Someone please tell me I am wrong on this one...

[Ironhead]

I dropped my Honda off overnight at my local dealership because I was hearing a strange rattling sound in the engine. They replaced a rusting part on it, changed my oil and replaced my gas cap (a wonderful New Jersey gas station attendant forgot to put it on last week).

So I just got home and I am looking at the bill and I swear to god it looks like they charged me $90.00 labor to PUT THE FREAKING GAS CAP ON! SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME I AM NUTS! I AM READY TO RAISE HELL!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/Aaenuel/Invoice.jpg

[terpkristin]

Well, you know, it was a LOT of work to walk over to the gas tank and twist the cap, so three clicks were heard....

That's ridiculous. I hope you at least asked THEM about it.

/tk

[Eaglesfan27]

To me it looks like they charged you 90/hr labor. It doesn't look like it was just 90 dollars for the gas cap, but 180 total for the gas cap and to put the pipe shield on. Of course, that still seems high for labor, but my uncles always told me I went into the wrong profession (most of them are auto mechanics.)


Edit: Actually, re-looking at that, it does look like they charged you 90 for the gas cap. I would ask them about it.

[Raiders Army]

Looks like they charged you $180 for labor and $49.53 for parts.

I think that there's something in the small print that if they have to work a minute, they charge you a full hour....that being said, it looks like they charged you for two hours worth of work that maybe took 5 minutes.

[RPI-Fan]

I'm guessing they had two separate guys do the gas cap & pipe shield, and charged you the 1 hr minimum for both (which is ridiculous, of course).

[Raiders Army]

SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME I AM NUTS! I AM READY TO RAISE HELL!
YOU ARE NUTS! GO RAISE HELL!

[Draft Dodger]

heck, I would have done it for $70

[Tasan]

Rule #1 of getting things fixed at a dealership.

NEVER, EVER, have them do something 'Simple'. It will, as shown above, cost you $100 bucks and your pride and dignity when you discover you could have done it for $2.00.

[Lorena]

$90 for labor? Those pieces of shit!! I agree with RA, GIVE THOSE BASTARDS HELL!!

[stevew]

38.50 for a gas cap is rediculous. You can get a locking one for like 20 bucks or less, let alone 38 plus installation.

[Buccaneer]

At what point can we say, "FUCKIN' UNIONS"?

[Mustang]

Was the lube charge for your car or was it for your ass to get you ready for the bill?

[Rizon]

I dropped my Honda off overnight at my local dealership

Ok, that's all the explanation I need. You are in the right.

[MizzouRah]

Damn, we only charge $75.00 when a person calls in a printer that's dead and we have to plug it in. :)

[Clark]

Wow, you got charged $13.95 for the gas cap and $90 labor to screw it on.

[JW]

Gas station attendant?

[Ironhead]

Gas station attendant?

You can't pump your own gas in NJ. If the attendant forgets to put your gas cap on you are usually SOL.

Okay, so it seems pretty apparent that they did screw me. Funny that I went to them because I no longer trusted who I was going to before.

So, aside from talking to the manager of the place and trying to reason (or yell at him, either could work/be fun) is there anything else I could do to get at least some of that $90.00 back? I could always write corporate headquarters and point out how horrible it is that I bought an entire car from them but they charge me $90 to screw on a gas cap. Or am I just screwed for not looking at the invoice before I left?

[Logan]

You can't pump your own gas in NJ. If the attendant forgets to put your gas cap on you are usually SOL.

Okay, so it seems pretty apparent that they did screw me. Funny that I went to them because I no longer trusted who I was going to before.

So, aside from talking to the manager of the place and trying to reason (or yell at him, either could work/be fun) is there anything else I could do to get at least some of that $90.00 back? I could always write corporate headquarters and point out how horrible it is that I bought an entire car from them but they charge me $90 to screw on a gas cap. Or am I just screwed for not looking at the invoice before I left?

Don't really have an answer to your question...but at any time did you sign/check off something that gave them the right to fix "problems" that you haven't already identified? I.e. if you didn't, they would have had to call you and say something like "While looking at your car, we realized your friggin gas cap wasnt on. It will cost $90 in labor to fix. Should we proceed?" At which point you say, "Hell no, I'll be by to pick up my car in an hour." That's how my mechanic operates.

EDIT: Ironhead, my location says NYC, but I'm actually right down the road from you in Marlboro. Did you take your car to the Honda dealer on route 9 in Freehold?

