What does low-limit poker mean to you?

[JonInMiddleGA]

No, I'm not talking about how important it is in your life.

I mean, what limit qualifies, in your mind, as "low". Not any official definition, not what do you think most people would consider "low", not anything to put people on the spot about their poker spending, I'm just curious what the phrase means to people around here (which are pretty much the only online poker players I know).

There's a thread here today that used the phrase "low-limit" and "$1/$2" in the same sentence, and I actually had to read it twice to make sure what it said because that isn't what I associate with "low". It might be to the rest of the world, but it isn't to me, I'm just not that serious a player.

Since I asked, I'll answer first (post order bug notwithstanding).

For me, low limit is .01/.02 or .02/.04, reaching up to .05/.10. Anything past that, and I feel like I could end up spending more than I want to or playing far less than I want to.

Yes, I know I spent more on dinner last night at Ruby Tuesday's than I've spent on nearly 2 months worth of online poker. And I know I've enjoyed the poker infinitely more than a mediocre steak & a c.f. of a restaurant experience ... but I'd be looking for a gambling hotline number if I dropped $50 in one night at PokerStars. I just can't see me spending that amount on one night of online cards.

Okay, that said -- FTR, I'm not looking to rip on anybody's spending habits, we all prioritize our recreation spending differently, that's cool by me. I guess I'm just curious if I'm the only cheap bastard playing cards around here or if I'm part of the majority.

[QuikSand]

I've heard the term "micro-limits" applied to everything in the online milieu that's basically too small to be feasible anywhere else -- stuff lmeasured in cents rather than dollars. No matter what you "rake" you can't pay a salary based on that, so it only works online (and is therefore a fairly new invention).

[JonInMiddleGA]

For many people (like myself), as your game improves, and as you notice how many other players are so bad, the temptation to step up in limit and take down bigger pots will creep in. Obviously, your mileage may vary.

Heck, I think I'm still pretty darned bad, maybe still really bad, but I've experienced that myself already, it's how I got from .02/.04 to .05/.10,
and have played .25/.50 a little bit. I can see where I might be tempted to play a higher buy-in tourney down the line somewhere (higher for me = $10 - $30) but I think the "money involved = work-type stress" thing will probably keep me in the nether regions of the limits for most of my career. It's the same thing that makes me a .25 video poker player in LV, at that level I can have an absolute blast, but anything more than the occasional .50 dabble is too stressful.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If you want to to get into your personal judgment, I might start with your choice of restaurants, rather than your poker decisions.

It was that or an Applebee's that's mediocre on its best day.

[QuikSand]

Yes, I know I spent more on dinner last night at Ruby Tuesday's than I've spent on nearly 2 months worth of online poker. And I know I've enjoyed the poker infinitely more than a mediocre steak & a c.f. of a restaurant experience ...

If you want to to get into your personal judgment, I might start with your choice of restaurants, rather than your poker decisions.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm with you, Jon. I have started playing $.50/$1 almost exclusively now, but I will probably drop back way down soon, just so I'm not as concerned about the money. If I could find a brick-and-mortar casino around here that had $1/$2 or $2/$4, I would consider that low limit, but online, I can't really consider that as low limit for me, because I'm always playing 4 tables at once. If I start having downswings on all four tables, I'm meat.

For many people (like myself), as your game improves, and as you notice how many other players are so bad, the temptation to step up in limit and take down bigger pots will creep in. Obviously, your mileage may vary.

[Subby]

Jon - each person has his own definition of what "low stakes" are. There are probably a number of professionals that consider 30/60 low stakes.

I think the conventional definition of low limit games includes $1/2 up to $3/6 - although I have seen as high as $6/12 referred to as such.

As far as your other comments are concerned, I think comfort level is really important. You want to be consistently beating your current game before you move up levels and you should have a stake of 200xBB of the level to which you want to move. This means $200 for $.50/1 and so on.

I would be careful about the microlimits - the play there just breeds bad habits. Unless you are blissfully happy where you are, it would probably be wise to start plotting you rmove up in limits.

[RPI-Fan]

...

As far as your other comments are concerned, I think comfort level is really important. You want to be consistently beating your current game before you move up levels and you should have a stake of 200xBB of the level to which you want to move. This means $200 for $.50/1 and so on.

...

I know this is diverting the discussion a bit, but what my friend (who reads all kinds of poker books, etc. and is generally extremely smart) told me a 300BB BR gives you 95% certainty of avoiding going bankrupt if you're a winning (1+BB/100) player.

