Hmmmmmm.....concerned.

[Ben E Lou]

My wife is out of town for the weekend and hard to reach, or she'd be the first person I'm bouncing this off of. (She's with her parents in the mountains.... Non-existent mobile phone coverage, and away from the main phone line for most of the afternoon.) I wouldn't necessarily want to share this with any of my friends in the community, because if I'm misinterpreting this, I'd be mortified to have even brought it up, but I sent out an e-mail today, and received the following response, which greatly disturbed me:


----- Original Message ----- From: {Address Removed}
To: "Ben Lewis"
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: YL Northlake Christmas Party Date Moved...



> lookin forward to it...
>
> and by the way... just what is on YOUR xmas list Ben,? I hear you have been a very good boy this year...
>>
>> From: "Ben Lewis"
>> Date: 2005/12/02 Fri AM 08:38:10 EST
>> To: <"Friends of YL List">
>> Subject: YL Northlake Christmas Party Date Moved...
>>
>> Dear Friends of Young Life Northlake:
>>
>> Due to a recently-scheduled event that created a schedule conflict for nearly half of our committee members and some of our volunteer leaders, we have moved the Christmas Party to a Post-Christmas Celebration. It will now take place on TUESDAY, JANUARY 3RD at the home of Rodney and April Shaffer. We'll still celebrate the Feast Of The Incarnation together and have a ball being together. Sorry for the change, but a good chunk of our committee members need to be with their children on the 15th, and we very much was the Christmas Celebration to be a time where Committee Members and Volunteer Leaders can interact with one another. Please mark your calendars for the 3rd. (Yes, if you're receiving this e-mail, then you'll receive an invite to the celebration.) Hope to see many of y'all there!
>>
>> --Ben
>>
>
This didn't come necessarily in a vacuum, either. I've picked up a weird vibe from this lady before, in e-mails that I've considered to be mildly "flirty," face-to-face interactions, and now this. I need to send some kind of response to her, but really am at a loss as how to appropriately respond. I've called three people who I feel I can trust, but haven't been able to talk to any of them. I'd love some opinions....serious opinions only, please. Is it likely that I'm reading too much into that response, or am I right in being concerned about what she's getting at? Part of me is saying, "Geez, Ben, get over it. There's no way she'd make a pass via e-mail."

[Maple Leafs]

...serious opinions only, please.
Good luck with that.

[flere-imsaho]

Patriotic undies. That'll confuse her. :)


In all seriousness, I'd probably respond "She Who Must Be Obeyed is the keeper of my Christmas list, so you'll have to ask her."

[Raiders Army]

Don't know you and don't know her. I didn't read anything into it, other than she used xmas instead of Christmas. I always thought that was inappropriate, but maybe I heard the wrong thing.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

I don't think you're reading too much into it. It's dripping with desperation. I'm going to venture a guess she's divorced or a single mom? In any case, I think you should say something to her, otherwise she'll take your non-response as reciprocity and things will escalate.

[Hurst2112]

am i the only one who thinks there is nothing to worry about here?

am i missing something? how can you tell she is a divorced person or single mom.

by what you are showing us, she is one of the friendlier women in the world.

[vtbub]

I would respond using my happily married wife worked somewhere in the response.

[Hurst2112]

oh, and Ben...

take it from a guy who's been in a similar situation...

don't flatter yourself

;) (kidding)

[Joe]

don't hit it

[George]

I don't think you're reading too much into it, but I also don't think you should feel too concerned. It definitely sounds like she is flirting, especially when you are picking up other vibes.

You might try just brushing the comments aside. If it continues, and/or you feel uncomfortable, you should say something to her. As you noted, you'd probably want to be fairly certain that you weren't misinterpreting things.

You sound like a really level-headed guy. Just follow your gut.

[Passacaglia]

Why do you need to send a response? I'd say just ignore it.

[Huckleberry]

I think ignoring it is a bad idea.

Respond by telling her something you really hope your wife gets you. Use the phrase "my wife" at least twice.

If it continues explain to her "I realize you're not making a pass at me and probably aren't interested, but I feel the content of some of your conversations with me is inappropriate even for playful banter." She will then play it off like you're so silly and she wasn't flirting. Denial, you know the game. Allow it to play out like you misinterpreted the interaction. Even though you know you didn't.

