Saints leaving New Orleans for good?

[Ironhead]

http://www.thenewsstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050904/SPORTS/509040350/1006

NEW ORLEANS — Saints owner Tom Benson is leaning strongly toward moving the Saints permanently to San Antonio following the devastation to the city and the Superdome by Hurricane Katrina, a state senator who has spoken with a top team official said Saturday.

Sen. Mike Michot, R-Lafayette, said he spoke with Saints' chief of administration Arnold Fielkow by phone Friday morning about Benson's potential plans.

Team officials could not be reached Saturday. The team had previously announced it was looking for a new home for the current season, and San Antonio was one of the options.

Michot said he was told that Benson has not made a final decision, but the owner is serious about moving once and for all to San Antonio.

"We may lose them permanently," Michot said.

A possible move by the team is a "huge concern" among a few state officials who have become aware of it, but every significant political figure in the state is preoccupied with reacting to the storm aftermath.

State officials want to convince Benson to delay a decision so that the state can focus on the rescue and rehabilitation effort and later find a way to keep the Saints at home in New Orleans.

"This is like pouring salt into the wound," Michot said.

Michot said decency dictates that Benson should postpone any decision on a permanent move until state officials have had a chance to talk with him.

"Give us time," Michot said.

Another state official confirmed a similar conversation with Fielkow.

Michot is the vice-chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, a key committee for legislation related to state agreement with the Saints.

He said that in the long run the Saints might be better off staying in New Orleans because a revived city with national support could provide a better stadium.

Benson has long wanted to move the Saints out of New Orleans to San Antonio where he made his money as a car dealer. The city needs this like a hole in the head.

[RendeR]

I'm not convinced San Antonio could support a pro football team. Benson, IMO, would be killing his own team value by making this move.

If he truly wants to get out of New ORleans altogether, move them to LA.

[3ric]

Serious question. Could anyone imagine the Superdome being used again for any sports event, after the damage from the hurricane and the crimes being committed inside when it was used as shelter?

[Riggins44]

Serious question. Could anyone imagine the Superdome being used again for any sports event, after the damage from the hurricane and the crimes being committed inside when it was used as shelter?

If the Los Angeles Colliseum can still be used....

[Dutch]

Serious question. Could anyone imagine the Superdome being used again for any sports event, after the damage from the hurricane and the crimes being committed inside when it was used as shelter?

I'm sure some of the horrors that took place inside would put Abu Graib photo's to shame. I say tear it down.

[Buccaneer]

Serious question. Could anyone imagine the Superdome being used again for any sports event, after the damage from the hurricane and the crimes being committed inside when it was used as shelter?
Not only the physical damage, but the psychological damage as well.

By the way, it wasn't a shelter, it was just a place to get away from the wind, rain and flooding. The City and State did not set it up as such.

[JPhillips]

Bucc: The city, state and feds.

[Franklinnoble]

I think New Orleans will rebuild/refurbish the Superdome, just because their convention business makes it a necessity.

However, I think the Saints are already gone. Benson has just categorically screwed any chance he has of keeping a fan base in New Orleans with this crap. Personally, I think he's a dirtbag for pulling this crap right now.

[MIJB#19]

That's of course exactly what the people in New Orleans need: seeing their joined pleasure go away. I dunno how important the Saints are to the locals, but sometimes rebuilding can start or at lest get a boost from the success of a local sports team.

[Buccaneer]

Bucc: The city, state and feds.
Sorry, but the Superdome is a State facility created by an amendment to the State Constitution. The Federal Govt does not and should not have jurisdiction - unless called upon by State.

[Solecismic]

I'm not convinced San Antonio could support a pro football team. Benson, IMO, would be killing his own team value by making this move.

If he truly wants to get out of New ORleans altogether, move them to LA.

Actually, San Antonio is the 29th largest metropolitcan area in America, and one of the fastest-growing as well. New Orleans is 34th.

Here's the list of metropolitan areas with one million or more people without pro football teams...

