ESPN loses the NHL....Go OLN!

[WrongWay]

I just don't understand. I know ESPN has been losing market share to all the local sports channels popping up on everyone's TV, but damn they have just lost a huge sport. I guess this will give them some air time for another Playmakers type series or ESPN Hollywood 2.

ESPN last night dropped out of bidding for NHL games for this season, refusing to match an offer made by Comcast's Outdoor Life Network. OLN now seems likely to televise hockey games nationally when the season starts in October.

I don't get it? :confused:

[spleen1015]

You need to change your subject.

I am quite glad that the NHL isn't going to be on ESPN anymore. Thank the maker!

I don't even know if I have OLN.

[WrongWay]

Done and done.

[Critch]

There's been rumors that Comcast were trying to turn OLN into a sports network to attempt to challenge ESPN, there's been rumors that OLN will try to get NFL coverage starting in the 2006 season. That would be a good bargaining chip for Comcast if they try to lower ESPN's $2.60 per subscriber fee.

$100mil over 2 years for NHL coverage doesn't seem very much to pay, though.

(edit, OLN are paying $100mil over 2 years for the coverage, not $100 as I first put :) )

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mark it down -- Comcast will lose money on the deal when all is said & done.

(that's not meant as a knock on the NHL, it's really a shot at Comcast)

[Draft Dodger]

Mark it down -- Comcast will lose money on the deal when all is said & done.

(that's not meant as a knock on the NHL, it's really a shot at Comcast)

and that would make it different from all the other broadcasting deals how? they ALL lose money.

[Critch]

OLN is apparently available in 61mil households compared to 80mil for ESPN, so it's pretty widespread and it's expanding.

I know direcTV has it as part of it's sports package, every year I start to watch the Tour de France on OLN for the first 3 or 4 stages before I lose interest and skip the rest of it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

and that would make it different from all the other broadcasting deals how? they ALL lose money.

Let's just say that if anybody can manage to screw this up, I believe it'll be Crapcast.

[Draft Dodger]

OLN is apparently available in 61mil households compared to 80mil for ESPN, so it's pretty widespread and it's expanding.

I know direcTV has it as part of it's sports package, every year I start to watch the Tour de France on OLN for the first 3 or 4 stages before I lose interest and skip the rest of it.

OLN is part of of all their packages, not just the sports one.

[CraigSca]

$100 over 2 years for NHL coverage doesn't seem very much to pay, though.
Dang, I would have given them $110 for the rights. How come no one called me?

[JeffR]

$100 over 2 years for NHL coverage doesn't seem very much to pay, though.

It isn't. The old ESPN/ABC deal was $600 million over 5 years. But there apparently still may be a secondary contract with another network, probably Spike or TNT, to be worked out.

[Critch]

OLN is part of of all their packages, not just the sports one.

I didn't know that, I just assumed it was part of the sports package because it was stuck in the 600-range with the rest of them.

[Draft Dodger]

Let's just say that if anybody can manage to screw this up, I believe it'll be Crapcast.

oh I agree, and, don't forget, the NHL is involved as well, increasing the "we're going to fuck this up" quotient exponentially. Not that Comcast needs help - the speed with which they utterly destroyed TechTV is quite impressive.

[JonInMiddleGA]

NEW YORK (AP) - NHL games will air on Outdoor Life Network for at least the next two seasons.

The league finalized a two-year deal with Comcast Corp. - the owner of OLN - late Wednesday night after ESPN declined to match the agreement that will pay the NHL $65 million this season and $70 million in 2006-07.
...
The new deal can be extended up to six years. For the 2007-08 season, Comcast would pay the NHL $72.5 million but that number could go higher based on contingencies.

Okay, so it's $135m for 2 years then. Anybody know what the average spotload in a hockey game is? (I've never had to buy spots in hockey & have never really stopped to figure it out while watching).

[Draft Dodger]

It isn't. The old ESPN/ABC deal was $600 million over 5 years. But there apparently still may be a secondary contract with another network, probably Spike or TNT, to be worked out.

they already have a deal in place with NBC

[Kodos]

Bah. It's hockey. Put it on HSN for all I care! ;)


ESPN is crap though.

[JeffR]

they already have a deal in place with NBC

No, on top of that. The NBC one was announced a while back, and it's just for a few Saturday games late in the year, plus everything after game 2 of the finals. What I'd heard implied there'd be a second network handling a weekly (or thereabouts) broadcast.

[ISiddiqui]

Didn't ESPN have an option for broadcasting the NHL, but decided to cut it loose? I don't think they want the NHL because it doesn't get them enough in ratings.

[henry296]

This decision was as much ESPN's as the NHLs. In April the NHL declined their option for this season but had a right to match any other offer. Then OLN/Comcast submitted an offer and ESPN declined to match it. Now the NHL didn't have to accept the OLN offer and could have negotiated a lower rate with ESPN.

