FOFC Diplomacy?

[Radii]

I've been itching for a good game of diplomacy. We tried this on FOFC awhile ago without success, but I'm willing to give it another shot and GM a game if the interest is here.

There is a great new tool called DipTool that will allow me to GM a game without even owning the board game. It has some excellent web output so if you're familier with the game as a player you wouldn't need to own the game either. Here is a sample game I ran for a few turns(just to see the HTML output and to test each phase of the game to see how it works using this tool):

http://www.angband.org/~radii/dip/fofc/fofc/index.html

We need 7 players who can commit to this for a number of weeks. Let me repeat that, and put it in bold. If you cannot commit to responding to e-mails from your fellow game players and sending in orders for the next couple of months do not sign up to play If this is a success I will be more than happy to run it again. It doesn't look like it will take a lot of time as a GM.


We will need to decide if we're going to go for an agressive schedule or a slow paced schedule. There's no point in doing anything over the weekend. the best part of Diplomacy is of course... the diplomacy, and over e-mail that can be a bit slow. I have some ideas but lets make sure there is some interest and then we can hash that out.


For country selection, each person will e-mail me a list of all the available countries in order of preference, we'll randomly draw a selection order and each person will get their top remaining preference.


If you are interested and truly believe you can commit to sticking with this throughout the game, post here. First come first served. If you have ideas on the pace we should go with go ahead and post those as well.


EDIT:

IN:

Skydog
Warhammer
Tredwel
TargetPractice6
Celeval
PackerFan
CastleRock

ALTs:

Coffee Warlord
WSUCougar
ISiddiqui (pending work/travel schedule)

[Radii]

Pace of the game:

Here is my suggestion.

2 business days for spring and fall order, 1 business day for retreats and unit building turns. A likely scenario would be:


Tuesday: Spring 1901
Thrusday: Fall 1901
Friday: New Units placed

Tuesday: Spring 1902
Wednesday: Spring Retreats
Friday: Fall 1902
Monday: Fall Retreats
Tuesday: Unit Placement

Thursday: Spring 1903
Friday: Spring Retreats

etc etc.

That should keep the game moving and give everyone something to do a few times a week, but not limit the negotiations, etc.


Publishing an e-mail address(to the group at least, it doesn't have to go on the board anywhere) would be required, and some IM availability would be nice, but not required.

[terpkristin]

What is this game?
/tk

[Warhammer]

Count me in, as long as I am not Italy.

I'd prefer to be Kaiser Willie or the Swinging Sultan!

"I'll give you two women from my harem for Greece!"

[PackerFanatic]

I've heard of it, but never played it, so I would need a good rundown of rules and basic gameplay if I wanted to do this. Sounds like it could be fun though.

[Ben E Lou]

That's great game output. I was GM of the other game. It died because I didn't want to do a turn that had 3-4 NMR's in it, and it just took too long for some guys to turn in orders, then interest petered out. I'd LOVE to play, and I'd encourage radii, unpleasant as it is, to force the players to stick to deadlines, even if that means having a turn with multiple NMR's.

--Ben

[WSUCougar]

It's been many, many years since my last Dip game, but the idea of a good PBEM game is sure enticing. Please put me down as an alternate...so if you need one more player to start (or somebody bails mid-game), I can fill in.

[ISiddiqui]

Sweet... Hell, you don't even really need a tool to play online diplomacy, just download a map and a paint program.

I'd probably make it more like 3 business days for submitting moves. Just because 2 days can sometimes feel cramped with PBEM (especially with those people who can really only check their emails once a day or something).

[TredWel]

I'm always up for a good game of Dip. Count me in.

[Radii]

Sweet... Hell, you don't even really need a tool to play online diplomacy, just download a map and a paint program.

I'd probably make it more like 3 business days for submitting moves. Just because 2 days can sometimes feel cramped with PBEM (especially with those people who can really only check their emails once a day or something).

