WSOP Main Event 2005 (Spoilers)

[larrymcg421]

Created this thread just in case. Post any updates on the WSOP here.

[rkmsuf]

so what I have to change the title of the other one to "non spoilers".

[larrymcg421]

You might want to. People see a thread like that and will assume they can post spoilers. If you don't want spoilers in there, you might want to say so in the title.

[Subby]

"I've never had this happen to me before in my life," is how Jennifer Harman's 2005 WSOP championship starts. It begins with her picking up Q-Q. The board comes Qd-Jd-10c-10d-7d, a full house for Harman, but unfortunately for her, her opponent flips over 8d-9d. A runner-runner straight flush puts one of the field's toughest players on the ropes.

[vtbub]

"I've never had this happen to me before in my life," is how Jennifer Harman's 2005 WSOP championship starts. It begins with her picking up Q-Q. The board comes Qd-Jd-10c-10d-7d, a full house for Harman, but unfortunately for her, her opponent flips over 8d-9d. A runner-runner straight flush puts one of the field's toughest players on the ropes.


Welcome to my world.

[Subby]

I think it is hilarious that has never happened to her before.

Thunder Keller just went AK v AK and lost when the other guy made his flush on the river. He is down to 400 chips :)

HE HAS LESS CHIPS THAN SHANNON ELIZABETH!

[cthomer5000]

can anyone post the sites they're using to follow along this year?

[Suicane75]

I think it is hilarious that has never happened to her before.

Thunder Keller just went AK v AK and lost when the other guy made his flush on the river. He is down to 400 chips :)

HE HAS LESS CHIPS THAN SHANNON ELIZABETH!
Pics Plz, Kthnx.

[larrymcg421]

Why would someone go all in with AK this early on against someone with a similar chip stack?

[Subby]

Pics Plz, Kthnx.http://www.gutshot.com/wsop/wsop2005dev/LIVE/turd.jpg

[TredWel]

Why would someone go all in with AK this early on against someone with a similar chip stack?
Maybe they were both shortstacked. Or maybe the other AK was a donkey who had a history of overbetting PF with nothing. It's not a usual play, but there are circumstances in which it can be a good play.

[Subby]

Why would someone go all in with AK this early on against someone with a similar chip stack?
His move sounds reasonable with the action as described:

Thomas "Thunder" Keller just took a huge blow to his stack. Keller and his opponent both held A-K. Both players made trip kings when the board brought 2 kings, but by the river there were also 3 spades on board. Keller's opponent had As-Ks. Keller is now down to a meager $400 in chips.

[larrymcg421]

Jennifer Harman is out and Scotty Nguyen is on the ropes with only $2.1k

[Subby]

Keller and Harman now officially out.

[larrymcg421]

His move sounds reasonable with the action as described:

Thomas "Thunder" Keller just took a huge blow to his stack. Keller and his opponent both held A-K. Both players made trip kings when the board brought 2 kings, but by the river there were also 3 spades on board. Keller's opponent had As-Ks. Keller is now down to a meager $400 in chips.
Yeah that makes sense now. That's brutal, but not quite as brutal as Harman's defeat.

[Suicane75]

http://www.gutshot.com/wsop/wsop2005dev/LIVE/turd.jpg Wiseass. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Subby]

can anyone post the sites they're using to follow along this year?
cardplayer.com
gutshot.com
pokerpages.com
twoplustwo.com - various forums - you have to dig, but a lot of members are playing and supposedly calling in live updates

[larrymcg421]

This is the site I'm using: http://www.pokertrails.com

[jbmagic]

how much was the entry fee?

[Subby]

10 large

[Desnudo]

Is that $10,000, Vanilla?

[Subby]

word

[Desnudo]

proper

[larrymcg421]

Raymer is "shortstacked and running bad."

Jesus pulled another miracle. He had pocket aces, and someone else hit two pair. Jesus rivered a board pair to survive and now has $15k.

[MJ4H]

http://www.pokervoice.com/pics/muppet.jpg

[timmynausea]

Apparently Elmo is doing well so far. Mr. Noodle is shortstacked.

[larrymcg421]

Raymer has been on quite a run at the feature table. He was down to $3,500 after getting his trips beat by a rivered full house. Now he's up to $43,000.

[Lathum]

shannon elizabeth is up to 18k. She will be all over ESPN. Tilly is out. I wanna see Erin Ness naked

[larrymcg421]

Lathum, where are you getting your info from?

[digamma]

Lathum, where are you getting your info from?
It looks like it's coming from the cardplayer live updates blog.

[digamma]

"I've never had this happen to me before in my life," is how Jennifer Harman's 2005 WSOP championship starts. It begins with her picking up Q-Q. The board comes Qd-Jd-10c-10d-7d, a full house for Harman, but unfortunately for her, her opponent flips over 8d-9d. A runner-runner straight flush puts one of the field's toughest players on the ropes.
Ummm....the guy had the straight flush on the turn. And a straight on the flop for that matter.

[larrymcg421]

I wonder how much betting was done preflop. Should that guy have even been in that hand with 8d-9d? I guess we'll see in November.

[cthomer5000]

i don't believe i've read a peep about Dan Harrington... any word on him?

edit: Ah, i now see that "Day One" is being stretched over three days, so i imagine he's not playing today.

[MJ4H]

Remember that only a third of the players play at all today.

[cthomer5000]

Remember that only a third of the players play at all today.
I knew it was two last year, but for some reason i was working under the assumption that they'd relocated to somewhere that could handle everyone on day one. Clearly, that was not the case. Amazing that day one is now a three day ordeal.

[Lathum]

pokerpages.com

[SirFozzie]

dayum. Raymer on a mega rush. from 3.5K to 43K, all at the feature table.

Guess we're going to see a lot of him on the ME coverage :D

[Lathum]

not sure how accurate these are


Crandall Addington 5k
Daniel Alaei 25k
Josh Arieh 15k
Bruce Atkinson 5k
Eli Balas 5k
Tomer Benvenisti 35k
Chris Bigler 10k
Tony Bloom 5k
Ross Boatman 5k
Eric Brenes 15k
Huberto Brenes 5k
Mark Burtman 10k
Mike Caro 10k
Johnny Chan 5k
Eskimo Clark 35k
Artie Cobb 20k
Tony Cousineau 5k
Paul Darden 10k
John Duthie 20k
Shannon Elizabeth 20k
Barbara Enright 10k
Chris Ferguson 15k
Scott Fischman 20k
Layne Flack 30k
Ted Forrest 5k
Petri Friedman 25k
Clonie Gowen 15k
Abe Gray 5k
David Grey 10k
Chris Grigorian 45k
Barry Greenstein 5k
Russ Hamilton 5k
Gus Hansen 5k
Mark Hanna 10k
Dan Heimiller 20k
Jay Heimowitz 15k
Frank Henderson 25k
Chuck Hinchcliffe 30k
Steve Hohn 20k
Randy Holland 30k
Warren Karp 35k
Matt Keikoan 40k
Kathy Kolberg 10k
Meng La 30k
Ted Lawson 10k
Doug Lee 35k
Toto Leonidas 10k
Tuna Lund 5k
Tom McCormick 10k
Carl McKelvey 25k
Davood Mehrmand 5k
Isabelle Mercier 5k
Roberto Mercer 5k
Eric Mizrachi 20k
Mark Napolitano 20k
Billy O'Connor 15k
Reza Payvar 15k
Pascal Perrault 35k
Greg Raymer 50k
Jose Rosenkrantz 25k
Dave Scharf 35k
Erik Seidel 15k
Mike Sexton 10k
Jeff Shulman 10k
Jan Sjarvik 10k
Johan Storakers 15k
Richard Tatalovich 15k
Mark Tenner 20k
Gene Todd 10k
Marco Traniello 10k
Odette Trembley 5k
Oliver Tse 5k
Gregg Turk 10k
David Ulliott 5k
Marsha Waggoner 10k
Lee Watkinson 75k
Mike Wattel 15k
Bruce Yamron 15k
Jess Yawitz 50k
Don Zewin 10k

[Comey]

Cardplayer has Raymer with 58K and in second.

[larrymcg421]

This is why you should've stayed awake for math class. Check out this hand:

Gus Hansen just caught a break, in a way. He opens for 1,125 in first position again and the 2nd to act raises I believe another 3k. It folds to Hansen and he moves in--a raise of maybe 2.5k. Getting well over 5-1 on his call, 2nd position mucks, showing a single jack. Hmmmmmm...

[timmynausea]

Johnny Chan is out.

[timmynausea]

Josh Arieh is out. Everyone was really sad to see him go.

[larrymcg421]

I'm weeping.

[timmynausea]

Chris Ferguson is out.

[hoopsguy]

Josh Arieh is out. Everyone was really sad to see him go.

Since I had him as my ME winner, I truly was sad to see him go. Lots of carnage for our pool on first day.

Chan, Arieh, Ferguson, Greenstein, Seidel, Fischman, Forrest, H. Brenes, Devilfish, Harman are the names that I see out from our pool.

Other notables I hadn't seen listed in this thread that are out include David Grey, Mike Sexton, Harry Demetriou, Unabomber, Freddy Deeb, Carlos Mortenson, and Jennifer Tilly.

[SirFozzie]

I think Kelleher is out too which hurts me.