[Anthony]

seriously, you mean to tell me ESPN has better things to air than a hockey game? i mean, there's only so much poker you can watch. to be honest, poker is just a passing fad. i can't see ESPN putting their chips (pun intended) in the poker basket and shunning a top 5 sport.

i can't see why Fox Sports didn't take advtange of this.

[kcchief19]

ESPN didn't match because last year they scored higher ratings with more college basketball, "original" programming and other odd-ball sports. I think bassmasters outdrew the NHL on ESPN.

Mark it down -- Comcast will lose money on the deal when all is said & done.

(that's not meant as a knock on the NHL, it's really a shot at Comcast) I'll take the over on this. If you're looking at the straight bottom line of revenue generated only through advertising on hockey games versus cost of coverage, it might be a loss leader. But it will likely help OLN boost households and promote other programming. People tune in for hockey and find out Survivor and reruns of Little House and the Prairie or something or other are on OLN and suddenly they have more viewers and and more revenue through higher ad rates for non-NHL programming.

The average hockey game on ESPN drew low ratings for ESPN, but those low ratings would still be better for OLN than program they have ever aired aside from some Tour de France coverage.

That said, I think this is a bad deal for the NHL. This is the SCA deal all over again, just not as bad. For you young pups, the NHL set itself back 25 years back in the late 1980s when they struck a deal to put all their games on a cable network available on 12 television sets in parts of Maine and nowhere else in the country.

The NHL is not the fourth major sport anymore. I'm not sure it's even sixth. Auto racing and golf have surpassed it for sure. It might be battling with tennis right now. They need national prominence and lots of it. I think this deal is good for OLN only if they get a ton of games on -- at least three nights of hockey a week, at least one doubleheader and playoff games every night possible.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Anybody know what the average spotload in a hockey game is? (I've never had to buy spots in hockey & have never really stopped to figure it out while watching).If the question is how many ads they have, they do a TV timeout on roughly the same schedule as college basketball (16/12/8/4). I'm not sure of the length... might be one minute or two. Lots of commercials during the intermissions. No TV breaks in OT, which isn't a big deal during the regular season but can be during the playoffs.

[WrongWay]

i can't see why Fox Sports didn't take advtange of this.
The OLN deal was only for a National Broadcast contract. The local broadcasts deals with area stations (Ex. your local FSN) are still in place.

[WrongWay]

I'll take the over on this. If you're looking at the straight bottom line of revenue generated only through advertising on hockey games versus cost of coverage, it might be a loss leader. But it will likely help OLN boost households and promote other programming.
Bingo. Anyone here remember FOX before the NFL?

I look for OLN to really take a crack at filling the ESPN Sports Programming Void. Let ESPN continue to fill their lineup with talk show after talk show and give OLN all the actual Sports Programs.

[Anthony]

Sports Illustrated could always start their own network and give EPSN a run for their money. CNN/SI didn't work, cuz back then ESPN was still an all sports news network, but it could be argued that the climate is right for competition.

[KWhit]

The NHL is not the fourth major sport anymore. I'm not sure it's even sixth. Auto racing and golf have surpassed it for sure. It might be battling with tennis right now. They need national prominence and lots of it.
I was just going to post this - almost verbatim - especially regarding the fact that NASCAR and golf have surpassed the NHL. This hurts the NHL. OLN is not a channel that most people click to like ESPN is. When I'm flipping channels, I always check and see what's on ESPN. Not so with OLN. The NHL is going to lose a lot of that type of traffic because of this move.

[Daimyo]

XFL had better ratings than the NHL... its not like we're talking about a huge loss here.

[Superman=#54]

Looks like a lot of Chicago will not be watching hockey on television this season. Local games are blacked out, because of the ownership. I would guess most people do not have OLN. It is nice the Blackhawks made some big signings, but not many people will be watching.

[Superman=#54]

BTW

I hate Comcast. Once during a Cubs game on the Comcast channel, the station went blank for the entire 9th inning. Comcast seems to always have problems with their live game broadcasts.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If the question is how many ads they have, they do a TV timeout on roughly the same schedule as college basketball (16/12/8/4). I'm not sure of the length... might be one minute or two. Lots of commercials during the intermissions. No TV breaks in OT, which isn't a big deal during the regular season but can be during the playoffs.

Thanks Mr.W, I really never gave that question much thought until now.
So let's see here ...

Figure an average of 70 games per year (based on "58 to 78" wording).
There's roughly 4 break per period X 3 periods = 12 breaks
Minus at least 1 break per hour that belongs to the local system, not the network = 9 breaks
Plus 2 breaks in the pre-game + 2 in the post-games (might be too high for post, but close enough for this exercise) = 13 breaks X 2 mins each (I'm guessing here) = 26 mins X :30 spots = 52 spots per game.

