Windows vs. Apple

[RedKingGold]

I'm contemplating getting a new laptop (hence the original thread about Front Office Games on Apple).

How many of you use Apple computers and would you recommend them??

[wade moore]

A lot of this depends on what you want to do with the machine.

But a major thing to consider is that you can dual boot Mac's to Windows and MacOS. So if you have some reason that you are strongly considering a Mac, you do not have to give up Windows.

[RedKingGold]

A lot of this depends on what you want to do with the machine.

But a major thing to consider is that you can dual boot Mac's to Windows and MacOS. So if you have some reason that you are strongly considering a Mac, you do not have to give up Windows.

What do you mean, "dual-boot"

[Draft Dodger]

A lot of this depends on what you want to do with the machine.

But a major thing to consider is that you can dual boot Mac's to Windows and MacOS. So if you have some reason that you are strongly considering a Mac, you do not have to give up Windows.

um...what?

I think what Wade is saying is that you can put virtual PC on a Mac and have Windows on top of the MacOS. Useful, but not quite the same as a true dual boot.

And I don't know if it's a given that Virtual PC will work on the next generation of Apples (they are moving soon - possibly today to Intel-based chips). It's possible (purely speculation on my part) that Virtual PC will not work on the new architecture at first and, unfortunately, the software is owned by Microsoft now, meaning you might be waiting a while for an update if that happens.

The first sentence is 100% correct, though. It really does depend on what you want to do with the laptop.

[JHandley]

Dual Boot gives you the option to select your operating system on boot. In other words, you can have both a Windows and a MacOS on the same computer. It acts as though there are two different computers in the same box.

[Draft Dodger]

Dual Boot gives you the option to select your operating system on boot. In other words, you can have both a Windows and a MacOS on the same computer. It acts as though there are two different computers in the same box.

right. but unless I'm missing something you can't do this on a Mac at all.
there ARE some hacks floating around out there to install Tiger on a PC - but it is by no means a simple operation, and utilizes pirated versions of OSX for Intel (for the upcoming Intel based Mac machines I mentioned above).

[wade moore]

I reall thought you could do a true dual boot (i've never owned a Mac).

Let me do some investigating.

[wade moore]

From just some very brief digging, looks like I'm an idiot...

So...

I go back to my original point...

It depends on what you want to do with it. In terms of Hardware, Macs give you superior performance overall. They also have some specific areas that they excel in software that utilizes that hardware (desktop publishing, 3D Graphics Design, Vidoe Editing, etc). Many MS Applications can be obtained for MacOS (although Internet Explorer is going away) so you can still have the office suite, etc.

If you're gaming (not text sims, but regular gaming) then you're limited to what games are native to Mac. I've been out of gaming lately, but in the past this often meant a delay from the PC release and sometimes no release at all. If you're just talking about text sims, etc. then you can use Virtual PC as others have mentioned, and my impression from your other thread is that for the most part there is no serious performance degredation.

If you are going to be hardcore gamer, a Mac is probably not for you. If you want to be able to go in and do your own hardware upgrades, etc. then a Mac is probably not for you. If you're cost-conscious, a Mac is probably not for you.

I've considered a Mac for my next purchase, but I just can't afford the increased cost for the performance. If I could though, I probably would.

[rafini]

For work purposes as a graphic designer, I strongly prefer Mac over PC. To me, Adobe Creative Suite programs just seem to run better on Macs (although I know others who think the opposite). Also, I have a lot fewer problems with crashes, viruses and whatnot with my Mac than I did with any of my previous PCs.

[Godzilla Blitz]

um...what?

I think what Wade is saying is that you can put virtual PC on a Mac and have Windows on top of the MacOS. Useful, but not quite the same as a true dual boot.

And I don't know if it's a given that Virtual PC will work on the next generation of Apples (they are moving soon - possibly today to Intel-based chips). It's possible (purely speculation on my part) that Virtual PC will not work on the new architecture at first and, unfortunately, the software is owned by Microsoft now, meaning you might be waiting a while for an update if that happens.

The first sentence is 100% correct, though. It really does depend on what you want to do with the laptop.

