SkyDog is still a dictator...

[Franklinnoble]

For starters, I'm calling out the weasel who reported capsicum to SkyDog. Because I know that's how this all got started, and if you've got a problem with something she has to say, let's get it out in the open already and knock off the "I'm gonna tell teacher on you..." crap.

Capsicum, in case anyone hasn't already figured it out (and she's left plenty of clues to this effect), is my wife. And, yes, she's as obnoxiously conservative as I am. ;)

Now, as I figure it, one or more of you figured her for someone else, and reported it to Ben. Fine. Whatever. You have a problem with a dissenting opinion, and you don't like how it's stated, so you cry to daddy about it. I get that. But she stated she was the wife of someone here - and it seems like nobody wanted to take her word for it.

My first problem with Ben is that he saw the complaint, and rather than doing much to investigate the issue, he banned her account. She e-mailed him (very politely) to ask why, and got no reply. So, I PM'ed SkyDog, and he reduced the banning to a suspension.

The problem with that, is that my wife hasn't said anything more offensive than any one of the "regulars" says around here on an hourly basis. So I asked him to review her posts, and re-consider. He did, and to his credit, he removed the suspension.

But here's the second problem - capsicum did nothing wrong. She got banned, then suspended, then finally re-instated, but received no apology from Ben. Now, Ben explained to me that he suspected the wigs, because she's a self-proclaimed Vikings fan in her signature, and immediately got embroiled in some heated political discussions. He told me it's happened so often, he just doesn't give it a second thought much anymore, and that's why there was a ban.

Ben, if you don't have time to at least send an e-mail or a warning or some other notice prior to banning somebody, then maybe it's time to let someone with more time on their hands take over for a while (JeeberD doesn't seem to have much better to do ;)). Because you were pretty quick with the trigger, and you didn't even bother to apologize to my wife afterwards, even after I suggested you might want to do so.

[Schmidty]

I saved your post in case it gets deleted.

Don't expect anything from SD. He is perfect in every way.

[Philliesfan980]

This might go down as one of the most viewed threads in FOFC history (assuming that it doesn't get deleted)

I got nothing.

[JeeberD]

Don't drag me into this shit, Franky... :D

[Glengoyne]

here here Franklin... Or is it Hear Hear?

Your wife does indeed deserve an apology. Of course you should have gone to Ben privately with this before here. But you are right in my opinion. He was wrong, and he should have apologized for taking action as he did.

[Joe]

He never responded to my emails when I was suspended either, I just figured it's his policy.

[panerd]

All the problems started when the guys started bringing their girlfriends and wives here. Do you guys spend football Sundays with the guys and gals also?

(The above was written somewhat toungue in cheek)

And kudos to the much picked on Skydog. This has to be the most spam-free, troll-free board I have ever been a member of. If Skydog makes unpopular decisions that seem to keep the peace for 99.9% of the board more power to him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just another example of why the political threads need to disappear completely.

FWIW, I didn't realize that was your wife -- I didn't peg it to the Wigs either, actually had another suspect or two in mind to be honest -- so I can find it easily believeable that he didn't pick up who it was either.

Aside from that, except for being reasonably convinced that it was a doppleganger for a banned poster, there was nothing ban worthy or suspension worthy that I saw ... except that, like most long-running forums, there's pretty much two sets of rules: one for newbs & one for regulars. In my experience, the usual phase after that is that the board collapses on itself (I've got at least two forums in mind when I say that, both larger,busier, and more contentious than this one in their heydays). YMMV, but that's what I've watched happen in those cases.

In any event, I'm sorry to find out about the turn of events, it was nice to see someone posting who had both good thoughts and the courage of conviction to speak their mind.

[Franklinnoble]

Don't drag me into this shit, Franky... :D
Sorry, Jeebs... I thought my endorsement of you as moderator was a pretty gracious thing, seeing as how you're a Cowboys fan and all. :D

As for the deleted thread thing - she DID apologize for that in another thread, and stated her reasons for doing so (namely, that it had dissolved in to a bunch of juvenile name calling by page 6 or so - and she took responsibility for that herself as well).

[JonInMiddleGA]

This has to be the most spam-free, troll-free board I have ever been a member of.

I'll give you the spam-free part (if you mean "I found a great way to make money" spam) but "troll-free"? Jiminy Christmas, you must have really been a member of some hellish troll zones if this looks troll free to you.

[Poli]

1, 2, 3....18 members and 4 guests.

Sweet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

1, 2, 3....18 members and 4 guests.
Sweet.

Uh-uh. 17 & 2.

:D

[Schmidty]

About 2 years ago, one of my friends from work posted some political stuff, and was banned and I was warned privately for dubious reasons. I PMed SD about it since the guy had posted from his laptop and I had always posted from one of the comps in the hotel's business room. Anyway, he checked the IPs and realized that they weren't the same, yet he never apologized or acted like he did anything wrong. My friend was so pissed he didn't even want his account restored.

I needed to get that off my chest as it has always bothered me.

[Franklinnoble]

here here Franklin... Or is it Hear Hear?

Your wife does indeed deserve an apology. Of course you should have gone to Ben privately with this before here. But you are right in my opinion. He was wrong, and he should have apologized for taking action as he did.
Thanks - like I said, I did take it up with Ben privately at first this morning. I did ask him to apologize. When it didn't happen, I waited all day to post this, because I didn't want to fly off the handle with anything angry - but it's about 8 hours later now, and I'm still ticked about it. He made a mistake. Yes, he fixed it - but it wouldn't have been too hard to include "Sorry about that..." in his PM to my wife.

[DaddyTorgo]

i have nothing to add, except that I think JiMG (i think it was him) was right when he said there are two sets of rules on this board, one for newbs and one for regulars. And I'm not sure I like that. But I'm not sure what the practical solution to that is.

[Schmidty]

Dola

I know that being a mod is thankless work, but at least one can be a slight bit personable.

[Ben E Lou]

My first problem with Ben is that he saw the complaint, and rather than doing much to investigate the issue, he banned her account.Not true. I checked the IP and looked at 5 or 10 posts from her. As I told you, I had the following set of facts:

1. a brand-new person who immediately had become embroiled in controversy (strike one)
2. a brand-new person who took a swipe at a mod within her first 10-15 posts (strike two)
3. an untraceable IP
4. a Vikings fan
5. a handful of one-sentence cutting posts (#3+#4+#5 equalled strike three, due to sylistic similarities)

Considering that this person had contributed nothing of value to the community yet, the ban was a no-brainer.

She e-mailed him (very politely) to ask why, and got no reply. So, I PM'ed SkyDog, and he reduced the banning to a suspension.Hmmmm...let's see. Reported post e-mail received at 12:54PM. E-mail received from her at 1:29PM. PM received from you at....1:22PM. Interesting.

But here's the second problem - capsicum did nothing wrong. She got banned, then suspended, then finally re-instated, but received no apology from Ben.
{snip}
Because you were pretty quick with the trigger, and you didn't even bother to apologize to my wife afterwards, even after I suggested you might want to do so.I always apologize when I felt I have acted incorrectly. Given the set of facts I had, I feel that I acted appropriately. I prefer not to give insincere apologies out just to make people feel good.

[Schmidty]

Thanks - like I said, I did take it up with Ben privately at first this morning. I did ask him to apologize. When it didn't happen, I waited all day to post this, because I didn't want to fly off the handle with anything angry - but it's about 8 hours later now, and I'm still ticked about it. He made a mistake. Yes, he fixed it - but it wouldn't have been too hard to include "Sorry about that..." in his PM to my wife.

If someone had done that to my wife, I would have went way more ballistic then you did. That's why I tell her to never post here. SD would ban her and I'd have to get crazy.

[panerd]

I'll give you the spam-free part (if you mean "I found a great way to make money" spam) but "troll-free"? Jiminy Christmas, you must have really been a member of some hellish troll zones if this looks troll free to you.