EDIT #2: I can also refer you over to my mechanic at Shell on Rt. 79 in Marlboro for any future work.

[DaddyTorgo]

Don't really have an answer to your question...but at any time did you sign/check off something that gave them the right to fix "problems" that you haven't already identified? I.e. if you didn't, they would have had to call you and say something like "While looking at your car, we realized your friggin gas cap wasnt on. It will cost $90 in labor to fix. Should we proceed?" At which point you say, "Hell no, I'll be by to pick up my car in an hour." That's how my mechanic operates.

i got a shady mechanic good on that one. i explicitly told them NOT to fix ANYTHING without calling me. they went ahead and did like 800 dollars worth of work on my old shitbox, and then called to tell me it was all fixed. at which point i pointed that out to them and had my dad call and threaten legal action if they didn't release my car. ended up only paying $50 so they could save face.

and then ditched the shitbox, because that was the last straw and the point where i was going to sell it

[Ironhead]

Don't really have an answer to your question...but at any time did you sign/check off something that gave them the right to fix "problems" that you haven't already identified? I.e. if you didn't, they would have had to call you and say something like "While looking at your car, we realized your friggin gas cap wasnt on. It will cost $90 in labor to fix. Should we proceed?" At which point you say, "Hell no, I'll be by to pick up my car in an hour." That's how my mechanic operates.

The "service advisor" called me to ask if I wanted the mechanic to replace the pipe shields and gave me a price (including labor) for that. Then she asked me if I wanted a new gas cap for $14 bucks. There was absolutely no mention of labor charges in any way on the gas cap because of course I would have said no.

[Logan]

The "service advisor" called me to ask if I wanted the mechanic to replace the pipe shields and gave me a price (including labor) for that. Then she asked me if I wanted a new gas cap for $14 bucks. There was absolutely no mention of labor charges in any way on the gas cap because of course I would have said no.

I think him including the labor in the price of the pipe shields, and not in the gas cap, would give you all the reason to dispute it.

[DaddyTorgo]

The "service advisor" called me to ask if I wanted the mechanic to replace the pipe shields and gave me a price (including labor) for that. Then she asked me if I wanted a new gas cap for $14 bucks. There was absolutely no mention of labor charges in any way on the gas cap because of course I would have said no.if the price for the pipe shield explicitly included labor and the price for the gas cap didn't then I would imagine you have a case. Talk to the BBB or threaten to call the Attorney General's office if you have to, but that seems like it would be open-and-shut in your favor.

[sterlingice]

I'm curious if that's what it really was for. Maybe there was some other repair that needed to be made to your gas cap?

SI

[Lathum]

Don't really have an answer to your question...but at any time did you sign/check off something that gave them the right to fix "problems" that you haven't already identified? I.e. if you didn't, they would have had to call you and say something like "While looking at your car, we realized your friggin gas cap wasnt on. It will cost $90 in labor to fix. Should we proceed?" At which point you say, "Hell no, I'll be by to pick up my car in an hour." That's how my mechanic operates.

EDIT: Ironhead, my location says NYC, but I'm actually right down the road from you in Marlboro. Did you take your car to the Honda dealer on route 9 in Freehold?

EDIT #2: I can also refer you over to my mechanic at Shell on Rt. 79 in Marlboro for any future work.
weird. I am in freehold.

[Dutch]

You can't pump your own gas in NJ?

[Lathum]

You can't pump your own gas in NJ?
nope. you have to pull up to the pump and wait for some lazy attendant to pump it for you and then wait for them to return at their leisure to collect payment.

[Dutch]

nope. you have to pull up to the pump and wait for some lazy attendant to pump it for you and then wait for them to return at their leisure to collect payment.

Wow. I don't know if I could handle that consistantly.

[Lathum]

Wow. I don't know if I could handle that consistantly.
it sucks. Especially when you move out of the state and then return

[Poli]

nope. you have to pull up to the pump and wait for some lazy attendant to pump it for you and then wait for them to return at their leisure to collect payment.Everyone needs a job I guess.

[JW]

It appears you cannot pump your own gas in New Jersey and Oregon. Obviously I did not know this until learning it in this thread. Did a little research and found Oregon also prohibits self-service gas stations. Fascinating.

[Dutch]

WTF?

