the very real possibility of ending up with just one year of Javy. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the DBacks made the trade anyway, I mean a year of Richie Sexson is worth Schilling after all.

[Arles]

I haven't heard him say he would have demanded a trade from LA, but that's a moot point. The guy was making it seem like the sole reason that the DBacks wouldn't trade directly with the Yankees was they didn't like their prospects, when in reality they just aren't interested in the very real possibility of ending up with just one year of Javy.
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if the DBacks made the trade anyway, I mean a year of Richie Sexson is worth Schilling after all.
Again, that was different ownership. Moorad and Kendrick have played this situation 100 times better than the Schilling/Sexson debacle last offseason. The main reason for this is they structured the team to actually be able to afford Johnson, so there's really no need to trade him unless you get a great deal.

[Bomber]

A couple of interesting things from Ken Rosenthal's recent article on the Dodgers offseason:

At midnight ET Monday, the Dodgers demanded a resolution by 5 p.m. Wednesday, according to an official with one of the other clubs. It was unrealistic for the Dodgers to expect that all of the physical examinations and contract extensions could be completed in such a narrow time frame.

Besides, Vazquez lacked a no-trade clause, and had no say in the matter. Players frequently get upset when traded, and just as frequently get over it. By now, Vazquez surely has figured out that he will be dealt for Johnson. He owns a home in Jupiter, Fla., not far from the Dodgers' spring-training facility in Vero Beach. What was he going to do, break his contract?

In theory, Vazquez could exercise his right to demand a trade at the end of the season if he were traded in the middle of a multi-year deal. In reality, such a demand would amount to an empty threat. If Vazquez were not traded by March 15, he would be required to either rescind his demand or opt for free agency. No way he would walk away from a guaranteed $24 million over his final two seasons at that late date.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3271326

[daedalus]

I've already posted scouting reports for both Navarro and Duncan from Baseball America.I'm aware of that. I also have the issue of BA with Top 10 Minor League Prospects from each league which spoke quite highly of Duncan (not much about Navarro in that issue, however). I was referring directly to your comment, "Go to any Yankees minor league board and they're crying tears of joy that this deal fell apart".

I still consider it the Yankees' responsibility to get their player(s) to report to physical examination. I still see why the Dodgers should be required to take on 30M+ of contracts without being allowed to get a full physical until a later date.

[PilotMan]

And Brien Taylor is where now?

[sterlingice]

And Brien Taylor is where now?
http://www.netwalk.com/%7Etruegger/ftrh/Brad2.jpg

SI