52 spots X 70 games = 3640 spots/season
$65m rights this year / 3640 spots = $17,857 per spot to break even

(at this point, I'm chuckling to myself because I know where this is going to end up now)

This is from October 2003
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DIZ/is_39_15/ai_110815802#continue
Last year, with a combined 71 games on the two networks, ratings continued to plunge, pulling a .23 on ESPN2 (down from .25) and a .46 on ESPN (down from .49). So let's split the difference & say there'll be an average 0.35 rating on OLN (which I believe is high, but I can afford to be generous)

That's an audience roughly equal to what the 5am Mon-Sun Sportscenter draws ... but to break even, OLN needs a unit rate roughly 4x what those viewers cost with that pre-dawn SC gets.

And, just for translation purposes -- that 0.35 is roughly equal to 380,000 households, (guessing a little here) 218,000 M25-54, and maybe 310,000 A18+.

Don't get me wrong, there'll be some advertisers willing to pay 4x the going rate for the same basic viewer ... but even with the low opinion I have of the average media buyer's respect for cost efficiency, I'm having a tough time seeing how they can sell out the hockey ad inventory for enough to break even.

If I'm a Comcast stockholder, I'm at least moderately pissed off right now.

[JeffR]

I was just going to post this - almost verbatim - especially regarding the fact that NASCAR and golf have surpassed the NHL. This hurts the NHL. OLN is not a channel that most people click to like ESPN is. When I'm flipping channels, I always check and see what's on ESPN. Not so with OLN. The NHL is going to lose a lot of that type of traffic because of this move.

Yup. Somebody on another board just posted a list of OLN local channel numbers around New York:

New York City: 122
Rochester: 69
Syracuse: 55
Buffalo: 140

Not exactly prime channel-surfing territory.

[ISiddiqui]

Why? It's a great deal in an attempt to have the OLN channel take off. FOX definetly lost money when it originally bought the NFL (probably still losing money), but the benefits that arose from the purchase made it worthwile. IMO, without getting NFL Football, there is no FOXNews, as FOX wouldn't be 'big' enough to make it work.

[Draft Dodger]

Yup. Somebody on another board just posted a list of OLN local channel numbers around New York:

New York City: 122
Rochester: 69
Syracuse: 55
Buffalo: 140

Not exactly prime channel-surfing territory.

it's better than 608!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Why? It's a great deal in an attempt to have the OLN channel take off. FOX definetly lost money when it originally bought the NFL (probably still losing money), but the benefits that arose from the purchase made it worthwile. IMO, without getting NFL Football, there is no FOXNews, as FOX wouldn't be 'big' enough to make it work.

Did you really just compare the NHL to the NFL?

I mean, I've personally got about as much interest in a random hockey game on tape-delay as I do in a random NFL game, but even I recognize the difference in the overall appeal and impact of the two.

[sovereignstar]

What the flying fuck is OLN? Is ESPN just gonna roll with their faggoty strongest men competitions? Well woohoo

[JonInMiddleGA]

What the flying fuck is OLN? Is ESPN just gonna roll with their faggoty strongest men competitions? Well woohoo

I wouldn't be too upset with ESPN, given the figures that are being quoted & the historical ratings of the NHL, turning down this "opportunity" was the only choice they could make. I see no way they could even hope to break even on this "deal".

[ISiddiqui]

Did you really just compare the NHL to the NFL?

I mean, I've personally got about as much interest in a random hockey game on tape-delay as I do in a random NFL game, but even I recognize the difference in the overall appeal and impact of the two.
Yes, I did. It's a similar concept. Also Fox is a network, while OLN is trying to break through in cable. The impact will be similar on the intent of the channel (ie, Fox was trying to become part of the Big 3, making it the Big 4; OLN is trying to become as big as Comedy Central and Fox Sports Channel).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yes, I did. It's a similar concept. Also Fox is a network, while OLN is trying to break through in cable. The impact will be similar on the intent of the channel (ie, Fox was trying to become part of the Big 3, making it the Big 4; OLN is trying to become as big as Comedy Central and Fox Sports Channel).

Perhaps ... but therein lies the rub ... getting to the level of CC or FSC doesn't justify the expense that they're looking at; the gain in revenue isn't enough to balance the cost.

[ISiddiqui]

In the short run, maybe not, but in the long run, it may make perfect sense. If OLN becomes a competitor to ESPN, the acquisition of the NHL could be the thing that started the ball rolling. I'm sure Comcast is looking at this from a long run perspective. It wants OLN to become a player. I'm sure that shortly in the future, they'll create their own "SportsCenter" like show and try to transform the network.

[rkmsuf]

Outdoor Life Network? Hockey is played indoors fools.

