League Idea

[WVUFAN]

Based on a very recent discussion for the FOFC League (go Cinci!), someone made the excellent suggestion to make the league completely equal by making the Prestige rating for each team the same. This way if someone's favorite team is South Florida, they are on equal footing with someone who takes USC.

The league commissioner, for reasons of realism (which is understandable), has vetoed this. I was wondering if there is interest in a league that incorporates this idea -- by doing this, the talent of the coach is primary, rather than the team that was picked.

Opinions?

[duckman]

Only if the league is completely fictional.

[st.cronin]

Based on a very recent discussion for the FOFC League (go Cinci!), someone made the excellent suggestion to make the league completely equal by making the Prestige rating for each team the same. This way if someone's favorite team is South Florida, they are on equal footing with someone who takes USC.

The league commissioner, for reasons of realism (which is understandable), has vetoed this. I was wondering if there is interest in a league that incorporates this idea -- by doing this, the talent of the coach is primary, rather than the team that was picked.

Opinions?


With fictional teams or a lower division set up it could be a lot of fun.

[Joe]

deanhouston.org league should do this

[st.cronin]

Actually, a fictional league could be fun ... my school (St. Johns College) could field a pretend football team!

[sovereignstar]

deanhouston.org league should do this

I'll commish.

Edit: As long as I get an admin account on the board.

[Joe]

Only if the league is completely fictional.

uhh.. that would negate the taking over your favorite team portion

[Joe]

I'll commish.

Edit: As long as I get an admin account on the board.


:) that seemed to work out well before

[duckman]

uhh.. that would negate the taking over your favorite team portion
It would be more interesting if there was no established programs. To me, the prestige is attached to the name of the school, so that kind of set up would not be something I would be interested in. Just a personal preference.

[Joe]

The league commissioner, for reasons of realism (which is understandable), has vetoed this.


Did he state that it was because of realism? I didn't catch that part. If realism is a big issue for people, the league shouldn't have a playoff system IMO.

[Anthony]

i'll be in this league.

St. John's University ALL UP IN THIS MUTHAFUCKA.

[WVUFAN]

Did he state that it was because of realism? I didn't catch that part. If realism is a big issue for people, the league shouldn't have a playoff system IMO.Well, I assume that must have been the reason, because I can't think of another reason why he would do it.

Again, my suggestion would be for a league with already established teams (aka Notre Dame is still Notre Dame) but with equal footing with all the other teams for the purpose of having a truly competitive league. That way if your favorite team is Duke, you're tested on your skills as a coach, and not punished because you like a "bad team".

All I'm thinking of is a league that EVERYONE starts equally. I think it would be more fun and challenging this way.

EDIT: The more I think of it, the more I would be in favor of letting the coach decide every aspect of the team. IE: I pick Marshall as my team. As long as no one else wants Marshall, I should be able to rename it to John Smith University. If someone ELSE wants to use Marshall AS Marshall, then I simply pick a different team.

[Anthony]

I'll commish.

Edit: As long as I get an admin account on the board.

i'd vote for you being commish, but you'd probably quit the league halfway through the first season like you did last time.

[KWhit]

I don't think I'd have a good time in a league where potentially Baylor, Tulane, Duke, and Vanderbilt were the powerhouses.

[sovereignstar]

i'd vote for you being commish, but you'd probably agree to shutdown the league halfway through the first season after conferring with myself and a number of other owners like you did last time.

Good point.

[Anthony]

Well, I assume that must have been the reason, because I can't think of another reason why he would do it.

Again, my suggestion would be for a league with already established teams (aka Notre Dame is still Notre Dame) but with equal footing with all the other teams for the purpose of having a truly competitive league. That way if your favorite team is Duke, you're tested on your skills as a coach, and not punished because you like a "bad team".

All I'm thinking of is a league that EVERYONE starts equally. I think it would be more fun and challenging this way.

EDIT: The more I think of it, the more I would be in favor of letting the coach decide every aspect of the team. IE: I pick Marshall as my team. As long as no one else wants Marshall, I should be able to rename it to John Smith University. If someone ELSE wants to use Marshall AS Marshall, then I simply pick a different team.

what are your thoughts on having St. John's University in the league? perhaps we can take out some other shitty team to open up a spot.