OK, maybe not troll-free. But the trolls are taken care of. When people (even people with 10,000 posts) break rules they are suspended. When someone just starts a thread to be a jackass they are banned. Obviously this situation sounds a little different, but asking for a public apology instead of privately going about it seems a little grandstandy. Of course everyone will jump all over Skydog in this thread, but he had his reasons for the ban and then reversed his descision. Seems to be a non-issue, end of story.

[Samdari]

I feel that I acted appropriately.

Who had this in the pool?

Everyone?

Ok, never mind.

[Flasch186]

i missed a politcial thread that was contoversial?

[Schmidty]

Not true. I checked the IP and looked at 5 or 10 posts from her. As I told you, I had the following set of facts:

1. a brand-new person who immediately had become embroiled in controversy (strike one)
2. a brand-new person who took a swipe at a mod within her first 10-15 posts (strike two)
3. an untraceable IP
4. a Vikings fan
5. a handful of one-sentence cutting posts (#3+#4+#5 equalled strike three, due to sylistic similarities)

Considering that this person had contributed nothing of value to the community yet, the ban was a no-brainer.

Hmmmm...let's see. Reported post e-mail received at 12:54PM. E-mail received from her at 1:29PM. PM received from you at....1:22PM. Interesting.

I always apologize when I felt I have acted incorrectly. Given the set of facts I had, I feel that I acted appropriately. I prefer not to give insincere apologies out just to make people feel good.

Being a mod in a community like this means that sometimes you need to do things you don't want to do. It's politics and if you don't have the stomache for it, maybe you shouldn't be a mod. Leave it to someone like Ryan.

You've already chased off good members like Marmel, please step down before you lose more.

[Joe]

dang, being a vikings fan is a banable offense now? this sucks :(

[Ben E Lou]

Being a mod in a community like this means that sometimes you need to do things you don't want to do. It's politics and if you don't have the stomache for it, maybe you shouldn't be a mod. Leave it to someone like Ryan.1. Seriously, do you think she wanted a completely insincere apology?
2. Later in the afternoon, Ryan saw the reported posts, too, and his response was to ghost-ban her. I IM'ed and said, "Uh, that won't work. At some point Franklin is going to ask her why she quit posting." :D

[Schmidty]

1. Seriously, do you think she wanted a completely insincere apology?
2. Later in the afternoon, Ryan saw the reported posts, too, and his response was to ghost-ban her. I IM'ed and said, "Uh, that won't work. At some point Franklin is going to ask her why she quit posting." :D

I don't know. I just looked at this as a husband with a wife who is waaaay more conservative then he is and would be pissed if this happened to her.

[Draft Dodger]

Dola

I know that being a mod is thankless work, but at least one can be a slight bit personable.

even though it's Schmidty, he's 100% correct.

[Schmidty]

even though it's Schmidty, he's 100% correct.

I still hate you.

[Honolulu_Blue]

In any event, I'm sorry to find out about the turn of events, it was nice to see someone posting who had both good thoughts and the courage of conviction to speak their mind.
She deleted a thread which costs me posts. Good posts. I think Skydog was in the right here. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

Also, what in the hell is Franklinoble doing married to Bubba Wheels wife? How incestous has our little circle become?

[JonInMiddleGA]

... and his response was to ghost-ban her.

Well, that's a pretty good job of throwing him under the bus with you ;)

I like you Ben & I really do you believe your intentions are good 99.9% of the time, but ya'll both fucked up on this one IMO.

Please, take this opportunity & 1,000 others just like it & ban the politcal threads for good.

Failing that, then make them free-fire zones, because trying to ban people from what's said in them is either a full-time job or one that's going to be problematic because it isn't enforced consistently.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well, that's a pretty good job of throwing him under the bus with you ;)

I like you Ben & I really do you believe your intentions are good 99.9% of the time, but ya'll both fucked up on this one IMO.

Please, take this opportunity & 1,000 others just like it & ban the politcal threads for good.

Failing that, then make them free-fire zones, because trying to ban people from what's said in them is either a full-time job or one that's going to be problematic because it isn't enforced consistently.
i gotta agree with this. I think the political threads ought to either be gone, or all political threads should be clearly labeled as such and should be "free fire, ban-free" zones. at least with regards to the political speech in them. Otherwise inconsistencies will arise.

[McSweeny]

i thought we all agreed to grow thick skin after the jbmagic apologies...

i grew some thick skin and with that i say........

NON-ISSUE

that is all

[Draft Dodger]

I still hate you.

ah, but not enough for your ignore list!

[Schmidty]

ah, but not enough for your ignore list!

That's only reserved for Mr. Chubby. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

ah, but not enough for your ignore list!

Not neccessarily, all we have to do is click on the "view post" button.

[Schmidty]

Failing that, then make them free-fire zones, because trying to ban people from what's said in them is either a full-time job or one that's going to be problematic because it isn't enforced consistently.

What was said? I might change my mind if I knew. ;)

[panerd]

i thought we all agreed to grow thick skin after the jbmagic apologies...

i grew some thick skin and with that i say........

NON-ISSUE

that is all

Agree and if all you really want is an explanation you would just delete this thread now. Skydog responded to you and said what he is going to say. Anything more is just grandstanding by everyone.

[Draft Dodger]

Not neccessarily, all we have to do is click on the "view post" button.

we?

[Ben E Lou]

Well, that's a pretty good job of throwing him under the bus with you ;)Heh. Throw him under the bus??? I was braggin' on him! I'm quite proud of the young fella! :D

Please, take this opportunity & 1,000 others just like it & ban the politcal threads for good.

Failing that, then make them free-fire zones, because trying to ban people from what's said in them is either a full-time job or one that's going to be problematic because it isn't enforced consistently.I hate to ban discussion, as *sometimes* it actually can be non-inflammatory. However, I don't come close to reading all of the political stuff. (For that matter, I don't come close to reading every thread here. Who, except JeeberD, could?) I try to let this be as anything-goes as possible, and generally don't issue disciplinary measures until I feel forced to. (FWIW, other than that gross sexual thread a few weeks ago, I'm not sure I've seen as many reported posts about one person as I did today.)

[stevew]

Just another example of why the political threads need to disappear completely.

Yep

[Mr. Sparkle]

My opinion...if the offender were some random newbie with no ties to any other members of the community, especially a prominent one, no one would have even noticed the banning/suspension/whatever. I hadn't seen anything from the person that couldn't be constrewed as trying to stir up trouble (other than a weak parody post), so I wasn't batting much of an eye over this whole ordeal.

That being said, I'd have no problem making political posts a free for all, because someone is always invariably going to be upset over any administrative decisions based on the contents within them.

[Chubby]

That's only reserved for Mr. Chubby. :)
sweet! http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_thumbsup.gif

[JeeberD]

However, I don't come close to reading all of the political stuff. (For that matter, I don't come close to reading every thread here. Who, except JeeberD, could?)

Good lord, not even I delve into the political crap here...

[Klinglerware]

My opinion...if the offender were some random newbie with no ties to any other members of the community, especially a prominent one, no one would have even noticed the banning/suspension/whatever. I hadn't seen anything from the person that couldn't be constrewed as trying to stir up trouble (other than a weak parody post), so I wasn't batting much of an eye over this whole ordeal.

That being said, I'd have no problem making political posts a free for all, because someone is always invariably going to be upset over any administrative decisions based on the contents within them.

Agree completely w/ both paragraphs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I hate to ban discussion, as *sometimes* it actually can be non-inflammatory. However, I don't come close to reading all of the political stuff.

