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View Full Version : Washington Post article about misuses of the Patriot Act


SirFozzie
10-26-2005, 11:20 AM
Some things that jump out at me from the story:

In one case, FBI agents kept an unidentified target under surveillance for at least five years -- including more than 15 months without notifying Justice Department lawyers after the subject had moved from New York to Detroit. An FBI investigation concluded that the delay was a violation of Justice guidelines and prevented the department "from exercising its responsibility for oversight and approval of an ongoing foreign counterintelligence investigation of a U.S. person."

also

In other cases, agents obtained e-mails after a warrant expired, seized bank records without proper authority and conducted an improper "unconsented physical search," according to the documents.


And

Although heavily censored, the documents provide a rare glimpse into the world of domestic spying, which is governed by a secret court and overseen by a presidential board that does not publicize its deliberations. The records are also emerging as the House and Senate battle over whether to put new restrictions on the controversial USA Patriot Act, which made it easier for the government to conduct secret searches and surveillance but has come under attack from civil liberties groups.

Since I've pulled stuff that supports my viewpoint, I encourage everyone to read the article. I think that the Patriot Act is kind of a timebomb.. as it stands, iif all the rules are followed, it gives the FBI a good thing, and increases our chances to catch the bad guys before the next 9/11. However, it seems to be easy to NOT follow the rules.. dunno if the items in the Patriot Act encourage these activities, or it's a general "Rules are made to be broken" type thing.




Link to full story. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/23/AR2005102301352.html)

John Galt
10-26-2005, 11:24 AM
Truthfully, though, the Patriot Act was not the source of most all of these stories. These sort of things have been allowed for quite some time. It's just that they are now getting attention. The Patriot Act gets more blame than it should, but either way domestic civil liberties are decreasing.

CraigSca
10-26-2005, 11:31 AM
Agreed John.

If the FBI has been following this guy for at least 5 years, it has nothing to do with the Patriot Act.

-Mojo Jojo-
10-26-2005, 03:09 PM
It does seem relevant to the PATRIOT ACT (although the distinction "relevant to"/"caused by" is an important one) in that PATRIOT ACT in various situations decreased judicial supervision of FBI actions, and I believe that in later modifications of the PATRIOT ACT (possibly the renewal) Congressional oversight of FBI actions under the PATRIOT ACT were also reduced. When an agency asks for (and, more importantly, receives) the public trust like that, it's pretty important (to my mind) when we find out they've abused that trust.

moriarty
10-26-2005, 03:16 PM
It does seem relevant to the PATRIOT ACT (although the distinction "relevant to"/"caused by" is an important one) in that PATRIOT ACT in various situations decreased judicial supervision of FBI actions, and I believe that in later modifications of the PATRIOT ACT (possibly the renewal) Congressional oversight of FBI actions under the PATRIOT ACT were also reduced. When an agency asks for (and, more importantly, receives) the public trust like that, it's pretty important (to my mind) when we find out they've abused that trust.

If it's been going on for 5 years, then it started and was approved/escaped notice a full year prior to the Patriot Act being approved. :confused:

RendeR
10-26-2005, 04:07 PM
Repeal this piece of rubbish now before any more of our freedoms are raped by this administration and its hounds.

Tekneek
10-26-2005, 05:28 PM
If it's been going on for 5 years, then it started and was approved/escaped notice a full year prior to the Patriot Act being approved. :confused:

So, if they started observing this guy before the Patriot Act, they would not be able to use extra privledges granted by the Patriot Act to expand their investigation since then? :confused:

moriarty
10-27-2005, 09:09 AM
So, if they started observing this guy before the Patriot Act, they would not be able to use extra privledges granted by the Patriot Act to expand their investigation since then? :confused:

The article doesn't say that they used extra privileges of the Patriot Act to expand their investigation (at least not what I read). It just sites the 5-year investigation as part of the violations. I'm not seeing how an investigation that started a year prior to the Patriot Act can be sited as an example of abuse due to the Patriot Act.

Now if you tell me that you can only observe someone for 18 months w/out notifying the justice department … and they failed to due so under guise of the Patriot Act then maybe this example makes sense.

John Galt
10-27-2005, 09:13 AM
And despite it's reputation, the Patriot Act would not give any extra ability in these cases. The document is really pretty narrow. It gets a bad rap. The means for eroding our civil liberties predated the Patriot Act by decades.

st.cronin
10-27-2005, 09:18 AM
I heart Russ Feingold.

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