College Coaches vs. NFL coaches

[BishopMVP]

As a tangent to the Charlie Weis thread, I threw out the statement that at least 90% of NFL Head Coaches are better than NCAA D1-A Head Coaches. What seperates Mike Martz, considered a failure in the NFL from Bobby Petrino or Urban Meyer, 2 of the biggest rising stars in college because of their explosive offenses? Pete Carroll has won 28 in a row, but he was no more than average at best in the NFL. Steve Spurrier and Butch Davis had auspicious terms coaching the Skins and Browns.

Once you get past the obvious choice of Mike Tice, I think Mike Sherman or Dom Capers would still be an upgrade at a number of D1 schools. Even a guy like Mark Whipple, QB coach for the Steelers, would outdo over half the D1 coaches. Personally, my list of current D1 coaches that would succeed in the NFL (now, so Bowden/Paterno get no lifetime achievement award) is probably less than 10, maybe even 5. Off the top of my head Charlie Weis, Bob Stoops, Jeff Tedford and Kirk Ferentz are the only 4 I'd trust at all. Add Paul Johnson if he can find 16 different QB's ;) Maybe I missed 1 or 2, but ignoring the retreads, I couldn't see coaches like Mack Brown, Mark Richt, Barry Alvarez, Bobby Petrino, Urban Meyer, Les Miles, Phil Fulmer, Mike Shula or Frank Beamer making the playoffs more than once every 3-4 years. Most would be solid coordinators on one side of the ball, but don't have the whole package necessary.

Am I missing some people here/way off base with my reasoning, or is the NFL legitimately that much harder?

[Blade6119]

I honestly couldnt disagree more...i think quite a few could do very well...the big difference in jobs is not the on field stuff, its the off the field...college coaches have to worry about academics, recruiting, university schedules, while pro coaches have their guys when the need them

[Passacaglia]

Gotta agree with Blade. I think it's just different environments. You can't say Pete Carroll can't succeed in the NFL, because he didn't before -- would you say the same about Belichick in Cleveland?

Besides, no NFL coach was smart enough to make Michael Bishop their starter..doesn't that tell you something? :)

[scooper]

It's all about whose style fits where. It's not as easy to say better or worse.

Besides, while Carroll fared poorly as a HC in the pros, he was a very good DC, which got him the shot in the first place.

I just don't think the answer to this is cut and dry.

[MalcPow]

I agree that it's not a fair comparison because of the major differences in the two situations. X's and O's are one thing, but organzing and motivating college kids (and everything that comes with them) can be very different from trying to do the same for professionals with completely different problems and responsibilities. I think Carroll is a great fit for the former, and Parcells a great fit for the latter, two very different personalities and styles that work in their respective contexts. So it's tough to quantify the "better" stuff, 90% of NFL coaches probably are better at coaching in the NFL, but might not find that to be the case in college. Keep in mind that for every Weis, there is a Bill Callahan or Dave Wannstedt or Al Groh.

[rkmsuf]

college football is much easier for the rah-rah motivational guys. I look at it as AAA football as you are dealing with boys.

pro football is where the rubber meets the road both X and O and relationship wise.

[wade moore]

I really have no input on the question...

I'm just wondering how you can come out and definitively say that Mike Martz is a failure as a coach in the NFL?!

[DanGarion]

I really have no input on the question...

I'm just wondering how you can come out and definitively say that Mike Martz is a failure as a coach in the NFL?!
You mean he isn't? Mike Martz is a TERRIBLE head coach, he consistently makes bad decisions and has terrible clock management.

[Ryche]

I think Mike Tice could actually be a very good college coach. His attitude (rah rah) would work better with college kids and he'd probably have an easier time keeping them in line. I wouldn't be shocked to see him end up in Maryland (his alma mater) or Washington some day.

College and the pros are just totally different situations, it's hard to tell how success in one will translate to the other.

[wade moore]

You mean he isn't? Mike Martz is a TERRIBLE head coach, he consistently makes bad decisions and has terrible clock management.
I'm not saying he's a genius...

but he has been to the super bowl and had very successful offenses... not sure that he's had a losing season yet?

I just don't see how you use him as your "failure" example... he has had quite a bit of success, so I don't see how you can just off and say he is a consensus terrible coach...

[BishopMVP]

I really have no input on the question...