But here's where that puts us ... every time I don't care for something in a political thread, I start reporting it & complaining about it. And (just picking an opposite number at random here) Blackadar does the same. If I wanted to "mobilize" the handful of those on the right here to raise the complaint totals on certain posters I don't think it'd be all that hard to do. Same situation for the left side of the aisle. There's legit bannable offenses for trolling in virtually every political thread here, probably half or more are blantant trolling from the very first post.

I really don't know if "complaints received" is a standard you're going to like having set here, might make your PM's border on unmanageable.

[Ben E Lou]

But here's where that puts us ... every time I don't care for something in a political thread, I start reporting it & complaining about it. And (just picking an opposite number at random here) Blackadar does the same. If I wanted to "mobilize" the handful of those on the right here to raise the complaint totals on certain posters I don't think it'd be all that hard to do. Same situation for the left side of the aisle. There's legit bannable offenses for trolling in virtually every political thread here, probably half or more are blantant trolling from the very first post.

I really don't know if "complaints received" is a standard you're going to like having set here, might make your PM's border on unmanageable.I *think* I've said this before, but it bears repeating: I'm guessing that I act on less than half of the complaints received. I'm not sure how often we get reported posts/PM's but I'm pretty sure the last one I received before the round of 'em today was about the ESPN pay site stuff, and the last ones before that might have been the deviant thread. It isn't bad at all.

[Franklinnoble]

My opinion...if the offender were some random newbie with no ties to any other members of the community, especially a prominent one, no one would have even noticed the banning/suspension/whatever. I hadn't seen anything from the person that couldn't be constrewed as trying to stir up trouble (other than a weak parody post), so I wasn't batting much of an eye over this whole ordeal.

That being said, I'd have no problem making political posts a free for all, because someone is always invariably going to be upset over any administrative decisions based on the contents within them. For starters, I'm not grandstanding here. I waited all day to post this, and I put a lot of thought into it. I discussed it with my wife at length. The bottom line is that SkyDog screwed up, and all I wanted was an apology. What really pisses me off is that he's now coming off so self-righteous as to presume he did nothing wrong. Aside from the Vikings fan thing, name one thing on that list of "strikes" that you haven't done yourself at some point, Ben...

You make a good point - if capsicum hadn't been my wife, this would have gone unnoticed - and there's a great injustice in that. Do we only grant courteous behaviour to those of us who are a member of the "f!cking elitists" club? We need to be fair and just with EVERYONE. Look at the complex jbmagic has now - and he appears to just be some poor newb who got on SD's bad side.

Again - it's a tough, time consuming job. I get that. If you can't take the time to be fair with everyone, then you're not equipped to be the moderator, and you should let someone else try for a while. You might enjoy the break. But I think maybe you enjoy the control trip a little too much at this point.

[Poli]

22 members and 3 guests. Sweet. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

It isn't bad at all.

Correction: it hasn't been bad at all.

But if complaints are a standard for getting offensive posters whacked, as your mention of the complaints seems to indicate ... well, that opens a whole new ballgame about the use of complaints, sure as shootin' multiplies my motivation for them about a hundredfold.

You gotta go the way you see fit, I'm just sayin my two cents worth.

[Chubby]

For starters, I'm not grandstanding here. I waited all day to post this, and I put a lot of thought into it. I discussed it with my wife at length. The bottom line is that SkyDog screwed up, and all I wanted was an apology. What really pisses me off is that he's now coming off so self-righteous as to presume he did nothing wrong. Aside from the Vikings fan thing, name one thing on that list of "strikes" that you haven't done yourself at some point, Ben...

You make a good point - if capsicum hadn't been my wife, this would have gone unnoticed - and there's a great injustice in that. Do we only grant courteous behaviour to those of us who are a member of the "f!cking elitists" club? We need to be fair and just with EVERYONE. Look at the complex jbmagic has now - and he appears to just be some poor newb who got on SD's bad side.

Again - it's a tough, time consuming job. I get that. If you can't take the time to be fair with everyone, then you're not equipped to be the moderator, and you should let someone else try for a while. You might enjoy the break. But I think maybe you enjoy the control trip a little too much at this point.
Various people (including me) have been through this over the years, you unfortunately are the latest. I agree with everything you've said and am not surprised in the least how any of this has played out, Samdari's post pretty much sums it up.

[Franklinnoble]

22 members and 3 guests. Sweet. :)
FYI - capsicum saw your post in Shorty's ping thread, and she tells me I should keep writing.

So, I'll see if I can get an update out sometime this week.

[Schmidty]

I *think* I've said this before, but it bears repeating: I'm guessing that I act on less than half of the complaints received. I'm not sure how often we get reported posts/PM's but I'm pretty sure the last one I received before the round of 'em today was about the ESPN pay site stuff, and the last ones before that might have been the deviant thread. It isn't bad at all.

I find it very interesting and perhaps very telling that the only person SD answers to fully is JIMGA.

Or not. I don't know.

[Poli]

We lost Marmel? :(

[Ben E Lou]

For starters, I'm not grandstanding here. I waited all day to post this, and I put a lot of thought into it. I discussed it with my wife at length. The bottom line is that SkyDog screwed up, and all I wanted was an apology. What really pisses me off is that he's now coming off so self-righteous as to presume he did nothing wrong. Aside from the Vikings fan thing, name one thing on that list of "strikes" that you haven't done yourself at that point, Ben...The one thing I've been bouncing around in my head is that I probably should have left her suspended. The *only* reasonshe got un-suspended was that you wrote me.

You make a good point - if capsicum hadn't been my wife, this would have gone unnoticed - and there's a great injustice in that. Do we only grant courteous behaviour to those of us who are a member of the "f!cking elitists" club?Well, according to you, I wasn't courteous to her. I wrote her a PM. I just didn't say the words, "I'm sorry," because, well, I'm not sorry. It would have been a lie to have said that I am. That being said, this is the internet. Idiots abound. It is perfectly reasonable to to be more swift and harsh in punishing questionable behavior in those who have earned no capital.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

We could just ban all the wives....oh wait.

[kcchief19]

Not true. I checked the IP and looked at 5 or 10 posts from her. As I told you, I had the following set of facts:

1. a brand-new person who immediately had become embroiled in controversy (strike one)
2. a brand-new person who took a swipe at a mod within her first 10-15 posts (strike two)
3. an untraceable IP
4. a Vikings fan
5. a handful of one-sentence cutting posts (#3+#4+#5 equalled strike three, due to sylistic similarities)

Considering that this person had contributed nothing of value to the community yet, the ban was a no-brainer.

Hmmmm...let's see. Reported post e-mail received at 12:54PM. E-mail received from her at 1:29PM. PM received from you at....1:22PM. Interesting. Yeah, sure sounds like he didn't investigate at all, just like FN said. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

JIMGA and I are on a roll lately. For as politically polar we are, we've agreed on a lot of things lately and this is one. I think this place would be more fun without the political threads because they just create too much drama and cause too many conflicts and accomplish very little. I don't think any minds are changed; I think they just help reaffirm the tightly held positions people already hold.

I do differ in that I have no problem with how Ben handled this. He had reasons for taking the action he did and I agree that FN's wife's account showed classic signs of a troll: a new account immediately gets in the middle of a controversey they helped start. It sounds like he considered the situation carefully, took action, then took a corrective action based on new evidence. Why should he apologize for doing his "job"? And I use the quote marks because it's not a job; he and Ryan get the grief but don't get a lot of glory.

I've disagreed with some of Ben's decisions in the past and I wrongly aired those griefs in public. I think it's better to handle these things privately. If I have had a concern lately with Ben I've brought it up privately and politely and I appreciate and respect his responses. The only real reason to air them publicly is to draw attention to yourself. If a moderator decision upsets you that much, the Internet's a big place.

There are a lot of mods that wouldn't allow the bitching about mod decisions that Ben and Ryan do. That's a credit to them.