2nd Los Angeles
22nd Portland, OR
24th Sacramento
26th Milwaukee (they used to share Green Bay)
27th Orlando
30th Norfolk
31st Las Vegas
32nd Columbus, OH
35th Salt Lake City
36th Greensboro, NC
37th Austin
39th Providence
40th Raleigh
41st Hartford
43rd Memphis
44th West Palm Beach
46th Rochester, NY
47th Grand Rapids
48th Oklahoma City
49th Louisville

Green Bay (155th) is the only area (226,000 people) with less than 1.1 million people represented in the NFL. Jacksonville, at 45th, is the second smallest.

I think it's fair to say that any area in the top 50 has an excellent chance of supporting an NFL team. Baseball is another story, however, with 81 home dates to sell and an entirely different revenue structure.

I agree that the timing of his comments are terrible. Anyone with just a modicum of common sense would wait a few months.

[cougarfreak]

I'd say if he DOES move them, it would be a nice gesture by the NFL to expand to NO, if the city is rebuilt.

[RendeR]

Thanks Jim, I had no idea San Antonia was that large.

Where do you find this type of data when you need stuff for the game design stuff?

[Joe]

how would the people of New Orleans financially support a team? I imagine it'll be a while before those affected by the storm would have the expendable income to spend on leisure activities such as the price gouging that goes on to go to an NFL game. Although, I'm sure their fan base comes from the state at large, and many areas that weren't affected. But still..

[cthomer5000]

I'd say if he DOES move them, it would be a nice gesture by the NFL to expand to NO, if the city is rebuilt. no.

I think if anything this should be the team they move to LA, if the NFL still has a hard-on for that idea.

[Solecismic]

Thanks Jim, I had no idea San Antonia was that large.

Where do you find this type of data when you need stuff for the game design stuff?

www.census.gov. It's all free, you just need to look around.

[Buccaneer]

I think some people are surprised to hear that since the 2004 census estimate, San Antonio is the nation's 8th largest city, with San Jose now the 10th largest. People were shocked when I told them throughout the 1990s, San Antonio was in the top 10 with San Jose just behind at 11.

Don't believe me? http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

[JW]

WDSU-TV reports Saints will play all games in San Antonio, no refunds to season ticket holder, to be officially announced in a day or two.

http://www.wdsu.com/news/4934334/detail.html

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that there is a lot of animosity in Louisiana outside of New Orleans toward the Saints, particularly related to state funds being paid to the Saints. There are many people who to this point would really not have cared if the Saints moved. However, if Benson abandons the city and state in a crisis, he will be more hated than he ever was before.

[jamesUMD]

Well, if Benson was having a hard time getting the cost of a new stadium funded by the local economy before, he surely got moved to the back of the line behind a 1000+ more pressing needs now. I honestly can't see him staying in New Orleans with what amounts to 0% chance of new digs.

Mentioning it now does suck. I do kind of get the feeling that some reporter asked him directly and he answered, when he should have said "the issue should not even be broached at this point in time in light of what's going on", no matter what he was thinking.

[Philliesfan980]

How the hell can you not offer refunds?

[ISiddiqui]

I think some people are surprised to hear that since the 2004 census estimate, San Antonio is the nation's 8th largest city, with San Jose now the 10th largest. People were shocked when I told them throughout the 1990s, San Antonio was in the top 10 with San Jose just behind at 11.

Don't believe me? http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html
Yes, but I think Metropolitan area is more important. I mean if you just go by city size, the Braves should be in Mesa, Arizona before Atlanta, GA ;).

[Galaxy]

No refunds? What a loser. A thief who steals money from people who truly need the money.

As for moving, I think the timing is bad. However, I don't see New Orleans be able to support two pro teams in the long term, financially. I wonder about the loss of the big events (NCAA Tournament, Sugar Bowl, ect.)

[Bearcat729]

And here I thought there couldn't be a bigger ass than Art Modell.

[finkenst]

the Irsays

[finkenst]

dola, the dude who took the oilers to nashville

[finkenst]

doladola the dude who took the cardinals to Arizona...

wait, maybe that wasn't so bad.

[finkenst]

dolatres

the dodgers to LA,
the giants to SF.

this is getting fun

[finkenst]

oh..

bearcat7729, if you're from the cincinnati area, then Mike Brown has to be on that list.

[Philliesfan980]

I really don't have a problem with the guy taking the team to where ever he wants. It's his team, his money, his neck.

