PETA joins the NCAA mascot controversy

[JW]

Speaking of slippery slope....

http://www.al.com/sports/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/sports/1123838627259410.xml&coll=2

Excerpt:

PETA asks NCAA to ban Gamecocks nickname
Friday, August 12, 2005
MIKE PERRIN
News staff writer
Jacksonville State and the University of South Carolina have ruffled some feathers at PETA and the animal rights advocacy group is asking Myles Brand to do something about it.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals sent a letter to the NCAA president on Wednesday asking him to extend the recent ban on nicknames considered hostile or abusive to ethnic groups so that it would outlaw the Gamecocks.

"Our position is that since cockfighting is illegal in 48 states in this country and a felony in South Carolina - you go to jail, period - we don't think schools should be promoting this illegal act with their mascots," said Dan Shannon, PETA manager of campaigns.

"Our problem with Gamecocks is it promotes cockfighting. That's not only illegal, but tremendously cruel to the animals involved.

"We've been in contact with the presidents of these universities for several years," Shannon said. "We've exchanged polite letters back and forth, very polite and respectful, but they have chosen not to change their names.

"With the NCAA decision about Native American nicknames, we hope that might spur them on - no pun intended - to adopt a nickname more respectful to animals."

No, I don't think PETA will get too far on this. Not right now at least.

[sabotai]

Surprise surprise...

[WSUCougar]

What about Gator-baiting, Florida? Cow-tipping, Texas? Lion-nittanying, Penn State? Deacon-demonizing, Wake? Sooner-boomering, Oklahoma? And god knows, somebody think of the Beavers!

And I guess the Idaho Vandals are in trouble then, too, since, you see, vandalism is illegal.

[Raiders Army]

If I were in charge of a school, I'd change my name to the "Fucking Injun Cocks" and at least that way we'd get some publicity from morons.

[kcchief19]

What about Gator-baiting, Florida? Cow-tipping, Texas? Lion-nittanying, Penn State? Deacon-demonizing, Wake? Sooner-boomering, Oklahoma? And god knows, somebody think of the Beavers!

And I guess the Idaho Vandals are in trouble then, too, since, you see, vandalism is illegal. Some of these are already covered. There's been a group around for years that has tried to get teams to get away from "satanic" names like the Deamon Deacons, Sun Devils and the like.

I'm not endorsing PETA's stance necessarily, but I think there is a big difference between a generic Gators, Longhorns or Lions name and the nickname Gamecock which specifically refers only to cockfighting.

Vandals is an interesting question. I guess the statute of limitations on offending an ethnic group is about a thousand years after they have moved on.

Personally, I've thought South Carolina should change their nickname for years simply because it's stupid and makes the state look like they are a bunch of bumble-ass backward dirt farmers. I realize that they get a tremendous bump in t-shirt sales nationwide from males age 16-18 who otherwise wouldn't bother buying a South Carolina t-shirt simply because they think the word "Gamecock" is funny to have on a t-shirt. That's a real tribute to the state. I propose statewide membership in Mensa for that.

I use to be on the side of the fence where I took each case individual and preferred to have a blind spot when Chiefs fans did the tomahawk chop. But now that I'm a bit older and wiser, I just don't see why we hold on to nicknames that are offfensive to some people or promote a violent image. Sports should bring people together; it shouldn't drive them apart.

FSU has helped me to solidify that this is true. They cling to the "endorsement" of the Seminole tribe in Florida but ignore the fact that they essentially bought the endorsement and that other Seminole tribes have objected.

Look at how we treated native Americans in this country for the last few hundred years. We've nearly exterminated them in a fashion that is only a few steps removed from genocide at best. Is it really that big of a deal to hold onto a silly nickname when you're already humiliated a proud people and taken away their way of life?

[Lathum]

I hope this guy gets eatin by a bear

[JW]

What about Gator-baiting, Florida? Cow-tipping, Texas? Lion-nittanying, Penn State? Deacon-demonizing, Wake? Sooner-boomering, Oklahoma? And god knows, somebody think of the Beavers!

And I guess the Idaho Vandals are in trouble then, too, since, you see, vandalism is illegal.