[Honolulu_Blue]

That being said, this is the internet. Idiots abound. It is perfectly reasonable to to be more swift and harsh in punishing questionable behavior in those who have earned no capital.
Much truth can be found in these two sentences above.

[Schmidty]

SMOOOOOOOOCH!!!

Damn wolverine.

[Draft Dodger]

We could just ban all the wives....oh wait.

except for Loren, pls.







(kidding - I dig all the chicks here)

[Ben E Lou]

We lost Marmel? :(View Profile: Marmel <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(139, 26, 26);" colspan="2" width="100%"> Marmel
GM
</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td> </td> <td class="smallfont" align="right" valign="bottom"> Last Activity: Today 10:04 PM
Offline
</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[flere-imsaho]

Odd. I was about to post in this thread explaining why it was me who "ratted her out", but then I read this:

Thanks - like I said, I did take it up with Ben privately at first this morning.

I PM'ed SkyDog this evening around 6. I PM'ed him to ask him how he could warn me about "almost" trolling in this thread (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=38521&page=2&highlight=runaway+bride), yet not take any action over this:

Maybe the TALIBAN ARE DEMOCRATS???

And the subsequent "apology":

Comment was made tongue in cheek....Altho I must say the new Iraqi President Jalal Talabani sounds like a few of the Liberal Democrats of late.

I mean yeah, teehee, REPUBLICANS ARE NAZIS!!!


I stand by my complaint (which may not have been the only one).

1. capsicum has 22 posts (not including those deleted in the thread she deleted). Virtually every other one is a personal attack on another poster.

2. capsicum has shown no interest in actually discussing issues (which even Dutch & JIMG, two posters with which I have serious problems, actually do. Hell Franklin, even you don't do this.), instead preferring to take cheap shots at posters.

capsicum's actions are as clear a definition of trolling as there is.


Franklin, I'm sorry this had to happen to your wife. But you could have given her some very simple basic pointers about not making an ass of oneself online.

[Buccaneer]

We could just ban all the wives....oh wait.
Farrah, shouldn't you be, ummm, popping yet? I remember my mother carrying my little brother through a Phoenix summer and delivered at the end of August. She didn't enjoy that too much.

[Schmidty]

View Profile: Marmel <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(139, 26, 26);" colspan="2" width="100%"> Marmel
GM
</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td> </td> <td class="smallfont" align="right" valign="bottom"> Last Activity: Today 10:04 PM
Offline
</td></tr></tbody> </table>

I should never have spoken for him, and I apologize.

[VPI97]

You've already chased off good members like Marmel, please step down before you lose more.No, it's jackasses like you who have to constantly bitch and moan about everything under God's green earth that have driven people away from this board. I can't tell you how sick and tired I am of seeing what was once a great community turned into the same constant sniping by the same people over and over and over again. You're an asshole, plain and simple...and at this point, I really don't want to come to FOFC and see your same old shit every week.

You people seem to act like this is something more than just a message board...it's like you think it's some private club and the waiter just spit in your snifer of brandy whenever Skydog does something that doesn't please you. This isn't his job, you know...his job is dealing with kids who have had it worse than all of us jackoffs who have the luxury of wasting time here. So what if he doesn't make everyone here happy all of the time? So what if he makes bad decisions at times? Don't we all? Instead of realizing that, every single time someone questions something about the modding here, it the same thread that pops up with the same people taking their shots. You people need to grow up.

[HomerJSimpson]

Yeah, sure sounds like he didn't investigate at all, just like FN said. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

JIMGA and I are on a roll lately. For as politically polar we are, we've agreed on a lot of things lately and this is one. I think this place would be more fun without the political threads because they just create too much drama and cause too many conflicts and accomplish very little. I don't think any minds are changed; I think they just help reaffirm the tightly held positions people already hold.

I do differ in that I have no problem with how Ben handled this. He had reasons for taking the action he did and I agree that FN's wife's account showed classic signs of a troll: a new account immediately gets in the middle of a controversey they helped start. It sounds like he considered the situation carefully, took action, then took a corrective action based on new evidence. Why should he apologize for doing his "job"? And I use the quote marks because it's not a job; he and Ryan get the grief but don't get a lot of glory.

I've disagreed with some of Ben's decisions in the past and I wrongly aired those griefs in public. I think it's better to handle these things privately. If I have had a concern lately with Ben I've brought it up privately and politely and I appreciate and respect his responses. The only real reason to air them publicly is to draw attention to yourself. If a moderator decision upsets you that much, the Internet's a big place.

There are a lot of mods that wouldn't allow the bitching about mod decisions that Ben and Ryan do. That's a credit to them.


Honestly, if we want to end the "drama," lets ban threads whining about the moderation. There has been more drama in these than house full of teenage girls on the rag.

[Mr. Sparkle]

For starters, I'm not grandstanding here. I waited all day to post this, and I put a lot of thought into it. I discussed it with my wife at length. The bottom line is that SkyDog screwed up, and all I wanted was an apology. What really pisses me off is that he's now coming off so self-righteous as to presume he did nothing wrong. Aside from the Vikings fan thing, name one thing on that list of "strikes" that you haven't done yourself at some point, Ben...

You make a good point - if capsicum hadn't been my wife, this would have gone unnoticed - and there's a great injustice in that. Do we only grant courteous behaviour to those of us who are a member of the "f!cking elitists" club? We need to be fair and just with EVERYONE. Look at the complex jbmagic has now - and he appears to just be some poor newb who got on SD's bad side.

Again - it's a tough, time consuming job. I get that. If you can't take the time to be fair with everyone, then you're not equipped to be the moderator, and you should let someone else try for a while. You might enjoy the break. But I think maybe you enjoy the control trip a little too much at this point.


I understand why you might be upset and I too think sometimes SkyDog plays favorites, makes rash decisions, etc. I think what separates this incident from the jbmagic one lies in the fact that jbmagic isn't a "noob", at least not anymore-he's got over 2,000 posts. I've never once seen anything from him that could be viewed as inflammatory. Did he go overboard with his curiosity as to why SkyDog seemed to hate him? Sure. But nothing intentionally trouble making.

You are right that everyone should be dealt with equally regardless of who they are or aren't, if for no other reason than to avoid conflicts like this in the future.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I apologize.
SPARTY!!! SMOOOOOOOOCH!!!

[JeffNights]

An Apology from SkyDog? When will you all learn that he is perfect and any action he takes is 100% always correct.

[cartman]

So, is this Jim's way of guerilla marketing for...

Front Office Board Moderator

Deal with the wig-horde!
Banninate the mega-trolls!
See the ratings drop when position is switched from Grizzled Veteran to Starter!
Hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth when "People Lost Posts"
Decide once and for all... Trout or Colossal Squid!

[HomerJSimpson]

No, it's jackasses like you who have to constantly bitch and moan about everything under God's green earth that have driven people away from this board. I can't tell you how sick and tired I am of seeing what was once a great community turned into the same constant sniping by the same people over and over and over again. You're an asshole, plain and simple...and at this point, I really don't want to come to FOFC and see your same old shit every week.

You people seem to act like this is something more than just a message board...it's like you think it's some private club and the waiter just spit in your snifer of brandy whenever Skydog does something that doesn't please you. This isn't his job, you know...his job is dealing with kids who have had it worse than all of us jackoffs who have the luxury of wasting time here. So what if he doesn't make everyone here happy all of the time? So what if he makes bad decisions at times? Don't we all? Instead of realizing that, every single time someone questions something about the modding here, it the same thread that pops up with the same people taking their shots. You people need to grow up.


Actually, you said it better than I did.

[Buccaneer]

Honestly, if we want to end the "drama," lets ban threads whining about the moderation. There has been more drama in these than house full of teenage girls on the rag.
And while we are at it, can we ban those with thin skins? Please?

[Franklinnoble]

The one thing I've been bouncing around in my head is that I probably should have left her suspended. The *only* reasonshe got un-suspended was that you wrote me.