I'm just wondering how you can come out and definitively say that Mike Martz is a failure as a coach in the NFL?!I thought that was the general consensus. Offensive genius who failed as a head coach because he was horrible at clock management and in-game decision making.
a Bill Callahan or Dave Wannstedt or Al Groh.I don't see how you can call any of these guys failures. Groh has had Virginia in the Top 25 every year since his first one, Callahan and Wannstedt haven't had a chance to put their mark on their teams. Carroll started off 2-5 at USC.
Besides, no NFL coach was smart enough to make Michael Bishop their starter..doesn't that tell you something? :)1-1 57 yds 1 td. Another reason why Carroll was a horrible head coach ;)

[dawgfan]

I thought that was the general consensus. Offensive genius who failed as a head coach because he was horrible at clock management and in-game decision making.

55-33, playoffs 4 of his first 5 years including a narrow Super Bowl loss, only 1 losing season (7-9).

Whatever his shortcomings, you have to admit that he's done very well. And before anyone says "Well look at the great team he inherited!" realize that it's not easy to keep a team on top, and recognize that in today's NFL it's hard to keep teams together for any length of time.

Is he one of the NFL's best coaches? Probably not, but he's far from a failure. If the "general consensus" says he's a failure, then the bar for success is being set extremely high.

[JasonC23]

College coaches vs NFL coaches? That's not a fair fight at all--there are a ton more college coaches!

Now, if assistant coaches can be added to the NFL coaches group, we've got something. The Redskins' staff alone makes up a huge portion of the gap.

[DanGarion]

55-33, playoffs 4 of his first 5 years including a narrow Super Bowl loss, only 1 losing season (7-9).

Whatever his shortcomings, you have to admit that he's done very well. And before anyone says "Well look at the great team he inherited!" realize that it's not easy to keep a team on top, and recognize that in today's NFL it's hard to keep teams together for any length of time.

Is he one of the NFL's best coaches? Probably not, but he's far from a failure. If the "general consensus" says he's a failure, then the bar for success is being set extremely high.
I think one of the main problems with Martz is that he replaced someone that a lot of people like (Vermil) and when you compare the two Martz just doesn't cut it.

[dawgfan]

I think one of the main problems with Martz is that he replaced someone that a lot of people like (Vermil) and when you compare the two Martz just doesn't cut it.

While acknowledging that Vermeil has 2 Super Bowl appearences and 1 trophy, is there really that much differentiating the two? I guess I just don't see much drop-off in performance between the two.

[DanGarion]

While acknowledging that Vermeil has 2 Super Bowl appearences and 1 trophy, is there really that much differentiating the two? I guess I just don't see much drop-off in performance between the two.
I think it's mostly perception. Most people I know like and respect Vermeil and they tend to not think much of Martz. And I'm talking about people that aren't even Rams fans.

[dawgfan]

Oh, I fully acknowledge that public perception of Martz is generally pretty negative. I'm just questioning the validity of that thinking.

[pennywisesb]

I think one of the main reasons college football coaches might struggle in the NFL is the lack of hands on decision making as far as personnel is concerned. For example, Carrol has said the reason he would never go back to the NFL is because he loves being able to make ALL the choices as far as recruitment, disciplining, etc.. In the NFL there is a chain of command on every team and most coaches don't have the final say in alot of matters (thats left up to the GM/owner) which I think can handicap certain coaches who were used to complete control. Just my .02.

[tucker342]

All I can say is that Kirk Ferentz better not try out the NFL anytime soon............. Some reasons it's great having a great up and coming coach but some reasons it sucks when he's basically rumored to be linked to every single head coach opening in the NFL and NCAA

[MalcPow]

I don't see how you can call any of these guys failures. Groh has had Virginia in the Top 25 every year since his first one, Callahan and Wannstedt haven't had a chance to put their mark on their teams. Carroll started off 2-5 at USC.

I live surrounded by frustrated Virginia fans, so maybe I'm a little too hard on Groh. But the fact remains, he took over a team coming off of a 6-6 season (and three straight 7-5 seasons) in 2001 and led them to a 5-7 record. And he since has lost less than five games only once (last year 8-4). His career record is 30-21. They're currently 4-3, and although they beat FSU, they don't look that good.

I'd be surprised if Callahan and Wannstedt turned out any differently (but Callahan is probably gone next year). I don't see going to a pretty big time program and putting up 7-5 and 8-5 seasons as indicative of some kind of special NFL knowledge they have over their peers. Weis has at least made a splash, and turned one of the most depressing offenses in college football into a very exciting one immediately. I pretty much stand by all three of those guys as proof NFL experience doesn't necessarily equip you to lord over college football.