[Subby]

Going today:

Daniel Negreanu - ESPN Featured Table
Sam Farha - ESPN Featured Table
Evelyn Ng - Table 170 - Seat 9
David Chiu - Table 176 - Seat 2
Karina Jett - Table 154 - Seat 2
Garry Bush - Table 170 - Seat 7
Mimi Tran - Table 186 - Seat 1
Todd Brunson - Table 175 - Seat 3
Erin Ness - Table 59 - Seat 9
Erick Lindgren - Table 47 - Seat 7
Joe Beevers - Table 47 - Seat 6
Peter Costa - Table 45 - Seat 3
Al Krux - Table 34 - Seat 6
Barney Boatman - Table 41 - Seat 9
Vinnie Vinh - Table 50 - Seat 3
Alan Goehring - Table 50 - Seat 4
David "The Dragon" Pham - Table 34 - Seat 2
Allyn Jaffrey Shulman - Table 35 - Seat 8
Bradley Berman - Table 35 - Seat 7
Minh Ly - Table 25 - Seat 2
David Levi - Table 36 Seat 6
Antonio Esfandiari - Table 37 - Seat 6
Michael "The Grinder" Mizrachi - Table 29 - Seat 1
Michael Gracz - Table 8 - Seat 8
Dutch Boyd - Table 16 - Seat 6
Adam Schoenfeld - Table 7 - Seat 2
Rob Hollink - Table 6 - Seat 7
Maureen Feduniak - Table 5 - Seat 2
Chris Moneymaker - Table 15 - Seat 8
Phil Gordon - Table 3 - Seat 7
Paul Wolfe - Table 83
Chris Mcyntire - Table 90 - Seat 1
Barry Shulman - Table 82
Dennis Ethier - Table 80
Jon Bonetti - Table 88
Paul Sexton - Table 90
Cecilia Mortensen - Table 99
Tony "TNT" Nasr - Table 97
Melissa Hayden - Table 106
Allen Cunningham - Table 107
Ayaz Mahmood - Table 68
Juha Helppi - Table 63
Mimi Rogers - Table 60
Rafe Furst - Table 35
Chip Reese - Table 73
Perry Friedman - Table 75
Young Phan - Table 130 - Seat 1
Tobey Maguire - Table 130 - Seat 7
Cyndy Violette - Table 143 - Seat 3
John Hennigan - Table 119 - Seat 7
Hasan Habib - Table 133 - Seat 7
Joe Awada - Table 147 - Seat 4
David Cossio - Table 72 - Seat 4
David Williams - Table 107
Alex Prendes - Table 179
Blair Rodman - Table 156
Amir Vahedi - Table 180
Men "The Master" Nguyen - Table 180
Kathy Liebert - Table 64

[Subby]

Notable stacks after Day 1a:

Lee Watkinson $160,000
Edouart Cardona $130,000
Tony Laughing Jr. $100,175
Tom Pniak $88,200
Joe Pelton $80,000
Dustin "Neverwin" Woolf $69,500
Liz Lieu $64,000
Layne Flack $61,000
Greg Raymer $48,900
Reza Payvar $38,000

[jbmagic]

i hope Daniel Negreanu wins it

[Subby]

Sorry, rick's muff - your boyfriend Tobey Maguire is out already...

Miami John and Kathy Liebert also out.

Sammy Farha with lots of chips.

The Grinder cracked pocket Aces with 32s. Dick.

[kcchief19]

Hard to believe Negreanu is in as much trouble as he is -- he's down to one $500 chip. Hellmuth is also tied in chips with Mimi Rogers. There are are a lot of marquee players struggling today.

Farha is steaming everybody today. I think he must have taken most of Negreanu's stack at the featured table. David Williams is also playing well. I kind of expected him to fade out this year after a miracle run last year.

The way Liebert lost was just bizarre. Flop comes 2-2-7 and she goes all-in with A-3. She gets called by 5-6, who then hits a two-outer for a straight. I'm not sure I'd have the balls to go all-in with A-3 on a flop like that, and I know I wouldn't have the balls to call with a 5-6, even on a flush draw. CardPlayer didn't list what the suits were, so it's hard to tell if that played a role or not.

[Lathum]

I'm not surprised by Williams at all. He is a solid playe who took second at the Borgata Poker open this year (he lost to Negranue).

I am also not surprised by the "big name pro's" going out early. I thing the average Joe is willing to make loser calls against a pro becaue they wanna be the one to knock them out. I love the world series but the problem is we will never see another pro win. I would be shocked if we have even heard of anyone at the final table.

One thing that does surprise me is that there are actually more then one pro at the same table.

[Lathum]

Negreanu is out

[Airhog]

I remember hearing Scottie saying that everyone know exactly how he plays, but he doesnt know how anyone else plays that isnt a well known pro.

[timmynausea]

Antonio Esfandiari is eliminated.

[Lathum]

check this out

Chip Heist?
Log: After returning from break, David Levi noticed he had a $5,000 chip missing. Johnny Grooms has instructed security to review the security tape. After the video has been reviewed, the Tournament Staff will make a ruling.

[SirFozzie]

Wow.

They stated anyone who was caught trying to passfake chips (which happened in an earlier tournament) would not only be DQ'd from the tournament, but banned from the WSOP for life.

This could be the same thing

[SirFozzie]

check this out

Chip Heist?
Log: After returning from break, David Levi noticed he had a $5,000 chip missing. Johnny Grooms has instructed security to review the security tape. After the video has been reviewed, the Tournament Staff will make a ruling.

where you getting this Lathum?

[SirFozzie]

There's a story out today that Doyle Brunson is fronting a group of players who have made an unsolicited bid to buy the World Poker Tour for $700 Million, all in cash.

[Lathum]

check this out

Chip Heist?
Log: After returning from break, David Levi noticed he had a $5,000 chip missing. Johnny Grooms has instructed security to review the security tape. After the video has been reviewed, the Tournament Staff will make a ruling.
False alarm

[Barkeep49]

Got a link for the Brunson story?

[SirFozzie]

World Poker shares surge on Brunson bid
Fri Jul 8, 2005 11:56 AM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. poker icon Doyle Brunson has launched a $700 million cash bid for WPT Enterprises Inc. <WPTE.O>, which owns the popular World Poker Tour television show, the company said on Friday.

News of the unsolicited bid, made by Brunson with a team of financial backers, sent WPT shares surging 55.4 percent to a record high of $27.60 on Nasdaq.

The bid offers a 100 percent premium over WPT's closing price of $17.75 on Thursday. The company has a market capitalization of about $357 million.

"This was a total surprise," company spokeswoman Jackie Lapin told Reuters. "The board will review this bid."

She did not know when the board planned to meet. The bid was received on Thursday.

Brunson, one of the best known U.S. professional poker players, was not immediately available for comment.

West Hollywood, California-based WPT Enterprises, which was founded in March 2002, went public in August last year at $8 a share, raising $32 million. Its shares rose to their previous high of $24.40 last month.

The company develops products based on gaming themes. World Poker Tour airs on the Travel Channel in the United States and more than 60 markets worldwide.

About 70 percent of the company is owned by two stakeholders; Lakes Entertainment Inc. owns about 62 percent of the company and co-founder and Chief Executive Steven Lipscomb owns about 8.2 percent, according to company data from April.

Brunson, 71, has won the World Series of Poker (WSOP) twice -- in 1976 and 1977 -- and this month won his 10th WSOP bracelet which are awarded to winners of tournaments on the World Series of Poker circuit.

About 25 years ago he cowrote "Super/System," which explained his secrets to winning poker.

[Lathum]

2 thoughts.

If I had know they were public I would have bought a long time ago

this screams insider trading

[SirFozzie]

Brunson doesn't own any of it.. how does this constitute insider trading?

[Desnudo]

It screams something.

[Lathum]

Moneymaker has $22,900 at the dinner break

[Lathum]

Brunson doesn't own any of it.. how does this constitute insider trading?
Just because he doesn't own any of it doesn't mean anything

[SirFozzie]

Just because he doesn't own any of it doesn't mean anything

He's a player in it. If he owns it, he probably cannot play in it, but that's all I think.

[cthomer5000]

I'm not surprised by Williams at all. He is a solid playe who took second at the Borgata Poker open this year (he lost to Negranue).

I am also not surprised by the "big name pro's" going out early. I thing the average Joe is willing to make loser calls against a pro becaue they wanna be the one to knock them out. I love the world series but the problem is we will never see another pro win. I would be shocked if we have even heard of anyone at the final table.

One thing that does surprise me is that there are actually more then one pro at the same table.
I see where you're coming from, but I think you're overexaggerating. I mean, Dan Harrington still finished 4th last year after finishing 3rd the year before.

I think the big problem with players who are constantly on TV is the fact that you can essentially watch some of their matches like you would game film of an opponent. Maybe you recognize something they do and know what it meant then. It makes it much easier to break down tells, or more importantly just the general way in which that player plays, meaning you probably have a better idea than average what hands they might be playing in a situation you've seen them in a number of times.

[Lathum]

Williams is out

[digamma]

2 thoughts.

If I had know they were public I would have bought a long time ago

this screams insider trading
People launch unsolicited bids for companies all the time, i.e. tender offers. It's a way of avoiding negotiating a merger agreement and getting the approval of the target's board of directors. Or, alternatively, a way to get leverage in negotiating a deal with the board.

[hoopsguy]

Here are a few players still alive and kicking after yesterday's action.

Farha - 130k
X-22 - 50k (busted Hellmuth)
Vahedi - 44k
Boyd - 40k
Grinder - 24k
Phillips - 15k
Sklansky - 14k
Moneymaker - 9k

[larrymcg421]

Please Please Please, someone bust Boyd! Ugh.

[timmynausea]

Yeah. Boyd is the worst.

[Radii]

hahaha, 45 minutes into today's action:

"Floor on 127!" are the first words audible today, over the sounds of the clicking chips. Tournament Directors are called to the very table at which Mike Matusow sits, where he's being accused by a dealer of throwing cards. He's immediately assigned a ten minute penalty, but he adamantly and politely defends himself, and is supported by the rest of the players at the table. He's let off with a warning, but not more than a few seconds later, still steaming from the accusation, he let's the F-word slip. "Now I have to give you a 10 minute penalty," says Tournament Director Louis "You can't say the F-word." "F___ that," says Matusow. "Twenty minutes." "F_____n' great." "Thirty minutes." As Matusow leaves the area, he manages to fire off one more F-Bomb, rounding out his penalty to forty minutes, and starting a small round of applause from a crowd who up until this point, had been quite silent, and is now chatting away. Leave it to Mike "The Mouth" to get people talking.

[MJ4H]

hahaha, 45 minutes into today's action:

"Floor on 127!" are the first words audible today, over the sounds of the clicking chips. Tournament Directors are called to the very table at which Mike Matusow sits, where he's being accused by a dealer of throwing cards. He's immediately assigned a ten minute penalty, but he adamantly and politely defends himself, and is supported by the rest of the players at the table. He's let off with a warning, but not more than a few seconds later, still steaming from the accusation, he let's the F-word slip. "Now I have to give you a 10 minute penalty," says Tournament Director Louis "You can't say the F-word." "F___ that," says Matusow. "Twenty minutes." "F_____n' great." "Thirty minutes." As Matusow leaves the area, he manages to fire off one more F-Bomb, rounding out his penalty to forty minutes, and starting a small round of applause from a crowd who up until this point, had been quite silent, and is now chatting away. Leave it to Mike "The Mouth" to get people talking.
Blatanly ripped from the 2+2 thread, but I laughed so thought I'd share it here:

Does the above incident remind anyone of this:

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7647/breakfastclub79da.jpg

[Chubby]

hahaha, 45 minutes into today's action:

"Floor on 127!" are the first words audible today, over the sounds of the clicking chips. Tournament Directors are called to the very table at which Mike Matusow sits, where he's being accused by a dealer of throwing cards. He's immediately assigned a ten minute penalty, but he adamantly and politely defends himself, and is supported by the rest of the players at the table. He's let off with a warning, but not more than a few seconds later, still steaming from the accusation, he let's the F-word slip. "Now I have to give you a 10 minute penalty," says Tournament Director Louis "You can't say the F-word." "F___ that," says Matusow. "Twenty minutes." "F_____n' great." "Thirty minutes." As Matusow leaves the area, he manages to fire off one more F-Bomb, rounding out his penalty to forty minutes, and starting a small round of applause from a crowd who up until this point, had been quite silent, and is now chatting away. Leave it to Mike "The Mouth" to get people talking.

dumbest... fucking... rule... ever

[Lathum]

dumbest... fucking... rule... ever
why?