1. a brand-new person who immediately had become embroiled in controversy (strike one) Bannable? All she did was have a dissenting opinion with some equally controversial posts... funny how none of them got boxed.
2. a brand-new person who took a swipe at a mod within her first 10-15 posts (strike two) Bannable? All she did was weigh in on the jbmagic issue, like, oh, EVERYBODY else here...
3. an untraceable IP Bannable? Guess all the AOL users are screwed now...
4. a Vikings fan Don't even go there...
5. a handful of one-sentence cutting posts (#3+#4+#5 equalled strike three, due to sylistic similarities) You've just described most of the posts on the board.

Ben, nothing she did was a bannable offense around here - whether you've got 1 post or 10,000. You're wrong here, just be an adult, admit it, and we'll move on.


Well, according to you, I wasn't courteous to her. I wrote her a PM. I just didn't say the words, "I'm sorry," because, well, I'm not sorry. It would have been a lie to have said that I am. That being said, this is the internet. Idiots abound. It is perfectly reasonable to to be more swift and harsh in punishing questionable behavior in those who have earned no capital.

The notion of "earning" any fairness around here with a higher post count or some ability to create a third-party utility or whatever is so undemocratic, I can't believe it's coming from you.

[Honolulu_Blue]

No, it's jackasses like you who have to constantly bitch and moan about everything under God's green earth that have driven people away from this board. I can't tell you how sick and tired I am of seeing what was once a great community turned into the same constant sniping by the same people over and over and over again. You're an asshole, plain and simple...and at this point, I really don't want to come to FOFC and see your same old shit every week.

You people seem to act like this is something more than just a message board...it's like you think it's some private club and the waiter just spit in your snifer of brandy whenever Skydog does something that doesn't please you. This isn't his job, you know...his job is dealing with kids who have had it worse than all of us jackoffs who have the luxury of wasting time here. So what if he doesn't make everyone here happy all of the time? So what if he makes bad decisions at times? Don't we all? Instead of realizing that, every single time someone questions something about the modding here, it the same thread that pops up with the same people taking their shots. You people need to grow up.
Agreed.

[Buccaneer]

jbmagic isn't a "noob", at least not anymore-he's got over 2,000 posts.
You have got to be shittin' me?!?!?

[Ben E Lou]

I think what separates this incident from the jbmagic one lies in the fact that jbmagic isn't a "noob", at least not anymore-he's got over 2,000 posts. I've never once seen anything from him that could be viewed as inflammatory. Did he go overboard with his curiosity as to why SkyDog seemed to hate him? Sure. But nothing intentionally trouble making.What also separates this incident from anything involving jbmagic is that at no time have I ever suspended, banned, or even warned him.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

And while we are at it, can we ban those with thin skins? Please?
What? Pop? Are you calling me fat? How could you insult me like that?

:p

[Poli]

View Profile: Marmel <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR> <TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(139,26,26) 1px solid" width="100%" colSpan=2> Marmel

GM

</TD> </TR> <TR vAlign=top> <TD></TD> <TD class=smallfont vAlign=bottom align=right> Last Activity: Today 10:04 PM

Offline

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Sweet! Looks like we didn't lose him after all. :)

[cartman]

What? Pop? Are you calling me fat? How could you insult me like that?

:p

Well, once you pop, that'll take care of the fat part...

:D

[Buccaneer]

What? Pop? Are you calling me fat? How could you insult me like that?

:p
Hell hath no fury like a preggers insulted.

sorry

[Ben E Lou]

The notion of "earning" any fairness around here with a higher post count or some ability to create a third-party utility or whatever is so undemocratic, I can't believe it's coming from you.You're talking out of both sides of your mouth there. You called me a dictator, and expect me to be.....democratic???? Make up your mind. ;)

[Buccaneer]

Hey, except for some old farts that likes to ramble, this is just like an IM chat. KEWL!!!1!!!

[cartman]

Hey, except for some old farts that likes to ramble, this is just like an IM chat. KEWL!!!1!!!

I put on my robe and wizard hat...

[Tigercat]

This thread needs more pitchforks, torches, and alchy. Or maybe I need more alchy while reading this thread?

[Schmidty]

No, it's jackasses like you who have to constantly bitch and moan about everything under God's green earth that have driven people away from this board. I can't tell you how sick and tired I am of seeing what was once a great community turned into the same constant sniping by the same people over and over and over again. You're an asshole, plain and simple...and at this point, I really don't want to come to FOFC and see your same old shit every week.

You people seem to act like this is something more than just a message board...it's like you think it's some private club and the waiter just spit in your snifer of brandy whenever Skydog does something that doesn't please you. This isn't his job, you know...his job is dealing with kids who have had it worse than all of us jackoffs who have the luxury of wasting time here. So what if he doesn't make everyone here happy all of the time? So what if he makes bad decisions at times? Don't we all? Instead of realizing that, every single time someone questions something about the modding here, it the same thread that pops up with the same people taking their shots. You people need to grow up.

You don't even remotely know me Mr. Spaz. Give me an example of me ever criticizing SD, because I think this is the first time publically.

You obviously feel strongly, and if you are so annoyed by me, then don't come back.

[flere-imsaho]

Please, take this opportunity & 1,000 others just like it & ban the politcal threads for good.

Failing that, then make them free-fire zones, because trying to ban people from what's said in them is either a full-time job or one that's going to be problematic because it isn't enforced consistently.

We agree again. Shocking. Maybe it's because I'm currently in a red state on business. :eek:

[Flasch186]

just put POL in front of political threads. if you enter there you do so at your own risk.

done

[Ben E Lou]

Odd. I was about to post in this thread explaining why it was me who "ratted her out", As I said, she was reported multiple times. That's pretty rare, FYI. If I had to guess, I'd say that less than 10 times in the last 2 years have I received multiple reports about the same person on the same day.

[flere-imsaho]

JIMGA and I are on a roll lately. For as politically polar we are, we've agreed on a lot of things lately and this is one. I think this place would be more fun without the political threads because they just create too much drama and cause too many conflicts and accomplish very little. I don't think any minds are changed; I think they just help reaffirm the tightly held positions people already hold.

This is why I too have agreed with JIMG on this point even though we agree on nothing else (well, we appear to agree on NCLB too, which worries me...).

I didn't come here to talk about politics. If you look at my posting history you'll see that I tried to stay out of it for a long time. But I'm also not going to sit around if someone attacks & ridicules my deeply held beliefs. And I don't expect a lot of you are going to do so either.

There's a billion places on the Internet to talk politics. I figured we'd talk football here. This may come as a shock to some of you, but I have Republican friends, and we disagree on a great many things. But when we go out to have a good time we don't talk politics.

As I said in the other thread (perhaps the deleted one), I wouldn't mind one bit if the politics threads went away because there's a fair bit about a good bunch of you I'd just rather not know. And I don't need to know it if we're just talking FOF & football.

[Franklinnoble]

I PM'ed SkyDog this evening around 6. I PM'ed him to ask him how he could warn me about "almost" trolling in this thread (../../%7Efof/forums/showthread.php?t=38521&page=2&highlight=runaway+bride), yet not take any action over this:

Seriously... calling the Democrats or Republicans terrorists (or even inferring as much) is hardly trolling around here.
You make a great point here - you got a warning. Capsicum did not.
More to the point, you shouldn't have even got a warning. It's a political thread. Nearly every response could be seen as "trolling." Get over it.

We agree again. Shocking. Maybe it's because I'm currently in a red state on business. :eek:
You AGREE that we should ban political threads? What ever would you have to talk about anymore? Someone please list the titles of the last 5 threads you've started... please... I'm on a slow connection here.