Or try another twist. The LSU Fighting Tigers nickname derives from a Confederate military unit from Louisiana, the Louisiana Tigers. (Now the actual derivation is a little more complicated, but it does have its origin in Confederate military units from Louisiana.)

So, is that offensive?

[TroyF]

FSU has helped me to solidify that this is true. They cling to the "endorsement" of the Seminole tribe in Florida but ignore the fact that they essentially bought the endorsement and that other Seminole tribes have objected.

Really? The Oklahoma tribe voted something like 18-2 in favor of keeping the nickname.

[st.cronin]

Isn't PETA classified as a criminal organization by some state agencies? Regardless, how do they have any credibility that something like this gets even this much discussion?

[Karlifornia]

Yeah, I'm pretty fucking sick of people defending the Native American mascots. Like I said before, that would be like a German team calling themselves the Jews and having Anne Frank as their mascot.

If you still can't understand why it's offensive, then do all other Americans a favor and move deep into the woods were nobody has to talk to you.

[illinifan999]

I just don't see why we hold on to nicknames that are offfensive to some people or promote a violent image.


Then you have to eliminate every single nickname because every possible nickname could offend someone.

[Karlifornia]

Dola,

Oh, and Stanford University changed their nickname form Indians to Cardinal back in the 70's-before politically correct was even in the lexicon, so I don't buy this as another "Casualty of Political Correctness"

[st.cronin]

Notre Dame and Ole Miss have much more offensive nicknames than Florida State, imo.

[Calis]

I think what we'll eventually be left with is about 300 million variations of cats for mascots.

We need to add more, not take away. Add in the Fighting Honkies, or the Cracker Ass Crackers.

[oliegirl]

Some of these are already covered. There's been a group around for years that has tried to get teams to get away from "satanic" names like the Deamon Deacons, Sun Devils and the like.

This isn't just at the college level. In our county, we have a feeder school system - like 8 elementary schools feed into 2 or 3 middle schools and those feed into 1 high school. A number of the school districts have named their mascots similar names to promote unity between the schools and give the kids more of an identity with the schools. One of the highschools is the Broncos - so all the middle and elementary schools that feed into that school are Stallions, Colts, etc...

Our high school is the Blue Devils, so the district wanted to "promote unity" and have all the middle and elem. schools, which a lot of people thought was a good idea...until a group of parents decided it would be satanic and promote devil worshiping and all things evil. I personally didn't care either way, but after listening to these people go on and on for an hour at a PTA meeting I came home and informed radii that we were living in Stepford and I was officially scared...I just don't see why it's a big deal. But that is just me.

[Karlifornia]

We need to add more, not take away. Add in the Fighting Honkies, or the Cracker Ass Crackers.


Here's something I can agree with..if we must keep the Native American nicknames, let's do it for everyone.

-Kenesaw Mountain Cousin-Fuckers

Let's get the corporate world involved:
-Houston Fleecers

-New Orleans Really Loud Black Women

Why limit this to races? Let's get some alternative lifestyles in on the action
-San Francisco Reamers

We already have the Patriots? Why not remember more of our history?
-New England Treaty Breakers
-Oklahoma City Trail of Tears Trailblazers
-Tuscaloosa Slave Traders

Lest we forget our immigrant friends from down south
-San Diego Border Busters
-Los Angeles Stereo Stealers

What about the "Internment Campers" or "Car Crashers" for our asian population.

I mean...all we're doing with nicknames like "Illini" and "Seminoles" is honoring their culture...So, the Japanese should be able to honor us with a baseball team named "Seibu Pearl Harbor Navy Patrol".

Or maybe Iraq could make a cricket team: Fallujah 9 11'ers

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Personally, I've thought South Carolina should change their nickname for years simply because it's stupid and makes the state look like they are a bunch of bumble-ass backward dirt farmers.
You neglect to realize that a large number of South Carilina residents consider being called "bumble-ass backward dirt farmers" to be complimentary.