Makes it easier for her to stop and act like you were wrong.

[Huckleberry]

dola -

The reason I think you need to confront it immediately is that it's obvious to me that you take this kind of thing very seriously and don't believe there's any place for it in your marriage. I just suggested a course of action that seemed to me would offer the most comfortable resolution possible for you.

[sachmo71]

Either don't respond or send a very generic response. Some people flirt. Some people flirt hard. Avoid her or ignore it, but unless she makes a pass at you, you can never be sure.

[Ben E Lou]

I don't think you're reading too much into it. It's dripping with desperation. I'm going to venture a guess she's divorced or a single mom? In any case, I think you should say something to her, otherwise she'll take your non-response as reciprocity and things will escalate.Well, she's not divorced, but she recently lost her job and is feeling "directionless" (her word), heightened because her mom died six months or so ago. She doesn't need to work for financial reasons, but feels unfulfilled because she's not working.

[Passacaglia]

Say you want an Xbox 360. Seriously. It's cant-lose. Either she backs off, and you're fine, or she gets you an Xbox.

[Huckleberry]

Ben can obviously decide for himself, but some married people aren't comfortable with any level of flirting from people that aren't their spouse.

The question I would ask myself is this:

"Is not risking the possible embarrassment of being wrong about her behavior more important to me than keeping my marriage happy and stress-free in the event that I'm right?"

[Senator]

I would include a missive about a romantic sleigh ride with your wife who is the love of your life, and that is the only gift you could ever want to receive.

or

Roll the Dice and ask what she has in mind because you are a free agent in the game of love.

Either or.

[sachmo71]

Ben can obviously decide for himself, but some married people aren't comfortable with any level of flirting from people that aren't their spouse.

The question I would ask myself is this:

"Is not risking the possible embarrassment of being wrong about her behavior more important to me than keeping my marriage happy and stress-free in the event that I'm right?"


If it's in Ben's nature to tell the lady that he's not comfortable with flirting, even if he's not sure what her intension is, than that's what he should do. I was speaking on the normal human level where we don't instantly respond to every stimulus that we receive.

[Huckleberry]

This didn't come necessarily in a vacuum, either. I've picked up a weird vibe from this lady before, in e-mails that I've considered to be mildly "flirty," face-to-face interactions, and now this.
Flyboys 1
Sailorboys 0

:)

[sachmo71]

Flyboys 1
Sailorboys 0

:)


I just don't see how this would affect Ben's marriage?

[Radii]

That seems to me like its the type of e-mail that does not require a reply. If her e-mail said "I'm looking forward to it. Hope you get everything you want for Christmas" would you feel a need to reply to it?

That said, I definitely do not think you are reading too much into it. I'd be showing that e-mail to my wife when she got back in town to make sure she knew what was going on just so there'd be no possible way she could ever get blindsided by anything(a friend commenting on a flirty lady around you, etc). If you do feel a need to reply, I would make sure to comment that you hope your wife buys you <insert very boring item here>.

[Huckleberry]

I just don't see how this would affect Ben's marriage?
To me, the fact that her behavior leading up to this and this e-mail in particular prompted Ben to make a post about it indicates he is concerned about the situation. If he's concerned about the situation he will most likely worry about it.

Secretly worrying about another woman's flirtation isn't exactly conducive to a happy and stress-free marriage. Ben would be stressed about it if it continued or, especially, accelerated.

So, obviously, his marriage would be affected.

[Hurst2112]

Say you want an Xbox 360. Seriously. It's cant-lose. Either she backs off, and you're fine, or she gets you an Xbox.

just make sure you ask for something for your wife too.

[oliegirl]

What if you posted something like "My xmas wish is to have all of my friends and family find the love and happiness that I have"...then you make it clear that you are taken but also wish her well without too much embarassment....

[Ben E Lou]

Without going into a bunch of background info as to why, suffice it to say that my interactions on a friendship with the general adult population have been pretty limited up until the last 2-3 years. Therefore, I ask this question: is there such a thing in some people's mind as "innocent" flirting among married folks (ie flirting not intended to lead to anything more)? In the circles I've run in up until recently, there was no such thing, and any flirting whatsoever with or among married folks would be considered 100% inappropriate, but I'm picking up a sense in this thread that this sort of thing could be considered acceptable to some people.