[Pumpy Tudors]

If people want to watch the NHL and have access to it, they'll find it. I just want to watch hockey, and although I'll get Penguins games on Fox Sports Pittsburgh, I would want the national games, too. I don't care if I have to set the TV to ESPN or OLN. Hell, they could put the games on Oxygen and I'd watch.

I figure that I'm probably in the minority about the NHL as it was, but I didn't mind the style of play that the NHL became known for. I had no problems with the neutral zone trap or the 2-1 scores. I also won't mind the game with the new rules that are in for this season. For many hockey fans, though, if these rule changes really do what they're supposed to do, won't the fans start watching more games? I'm not going to pretend that OLN is going to draw a million viewers for each broadcast, but the interactions I've had with other hockey fans suggest that the ratings were down because the game had become "unwatchable." So what if it becomes "watchable" again?

[bronconick]

If there ever was a time for competition to ESPN to rise, now is it.

I mean, if this isn't karma, I don't know what is.


The Monday premiere of ESPN2's much-hyped ESPN Hollywood, a sort of Access Hollywood for sports, drew 0.08% of cable TV households. That translates to 75,000 households, which happens to be the standard industry projection for the number of homes where viewing levels are determined by pets accidentally hitting TV remotes
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/hiestand-tv/2005-08-16-hiestand-tv_x.htm

[Anthony]

if hockey increases it's scoring so that 5-4 games are considered an average nite as opposed to an offensive explosion, i'll watch even more. i always said if hockey truly wanted to be a major sport it'd have to do away with goalies. that'd be fun. defense is for winning, offense is for entertainment. pro sports are in the entertainment business.

but regardless, if the new changes results in higher scoring games i'll watch with more regularity, for sure.

[Draft Dodger]

Outdoor Life Network? Hockey is played indoors fools.

OLN is now...just OLN. Not the Outdoor Life Network anymore (a la ESPN)

[Pumpy Tudors]

...if the new changes results in higher scoring games i'll watch with more regularity, for sure.
Counting myself, that's now 2 down, 999,998 to go.

[KWhit]

If people want to watch the NHL and have access to it, they'll find it.
True. The problem is that due to the lockout, there are fewer people who want to watch it. And due to the move from ESPN, there are now fewer people who have access to it.

That's a big double-whammy to the NHL.

And to my earlier point, you will now have less people stumble across it and decide to watch now than you did before, due to the fact that for most sports fans, OLN isn't on their radar like ESPN is.

[rkmsuf]

I seriously doubt many people are going to take the time to find this channel for hockey. Who wants to sit and watch a national hockey broadcast anyway. If it's not your local team it's just not appealing no matter what channel it's on.

Football has that great avantage. It's probably the leader of people tuning in for other than a home team game. Hockey has no star power so they can't even get the people the turn on the NBA for Shaq or Lebron. It's just a bunch of doods out there.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I seriously doubt many people are going to take the time to find this channel for hockey. Who wants to sit and watch a national hockey broadcast anyway. If it's not your local team it's just not appealing no matter what channel it's on.

Football has that great avantage. It's probably the leader of people tuning in for other than a home team game. Hockey has no star power so they can't even get the people the turn on the NBA for Shaq or Lebron. It's just a bunch of doods out there.
I'm not much for sarcasm, but...

Yeah, there's no way any hockey fan outside of Pittsburgh is going to want to see Sidney Crosby.

[rkmsuf]

Perhaps the 12 fans left with get a charge out of it.

Never even seen the guy. He could be sitting right next to me and I wouldn't even know it.

[ISiddiqui]

If it's not your local team it's just not appealing no matter what channel it's on.
Speak for yourself. It was great watching Detroit play Colorado with the hate between both teams, even though I'm not a fan or either.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Perhaps the 12 fans left with get a charge out of it.

Never even seen the guy. He could be sitting right next to me and I wouldn't even know it.
Your contributions are appreciated.

[rkmsuf]

Speak for yourself. It was great watching Detroit play Colorado with the hate between both teams, even though I'm not a fan or either.


Who else would I speak for?

To clarify, outside of the "true hockey fan" I mean...whatever that means.

[rkmsuf]

Your contributions are appreciated.

If I start a Voodoo hate thread are you cracking skulls?

[sovereignstar]

Perhaps the 12 fans left with get a charge out of it.

Never even seen the guy. He could be sitting right next to me and I wouldn't even know it.

The circus isn't in this thread, clown. Try somewhere else.

[rkmsuf]

The circus isn't in this thread, clown. Try somewhere else.

Hockeycrishna, crishna crishna.

[Anthony]

I'm not much for sarcasm, but...

Yeah, there's no way any hockey fan outside of Pittsburgh is going to want to see Sidney Crosby.

i'll be following him (moreso than other rookies). i missed out on the Gretzky/Lemiuex era, by the time i got into sports Wayne was already in LA and stopped winning championships, my familiarity with Gretzky/Super Mario was through video games.