[illinifan999]

Ok you see I would just laugh at those names, I wouldn't get offended. Just like the indian kid who tried to show white folk how it felt when he named his basketball team the Fightin Whites and had a logo of a businessmen. I found it amusing and moved on. Didn't offend me, it's a nickname.

[MJ4H]

This is exactly why people should be banned from everything.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Best team name ever: Atlanta Black Crackers

[Ksyrup]

Before they chose Seminoles back in the 40's, Crackers was among the 5 or 6 un-PC names that they had to choose from. I forget the others, but when the whole thing broke a few weeks back, the local sports guy went through the history of the name.

[JW]

Yeah, I'm pretty fucking sick of people defending the Native American mascots. Like I said before, that would be like a German team calling themselves the Jews and having Anne Frank as their mascot.

If you still can't understand why it's offensive, then do all other Americans a favor and move deep into the woods were nobody has to talk to you.

So you're pretty fucking sick of the Seminoles of both Florida and Oklahoma -- whose council voted overwhelmingly in favor of the FSU Seminoles mascot not long ago -- and of the overwhelming majority of Native Americans who do not find such mascots offensive? And of the overwhelming majority of Native Americans who find nothing offensive about such mascots according to polling data?

Poll finds few Indians offended by Washington Redskins name

Friday, September 24, 2004

(09-24) 17:22 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

A poll of American Indians found that an overwhelming majority of them are not bothered by the name of the Washington Redskins pro football team.

Only 9 percent of those polled said the name is "offensive," while 90 percent said it's acceptable, according to the University of Pennsylvania's National Annenberg Election Survey, released Friday.

Annenberg polled 768 Indians in every state except Hawaii and Alaska from Oct. 7, 2003, to Sept. 20, 2004.

[TroyF]

Yeah, I'm pretty fucking sick of people defending the Native American mascots. Like I said before, that would be like a German team calling themselves the Jews and having Anne Frank as their mascot.

If you still can't understand why it's offensive, then do all other Americans a favor and move deep into the woods were nobody has to talk to you.


Or we could just use the majority rule and kick your asses into the woods and pretend you never existed.

And like I'm sure someone pointed out to you before, having a team named the Seminoles is nothing like a German team having Anne Frank as their mascot. The assertion the two are even comparable is ridiculous and hurts the arguement you are trying to make. (just as your assertion that all of us who disagree with your view of the world should just leave)

And we do have "white" nicknames. The Fighting Irish. The Vikings. (which has a white "savage" patrolling their sidelines in full Viking gear that isn't even correct). The Celtics. The Ole Rebels. (multiple). Pirates. Patriots. Raiders. All mascots that portray "white" men and most in not such a flattering manner.

But don't pay attention to that. Just continue to use incredibly poor analogies and spew the hate you claim those against you support. I'm sure it'll make you feel pretty special, and in the end that's all that counts. (how about writing such a passionate speech on some of the real problems the Indian community is facing next time?)

[st.cronin]

(how about writing such a passionate speech on some of the real problems the Indian community is facing next time?)

An excellent point; while Redskins is a pretty vile nickname for a team to sport, the rest of this controversy is more about the NCAA or Marquette or whichever group is suddenly at the center of the discussion trying to look good and feel good rather than actually DO good.

[TroyF]

An excellent point; while Redskins is a pretty vile nickname for a team to sport, the rest of this controversy is more about the NCAA or Marquette or whichever group is suddenly at the center of the discussion trying to look good and feel good rather than actually DO good.


It's the same point I made in the other thread. This is about people trying to feel good, not actually make a difference. John Galt believes things will get better for Indians if the names aren't there. He thinks it'll make a difference.

I couldn't disagree more. I think this entire debate glosses over the true problems facing Indian tribes. Living in Oklahoma and close to a few reservations, I can tell you theri problems go far beyond an F'n mascot.

Alcoholism rates and education are just two of the many things that need serious improving. People acting as though changing the mascot is going to help in any meaningful way really need to get a grip.