[sachmo71]

To me, the fact that her behavior leading up to this and this e-mail in particular prompted Ben to make a post about it indicates he is concerned about the situation. If he's concerned about the situation he will most likely worry about it.

Secretly worrying about another woman's flirtation isn't exactly conducive to a happy and stress-free marriage. Ben would be stressed about it if it continued or, especially, accelerated.

So, obviously, his marriage would be affected.


Man, you guys see things in a much deeper light than I do.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Well, she's not divorced, but she recently lost her job and is feeling "directionless" (her word), heightened because her mom died six months or so ago. She doesn't need to work for financial reasons, but feels unfulfilled because she's not working.Ah, I was close. Find her a job, that'll solve the problem. :D

[Hurst2112]

Without going into a bunch of background info as to why, suffice it to say that my interactions on a friendship with the general adult population have been pretty limited up until the last 2-3 years. Therefore, I ask this question: is there such a thing in some people's mind as "innocent" flirting among married folks (ie flirting not intended to lead to anything more)? In the circles I've run in up until recently, there was no such thing, and any flirting whatsoever with or among married folks would be considered 100% inappropriate, but I'm picking up a sense in this thread that this sort of thing could be considered acceptable to some people.

nothing wrong with innocent flirting among married folks.

course, my first wife was a whore who took it too damn far but i digress.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Without going into a bunch of background info as to why, suffice it to say that my interactions on a friendship with the general adult population have been pretty limited up until the last 2-3 years. Therefore, I ask this question: is there such a thing in some people's mind as "innocent" flirting among married folks (ie flirting not intended to lead to anything more)? In the circles I've run in up until recently, there was no such thing, and any flirting whatsoever with or among married folks would be considered 100% inappropriate, but I'm picking up a sense in this thread that this sort of thing could be considered acceptable to some people.How can I get girls to flirt like this with Arlie? :p

[Huckleberry]

Without going into a bunch of background info as to why, suffice it to say that my interactions on a friendship with the general adult population have been pretty limited up until the last 2-3 years. Therefore, I ask this question: is there such a thing in some people's mind as "innocent" flirting among married folks (ie flirting not intended to lead to anything more)? In the circles I've run in up until recently, there was no such thing, and any flirting whatsoever with or among married folks would be considered 100% inappropriate, but I'm picking up a sense in this thread that this sort of thing could be considered acceptable to some people.Absolutely it's considered acceptable by some people. But the only thing that's important here, IMO, is whether it's considered acceptable by you and your wife.

I don't recall your ever posting about children (could be wrong and my apologies if so), so in my world view your job as husband is your most important job in life at this point. Clearly others may disagree, even you depending on the importance the ministry and your religion play in your life, and I recognize that this is my opinion. But if it makes you uncomfortable and/or you have a reasonable belief that it would make your wife uncomfortable then that is plenty of reason to react.

edited to add:

Let's put it this way. Your responsibility to your wife is clearly greater than your responsibility to not misinterpret this woman's behavior.

[sachmo71]

Telling your wife is a good idea. Just think about it before calling this lady out, especially if you have to deal with her in the future. Obviously your marriage is the most important thing here. I agree with the Chairforce representative.

[Ben E Lou]

Secretly worrying about another woman's flirtation isn't exactly conducive to a happy and stress-free marriage. Ben would be stressed about it if it continued or, especially, accelerated.Well, I certainly will not be secretly worrying. The first thing I did when I read it was call SWMBO. Once I hear from her<s>e</s>, {Important edit. Oops!} I'll share it with her (EDIT: my wife) word for word, and a few other e-mails from her (EDIT: the mom) with somewhat-concerning comments.


My question about "acceptability" gets to the heart of how strongly I would want to confront this. If she is flirting "innocently," and in her worldview there's nothing wrong with that, I don't want her to feel condemned by me...but at the same time, I sure wouldn't want it to continue, because I am 100% not comfortable with any flirting whatsoever, other than with my wife.

[sachmo71]

Well, I certainly will not be secretly worrying. The first thing I did when I read it was call SWMBO. Once I hear from here, I'll share it with her word for word, and a few other e-mails from her with somewhat-concerning comments.