But I do have a problem (and I doubt that it will hold up in court) with not giving a refund for a service that he can't provide. The tickets are to see the Saints in the Superdome, if he can't play games in the Superdome, then he can't take the money. At least thats how I see it.

[kenparker23]

Benson is the owner of a business. I am sure there are many other owners who will relocate their business. His timing is terrible as is the season ticket fiasco. However, just on the grounds of moving his team, I cannot fault him there. If I were a business man in NO and considered moving my business before the hurricane, I would certainly be more inclined to do it now.

[Airhog]

If you have a season ticket can you watch them play at there new home? Of course its a moot point since most people are not going to drive across texas to see the team play.

What a bastard if you ask me. I wonder how many tickets will sale in san antonio?

[ISiddiqui]

While Benson can move his team, what a horrible PR move. I mean people realize that the Saints won't be in New Orleans for like 5 years, but you don't come out and say it. You, maybe, move them to San Antonio and then when the city is at the point where it can support a team, you say no thanks.

[Buccaneer]

Yes, but I think Metropolitan area is more important. I mean if you just go by city size, the Braves should be in Mesa, Arizona before Atlanta, GA ;).
Well, that's true. It's more fun the other way though.

[Young Drachma]

I'm sure you can sell those tickets or something. How expensive are season tickets, for the record?

[Young Drachma]

Dola-

It's not like they can watch the games in New Orleans anyone. There's no one in the area. So...San Antonio and the surrounding area would presumably be excited to have this new team and with people largely staged in the Texas area anyway.

I mean, what is the team supposed to do? Refund all the tickets and start over? I'm just wondering..

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm sure there will be many people (including some good friends of mine) filing law suits if he doesn't refund money. That is ridiculous.

[ShaqFu]

I wonder if the Hornets will jump ship. Perhaps they will go to Louisville. The Kentucky Colonels.

[Galaxy]

I wonder if the Hornets will jump ship. Perhaps they will go to Louisville. The Kentucky Colonels.

I'll put my money on Vegas.

[Galaxy]

Dola-

It's not like they can watch the games in New Orleans anyone. There's no one in the area. So...San Antonio and the surrounding area would presumably be excited to have this new team and with people largely staged in the Texas area anyway.

I mean, what is the team supposed to do? Refund all the tickets and start over? I'm just wondering..
If he isn't providing a service to the customers (which is to play NFL football in New Orleans), then yes, he needs to refund the tickets. I hardly think he'll have problems selling NFL tickets to wherever he goes.

[MIJB#19]

I'm sure you can sell those tickets or something. How expensive are season tickets, for the record?According to the Saints' official site, for 10 home games, prices are:2005 New Orleans Saints Season Ticket Prices
Club Sideline $1300
Plaza Sideline $790
Club End Zone $730
Upper Box Sideline $700
Plaza End Zone $640
Upper Box End Zone $620
Terrace Sideline $500
Terrace End Zone $250 For reference:
2005 New Orleans Saints Individual Ticket Prices
Club Sideline $140
Plaza Sideline $89
Club End Zone $83
Upper Box Sideline $80
Plaza End Zone $74
Upper Box End Zone $72
Terrace Sideline $60
Terrace End Zone $35

[SackAttack]

Y'know, it looks like it's cheaper across the board to just to walk-up ticket purchases than to buy a season ticket.

[Franklinnoble]

There's no way he can NOT offer refunds. Hope he's prepared to lose a lot of money in court.

[Dutch]

Y'know, it looks like it's cheaper across the board to just to walk-up ticket purchases than to buy a season ticket.

Season Tickets gets you priority for potential playoff games and Monday Night games and any big games that happen. So there is a benefit to paying a bit more for season tickets.

The cheaper individual tickets are probably to increase the chances of filling a stadium so they don't have to go under blackout TV conditions.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

doladola the dude who took the cardinals to Arizona...

wait, maybe that wasn't so bad.
Yes it was. Take them back. Please. We'll take the Saints.

[Draft Dodger]

And here I thought there couldn't be a bigger ass than Art Modell.

exactly what I was thinking

[Senator]

San Antonio already has a winning football team.... in the form of the Volunteers in the IHOF. We would have to move first.