When trying to do real good, the first thing you must realize is you have limited political capital. You need to pick and choose your battles carefully and try to make the most impact you can. The mascot issue is about, oh, 112th on the list for most Indians. (who, as JW has said pretty overwhelmingly either don't care or actually support the use of these names by nearly every poll that comes out)

But, logic never phases die hards. It's easier to call the people against them racists or back woods hicks who despise Indians and don't care for their feelings. I'd argue that I cared more for their feelings than at least 50% of the people fighting this asinine mascot war. I'd kind of rather see the money and time spent on this battle to maybe be put in something that'll actually make a change.

If the NCAA truly wanted to help Indians out, how about donating 3% of next years basketball tourney cut to Indian scholarships and youth programs? Think that might make more of a diifference than this garbage? I do.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If you still can't understand why it's offensive, then do all other Americans a favor and move deep into the woods were nobody has to talk to you.

Please, for the sake of the world, don't ever reproduce.

[Buccaneer]

Is RFUS just a less intelligent version of Jon?

[Karlifornia]

It's interesting that you guys completely refuse to acknowledge that these nicknames could be offensive...It's just "Hey, how dare someone have the gall to lobby for a nickname to be changed". Why do people feel the need to defend these nicknames?

Troy-Okay, changing the nickname isn't going to magically change the difficulties that the Native American population have been enduring since the settlers arrived here. Now, at the same time, what harm does it cause? The schools have to print out new bumper stickers?

[Karlifornia]

Is RFUS just a less intelligent version of Jon?


Your question hurts my feelings. :(

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's interesting that you guys completely refuse to acknowledge that these nicknames could be offensive...It's just "Hey, how dare someone have the gall to lobby for a nickname to be changed". Why do people feel the need to defend these nicknames?

How about the honest truth RFUS? How about "most people really don't give a flying fuck if they are."

{edited to add:} Or even better yet, try "Most people have gotten really really tired of a handful of malcontents trying to dictate to the majority what they should or shouldn't do."

Damn, why am I the one that ends up with the shit job of saying the bottom-line truth flat out so often?

[Klinglerware]

I couldn't disagree more. I think this entire debate glosses over the true problems facing Indian tribes. Living in Oklahoma and close to a few reservations, I can tell you theri problems go far beyond an F'n mascot.

Alcoholism rates and education are just two of the many things that need serious improving. People acting as though changing the mascot is going to help in any meaningful way really need to get a grip.


I agree with you--the underfunding of public schools in predominantly Native American areas is a root cause of so many problems Native Americans face. The whole mascot issue obscures this--people's energies should be directed at protesting NCLB, cuts to low income school lunch programs, etc that will undercut the quality of public school education for Native Americans even further.

I do feel, however, that the people most vociferous about how "banning mascots does nothing to help the problems of American Indians" also happen to be the same people who vociferously oppose programs and expenditures that actually would make a real difference in the lives of ordinary Indians...

[Buccaneer]

RFUS, there are a lot of things offensive in today's society - far more than sports nicknames. One of the reasons this gets too much play is that there is way too much emphasis on sports, esp at the collegiate level. While nicknames could be offensive to some, it's the effort and the amount of energy that is taken in relation to the benefits. In other words, it has a poor cost/benefit rate. The time, money and effort can and should be better spent elsewhere.

[illinifan999]

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.

[Buccaneer]

I agree with you--the underfunding of public schools in predominantly Native American areas is a root cause of so many problems Native Americans face. The whole mascot issue obscures this--people's energies should be directed at protesting NCLB, cuts to low income school lunch programs, etc that will undercut the quality of public school education for Native Americans even further.

I do feel, however, that the people most vociferous about how "banning mascots does nothing to help the problems of American Indians" also happen to be the same people who vociferously oppose programs and expenditures that actually would make a real difference in the lives of ordinary Indians...
I disagree, as usual. The "underfunding" is NOT the root cause but just a symptom of the real problem. Attitudes and behaviors within the communities have to change first before money can be thrown at it - else it becomes more wasteful than not. One can look at the positive changes in the rural South in the past 2 decades to see a similar history, as well as the continued problems in Appalachia.

