Question About FOFC Moderation

[Subby]

I was catching up on that EULA thread and it got me thinking...

Are the current moderators we have for FOFC installed until they choose to step down?

This is not a critique of either Ryan or SkyDog. I am generally happy with their efforts and think they have done a solid job. I am not trying to stage a coup or hold a referendum on their fitness for the position.

But...for all intents and purposes, this is an ownerless board, correct? I realize where it is housed and whose ads run at the top of the board, but I have never ever seen gamespy (or whatever they are called) step in to moderate a high-level dispute. As that is the case, it makes the moderators of FOFC the de facto owners, since they have power to do most of what they want with few checks or curbs. I realize this could be taken to a ridiculous extreme and the moderators could do something so horrid that half the board leaves and creates a new community, but I think that is a highly unlikely scenario.

That said, should the community be more involved in the who and how of moderation? Should moderators be elected? Have term limits? Should we have more?

Anyway - just a general wondering more than anything. Again, I think Ryan and SkyDog are good peeps.

[Kodos]

REVOLUTION IS HERE, MY BROTHERS!!!

[Anthony]

i don't like RyanS as mod. too quiet, gives off the impression that he's essentially a "yes man". he doesn't contribute to the community as much as a normal moderator does and has virtually no presence. i'd prefer having a stronger 2nd mod, to act as a built-in check for when SkyDog goes off on a rampage. frankly, as nice a guy i'm sure RyanS is, i still don't know what he's ever done to have been eligible to be a mod back when blacky selected Ben and Ryan to take over.

[jeff061]

I had considered Ryan the "owner" and those matters up to him.

No clue where I got that from or if it's even true.

[timmynausea]

I propose we elect a 435 member moderation congress to go along with Skydog and Ryan S. who are the executive moderation branch.

[Anthony]

i'd keep SkyDog as mod, and replace RyanS with like JeeberD, someone who has a great presence here and has contributed more to the community than Ryan.

i also feel there should be a grievance committee - which would be the 2 mods plus a 3rd guy, a place to go to when you've been boxed/banned by one mod and you can state your defense and perhaps get a reduced sentence. as it is now, you get boxed for something questionable, you have no way to stick up for yourself.

[gottimd]

I propose we elect a 435 member moderation congress to go along with Skydog and Ryan S. who are the executive moderation branch.
Checks and Balances? Then who checks the 435 member moderation?

[timmynausea]

Checks and Balances? Then who checks the 435 member moderation?

The SCOTFOFC, of course. (Quiksand)

[Anthony]

I had considered Ryan the "owner" and those matters up to him.

No clue where I got that from or if it's even true.

that's the extreme opposite. SkyDog isn't going anywhere, so change, if any, would have to come from the other mod spot. SkyDog ain't so bad once you get used to him. he's basically like Bill Parcells, in the sense that Parcells has a network of players that are "his guys", and others that are in the doghouse. just gotta make sure you stay out of the doghouse, and your time here will be more pleasurable.

[Huckleberry]

Huckleberry withdraws from consideration for moderator post

12/12/2005

Associated Press


Huckleberry, a moderator on a popular sports forum and administrator on a less-well-known forum, on Monday withdrew his name from consideration for a similar post on FOFC.

"I appreciate the interest and what it means as far as people's perception of me, but I don't feel such a move would be in the best interest of me or my family. I wish FOFC luck in determining their future moderation system."

Gary Barnett, former head coach at Colorado, is also not interested in the post according to sources.

[Greyroofoo]

so how did SkyDog rise to power in the first place?

[timmynausea]

Gary Barnett, former head coach at Colorado, is also not interested in the post according to sources.

That's weird cause I was just going to suggest that we bring in Barnett to liven up some of the recruiting stuff.

[Antmeister]

so how did SkyDog rise to power in the first place?

I could tell you, but I would have to tell you the story by way of song. :D

[gottimd]

I could tell you, but I would have to tell you the story by way of song. :D
A Folk song?

[Antmeister]

A Folk song?

More like SkyDog on a lilypad with his banjo singing about the "FOFC Connection".

[kcchief19]

Despite the pleas to the contrary at times, the moderation here is largely hands-off and is probably the only reason the board has prospered the way it has. I've seen message boards where posting off-topic in the wrong thread is a three-strikes-and-you're-out proposition. There is nothing wrong with hands off.