[Desmond]

Is Villanova available?

[Desmond]

He half asses ownership as well. I've heard.

[Anthony]

Good point.

don't get all pissy cuz you aren't a good commish. it's ok, we're all suited to different things in life. :)

[KWhit]

don't get all pissy cuz you aren't a good commish. it's ok, we're all suited to different things in life. :)
True. You're tops at quitting leagues.

[WVUFAN]

what are your thoughts on having St. John's University in the league? perhaps we can take out some other shitty team to open up a spot.
Well, personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it would be up to whomever the league players would vote in as commissioner. My idea would be for the players to decide all aspects of the game, and have the commisioner enforce the player-created rules, and run the logistical aspect of the league, and that's it. I've never been a fan of the commish being the rule-maker -- there wouldn't be a league without the players, so it stands to reason the players make the rules of the league. Again, this is all just my opinion.

So, yeah, if I had a players vote in the league, pick a team that no one else wants to run as that team, and play as Villanova or St. John. Why not? It's YOUR team, after all.

[Kodos]

True. You're tops at quitting leagues.

And blaming the league for his own inadequacies. :)

[Desmond]

I heard he poisened Mother Theresa.

[Anthony]

True. You're tops at quitting leagues.

i save the drama for my mama.

[Anthony]

I heard he poisened Mother Theresa.

and i nailed your mom.


twice.

[Desmond]

Lower your gun, brother.

[Anthony]

ok, on a scale of 1-10 you register about a 2 on my elite-o-meter, so i'm done giving you my attention.

this league could be dynomite - bowl games, no playoffs. everyone starts out the same. St. John's University up in this piece. unfortunately i think SJU is D-III when it comes to football. damn shitty team.

worst comes to worst i think Senator was very interested in D-II, perhaps he'd like to get up on this. hopefully he sees this thread.

[cthomer5000]

I don't think I'd have a good time in a league where potentially Baylor, Tulane, Duke, and Vanderbilt were the powerhouses.
This seems a little silly. They're just names.

[vex]

This seems a little silly. They're just names.
But in a league so large, it's good to have familiarity with the teams. Nice to see, oh, hey, Michigan and Florida are doing good, Arizona is on the rise. I dunno, just me.

[WrongWay]

Why not just start the Anti-FOFC BBCF League?

Whatever option they have turned on you turn off, and whatever options they have turned off you turn on. :)

[vex]

Why not just start the Anti-FOFC BBCF League?

Whatever option they have turned on you turn off, and whatever options they have turned off you turn on. :)
:D

[Anthony]

the funny thing is that Anti FOFC BBCF league or not, sovereignstar would still have non-intimidating genitalia regardless.

[KWhit]

This seems a little silly. They're just names.
Nuh uh. You're silly, Mr. Silly-Man.

One of the things that made me absolutely bat-shit crazy about EA's NCAA football was that in every career I ever played, TCU, Marshall, Wyoming, and Fresno State would play in national championship games every couple of years and became the dominant teams in the nation.

I'm not saying that in an MP league these teams shouldn't be able to compete, but if we're using the real schools, we should start with the current prestige and then let the cream rise to the top.

That's why I always prefer totally fictional leagues so there is no inherant bias there, but that seems kind of tough to coordinate in a 100+ team league.

[st.cronin]

Nuh uh. You're silly, Mr. Silly-Man.

One of the things that made me absolutely bat-shit crazy about EA's NCAA football was that in every career I ever played, TCU, Marshall, Wyoming, and Fresno State would play in national championship games every couple of years and became the dominant teams in the nation.

I'm not saying that in an MP league these teams shouldn't be able to compete, but if we're using the real schools, we should start with the current prestige and then let the cream rise to the top.

That's why I always prefer totally fictional leagues so there is no inherant bias there, but that seems kind of tough to coordinate in a 100+ team league.

Not really. Just wait for a D1AA mod, use that, and modify to suit the league :D

[WVUFAN]

Tell me what you guys think of this as the concept for a league:


Each player who wishes to play in a league either lists an existing team they wish to play as or if they want to play with a created team (someone either from a lower division, or something reasonable. No Mother F'er University)
From there, depending on the interest, we put the human-run teams into one (or more, if there's interest) in the same conference.
Each and every team begins with the same Prestige Level. How your team does is ENTIRELY dependant on the skill of the person playing.
All rules and regulations are created by and voted for the player group at large. The Commissioner of the league is responsible for enforcing the rules. This stops the idea of commissioners with power trips.
Hell, I'd be in favor of switching the commissioner every year to avoid burnout and giving multiple people the chance to run things.

