PING: Anyone who has had knee pain (water on the knee)

[oliegirl]

I fell about 2 1/2 weeks ago (tripped over the dog), the next day my knee was very sore and a little swollen, but the pain went away within 24 hours and was replaced by wrist pain - which I am now in PT for. Anyway, Friday my knee started hurting again - it's my left knee and the pain is all on the inside (left) of the knee - it's swollen and is switching from a sharp, stabbing pain when I walk/limp/bend it to a dull throbbing pain when I am laying with it propped on pillows. I don't remember anything in the past couple days which would explain the sudden onset of pain, but find it hard to believe it would be fine for 2 weeks and then start hurting. Does anyone know about knee pain and have any ideas? I really don't want to go to the dr. for this if it's something that will go away on it's own in another day or two if I stay off of it.

[bryce]

I've torn my left ACL and dislocated my right kneecap. I'm from the same camp of avoiding doctors, to the tune of actually waiting two months after I tore my ACL before actually visiting a dr to see what was wrong. (I was in denial whenever I would just be walking around normally and all of a sudden my knee would give out as if I stepped in a hole, and my whole body collapsed - if you have this sympton, see a dr immediately - this is not good, not good at all...) But after the left ACL injury, when I hurt my right knee, I went to the dr. ASAP, and that turned out to 'just' be a dislocated kneecap.

My advise? If you have insurance and can afford to take time away from work/school/whatever - just go to the doctor and get it checked out - if for nothing else than for peace of mind, and that's huge in and of itself...

I say this because my knee did not swell at all when the ACL tore, and only slightly when the kneecap popped out of place; and, in fact, the dislocation hurt much worse than the ACL, despite the ACL needing surgery and the dislocation healing on its own. Pain and/or swollenness may not tell the full story, in other words...

Edit - I just remembered that I work with a woman who tripped over her cat, actually, and had knee pain - turned out she tore the meniscus or cartilage or something, I can't remember exactly, and she needed surgery. Not quite as major as ligament surgery, but she was still out a week or so.

Having said all that, it's probably nothing and will be fine in a couple days, to be honest... :) Good luck, though!

[TargetPractice6]

bryce, can you discribe what dislocating your knee cap is like? I have this new problem where sometimes if I move or twist it wrong it with make a loud pop and hurt very badly. Sometimes its even sore for up to a week after. A physical therapist suggested that I might be dislocating my knee cap, but I'm not sure how that would happen. Is it the time of injury that is prone to reinjury? I'm just wondering because I would like it to stop...

[oliegirl]

I've torn my left ACL and dislocated my right kneecap. I'm from the same camp of avoiding doctors, to the tune of actually waiting two months after I tore my ACL before actually visiting a dr to see what was wrong. (I was in denial whenever I would just be walking around normally and all of a sudden my knee would give out as if I stepped in a hole, and my whole body collapsed - if you have this sympton, see a dr immediately - this is not good, not good at all...) But after the left ACL injury, when I hurt my right knee, I went to the dr. ASAP, and that turned out to 'just' be a dislocated kneecap.

My advise? If you have insurance and can afford to take time away from work/school/whatever - just go to the doctor and get it checked out - if for nothing else than for peace of mind, and that's huge in and of itself...

I say this because my knee did not swell at all when the ACL tore, and only slightly when the kneecap popped out of place; and, in fact, the dislocation hurt much worse than the ACL, despite the ACL needing surgery and the dislocation healing on its own. Pain and/or swollenness may not tell the full story, in other words...

Edit - I just remembered that I work with a woman who tripped over her cat, actually, and had knee pain - turned out she tore the meniscus or cartilage or something, I can't remember exactly, and she needed surgery. Not quite as major as ligament surgery, but she was still out a week or so.

Having said all that, it's probably nothing and will be fine in a couple days, to be honest... :) Good luck, though!

It doesn't feel weak - just very sore. Whatever runs up the inside of the kneecap is swollen and tender to the touch...and when I do walk on it, my knee pops alot. It's better today than it was Friday, so I'll probably wait it out and see if it gets progressively better during the week...if it's still hurting Thursday or Friday, I'll go to the dr. I just hate to go and have him think I am an accident prone hypochondriac and then laugh when I leave his office!

[bryce]

bryce, can you discribe what dislocating your knee cap is like? I have this new problem where sometimes if I move or twist it wrong it with make a loud pop and hurt very badly. Sometimes its even sore for up to a week after. A physical therapist suggested that I might be dislocating my knee cap, but I'm not sure how that would happen. Is it the time of injury that is prone to reinjury? I'm just wondering because I would like it to stop...

I've only dislocated the kneecap once, and when I did, it was a noticeable pop and sudden loss of all strength - I fell to the ground and writhed around in agony for awhile. It hurt much worse than when I tore my ACL, actually, but it obviously healed much quicker.