I've read that the low-end Macs with the new Intel processors will be shipping in June of this year, but high-end Macs won't be selling with them until mid-2007.

I use both a Mac and a PC in my office. Just bought a new G5 tower last week. Have a PC that I made a couple of years ago.

For me, the platform issue has narrowed in the past five years to the point where there really isn't a hell of a lot of difference between what you can do on a Mac vs. PC. For me, for example, I do all my design/graphic work on a Mac, but I'm sure I could do it on a PC if I really wanted to. Having said that, I think these are the differences between the two platforms:

Mac advantages:
Bundled Software: Comes with some neat, easy-to-use software (ITunes, IMovie, IPhoto, etc.) that establish a powerful, integrated way to handle media (movies, photos, music) on a computer. Great for people with beginner/limited computer experience, and great for organization of family media, etc.

Ease of Use: People generally say that Macs are easy to use. While I think this was true ten years ago, I really don't see much of a difference now, but I suppose Macs are somewhat easier to do things on.

Graphic Design: Even though you can do graphic/design work on a PC, the advertising world leans heavily to the Mac. Unless you're exclusivley dealing with web-based work, having a Mac makes dealing with the design world on a professional level so much easier.

PC advantages:
Performance vs. Price. You get more power for your dollar with a PC. Macs are expensive when you start comparing raw computing power.

Software. Much more software available on the PC side. While this is not true for most of the major applications, you really notice the difference when you start using second-tier applications. For example, I'm working with teachers that want to use Google Earth in classrooms, but right now it's only available on the PC.

Games: Much more software available on the PC side. You can get that Vitual PC thingie to run Windows on a Mac, but (unless this has changed in the past year or so) software runs more slowly. Not a good option for gaming. Mac games are generally released later and are not as well supported. If you play a lot of games, don't even think about getting a Mac.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Dola...

Ah, yes. Rafini makes a great point. Macs are much less likely to get hit with viruses and stuff, and that does save both time and hassle.

[Draft Dodger]

I've read that the low-end Macs with the new Intel processors will be shipping in June of this year, but high-end Macs won't be selling with them until mid-2007.

they just a few minutes ago announced that iMacs would be the first to have intel. shipping immediately, apparently.

also intel Powerbooks...now called *ugh* the MacBook Pro.

EDIT: MacBook Pros are shipping in Feb, according to Jobs. which probably means May. :)

[Hurst2112]

Audio world...Macs, hands down.

Text gaming...not gonna happen. I was delighted that CM and EHM were hybrid cds and I could use them on both Mac and PC. But, for the most part, I wouldn't purchase a mac if you werent in the audio or graphics field. UNLESS you have a kid in school and they use macs.

[Godzilla Blitz]

they just a few minutes ago announced that iMacs would be the first to have intel. shipping immediately, apparently.

also intel Powerbooks...now called *ugh* the MacBook Pro.

EDIT: MacBook Pros are shipping in Feb, according to Jobs. which probably means May. :)

No kidding? Wow. I was just reading about this topic a week ago when I bought my new computer, and the stuff I read said June. I based my G5 purchase on the fact that high-end computers wouldn't be shipping for another year and a half. Hummm.

I might have to do a bit more reading on this. I've yet to open my new computer, and can still return it for full value up to Thursday. If new, high-end Macs are shipping sometime this year, I'll just keep using my old one for the time being.

[Hurst2112]

What is sad is that all the recording studios will eventually have to upgrade their whole pro tools systems to work with the new chips. Jobs must be sleeping with Avid.

[sovereignstar]

AI was delighted that CM and EHM were hybrid cds and I could use them on both Mac and PC.

I bow down to SI for making their games PC/MAC compatible. Makes it that much more likely that I'll purchase their games in the future. I'd say it's safe to say that the next iteration of OOTP will be the same way (at least I hope).

[Draft Dodger]

No kidding? Wow. I was just reading about this topic a week ago when I bought my new computer, and the stuff I read said June. I based my G5 purchase on the fact that high-end computers wouldn't be shipping for another year and a half. Hummm.