Crosby would be my chance to see a legend "from the start". i can see myself being more of a hockey fan now, with the rule changes, a "must-see" talent in Sidney Crosby, and the advantage of being able to get on the ground level, a league that is essentially starting over due to all these drastic changes. i stopped following hockey a while ago (late 90's, once the Rangers started sucking), but with all the players moving teams and changes i likely know as much about the NHL as the next guy.

[ISiddiqui]

Who else would I speak for?

To clarify, outside of the "true hockey fan" I mean...whatever that means.
I ain't a "true hockey fan" either :p.

And you were speaking for yourself?!

"I seriously doubt many people are going to take the time to find this channel for hockey. Who wants to sit and watch a national hockey broadcast anyway. If it's not your local team it's just not appealing no matter what channel it's on."

Yeah... I can see that... :rolleyes:

[rkmsuf]

I ain't a "true hockey fan" either :p.

And you were speaking for yourself?!

"I seriously doubt many people are going to take the time to find this channel for hockey. Who wants to sit and watch a national hockey broadcast anyway. If it's not your local team it's just not appealing no matter what channel it's on."

Yeah... I can see that... :rolleyes:

Why can't I personally doubt it?

Let's not get riled up people.

Bubba Crosby rules!

[ISiddiqui]

"Who wants to sit and watch a national hockey broadcast anyway."

You missed that line...

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm not a regular television watcher, so I need some help to understand how most people watch TV. Do people really need to "stumble upon" a program or a sporting event in order to watch it? I'm more likely to be sitting around wondering "When is some hockey coming on?" than to be flipping through channels and saying "Oh, there's hockey on!"

[rkmsuf]

"Who wants to sit and watch a national hockey broadcast anyway."

You missed that line...

It was an honest question. So far several people in this thread would. I'm not saying they are wrong.

How you choose to waste 2.5 hours is your business. :D

[rkmsuf]

I'm not a regular television watcher, so I need some help to understand how most people watch TV. Do people really need to "stumble upon" a program or a sporting event in order to watch it? I'm more likely to be sitting around wondering "When is some hockey coming on?" than to be flipping through channels and saying "Oh, there's hockey on!"

I don't have 600 channels like a lot of people nowdays so it's a little different with fewer. I mean with a tremendous amount of channels it's not feasible to "surf" as much per say so I'd guess those folks would be more focussed on specific programming. I can go around the dial in probably a minute or so and check all the channels that might have something on. Let the whim of the moment decide what I land on. Surely if you love hockey you are more inclined to know what's going on so I guess it's really only a discussion for the "outer" sports fans not necessarily hockey fans. Like for me, I'll pretty much know the NFL schedule, hockey not so much.

I could be wrong. It's happened occasionally.

[KWhit]

I'm not much for sarcasm, but...

Yeah, there's no way any hockey fan outside of Pittsburgh is going to want to see Sidney Crosby.
I guess I must be out of touch and this may indicate how little I follow/care about hockey, but I've never heard of him.

[rkmsuf]

I guess I must be out of touch and this may indicate how little I follow/care about hockey, but I've never heard of him.


sweet justice

[ISiddiqui]

How is it justice when KWhit admitted he wasn't a hockey fan, which the original post presupposed? :p

[sabotai]

Personally, I'll be watching each and every Pittsburgh game that gets shown, no matter what channel it's on.

How you choose to waste 2.5 hours is your business.
That's hardly anything compared to how much time I waste on this board. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm not a regular television watcher, so I need some help to understand how most people watch TV. Do people really need to "stumble upon" a program or a sporting event in order to watch it? I'm more likely to be sitting around wondering "When is some hockey coming on?" than to be flipping through channels and saying "Oh, there's hockey on!"

I believe there's a lot more casual viewing than you would think (although in the case of the NHL, obviously not nearly so much).

For evidence ... I got diddly-squat. But anecdotally, I just think about my dad. He's a guy who will watch most different sports if he happens to think about them being on OR if he stumbles across something while changing channels, but outside of the Braves & NASCAR, he really doesn't keep track of who's on when. And the only other sport I know he will check channel listings for is college baseball.

[WrongWay]

LOL I remember when fox was shown on channel 51 and was nothing but AL Bundy and Joan Rivers. Pre-NFL days.

Also, reading this entire thread eveyone seems to think it will be the "old NHL" this year. I for one am expecting a something huge from the NHL owners to promote their sport this year. Their backs are to the wall and the league must know this.



BTW--If Lebron James set down next me I wouldn't know who he was unless he actually introduced himself.

[TazFTW]

They need a lil Crosby except instead of selling 7up or Sprite, lil Crosby sells Labatt Blue or Molson.