[Comey]

Because it's poker. As others have described, it's not golf. People are gambling. They're down to their raw emotions. Expletives fly.

One person got eliminated for muttering fuck late in a tournament. It wasn't even directed at anyone. Another one had to sit out during heads-up play. He was out for 10 minutes, and they were down to two players.

It's an idiot rule, and hopefully will only last this year.

[Lathum]

Because it's poker. As others have described, it's not golf. People are gambling. They're down to their raw emotions. Expletives fly.

One person got eliminated for muttering fuck late in a tournament. It wasn't even directed at anyone. Another one had to sit out during heads-up play. He was out for 10 minutes, and they were down to two players.

It's an idiot rule, and hopefully will only last this year.
That rule isn't going anywhere.

First off. Poker is now made for TV. The last thing ESPN wants is to lose viewers and adveritisers because they are bleeping everything out.

Second. There can be now gray area. You drop the F-Bomb, you get a penalty. Thats it. If you don't have a rule like that it would be very easy to have an internet type atmosphere where you can curse people out.

In any sport if you curse at an official you get tossed or penalized. Why should poker be any different?

[Chubby]

That rule isn't going anywhere.

First off. Poker is now made for TV. The last thing ESPN wants is to lose viewers and adveritisers because they are bleeping everything out.

Second. There can be now gray area. You drop the F-Bomb, you get a penalty. Thats it. If you don't have a rule like that it would be very easy to have an internet type atmosphere where you can curse people out.

In any sport if you curse at an official you get tossed or penalized. Why should poker be any different?
It's not about cursing at an official, or a dealer, or a tournament director. It's about simply saying "Fuck" when something bad happens. Is there a list of words that are acceptable? Can you swear in another language since that most likely won't get bleeped out? If you want to make an analogy then at least make a correct one, this would be similar to say imposing a technical foul during an NBA game every time a player or coach said a swear word.

How are they going to lose viewers? Didn't seem to affect the last 2 years of coverage with the bleeps now did it?

No you wouldn't have an internet type of atmosphere where you could curse people out. Try doing that in a casino right now, won't happen cause you'll be booted. You can however yell shit or fuck or whatever you want without getting a stupid 10 minute penalty as long as you aren't berating someone. It's called common sense.

[Lathum]

Actually using profanity has been a long standing rule in tournament poker.

My point is there can't be any GRAY AREA.

[cthomer5000]

Why am i not surprised that Chubby is the type of guy would oppose such a rule?

[Chubby]

Why am i not surprised that Chubby is the type of guy would oppose such a rule?
If it's allowed at a regular poker table then it should be allowed in a tournment. There's a big difference between muttering "fuck" to yourself and curing someone a blye streak which is why there is a difference in what happens to you in those situations at a real poker table. It's not complicated.

[Lathum]

If it's allowed at a regular poker table then it should be allowed in a tournment. There's a big difference between muttering "fuck" to yourself and curing someone a blye streak which is why there is a difference in what happens to you in those situations at a real poker table. It's not complicated.
so what if someone says "un fucking believable"

should they be punished?

was it directed at themselves? the cards? the dealer? the other player?

there is no way to know, so there can be no gray area. It's not that complicated.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Shocker of shocks ... me & Chubby appear to be in complete agreement on this one.

[cthomer5000]

If it's allowed at a regular poker table then it should be allowed in a tournment. There's a big difference between muttering "fuck" to yourself and curing someone a blye streak which is why there is a difference in what happens to you in those situations at a real poker table. It's not complicated.
I'd be fine with this rule in any and all situations, but it's irrelevant.

This is a tournament, and it is a rule of the tournament. As long as it's enforeced evenly, it's a fair rule.

Now, think about why the rule exists. A lot of people have paid a lot of money to be involved with the broadcast of the WSOP. Everything boils down to money. ESPN probably wants to produce a cleaner broadcast, something more palatable to the masses. They want increased viewership, which will lead to increased advertising rates. I'm sure they had a lot to do with this rule being implemented in the first place.

Perhaps ABC has aspirations to air some of the episodes on their network station (and if not this year, perhaps next).

The rule is probably also their to curb player abuse, people cursing out guys who hit a 2-outer, etc. My guess is that if that was the intent, they realized trying to determine when something was or wasn't abusive/taunting, etc would introduce a lot of gray area. It's just easier to institute a flat "no f-bomb" rule.

It seems simple enough to me, and is as fair as a no-smoking rule.

[cthomer5000]

Actually using profanity has been a long standing rule in tournament poker.

My point is there can't be any GRAY AREA.
I'm in complete agreement with you. Rather than trying to determine the intent of a curse, it's much easier to have an across the board rule.

[timmynausea]

Doyle Brunson is out.

[Chubby]

so what if someone says "un fucking believable"

should they be punished?

was it directed at themselves? the cards? the dealer? the other player?

there is no way to know, so there can be no gray area. It's not that complicated.
which is exactly why it's a stupid rule. Somehow they manage to figure it out at every poker room I've played in so far. I've seen people go nuts letting tirades fly and a floor simply comes over and tells them to settle down or they'll be removed. They either settle down or are booted.

ct - I understand why the rule was most likely instituted. it's still a dumb rule IMO. lord knows there's never any bleeps during a football/baseball/etc game. They could just as easily do away with the tirades without being fuckin FCC nazis about it. I always get a chuckle when they show say, Deeb saying fuck like 10 times because he go suckered into a hand :D

[Chubby]

So seriously, is there a list of words you can't say? Can they swear in another language and get away with it? Will we start seeing imaginative ways to curse that don't break this stupid rule?

[Lathum]

Can they swear in another language and get away with it?

you can only speak english at the tables

[cthomer5000]

has anyone seen a complete list of those still in the tourney after day "one?"

They're down to what, around ~1,950 now?

[Chubby]

you can only speak english at the tables
since when? mr swede was sure speaking another language on the air last year :D where's his lame ass 10 min penalty? :p

[cthomer5000]

leaders as per Cardplayer.com

Nearly 1,900 players have survived their Day Ones to return for Day Two. Here are the top ten chip leaders:


1. Haakon Waerstad - $169,200
2. Sam Farha - $156,600
3. Nguyen Duc - $150,250
4. Lee Watkinson - $145,800
5. Graeme Harrison - $142,700
6. Jeffrey Dziedzic - $136,450
7. Brad Kondracki - $131,825
8. Mike Gambony - $130,000
9. Ed Cardona - $129,475
10. Pete Lawson - $124,825

[MJ4H]

Thought I would share this gem I just came across, just for Chubby:

9:30pm... Boring Sunday... at least four members of the media agree that today is a little slow, borderline on boring. Aside from the early Matusow F-bomb the only other story involved Anna Benson who dropped an F-bomb herself and was told that was the only word she could not say at the table. She proceeded to let rip as many curse words as possible to test the rule. She even pitched out the word "cocksucker."

[MJ4H]

and Gus Hansen is out according to Tao of Poker:

12:41pm... Chops (http://www.wickedchopspoker.com/) told me that Gus Hansen was busted. His 9-9 ran into J-J.

[Chubby]

Thought I would share this gem I just came across, just for Chubby:

9:30pm... Boring Sunday... at least four members of the media agree that today is a little slow, borderline on boring. Aside from the early Matusow F-bomb the only other story involved Anna Benson who dropped an F-bomb herself and was told that was the only word she could not say at the table. She proceeded to let rip as many curse words as possible to test the rule. She even pitched out the word "cocksucker."
:D She rocks!

[larrymcg421]

I like the way Ivey is playing right now. I think he has a shot to go far this year.

[Northwood_DK]

Chris Moneymaker has been eliminated

2003 Main Event World Champion Chris Moneymaker moves all in from the small blind with 7h-2h, and is called by Jeremy Khinoo who holds A-K. The board comes K-Q-3-3-Q, and Moneymaker is sent home on Day 2 by Jeremy Khinoo's two pair with the ace kicker.

[larrymcg421]

Yeah Moneymaker was damaged late in day 1 when his Aces were cracked by Queens.

I'm sure people will use this as proof that he just got lucky the first time around. :rolleyes:

[MJ4H]

Raymer out, too.

[Northwood_DK]

I guess this is the full lister after the first day

http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/wsop_results.asp

[larrymcg421]

Raymer is still in. The tourney director got Raymer and Moneymaker confused.

[timmynausea]

They do have similar FAT-ial features.

[MJ4H]

Raymer is still in. The tourney director got Raymer and Moneymaker confused. source?

Edit: found it myself, nm

[MJ4H]

They do have similar FAT-ial features.
to be fair, the reports ive read claim moneymaker slimmed down a LOT

[timmynausea]

It was just a joke. Moneymaker was never hugely fat, just a bit chubby.

[Chubby]

It was just a joke. Moneymaker was never hugely fat, just a bit chubby.
I wouldn't be online if I hadn't gotten knocked out today :D

[Chubby]

so I'm just curious how anyone can be in favor of a rule that bans ONE word. you can yell "cocksucker" all you want but not "fuck"? comical...

[larrymcg421]

Harrington's amazing run has sadly ended.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... Aside from the early Matusow F-bomb the only other story involved Anna Benson who dropped an F-bomb herself and was told that was the only word she could not say at the table. She proceeded to let rip as many curse words as possible to test the rule. She even pitched out the word "cocksucker."

If that's accurate, I think I've got a new favorite poker pro.

[MJ4H]

If that's accurate, I think I've got a new favorite poker pro.
Not that it really matters to your sentiment, but there is a very high chance she isn't a pro. I've never heard of her, but that doesn't mean anything. Lots of amateurs abound these days, though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not that it really matters to your sentiment, but there is a very high chance she isn't a pro. I've never heard of her, but that doesn't mean anything. Lots of amateurs abound these days, though.

Ah, the name seemed familiar, but that may just be because she's got "one of those names" that just sounds that way. (maybe you know what I'm mean, some names just "seem" familiar).

Either way, I love the story.

[kcchief19]

Because it's poker. As others have described, it's not golf. People are gambling. They're down to their raw emotions. Expletives fly.

One person got eliminated for muttering fuck late in a tournament. It wasn't even directed at anyone. Another one had to sit out during heads-up play. He was out for 10 minutes, and they were down to two players. That's a weak argument. "Raw emotions" lead to fist fights and gun play -- you want to see that at the WSOP too?

It's a dumb rule in the sense that they only banned one word, but I know they have reason for it -- and it's actually a good reason. I don't even think it's entirely driven by ESPN. I'll get you'll see Matusow's explosion on TV. Cursing and bleeping makes for good TV.