[Swaggs]

For starters, I'm calling out the weasel who reported capsicum to SkyDog. Because I know that's how this all got started, and if you've got a problem with something she has to say, let's get it out in the open already and knock off the "I'm gonna tell teacher on you..." crap.

Capsicum, in case anyone hasn't already figured it out (and she's left plenty of clues to this effect), is my wife. And, yes, she's as obnoxiously conservative as I am. ;)

Now, as I figure it, one or more of you figured her for someone else, and reported it to Ben. Fine. Whatever. You have a problem with a dissenting opinion, and you don't like how it's stated, so you cry to daddy about it. I get that. But she stated she was the wife of someone here - and it seems like nobody wanted to take her word for it.



I reported capiscum. I didn't know the poster was a female, wife, or what, and I really don't care.

I read through the first post in the"Talabani would oppose Saddam death sentence" (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=42144) thread and began to respond, knew it would turn into left vs right, and let it go. Then, later on, saw the second post, and decided to report it because the poster was acting ignorantly and writing offensive things. It was obvious from the first post that she was trying to stir things up by suggesting that the Talibans might be democrats and clear that she hadn't bothered to read the link, since she didn't realize that the thread had nothing to do with the Taliban. The second post in that thread was even more stupid and inflammatory.

When someone comes in, establishes no identity but polarizing political views, and then says ignorant and offensive things that have nothing to do with the discussion, they are not worthy of a "let's get it out in the open already" discussion, in my opinion. If they are just posting to frustrate or anger posters by doing things like comparing people to the Taliban, they don't deserve the time or energy being given.

I think it is lame that you are looking for an apology. She should apologize and then try to come in and establish her personality on the board before she starts making offensive one-liners.

[cartman]

Get over it.



Hmm.. no truer words have been spoken/written.

Frankly Franky, if you are still worked up after several hours have passed over a slight on an Internet message board, that points to other problems to me, this is being used as an outlet to vent those other frustrations.

Or maybe I've just been watching too much Dr. Phil.

[Buzzbee]

1. a brand-new person who immediately had become embroiled in controversy (strike one) Bannable? All she did was have a dissenting opinion with some equally controversial posts... funny how none of them got boxed.
2. a brand-new person who took a swipe at a mod within her first 10-15 posts (strike two) Bannable? All she did was weigh in on the jbmagic issue, like, oh, EVERYBODY else here...
3. an untraceable IP Bannable? Guess all the AOL users are screwed now...
4. a Vikings fan Don't even go there...
5. a handful of one-sentence cutting posts (#3+#4+#5 equalled strike three, due to sylistic similarities) You've just described most of the posts on the board.

Ben, nothing she did was a bannable offense around here - whether you've got 1 post or 10,000. You're wrong here, just be an adult, admit it, and we'll move on.

I'm confused FN. You point out that nothing was bannable. It appears that SkyDog agrees with you, since he removed the banning. Yet you say he was wrong. Not quite sure where you are going with this, although I think I have an idea. I thought you wanted an apology, not for SD to admit he was wrong. He admitted that when he re-instated her account.

So, it comes across as being about more than just an apology. It comes across as you grinding your axe.

Another question that comes to mind...why is it so all-fired important to get an apology? Especially when you know it will be a bullshit aplogy anyway? Will Ben typing "I'm sorry." really make everything better? I can't see how, knowing what we all know. I guess I answered my question above, now that I re-read my post. Oh well, grind away.

[flere-imsaho]

[list=1]
Seriously... calling the Democrats or Republicans terrorists (or even inferring as much) is hardly trolling around here.

What about doing it repeatedly.

You AGREE that we should ban political threads?

Yes. Have you not been paying attention?

What ever would you have to talk about anymore?

:rolleyes:

Someone please list the titles of the last 5 threads you've started... please... I'm on a slow connection here.

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/search.php?searchid=79704

I'm less political during football season, clearly. :)

I've even *gasp* started a few strategy threads! :eek:

I contribute plenty in threads both political and not.

[JonInMiddleGA]

But I'm also not going to sit around if someone attacks & ridicules my deeply held beliefs.

See, there's another place where we're right on the same page together.
This is starting to scare me ;)

I admittedly take another step beyond that one too: I don't like to let utter b.s. stand unchallenged. (part of a personal policy that basically tries to work against the notion of "tell a lie often enough & it becomes 'truth'"). If I see something that's either beyond the pale or hasn't already been exposed, I'll usually take a stab at it, even when I'm really not in the mood.

While I'm on the subject & to avoid an unneccessary dola, anybody who doubts my sincerity about wishing political threads were zero-tolerance here,
I suggest they check my political posting pattern with regard to starting political threads vs responding to political threads.

[sabotai]

We could just ban all the wives....oh wait.
I think that would be going overboard...

What we should do is ban all of the husbands who bring their wives here....don't worry Arlie, Cringer, Radii and the rest, we'll take good care of your wives while they're here. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Franklinnoble]

I reported capiscum. I didn't know the poster was a female, wife, or what, and I really don't care.

I read through the first post in the"Talabani would oppose Saddam death sentence" (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showthread.php?t=42144) thread and began to respond, knew it would turn into left vs right, and let it go. Then, later on, saw the second post, and decided to report it because the poster was acting ignorantly and writing offensive things. It was obvious from the first post that she was trying to stir things up by suggesting that the Talibans might be democrats and clear that she hadn't bothered to read the link, since she didn't realize that the thread had nothing to do with the Taliban. The second post in that thread was even more stupid and inflammatory.

When someone comes in, establishes no identity but polarizing political views, and then says ignorant and offensive things that have nothing to do with the discussion, they are not worthy of a "let's get it out in the open already" discussion, in my opinion. If they are just posting to frustrate or anger posters by doing things like comparing people to the Taliban, they don't deserve the time or energy being given.

I think it is lame that you are looking for an apology. She should apologize and then try to come in and establish her personality on the board before she starts making offensive one-liners.
Right. So, basically, you agree with the notion that as long as you've been here for a while, you can behave as you like, but we can't grant new users the same courtesy. I'd call you an elitist prick, but the problem is, I don't think you even really believe that - if she had been on your side of the argument, you wouldn't have reported her. Deny it - but I know bullshit when I smell it.

Second, she qualified the "talibani" joke shortly later in the thread, for those of you without enough of a sense of humor to get that she was just kidding. But keep making sarcastic remarks about George W. Bush - I'll be sure that we conservatives start flooding Ben's inbox with reports.

How many inflammatory, sarcastic one-liners about Republicans or Christians have you reported since you've been here?

This is an elitist double-standard at work here, plain and simple.

[flere-imsaho]

See, there's another place where we're right on the same page together.
This is starting to scare me ;)

Although this probably explains why we end up arguing some much in the same threads. :)

I admittedly take another step beyond that one too: I don't like to let utter b.s. stand unchallenged. (part of a personal policy that basically tries to work against the notion of "tell a lie often enough & it becomes 'truth'"). If I see something that's either beyond the pale or hasn't already been exposed, I'll usually take a stab at it, even when I'm really not in the mood.

Same here.

While I'm on the subject & to avoid an unneccessary dola, anybody who doubts my sincerity about wishing political threads were zero-tolerance here,
I suggest they check my political posting pattern with regard to starting political threads vs responding to political threads.

I'd like to think that the political threads I have started began with enough meat that a reasonable discussion was possible, even if it didn't necessarily happen. The thread on the Iraqi Constitution, for instance, isn't going that badly.

[nilodor]

1. Seriously, do you think she wanted a completely insincere apology?
2. Later in the afternoon, Ryan saw the reported posts, too, and his response was to ghost-ban her. I IM'ed and said, "Uh, that won't work. At some point Franklin is going to ask her why she quit posting." :D

Ghost-Banning, does this mean you sick Whoopi Goldberg on us to keep us from posting?