In many respects, Ryan and Ben are probably a great pair to be as mods. If they disagree they do it behind the scenes, which helps keep any confrontations turning into a board civil war. Ryan is the -- to borrow from 1950s sitcom stereotypes -- the "dad," making sure the lights are on and providing the behind scenes backbone, while Ben is the "mom," reining folks in when they've gone too far and providing the moral compass of the board.

Is it perfect? No. I think the only things I would fault are that Ryan may defer a bit too much to Ben at times on policies since once a year or two (EULAs duly noted) Ben gets a burr up his ass about something and we all go into panic mode.

I have no doubt that if a serious schism on this board occurred, you could spur Gamespy into action. I don't think we've come close to that point yet.

I think there could be case made that the board would be a bit better if more people took an active interest in moderation and if there were some "accountability" to the community, but I dislike term limits and I'm not sure we're ready for democracy here yet. I can probably count on one hand the number of people here I think would make good moderators, but I'd need a couple of pads of legal paper to make a list of potential disastrous moderators -- self included.

But if Subby wants the job I vote for him. It would bring us more porn and poker.

[Subby]

My thoughts were more along the lines of actual regular elections and a slight increase in the total number of moderators. Just a little something to get the community more involved in who is charged with its moderation.

[Subby]

dola

I really don't want this to be a referendum on ryan and skydog - if there were an election today I would vote for both of them. Just interested in removing the dictator-for-life tag :D

[sachmo71]

so how did SkyDog rise to power in the first place?


Blackie quit, or something. it was quite a long time ago.

[Ben E Lou]

so how did SkyDog rise to power in the first place?Jock Ewing was wrong, apparently.

[Passacaglia]

We should all get to vote on the mods, and our vote carries weight according to our post count.

And I like Ryan as a mod, just cuz he's from Scotland, and lurker and I are 99% sure we're going there for our honeymoon!

[sabotai]

My impression was that Ryan S usually handles the technical side of the board while SkyDog is the po-lice of the users.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My thoughts were more along the lines of actual regular elections

That may very well be the worst idea I've ever heard proposed on this forum.

I don't mean one thing personal by that comment so please don't take it that way, that's just my honest-to-goodness take on it. You're describing a popularity contest, not a method for choosing capable moderators.

[Drake]

Ryan is the best moderator in the history of message boards.

[albionmoonlight]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And, to me, this board ain't broke.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... and our vote carries weight according to our post count.

I actually kinda liked that notion at first ... and then I pictured an election being overturned when somebody deleted a thread & caused vote counts to change.

[Schmidty]

You're describing a popularity contest, not a method for choosing capable moderators.

Spot on.

[Passacaglia]

I actually kinda liked that notion at first ... and then I pictured an election being overturned when somebody deleted a thread & caused vote counts to change.

Nice. And the board would have to automatically change the mods instantly! I love computers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Nice. And the board would have to automatically change the mods instantly! I love computers.

And in the meantime, the newly elected moderators (who would receive their new mod passwords via PM) are people who had been perma-banned by the previous mods ... meaning they couldn't check their messages to get the passwords & there's nobody left who can get into the mod controls at all.

[Subby]

I agree that a general election would probably not work...just throwing ideas out there. Right now there is no system in place to allow for the addition or replacement of moderators. Since this is our community, should we have at least some involvement in the process? How would that work?

As I said to Ryan in chat earlier, I think that from time-to-time it is good to elevate select members of a community to moderator level. How do we achieve that, as a community?

[sterlingice]

That may very well be the worst idea I've ever heard proposed on this forum.

I don't mean one thing personal by that comment so please don't take it that way, that's just my honest-to-goodness take on it. You're describing a popularity contest, not a method for choosing capable moderators.(in bad old movie Congressman stereotype voice) I concur with the crazy crackpot from the great state of Georgia ;)

SI

[rkmsuf]

I can't imagine many people that would want to mod the board.

[sterlingice]

Those who want to mod don't know what the job entails (EDIT: or just want it for their own power which does no one else on the board any good)

SI

[Passacaglia]

And in the meantime, the newly elected moderators (who would receive their new mod passwords via PM) are people who had been perma-banned by the previous mods ... meaning they couldn't check their messages to get the passwords & there's nobody left who can get into the mod controls at all.