But it also makes it look like poker players are a bunch of swearing, drinking, ass munches. Poker is a multimillion dollar business -- the investors behind it want to see it thrive and in that regard it's all about image. They want to give the impression that poker players are a lot like golfers.

I heard in an interview the other day about the PGA and swearing that Tiger Woods is the most penalized golfer in the PGA by a mile, and it's almost all for his temper and cursing. You don't hear about it because the PGA has a rule against disclosing its fines. But lots of sports have similar rules.

If you don't like it, there's the door. This isn't Nazi Germany. Chill out.

[kcchief19]

Ah, the name seemed familiar, but that may just be because she's got "one of those names" that just sounds that way. (maybe you know what I'm mean, some names just "seem" familiar).

Either way, I love the story. Jon and MJ4H lose 10 cool points. That Anna Benson would be the same Anna Benson who is married to pitcher Kris Benson. If you're not aware of Anna's story, do a quick search for "anna benson and sex" or "anna benson naked" and you'll get all the information you need.

She's also only been playing poker for two weeks. Her success in the tournament thus far is either an indication that it takes zero skill to play poker with the pros or that pros and amateurs alike refuse to beat against hot women.

[MJ4H]

Jon and MJ4H lose 10 cool points. That Anna Benson would be the same Anna Benson who is married to pitcher Kris Benson. If you're not aware of Anna's story, do a quick search for "anna benson and sex" or "anna benson naked" and you'll get all the information you need.

She's also only been playing poker for two weeks. Her success in the tournament thus far is either an indication that it takes zero skill to play poker with the pros or that pros and amateurs alike refuse to beat against hot women.
Bleh if being knowledgeable about pitchers' wives is what it takes to earn cool points, keep em.

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[timmynausea]

That's a weak argument. "Raw emotions" lead to fist fights and gun play -- you want to see that at the WSOP too?

It's a dumb rule in the sense that they only banned one word, but I know they have reason for it -- and it's actually a good reason. I don't even think it's entirely driven by ESPN. I'll get you'll see Matusow's explosion on TV. Cursing and bleeping makes for good TV.

But it also makes it look like poker players are a bunch of swearing, drinking, ass munches. Poker is a multimillion dollar business -- the investors behind it want to see it thrive and in that regard it's all about image. They want to give the impression that poker players are a lot like golfers.

I heard in an interview the other day about the PGA and swearing that Tiger Woods is the most penalized golfer in the PGA by a mile, and it's almost all for his temper and cursing. You don't hear about it because the PGA has a rule against disclosing its fines. But lots of sports have similar rules.

If you don't like it, there's the door. This isn't Nazi Germany. Chill out.


You know, I heard that next year they're going to implement a new rule to try to cut down on some of the gambling in the WSOP as some folks find that offensive.

[kcchief19]

Bleh if being knowledgeable about pitchers' wives is what it takes to earn cool points, keep em.
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif The fact that she's a pitcher's wife doesn't lose you cool points -- it's the fact that you don't know about a hot chick who appears to be a sexaholic and poses for soft-core porn. But that's just me. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

[kcchief19]

For the record, I don't want Mike Matusow to win because he's a tool. But the farther he goes, the more potential fun there will be. They're in love with him at CardPlayer. Aside from the cursing penalty, he's announced he's going to write a book -- "How to Play Like a Donkey and Win at Poker" -- and he told a guy who had AQ going up against AK and said "I'm dead" that "No, you're a 3-to-1 favorite," and the guy wins when he catches a Q.

When he loses, he'll meltdown. The further into the tournament, the bigger the meltdown. It'll be awesome.

Raymer's putting togethe a nice run. Some names are starting to rise to the top. Chip Reese has had a nice run, and Layne Flack appears to be on a roll along with Mizrachi. Tran and Meehand are having nice runs too.

I'm hoping Howard Lederer puts together a run. He's been plodding along most of the way. Farha's been up and down, so has Ivey.

[larrymcg421]

Little bit of trivia. Matusow owned a piece of Scotty Nguyen when he won the WSOP.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ohhhhhhhh ... now I know why the name sounded familiar.

I just didn't put 2+2 together in this context.

[timmynausea]

For the record, I don't want Mike Matusow to win because he's a tool. But the farther he goes, the more potential fun there will be. They're in love with him at CardPlayer. Aside from the cursing penalty, he's announced he's going to write a book -- "How to Play Like a Donkey and Win at Poker" -- and he told a guy who had AQ going up against AK and said "I'm dead" that "No, you're a 3-to-1 favorite," and the guy wins when he catches a Q.

When he loses, he'll meltdown. The further into the tournament, the bigger the meltdown. It'll be awesome.

Raymer's putting togethe a nice run. Some names are starting to rise to the top. Chip Reese has had a nice run, and Layne Flack appears to be on a roll along with Mizrachi. Tran and Meehand are having nice runs too.

I'm hoping Howard Lederer puts together a run. He's been plodding along most of the way. Farha's been up and down, so has Ivey.


I'm with you on Lederer. Mizrachi got knocked out a couple hours ago. (Now that I double check this, it appears a different Mizrachi got knocked out.)

[larrymcg421]

Interesting story going on. Olga Varkonyi, wife of 2002 champ Robert Varkonyi, now has $290,000 in chips sitting in front of her.

[larrymcg421]

Good news for Grinder fans. He just won a $260,000 pot, taking most of Layne Flack's chips. On a TJT board, Flack held AJ and Grinder had KK. All the money got in at the river with neither hand having been helped

[digamma]

For the record, I don't want Mike Matusow to win because he's a tool. But the farther he goes, the more potential fun there will be. They're in love with him at CardPlayer. Aside from the cursing penalty, he's announced he's going to write a book -- "How to Play Like a Donkey and Win at Poker" --
I think that was a joke.


and he told a guy who had AQ going up against AK and said "I'm dead" that "No, you're a 3-to-1 favorite," and the guy wins when he catches a Q.
I think he said just "you're 3 to 1" meaning the guy was a 3 to 1 dog.



When he loses, he'll meltdown. The further into the tournament, the bigger the meltdown. It'll be awesome.


I agree. The guy's a tool, but I think you have to give him a little more credit than you do.

[larrymcg421]

With the AK vs. AQ thing, he did mean "3-1 favorite" but he was joking. He was referring to his spectacular defeat at last year's WSOP when his AK lost against AQ after a Q spiked on the river. The Hellmuthian cameras followed Matusow and watched him break down. It was awesome.

[timmynausea]

Day 2 (sorta day 4) is over. The good news is that Lederer is up to $156k. The bad news is that Dutch Boyd has $139k.

[MJ4H]

Up to date chip counts:
http://pokerwire.com/updatechipcount.php?updatecc_id=5304&tourney=2005%2BWSOP&game=%255BEvent%2B42%255D%2B%252410%252C000%253Cbr%253ENo%2BLimit%2BHold%2527em%253Cbr%253EMain%2BEvent

[MJ4H]

If you dont want to click, Greg Raymer is 9th with 318,700, Lee Watkinson is 6th with 336,800.

The chip leader is Rod Pardy Jr with 464,000.

[Subby]

Nine spots away from the money, they'll be playing hand-for-hand until they get there. Thatis going to take a long time.

I have 7 of 25 players left from a ME fantasy league I paid $25 to enter. Raymer, Flack, Grinder, Gerasimov, Ivey, Gavin Smith, and John Juanda...they all look like good bets to money, although I think a couple have below average chip stacks.

[Comey]

That's a weak argument. "Raw emotions" lead to fist fights and gun play -- you want to see that at the WSOP too?

It's a dumb rule in the sense that they only banned one word, but I know they have reason for it -- and it's actually a good reason. I don't even think it's entirely driven by ESPN. I'll get you'll see Matusow's explosion on TV. Cursing and bleeping makes for good TV.

But it also makes it look like poker players are a bunch of swearing, drinking, ass munches. Poker is a multimillion dollar business -- the investors behind it want to see it thrive and in that regard it's all about image. They want to give the impression that poker players are a lot like golfers.

I heard in an interview the other day about the PGA and swearing that Tiger Woods is the most penalized golfer in the PGA by a mile, and it's almost all for his temper and cursing. You don't hear about it because the PGA has a rule against disclosing its fines. But lots of sports have similar rules.

If you don't like it, there's the door. This isn't Nazi Germany. Chill out.
You're right, it's not Nazi Germany. That's why the players being censored, in an adult event (no kids are allowed there), is inane. And no, it's not a weak argument; you're just embellishing on it.

How many people watch poker to see the players act like golfers? Some do, but some watch it to see the personalities...to see players like Matusow. Those players wouldn't be anywhere in the public eye without their verbose personality. I admit, I am a rather gentle player, in that I never talk to get some riled up or tilt them. But if the players were like golfers, TV poker would be ridiculously boring.

Why, by the way, do you think he got an applause for his reaction to the new rule? Because people didn't want him playing? Or because he did what they wanted to do? Reports on the subject lean suggest the latter.

And the opinion remains that the way the rule has been implemented has not been the best; it has directly affected results for infractions that shouldn't have even been considered.

In an era when "bullshit" makes it on TV regularly, I don't hold the opinion that swearing puts poker players in a bad light. The rule, however, is restrictive, and was not well thoughtout this year.

[kcchief19]

I think that was a joke. I know, silly. That's why it was funny. :)
I think he said just "you're 3 to 1" meaning the guy was a 3 to 1 dog. As I've read it a couple of places, he was "serious" in that the guy was saying, "I'm dead," and Matusow was saying, "No, no, you're 3-1 to win" -- he was being sarcastic because he had just lost a couple of hands to serious underdogs who sucked out and he's been railing throughout the entire WSOP about amateurs who don't know what they're doing and still win because they get lucky.
I agree. The guy's a tool, but I think you have to give him a little more credit than you do. I didn't think I was taking anything away from the guy. I actually enjoy watching him play because while he's mildly funny when he win, he's even funnier when he loses. He's a great player and a great poker mind, he just happens to be a tool so it's fun to watch him implode.

[kcchief19]

You're right, it's not Nazi Germany. That's why the players being censored, in an adult event (no kids are allowed there), is inane. And no, it's not a weak argument; you're just embellishing on it. Lot of things wrong there; it's not an "adult" event -- it's beening show on ESPN all times of the day. That's the audience. There are plenty of good arguments against the rule, but "raw emotion" isn't one of them. Are you going to say that as long as it's verbal then it's "good" raw emotion as opposed to punching someone who sucks out against you as "bad" raw emotion? Grey lines are worse than black and white rules like this -- I give them credit for having a very clear rule and enforcing it consistently, regardless of whether you like the rule or not.

But this is not censorship! This is not the government prohibiting speech. This is a private company saying if you want to play in our contest, you have to play by our rules. What's wrong with that, other than you disagree with the rule?
And the opinion remains that the way the rule has been implemented has not been the best; it has directly affected results for infractions that shouldn't have even been considered.