[Draft Dodger]

San Antonio already has a winning football team.... in the form of the Volunteers in the IHOF. We would have to move first.

well, maybe Bud Selig will throw a few million your way to cover your lost revenue

[clintl]

The Saints may well have to move permanently, this is not the right time for Benson to be talking about it.

[clintl]

I think if anything this should be the team they move to LA, if the NFL still has a hard-on for that idea.

If the Saints have to move permanently, that might be a pretty good solution. The Saints could move to the NFC West, and the Rams to the NFC South, fixing the NFC's geographical alignment problems.

As an extra plus, it would piss off Al Davis.

[MIJB#19]

San Antonio already has a winning football team.... in the form of the Volunteers in the IHOF. We would have to move first.I was going through looking up tickets info for all NFL teams and ended up writing down Miami Sharks. I didn't realize the mistake until I saw Flipper in the logo. :D

[Young Drachma]

I wonder if the Hornets will jump ship. Perhaps they will go to Louisville. The Kentucky Colonels.

Vegas?

Kansas City might lobby, but their arena isn't done yet.

Umm..I'd love to see St. Louis get back into the NBA.

[st.cronin]

What a slime!

[Ryche]

You can move the Saints to San Antonio, but I don't see anyway they make money in the Alamodome. I saw the preseason game between the Saints and Vikings there a few years ago and that stadium is barely better than the Metrodome.

[Doug5984]

I am wondering how he can possibly not refund the season tickets? Everyone in the area is not strapped for money- there is no possible way anyone could make it to the games all the way in San Antonio...Maybe someone aruond he would know, but could that stand up in a court? Could the fans sue and demand a refund?

[Daimyo]

I assume if he's not offering refunds to season ticket holders he can't resell those tickets in San Antonio... so does that mean if that holds up they'll play in an almost entirely empty stadium this year?

[Cringer]

I assume if he's not offering refunds to season ticket holders he can't resell those tickets in San Antonio... so does that mean if that holds up they'll play in an almost entirely empty stadium this year?

The nice thing would be to let people in for a 'donation' that goes to the red cross.

[Scarecrow]

Dammit!! Another bastard ruining the great last name 'Benson'. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif

[Galaxy]

Isn't Texas pretty crowded with the Cowboys and Texans?

[Cringer]

Isn't Texas pretty crowded with the Cowboys and Texans?

Not really. Plenty of people who are close enough to San Antonio to support a team. The stadium is what is rather undesireable though....

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I'll put my money on Vegas.
Just waiting the word from Mayor Goodman.

[JW]

Saints news conference from San Antonio this afternoon. Saints official (did not catch his name) said all the right things about the Saints being Louisiana's team and New Orleans's team, etc. Said they were still exploring where to play their home games and 'would like to play in Baton Rouge.' Said all options were open on where to play. Said nothing about a permanent move, but then no one expected him to.

[cthomer5000]

Isn't Texas pretty crowded with the Cowboys and Texans?
No one ever looks at a map. San Antonio is farther from Dallas or Houston than New York is from Baltimore.

They could support another team, easy.

[sachmo71]

Isn't Texas pretty crowded with the Cowboys and Texans?


San Antonio would also get the Austin crowd, probably Corpus and San Angelo as well.

[lynchjm24]

Even if they only played there for one season, I would be shocked if they didn't play to near capacity for all seven games.

[Cringer]

San Antonio would also get the Austin crowd, probably Corpus and San Angelo as well.

Not just there, but you would have people go up from Laredo (2.5 hr drive) and I know I would atleast go to one game (4 hr drive).

[JPhillips]

Bucc: In this case the feds knew about the problem, were asked to help and claimed to be in charge before the hurricane hit.

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005




The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

From the DHS Website

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

And the request for help from LA

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

I'm more than willing to lay blame on the city and the state, but the feds have failed totally.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Season Tickets gets you priority for potential playoff games and Monday Night games and any big games that happen. So there is a benefit to paying a bit more for season tickets.

The cheaper individual tickets are probably to increase the chances of filling a stadium so they don't have to go under blackout TV conditions.
This is funny.

You do realize that this discussion is about the Saints...

[HomerJSimpson]

Dammit!! Another bastard ruining the great last name 'Benson'. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif

Wha?


http://www.sonypictures.com/tv/shows/sgn/benson/images/home/benson-pic.gif

[lynchjm24]

"Season Tickets gets you priority for potential playoff games and Monday Night games and any big games that happen. So there is a benefit to paying a bit more for season tickets.