Just curious where you saw that 200BB number, and how comfortable you are with it.

[Subby]

I know this is diverting the discussion a bit, but what my friend (who reads all kinds of poker books, etc. and is generally extremely smart) told me a 300BB BR gives you 95% certainty of avoiding going bankrupt if you're a winning (1+BB/100) player.

Just curious where you saw that 200BB number, and how comfortable you are with it. Mali quoted it to me a while back and I think he was quoting Doyle Brunson...

I am actually comfortable with 100xBB, but I think 200xBB gives you enough wiggle room with respect to risk of ruin if you are playing decent poker.

[jbmagic]

I'm with you, Jon. I have started playing $.50/$1 almost exclusively now, but I will probably drop back way down soon, just so I'm not as concerned about the money. If I could find a brick-and-mortar casino around here that had $1/$2 or $2/$4, I would consider that low limit, but online, I can't really consider that as low limit for me, because I'm always playing 4 tables at once. If I start having downswings on all four tables, I'm meat.

For many people (like myself), as your game improves, and as you notice how many other players are so bad, the temptation to step up in limit and take down bigger pots will creep in. Obviously, your mileage may vary.


can you make money with low limit like .50/$1?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You can make a decent bankroll out of not much money if you perservere. I hit a hand jackpot at Ultimate Bet for $2.50 on a play table. 6 months later, I now play at the .25/.50 limit hold em table and have a bankroll around $200. Granted, I am not in it to make a living or anything like that, but with patience and good play, you can get a bankroll. Other good thing about working up the bankroll is that you learn how to deal with bad players. There is always the pitfall that some fall into of playing as badly as the bad players, but if you can avoid it, you can learn a lot about poker. Just consider it 'paying your dues' much like the minor leagues in baseball. It's a fun hobby as long as you keep everything in perspective.

FWIW.....if your rationale for playing 1/2 and up online is that 'you can't make money on any lower level that that', you are probably not prepared to play 1/2 or higher yet. Take your time and learn the game. It will pay off in the long run. Take this from the perspective of someone who is doing it for fun first and profit second. It's the only way to approach poker.

[jbmagic]

on low limit like .50/$1 or lower...wont most people play loose and bet and raise all the way to the river because the amount of money is so low?

or is it best to play good hands only and play it like your playing high limit poker..more tight?

[Subby]

on low limit like .50/$1 or lower...wont most people play loose and bet and raise all the way to the river because the amount of money is so low?

or is it best to play good hands only and play it like your playing high limit poker..more tight?It all depends on position, how many BB are already in the pot, etc.

At micro-limits just remember - don't bluff and don't advertise - no one is paying attention.

Also - just because everyone else is playing crap doesn't mean you should be doing that as well. Start with good hands and play aggressively - raise or fold, call less. And for the love of god - DO NOT slowplay.

[Radii]

I know this is diverting the discussion a bit, but what my friend (who reads all kinds of poker books, etc. and is generally extremely smart) told me a 300BB BR gives you 95% certainty of avoiding going bankrupt if you're a winning (1+BB/100) player.

Just curious where you saw that 200BB number, and how comfortable you are with it.


I seem to remember some *very* detailed mathematical analysis on bankroll requirements and risk of ruin on 2+2. I think your numbers on 300BB are assuming you stay at the same limit the entire time(start w/ $1800 for 3/6 and stay at 3/6 no matter what).

There was some other work done that started with 150 or 200BB and gave you points to adjust limits(if you lose xBB drop from 3/6 to 2/4 until you get back up to xBB) which had a very low risk of ruin but involved potentially jumping around from one limit to another quickly.


I personally prefer 3 or 4-tabling a lower limit game... if I have $3000, I am happier playing 4 2/4 or 3/6 tables than playing 1 5/10 table. However, I have learned(as my poker dynasty has obviously shown for those that follow it) that I just do not have the patience to do that over the long term.

I haven't played any poker since my last dynasty post, we'll see how my game is after a signifigant(for me) break since I probably won't play any until after New Years w/ the move and all.


And, to answer Jon's original question, online I consider 3/6 and below low limit. I understand in casino's 6/12 is often considered low limit and by some 10/20 may be?

The important thing is to simply play what you're comfortable with, and don't play with money you can't afford to lose or don't want to live without.