Saw the following on Kuklas (from the Philly Inquirer),

OLN and the league want to create a national hockey night. For the 2006-07 season, the league will devise its schedule so that on a certain night each week, probably Monday, only one game will be played in the NHL, and it will be on OLN. The strategy seems to put hockey night against Monday Night Football, which is shifting to ESPN in 2006.
Yes, have Hockey Night in America go head-to-head with MNF. That'll get you ratings. :rolleyes:

[Coder]

I know I'm probably more excited this year than last, even though at this point last year I was still hoping for a season. This year's NHL has had an awesome off-season since the lockout was ended. The draft yielding Crosby and the free agency frenzy that followed has got me ordering the only channel that shows NHL hockey here in Sweden (eh.. twice a week, on good weeks). I'm definately more interested in hockey now than I was last year..

[Pumpy Tudors]

OK, if OLN plans to pit the NHL against Monday Night Football, that's truly insane. Why not make it a different night like Tuesday or Wednesday? I don't get it.

[JeffR]

They need a lil Crosby except instead of selling 7up or Sprite, lil Crosby sells Labatt Blue or Molson.

Literally. Penny Hardaway has Barkley-like charisma compared to Crosby. Gretzky was awkward at that age, and Lemieux struggled with English, but I've never seen a more bland cliche-machine than this kid.

[WrongWay]

Literally. Penny Hardaway has Barkley-like charisma compared to Crosby. Gretzky was awkward at that age, and Lemieux struggled with English, but I've never seen a more bland cliche-machine than this kid.
Peyton Manning comes to mind. OF course I think this kid is way ahead of Peyton at 17 years old. I only really started noticing Peyton his senior year in college.

[ISiddiqui]

Yes, have Hockey Night in America go head-to-head with MNF. That'll get you ratings. :rolleyes:
I think they are banking on the fact that some of the late season MNF matchups really end up sucking and if it is on ESPN, it'll get lower interest anyway. Though, that being said, move Hockey Night to Tuesday.

[henry296]

They need a lil Crosby except instead of selling 7up or Sprite, lil Crosby sells Labatt Blue or Molson.

Saw the following on Kuklas (from the Philly Inquirer),


Yes, have Hockey Night in America go head-to-head with MNF. That'll get you ratings. :rolleyes:

Plus the new games on Monday Night will be the quality of the current Sunday night games since they will be on ESPN and not ABC. The prime NFL games will be on Sunday starting in 2006.

[Karim]

According to the following article, the NHL has actually come out ahead:
http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001016934

ESPN was not only unwilling to pay as much as OLN, but it was also not able to meet some of the provisions that OLN had agreed to with the NHL. Among them, a provision that if agreed to, would require ESPN to carry all NHL games on ESPN. Comcast is also expected to offer two games a night via streaming video on the Internet. Another part of the Comcast/OLN deal would reportedly insure that if the NHL starts up an NHL Network, that Comcast would distribute that network on a digital tier on all of its systems. ESPN could not match that because it does not own cable systems. The OLN bid, according to sources, also includes a provision that Comcast offer NHL shoulder programming and some games On Demand to its 22 million subscribers, and would also include a broadband component, including possible video streaming of NHL games.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[ISiddiqui]

I wonder if the "On Demand" is for highlights (like it does with NFL Network) or the entire game! If it's the whole game, that'd be great!

[thealmighty]

oh I agree, and, don't forget, the NHL is involved as well, increasing the "we're going to fuck this up" quotient exponentially. Not that Comcast needs help - the speed with which they utterly destroyed TechTV is quite impressive.
I never knew what happened to TechTV. Now I do. Used to watch it all the time and now I may watch it for a minute until I remember how much it sucks now and turn the channel. :(

[RPI-Fan]

I never knew what happened to TechTV. Now I do. Used to watch it all the time and now I may watch it for a minute until I remember how much it sucks now and turn the channel. :(

What is on TechTV now? I remember when we first got digital cable about two years ago it was on and generally was pretty entertaining. But I did notice the shitti-ness factor increasing, and stopped watching, and now I don't think Timewarner even carries it anymore!

~rpi-fan

[henry296]

What is on TechTV now? I remember when we first got digital cable about two years ago it was on and generally was pretty entertaining. But I did notice the shitti-ness factor increasing, and stopped watching, and now I don't think Timewarner even carries it anymore!

~rpi-fan

TechTV was merged with Comcast's G4 network, so if TimeWarner has the channel, it would probably be called G4.

[RPI-Fan]

TechTV was merged with Comcast's G4 network, so if TimeWarner has the channel, it would probably be called G4.

Ah, we do have that. I thought it was like all video games though?

[Draft Dodger]

Ah, we do have that. I thought it was like all video games though?

sadly, it is.