In an era when "bullshit" makes it on TV regularly, I don't hold the opinion that swearing puts poker players in a bad light. The rule, however, is restrictive, and was not well thoughtout this year. I agreed that the rule was implemented poorly. I think if their plan was to improve the "atmosphere" of the tournament and make it more TV-friendly, then needed to put a lot more words on the list. I disagree completely that "it has directly affected results for infractions that shouldn't have even been considered." They tournament organizers decided that any use of the F-bomb should be penalized and they knew full well what that meant.

I think the organizers running the tournament know that not everyone is against swearing, and I think they know that not everyone holds the opinion that it puts poker players in a bad light -- these people are otherwise known as "poker fans." They aren't trying to woo people like you; they are trying to woo people who don't play/watch poker because they think it's nothing but cursing and drinking.

I really don't care one way or another about the rule, but I think it's silly to howl against it because it's their preroggative to run their tournament any way they want to, and the way they have chose to run it is pretty much like every other sporting event where the competitors can be heard. NBA player's don't get fined for cursing during the game when you can't hear them saying anything, but Shaq got penalized for cursing in a postgame interview on TV.

I suppose the solution is to let everybody curse all they want and not expect anyone to act respectable in certain situations. I guess I'm a curmudgeon too for not caring if someone can or can't curse.

[rkmsuf]

I think it's resonable to ask, in light of the intense media coverage, that the players refrain from cursing.

I mean players are benefitting directly from the coverage and interest. It's not hard to curtail the f bomb for a chance at 7 million bucks.

[Comey]

Here's a scenario from yesterday, which illustrates the poor use of the rule.

Anna Benson, wife of Kris Benson, used the f-bomb. She was then instructed that she couldn't use that word. She proceeded to use every other curse word she could, including "cocksucker". She was not penalized.

I agree about the private company business and censorship. But the rule is *still* a bad one, on the basis that they've implemented it in such a fashion that has no regard for the situation in which the word was used.

I believe the tournament put the rule in with good intentions; you don't want to have a situation break out by name-calling. But they've implemented it in an awful way, one that has prohibited the players.

I still believe this rule won't be here after this year, in its current form. And, truth be told, I don't care if the rule exists or not, either.

[rkmsuf]

Here's a scenario from yesterday, which illustrates the poor use of the rule.

Anna Benson, wife of Kris Benson, used the f-bomb. She was then instructed that she couldn't use that word. She proceeded to use every other curse word she could, including "cocksucker". She was not penalized.

I agree about the private company business and censorship. But the rule is *still* a bad one, on the basis that they've implemented it in such a fashion that has no regard for the situation in which the word was used.

I believe the tournament put the rule in with good intentions; you don't want to have a situation break out by name-calling. But they've implemented it in an awful way, one that has prohibited the players.

I still believe this rule won't be here after this year, in its current form. And, truth be told, I don't care if the rule exists or not, either.

It should be no cursing in general or no rule at all.

[digamma]

I know, silly. That's why it was funny. :)
As I've read it a couple of places, he was "serious" in that the guy was saying, "I'm dead," and Matusow was saying, "No, no, you're 3-1 to win" -- he was being sarcastic because he had just lost a couple of hands to serious underdogs who sucked out and he's been railing throughout the entire WSOP about amateurs who don't know what they're doing and still win because they get lucky.
I didn't think I was taking anything away from the guy. I actually enjoy watching him play because while he's mildly funny when he win, he's even funnier when he loses. He's a great player and a great poker mind, he just happens to be a tool so it's fun to watch him implode.
Completely misread your intent with the first post. My apologies.

[Northwood_DK]

We are just 4 players away from the money.
#560 will get $12.500

[larrymcg421]

Gutshot is reporting only one spot to go before the money.

[Northwood_DK]

Cardplayer has 563 players left after 10 hands today. They started the day with 569 players.

[larrymcg421]

We're in the money now. Apparently the 561st place finisher was given a seat in the 2006 Main Event. Not a bad deal.

During the hand-for-hand play, Mike Matusow doubled up. He has over 200k.
Say what you want about Matusow, that guy has guts. Maybe he had AA, though.

[Chubby]

I think it's resonable to ask, in light of the intense media coverage, that the players refrain from cursing.

I mean players are benefitting directly from the coverage and interest. It's not hard to curtail the f bomb for a chance at 7 million bucks.
Show me where the tv dollars are being put into the pot.

Thing is, they aren't so the players aren't making a dime off of ESPN. The casino is tho. The players are benefitting from the boom of internet poker which is where the bulk of the new entries are coming from as far as I know.

[SirFozzie]

A full 20% of the field (1100 or so) came from PokerStars alone.

[kcchief19]

Show me where the tv dollars are being put into the pot.

Thing is, they aren't so the players aren't making a dime off of ESPN. The casino is tho. The players are benefitting from the boom of internet poker which is where the bulk of the new entries are coming from as far as I know. The players don't own the World Series of Poker. Harrah's does. They are making plenty of money from ESPN. That's where TV money comes into the equation. I also think it's easy to make a case the ESPN's coverage has helped poker explode. Internet poker was growing slowly until Chris Moneymaker's victory, then it exploded. If Moneymaker's victory hadn't been on TV, the boom would have been much quieter.

But like I said, this isn't about the money as much as it is image. Look at the World Poker Tour broadcasts -- those are about as "family friendly" as you can get for poker. They make poker players seem like serious professionals rather than just a bunch of drunken chain-smoking gambling addicts. And I don't think the swearing rule is as much for ESPN (there is such a thing as editing) as it is for all of the other coverage going on from other media outlets that are not as strenuously edited.

Comey, I agree that the rule wasn't well thought out. I agree the rule will likely be changed next year -- and it's going to be a lot more all encompassing. They've already banned smoking; next up is cursing. I think they'd probably go after the drinking if it weren't for the fact that it makes it easer for the pros to pick off the dead money when the amateurs get a few drinks in them.

[kcchief19]

Completely misread your intent with the first post. My apologies. None necessary. Sorry my tone wasn't clear. :)

Lederer finally made a couple of big moves -- I'd love to see him make the final table and win it all.

[cthomer5000]

Show me where the tv dollars are being put into the pot.

Thing is, they aren't so the players aren't making a dime off of ESPN. The casino is tho. The players are benefitting from the boom of internet poker which is where the bulk of the new entries are coming from as far as I know.
All those guys with book deals, sponsorships from poker sites, etc can thank TV coverage for almost all of it.

[Chubby]

All those guys with book deals, sponsorships from poker sites, etc can thank TV coverage for almost all of it.
so we're talking about what? 1% maybe that benefit from that which still has nothing to do with the $7 million dollar 1st prize in the ME or any of the other smaller events' payouts. Harrah's makes a mint I'm sure off of the WSOP telecasts, the players make nothing off of the telecast.

[SirFozzie]

heheheheh. Here's something funny from Tao of Poker

7:54pm... 334 players remain. I heard a rumor that the top 200 players will be drug tested.

[vtbub]

Sammy Farha gone at around 316th.

[Suicane75]

Sammy Farha gone at around 316th.
Noooooooooo!! http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif

[vtbub]

from cardplayer.com:

With the board showing 5-4-4-3 on the turn, Sammy Farha is all in against John Falconeer at ESPN's Featured Table. Farha shows pocket sevens (an overpair and a gut-shot straight draw), but Falconeer has pocket fives (full house). Farha's straight draw is dead, and he now needs to catch one of the last two sevens in the deck to stay alive. The river card is an 8, and Sammy Farha is eliminated from the Championship Event.

Farha finished in approximately 316th place. He will receive $21,070 for his efforts.

[larrymcg421]

Check this hand out.

Tiffany Williamson ($320,000) has AsQs
Player 2 ($300,000) has AcKh

Tiffany makes it $30k to go. Player 2 raises all in. Tiffany calls???

Board: 5s5cJs3h8s giving Tiffany the flush.

So she won and is among the chip leaders now. It's a good story, but man, how do you call with AQ in that spot?

[SirFozzie]

Good news/Bad News.

The guy I mentioned in that other thread, Christopher "Trocar Slush Weasel" Hamlyn DID make the money.

The bad news is.. he's now out in 295th place. Trocar takes home: $24,365 (before Taxes). Not bad for an online qualifier.

[Maple Leafs]

so we're talking about what? 1% maybe that benefit from that which still has nothing to do with the $7 million dollar 1st prize in the ME or any of the other smaller events' payouts. Harrah's makes a mint I'm sure off of the WSOP telecasts, the players make nothing off of the telecast.You don't think the huge field, which pays for the huge prizes, is at all a result of the increased TV coverage over the last few years?

[MJ4H]

Can't believe nobody's bumped this to mention the chipleader:

1 Greg "Fossilman"Raymer $ 1,064,000
2 Rodney Pardey Jr. $ 1,041,000
3 Brad Kondracki $ 962,500
4 Johnny Howard $ 910,500
5 Bob Larsen $ 796,500
6 Tim Phan $ 746,000
7 Phil Ivey $ 722,500
8 Steve Marx $ 679,500
9 S Bartholomew $ 659,000
10 Gabe Wells $ 655,500

[larrymcg421]

Once Raymer gets a big stack, he is very dangerous. He was down to $3500 at one point, went on a rush to get a nice stack and hasn't looked back.

He attacks with his big stack as good as anyone I've ever seen. He did the same thing at last year's WSOP, completely bullying every table he was at.

[rkmsuf]

Once Raymer gets a big stack, he is very dangerous. He was down to $3500 at one point, went on a rush to get a nice stack and hasn't looked back.

He attacks with his big stack as good as anyone I've ever seen. He did the same thing at last year's WSOP, completely bullying every table he was at.

And I'd guess there will be a lot more pressure on the other guys who haven't won the thing already.

[QuikSand]

Well, Raymer has something unique at stake - he could cataput himself into the highest annals of poker stardom with another win, or even a top-tier finish. Honestly, with all the grumblings that Dan Harrington got for making two final tables -- if Raymer wins once and makes another strong finish against a field this huge? He'd clearly set himself apart from the legions of "some guy" players out there who get lucky and win an event here or there.

[rkmsuf]

Well, Raymer has something unique at stake - he could cataput himself into the highest annals of poker stardom with another win, or even a top-tier finish. Honestly, with all the grumblings that Dan Harrington got for making two final tables -- if Raymer wins once and makes another strong finish against a field this huge? He'd clearly set himself apart from the legions of "some guy" players out there who get lucky and win an event here or there.


For some reason he doesn't impress me as the type to get into that part of it.

[timmynausea]

Well, Raymer has something unique at stake - he could cataput himself into the highest annals of poker stardom with another win, or even a top-tier finish. Honestly, with all the grumblings that Dan Harrington got for making two final tables -- if Raymer wins once and makes another strong finish against a field this huge? He'd clearly set himself apart from the legions of "some guy" players out there who get lucky and win an event here or there.