I assume that means that you're interested? :)


I can see your point on the extra day for moves. Perhaps early in the game we would give more time for moves, but later on when there are retreat turns pretty much every round we might reconsider.

[Radii]

tk and PackerFan, I would rather have a dedicated player who is learning a bit as s/he goes than an experienced player who doesn't send in orders, so read up on the game a bit, and if you want to play you're more than welcome to. Those that konw the game well would probably enjoy having a newbie or two too :D

Diplomacy is a strategic board game based on World War I in Western Europe. There is no Asian or American involvement. There are no dice and no dice rolling, no outcomes are determined by luck. Each player takes control of one 7 European Powers(England, France, Italy, Germany, Turkey, Russia, and Austria/Hungary). Game pieces are either fleets or armies, each of which have obvious movement properties(armies must be on land, fleets on shores or in water). Only one army or fleet can occupy any one game square. Each army/fleet can move one square per turn. The goal is to atke over 18 supply centers throughout Europe. Whoever can do this first wins the game. Each country starts with either 3 or 4 supply centers in their own home country, and builds their army by taking more centers and holding them.

The fun part of the game are the alliances that are formed and the strategic backstabbing that will inevitiably break alliances. Germany and England working together to take over France, etc.

Rules of the game: http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/diplomacy.pdf

General overview: http://diplom.org/Welcome.html

The rest of the stuff on diplom.org is probably helpful too.

If you decide you want to give it a try followup and let me know.

[Radii]

It's been many, many years since my last Dip game, but the idea of a good PBEM game is sure enticing. Please put me down as an alternate...so if you need one more player to start (or somebody bails mid-game), I can fill in.


Done. If you want to play speak up, I have you listed as an alt now. You're one of our resident gaming experts here, I'd love to have you playing.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'd consider playing if ya'll tolerated a total noob at the game.

[ISiddiqui]

I assume that means that you're interested? :)


I can see your point on the extra day for moves. Perhaps early in the game we would give more time for moves, but later on when there are retreat turns pretty much every round we might reconsider.
I am... but I may have to be an alternate. The new job means I have to travel a lot, and I'm not sure about internet access on the road. I'll have to see. But I'll be willing to help in any way I can.

[terpkristin]

I'd consider playing if ya'll tolerated a total noob at the game.
Ditto. Even though I still don't really know what it is...

/tk

[Radii]

I'd consider playing if ya'll tolerated a total noob at the game.


Do you know the basic rules and premise and understand how the game works?

[Coffee Warlord]

Do you know the basic rules and premise and understand how the game works?

The premise I understand, the basic basic basics I understand, the manual I'm reading.

edit: The more complex support/convey situations are a tad confusing at the moment, but hey.

[Radii]

The premise I understand, the basic basic basics I understand, the manual I'm reading.

edit: The more complex support/convey situations are a tad confusing at the moment, but hey.

The nice thing about having a GM who isn't playing as well is that you have someone to ask questions to. I wouldn't be able to offer advice on what decisions to make or what moves to make, but you could ask "what happens if I attack with this unit and support here and my opponent supports, blah blah" if you aren't sure exactly how all of that works.

Support is very important to have a good understanding of, convoys are complex compared to the rest of the movement in the game.

I'll hold a spot for you, finish reading the instructions and feel free to ask any questions, and let me know after you poke around the dip site a bit if you are sure you want to play or not :)

[Coffee Warlord]

Go ahead and take me out for now, Radii. I wanna watch a game play out first before I dive headfirst, and my schedule can get so weird, I'm not sure of my time.

Although I reserve the right to issue "Today In FOFC War" news articles. :)

[TargetPractice6]

I'm up for a game.

[Ben E Lou]

Bump.

[Celeval]

I'd be interested, although it's been a long, long time since I've played (and even then not well). Would the actual moves and results be posted in the Dynasty forum? This should make a hell of a read.