Oh, but you KNOW they'd be checking every five minutes to see if they've been set free! The triumph of the human spirit always rises to the occasion.

[moriarty]

Anyone who runs under the ticket "allows posting of naked femal pics" will get my vote. That is all.

[Shkspr]

We should all get to vote on the mods, and our vote carries weight according to our post count.


So the new mod is going to be Dolamite?

[JonInMiddleGA]

(in bad old movie Congressman stereotype voice) I concur with the crazy crackpot from the great state of Georgia ;)SI

I actually heard you deliver that line as Edmund O'Brien's Senator Raymond Clark from Seven Days In May.

[Subby]

Those who want to mod don't know what the job entails (EDIT: or just want it for their own power which does no one else on the board any good) That's a bit of a stretch. Maybe they want to moderate the board because they care about the community. Unless you are saying that RyanS and SkyDog mod because they love the insane amount of power that is bestowed upon them from running a message board catering to text-based sports sim enthusiasts.

[rkmsuf]

Ok, so who would want that headache then?

That's a good list to start with.

[Ben E Lou]

RyanS and SkyDog mod because they love the insane amount of power that is bestowed upon them from running a message board catering to text-based sports sim enthusiasts.
BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA





Oops. Did I say that out loud?

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

I'm tired of Jock getting indirectly dissed in this thread.

[sterlingice]

That's a bit of a stretch. Maybe they want to moderate the board because they care about the community. Unless you are saying that RyanS and SkyDog mod because they love the insane amount of power that is bestowed upon them from running a message board catering to text-based sports sim enthusiasts.Touche :)

SI

[Glengoyne]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And, to me, this board ain't broke.
What he said.

[Subby]

Fess up - you get a ridiculous amount of strange now that you moderate FOFC. Or at the very least you have to fight it off with your acoustic guitar.

[Coder]

I have this vague memory of Ryan at some point digging in to the old treasure chest to pony up the cash to purchase the vBulleting software... but that might just have been something completely different..

speaking of old memories.. what's Tony doing nowadays?

[vex]

We need a poll:)

[Ben E Lou]

Just damn.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just damn.

Snort. Chortle.

And to think, I never even noticed your resemblence to a certain Jacob Cohen until now.

[Ben E Lou]

Snort. Chortle.

And to think, I never even noticed your resemblence to a certain Jacob Cohen until now.Well-played, sir. http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_thumbsup.gif (javascript:emoticon(':thumbsup:'))

[Blackadar]

I've been retired from the site but was asked to come back and clarify things. They actually had to unretire my user name. And yes, the retirement was of my choosing. :D

Technically, Skydog owns the site. He also owns the domain name. That's the reason I always wanted people to bookmark the site as fofcentral.com - in case there was a falling out with Sportplanet.

I quote from Sportplanet's own FAQ: "Planet, Vault, and Brain sites are IGN owned and operated. Hosted sites on the other hand are independent, and are managed by the people who created them."

FOFC is not a planet, vault or brain site. It was created by me (with invaluable help from others) when we left the old FOF site (the Sideline). Sportplanet does not provide content, software or other assistance beyond hosting to FOFC. I formerly owned the site and gave it to SkyDog when I no longer wanted to run it. I had originally brought Ryan and Ben on to handle the moderation. Because Ben was more active, it was eventually him that I turned the keys over to.

Of course, from that agreement to turn it over to Ben some years back, I have right of first refusal on it (no fee) if he ever decides to step down. Ownership can't be transferred nor can he choose to shut it down - FOFC reverts back to me at that point.

Does that help?

Now, back to my retirement.

[Blade6119]

I've been retired from the site but was asked to come back and clarify things. They actually had to unretire my user name. And yes, the retirement was of my choosing. :D

Technically, Skydog owns the site. He also owns the domain name. That's the reason I always wanted people to bookmark the site as fofcentral.com - in case there was a falling out with Sportplanet.

I quote from Sportplanet's own FAQ: "Planet, Vault, and Brain sites are IGN owned and operated. Hosted sites on the other hand are independent, and are managed by the people who created them."