My question about "acceptability" gets to the heart of how strongly I would want to confront this. If she is flirting "innocently," and in her worldview there's nothing wrong with that, I don't want her to feel condemned by me...but at the same time, I sure wouldn't want it to continue, because I am 100% not comfortable with any flirting whatsoever, other than with my wife.


If you absolutely can't ignore it, you have to deal with it. What you have to realize is she may not even be aware she's doing it, so she may be surprised if you say something.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm picking up a sense in this thread that this sort of thing could be considered acceptable to some people.

That's probably not too far off the mark. It is, I guess, considered just "some people's way". (I'll say a little more on that in a second)

After reading the quoted email several times, just to see what nuances I picked up, I'll offer the following FWIW:

1) My first reaction was a lot like that of She-Rahn -- this woman is either recently divorced or otherwise unattached. I kinda pictured Blance Devereaux or Suzanne Sugarbaker.
2) I think your interpretation is reasonable ... but that doesn't neccessarily make it correct either.
3) Whether you mention it to your wife depends, IMO, on how she reacts to "casual flirting".

Now about "casual flirting" & the whole idea of such a thing. The majority of my media sales reps are women, ranging in age from 22 to 60ish, and from all over the country. Out of those, I could think of at least a half dozen who easily could have sent me an email worded the same way ... and not a one of them has ever: seen me, has any realistic interest in me, nor anything resembling "intent".

In other words, the flirtatious (or ambiguous) nature of the remark is more or less just part of their personality. It may be an appealing/charming part or be highly unappealing, but it's basically in the same category as someone who uses too much internet shorthand (LOL, IMO, etc) in their emails. It's a quirky thing, not really a coming-on-to-you thing.

If your only interaction with this woman is going to be at the level of the very unusual email or once in a blue moon at something like a Christmas party, then I'd think you just react to this the same way you would if, say, a bank teller was a little too friendly when you stop by to cash in some change or if the cashier at your regular gas stop made a similar remark. Whatever you'd do in those situations is probably a pretty good benchmark for what to do here.

My .02 FWIW.

Oops, edit to add: I also agree with Radii's observation "That seems to me like its the type of e-mail that does not require a reply."

[lighthousekeeper]

...suffice it to say that my interactions on a friendship with the general adult population have been pretty limited up until the last 2-3 years.

That seems pretty obvious considering how bent out of shape your getting over a woman being friendly with you. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you're a youth group leader or something.

Remember that some people incorporate this type of (I woundn't even call it flirting) language as part of their normal conversational tools. I'm sure we all know 1 or 2 people who are like this - who regularly speak in a flirty/provocative language despite any feelings. It's just how they interact with people.

[sachmo71]

Some people see their spouses being flirted with as a compliment. So to them, it's acceptable, but everyone has boundaries.

[wishbone]

In the circles I've run in up until recently, there was no such thing, and any flirting whatsoever with or among married folks would be considered 100% inappropriate, but I'm picking up a sense in this thread that this sort of thing could be considered acceptable to some people.

It varies wildly, I'm sure that the Amish (any Amish on here to back me up?) don't have a lot of extra-marital innocent flirting but there are a lot of other people that do. We have some friends that we are more flirtatious with than others, it depends on people's comfort level and how well you know someone more than anything else. We're not swingers or anything, honestly, I'm not good looking enough to do that.

When I first started dating my wife we were sitting on the couch and her mom's best friend sat very close to me and said to my wife "If I were younger, I'd give you a run for your money" I reached my arm around her (mom's friend) and said that didn't sound so bad. After that, I was part of the family and we all laugh about it now.

So the questions is, is the email innocent? Who knows, but let's examine some of the possibilities:

1. Your wife has no idea what to get you for Christmas and has asked this lady to fish around and see if she can find out.

2. The lady thinks you have been a good boy this year meaning she is really grateful for your work in the community and would like to show her appreciation with a heart-felt gift.

3. She drives by your house every night wondering "Does he have a sleeping bag?"

4. The Lady is actually a forum member who is deep undercover.

5. The pyramids were built by this lady, certain aliens and Atlanteans and have chosen you to be the king if you can pass one simple test still to be determined.

It's tough to say...