Opinions?

[Anthony]

i like having a set commissioner, rather than changing it up. otherwise, this sounds like something i would interested in. St. John's University is my team.

[Blade6119]

Tell me what you guys think of this as the concept for a league:


Each player who wishes to play in a league either lists an existing team they wish to play as or if they want to play with a created team (someone either from a lower division, or something reasonable. No Mother F'er University)
From there, depending on the interest, we put the human-run teams into one (or more, if there's interest) in the same conference.
Each and every team begins with the same Prestige Level. How your team does is ENTIRELY dependant on the skill of the person playing.
All rules and regulations are created by and voted for the player group at large. The Commissioner of the league is responsible for enforcing the rules. This stops the idea of commissioners with power trips.
Hell, I'd be in favor of switching the commissioner every year to avoid burnout and giving multiple people the chance to run things.

Opinions?

Id agree with all of this, except for one minor question. How do you handle locations. A team in texas will get far more recruits then one in North Dakota regardless of prestige.

[st.cronin]

Tell me what you guys think of this as the concept for a league:


Each player who wishes to play in a league either lists an existing team they wish to play as or if they want to play with a created team (someone either from a lower division, or something reasonable. No Mother F'er University)
From there, depending on the interest, we put the human-run teams into one (or more, if there's interest) in the same conference.
Each and every team begins with the same Prestige Level. How your team does is ENTIRELY dependant on the skill of the person playing.
All rules and regulations are created by and voted for the player group at large. The Commissioner of the league is responsible for enforcing the rules. This stops the idea of commissioners with power trips.
Hell, I'd be in favor of switching the commissioner every year to avoid burnout and giving multiple people the chance to run things.

Opinions?


I would prefer no D1A teams.

[Anthony]

Id agree with all of this, except for one minor question. How do you handle locations. A team in texas will get far more recruits then one in North Dakota regardless of prestige.

hey, i don't think there's anything you can do about that. make your team a place someone wants to play. i'm not in favor of making every single item equal for all, especially like something you mentioned. geography plays a big role in sports, moreso in college sports.

[Passacaglia]

Putting everyone in conferences would be kinda crazy. That said, I might be interested in playing as the University of Illinois at Chicago.

[Havok]

I'll take my Terps :)

as long as everyone has a relatively fair shot at winning/recruting, i'll be happy.

[Airhog]

I think the best way to assign teams is with a draft. Have everyone signup, then randomize the list of names. That way everyone gets a fair shake at the team they want.

[Passacaglia]

Why don't we just instead collect the teams, then assign the conferences geographically? A draft would result in teams nowhere near each other in the same conference.

[WVUFAN]

I think the best way to assign teams is with a draft. Have everyone signup, then randomize the list of names. That way everyone gets a fair shake at the team they want.
Sounds fair to me. Anyone else? And who will commish this (I can provide webspace, but have no experience in being a commish)

[Airhog]

Even though I am unable to play right now, I would suggest that whoever is commish, does not have a team. The commish in BBCF has the ability to mess with everyone's team, and I think that it would be easy to abuse that power.

[Bonegavel]

Why people have a problem with using real schools and equal prestige is beyond me.

Think of it as a retcon. Think of it as starting the NCAA over.

What about the real life drops in prestige like Penn State and ND over the last decade or so. Miami wasn't always the powerhouse they are, etc.

Am I correct that in the game with unequal prestige, if I would do really well I could potentially make Marshall and powerhouse?

Like I said, I don't understand why people have an issue with this.

BTW, it was my suggestion in that thread to make them all equal :D

[Bonegavel]

It would be more interesting if there was no established programs. To me, the prestige is attached to the name of the school, so that kind of set up would not be something I would be interested in. Just a personal preference.And in the fictional universe of the League, the name = prestige will simply shift.

Don't forget, we are starting in 2005. Do you know how Miami will be in 20 years?