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20040715.html

Dear Yahoo!:
Why is it illegal to pump your own gas in New Jersey?
Christina
Massapequa, New York

Dear Christina:
The Garden State is one of two states where it's illegal to fill 'er up yourself. Only gas station owners or employees can pump gas in New Jersey and Oregon -- "the only two states atavistic, sadistic, and masochistic enough to still require thousands of 'professionals' to waste time, money, and inconvenience customers," according to one columnist.
The ban on self-service gas stations is a highly combustible issue and makes for some heated debates. New Jersey passed the law making it illegal to pump your own gas in 1949. At the time, legislators felt it was too dangerous to have untrained people dispensing such a flammable liquid.

That may have been sensible at the time, but pumping gas is much safer today, and some motorists feel the ban is outdated and needs to go. Opponents of the law argue that removing it would lower the cost of gas and make refueling much quicker and more convenient. Proponents of the ban argue that it creates jobs and customers like full service.

Whatever your position on the matter, next time you're in Jersey and need to refuel, take the opportunity to relax in the comfort of your car while the gas station attendant does the dirty work.

[Dutch]

This is really fascinating me. So, when you go on a road trip to New York do you ever find yourself pulling into a gas station and sitting in your car.....and nobody comes to help you, ever?

[Eaglesfan27]

You can't pump your own gas in NJ?
No. I never left the state until I was 17, and it was very hard for me to adjust in Louisiana when I first visited my future wife in her home state. (I never had a car in CA, so I never pumped gas in college.)


Edit: Ok, very hard might be a bit of an overstatement, but I really did wait in the car a while trying to figure out why no attendant was coming to help me.)

[Dutch]

No. I never left the state until I was 17, and it was very hard for me to adjust in Louisiana when I first visited my future wife in her home state. (I never had a car in CA, so I never pumped gas in college.)


Edit: Ok, very hard might be a bit of an overstatement, but I really did wait in the car a while trying to figure out why no attendant was coming to help me.)

I would pay to see that happen to people.

[clintl]

You can't pump your own gas in NJ?

I found that out about Oregon when I started pumping my own gas on the first trip I made up there on my own. If you've got out of state (say, California) plates, and you act like you don't know you can't pump your own gas, it gets their attention faster.

[miked]

Yeah, I grew up in NJ and when I moved to ATL, I barely knew what the heck I was supposed to do. Whenever I go back, I get so irritated waiting on the one slow guy trying to fill up 4 people's tanks at the same time...they just can't seem to do it, maybe they should require a BS in Engineering or something.

There is no reason for the law to stay other than somebody is probably filling somebody else's pockets somewhere. It slows down, you don't "full" service, just a gas fill, and I don't really think it creates huge amounts of jobs other than the one person who would have to be there anyway to supervise the station.

[sterlingice]

Wonder if the gas station attendant has a brother who works at the dealership. Every time he sees a Civic or Accord or whatever from Smoggy State Honda, he leaves the fuel cap off to make some spare bucks for his brother ;)

SI

[Draft Dodger]

I am amazed at the pumping thing. I had no idea.

[Raiders Army]

weird. I am in freehold.
Strange, we were in Freehold last weekend.

[Raiders Army]

FWIW, we discussed the Oregon and New Jersey gas thing last year in April:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=37796&page=1

[Tekneek]

I was always told, if there is any work you can do yourself, you better do it. The simplest task left for the dealership to do can be a very expensive one. It is almost always better to NOT have the dealership do anything they do not have to.

[Ragone]

At what point can we say, "FUCKIN' UNIONS"?


honda dealerships.. and honda in general.. doesn't have unions.. its a industry standard to f people over with labor costs.. sadly

[Bee]

Just a thought on the labor charges. Since you didn't know that your gas cap was missing, they might have found out about it doing diagnostics (on some cars a missing gas cap can cause the service engine light to come on) and the labor charge was for the diagnostic. That's the only valid reason I can think of for the charge. It also looks like it could have been a mistaken entry since both CPM charges were $90 under that section. I'd definitely ask what the deal was.

[Tekneek]

honda dealerships.. and honda in general.. doesn't have unions.. its a industry standard to f people over with labor costs.. sadly

Please don't let the truth get in the way of a good ol' anti-union rant. :)

[rkmsuf]

did they at least give you the pleasure of dropping your drawers and bending over?

[Buccaneer]

It's been almost seven months since a dozen mechanics, lube men and drivers walked off the job at Berkeley Honda and started picketing the Shattuck Avenue auto dealership.

Most of them have found new jobs, but Dave Allen and Gordon Lee, two single men who can survive on strike pay, have stuck it out.

They were there Friday, in the rain, walking a two-man picket line with the giant inflatable rat that sits on the corner. They're convinced that the new owners are trying to break the union, and they aren't going down without a fight.