[Ben E Lou]

If your only interaction with this woman is going to be at the level of the very unusual email or once in a blue moon at something like a Christmas party, then I'd think you just react to this the same way you would if, say, a bank teller was a little too friendly when you stop by to cash in some change or if the cashier at your regular gas stop made a similar remark. Whatever you'd do in those situations is probably a pretty good benchmark for what to do here.Yeah, that would be the case. However:

1. She has two kids currently involved in my ministry.
2. She has a third who is around 8-9 years old and who will probably be involved 2-3 years from now.
3. As I said, she recently lost her job and she therefore is one of the first adults to volunteer when we need desserts made, envelopes stuffed, etc.

Just looking through my e-mails, I've received 17 from her in the last 6 weeks, and 28 total in the last three months, and I'd imagine I've had direct face-to-face interaction with her 5 or 6 times during those 3 months, but that amount is about to sharply increase, due to her son's sport (wrestling) starting up.

So no, I just can't avoid her.


While I was typing this, SWMBO called. :) I read the e-mail and told her the vibe I'd been getting. She agreed that it might be "innocent" flirting and the best thing to do for now would be to let it slide, and not respond to this particular e-mail at all.

[Deattribution]

Wow, you people are really reading into this stuff - I hope the nexttime you take your kid to a mall santa and he ask whether they've been naughty or nice you don't take it as he's wanting to get into their pants.

Reply harmlessly or ignore it, otherwise youre more likely to make yourself look like an ass because if you 'reject' her, there's no way she's going to admit to it, and you obviously don't want to flirt back.

[jeff061]

I agree with Huckleberry. I'd pretend you are not picking up any vibes and reply to her question as such, while mentioning your wife a couple times. Hopefully she'll get the point and things won't get akward.

[sachmo71]

I agree with Huckleberry. I'd pretend you are not picking up any vibes and reply to her question as sach, while mentioning your wife a couple times. Hopefully she'll get the point and things won't get akward.


Don't get me involved in this!

Is she cute?

[jeff061]

Hehe, was wondering what the hell you were talking about for a second ;).

[st.cronin]

I always assume that women are flirting with me, and flirt back accordingly. It is entirely possible to do this innocently; I frequently flirt with my fiancee's girlfriends. I'm not talking about sexual innuendo or anything that could be interpreted as 'making moves.'

[DanGarion]

Say you want an Xbox 360. Seriously. It's cant-lose. Either she backs off, and you're fine, or she gets you an Xbox.
Better yet,
Say you wanted a xbox360 but your wife said it was too expensive, but you still hope someone gets you one. :) That way you cover all the bases.

[Ben E Lou]

What on earth would I do with an XBox?

[Mustang]

What on earth would I do with an XBox?

Sell it and buy something for your wife.

[Mustang]

Oh and..

I'd flirt it.

[Passacaglia]

Sell it and buy something for your wife.

Seriously. According to lurker, you can sell those things for more now, since they're so hard to get.

[korme]

Say you want an Xbox 360. Seriously. It's cant-lose. Either she backs off, and you're fine, or she gets you an Xbox.
GOLD

[Buccaneer]

I, for one, set very closed-in boundaries on flirtations, etc. It's just not appropriate, imo. In responding to the email, I simply let your wife respond for you.

[GoldenEagle]

Roll the Dice and ask what she has in mind because you are a free agent in the game of love.
FOFC don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures of having a wife and a girlfriend come wit'!

[korme]

I'm so late to this party.

[st.cronin]

Just to add to what I said before, I think this is obviously a situation where you do exactly what your wife says.

[Easy Mac]

I think it's peanut butter jelly time.

[Glengoyne]

How can I get girls to flirt like this with Arlie? :p
I would think you would have any women in Arlie's life too damn scared to flirt with him.


That said, the fact that you apparently want girls to flirt with your husband makes me wonder. Do you guys have shag carpet?

[Izulde]

Eh, innocent flirtation is no big deal in my book. Most of the people I know, both male and female, including the married ones, engage in it and everyone knows it's just flirtation and nothing more.

However, given your situation Ben, I'd agree with those who suggest telling your wife about it.. Maybe something along the lines of, "Here this woman goes trying to flirt with me again. :rolleyes:" and make it something amusing that you two can laugh about.