[Ben E Lou]

I'd play with fictional schools and an equal start.

[Havok]

I think the best way to assign teams is with a draft. Have everyone signup, then randomize the list of names. That way everyone gets a fair shake at the team they want.


im down with that

[wade moore]

Hrmmm...

This goes along with the thoughts i've had about doing a I-AA league...

[Joe]

Sounds fair to me. Anyone else? And who will commish this (I can provide webspace, but have no experience in being a commish)

I would like to volunteer to be a commish for this possible league. If someone could help with logos for a webpage (HA?), it would be all good. I am only using 1/10th of my allotted bandwidth for my FOF league and have plenty of disk space, so it could work on my end.

[WVUFAN]

I would like to volunteer to be a commish for this possible league. If someone could help with logos for a webpage (HA?), it would be all good. I am only using 1/10th of my allotted bandwidth for my FOF league and have plenty of disk space, so it could work on my end.
I'm cool with that.

[Passacaglia]

So here's a question...what should the 'level' prestige be? I say it should be 0, and we all try to work our way up to powerhouses, rather than 50, and we work our way up or down. Some tests might help us decide which is better, though. If no one else does, I'll work on it when I ever have time to get the damn game!

[Anthony]

If someone could help with logos for a webpage (HA?), it would be all good.

oh, and you know this.

[Anthony]

So here's a question...what should the 'level' prestige be? I say it should be 0, and we all try to work our way up to powerhouses, rather than 50, and we work our way up or down. Some tests might help us decide which is better, though. If no one else does, I'll work on it when I ever have time to get the damn game!

my opinion is if you start at 0, there's nowhere to go but up, but if you start at 50 prestige, then there's that clear indicator of what teams are on the up and up and which teams are shitting themselves.

[Ben E Lou]

I just talked to Arlie. Zero definitely will not work. Only 1 and 2 star recruits would ever, ever commit. Higher-level recruits have a minimum prestige that they'll accept. I asked what he'd recommend, and he said that we would "probably" be ok setting everyone at 55, but he needed to check and make sure.

[Passacaglia]

Only 1 and 2 star recruits would ever, ever commit.

Depending on the direction we want the league to take, that may not be a problem.

[Ben E Lou]

Depending on the direction we want the league to take, that may not be a problem.I would think it would. I don't think there are enough 1-2 star recruits to fill up every team. We'd have teams with dozens of walk-ons, I think. Let me go check the game for a sec...

[Ben E Lou]

There would be enough to fill up every team, but just barely. I'd almost guarantee that there'd be major issues at some positions, though, with not enough players.

[Ben E Lou]

OK...more from Arlie on the 0-prestige idea, cut and pasted with his permission:

Arlie says:
I agree 100%
Ben Lewis says:

Ben Lewis says:
i knew you were a bright kid
Ben Lewis says:
hey...remind me what the max prestige gain in a season is...we're talking about playing an everyone-at-the-same-prestige league
Ben Lewis says:
is it liek 5?
Arlie says:
probably 3-4
Ben Lewis says:
even if you were at zero?
Arlie says:
Oh
Ben Lewis says:
(which has been brought up, believe it or not)
Arlie says:
at zero?
Arlie says:
that would not work
Arlie says:
recruits have a minimum prestige they will accept
Ben Lewis says:
ah
Arlie says:
so, only the 1 and 2 starts would commit
Ben Lewis says:
so, what's the minimum for a 5-star
Arlie says:
and, on the flip side, if you did everyone at 100, no lower stars or transfers would ever work
Ben Lewis says:
so, what would you recommend?
Arlie says:
You would probably be OK setting everyone at 55
Arlie says:
but I will check and make sure
Arlie says:
55-60 would work
Arlie says:
all recruits would consider you
Arlie says:
and everyone would start out with a chance at a solid roster
Ben Lewis says:
'k
Ben Lewis says:
thanks!
Ben Lewis says:
ah...one more question
Ben Lewis says:
IF we decided to do a league where we set it to zero and only 1-2 star guys got signed, two questions:
Ben Lewis says:
1. Would high-caliber guys show up due to being on watch lists?
Ben Lewis says:
2. How much prestige increase would there be for a 0-prestige team that went 12-0 and won the national title?
Arlie says:
1. perhaps - although it would be more on state and region
Arlie says:
2. 7-8, maybe 10 depending on other factors (recruiting class)
Arlie says:
bear in mind
Arlie says:
what you guys are going with that would be akin to buying a Porshe to tow a U-Haul
Arlie says:
the game isn't designed to be played in that manner
Arlie says:

Ben Lewis says:
oh..completely understood
Ben Lewis says:
i'm NOT in favor of 0-prestige, i think it is stupid
Arlie says:
a "safe" way would be 50-55
Ben Lewis says:
but i just want to give them accurate info to see what we might be getting into
Arlie says:
you could get errors too
Arlie says:
I really don't know
Arlie says:
you would be pretty safe at 50
Ben Lewis says:
so, 4-5 star recruits would just pick a school in week 17 then, not based on much?
Ben Lewis says:
(oh, and do you mind me cutting and pasting this conversation?)
Arlie says:
but with a bunch of 0 prestige schools, some lists would be empty
Arlie says:
nah, that's fine
Ben Lewis says:
ok..thanks
Arlie says:
to your question, yes, the best recruits would end up being reassigned on a combo of state, region and need
Arlie says:
not all that fun if you ask me
Arlie says:

[Passacaglia]

That's interesting reading. What's the lowest prestige a team has in the game? Comments like that make me worried that prestige is handled like TCY, where even the worst schools had prestige in the 50s. I still don't think the idea is "stupid" it has its merits -- like I said, "depending on the direction we want the league to take" but I'm fine either way.

[MalcPow]

I would be in for a "fictional" league. Kind of along the lines of HA's feelings, I could then pretend Georgetown has a football program.

[Ben E Lou]

What's the lowest prestige a team has in the game?Initial prestige ranges from 25-80

[Bonegavel]

Count me in on a fictional even prestige league (50-55 per Arlie's info).

[Ben E Lou]

I still don't think the idea is "stupid" it has its merits -- like I said, "depending on the direction we want the league to take" but I'm fine either way.Ah, and that was a bit harsh, and not quite indicative of what I really meant. I forgot that I said that privately to Arlie, too. Oops. Given the conversations I'd had previously with Arlie about how some things worked, I had a strong suspicion that the it wouldn't handle such a large shift from the intended method of play. Yes, the game can be customized to point, but we must remember that it would be unrealistic to expect Arlie to program the AI in a first-generation game to respond well to every single idea that someone could come up with.

[Passacaglia]

Ah, and that was a bit harsh, and not quite indicative of what I really meant. I forgot that I said that privately to Arlie, too. Oops. Given the conversations I'd had previously with Arlie about how some things worked, I had a strong suspicion that the it wouldn't handle such a large shift from the intended method of play. Yes, the game can be customized to point, but we must remember that it would be unrealistic to expect Arlie to program the AI in a first-generation game to respond well to every single idea that someone could come up with.

Fair enough. I'll just have to do it in a single-player game, and screw all y'all!

[Bonegavel]

Ah, and that was a bit harsh, and not quite indicative of what I really meant. I forgot that I said that privately to Arlie, too. Oops. Given the conversations I'd had previously with Arlie about how some things worked, I had a strong suspicion that the it wouldn't handle such a large shift from the intended method of play. Yes, the game can be customized to point, but we must remember that it would be unrealistic to expect Arlie to program the AI in a first-generation game to respond well to every single idea that someone could come up with.
Ben has no thought filters.

Actually, the idea isn't stupid at all. Passacaglia just didn't know it worked that way and to be honest, it makes more sense that the players should adapt to the prestige levels available which would allow a lot more diversity in game options.

Starting prestige at 0 makes sense when you think about the start of an Association.

Now, get back to your dynasty! I'm hooked.

[Ben E Lou]

I'm hooked.And I'm 1 and dadgum 23. :(

[Ben E Lou]

In all seriousness, I'm starting to think I should have started with a real-life league or an even-Prestige one for my *first* real career. I'm considering shelving that career for a while and getting a little better at the game before I continue it. We'll see. I don't really have any time to play again until late tonight or tomorrow morning, so I'll chew on it some. I've finished the next recruiting stage, and signed no one with more than one star. I set Columbus to have lower Prestige than anyone else in the universe (I think by 5-10 points). Maybe I'm in over my head for now.