[Franklinnoble]

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/search.php?searchid=79704 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/search.php?searchid=79704)

I'm less political during football season, clearly. :)

I've even *gasp* started a few strategy threads! :eek:

I contribute plenty in threads both political and not.
Sorry. So, two of your last five threads were political, and five out of the last ten. I guess that's not much. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

But I'm also not going to sit around if someone attacks & ridicules my deeply held beliefs.

That's exactly why my wife joined after just "lurking" for a few days. Glad we agree on that.

[Buzzbee]

This is an elitist double-standard at work here, plain and simple.
Ummm...yeah. Does that suprise you?

If QuikSand steps in and starts posting some of the things you post, we'd all scratch our heads and wonder which circuit blew. Likewise, if Flasch started posting threads about corporate benevolence, we'd wonder if BF or GF or RS or RM had hacked his account.

People who have been around have known personalities. People who haven't don't. Therefore newbies tend to be under closer scrutiny. It is part of life. New employees are watched much more closely than a 10 year employee. I'm sure you are aware of that. Why you think things would be any different here is beyond me.

[Marmel]

I lurk now, and post in the City of Heroes thread occassionally. Basically, SkyDog turned this place into a big steaming pile of shit, and other than the fact I have some nice friends here and a City of Heroes support group, I wouldn't ever come back.

Stop bitching and go to vtbub's blog/sports message board instead (OK, nobody posts there, but it could be the perfect sports message board haven... (http://www.vtbub.com/sgs/). This place sucks anyway. Thanks Ben.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Right. So, basically, you agree with the notion that as long as you've been here for a while, you can behave as you like, but we can't grant new users the same courtesy. I'd call you an elitist prick, but the problem is, I don't think you even really believe that - if she had been on your side of the argument, you wouldn't have reported her. Deny it - but I know bullshit when I smell it.

Second, she qualified the "talibani" joke shortly later in the thread, for those of you without enough of a sense of humor to get that she was just kidding. But keep making sarcastic remarks about George W. Bush - I'll be sure that we conservatives start flooding Ben's inbox with reports.

How many inflammatory, sarcastic one-liners about Republicans or Christians have you reported since you've been here?

This is an elitist double-standard at work here, plain and simple.
Yeah, I guess you could call it a double-standard, but I think it's just more accurate to call it "human nature." In life, 1,000 times more so on an "anonymous" message board like this, we can only judge people by their words and actions. If I've known someone for a long time and they start spouting some stupid shit or start acting "the fool", I'll tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's usually a matter of "I know this person, this isn't how they normally act" or "Yeah, he has his quirks, but he's generally ok". Experience allows us to make informed judgments about people.

So, if a person you've never met before walks into the room and they start spouting some stupid shit or start acting "the fool", you're much more inclined to say "Woah, that dude's an asshole. What's his problem? I don't wanna be around /that/ guy." Even though his behavoir was no different then the person you've known for years/months or what have you.

It's not elitism, it's just real life.

This is not to say your lady started spouting some stupid shit or start acting "the fool". I have no idea. I really didn't follow any of it.

Given the fact that this is an anonymous message board, that her behavior was perceived by a few as "acting the fool", that there was something funky with her IP (allegedly, or so I think), and that there has been a history of trolls here (though probably less than most messages boards out there), I don't think the judgment call was that out of line. And, in the end, since SD reversed things and what not, not that big of deal.

As for no more political threads, I don't think that's necessary. I know it's easier said than done to just "stay away", I think for the most part they are what they are. Political threads weren't the problem here. Dozens upon dozens of folks (both old and new) make numerous political posts without nary a complaint about them.

[sabotai]

I admittedly take another step beyond that one too: I don't like to let utter b.s. stand unchallenged. (part of a personal policy that basically tries to work against the notion of "tell a lie often enough & it becomes 'truth'"). If I see something that's either beyond the pale or hasn't already been exposed, I'll usually take a stab at it, even when I'm really not in the mood.
Yeah, I'm the same way. I've learned my lesson though. I've had way too many nights wasted on pointless debates and circular arguments to let it keep happening. And that's just trying to correct people on simple definitions or historical facts. When it gets into the beleifs and political opinions...meh, I learned it is just a waste of time. And I've had much more time for text sim goodness by steering clear of certain threads and forum members. :)

[korme]

I always apologize when I felt I have acted incorrectly. Given the set of facts I had, I feel that I acted appropriately. I prefer not to give insincere apologies out just to make people feel good.
While I can expect and respect that kind of hard-nosed policy from you, just think that if you had given a "Hey, sorry about that", this thread wouldn't even exist and you wouldn't have to deal with all this. Ya know?

[flere-imsaho]

Second, she qualified the "talibani" joke shortly later in the thread, for those of you without enough of a sense of humor to get that she was just kidding. But keep making sarcastic remarks about George W. Bush - I'll be sure that we conservatives start flooding Ben's inbox with reports.

There's a world of difference between equating Democrats with the Taliban and making a snide remark about, say, George W. Bush's lack of vocabulary. I wouldn't ever report someone, for instance, for making yet another hackneyed joke about Bill Clinton's inability to keep his fly zipped.

As for the "elitist" nonsense. What's important here is a pattern of behavior. In 22 posts, capsicum set a very clear pattern of deliberately attacking and provoking specific posters, while adding little else to the discussion. You can't compare that to an established poster flying off the handle and calling someone else a few names.

For instance, I get routinely pissed off by JIMG & Dutch, but I know that their posts which piss me off do not represent the broad sweep of their posting history.

I hope this concept makes sense to you.

[Vince]

3. an untraceable IP Bannable? Guess all the AOL users are screwed now...
4. a Vikings fan Don't even go there...
5. a handful of one-sentence cutting posts (#3+#4+#5 equalled strike three, due to sylistic similarities) You've just described most of the posts on the board.
Wasn't the whole point of 3-5 that combined they make a compelling argument that this poster bore a strong resemblence to the Wigs? Just pointing something out that seems to be glossed over consistently.

[Scarecrow]

Just so I understand (not that I really want to)...

1. Capsicum posted "Maybe the TALIBAN ARE DEMOCRATS???" in a political thread.
2. 2 hours later she posted "Comment was made tongue in cheek....".
3. Multiple people reported her.
4. Skygod banned her (or not).
5. Frankinoble got mad.

If this is correct, I don't think it's FN and Capsicum that need to grow the thick skin...

****************************

I lurk now, and post in the City of Heroes thread occassionally. Basically, SkyDog turned this place into a big steaming pile of shit, and other than the fact I have some nice friends here and a City of Heroes support group, I wouldn't ever come back.

Stop bitching and go to vtbub's blog/sports message board instead (OK, nobody posts there, but it could be the perfect sports message board haven... (http://www.vtbub.com/sgs/). This place sucks anyway. Thanks Ben.
Pretty much sums up the feelings of alot of old timers that used to be around here.

[Swaggs]

Right. So, basically, you agree with the notion that as long as you've been here for a while, you can behave as you like, but we can't grant new users the same courtesy. I'd call you an elitist prick, but the problem is, I don't think you even really believe that - if she had been on your side of the argument, you wouldn't have reported her. Deny it - but I know bullshit when I smell it.

Second, she qualified the "talibani" joke shortly later in the thread, for those of you without enough of a sense of humor to get that she was just kidding. But keep making sarcastic remarks about George W. Bush - I'll be sure that we conservatives start flooding Ben's inbox with reports.

How many inflammatory, sarcastic one-liners about Republicans or Christians have you reported since you've been here?

This is an elitist double-standard at work here, plain and simple.

Are you even serious? You can be sure I'm serious and perfectly sincere, if I took the time to respond to one of your posts. I will try to keep this post very short and very clear, so you do not catch a single whiff of bullshit.

In my world, you earn leeway and familiarity by establishing your personality and character over a period of time. Do you allow your friends and family more familiarity than a person that walks up to you on the street? Your wife did nothing to establish herself beyond taking political potshots and I reported her as being inflammatory.