It tends to be hereditary, I think. My sister has had hers pop out several times - same symptons - just a sudden pop, loss of all strength and support, and severe pain, but give it a week or so, and it will gradually get better.

And, yes, it is definitely prone to re-injury, as all joint problems are. With dislocations (I've separated my shoulder, also, which is when I heard these stats that follow), there's generally a 50% chance of re-dislocating, and then once you do it twice, there's a 90% chance of it re-occuring over and over and over - this is when you need surgery, especially if you find this happening during your sleep, for instance... (Similarly, once you tear an ACL once, there's a 50% chance of either tearing it again, or even tearing the other one, mainly b/c it's a sign of weak joints.)

edited for typo

[duckman]

It doesn't feel weak - just very sore. Whatever runs up the inside of the kneecap is swollen and tender to the touch...and when I do walk on it, my knee pops alot. It's better today than it was Friday, so I'll probably wait it out and see if it gets progressively better during the week...if it's still hurting Thursday or Friday, I'll go to the dr. I just hate to go and have him think I am an accident prone hypochondriac and then laugh when I leave his office!
Take some anti-inflammatory medicine and rest your leg for a few days. If you continue to feel the discomfort after that, I would see a doctor for an examination. It's sounds like a strained MCL. If it was torned, you would have some stability problems, but it sounds like you don't.

[bryce]

It doesn't feel weak - just very sore. Whatever runs up the inside of the kneecap is swollen and tender to the touch...and when I do walk on it, my knee pops alot. It's better today than it was Friday, so I'll probably wait it out and see if it gets progressively better during the week...if it's still hurting Thursday or Friday, I'll go to the dr. I just hate to go and have him think I am an accident prone hypochondriac and then laugh when I leave his office!

I smell what you're cooking, but trust me, no doctor is laughing at you - if anything, they are thanking you for the payday! Nah, in all seriousness, I hate to feel like the doctor may think I'm a whimp, too, but joints aren't anything to mess with, that much I've learned. Like I mentioned, my torn ACL didn't swell and didn't pop at all like you often hear about, but when I finally did go see the dr, he said, 'Why didn't you come to me right after it happened - if you did, by now you'd be in PT on the road to recovery.' They've seen it all, and they want to help. Get it checked out if it's bothering you...

[kcchief19]

It doesn't feel weak - just very sore. Whatever runs up the inside of the kneecap is swollen and tender to the touch...and when I do walk on it, my knee pops alot. It's better today than it was Friday, so I'll probably wait it out and see if it gets progressively better during the week...if it's still hurting Thursday or Friday, I'll go to the dr. I just hate to go and have him think I am an accident prone hypochondriac and then laugh when I leave his office! Popping a lot is a bad sign. Popping means something -- bone, ligament or tendon -- is not where it's supposed to be. If it is an injury that keeps you off your feet and isn't significantly better in a day or two or it reoccurs (sounds like you're now in that category), I'd see the doctor.

It may very well be a strain, but the bigger concern is a partial tear. Both can improve with rest, but the concern with a partial tear is that if is a ligament or a tendon you could rupture it completely which you don't want to do -- trust me. I'm 18 months out of a rupture patella tendon and I'm still not 100 percent. I got it from slipping on the ice, although the reason I ruptured it was that I already had a partial torn tendon and the fall just ripped it completely.

[TargetPractice6]

I've only dislocated the kneecap once, and when I did, it was a noticeable pop and sudden loss of all strength - I fell to the ground and writhed around in agony for awhile. It hurt much worse than when I tore my ACL, actually, but it obviously healed much quicker.

It tends to be hereditary, I think. My sister has had hers pop out several times - same symptons - just a sudden pop, loss of all strength and support, and severe pain, but give it a week or so, and it will gradually get better.

And, yes, it is definitely prone to re-injury, as all joint problems are. With dislocations (I've separated my shoulder, also, which is when I heard these stats that follow), there's generally a 50% chance of re-dislocating, and then once you do it twice, there's a 90% chance of it re-occuring over and over and over - this is when you need surgery, especially if you find this happening during your sleep, for instance... (Similarly, once you tear an ACL once, there's a 50% chance of either tearing it again, or even tearing the other one, mainly b/c it's a sign of weak joints.)

edited for typoThat's exactly what happens to me. Once it happens I lose all support on that leg. Also it has never happened during sleep but it has happen when rolling over in bed and while getting in my car. However both of those were just after I had injured it in a more active way (running or swinging a baseball bat). I guess I might need to get it checked out again. Is there anyway I can check after it happens to see if it is the knee cap? Will anything feel lose or such?