[Radii]

I'd be interested, although it's been a long, long time since I've played (and even then not well). Would the actual moves and results be posted in the Dynasty forum? This should make a hell of a read.


It sounds like we have a bunch of people that enjoy the game, not a bunch of sharks, so I will put you down :)


I'll see what I can do with a dynasty on this if we get it going. That is a great idea.

[Radii]

We have 5 people now, only need two more. If WSU or Isiddiqui think they would have the time they could fill out the game, though I appreciate listing yourselves as alt's if you're not sure you will have e-mail access often enough :)

Any other takers here?

[Calis]

Very interested to see this, always heard about Diplomacy but have never played it. I'll be following along and this.

Not going to sign up just yet either, want to see one play out and I'm not sure what my schedule is going to look like coming up.

Definitely needs a dynasty.

[WSUCougar]

We have 5 people now, only need two more. If WSU or Isiddiqui think they would have the time they could fill out the game, though I appreciate listing yourselves as alt's if you're not sure you will have e-mail access often enough :)

Any other takers here?
bump

I will be travelling at the end of the next two consecutive weeks, but if we can work around that I might dive in.

[PackerFanatic]

I will read through the rules and such tonight, go ahead and put me down :) I will probably get pwned the first time through, but live and learn, right? :)

[Radii]

bump

I will be travelling at the end of the next two consecutive weeks, but if we can work around that I might dive in.


Travelling for what part of the end of the weeks? Will you still have web/e-mail access(the current game board will be available on the website at all times). We're not going to be doing anything over the weekends, and if not setting any deadlines on a Friday for the first two weeks would work for you, I think that's worth it :)


With PackerFan we now have 6, if WSU can play then we're set, if not we'll need one more person to get started.

[Castlerock]

Damn. I missed this. I'm interested if there is still room although I am a noob.

[Radii]

Damn. I missed this. I'm interested if there is still room although I am a noob.


If WSUCougar wants in after my last post then that spot is his and i'll make you an alternate. If he still wants to sit on the sidelines then you'll be our 7th.

[Radii]

Since it looks like we will land our 7th person today, I have gone ahead and sent PMs to the 6 that have committed so far to e-mail me their list of countries in order of preference.

I have picked up a new gmail account for this:

fofc.dip AT gmail.com

[WSUCougar]

If WSUCougar wants in after my last post then that spot is his and i'll make you an alternate. If he still wants to sit on the sidelines then you'll be our 7th.
Traveling Wed-Fri this week and then Thu-Mon next, with limited or no net access. I think I'm best suited as an alternate for now, thanks.

[Radii]

Sounds good. Castlerock is our 7th player then. Once everyone has sent me a list of their country preferences we will get moving.

Game Scheduling

I am officially suggesting that for 1901 and for Spring 1902 we allow for 3 business days between movement turns, but after that we drop to 2 business days, with 1 day for any non-movement decisions, for example:


Monday, Aug 22 - Spring 1901
Thurs, Aug 25 - Fall 1901
Friday, Aug 26 - Build Orders
Wednesday, Aug 31 - Spring 1902
Thursday, Sep 1 - Retreat Orders
Monday, Sept 5 - Fall 1902
Tuesday, Sept 6 - Retreat Orders
Wednesday, Sept 7 - Build Orders
Friday, Sept 9 - Spring 1903

etc...

any objections?

[Ben E Lou]

Sounds good. Castlerock is our 7th player then. Once everyone has sent me a list of their country preferences we will get moving.