That's what I was thinking. Although I never thought he was an absolute bum, I think he moves into the top tier with a top 10 or so finish this year.

[larrymcg421]

Hallelujah!

Dutch Boyd is all-in preflop with K-10 and is called by Chris Todlewski with A-A. The board comes Q-J-5, giving Boyd an open ended straight draw. The turn is a K. Boyd can now also hit an A for a chop. The river is the 4s, and Dutch Boyd's busted straight is eliminated by Todlewski's pocket Aces.

[Subby]

Dutch Boyd out...guess he won't be paying all those folks back afterall :)

[Subby]

Tough table:

Seat #4 - Phil Ivey
Seat #5 - John Juanda
Seat #6 - Farzad Bonyadi
Seat #7 - C.K. Hua

[larrymcg421]

From the Gutshot interview with Raymer, he talked about how many people were paying him off. I guess they bought into the "he was lucky" nonsense and call him with lesser hands because they didn't respect him.

[larrymcg421]

I thought this was funny:

What does a bad beat sound like? Cliff Cantor is all in, and when the river card falls, he lets out the F-Bomb loud enough for the entire tournament area to hear. Since he is eliminated on the hand, the ten-minute penalty is pretty irrelevant.

[larrymcg421]

Ivey, Juanda, and Lederer are now at the same table.

I'd get a 10 minute penalty for dropping the f-bomb if I saw all of them coming to my table.

[Maple Leafs]

I'd get a 10 minute penalty for dropping the f-bomb if I saw all of them coming to my table.
I think I'd want a 10 minute penalty for dropping the f-bomb if I saw all of them coming to my table.

[Chubby]

You don't think the huge field, which pays for the huge prizes, is at all a result of the increased TV coverage over the last few years?

nope, as I've already said it's due to the boom in internet poker. it's not like a shitload of people suddenly came into $10k they could spend on a poker tourny. Has tv helped increase the internet poker boom? Sure, but it isn't anywhere near the sole cause for it. There's been a growing internet gambling thing going on for years.

[Chubby]

go Ivey!

[larrymcg421]

Juanda just busted Lederer.

[cthomer5000]

nope, as I've already said it's due to the boom in internet poker. it's not like a shitload of people suddenly came into $10k they could spend on a poker tourny. Has tv helped increase the internet poker boom? Sure, but it isn't anywhere near the sole cause for it. There's been a growing internet gambling thing going on for years.
Yeah but Chubby the field MORE THAN DOUBLE from 2003 to 2004, and basically doubled again this year. You're nuts if you think TV isn't responsible for almost all new internet site players.

[kcchief19]

Yeah but Chubby the field MORE THAN DOUBLE from 2003 to 2004, and basically doubled again this year. You're nuts if you think TV isn't responsible for almost all new internet site players. Exactly.

My boy Lederer has busted out.

Interesting that so far ESPN hasn't put Matusow and Raymer together at the featured table. I think someone high up at the network is crossing their fingers that these two will make it to the final table. It should be great TV to see them rekindle the rivalry the sparked at last year's WSOP.

[kcchief19]

Well, Raymer has something unique at stake - he could cataput himself into the highest annals of poker stardom with another win, or even a top-tier finish. Honestly, with all the grumblings that Dan Harrington got for making two final tables -- if Raymer wins once and makes another strong finish against a field this huge? He'd clearly set himself apart from the legions of "some guy" players out there who get lucky and win an event here or there. I'm not one to argue with results, so despite the fact that I can't really embrace Raymer as one of my preferred players, I think he deserves much more credit than he's received.

Despite that, if Raymer does repeat at the final table, I think he'll still be knocked as lucky because of his style of play. People see Dan Harrington and I think have more respect for that because he is so conservative and deliberate. Raymer is so much more aggressive and ends up in more than his fair share of races and appears to be more lucky, regardless of whether that is reality.

[larrymcg421]

It's a huge misnomer that Harrington doesn't get lucky. He was all in and cracked Aces with Jacks on day three last year when a four flush hit. Otherwise, no one would be talking about his back to back performances. We just haven't seen him get lucky. Raymer seems lucky because he builds big stacks and makes calls that people like Harrington aren't willing to make.

[Maple Leafs]

Interesting that so far ESPN hasn't put Matusow and Raymer together at the featured table.Does ESPN get to choose who's at each table?

[larrymcg421]

No ESPN doesn't get to choose the table seating. It's completely random. But they know the table seatings ahead of time and get to pick the feature table accordingly.

The last two years they have been very lucky by getting the eventual champion on Day 3. In 2003 they had Moneymaker with Lederer, Darden, and Chan and last year they had Raymer and Matusow.

[hoopsguy]

This sounds a little brutal ...

With the board showing 7-5-3-K Greg Raymer bets $80,000 and Tex Barch calls. The river brings a 6. Barch bets out $400,000 and Raymer calls. Barch shows 9-8, for a rivered gutshot. Raymer ships over $500,000 to Barch on the hand and is down to $700,000 in chips.

If he is shipping over 500k, then it sounds like Burch called down a pot-sized bet on the turn to try and hit his gutshot. Would really be interested in hearing the suits to know if the guy called that bet with four outs (assuming overs aren't playing here). Of course, Tex had some chips to play with - 1.4mil, just behind Raymer at last chip count, so maybe he decided to cowboy up and gamble? Either way, that result had to be hard for Raymer to stomach.

[larrymcg421]

At the final table last year, Raymer lost a TON of chips really quickly. At least two times he re-raised someone to $500k, but had to fold after they moved all in on him. He rebounded from that pretty well, so I think he'll be alright.

[MJ4H]

I wouldnt try to analyze it too much, thats at least the 3rd COMPLETELY DIFFERENT way ive seen that hand described (as in different cards for barch and different cards on the board).

[larrymcg421]

Yeah Gutshot has a different description.

[MJ4H]

At the final table last year, Raymer lost a TON of chips really quickly. At least two times he re-raised someone to $500k, but had to fold after they moved all in on him. He rebounded from that pretty well, so I think he'll be alright.
Lets make sure we are being realistic here. Even if he did lose 500k very quickly, which I dont remember happening (watched the final table live on poker stars relay), he had over 8 million chips at that point. Here, he is down to 700,000, which I think is barely over average for the tournament, now.

[larrymcg421]

I know what you mean about the difference in stack sizes, but I'd argue that he'd be better prepared to deal with it as a returning WSOP champ than he was last year. Here are the hands from last year's WSOP:


3:38 PM
Hand #38, Arieh's button. Arieh opens for $175,000 from the button, Raymer raises to $500,000 from the button, and Arieh calls. The flop comes 8h 9s As. Raymer checks, and Arieh moves all in. Raymer removes his reptilian sunglasses, thinks, and folds. 3:47 PM
Hand #40, Raymer's button. Under the gun, Hughes opens for $175,000, Raymer reraises to $500,000, and Hughes moves all in over the top. There is a lengthy staredown between Raymer and Hughes, but Raymer eventually folds. Raymer has quickly lost a lot of chips.

[MJ4H]

I know what you mean about the difference in stack sizes, but I'd argue that he'd be better prepared to deal with it as a returning WSOP champ than he was last year. Here are the hands from last year's WSOP:

I wouldn't call 40 hands in very quickly, personally. Hadn't he already busted McClain and maybe even Anderson by then?

[cthomer5000]

And Raymer appears to have won two big hands and is now reportedbly back at 1.8 million chips (stealing this from 2+2, no idea about source)

[larrymcg421]

I wouldn't call 40 hands in very quickly, personally. Hadn't he already busted McClain and maybe even Anderson by then?
Yes he did, but what I meant was he lost $1 million in two out of three hands. I guess what I'm trying to say is he is no Olof Thorsen and wouldn't steam his way out after taking a hit like that.

[MJ4H]

Yes he did, but what I meant was he lost $1 million in two out of three hands. I guess what I'm trying to say is he is no Olof Thorsen and wouldn't steam his way out after taking a hit like that.
Point.

[larrymcg421]

My dream final table consisting of Raymer, Ivey, and Matusow is coming close to reality.

[larrymcg421]

Damn Raymer!

After a flop of As-Js-8c, Greg Raymer bets about $80,000, Tex Barch raises to about $220,000, and Raymer pushes all in. Word quickly spreads through the media and the fans that crowd-favorite Greg Raymer is all in, and a swarm quickly descends on the table. Just as quickly as everyone arrives, they soon become as motionless as Raymer himself, who calmly stares back at Barch through his signature reptilian sunglasses.

Barch, however, is in motion. He's adjusting his hat, counting out his chips, looking at Raymer's chips, and studying the defending World Champion as he contemplates whether or not to call. They are close enough in chips that this is a make-it-or-break-it hand for both of them. Looking at Raymer more closely, his breathing is normal, and he is so relaxed, at first glance you wouldn't think he was even involved in the hand.

Nobody calls the clock, even though it seems like an eternity. The break has started, and most of the players are already out of the tournament area. But nobody ever calls the clock.

After four agonizing minutes, Tex Barch folds, and Raymer's supporters (and there are plenty) breathe a huge sigh of relief.
I can't wait to see this hand on ESPN to see what they had.

[timmynausea]

That was pretty suspenseful just to read. I guess I'm pulling for Raymer at this point. I wouldn't mind seeing Ivey win, but I like Raymer more.

[timmynausea]

Here are the chip counts from the end of the day. It's hard to believe it's already down to 58. Raymer hurt himself a bit at the end of the day.


