Bowl Bound Problem

[tarcone]

ok i downloaded the game and paid my 35 bucks
i went to start the game and i get the Bowl Bound Start up page and it goes no further. in fact thats all i see


WTF????

[IMetTrentGreen]

thats the game. you should have played the demo before you wasted your money

[Eaglesfan27]

I'd try contacting Grey Dog's support link on their website. Of course, Arlie or one of the team might see your comment here, but if you use their official support I'm fairly certain you will get a timely reply.

[Ragone]

did you try rebooting first?

[tarcone]

yes i rebotted and still same problem

[ThunderingHERD]

What do you mean the startup page? The first thing I see is the main menu.

[tarcone]

what i see is the bowl bound college football page with the heisman like player with lots of numbers running thru him there is a pennant in the upper left hand corner....almost looks like a oklahoma pennant
thats all i get nothing more

[Zippo]

what i see is the bowl bound college football page with the heisman like player with lots of numbers running thru him there is a pennant in the upper left hand corner....almost looks like a oklahoma pennant
thats all i get nothing more
you don't get these buttons on the bottom?

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/images/bb/screens/splash.jpg

[MizzouRah]

I'd try contacting Grey Dog's support link on their website. Of course, Arlie or one of the team might see your comment here, but if you use their official support I'm fairly certain you will get a timely reply.
What he said.

[ScottVib]

The issue sounds like your screen resolution. Make sure you are running at least 768x1024 resolution, my guess is your at 800x600 and the bottom buttons are getting cut off.

[DanGarion]

The issue sounds like your screen resolution. Make sure you are running at least 768x1024 resolution, my guess is your at 800x600 and the bottom buttons are getting cut off.
And welcome to the 21st Century :).

(not you Scott)

[Arles]

ok i downloaded the game and paid my 35 bucks
i went to start the game and i get the Bowl Bound Start up page and it goes no further. in fact thats all i see


WTF????
Try scott's resolution fix. You may also want to make sure your fonts are set to "normal" and 96 DPI. Some people have had some issues with those two with certain resolutions.

[tarcone]

Sweet. i guess i needed to join the 21st century
changing the resolution worked....wasnt really in a thinking mode last night when i was messing with it
thanks for the help

[DanGarion]

Sweet. i guess i needed to join the 21st century
changing the resolution worked....wasnt really in a thinking mode last night when i was messing with it
thanks for the help
No offense I was just playing, but I'm sure you will be happy with the better resolution!

[bbor]

thats the game. you should have played the demo before you wasted your money


:D :D

[RendeR]

I hate to sound old fashioned, but writing software that forces you to use a higher resolution is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. If you can't get your information into an 800x600 screen res then you need to re-examine what you are trying to accomplish.

[DanGarion]

I hate to sound old fashioned, but writing software that forces you to use a higher resolution is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. If you can't get your information into an 800x600 screen res then you need to re-examine what you are trying to accomplish.
You're kidding right?

I've always had a pet pevee with both OOTP, 400, and GDC games because they have a fixed resolution, but I would never agree that all the information should fit in 800*600, there are too many numbers for that resolution to work with any numbers game (IMO).

[RendeR]

I think its more of forcing any one resolution on your customers that is the stupid part.

If you have enough time and talent to create the game you ought to have the smarts to make it scalable to the users's set resolution, its a simple matter of checking the screen res on start up, and not making an interface that can't adjust.

simple laziness in my humble opinion.

[DanGarion]

I think its more of forcing any one resolution on your customers that is the stupid part.

If you have enough time and talent to create the game you ought to have the smarts to make it scalable to the users's set resolution, its a simple matter of checking the screen res on start up, and not making an interface that can't adjust.

simple laziness in my humble opinion.
Ok so you and I are on the same page.

[Arles]

I think its more of forcing any one resolution on your customers that is the stupid part.

If you have enough time and talent to create the game you ought to have the smarts to make it scalable to the users's set resolution, its a simple matter of checking the screen res on start up, and not making an interface that can't adjust.

simple laziness in my humble opinion.
The problem with your logic is that aspects of the game become unreadable or look awful if we go to 800X600. So, the choice was to either change the display to not be as useful (ie, less info) to the 90+% of our customers at 1024X760+ so it will work on 800X600 OR to not support 800X600. I guess you could make the same argument that we should have also refrained from using better speed and data storage methods to allow people to play the game on Windows 95 (and make XP users suffer), but we chose another route there as well.

At some point, you have to choose a minimum spec for the game's use. We felt that Windows 98, 1024 res and 128 MB RAM was a safe enough baseline not to hurt out customer base. It was our opinion that going below any of those would impair the ability of most users to enjoy the game.

[Antmeister]

I think its more of forcing any one resolution on your customers that is the stupid part.

If you have enough time and talent to create the game you ought to have the smarts to make it scalable to the users's set resolution, its a simple matter of checking the screen res on start up, and not making an interface that can't adjust.

simple laziness in my humble opinion.

Unfortunately it is way too difficult to accomadate the vast array of users on Windows based machines. That is why most games (commercial and independent) have minimum specs. I think where the problem lies is that people aren't veiwing the minimum specs on the web site.

[gstelmack]

If you have enough time and talent to create the game you ought to have the smarts to make it scalable to the users's set resolution, its a simple matter of checking the screen res on start up, and not making an interface that can't adjust.

simple laziness in my humble opinion.
FWIW, my Master's Thesis (which I never got around to completing) was on designing resolution-independent interfaces. It's a very difficult problem. Best solutions for a text sim is along the lines of deciding on a minimum res, then adding toolbars, buttons, and the like as the resolution grows.