[JW]

[QUOTE=RadioFriendlyUnitShifter]It's interesting that you guys completely refuse to acknowledge that these nicknames could be offensive[QUOTE]

There is no doubt the names are offensive to some people, just as Gamecocks is offensive to some people, and just as some other nicknames are offensive to some people. Crusaders comes to mind. There have been some protests against that nickname. But the point is that Native American nicknames and mascots are not offensive to most people and most Native Americans. So why are we doing this?

It seems like what we have here is a small self-righteous group of modern day politically correct puritans purporting to know what is best for all of us. That is what this is really about. So I have to go back and ask again: Is the Seminole Nation of Florida (and Oklahoma) a group of insensitive bigots who just don't get it? Does the NCAA know better than the Seminole Nation and other Native Americans what is best for them? I thought we had gotten past the Great White Father deal.

[JW]

RFUS, there are a lot of things offensive in today's society - far more than sports nicknames. One of the reasons this gets too much play is that there is way too much emphasis on sports, esp at the collegiate level. While nicknames could be offensive to some, it's the effort and the amount of energy that is taken in relation to the benefits. In other words, it has a poor cost/benefit rate. The time, money and effort can and should be better spent elsewhere.

But issues like this generate publicity for the activists. That is part of the equation here. Doing the hard work to solve the real problems does not draw the spotlight like this issue.

And as I've said before, these activists need to look at the dollars involved here, and, as suggested above, ask not for a ban but for a percentage.

[Karlifornia]

If I offended anyone earlier with my comments, I apologize, but for some reason this topic hits a nerve with me.

I think I'll try and watch the rest of this one from the sidelines.

[st.cronin]

If I offended anyone earlier with my comments, I apologize, but for some reason this topic hits a nerve with me.

I think I'll try and watch the rest of this one from the sidelines.


I wasn't offended by your comments; I can't imagine how anybody could be. My point of view is it's a really silly issue, especially given the lack of outrage about Ole Miss nickname (much more offensive than FSU's imo).

[HomerJSimpson]

I wasn't offended by your comments; I can't imagine how anybody could be. My point of view is it's a really silly issue, especially given the lack of outrage about Ole Miss nickname (much more offensive than FSU's imo).


No, there is outrage over the Ole Miss nickname, and many attempts to change it. That was a bad example.

[Klinglerware]

I wasn't offended by your comments; I can't imagine how anybody could be. My point of view is it's a really silly issue, especially given the lack of outrage about Ole Miss nickname (much more offensive than FSU's imo).

You forget about the controversy about Ole Miss banning the Confederate flag at home games, about 10 or so years ago. I do believe that a lot of alumni were outraged at the time, but compliance appears to be pretty good since...

[st.cronin]

I know the mascot at Ole Miss has come up, but with nowhere near the same level of national attention as FSU's mascot. Fighting Irish is just as bad. Anyway the point is ... it's a silly thing to get worked up about. If FSU's mascot bugs you, root against them.

[TroyF]

I agree with you--the underfunding of public schools in predominantly Native American areas is a root cause of so many problems Native Americans face. The whole mascot issue obscures this--people's energies should be directed at protesting NCLB, cuts to low income school lunch programs, etc that will undercut the quality of public school education for Native Americans even further.

I do feel, however, that the people most vociferous about how "banning mascots does nothing to help the problems of American Indians" also happen to be the same people who vociferously oppose programs and expenditures that actually would make a real difference in the lives of ordinary Indians...


I only partially agree with that last one.

Yeah, some would oppose any aide given to Indians. That all goes into my "political capital" arguement though. With those people, everything is a fight. Everything. You can make small wins and gains though.

Problem is, the small wins and gains in this thing is the changing of a mascot or two. It does nothing and I mean NOTHING to fix the real problems Indians face.

In this case a win is a loss. The more publicity this gets, the less the real issues that are needed to impact change get. 90% of the people riding their white horses to save the day are going to dissapear about ten seconds after this issue dies. The sad thing is the issue won't die. So we get to hear about how these mascots are undermining the Indian people every few months.

My gripe here is with the NCAA though. Like I said, you want to do the Indian people some good? Donate a chunk of your money to funding education and activities on Indian reservations. Hell, spend the money you've spent researching and debating this rule on those things. I can promise you those are results that would be seen and felt by more people than this ridiculous game.