Do you really get the feeling, from reading that sentence, that the apology in that thread was sincere? I really did not.

I think you trying to corner the market on being conservative, Republican, and/or a Christian is, hopefully, just the heat of the moment. I have many close friends and family members that are conservative Republicans and, since we have established relationships, we can freely discuss issues. I am a Christian myself, so I don't really know what you are getting at there.

I sincerely hope you do not spend all of your energy on this effort to get an apology from SkyDog to complete this crusade of yours. I think if your wife just establishes a little bit of personality and character depth on here, she would be just fine to participate in discussions. If she continues to be a one-dimensional, inflammatory poster, she will probably eventually earn that banning.

[Scarecrow]

BTW, isn't it your birthday today Frankinoble???

[korme]

To be fair, Marmel has publicly said it's hard to catch him in the Gen. Discussion of FOFC anymore.

edit- wrote that before I saw his post at the bottom of page 2. :eek:

As I said, she was reported multiple times. That's pretty rare, FYI. If I had to guess, I'd say that less than 10 times in the last 2 years have I received multiple reports about the same person on the same day. I'd actually say it's been more than that, there have been 4 times in the past month that multiple reports have been given on the same day to the same person.

[Franklinnoble]

While I can expect and respect that kind of hard-nosed policy from you, just think that if you had given a "Hey, sorry about that", this thread wouldn't even exist and you wouldn't have to deal with all this. Ya know?
That was pretty much my whole point.

With that, I'm about done with this argument. Like everything else around here, there are those who will always disagree with a certain point of view. The rest of you are the only right-minded people here, obviously, and your momma's should be proud of how well they raised such fine Americans. ;)

I still maintain that SkyDog, and this board, might benefit from some fresh leadership. Ben's had a pretty long term, and perhaps a new pair of hands behind the wheel could be what this bus needs.

Anyway, consider Sharon's personality established. ;) She's a die-hard Republican, a born-again Christian, a great mother to our three kids (they're cute - go see (http://www.noblebrown.com/)), and a fantastic wife. She's also a professional horse trainer and a gourmet chef, so if you've got questions on either topic, she's you're woman.

[The Afoci]

When I post something I think skydog will ban me for, it gets me excited. Like when I was a kid and went up and knocked on a door and ran across the street to watch them answer. Or when I was stealing lunchables. One day I hope he will use a catch phrase on me which I will print out and put in a little bubble that comes from his mouth on the blown up picture I have of him above my bed. Only then will I be happy.

[Franklinnoble]

BTW, isn't it your birthday today Frankinoble???
Yes, thanks. :)

31 today... and I got just what I wanted... a big fat argument on FOFC. ;)

(Sharon says "I'll make it up to you, sweetie...")

Mmm... birthday nookie.... :D

[thesloppy]

bros before hos.

Just sayin'.

[Franklinnoble]

When I post something I think skydog will ban me for, it gets me excited. Like when I was a kid and went up and knocked on a door and ran across the street to watch them answer. Or when I was stealing lunchables. One day I hope he will use a catch phrase on me which I will print out and put in a little bubble that comes from his mouth on the blown up picture I have of him above my bed. Only then will I be happy.
I hear being a Vikings fan is a bannable offense now... go with that... http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Franklinnoble]

I lurk now, and post in the City of Heroes thread occassionally. Basically, SkyDog turned this place into a big steaming pile of shit, and other than the fact I have some nice friends here and a City of Heroes support group, I wouldn't ever come back.

Stop bitching and go to vtbub's blog/sports message board instead (OK, nobody posts there, but it could be the perfect sports message board haven... (http://www.vtbub.com/sgs/). This place sucks anyway. Thanks Ben.
Wow... this thread was worth it just for the Marmel sighting. :D

I'll check that other board out.

[The Afoci]

I hear being a Vikings fan is a bannable offense now... go with that... http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Onterio Smith and I have something in common...

[Franklinnoble]

Onterio Smith and I have something in common...
You mean you're from the Sacramento area too? So are we... wow! Is that why he got banned from the NFL?

[ThunderingHERD]

I'll give you an apology Franklin:

I'm sorry your wife's a troll. :eek:

But you're right here--I've never understood the prevalence of bannings. Or reporting posts, which I didn't realize was so popular until I read this thread. Here's a crazy thought: If you think someone is being offensive--ignore them. It would be easy enough to do that the old fashioned way, assuming you have eyes and can move them at will, but we even have a nifty ignore button to take care of all that hard work.

No drama neccessary.

[Ragone]

i gotta agree with this. I think the political threads ought to either be gone, or all political threads should be clearly labeled as such and should be "free fire, ban-free" zones. at least with regards to the political speech in them. Otherwise inconsistencies will arise.


either that.. or make a anything goes non modded area to discuss such things in.. short of posting nekkid pictures/links.. nothing should be touched
there..

[mckerney]

dang, being a vikings fan is a banable offense now? this sucks :(

http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_sad.gif

[Glengoyne]

While I can expect and respect that kind of hard-nosed policy from you, just think that if you had given a "Hey, sorry about that", this thread wouldn't even exist and you wouldn't have to deal with all this. Ya know?
This is pretty much where I was coming from when I Cheered Franklin's post earlier. All SD had to do was be civil, and say sorry to someone because he treated them wrongly. Instead he say he did no wrong, yet he changed his position, unbanning and eventually unsuspending the account.

I also want to say that I think SD does a great job here. He occasionally over reacts, but I think he has to occasionally draw a hard line and be consistent. I'm miles away from Schmitdy and Marmel's position. I really don't frankly understand it.

I also think that those who complained about FN's wife should take note that they might just consider STFU next time they want to bitch about someone trolling in a thread. Really Who gives a crap? Just exit the thread, and you're done with it.

[Axxon]

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth there. You called me a dictator, and expect me to be.....democratic???? Make up your mind. ;)

Well, to be fair, he's calling you a dictator in a role that should be more democratic. :)

Short sum up of my opinion of this thread with the caveat that I only briefly saw the "offending" thread so I'm speaking more generally than specifically.

I can agree with Buzzbee about human nature and all which is perfectly fine. As was posted, new employees are watched more closely than established ones.

But....

They're not officially treated any differently as far as disciplinary actions are concerned. The rules aren't magically different here.

In this case, the worst any established poster would have gotten was a suspension ( which Skydog said he still may think is appropriate ) then that's all a new poster should have gotten. If there was concern that this was a wig, then at least some effort ( not just sitting home playing riddle me this with Viking fan and newbie data being the deciding factor - sorry Ben ) should have been made before a banning.

Suspend her or not on the merit of the case and then shoot a PM/email or otherwise communicate with the poster so they know what's going on and can possibly prove to you somehow they're not a wig. I know this can be done as you've posted that you have been convinced before.

That seems like what should have been done and if the occurances of days like this are as rare as you say then there's really no reason that little bit of effort can't be taken, especially if the poster is currently suspended.

Anyway, that's how I see it and the issue of the apology, please, if the worst thing you've got to worry about is politeness then consider yourself lucky/blessed and enjoy your life. I know I would.

[Axxon]

Dola -

rereading my post made me think of this scenario.

"Come in Johnson, have a seat. You're new here aren't you? Yes, well, I'm afraid that it's come to our attention that you are, ahem, a Vikings fan."

"Yes"

"Well see, that's the thing. We're going to have to let you go..."

"WHAT!!"

"Calm down, Johnson, calm down. You see, well, let me tell you about this one employee we had named Wig...."

:D

[kiwiLB57]

bros before hos.

Just sayin'.

Oh, superb. Just superb. :D

[Ben E Lou]

With that, I'm about done with this argument. Like everything else around here, there are those who will always disagree with a certain point of view.Cool. Thread closed.