Game Scheduling

I am officially suggesting that for 1901 and for Spring 1902 we allow for 3 business days between movement turns, but after that we drop to 2 business days, with 1 day for any non-movement decisions, for example:


Monday, Aug 22 - Spring 1901
Thurs, Aug 25 - Fall 1901
Friday, Aug 26 - Build Orders
Wednesday, Aug 31 - Spring 1902
Thursday, Sep 1 - Retreat Orders
Monday, Sept 5 - Fall 1902
Tuesday, Sept 6 - Retreat Orders
Wednesday, Sept 7 - Build Orders
Friday, Sept 9 - Spring 1903

etc...

any objections?That sounds pretty good to me overall. 3 days is definitely in order for the earlier moves. My only concern would be having Fall '02 orders due on Labor Day. No problem for me personally, because with Tucker playing on Friday and the Dawgs opening on Saturday, I ain't goin' any farther than Sanford Stadium for that weekend, but I conceive of that being a problem for others.

[Radii]

Good point. We'll work around holidays as need be. We have 5 of the 7 country preferences in already. I am hoping that we can get that ironed out tonight or tomorrow early, if we can then we'll set the first moves to be due next Monday, as the newbies may have a lot of questions early on once the discussion starts amongst the various players, and there are lots of e-mails to go back and forth as initial plans and alliances are laid out.

[WSUCougar]

Important note to noobs:

Deciding if, when, and how to make and (perhaps most importantly) break alliances is the heart of Diplomacy. Trust, once broken, is often gone for good. ;)

[PackerFanatic]

I read through some of the instructions and I will for sure fly by the seat of my pants this first time through. It seems like a learn as you go game more than following strict rules, which is a lot more fun for me!

[TredWel]

Looking forward to starting this. I've cleaned off my desk and have my Dip board out.

[Radii]

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?p=867142#post867142

I have started a dynasty thread on this. We have selected countries and I will be sending out an e-mail to everyone shortly.

[Alf]

Important note to noobs:

Deciding if, when, and how to make and (perhaps most importantly) break alliances is the heart of Diplomacy. Trust, once broken, is often gone for good. ;) Indeed, in that first FOFC Diplo game, Radii did break on me on turn earlier than I expected : bloody englishmen ! (I was playing the French)

A few Diplomacy links

A diplo map (http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/regularmaps/colordip.gif)

A must-read for every player, or diplo strategy tips (alliances, early moves, etc) (http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/strategy.htm)

I'll be following closely this dynasty and could join as an alternate player Radii.

[Radii]

Indeed, in that first FOFC Diplo game, Radii did break on me on turn earlier than I expected : bloody englishmen ! (I was playing the French)


I vaguely remember that :D Its a shame that game died out. I hate playing England. I can always survive forever b/c you can see an attack coming from a mile away but getting a foothold on the mainland is terribly difficult.

[Runtheball]

I checked the link to the sample game that was posted at the start of the thread, and was amazed how similar this is to an old board game I used to play called Machiavelli. Both Machiavelli and Diplomacy were made by Avalon Hill. It seems they are virtually identical except for the timeframe and the map. Machiavelli was one of the most fun board games I've ever played. I still have it in a box, somewhere.
Paradox Entertainment is coming out with a new computer version of Diplomacy later this year.

[Ben E Lou]

Paradox Entertainment is coming out with a new computer version of Diplomacy later this year.
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=41210&highlight=paradox+diplomacy

[Radii]

Machiavelli is a diplomacy variant:

http://diplom.org/Online/variants3.html#m


Machiavelli (S. Craig Taylor and James B. Wood)
An eight-power variant that takes place on a new map consisting of Italy and surrounding regions. The rules are similar in spirit to normal Diplomacy rules but are substantially more complex, including a new unit type (garrison) and concepts such as money, assassinations, famine, bribery, seiges and more.
Note the following: This game was initially released by Battleline Games, then by Avalon Hill, then a second edition by Avalon Hill (published twice in two different boxes) with revised rules and map, plus there is a judge version which was based on the 1st edition but slightly modified. Be sure the files/maps you use below apply to the version you are interested in and if you are playing a version other than one you have played before, be sure you know how the rules and/or map differ.

[Radii]

For those that were only following this thread, our first turn was processed today, here's a pointer to the dynasty thread.

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=41720

[Tekneek]

I see a power or two that could be wiped out in very short order already.