FOFC is not a planet, vault or brain site. It was created by me (with invaluable help from others) when we left the old FOF site (the Sideline). Sportplanet does not provide content, software or other assistance beyond hosting to FOFC. I formerly owned the site and gave it to SkyDog when I no longer wanted to run it. I had originally brought Ryan and Ben on to handle the moderation. Because Ben was more active, it was eventually him that I turned the keys over to.

Of course, from that agreement to turn it over to Ben some years back, I have right of first refusal on it (no fee) if he ever decides to step down. Ownership can't be transferred nor can he choose to shut it down - FOFC reverts back to me at that point.

Does that help?

Now, back to my retirement.

Wow, havent heared from you in quite some time...enjoy retirement buddy!! :) :)

[Subby]

Does that help?

Now, back to my retirement.
Awesome. That makes a lot more sense...this is SkyDog's site.

Thank you.

ps. Are you hitting the early-bird buffet a lot in retirement? I hear it's money...

[Subby]

dola

This gives a little more validity to the "SkyDog is a Dictator" threads... ;)

[Blackadar]

ps. Are you hitting the early-bird buffet a lot in retirement? I hear it's money...

Ya, but the steak is a little tough with these dentures. Stick to the chicken

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well-played, sir. http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_thumbsup.gif (javascript:emoticon(':thumbsup:'))

Thanks, I thought it was pretty good considering how much Robitussin I've got in me right now.

Hack. Cough. Sneeze. Hack. Hack.

[albionmoonlight]

If we go to www.fofcentral.com (http://www.fofcentral.com), we get one of those ad sites. Am I missing anything here? Am I spelling it wrong?

[timmynausea]

it's www.frontofficefootballcentral.com

[albionmoonlight]

it's www.frontofficefootballcentral.com (http://www.frontofficefootballcentral.com)
Thanks.

[Ben E Lou]

this is SkyDog's site.To clarify, I asked Blackie to come in and make that statement, because obviously it was forgotten by many. Blackie posted to that effect when we made the switch, but it was on the old UBB site, so there's no link to it available.

Blackie "turned over the keys" to me a few years ago, and I elected to keep RyanS as the primary technical/administrative person, and he performs modding duties from time to time as well.

Since several bits of (unintentional, I'm sure) disinformation have been posted recently, let me clear up a few things...



The vbulletin software cost us around $160. I paid for it, and asked for 12 people to volunteer privately to contribute $10 each, so that I'd have the most cash invested but didn't have to explain to my wife why I was spending $160 on message board software when our old software already worked (sort of). :p If I recall correctly, exactly twelve did so.
Others who have admin rights/powers around here are Simms, GrantDawg (He'd be my choice to have full authority to make decisions if I suddenly died or was disabled from ever coming back, assuming Blackie didn't want to take it back over.), and the GameSpy Guy, lufiaguy. All of those guys *could* make modding moves such as deleting threads, editing posts, and banning people, but we pretty much have an unspoken agreement that no one other than Ryan does any modding stuff unless it is clear that I'm not around and some idiot decides to come in here and masturbate all over the board. (Here I'm thinking of the JHD {sp?} guy and Happy29 in particular...)
Generally when I go out of town and afk for extend periods of town, I let GrantDawg and RyanS know that I'll be gone.
No, GrantDawg and I are not brothers. (Yes, someone asked me that recently. They said that someone from here had told them that.)
I'm with Scott Adams in that I believe that the "Benevolent Dictator" form of government is the best way to go, so I call the shots.
I get HEAVY input from RyanS on any technical-related decisions that need to be made (such as whether to move the board when we had the big downtime last year...we were in constant communication then), and in the vast majority of cases, I go with his opinion. (Actually, I'm not sure that I've ever fully gone against his opinion.) We discuss these matters in private 100% of the time.
As kcchief pointed out, apart from my occasional quirks, I choose to take a pretty hands-off approach most of the time. I feel like I've achieved the proper balance here, because for every "SkyDog is a power-hungry dictator" public grandstanding post I read, there are the private "You should have banned so and so a long time ago" posts.
Hope that helps.

--Ben

[KWhit]

No, GrantDawg and I are not brothers. (Yes, someone asked me that recently. They said that someone from here had told them that.)
Of course not! You don't even spell your last names the same.

Duh.

[jeff061]

There are the private "You should have banned so and so a long time ago" posts.

These and the "report post" minions puzzle me.

[sterlingice]

Of course not! You don't even spell your last names the same.