I might have to do a bit more reading on this. I've yet to open my new computer, and can still return it for full value up to Thursday. If new, high-end Macs are shipping sometime this year, I'll just keep using my old one for the time being.

for now, it looks like just the iMac and Powerbook. but I believe in the transcript I read, he said that all lines would be transitioned over by the end of the year.

EDIT: although the new Intel stuff is exciting, one area Apple is not always so hot in is new hardware working flawlessly out of the gate (one of the drawbacks at putting so much effort into being revolutionary). If it was my $$$, I think I'd be letting other people be the guineau pigs. There's usually a pretty substantial improvement in stability between 1st and 2nd generation Apple hardware.

just sayin.

[dawgfan]

I'd like to see some benchmarks on software performance for graphics-related products (like Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, AfterEffects, etc.) because I have a strong suspicion this mantra that "Macs are better for graphics" is bullshit. When I went back to art school we had labs with both Macs and PC's and I didn't notice any difference in performance on one vs. the other for the same piece of software.

Given the expense of buying Macs, I'm highly skeptical that if you spent the same amount of money on a PC that you wouldn't get essentially the same peformance on graphics applications.

That didn't use to be the case; in the early days of home computing, Macs held a distinct advantage over the IBM clones. But I think that history is clouding many peoples judgement on how things are today.

I know that the Mac vs. Windows thing is almost religious in the ferventness of those promoting each, but my impression is that many artists have embraced Macs without critically evaluating whether they're really getting the most bang for their buck. They hang their hat on the ongoing perception that graphics apps run better on Macs, they identify with the much better aesthetic design of Apple hardware and the creativity of their ads, they embrace the "rebel" role of not using Windows and they feel a need to justify the high price they pay for the hardware.

If someone can point me to unbiased benchmark comparisons of graphics apps on similarly priced Apple and Windows-based hardware, I'd love to see it. If Macs really still are superior, I'll eat crow, but I strongly doubt there's much difference.

I can tell you that in the 3D industry, almost no one uses Mac hardware. If you're not running Windows, you're on a Unix/Linux box, though those are becoming increasingly rare. When I started in the industry SGI and similar outfits held a much stronger market share, but as Windows-based 3D apps and ports gained a foothold the cost-benefit ratios favored WindowsNT machines over the Unix-flavored ones.

[Hurst2112]

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/intelcoreduo.html

interesting

[sterlingice]

Dola...

Ah, yes. Rafini makes a great point. Macs are much less likely to get hit with viruses and stuff, and that does save both time and hassle.*big knock on wood*

If you're not a moron ("I know! I'll leave my Windows update turned off so I don't get critical updates and then go run to pr0n sites and get movies with .exe names and run them" or "Boy, this weird file that my grandma would never send is telling me I can make money in the stock market!"), it's hard to get a virus nowadays. I'm not saying it can't happen- for instance, if there's a worm going out there ahead of Windows patching stuff or a seemingly legit site got a bad upload, you can still be burned even if you're really careful. However, there's free antivirus and free spyware stuff all over the place that works well and you should be able to avoid most problems.

SI

[Daimyo]

I've thought about getting a Mac mini as a third computer to mess around with, but I can't imagine I'd ever want to use one as my primary box. With a PC I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to do everything that I could do with a Mac. I don't think the same applies in reverse with all the Windows only applications out there.

[Godzilla Blitz]

for now, it looks like just the iMac and Powerbook. but I believe in the transcript I read, he said that all lines would be transitioned over by the end of the year.

EDIT: although the new Intel stuff is exciting, one area Apple is not always so hot in is new hardware working flawlessly out of the gate (one of the drawbacks at putting so much effort into being revolutionary). If it was my $$$, I think I'd be letting other people be the guineau pigs. There's usually a pretty substantial improvement in stability between 1st and 2nd generation Apple hardware.

just sayin.

Yes, that is a good point, which gives me about two or more years before I'd probably want to buy one of the new Intel high-end Macs. I'd go nuts if I have to work on my current Mac for more than one more year. Even that's probably stupid given how much faster I can work on a newer computer.

I've decided to wait and see if there is a price drop in the G5s announced at the Expo which finishes up on Friday. If there is a one, then the one I bought is going back and I'll turn around and buy it back cheaper. If not, I'm going to cut the tape on the thing on Friday.