"We decided to put a hold on what we wanted to do and stick it out -- hurt their business," Lee said.

"That's right," Allen quickly chimed in. "We don't want to let them get away with it."

If they're going to stick it out, they may be walking that line for a long time to come. Talks are at a standstill, and the new owners don't appear willing to budge.

The trouble began soon after Steve Haworth and Tim Beinke took over Jim Doten Honda in June. They gave the place a new name, fired the entire crew and invited everyone to apply for their old jobs.

About half of the mechanics and drivers were rehired. Everyone else was replaced with fresh-faced mechanics just out of technical school. Each was placed under the tutelage of a journeyman mechanic. Veteran mechanic John McGlinchy said he felt he was training his own replacement.

No one but four top-notch mechanics was offered a pension plan, and the owners told everyone they didn't want a union shop, said Don Crisato of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Local 1546.

The changes didn't sit well with the workers, who said they know union busters when they see them, and it took just two weeks before the machinists union and Teamsters Local 78 voted to hit the bricks.

"We've seen this soft-bust union strategy before,'' Crisato said. "We decided to pull the plug right then and there."

For Beinke and Haworth, it all came down to the union's Automotive Industries Pension Plan, which is running a deficit of around $141 million.

The fledgling owners don't want to inherit what they describe as a dying, mismanaged fund destined to pay out more than it takes in. They blame a benefit increase in 2001, retroactive to 1955, with creating the shortfall.

"We didn't create this problem -- we just bought the place in June," Haworth said.

The union's pension fund is about 91 percent funded, Crisato countered, and ranks among the top 10 percent of funds in the country these days. He conceded that union membership is declining, with about 8,000 current members and 9,000 retirees who receive around $7 million in benefits monthly.

For Beinke and Haworth, it represents a significant operating cost and potential liability to the bottom line. To illustrate the financial burden, they offer a copy of a letter sent to former owner Jim Doten from plan managers who said he owed nearly $600,000 to the fund. Under federal law, when an employer withdraws from the fund, it is responsible for paying off its portion of the deficit.

Monthly meetings between management and the union have not broken the logjam, and union workers and Crisato complain they've received little more than lip service despite offering reasonable compromises.

The union offered a plan that would allow the owners to withdraw from the fund anytime during a five-year period, but the new owners refused, he said. The union also offered management a one-year grace period under which it could terminate any employee without cause -- provided the owners allowed Berkeley Honda to be a union shop.

They refused, and Crisato said it seems clear the owners aren't interested in talking.

"We've seen this before in other situations," Crisato said. "You stall and delay, hire a bare majority, put in new work conditions. You meet once a month, two hours at a time, refuse to budge on any major issues, and drag it out until they vote out the union altogether."

The union members said they were offered salaries higher than the current contract requires, a profit-sharing 401(k) plan for the four senior mechanics who were rehired, and a stipend that everyone else can invest as they see fit.

"One hundred percent of what we have proposed has been ratified in other contacts in the Bay Area," Haworth said.

The new owners also have politely declined an offer by Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates to mediate the dispute.

But it's not as if the striking workers have taken all the lumps in this battle. There have been losses on both sides.

Haworth readily admitted that the strike has put a dent on the service side of the business. Before the change of ownership and labor dispute, the garage took in about 60 cars a day, Allen said. Since then, that number has dwindled to about 15, the men said.

"We've been counting," Allen said with a broad smile.

Of course, just about any labor strike in Berkeley is going to be embraced by much of the local populace, and this one is no different.

Passing motorists honk in support of the picketing, neighbors have brought meals, and activists have occasionally joined the picket line. Two former co-workers who found jobs at nearby dealerships stop by almost daily to walk the line in solidarity.

With talks at a standstill and no progress on the horizon, the question of whether a federal mediator will step in may depend upon what happens next. Haworth said the company will soon submit its "last, best" offer in the hope of ending the standoff.

"If they came around on all the other issues, we'd have to take a hard and serious look at whether to include the pension plan or doing something else," Crisato said. "But if they won't hire back the guys they fired, I don't see how we can do it."

Although at this point such a scenario seems quite remote, maybe the new owners could consider it. If it's true that a good man is hard to find, finding a good mechanic can be much harder.


....

[WSUCougar]

I knew a guy who was an auto mechanic and he shed some light on how the pricing went for such things at his dealership. That was quite awhile back, but the way I recall it is this:

Tasks are rated in advance for how much they cost. Assignments for the mechanics, however, are not, so the faster a mechanic does a task the more money he can earn by doing more and more tasks.