[sabotai]

NHL Monday Night "Hockey Night" - I thought it retarded at first, but when you think about it, some of the late season MNF matchups drop in ratings due to some unexpected mismatches and lame duck games. Not only that, but since the "MNF season" ends in December, and hockey lasts into March, they could get some carry over fans looking to fill their Monday night thirst for sports. "What do we do now? Eh, let's try hockey"

But that said, having it on a different night would have probably have been better. I love hockey, but all things being equal, football vs. hockey gets a nod towards football in my case.

NHL Network - If they do this, cool. But since I don't have digital cable, it won't effect me. At least yet. But if the NHL network also covers all of hockey (and not just NHL), especially AHL, ECHL and the CHL...that would be totally bad ass!

TechTV - Comcast bought the channel, merged it with G4. Instantly killed off most of the programming, although kept a few shows. For a short time it was called G4TectTV. Then one-by-one, the TectTV shows disappeared and was quickly named back to simply G4. Now all that's left is "Attack Of The Show", which used to be called "The Screensavers". And that show has gone completely to shit. Unwatchable, IMO. I used to love that show when Patrick and Leo were on it. Makes you wonder why Comcast bought it if they were just going to kill it off (just wanted to increase the exposure of G4 I guess?)

[sterlingice]

The Monday premiere of ESPN2's much-hyped ESPN Hollywood, a sort of Access Hollywood for sports, drew 0.08% of cable TV households. That translates to 75,000 households, which happens to be the standard industry projection for the number of homes where viewing levels are determined by pets accidentally hitting TV remotes I didn't realize there is an industry projection for the number of homes where viewing levels are determined by pets accidentally hitting tv remotes. As it is, maybe this is genius marketing by ESPN to start trying to capture the untapped pet tv market! Certainly worth throwing the NHL fans under the bus.

SI

[HomerJSimpson]

NHL Monday Night "Hockey Night" - I thought it retarded at first, but when you think about it, some of the late season MNF matchups drop in ratings due to some unexpected mismatches and lame duck games. Not only that, but since the "MNF season" ends in December, and hockey lasts into March, they could get some carry over fans looking to fill their Monday night thirst for sports. "What do we do now? Eh, let's try hockey"

But that said, having it on a different night would have probably have been better. I love hockey, but all things being equal, football vs. hockey gets a nod towards football in my case.

NHL Network - If they do this, cool. But since I don't have digital cable, it won't effect me. At least yet. But if the NHL network also covers all of hockey (and not just NHL), especially AHL, ECHL and the CHL...that would be totally bad ass!

TechTV - Comcast bought the channel, merged it with G4. Instantly killed off most of the programming, although kept a few shows. For a short time it was called G4TectTV. Then one-by-one, the TectTV shows disappeared and was quickly named back to simply G4. Now all that's left is "Attack Of The Show", which used to be called "The Screensavers". And that show has gone completely to shit. Unwatchable, IMO. I used to love that show when Patrick and Leo were on it. Makes you wonder why Comcast bought it if they were just going to kill it off (just wanted to increase the exposure of G4 I guess?)


Increase the distribution of G4, and get rid of its closest competitor. I would say between the two formats, I'm sure G4 had more desirable demo's than Tech TV. Sad, really.

[WrongWay]

Here is some Crosby info for all those saying this kid will make no difference.

On Cold Pizza this morning they reported that the Pittsburgh Penguins have sold 500,000 tickets since Crosby was drafted. That is a half million to you and me. It made news because since the draft finished the Penguins have now sold more tickets than they did for the entire 2003-2004 season.

I would also bet that many other teams around the country are filling up fast when the Pens are in town.

[bronconick]

The other thing to remember about "Monday Night Football" is that when it moves to ESPN, it's MNF in name only. The "marquee" matchup that you see on MNF now is going to be on Sunday nights on NBC. The monday night game will be the equivalent of ESPN's current Sunday night football.

It'll still crush the NHL ratings (it's football, after all) but they're not going up against the highest rated regular season sports event that MNF is right now.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Here is some Crosby info for all those saying this kid will make no difference.

On Cold Pizza this morning they reported that the Pittsburgh Penguins have sold 500,000 tickets since Crosby was drafted. That is a half million to you and me. It made news because since the draft finished the Penguins have now sold more tickets than they did for the entire 2003-2004 season.

I would also bet that many other teams around the country are filling up fast when the Pens are in town.
Oh, great. I have to start buying tickets for Penguins games now. The problem for me is that I live 45 minutes away from Mellon Arena, and I don't usually know if I'm going to feel like making that drive. It's more likely to be a last-minute thing if I decide to go to a Penguins game. I might not get to see Crosby as much as I thought.

[WrongWay]

It'll still crush the NHL ratings (it's football, after all) but they're not going up against the highest rated regular season sports event that MNF is right now.
What you talkin bout Willis :D


Sorry, but The WWF's Monday Night Raw has constantly been beating ABC's MNF in the rating's department for the past 2 years.