The NCAA is in that 90% group. They want to act as though they are doing something. They want to feel good about themselves. And somehow they've honestly came to the conclusion this is the way to do it. Talk about a bunch of idiots.

And RFUS. . . talk away. I'm not bothered that you are passionate about this issue. (though I do disagree with a majority of your points) I am bothered by you comparing a German team using Anne Frank as their mascot to Florida St.

But to each his own. . .

[Loren]

"Our position is that since cockfighting is illegal in 48 states in this country and a felony in South Carolina - you go to jail, period - we don't think schools should be promoting this illegal act with their mascots," said Dan Shannon, PETA manager of campaigns.
"Our problem with Gamecocks is it promotes cockfighting. That's not only illegal, but tremendously cruel to the animals involved.
"We've been in contact with the presidents of these universities for several years," Shannon said. "We've exchanged polite letters back and forth, very polite and respectful, but they have chosen not to change their names.
"With the NCAA decision about Native American nicknames, we hope that might spur them on - no pun intended - to adopt a nickname more respectful to animals." [/B]

I agree with Dan:) but i usually do...and PETa HAS been trying to get the name change for a while, so of course with the NCAA's recent decisions, why WOULDNT they try to take advanatage of that...

[RendeR]

Fuck Peta, and FUck the NCAA, I'm not going to apologize for my stance to anyone either. If the pure ignorance behind this type of tripe isn't obvious to people then they can sit and wine into their beer goggles.

Whining about a fucking team MASCOT is about the stupidest fucking thing I've ever seen grown, supposedly intelligent people do.

Grow up and get a clue. Find a cause that has some realistic fucking MEANING in the world. Stop being self indulgent pussies.

[MrBug708]

WHat states are cock fights legal?

[Tigercat]

Although I very much side against the NCAA in the Native American mastcot issue, I think this one is a totally different animal. Its a bit much to have a mascot depicting an action thats still prosecuted all over the place and illegal just about everywhere. I am not sure what a good solution to the problem would be, but I see a public university trying to positively spin an illegal action as problematic.

*And before anyone argues that any fighting mascot depicts an illegal action, fighting between people can actual be legal and sanctioned or be something that can't be prosecuted. If you trying to cockfight anywhere in South Carolina its illegal.

[Tigercat]

WHat states are cock fights legal?

It used to be Oklahoma and Louisiana. Although I don't know how true that is anymore, because at least in some parts of Louisiana you can get arrested for it nowadays. Although I know quite a few places in Louisiana where its still quite an attraction.

[RendeR]

*sigh* again people, lets put this in per-fucking-spective for a moment.

A mascot does not promote action, period. Never has, Never will.

A Mascot promotes empathy with what the image represents. For example: Seminoles actually promotes people wanting to emulate the seminole indian, to promote their bravery, strength and prowess in battle. These are not BAD things, but of course all the nay-sayers can do is scream racism.(personally I think its the only fucking word they ever learned to spell)

The same is applied to Gamecocks. It is NOT a promotion of COCKFIGHTING. how oblivious would you have to be to actually get to "promoting cockfighting" from seeing a college team mascot?

THe animals involved in those illegal fights were revered by the patrons and their owners because cocks will fight to the death when it comes to that. THe mascot tries to impress upon the opponent that the team will fight to the bitter end in the hopes of victory.

I mean COME ON, is common fucking sense so truly lacking in this world?

[Tigercat]

*sigh* again people, lets put this in per-fucking-spective for a moment.

A mascot does not promote action, period. Never has, Never will.

A Mascot promotes empathy with what the image represents. For example: Seminoles actually promotes people wanting to emulate the seminole indian, to promote their bravery, strength and prowess in battle. These are not BAD things, but of course all the nay-sayers can do is scream racism.(personally I think its the only fucking word they ever learned to spell)

The same is applied to Gamecocks. It is NOT a promotion of COCKFIGHTING. how oblivious would you have to be to actually get to "promoting cockfighting" from seeing a college team mascot?