Duh.Smithers: His waggle is no match for yours, sir. I've never seen you lose a game. Except for that one in '74 when you let Richard Nixon win. That was very kind of you, sir.
Burns: Oh, he just looked so forlorn, Smithers, with his {imitating Nixon} "Oh, I can't go to prison, Monty. They'll eat me alive!" {Smithers laughs} I wonder if this Homer Nixon is any relation?
Smithers: Unlikely, sir. They spell and pronounce their names differently.
Burns: Bah. Schedule a game and I'll ask him myself.

SI

[Anthony]

..some idiot decides to come in here and masturbate all over the board.

how could i do that? i'd accept a boxing for that, it'd be well worth it.

[Dutch]

I could tell you, but I would have to tell you the story by way of song. :D

Do we have to beg for this potential greatness?

[Subby]

Hope that helps. I have an unhealthy need to know stuff, so it does, thanks.

As I have said in several other posts, I think you and Ryan do a good job.

Thank you.

[flere-imsaho]

So was it Blackadar who bestowed most of the custom titles?

[Anthony]

I have an unhealthy need to know stuff

do you wanna know what kind of underwear i'm wearing?

[Subby]

"I have an unhealthy need to know stuff" and "I have a need to know unhealthy stuff" are two completely different things... :D

[Chubby]

You're all on thin ice.

[Ben E Lou]

So was it Blackadar who bestowed most of the custom titles?No. Custom titles weren't an option until we switched to vbulletin. That was done on my watch.

I don't remember all of the timeframes, and some of the older posts from the ubb site did not transfer over when we switched software, so some of that stuff is just lost forever. Based on this thread (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=4475), it would appear that we switched to vbulletin on January 24th, 2003. I know I had been in charge for at least a few months or so at that point (if not longer). I don't remember how long I was at the helm before I made the decision to switch to vbulletin, though.

[JeeberD]

i'd keep SkyDog as mod, and replace RyanS with like JeeberD

Nein, danke...


If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And, to me, this board ain't broke.

Ayuh.

[Buccaneer]

It's funny there are people making historical comparisons (i.e., "worse in the past 50 years") yet some can't even remember 3 years ago. At least Kodos remembers a revolution of some sort.

[Eaglesfan27]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And, to me, this board ain't broke.
I agree 100%.

[TRO]

Just so long as FOBL maintains a piece of the power pie, I'm happy.

:D

[Grammaticus]

Okay, after reading through all of this, I am curious. Of those who think additional or new moderators would have been good, what do you want the moderators to do, that is not currently being done?

I've only been around for about a month, but it does not seem like there is anything to complain about.

[Senator]

Much like you Grammaticus, I will not accept a banning.

[digamma]

Much like you Grammaticus, I will not accept a banning.
I have that picture of SkyDog with the collie, so I think I'm pretty good on the banning front too.

[rkmsuf]

No. Custom titles weren't an option until we switched to vbulletin. That was done on my watch.

I don't remember all of the timeframes, and some of the older posts from the ubb site did not transfer over when we switched software, so some of that stuff is just lost forever. Based on this thread (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=4475), it would appear that we switched to vbulletin on January 24th, 2003. I know I had been in charge for at least a few months or so at that point (if not longer). I don't remember how long I was at the helm before I made the decision to switch to vbulletin, though.

somehow the guy will talk about custom titles here but not in the actual custom title thread.

[Ben E Lou]

somehow the guy will talk about custom titles here but not in the actual custom title thread.Haven't read that thread in a while. I want to do some different stuff with those again the next time I'm bored.

[rkmsuf]

We are holding a sit in over there. The stench is getting palpable as Subby keeps farting.

[Subby]

We are holding a sit in over there. The stench is getting palpable as Subby keeps farting. Custom titles are supergay.

[MIJB#19]

Custom titles are supergay.
Amongst others...

[Young Drachma]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And, to me, this board ain't broke.

Agreed.

[Subby]

Agreed. I totally agree. What jackass brought this up in the first place? http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/mad.gif

[duckman]

I totally agree. What jackass brought this up in the first place? http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/mad.gif
Ummmmm......You would be the jackass that brought this up. ;) :D

[Subby]

PRESCIENT

[Kodos]

PREPUBESCENT

[KWhit]

PRESCIENT

What did I miss?