[bronconick]

What you talkin bout Willis :D


Sorry, but The WWF's Monday Night Raw has constantly been beating ABC's MNF in the rating's department for the past 2 years. I don't suppose you have a link for that?

I find it hard to believe that a cable show garners double digit ratings, considering MNF averaged "only" 11.1 in 2004.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/19/commentary/column_sportsbiz/sportsbiz/

I mean, here you have Monday Night Raw barely beating preseason football on ESPN from last thursday.

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272%7C%7C%7Ccable,00.html



<table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="1" bordercolor="#336633" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr><td align="center">2
</td> <td>WWE ENTERTAINMENT (WWE RAW ZONE)
</td> <td>SPIKE
</td> <td>MON
</td> <td align="right">10:00 PM
</td> <td align="right">3.1
</td> <td align="right">3,436,000
</td> <td align="right">5,089,000
</td></tr></tbody> </table>
<table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="1" bordercolor="#336633" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr><td align="center">5
</td> <td>NFL PRE-SEASON FOOTBALL (CHARGERS/PACKERS)
</td> <td>ESPN
</td> <td>THU
</td> <td align="right">8:00 PM

</td> <td align="right">3.0
</td> <td align="right">3,313,000
</td> <td align="right">4,264,000
</td></tr></tbody> </table> <table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="1" bordercolor="#336633" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr><td align="center">7
</td> <td>WWE ENTERTAINMENT (WWE RAW)
</td> <td>SPIKE
</td> <td>MON
</td> <td align="right">9:00 PM
</td> <td align="right">2.9
</td> <td align="right">3,141,000
</td> <td align="right">4,759,000
</td></tr></tbody> </table>


And here's ABC's "Hall of fame" game from that same monday.

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||weekly,00.html

<table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="1" bordercolor="#336633" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr><td align="center">9
</td> <td>AFC-NFC HALL OF FAME GAME(S)
</td> <td>ABC
</td> <td>Mon
</td> <td align="right">8:08 PM
</td> <td align="right">6.2/11.0
</td> <td align="right">6,846,000
</td> <td align="right">9,104,000
</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[sterlingice]

Or last year's season-to-date numbers for MNF (since the season's about to restart, this is for last year):

<table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="1" bordercolor="#336633" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr><td align="center">10
</td> <td>NFL MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL
</td> <td>ABC
</td> <td>Mon
</td> <td align="right">9:07 PM
</td> <td align="right">10.9/18
</td> <td align="right">11,974,000
</td> <td align="right">16,382,000
</td> <td align="right">16
</td> <td align="right">2889m
</td></tr></tbody> </table>
SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

SI - I believe he's right in that Raw did beat MNF on a number of occasions, but I'm also almost positive that happened more than 2 years ago, it would have been right around the peak of wrestling's popularity (and I think the decline has been in progress for more than 2 years).

[sterlingice]

SI - I believe he's right in that Raw did beat MNF on a number of occasions, but I'm also almost positive that happened more than 2 years ago, it would have been right around the peak of wrestling's popularity (and I think the decline has been in progress for more than 2 years).
I don't check ratings nearly as often as you do, but it seems so remote of a shot. I guess I could see them winning in the 18-35 demo from time to time but to have them win in overall viewers? I remember seeing RAW pull down 4-5M and I suppose it's possible it beat some late season clunker but it just seems so out there.

SI

[Mr. Wednesday]

What you talkin bout Willis :D


Sorry, but The WWF's Monday Night Raw has constantly been beating ABC's MNF in the rating's department for the past 2 years.Yeah, but he said it was the highest rated regular-season sports event. :p

[JonInMiddleGA]

I guess I could see them winning in the 18-35 demo from time to time but to have them win in overall viewers? I remember seeing RAW pull down 4-5M and I suppose it's possible it beat some late season clunker but it just seems so out there.

I haven't found the specific reference yet, and I'm working from a memory that gets a little foggier everytime I get another day older, but it looks like it would have likely been in 2001. I found a reference to Raw beating MNF by 47% in M12-24 that's from that time frame, and that's actually more recent than when I believe RAW may have peaked (more like 2000 maybe, as WCW was dying off).

Like I said, my memory is to the point that it's not reliable, and there's certainly a very good chance that it was only select demo's rather than total households.

[WrongWay]

I just remember reading how on Monday nights the WWF's Raw was beating both Monday night Football and WCW's Monday night Nitro.


Now, speaking of ESPN's current "Chase the next Fad" idea, besides having hours of poker, you can also look forward to seeing a lot more competitive eating contests. ESPN has reportedly shoving a huge amount of money into this Federation of Eaters.

Funny, both on this board and elsewhere, when I conmplained about how bad I thought ESPN programming was becomming people quickly blamed it on the Hockey Strike. Saying that ESPN had to fill the void that the NHL Strike was causing.