[bryce]

That's exactly what happens to me. Once it happens I lose all support on that leg. Also it has never happened during sleep but it has happen when rolling over in bed and while getting in my car. However both of those were just after I had injured it in a more active way (running or swinging a baseball bat). I guess I might need to get it checked out again. Is there anyway I can check after it happens to see if it is the knee cap? Will anything feel lose or such?

Yea, I'd get it checked out - it sounds like it's popping in and out on you - that's what mine did - when that happens, there really isn't anything to check by yourself, b/c it's popping out, but then popping right back into place - in other words, you won't be able to feel it out of place because the whole in-and-out process happens so fast. Whereas with a shoulder separation, they manually tug at your joint to pop it back in its socket (at least they did with mine), a kneecap just slides in and out on its own. Mine did swell a bit, though, and was very difficult to walk on (and especially difficult to bend) after it happened. I honestly don't know what the solution is, and I'm no doctor, so I could be way off - I'm but a simple victim of several such joint injuries, but I can relate. Good luck, though!

[JeeberD]

torned

Damn Okies...

[duckman]

Damn Okies...
Son of a bitch! :mad:

[Mr. Wednesday]

It doesn't feel weak - just very sore. Whatever runs up the inside of the kneecap is swollen and tender to the touch...and when I do walk on it, my knee pops alot. It's better today than it was Friday, so I'll probably wait it out and see if it gets progressively better during the week...if it's still hurting Thursday or Friday, I'll go to the dr. I just hate to go and have him think I am an accident prone hypochondriac and then laugh when I leave his office!I've hurt something in the general area of the inside of my knee, MCL I suspect. It wasn't as bad as what you're reporting (I only felt it when I ran or climbed stairs), and it still took the better part of three months before it was feeling normal again. I would ice it, but I never saw a dr. about it.

[Suicane75]

Ever had a kneecap pop out that didnt go right back in? And then touched your knee, and there aint nothing there, and the kneecap is sitting off to the side? Good times.

[oliegirl]

I've hurt something in the general area of the inside of my knee, MCL I suspect. It wasn't as bad as what you're reporting (I only felt it when I ran or climbed stairs), and it still took the better part of three months before it was feeling normal again. I would ice it, but I never saw a dr. about it.

It's not as bad this morning, still very sore and tender, but now the muscle/tendon that runs right down the back of my leg and directly behind my knee is reall sore and it feels like it shrunk about 3 inches overnight! It's pulling every time I take a step and it feels like I can't fully extend my leg...very weird.

[oliegirl]

BUMP:

I went to the dr. on Tuesday - they ran tests and just called with the results, I have water on my knee. They scheduled an appt. for me this afternoon with an orthopedist, it kind of worries me that they made the appt...how big of a deal is this? And how painful?

[MacroGuru]

BUMP:

I went to the dr. on Tuesday - they ran tests and just called with the results, I have water on my knee. They scheduled an appt. for me this afternoon with an orthopedist, it kind of worries me that they made the appt...how big of a deal is this? And how painful?
It all depends...Water on the knee can be a couple of things, one of them being prepatellar bursitis. This is the sac of fluid around the joint swelling and producing a larger amount of fluid than normal.

I have bursitis on the knee due to playing as a catcher all the way up into high school as well as playing football. For me, it's more of an arthritic thing than anything else.

An ortho will be able to help you determine a course of treatment as well as find out if there is more to it than just the water on the knee.

For me, I have to rest the knee when it flares up...other than that, nothing else helps...

Good Luck

[Easy Mac]

Similar thing happened to me a few months ago. I was carrying a close basket down the stairs outside of my girlfriend's house after doing laundry. All of a sudden I felt my knee pop and it had a very sharp pain just below the kneecap. I didn't fall, but it definitely hurt to walk. It felt like that for about a week, but then it just went away. A week or 2 later, it came back out of nowhere. I never went to the doctor, but it was swollen and hurt constantly. My girlfriend is in PT school, so she did a few tests and didn't see anything too wrong. She said it was probably what they all theater knee or something like that. Basically, my knees always feel like how it feels after being in a cramped movie theater, they need to crack and pop. It eventually can lead to something in my knee wearing away, but its not overly serious. I just can't stay cramped up in a small space for too long. I also had a tendon or ligament or something rubbing the wrong way on the side of my knee and that wasn't good, but its always done that. I haven't felt any pain in my knee for a while now. Everything is back to normal.

[sportsfan13]

Interesting. I was going to say it was a degenerated miniscus, because that's what I've been dealing with since softball in high school. I had to get an MRI done to figure that out though. It basically means that my miniscus is falling apart, but not torn. I actually don't have any feeling in my skin over the area, because I tore it up sliding. Keep up on it. If you do the exercises right, it shouldn't be a problem.

[MrBug708]

Water on the Knee?

Operation!