[Buccaneer]

By the way, I had a similar experience pre-marriage. I had a girlfriend at work and there was this other girl that was pestering me to take her out via 'talk'. Since my gf worked in my office, I just let her reply to her. Not only did that shut her up but she soon left the company. I wished I remember what she wrote.

[Bonegavel]

Ben's 3way:
[21:12] manwholovestofly: Hi. Are you there?
[21:12] bensbeenagoodboy: Ben?
[21:13] Ben E Lou: yes
[21:14] bensbeenagoodboy: yes, what?
[21:14] Ben E Lou: Huh? Oh, aren't you going to say hello?
[21:14] manwholovestofly: I already said hi
[21:15] Ben E Lou: What do you want?
[21:15] bensbeenagoodboy: Hello, Ben. I was just kidding about the "real good boy" stuff.
[21:15] bensbeenagoodboy: I actually hope you've been real bad.
[21:16] Ben E Lou: oh yeah, why?
[21:16] manwholovestofly: because that's what you say to start off conversations, duh
[21:16] bensbeenagoodboy: bad boys get spanked.
[21:17] Ben E Lou: ... I don't know what to say.
[21:17] manwholovestofly: how about "thanks for posting in my diary" for starters dude >:(
[21:17] bensbeenagoodboy: say you like spankings
[21:20] Ben E Lou: I, I really don't know what to say. This isn't good.
[21:20] manwholovestofly: I heard the game was great. Are you serious?
[21:20] bensbeenagoodboy: It's all good for those who are bad.
[21:20] bensbeenagoodboy: Should I come over and give you your present?
[21:21] manwholovestofly: I think I need to get a job so I can buy the game.
[21:21] Ben E Lou: No, no you shouldn't.
[21:22] bensbeenagoodboy: Aww, spoil-sport.
[21:22] manwholovestofly: Yeah, you're probably right. I don't need it that bad.
[21:23] bensbeenagoodboy: Am I making you uncomfortable?
[21:23] manwholovestofly: now i know you dont take requests but could you do a UNC diary?
[21:24] Ben E Lou: Yes.
[21:24] bensbeenagoodboy: Happily married, never to stray?
[21:25] manwholovestofly: when can i expect this? You R teh man!
[21:25] Ben E Lou: Never.
[21:25] manwholovestofly: ??
[21:25] manwholovestofly: Well, can you at least get me the latest beta?
Now, seriously, I would respond with something that had a lot of "God" in it to remind her "why" you are in her life to begin with.

something like, "God has blessed my wife and I this year so much that I don't think there is anything that I could get for Christmas that would compare to the love I have for [insert wife's name.]" She may get the hint and stop emailing you.

Or, you could just blow off the email, don't reply, and make sure you NEVER EVER EVER NEVER have her as a solo "volunteer" for any trips or whatnot you do with the kids. Don't ever give her the opportunity to brush up against your arm by "accident" or trip into your arms with a giddy "oops!"

And this is as much for her protection as it is for yours. I'm not saying you would EVER cheat on your wife, but sometimes these things can snowball out of control of everyone involved and you could find yourself liking the "attention" you get from her and one thing could lead to another.

Whatever you do, I wouldn't be point blank about it. Even if she is "flirting" with you and would like to go further, by calling her out you could cause a mild case of Fatal Attraction-itis and accidentally create a scorned enemy for life.

[Kodos]

I see nothing wrong with flirtation with people who understand that it's just harmless fun. Of course, sometimes that leads to bunnies getting boiled in the end, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.

I tend to end up with odd interactions with people that I work with, especially the females. I rip on people a lot in playful ways that are intended to bounce off the "victim" harmlessly. For instance, I regularly call one of my female coworkers "hag", and she responds very positively. "Get away from my desk, YOU HAG." Gets a laugh every time. It started when I was saying something to her, and then decided to tack on a random insult at the end. It came out as something like "Leave me alone, you hog." To which she responded in shock. I then explained that I meant to call her a "hag," but it came out wrong. This cleared things up, and I've called her a hag ever since. I think it's just a way to blow off steam because our job has really sucked this year.

It's kind of strange, really. At every job I've ever had, I've been able to jokingly say things that other people would never get away with saying and get laughs. The exact same thing I might say coming from someone else would get genuine anger, but when I say it, it gets a laugh because it's me. Although there have been a few times where I thought somebody knew I was playing around with them only to find out later that they thought I truly hated them. But those cases have been very rare.