1 Tim Phan $ 3,244,000
2 Mike Matusow $ 2,561,000
3 Farzad Bonyadi $ 2,402,000
4 Steve Danaman $ 2,143,000
5 Phil Ivey $ 2,027,000
6 Tex Barch $ 2,025,000
7 Tiffany Williamson $ 1,992,000
8 Johnny Howard $ 1,806,000
9 Scott Lazar $ 1,629,000
10 Tuan Vu $ 1,571,000
11 Gregory Rice $ 1,414,000
12 Raymi Sanchesz Thorn $ 1,288,000
13 Lee Watkinson $ 1,221,000
14 Tom Sartori $ 1,208,000
15 Daniel Bergsdorf $ 1,144,000
16 Brad Koundracki $ 1,136,000
17 Minh Ly $ 1,102,000
18 Terry Burt $ 1,080,000
19 Steve Marx $ 1,042,000
20 Per Hildebrand $ 1,017,000
21 Michael Kessler $ 986,000
22 Shahram $ 983,000
23 Patrick Hayden $ 972,000
24 Dustin "Neverwin" Woolf $ 968,000
25 John Juanda $ 841,000
26 Joseph Hachem $ 814,000
27 Nick Givson $ 811,000
28 John McGrane $ 780,880
29 Aaron Kanter $ 778,000
30 Ayhan Alsancak $ 775,000
31 Greg "Fossil Man" Raymer $ 766,000
32 Radu Butan $ 762,000
33 Bing Wang $ 739,000
34 Oskar Silow $ 720,000
35 Adam Friedman $ 719,000
36 James Butt $ 716,000
37 Russell "The Muscle" Salzer $ 710,000
38 Bryant King $ 702,000
39 Frankling Caldwell $ 690,000
40 Yakov Hirsch $ 658,000
41 Joe Connor $ 641,000
42 Mark Forrester $ 628,000
43 Karlo Lopez $ 607,000
44 Joe Stillman $ 584,000
45 Kevin Kaikko $ 571,000
46 Tony Abesamis $ 513,000
47 Kenna James $ 510,000
48 Hung La $ 505,000
49 David Richardson $ 501,000
50 Roland Israelashvici $ 469,000
51 Francis W O'Brien $ 423,000
52 Bernard Lee $ 379,000
53 Andrew Black $ 371,000
54 Conor Tate $ 368,000
55 Derek Dix $ 202,000
56 Rod Pardey Jr. $ 187,000
57 Larry Prugh $ 166,000
58 Jarl Lindholt $ 101,000

[SirFozzie]

Geeez.. today's going to be short, they were only going to play down to 27

[cthomer5000]

Geeez.. today's going to be short, they were only going to play down to 27
Seems to me like they should plow down to the final table, give those dudes a day off, then finsih it off.

The planning has been suspect in a few areas this year... like stopping 7 players short of the money that one day - why not play down to the money the day before, then start up the next day with everyone in the money?

[kcchief19]

Seems to me like they should plow down to the final table, give those dudes a day off, then finsih it off.

The planning has been suspect in a few areas this year... like stopping 7 players short of the money that one day - why not play down to the money the day before, then start up the next day with everyone in the money? They pretty much had to. They played for 15 hours at the point and I think it took almost another two-plus hours to eliminate those seven players ... they would have been playing for almost 18 hours straight, and the players would have hated that even more.

The field has whittled down faster than they expected. They are apparently still sticking to the original schedule of playing down to 27 today before moving to Binion's. There were rumors they would play down to the final table today and take Thursday off so ESPN would have more time to set up, but that has been denied repeatedly by the tourney officials.

[kcchief19]

No ESPN doesn't get to choose the table seating. It's completely random. But they know the table seatings ahead of time and get to pick the feature table accordingly. ESPN indeed gets to pick the table it wants of all the available tables to put on air. In theory those tables are assigned randomly, but the featured table is treated somewhat differently than the other tables in that they shift players much less frequently and don't replace eliminated players as frequently to keep play going. The ESPN tables run a bit behind the rest of the field because it takes time to set up and mic everyone, so it takes longer to play the tables and they have a different level clock.

That said, I'm not entirely convinced that the table settings at the WSOP are completely random. I'm not indulging in any conspiracy theories, but I'm not convinced that it's completely random.

Clearly Matusow has emerged as ESPN darling. He's been at the featured table almost exclusively the last two days. The media can't get close enough to hear what's being said, and all the audio goes straight to ESPN, but apparently he's been quite the character.

[Chubby]

but why feature him if we don't want swearing? think of the children!!!

[Comey]

ESPN indeed gets to pick the table it wants of all the available tables to put on air. In theory those tables are assigned randomly, but the featured table is treated somewhat differently than the other tables in that they shift players much less frequently and don't replace eliminated players as frequently to keep play going. The ESPN tables run a bit behind the rest of the field because it takes time to set up and mic everyone, so it takes longer to play the tables and they have a different level clock.

That said, I'm not entirely convinced that the table settings at the WSOP are completely random. I'm not indulging in any conspiracy theories, but I'm not convinced that it's completely random.

Clearly Matusow has emerged as ESPN darling. He's been at the featured table almost exclusively the last two days. The media can't get close enough to hear what's being said, and all the audio goes straight to ESPN, but apparently he's been quite the character.
There was a table that had Lederer, Ivey, Juanda, CK Hua, and a couple big stacks (I believe). That was not a featured table, but Howard Lederer told CardPlayer that an ESPN person told him that if the table werent' scheduled to be broken down next, it would've been moved to the featured table.

Take that for what you will. CardPlayer has stated that ESPN has no say in who goes where. I used to hold the same belief as you, but I no longer do.

[Mr. Wednesday]

The way I read that, ESPN thought that the table was compelling enough that, if it had been going to stay together, they would have turned it into the feature table. That is, they don't have a say in who winds up together at a table, but they have control over which table they decide to feature.

[Maple Leafs]

FossilMan showed up at the 2+2 boards to explain his version of the incident in which he threatened to kill a fan.

My wife was sitting in the press area, where only press and staff are allowed. She got special dispensation from the staff to be there. Some guy comes in who is not allowed, sits next to her, and starts asking her all about our daughter. He wants to know where she is, who's watching her now, what she looks like, and my wife is totally freaking out from his questions and attitude. She asks to have him removed, and tells me what was going on. I look at him on the rail a minute later, and he's pointing at her, pointing at me, talking to people in the crowd, and has a psycho-mad look on his face.

I stand up and tell him to watch himself. He has an even angrier look on his facee, and yells out that he was just asking about my daughter. My immediate reaction, based upon his demeanor and attitude is that he really is a threat. I told him that if he messed with my daugher or family, I would kill him. I shouted all this across a 20 foot gap, and yes, everyone could here it, and it happened.

And I wasn't lying. If anybody messes with my family, I'm going to kill them as certainly as I possibly can.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Mr. Wednesday]

Haven't seen it mentioned... Jay Lovinger has his WSOP diary up on ESPN.com.

[Comey]

The way I read that, ESPN thought that the table was compelling enough that, if it had been going to stay together, they would have turned it into the feature table. That is, they don't have a say in who winds up together at a table, but they have control over which table they decide to feature.
Is there an echo? ;)

[Mr. Wednesday]

I should have read a little more carefully. I misread your conclusion.

[Comey]

That's fine. I'm paranoid that nobody ever reads anything I write, so I had to respond. ;)

[Huckleberry]

Interesting story on Raymer. If that guy does mess with his daughter and Raymer kills him, I'd like to be on the jury.

[kcchief19]

Interesting story on Raymer. If that guy does mess with his daughter and Raymer kills him, I'd like to be on the jury. If he wore the glasses at any point during the trial, I'd convict him in a second.

[QuikSand]

One of the chip leaders coming into today lives just a few miles away from me:

Steve Danaman Severn, MD $2,143,000 118 3


I don't recognize the name, but there are a number of local players whom I have met and played with without really getting to know them. It's certainly possible that this guy is among them. You can't swing a dead cat in my local game without smacking a guy who goes by "Steve."

If he's on TV and is wearing a "Circle Jerks" baseball cap, then I know who he is for sure.

[timmynausea]

As in the punk band?

[QuikSand]

As in the punk band?

Yes.

[MJ4H]

Good start for Raymer today.

back over a million after winning a 400k pot with QQ vs 99

[Suicane75]

Man, ESPN should really show this live. This is depressing.

[SirFozzie]

Card Player will be doing live audio of the final table, at least.. and I know PokerTrails will be doing a hand by hand transcription (no cameras of course)

Live Poker's coming to Fox again, as they will be airing the final table of a poker tournament live coming up in a month or so (forget the name, but it will be the first final table live in Las Vegas (the last one was at Turning Stone)

[SirFozzie]

And if the gamble bug gets any bigger.. we WILL have a Gambling Network or a Poker Network

[Suicane75]

Card Player will be doing live audio of the final table, at least..
Link to the site?

[SirFozzie]

www.cardplayer.com

[MJ4H]

The preflop details are unclear, but there were some bets and possibly a raise, when Greg Raymer went all in. It was folded around to Tiffany Williamson, who went into deep thought for many minutes to contemplate the call. Word slowly spread around the room that Greg Raymer was all in at the TV table, and the crowd at the ESPN stage quickly grew to overflow capacity. The buzz in the air was spine-tingling.


Tiffany Williamson was playing with her chips, and several times she would move a stack around, and those of us in the press thought she had called. As a relative rookie, she may not be familiar with the rules about chip movement, because there appeared to be forward motion. But nobody called it on her.


The media was talking about the hand, wondering what she was on, and everyone predicted a fold. She was faced with a similar big call earlier today, and after thinking for about ten minutes, she folded that hand.


This time, she calls.


Greg Raymer casually flips over pocket kings (Kc-Kd), and Tiffany Williamson shows Ac-Jd. The crowd isstunned, expecting her to have a stronger hand than that. But she does have an ace, and Raymer hasn't won the hand yet. Tension at the ESPN stage is at its highest level of the tournament so far. Two of the biggest crowd favorites are clashing head-to-head in a huge pot.


The flop is slowly revealed (almost card by card) to be 6s-6d-2d, and the crowd lets out a tentative sigh, unclear who they are rooting for here. The turn card is the 4c, and Williamson has to catch an ace on the last card to eliminate the defending World Series champion.


The river card is the 9c.


Greg Raymer has doubled up through Tiffany Williamson, and the cheers from the crowd imply they'd rather see a repeat champion than another "tournament rookie coming out of nowhere" story. Regardless, Tiffany Williamson still has enough chips to be comfortable.

[larrymcg421]

Yeah that was a big hand. Tiffany has been playing fast and loose, completely on tilt, all day. She has been lucky enough to build a big stack, allowing her to do that. She has since doubled up after that hand.

[larrymcg421]

I have a new favorite player in the tourney, and he's an Irishman too!

Bing Wang was apparently confused following the last level of play. The break was scheduled to be 30 minutes, but Wang thought that it was a longer break for dinner. An easy mistake to make, considering a dinner break was announced, but for a different event also going on in the Amazon room. Wang has not returned to his seat and the tournament directors have made the decision to blind him off until he returns. The player sitting two spots to his right, Andy Black doesn't think that is fair. As a result, Black has asked the tournament directors to stop play until he returns. The ruling stands and Wang's chips are being blinded off. In an effort to help Wang out, Black is stalling and taking a very long time to do anything. Andy Black is visibly upset with what is taking place, and it appears that he is shedding a few tears.

[MJ4H]

Yeah that was a big hand. Tiffany has been playing fast and loose, completely on tilt, all day. She has been lucky enough to build a big stack, allowing her to do that. She has since doubled up after that hand.
i dont think shes been on tilt. i just think she's not very good. she has badly misplayed a large number of hands.

[cthomer5000]

I have a new favorite player in the tourney, and he's an Irishman too!
I respect the effort... but crying over the situation? http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif

[larrymcg421]

Well I think the nerves are a little high right now. Many of these people playing for hgiher stakes than they've ever dreamed of. Crying may some weird, but I think he was extremely upset that a shortstacked guy was getting screwed over an honest mistake.