[oliegirl]

Well, after an interesting visit to the Orthopedist I have learned the following:

I have laterally tilted kneecaps - instead of sitting straight on top of the thigh/shin bone joint, they lean toward the "outside" of the knee. This is a genetic condition...thanks people who conceived me and gave me DNA.

At some point in the future I will develop arthritis in my knees.

I have bone spurs on both kneecaps from the above mentioned condition, which at some point will become painful (doc was surprised they had not started causing pain yet) and have to have orthoscopic surgery to remove them.

On my right knee, the non painful one, there is lots of space between the back of the kneecap and the top of the thigh/shin joint. On my left knee, there is none. The cells that are in the sac around the joint leaked out and have "jelled" so she can't draw the fluid out...took her 2 stabs with the biggest needle I have ever seen to make that decision. Then she stabbed me again with a shot of cortizone, which hurt like a MF'er. But that should help with the swelling and allow the "jelly" to start breaking down and be re-absorbed into the joint sack.

All in all, not a great visit...I get 3 weeks of PT, in addition to the 2 weeks of wrist PT I have left...basically when it comes to my knees, I am screwed. Good news is I get 3 more weeks of Celebrex, which I am convinced is the best drug in the world.

[oliegirl]

Water on the Knee?

Operation!


I might just put you on permanent ignore for that comment!!!! :mad:

[jbmagic]

i gave my girlfriend Knee pads for Xmas :)

she is pain free when going down :)

[oliegirl]

You are too thoughtful!

Note to radii: if you ever need gift ideas for me, do NOT ask jbmagic for input!!!! :)

[jbmagic]

You are too thoughtful!

Note to radii: if you ever need gift ideas for me, do NOT ask jbmagic for input!!!! :)



you have a dirty mind :)

i was talking about gardening and pulling weeds on the ground. :)

[oliegirl]

you have a dirty mind :)

i was talking about gardening and pulling weeds on the ground. :)


Yeah, sure you were.

[Yellow5]

Then she stabbed me again with a shot of cortizone, which hurt like a MF'er. But that should help with the swelling and allow the "jelly" to start breaking down and be re-absorbed into the joint sack.

I can relate to the pain with this. Years ago I had to have my right knee drained a couple of times and each time they also gave me a cortizone shot. It feels like they are shooting lava into your knee!

[sterlingice]

I might just put you on permanent ignore for that comment!!!! :mad:
I, on the other hand, missed it and love the reference by the soon-to-be-late-MrBug :)

SI

[oliegirl]

BUMP

Saw the orthopedist again today...to catch everyone up - radii had to take me to the ER 2 weekends ago, knee totally locked up on me and it was pain like I have never felt. Visit to the ortho that Tuesday - she sent me for MRI.

MRI follow up appt today - my tilted kneecaps are causing the problem. Whatever I did to cause the pain in the first place put my left kneecap even more off/tilted and that is what is causing all the problems - bones knocking together, ligaments out of whack, etc. Wants to see me back in 6 weeks, if still having "consistent" pain she is recommending arthroscopic surgery where they will cut the ligaments, realign my kneecap and then reattach everything. Has anyone had this procedure or anything like it? Does anyone know anything about this? I have never had any kind of surgery scares me, but not so much that I am willing to live with this knee pain as an alternative.

[terpkristin]

Wait, wait.
Has he sent you to a PT to do strengthening? I would NOT do any surgery before trying PT. As for the surgery, many females need it (myself inclusive), because our hips throw off our knee alignment. I've never had it, I just keep up with doing quad and hamstring-strenghtening (and that's saying something that I've never had it, given I've had 7 orthopaedic surgeries in 2 years, 11 months--and one non-orthopaedic one).

The surgery he's probably talking about is called a lateral release. It is very effective, and rehab isn't bad, but it's not a "permanent" fix--if you slack off on doing quad and hamstring strengthening, you'll still feel like your knee is getting tweaked, because the problem is caused (as I said earlier) by the muscle imbalance caused by the hips, and is something most women have, but active women tend to have more problems with (because the exercises most of us do strengthen only one set of mucles, usually we are weak and inflexible in the hamstrings). My friend had the surgery about 6 years ago, and she still has moments where she has knee pain...and then realizes she needs to get back to lifting.

So. DO NOT have surgery until you try rehab. If rehab doesn't work, then I guess it's worth a shot, but many women have this problem and don't get the surgery. The surgery works, but even with it, you need to remember to exercise the leg muscles properly to help combat the muscle imbalance.

Hope that helps, feel free to ask other questions.

/tk

[st.cronin]

Ever had a kneecap pop out that didnt go right back in? And then touched your knee, and there aint nothing there, and the kneecap is sitting off to the side? Good times.


Yep. On the side of a mountain, no less, with nobody around for miles.