The simple stuff is rated lump as an hour of labor, regardless.

[Eaglesfan27]

Yeah, I grew up in NJ and when I moved to ATL, I barely knew what the heck I was supposed to do. Whenever I go back, I get so irritated waiting on the one slow guy trying to fill up 4 people's tanks at the same time...they just can't seem to do it, maybe they should require a BS in Engineering or something.

There is no reason for the law to stay other than somebody is probably filling somebody else's pockets somewhere. It slows down, you don't "full" service, just a gas fill, and I don't really think it creates huge amounts of jobs other than the one person who would have to be there anyway to supervise the station.
Yeah, I've visited several times back in NJ since moving to LA, and it always drives me crazy during my visits to see how slow the attendants are.

[MrBigglesworth]

I live a little ways across the river from NJ, along the PA turnpike. I always see Jersey people either waiting patiently in their cars at gas stations or getting out and looking completely clueless as to how to work the pumps.

[Hurst2112]

dealships are funny.

no my friends, you don't NEED a fricken oil change every 2-3000 miles. also, quit telling me that I need to bring in a new car every 10-15K for their 'suggested maint.'

but wait! i DO get a free car wash each time. BONUS!!!

[Airhog]

I knew a guy who was an auto mechanic and he shed some light on how the pricing went for such things at his dealership. That was quite awhile back, but the way I recall it is this:

Tasks are rated in advance for how much they cost. Assignments for the mechanics, however, are not, so the faster a mechanic does a task the more money he can earn by doing more and more tasks.

The simple stuff is rated lump as an hour of labor, regardless.


That is true, but it is also true for warranty work. The man sets an amount of time it should take to do the job, and the amount of money it will pay to do the job.

[sabotai]

I can't remember the last time I had to wait for a slow attendant at a gas station. They're usually right there when I turn my car off and roll down the window.

Maybe it's the location. I don't live in a heavily populated area and I rarely see more than 2 cars at a gas station at one time. But even yesterday, I pull in and there are 3 other cars there. I actually had to wait for what seemed like 5 seconds before the attendant was there.

They were thinking of removing the law a year or two ago for the purpose of increasing the gas tax.

[Ironhead]

Update:

I spoke to the Service Department tonight concerning the charge. The lady that was there told me that the $90.00 charge was a diagnostic test they ran to find out why my engine light was on. Problem with that is 1) I specifically stated on the drop off from that the engine light was on because the gas cap was missing and 2) they didn't ask me if I wanted them to run said diagnostic test.

They service manager was not there (of course) so I will need to come back this weekend to talk to him. I will be swinging by tomorrow to pick up a copy of my drop off form and I also want to try and get a copy of the diagnostic tests they ran on my car. Basically I want to make sure they even did a diagnostic test and aren't trying to squeeze me for $90.00 when they knew all they had to do was put a gas cap on.

There is a complicating factor working against me. I *was* dropping the car off because I was hearing a ratting noise that sounded like it was coming from the engine. Despite the fact that I stated why the engine light was on could they claim the diagnostic was necessary?

[Raiders Army]

So is your rattling noise gone?

[Rizon]

Update:

I spoke to the Service Department tonight concerning the charge. The lady that was there told me that the $90.00 charge was a diagnostic test they ran to find out why my engine light was on. Problem with that is 1) I specifically stated on the drop off from that the engine light was on because the gas cap was missing and 2) they didn't ask me if I wanted them to run said diagnostic test.

They service manager was not there (of course) so I will need to come back this weekend to talk to him. I will be swinging by tomorrow to pick up a copy of my drop off form and I also want to try and get a copy of the diagnostic tests they ran on my car. Basically I want to make sure they even did a diagnostic test and aren't trying to squeeze me for $90.00 when they knew all they had to do was put a gas cap on.

There is a complicating factor working against me. I *was* dropping the car off because I was hearing a ratting noise that sounded like it was coming from the engine. Despite the fact that I stated why the engine light was on could they claim the diagnostic was necessary?

I just can't see any reputable company charging you $90 for installing a gas cap or running a "diagnostics" check to find out the gas cap is missing.

Is it just one that screws on, or does it have a mount? (you might have mentioned that before but I'm not rereading this thread sorry thanks). I could see charging you for installing one that mounts, but not $90.

[Craptacular]

Another reason to never set foot in NJ.

edit: The full-service gas thing, not the dealership thing ... auto repair is a universal ripoff.