[st.cronin]

And I'm 1 and dadgum 23. :(

I want to play in a league with people like you.

[Daimyo]

Assuming there is a reliable commish I think a fictional league with equal starts might actually get me to buy the game.

[Daimyo]

Out there idea: Is it possible to have a promotion/relegation system? Might be cool for a fictional league if possible.

[Kodos]

I think this should be called "A League of Their Own". :)

[VPI97]

Out there idea: Is it possible to have a promotion/relegation system? Might be cool for a fictional league if possible.From looking at the game's database, that should be fairly easy to implement. For promotion/relegation, it would work the same as conference realignment, which (theoretically) is doable by editing the database at a particular point.

[Anthony]

From looking at the game's database, that should be fairly easy to implement. For promotion/relegation, it would work the same as conference realignment, which (theoretically) is doable by editing the database at a particular point.

rather intriguing. i embrace thinking outside of the box and using a game in ways a developer might not have even imagined.

[KWhit]

Out there idea: Is it possible to have a promotion/relegation system? Might be cool for a fictional league if possible.
Hmmm... That could be fun.

Have different conferences that represent tiers of excellence. After the first season, all conference winners are promoted into the A1 conference. 2nd places get in the A2 conference, etc. All teams in the top conference get xx points added to their prestige - A2 conference teams get a smaller bump in their prestige. Then at the end of each subsequent season, the worst team(s) are relegated, and the conference winner is promoted.

That sounds like fun to me!

[Kodos]

rather intriguing. i embrace thinking outside of the box and using a game in ways a developer might not have even imagined.

Kindof like the way you've used a sandwich in a way that it's maker didn't intend?

http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/avatars/9892041404293325b06e21.jpg

[Anthony]

damn, i'm sexy.

[Ben E Lou]

rather intriguing. i embrace thinking outside of the box and using a game in ways a developer might not have even imagined.Of course, the problem with that was stated by Arlie: "You could get errors too. I really don't know." If the developer didn't imagine it being played that way, then the odds are that it hasn't been tested in that way, which means there's at least a chance that you could crash the game down the road in trying to do so. I'd want to know that anything outside of the box had been well-tested by the commish before investing the time into the beginning of the league, then finding out that after the first season we couldn't continue or something like that.

[Anthony]

Of course, the problem with that was stated by Arlie: "You could get errors too. I really don't know." If the developer didn't imagine it being played that way, then the odds are that it hasn't been tested in that way, which means there's at least a chance that you could crash the game down the road in trying to do so. I'd want to know that anything outside of the box had been well-tested by the commish before investing the time into the beginning of the league, then finding out that after the first season we couldn't continue or something like that.

oh, of course. as someone mentioned earlier, this *is* a first generation game, afterall. even if it's not doable at this point in time, it's nice to know that the game has some wiggle room and can bend a little bit, and isn't as black and white as some other games are.

[VPI97]

Of course, the problem with that was stated by Arlie: "You could get errors too. I really don't know." If the developer didn't imagine it being played that way, then the odds are that it hasn't been tested in that way, which means there's at least a chance that you could crash the game down the road in trying to do so. I'd want to know that anything outside of the box had been well-tested by the commish before investing the time into the beginning of the league, then finding out that after the first season we couldn't continue or something like that.Yep...which is why I spend my weekend testing out crap like this on BBCF :)

I posted a question to Arlie in the other thread regarding database realignment, but I guess I should have posted it on the GDS site if I wanted a quick answer...

[Joe]

ok, so are we leaning towards completely fictional, 1-AA schools, a mix, or what? I'd favor fictional.

I will get a message board up on my site tonight for further discussion

[Joe]

I've put up a message board for discussion. Register if you wish and float some ideas or create polls or whatever.

[Joe]

http://www.joenitedstatesofamerica.com/phpbb

[Daimyo]

I think fictional is good, but if someone wants to use a real college name they should be allowed.

[Joe]

I spent my first 2 years of college at a Division 2 school, I think it would be cool to see some of those teams in a league. Go NSIC!

[JeeberD]

*Tries to resist claiming Sam Houston State since he's in too many damn leagues as it is*

[Joe]

give in to temptation jeebs