[larrymcg421]

Cardplayer reporting Juanda is out.

[SirFozzie]

Early Night, they are now down to 27, and 12:40 AM Eastern, Mike Matusow knocked out Gregory Rice to finish play for the day.

[Lathum]

I want a Raymer-Matusow final so bad.

[k0ruptr]

this has been a great world series so far i must say.

[henry296]

One of the chip leaders coming into today lives just a few miles away from me:

Steve Danaman Severn, MD $2,143,000 118 3


I don't recognize the name, but there are a number of local players whom I have met and played with without really getting to know them. It's certainly possible that this guy is among them. You can't swing a dead cat in my local game without smacking a guy who goes by "Steve."

If he's on TV and is wearing a "Circle Jerks" baseball cap, then I know who he is for sure.

There is an article on the Baltimore Sun this morning on Steve. The picture in the paper shows him with a visor and the name of an environmental company. It mentions another fried Steve Ditzel who plays with him in a Tuesday night poker game. Would this be someone you know?

Todd

[QuikSand]

There is an article on the Baltimore Sun this morning on Steve. The picture in the paper shows him with a visor and the name of an environmental company. It mentions another fried Steve Ditzel who plays with him in a Tuesday night poker game. Would this be someone you know?

Todd

I will have to get the paper edition, there's no pic online (where I usually read the Sun).

Doesn't sound like anyone I know, though.

[Simms]

Centrebet.com published their updated odds last night, and either Dannenmann is a pretty highly regarded pro, or he has impressed the hell out of some bookies:

2005 WSOP Winner:
3-1 Phil Ivey
5-1 Greg Raymer
6-1 Steve Dannenmann
6-1 Mike Matusow
10-1 Tex Barch
10-1 Andrew Black
15-1 Daniel Bergsdorf
15-1 Joe Hachem
15-1 Michael Kessler
15-1 Scott Lazar
20-1 Aaron Kanter
20-1 Minh Ly
20-1 Tim Phan
20-1 Tommy Vu
25-1 Bryant King
25-1 Brad Kondracki
25-1 Oskar Silow
25-1 Connor Tate
40-1 Joe Connor
40-1 Bernard Lee
40-1 Tom Sartori
50-1 Johnny Howard
50-1 Tiffany Williamson
80-1 Per Hildebrand
80-1 John McGrane
100-1 Shawn Sheikhan
150-1 Ayhan Alsancak

[QuikSand]

...either Dannenmann is a pretty highly regarded pro, or he has impressed the hell out of some bookies:[/i][/i]

I wonder how tightly those odds (perhaps except Ivey) correspond to the current chip counts.

Dannenman is a self-confessed poor player, and not a pro by any stretch. I'm guessing he's short odds just because he has chips.

[QuikSand]

Looks like the odds on Dannenman are essentially connected to his chip count:

from gutshot.com:

- - - - -

Over night chip leaders...

Phil Ivey $4,600,000 118 1
Mike Matusow $4,500,000 117 7
Steve Dannenmann $4,150,000 118 3
Tex Barch $3,900,000 117 9
Greg Raymer $3,500,000 0 5
Scott Lazar $2,900,000 129 6
Joe Hachem $2,700,000 0 9
Michael Kessler $2,700,000 0 2
Daniel Bergsdorf $2,500,000 118 2
Andrew Black $2,350,000 117 2
Aaron Kanter $2,200,000 117 5
Tim Phan $2,200,000 0 6
Tommy Vu $2,000,000 129 5
Minh Ly $1,800,000 118 7
Brad Kondracki $1,500,000 117 8
Bryant King $1,500,000 129 3
Connor Tate $1,300,000 129 1
Oskar Silow $1,300,000 118 6
Joe Connor $1,000,000 118 8
Tiffany Williamson $1,000,000 0 4
Bernard Lee $950,000 129 7
Tom Sartori $950,000 0 3
Johnny Howard $800,000 118 9
John McGrane $600,000 129 4
Per Hildebrand $550,000 129 2
Shawn Sheikhan $400,000 0 8
Ayhan Alsancak $250,000 117 3

- - -

My read here is that they essentially started with the chip stacks, rounded down the odds on Ivey and Raymer because they are established winners, perhaps rounded up the odds on Matusow because he is an established catastrophe waiting to happen, and left everyone else in order, more or less.

Based on what I saw from Minh Ly earlier in these events, maybe he's not getting enough credit in that regard.

[cartman]

What are the blinds going into the start of today's play?

[Simms]

The chip counts I'm getting (which I'm told are "official", fwiw), are a little different than gutshot's (not that I'm arguing your point, Quik :) ):

1. Mike Matusow (Las Vegas, NV) $5.14M
2. Phil Ivey (Las Vegas, NV) $4.635M
3. Steven Dannenmann (Severn, MD) $4.3M
4. Tex Barch (McKinney, TX) $3.9M
5. Greg "Fossil Man" Raymer (Stonington, CT) $3.84
6. Brad Koudrachi (Kingston, PA) $3.16M
7. Joseph Hachem (Melbourne, Australia $3.125M
8. Scott Lazar (Studio City, CA) $3.025M
9. Michael Kessler (Spotsylvania, VA) $2.7M
10. Daniel Bergsdorf (Umea, Sweden) $2.55M

11. Andrew Black (Dublin, Ireland) $2.09M
12. Minh Ly (Las Vegas, NV) $2.050M
13. Aaron Kanter (Lodi) $1.925M
14. Tuan Vu (Las Vegas, NV) $1.87M
15. Tim Phan (Westminster) $1.575M
16. Oskar Silow (Goteborg, Sweden) $1.44M
17. Bryant King Liberty Lake $1.44M
18. Conor Tate (Bury, Ireland) $1.265M
19. Tiffany Williamsen London, UK $1.125M
20. Joe Connor Atlanta, GA $1.065M

21. Tom Sartorv (Buffalo, NY) $805K
22. Johnny Howard (Lexington Park, MD) $730K
23. Bernard Lee (Wayland, MA) $710K
24. Per Hildebrand (Stockholm, Sweden) $645K
25. John McGrane (London, UK) $575K
26. Shahram Shublem (Las Vegas, NV) $310K
27. Ayhan Alsancak (Goteborg, Sweden) $225K

For cartman: They're about an hour into level 26: $5k antes, $20k/40k blinds. Average stack is $2.081 million.

[kcchief19]

A final table with Ivey, Matusow and Raymer would be a fun table to watch 300 or 400 times on ESPN.

[cartman]

For cartman: They're about an hour into level 26: $5k antes, $20k/40k blinds. Average stack is $2.081 million.

Thanks. So the short stacks need to make some moves to last much longer than the first hour of play today.

[Comey]

The chip stacks Simms gets add up, and according to CardPlayer, are accurate from last night (for the most part).

Gutshot's only add up to 51 million.

[QuikSand]

I think Raymer's affirmation is sealed at this point. Whether he's motivated by this or not, his very strong finish following the win last year is going to rate among the very most impressive achievements in poker history.

[John Galt]

is going to rate among the very most impressive achievements

Look's like it is time for Big Blue's annual check-up. Something is definitely out of sorts.

[QuikSand]

*sigh*

[John Galt]

*sigh*

Obviously, Big Blue is not looking forward to the intrusive lube job. :p

[Honolulu Blue]

From cardplayer.com:

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 17:10:00
Title: Greg Raymer Eliminated in 25th Place ($304,680)
Log:
Hand 23 - Andrew Black has the button in seat 8, Alsancak raises, and Raymer calls from the big blind. The flop comes Kh-Kc-7c, Raymer moves all in, and Alsancak calls. Raymer shows Ac-9h, and Alsancak has pocket fives (5d-5c). Raymer needs to catch a nine, an ace, or running clubs to stay alive. The turn card is the Kd, and Raymer needs to catch a seven, a nine, a king, or an ace to stay alive. The river card is the 2s, and Greg Raymer is eliminated in 25th place, earning $304,680.

The entire crowd of spectators, media, and even members of the ESPN crew give Raymer a standing ovation as he is eliminated in his quest to repeat as the World Series of Poker champion.

And this is the hand where he lost most of his stack:

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 16:44:00
Title: Aaron Kanter Doubles Up Through Greg Raymer at the Featured Table
Log:
Hand 20 - Ayhan Alsancak has the button in seat 5, Raymer raises, and Kanter calls. The flop comes 6c-5d-3h, and there's a bet and a call. The turn card is the 7h, Kanter bets $600,000, and the two players are quickly all in. Raymer shows pocket kings (Kd-Kh), and Kanter has Qh-Jh. Kanter has a flush draw, and needs to catch a heart to win the pot. The river card is the 2h, and Kanter makes his flush to double up through Greg Raymer.

Kanter's supporters are ecstatic, and cheering loudly, but the rest of the room is nearly silent as crowd-favorite Greg Raymer loses a huge pot. You can distinctly hear the cheers, but the silence in the rest of the room is almost
overpowering. Aaron Kanter now has somewhere between $3.5 and $4 million, while Greg Raymer is crippled down to about $400,000.

So close, and yet so far. Alas. :(

[cthomer5000]

Still, a profit of ~ $290,000 ain't bad for less than a week of work.

[Leonidas]

For the more astute, poker following folks here, where the hell has Raymer been since last year? I thought he was a fluke after last season, but now he's back in the mix again I have to change that opinion and admit the guy is great, but in the meantime where's he been?

And I am really bummed Dan Harrington isn't around to go for a 3rd straight final.

[cthomer5000]

For the more astute, poker following folks here, where the hell has Raymer been since last year? I thought he was a fluke after last season, but now he's back in the mix again I have to change that opinion and admit the guy is great, but in the meantime where's he been?

And I am really bummed Dan Harrington isn't around to go for a 3rd straight final.
Raymer is much more an internet than live player, as far as I know.

[Chubby]

Raymer is much more an internet than live player, as far as I know.
I believe that is true now. I know the whole fossilman thing started when he started playing brick and mortar (they told the story during last year's WSOP) but I think he mostly plays online at the site he does ads for (stars?)

[digamma]

Ivey out.

[Suicane75]

Damnit

[digamma]

Down to ten. They'll play to eliminate one more tonight and then tomorrow's final table will be set. Matusow is still alive.

[Suicane75]

Damn man, i can't go to sleep till this is done. I'm rooting for The Mouth now.

[timmynausea]

I can't decide who the hell to root for.

[larrymcg421]

I'm rooting for Black because his actions to protect another player that had been screwed earlier. Plus, he's an Irishman. I hope Matusow goes far because he makes for good TV.

A shortstack just doubled up via a 2 outer ont he river. ESPN was visibly unhappy. Will make for great TV but less sleep.

[Suicane75]

Matusow is effin funny.