The cheaper individual tickets are probably to increase the chances of filling a stadium so they don't have to go under blackout TV conditions."


It's pained me that no one has pointed out yet that the individual tickets are not cheaper. They are more expensive on a single game basis. The season tickets are for 10 games, not 8.

[sterlingice]

No one ever looks at a map. San Antonio is farther from Dallas or Houston than New York is from Baltimore.

They could support another team, easy.
Yeah- you don't quite realize how big Texas is until you go on a family trip where you start driving west from Houston at 8am one morning and still don't get out of the state (Ft Stockton Best Western, anyone?) when the sun goes down.

SI

[Cringer]

Yeah, takes me 11 hours minimum to go from where I live to Texarkana.

Big place.

[st.cronin]

"Season Tickets gets you priority for potential playoff games and Monday Night games and any big games that happen. So there is a benefit to paying a bit more for season tickets.

The cheaper individual tickets are probably to increase the chances of filling a stadium so they don't have to go under blackout TV conditions."


It's pained me that no one has pointed out yet that the individual tickets are not cheaper. They are more expensive on a single game basis. The season tickets are for 10 games, not 8.

You can't be seriously including preseason football games in your math.

[Axxon]

You can't be seriously including preseason football games in your math.

Really?

Every preseason game I've ever been to cost me money for admission. Are they free now? That would be pretty cool but somehow I don't think things have changed since I went to my last preseason game a couple of seasons ago.

[Franklinnoble]

Preseason games are the biggest scam in the NFL. Anyone who wants season tickets to any team has to pay the same price for the two additional preseason games as well. It's a ripoff, and that's why the league will never reduce the number of preseason games.

[sooner333]

Oklahoma City offered their 19,000 seat arena to the Hornets for the season. The Ford Center is about three years old and houses a CHL hockey team and a afl2 team, along with many concerts, a few upcoming Big 12 basketball tournaments and NCAA early round games. The hockey team offered to go next door the the Cox Convention Center (their former home) for the conflicting games.

[finkenst]

Yeah- you don't quite realize how big Texas is until you go on a family trip where you start driving west from Houston at 8am one morning and still don't get out of the state (Ft Stockton Best Western, anyone?) when the sun goes down.

SI
the sun is riz
the sun is set
and here we iz
in texas yet.

[lynchjm24]

You can't be seriously including preseason football games in your math.

As someone who is an NFL season ticket holder I can assure you that you need to include those in your math. That's why it's even labeled as 10 games.

This is a just a guess but the regular season face value is the same to season ticket holders and the preseason games are discounted which is why it isn't the face value times 10.

[lynchjm24]

It's a ripoff, and that's why the league will never reduce the number of preseason games.

They could come to their senses and increase the regular season to 18 games, but that probably won't happen until they aren't getting a huge increase in their television revenue.

[Axxon]

They could come to their senses and increase the regular season to 18 games, but that probably won't happen until they aren't getting a huge increase in their television revenue.

I actually like preseason at four games. It comes at a time when there's a huge football drought ( so any football is good football ) and it's fun to see your younger guys and your prospect guys strutting their stuff.

No, the starters don't need four games to get ready but a wise team learns a lot in those four games.

[Franklinnoble]

I actually like preseason at four games. It comes at a time when there's a huge football drought ( so any football is good football ) and it's fun to see your younger guys and your prospect guys strutting their stuff.

No, the starters don't need four games to get ready but a wise team learns a lot in those four games.
That's not the point. The point is that NFL owners shouldn't force you to buy two preseason games as part of a regular season ticket package. It's bullshit, and I wish someone would file a class-action lawsuit against the league for it or something.

[ISiddiqui]

Why? No one is forcing you to buy the season ticket package.

[Axxon]

That's not the point. The point is that NFL owners shouldn't force you to buy two preseason games as part of a regular season ticket package. It's bullshit, and I wish someone would file a class-action lawsuit against the league for it or something.

Honest question here, is it sold as a "regular season" ticket package or simply a season ticket package? If it's the former then you have a point but if it's the latter then how can you class action that?