But frankly, 1024x768 has become the standard for today's PCs. That's a very typical LCD resolution (most LCD TVs are at that res or the widescreen 16x9 or 16x10 equivalent), most people are running that or higher, and so designing your interface to handle that as a minimum is a very reasonable thing to do. The amount of your market that you cut out is small and it makes for a much better experience for the rest of your market.

I've run into monitors that WON'T run 640x480 but instead require something higher which has caused fits for older games that use that as the default.

[RendeR]

The problem with your logic is that aspects of the game become unreadable or look awful if we go to 800X600. So, the choice was to either change the display to not be as useful (ie, less info) to the 90+% of our customers at 1024X760+ so it will work on 800X600 OR to not support 800X600. I guess you could make the same argument that we should have also refrained from using better speed and data storage methods to allow people to play the game on Windows 95 (and make XP users suffer), but we chose another route there as well.

At some point, you have to choose a minimum spec for the game's use. We felt that Windows 98, 1024 res and 128 MB RAM was a safe enough baseline not to hurt out customer base. It was our opinion that going below any of those would impair the ability of most users to enjoy the game.
But Arles, you have no real way of knowing anything about the resolutions your customers are using and even the feedback you get from a few of them certainly cannot be a valid enough selection to make you believe that 90% of people are using 1024 resolutions.

I won't argue that making a program run in any resolution is hard, I can even understand ignoring outdated resolutions like 640x480. What I can't understand is intentionally choosing to cause problems for any section of your customer base. This isn't about supporting old or outdated material now, 800x600 resolution is still an industry standard, wether you or I want to believe it is or not.

Its boring, tedious and a pain in the ass to create solid, unbreakable user interfaces for any and all resolutions, but it is NOT impossible. I can accept that you chose this path to program your system, I still believe your choice has no basis in anything but making it easier for youself to get the game to market. If scaling text and program information gets grainy, don't scale it, write the code to test the resolution and create the interface accordingly. Scaling works fine for some things, just not all things.

Again, I'm not trying to bust your chops about it, I've spent years creating UI's for high end web sites, which I believe completely, is far harder than for self contained programs due to the constant ability of the end user to scale their screen to various sizes in numerous resolutions. So i know that it can be done, the unbreakable user interface is possible, you just have to put the time and effort into it. Hence my previous posts.

[MizzouRah]

This isn't about supporting old or outdated material now, 800x600 resolution is still an industry standard, wether you or I want to believe it is or not.

This statement is not 100% accurate. I work in the industry and if you become employed where I work, you'll get a pc with our corporate image which is set to 1024x768, if you want 800x600 you'll have to do it yourself or call in a ticket.

People still use that resolution, but if you took a poll I would bet better than 75% use a resolution higher than 800x600. In fact, maybe even as high as 9 out of every 10 - and gamer's only polled, maybe 19 out 20.

[Arles]

But Arles, you have no real way of knowing anything about the resolutions your customers are using and even the feedback you get from a few of them certainly cannot be a valid enough selection to make you believe that 90% of people are using 1024 resolutions.
If you have Windows 98, you can use 1024 resolution in 90+% of the cases. Given Windows 98 is a requirement, I feel pretty safe with the assumption that an overwhelming majority of potential BBCF customers can run 1024.

I won't argue that making a program run in any resolution is hard

its a simple matter of checking the screen res on start up, and not making an interface that can't adjust.

simple laziness in my humble opinion.

Seems like you are arguing with yourself here.

What I can't understand is intentionally choosing to cause problems for any section of your customer base. This isn't about supporting old or outdated material now, 800x600 resolution is still an industry standard, wether you or I want to believe it is or not.
If enough people decide to not buy the game because it doesn't support 800x600, then we will pay the price. I seriously doubt that will happen, but that's a risk we have decided to take.

Its boring, tedious and a pain in the ass to create solid, unbreakable user interfaces for any and all resolutions, but it is NOT impossible.
No one is saying it's impossible. But, as you say, it takes time and would have limited a few of our design decisions.

I can accept that you chose this path to program your system, I still believe your choice has no basis in anything but making it easier for youself to get the game to market. If scaling text and program information gets grainy, don't scale it, write the code to test the resolution and create the interface accordingly. Scaling works fine for some things, just not all things.
GDS is not an army of programmers - in fact there was just one on BBCF. I chose to devote my time on things like a good stat engine, solid recruiting and overall fun gameplay. I respect the fact you may have chosen to take time away from one of those activities to spend towards making the game work for 800x600 - I simply disagree with it.

Again, I'm not trying to bust your chops about it, I've spent years creating UI's for high end web sites, which I believe completely, is far harder than for self contained programs due to the constant ability of the end user to scale their screen to various sizes in numerous resolutions. So i know that it can be done, the unbreakable user interface is possible, you just have to put the time and effort into it. Hence my previous posts.
Again, we chose to put our effort into different areas. I guess time will tell whether this was a smart decision or not.

[Joe]

who cares if it doesnt work on computers that don't have the correct resolution? there are no refunds, and its their own fault for not checking.

[Arles]

who cares if it doesnt work on computers that don't have the correct resolution? there are no refunds, and its their own fault for not checking.
People can always download the free demo and try it (which has the same resolution requirements as the full game).

[Joe]

of course they can. and they are dumb for not doing so.

[DaddyTorgo]

how the hell does this thread have 27 posts. aren't we frikkin over this whole thing already?

[MizzouRah]

how the hell does this thread have 27 posts. aren't we frikkin over this whole thing already?
turn your resolution down when posting, please. :p