When it comes down to it, I'm a little bit off. But hopefully in a pleasant way. :)

What was the topic again?

[Bonegavel]

I see nothing wrong with flirtation with people who understand that it's just harmless fun. Of course, sometimes that leads to bunnies getting boiled in the end, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.

I tend to end up with odd interactions with people that I work with, especially the females. I rip on people a lot in playful ways that are intended to bounce off the "victim" harmlessly. For instance, I regularly call one of my female coworkers "hag", and she responds very positively. "Get away from my desk, YOU HAG." Gets a laugh every time. It started when I was saying something to her, and then decided to tack on a random insult at the end. It came out as something like "Leave me alone, you hog." To which she responded in shock. I then explained that I meant to call her a "hag," but it came out wrong. This cleared things up, and I've called her a hag ever since. I think it's just a way to blow off steam because our job has really sucked this year.

When it comes down to it, I'm a little bit off. But hopefully in a pleasant way. :)

What was the topic again?
What you don't know is that she flicks pubic hairs and crusted snot in your coffee and all your pens have been down her crack a few times.

Slipping up on "hag" and using "hog" is like asking somebody if they'd like to be killed by a "bunker buster" or a full-fledged thermo-nuclear device. Both will sting a bit.

[Kodos]

But that's the thing. She is probably my best friend at work. She knows that I would never say something that was actually intended to hurt her feelings (or anyone else), so it's okay. That's exactly my point. I think you are right -- if anyone else but me was saying it, her feelings would have been hurt -- no question. She's a sensitive girl. But she knows me well enough to know that I wouldn't say something intended to hurt her, so it gets a laugh. Plus, she's clearly not a hag. She's young and reasonably cute. I tried to come up with an insult she could use on me -- "troglodyte" was the most fitting one I could come up with, but it doesn't roll off of the tongue like hag does. :)

[sterlingice]

In any case, I think you should say something to her, otherwise she'll take your non-response as reciprocity and things will escalate.
This is just baffling to me to no end. How is not doing anything an escalation? I think there are just some things in this world that are much too over-thought.

SI

[cthomer5000]

This is just baffling to me to no end. How is not doing anything an escalation? I think there are just some things in this world that are much too over-thought.

SI
you've just taken your first step into the larger (crazier) world of the female mind.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

I would think you would have any women in Arlie's life too damn scared to flirt with him.


That said, the fact that you apparently want girls to flirt with your husband makes me wonder. Do you guys have shag carpet?
No but Arlie has some wicked chest hair. And a gold medalion.

And really, I'm not that intimidating. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

This is just baffling to me to no end. How is not doing anything an escalation? I think there are just some things in this world that are much too over-thought.

SI
By doing nothing he implies he's ok with her flirting, or that it didn't even register as flirting so she'll try harder.

[CraigSca]

I see nothing wrong with flirtation with people who understand that it's just harmless fun. Of course, sometimes that leads to bunnies getting boiled in the end, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.

I tend to end up with odd interactions with people that I work with, especially the females. I rip on people a lot in playful ways that are intended to bounce off the "victim" harmlessly. For instance, I regularly call one of my female coworkers "hag", and she responds very positively. "Get away from my desk, YOU HAG." Gets a laugh every time. It started when I was saying something to her, and then decided to tack on a random insult at the end. It came out as something like "Leave me alone, you hog." To which she responded in shock. I then explained that I meant to call her a "hag," but it came out wrong. This cleared things up, and I've called her a hag ever since. I think it's just a way to blow off steam because our job has really sucked this year.

It's kind of strange, really. At every job I've ever had, I've been able to jokingly say things that other people would never get away with saying and get laughs. The exact same thing I might say coming from someone else would get genuine anger, but when I say it, it gets a laugh because it's me. Although there have been a few times where I thought somebody knew I was playing around with them only to find out later that they thought I truly hated them. But those cases have been very rare.

When it comes down to it, I'm a little bit off. But hopefully in a pleasant way. :)

What was the topic again?
Interesting that you mention this because I am very much the same way. Very dry and sarcastic and 99% of the time people understand it - but I usually only let this surface after a mutual "getting to know you" occurs. For instance, I wouldn't throw out, "hey jerk!" to a person I just met (as I'm sure you wouldn't either).