Of course, while we're at it, they shouldn't force you to buy tickets for the crappy games on the schedule either. I mean, those aren't worth the money and they should obviously have to refund any money spent on games that occur after your team is eliminated from playoff contentons. Those games are meaningless after all.

Hmm, maybe they should just abolish the whole season ticket package altogether, so no one is forced to buy any tickets to games they don't want to go to. Maybe they could just sell you tickets to the games you want to see and not force you to buy tickets for the others. Maybe, they might even offer this kind of plan right now without any force involved.

Hmm, opposing businesses from practicing free enterprise....

are you SURE you're a repblican? ;)

[Franklinnoble]

Why? No one is forcing you to buy the season ticket package.
They're basically charging you a 25% premium for the "privilege" of having season tickets. It's highway robbery.

[Franklinnoble]

Honest question here, is it sold as a "regular season" ticket package or simply a season ticket package? If it's the former then you have a point but if it's the latter then how can you class action that?

Of course, while we're at it, they shouldn't force you to buy tickets for the crappy games on the schedule either. I mean, those aren't worth the money and they should obviously have to refund any money spent on games that occur after your team is eliminated from playoff contentons. Those games are meaningless after all.

Hmm, maybe they should just abolish the whole season ticket package altogether, so no one is forced to buy any tickets to games they don't want to go to. Maybe they could just sell you tickets to the games you want to see and not force you to buy tickets for the others. Maybe, they might even offer this kind of plan right now without any force involved.

Hmm, opposing businesses from practicing free enterprise....

are you SURE you're a repblican? ;)

Don't give me that. You know damned well that if every season ticket holder in the NFL were given the choice, they'd all choose NOT to buy the preseason games at full price. They're absolutely meaningless scrimmages, and they shouldn't be packaged and sold as the real thing.

In nearly every other imaginable consumer scenario, a loyal customer gets a discout for buying more of a product. For some reason, sports teams get away with doing exactly the opposite.

Personally, I wish the USFL had won real damages from the NFL when they brought that anti-trust lawsuit. They were right, and we'd be better off if we had a choice of professional football leagues to watch.

[Axxon]

They're basically charging you a 25% premium for the "privilege" of having season tickets. It's highway robbery.

So then, you want the benefits of having reserved seats to all contests but only buy tickets to the ones you want to see?

That's pretty much it really. They HAVE to play the games and would like to make some revenue on the deal so they offer a "package deal" to put butts in the seats for those games too. Seems like a no brainer to me and if you're interested enough in the team you make the commitment to the training games and if you aren't you don't buy season tickets.

[Axxon]

Don't give me that. You know damned well that if every season ticket holder in the NFL were given the choice, they'd all choose NOT to buy the preseason games at full price. They're absolutely meaningless scrimmages, and they shouldn't be packaged and sold as the real thing.

In nearly every other imaginable consumer scenario, a loyal customer gets a discout for buying more of a product. For some reason, sports teams get away with doing exactly the opposite.

Personally, I wish the USFL had won real damages from the NFL when they brought that anti-trust lawsuit. They were right, and we'd be better off if we had a choice of professional football leagues to watch.

Bullspit. I don't have season tickets because I don't live around the team that I support but my brother/his wife and her family do and they don't bitch about having to pay for the preseason games and those tickets are always used.

If I was still in town I'd buy my ticket package ( after I waited out the huge waiting list of people who aren't quite upset enough about the issue to drop off the list I might add) and I'd WANT to see the preseason games too.

I almost paid scalper prices for the last preseason game ( and last NFL game ) I saw but I lucked into good tickets at face value. Just because YOU don't like preseason games doesn't mean everyone else dislikes them too.

[ISiddiqui]

Don't give me that. You know damned well that if every season ticket holder in the NFL were given the choice, they'd all choose NOT to buy the preseason games at full price. They're absolutely meaningless scrimmages, and they shouldn't be packaged and sold as the real thing.
And if every season ticket holder were given the choice, they'd choose not to buy games against crap opponents (like against the 49ers) at full price either. Sorry, that's their package deal. If you don't want it, buy individual tickets.

I think the question has to be asked again: Are you SURE you're a Republican? Your meddling in the NFL's business practice smacks of... oh, I dunno... socialism? ;)