THe animals involved in those illegal fights were revered by the patrons and their owners because cocks will fight to the death when it comes to that. THe mascot tries to impress upon the opponent that the team will fight to the bitter end in the hopes of victory.

I mean COME ON, is common fucking sense so truly lacking in this world?


This isn't a fighting cock though, its a gamecock. Personally, I am not even sure that I care much if cockfighting is illegal or not, animals get treated worse in some places so we can get fed on a daily basis.

For me its not a question of "am I offended" or "does this clearly promote cockfighting." Its stepping away from the specifics of it all, the mascot can almost ONLY be associated with an illegal act (cockfighting) and is being used as a symbol for a public university. That doesn't even throw a small warning light in your brain? For me those two things just should not exist together. If you don't care about the possible wrongness of something enough to let your public university use it as a symbol, fine. But if you are going to make something illegal, don't risk(*note the word risk I am not saying they are doing so for sure) glorifying something illegal by making it a symbol of your public university.

[korme]

I realize that they get a tremendous bump in t-shirt sales nationwide from males age 16-18 who otherwise wouldn't bother buying a South Carolina t-shirt simply because they think the word "Gamecock" is funny to have on a t-shirt. i can vouch for this

[Izulde]

Although if you think about it, Fighting Cocks would generate even more juvenile sales than Gamecocks :D

[JW]

If I offended anyone earlier with my comments, I apologize, but for some reason this topic hits a nerve with me.

I think I'll try and watch the rest of this one from the sidelines.

You have a legitimate viewpoint shared by a considerable minority. My concern is trying to paint those who object to a ban on Native American mascots as insensitive or bigoted.

[Ksyrup]

The NCAA reaps what it sows. I hope the Fruit of the Loom guys are the next to petition the NCAA, to have Presbyterian College's "Blue Hose" nickname changed.

[thetrilogy]

The Toledo Rockets must decide on a new name now.

The term Rockets is disrespectful to the Challenger and Columbia crew who perished in those tragic accidents, along with all other space exploration failures resulting in loss of life.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

The Toledo Rockets must decide on a new name now.

The term Rockets is disrespectful to the Challenger and Columbia crew who perished in those tragic accidents, along with all other space exploration failures resulting in loss of life.

UNLV should also change its name: The name ''REBELS'' didrespects the proud heritage of The South and all it stood for. The name ''REBELS'' also disrespects the memory of American Movie Icon James Dean, Unarguably the greatest actor in film history. :D

[rkmsuf]

RUNNING Rebels further implies that they have diarrea or something. Very offensive.

[Noop]

Since when did these cock suckers have power over thing? Tell em go fuck themselves and suck a rabbit's dick. Bunch of tree hugger.

[st.cronin]

Btw here in Santa Fe there is a high school owned and operated by the local tribes called the Santa Fe Indian School. It's nickname is Braves.

[HomerJSimpson]

Btw here in Santa Fe there is a high school owned and operated by the local tribes called the Santa Fe Indian School. It's nickname is Braves.


They must hate themselves.

[Buccaneer]

The Indian School has a very long history (even though it's been in Santa Fe for only about 25 years, if I recall). Funded and run by the Pueblas of NM, it really is one of the best HS in the country. I knew someone who taught there and have visited the school a couple of times. They seem to be very proud to be the Braves (and Lady Braves).

[Tigercat]

If that is the school I am thinking of, there is also a very good book(ethnography) on that school called Places of Memory. And if it is the same school, they are quite serious about their sports. I remember hearing that their basketball team is especially solid.

[Aardvark]

The Indian School has a very long history (even though it's been in Santa Fe for only about 25 years, if I recall). Funded and run by the Pueblas of NM, it really is one of the best HS in the country. I knew someone who taught there and have visited the school a couple of times. They seem to be very proud to be the Braves (and Lady Braves).

Would you believe the late 1800s? http://www.sfis.k12.nm.us/History.htm (Santa Fe Indian School History)

I remember visiting in the early 70s with my dad. (He was researching Dorothy Dunn, the art teacher there during the 30s, who taught a great many of the Native American painters of the era.

[TroyF]

Damned racists. Don't they know about the negative stereotypes they are presenting?