At my previous company I had been there a number of years and developed a rapport with a number of people back at corporate. One day, we had a conference call and on the call I happened to "good-naturedly" call one of the guys I had known for a long time a "jerk". This was during a part of the call where we were all laughing about something and joking about some particular event (which escapes me now). About 10 minutes later the call ends and we all say our good byes, "have a good weekend", whatever. About half an hour later my manager (who wasn't on the call) calls me to say that the guy I called a jerk was FURIOUS. I was completely blind-sided as his demeanor during the conference call did not change at all after i made my comment. If I had noticed any change in tone or annoyance, I would have apologized on the spot. However, I had known this guy for years and I had been joking around with him in this way for as long as I could remember.

I placed a phone call with him immediately and he WAS pissed. I wholeheartedly apologized and smoothed everything out, but it was something that stuck with me. You may THINK your kidding around is good-natured (as I did, and still do), but it sometimes will blindside the hell out of you.

[Bonegavel]

You may THINK your kidding around is good-natured (as I did, and still do), but it sometimes will blindside the hell out of you.
hence, Kodos is probably drinking caffeinated pubic hairs.

I believe in the never-take-a-chance—play-it-safe methodology. Some people have ZERO sense of humor and can be quite vicious behind your back. They use your toothbrush on the toilet, piss in your mouthwash, etc. etc. And you'll likely never know...

I hate my over-active imagination. I creep myself out sometimes.

[Kodos]

Interesting that you mention this because I am very much the same way. Very dry and sarcastic and 99% of the time people understand it - but I usually only let this surface after a mutual "getting to know you" occurs. For instance, I wouldn't throw out, "hey jerk!" to a person I just met (as I'm sure you wouldn't either).

At my previous company I had been there a number of years and developed a rapport with a number of people back at corporate. One day, we had a conference call and on the call I happened to "good-naturedly" call one of the guys I had known for a long time a "jerk". This was during a part of the call where we were all laughing about something and joking about some particular event (which escapes me now). About 10 minutes later the call ends and we all say our good byes, "have a good weekend", whatever. About half an hour later my manager (who wasn't on the call) calls me to say that the guy I called a jerk was FURIOUS. I was completely blind-sided as his demeanor during the conference call did not change at all after i made my comment. If I had noticed any change in tone or annoyance, I would have apologized on the spot. However, I had known this guy for years and I had been joking around with him in this way for as long as I could remember.

I placed a phone call with him immediately and he WAS pissed. I wholeheartedly apologized and smoothed everything out, but it was something that stuck with me. You may THINK your kidding around is good-natured (as I did, and still do), but it sometimes will blindside the hell out of you.

I have had a couple times where it went very much like yours did. And it does totally blindside you. Just as you said, when I first meet people, I start off in a very generic friendly mode. It's a real part of my personality, but I enjoy the harmlessly sarcastic side much more, so once I get comfortable with someone, I will gradually introduce them to my sense of humor. If they don't seem to get it, I just stay in generic mode forever. There are definitely people who don't get my humor. To paraphrase Gary Larson, you don't want to show a Far Side strip to someone who is a fan of Nancy or Family Circle.

If they seem to laugh at my jokes that aren't aimed at them, I will slowly introduce harmless jokes at their expense. My jokes are always intended to bounce harmlessly off people, but if they ever seem offended, back to generic mode I go with them. I've been with my current company for going on 7 years, so at this point I have a pretty good rapport with people, and I know who will take my jokes as they are intended and who is more brittle. Honestly, I spend a lot more time around the people who I can joke freely with, because I enjoy being able to say whatever comes to mind without fear of hurting someone's feelings.

So I am extremely confident that I am not being secretly fed pubic hairs and that they don't line the handle to my car door with dog shit.

On the other hand, my former boss was similar to me, except for the fact that she is a bitch at heart and doesn't want anyone to be happy because she isn't. She can't eat in a restaurant without sending some item back because it didn't meet one of her endless specifications. She also banters with the waiters like she's known them for years. I have no doubt that she has swallowed all sorts of foreign materials. :D

[sterlingice]

By doing nothing he implies he's ok with her flirting, or that it didn't even register as flirting so she'll try harder.http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/images/smiles/icon_boom.gif

SI