Minivan/SUV Question

[oliegirl]

I know there are some who believe that SUV's and Minivans are the root of all evil...however radii and I are considering trading in his car (we'll get about $13K for it) and purchasing a used SUV or Minivan at CarMax. We've had great experiences there before and are comfortable with the company. However, neither of us have ever owned or driven an SUV or MiniVan so I was hoping for some input or advice from all the knowledgeable people here :) Here is what we are looking at:

Minivans

2005 Kia Sedona LX - 6K miles - $14998

2004 Kia Sedona LX - 20K miles - $13998

2005 Dodge Caravan - 21k miles - $13998

2005 Chrysler Town and Country - 23K miles - $14998

SUV

2003 Buick Rendezvous - 29K miles - $14599


We'll be doing online research tonight but if anyone has personal experinence with any of these or knows people who have had them, please post your experience/knowledge about them.

[Desnudo]

I would avoid both minivans and Buicks. Maybe a pimpin' van?

[st.cronin]

Well, first of all, don't count on getting 13K for his car on a trade-in, unless it's almost brand new. Sell it yourself - it may take longer, but you're going to get a LOT more for it.

[oliegirl]

Well, first of all, don't count on getting 13K for his car on a trade-in, unless it's almost brand new. Sell it yourself - it may take longer, but you're going to get a LOT more for it.

We went to CarMax today and got the appraisal and an offer of $13K...it's valid for 7 days or 300 miles

[GrantDawg]

Don't get a Kia. You have been warned.

[GrantDawg]

BTW, what are you looking for in a vehicle? Safety? Gas-mileage? Performance? Resell? Room? How much room?

[tarcone]

i would be wary of the caravan also
as one who has owned both minvans and SUVs i would probably go with the town and country. it is the same thing as a grand caravan which is the upgrade of the caravan. i wouldnt buy a dodge caravan or grand caravan again. we were always in the shop with it.

[Silver Owl]

My parents had a 2003 Buick Rendezvous, nothing but trouble. There are known issues with the computer module that Buick won't acknowledge.

[Passacaglia]

I've driven a couple caravans -- a 90 and a 94. Both lasted well over 100K miles. I'd be wary of the Kia -- only test rode in one, and it just seemed flimsy.

[oliegirl]

We are looking for something that will be a reliable vehicle, get decent gas mileage (we know the mpg on a van/suv will be less than the car I currently have), a comfortable ride, and something that will last us at least 5 years.

After paying $5 for a month subscription (best $5 I've ever spent) we've ruled out the Kia and narrowed it down to the Town and Country or the Rendezvous...both got good/very good reviews and the age/mileage/price is right. We are going to be at CarMax when it opens at noon and test drive those 2 as well as a Lancer. We aren't sure if we are going to trade for the car, which is cheaper and would give us about $1500 to put toward paying off my car (our last hurdle before concentrating on saving for a house) or go with the SUV/Van and put the $1500 on a low interest credit card so that we don't have to worry about upgrading to an SUV/Van when we have kids in 2 or 3 years.

[flere-imsaho]

In my area (Chicago), I just checked Carmax's listings for the Honda Odyssey, which has been the top-rated minivan for, oh, forever. In your price range you could get an 00 or 01 model from them pretty easily.

In terms of long-term reliability, Toyota's Sienna and Honda's Odyssey have been miles ahead of any other offerings out there.

[GrantDawg]

We are looking for something that will be a reliable vehicle, get decent gas mileage (we know the mpg on a van/suv will be less than the car I currently have), a comfortable ride, and something that will last us at least 5 years.

After paying $5 for a month subscription (best $5 I've ever spent) we've ruled out the Kia and narrowed it down to the Town and Country or the Rendezvous...both got good/very good reviews and the age/mileage/price is right. We are going to be at CarMax when it opens at noon and test drive those 2 as well as a Lancer. We aren't sure if we are going to trade for the car, which is cheaper and would give us about $1500 to put toward paying off my car (our last hurdle before concentrating on saving for a house) or go with the SUV/Van and put the $1500 on a low interest credit card so that we don't have to worry about upgrading to an SUV/Van when we have kids in 2 or 3 years.

You might also think about the adavantage of gas savings for the next 2 or 3 years if you really don't need the Van/SUV size right now. Put that back (depending on how much you drive, that could be $20 or more a week savings) so that you'll have more to put down on that Van later (plus, gas milage for the big vehicles are going to be improving over the next few years).

Can I ask why the Lancer? They are good cars, but I can think of a couple at the same price that would be better.

[GrantDawg]

In my area (Chicago), I just checked Carmax's listings for the Honda Odyssey, which has been the top-rated minivan for, oh, forever. In your price range you could get an 00 or 01 model from them pretty easily.

In terms of long-term reliability, Toyota's Sienna and Honda's Odyssey have been miles ahead of any other offerings out there.

I agree, and it is what I'd recommend if they didn't care about age/mileage. They seem to care, though. Paying the same price for a 4 year older vehicle with 70k to 80k miles is hard for a lot of people. I would never own a Town and Country, but for some that is just a financial necessity.

[oliegirl]

You might also think about the adavantage of gas savings for the next 2 or 3 years if you really don't need the Van/SUV size right now. Put that back (depending on how much you drive, that could be $20 or more a week savings) so that you'll have more to put down on that Van later (plus, gas milage for the big vehicles are going to be improving over the next few years).

Can I ask why the Lancer? They are good cars, but I can think of a couple at the same price that would be better.

I drive a Lancer right now (we're trading in radii's Hybrid)...and we love it, it's been great - no problems at all - totally reliable...CarMax has one for $11K, which after fees would give us about $1500 to put at our debt.

The reason we're thinking of getting the SUV/Van now is so that when we buy a house, we don't have to worry about affording a mortgage and a higher cost car payment...the SUV/Van would be paid off in full by then, as would my Lancer (which radii would drive if we get the SUV/Van) and we would be in a better position to afford a baby too...

[flere-imsaho]

How about a Subaru Forester? You can get an 02/03 in your price range. Not quite as big as a full-size SUV or minivan, but a good deal of space, 20/27 (automatic) or 21/28 (manual) MPG stats, and good safety.

[GrantDawg]

I drive a Lancer right now (we're trading in radii's Hybrid)...and we love it, it's been great - no problems at all - totally reliable...CarMax has one for $11K, which after fees would give us about $1500 to put at our debt.

The reason we're thinking of getting the SUV/Van now is so that when we buy a house, we don't have to worry about affording a mortgage and a higher cost car payment...the SUV/Van would be paid off in full by then, as would my Lancer (which radii would drive if we get the SUV/Van) and we would be in a better position to afford a baby too...

Lancers are good cars, but I'd consider a Corolla or Civic. That way you'll have a vehicle with more value when you trade in a few years. They also get better gas mileage, and have a 5 year/60k power train warranty.

[GrantDawg]

How about a Subaru Forester? You can get an 02/03 in your price range. Not quite as big as a full-size SUV or minivan, but a good deal of space, 20/27 (automatic) or 21/28 (manual) MPG stats, and good safety.


That is a very good reccomendation. Finding one might be the only problem. I just did a search of Carmax, and the only ones available have very high miles.

[oliegirl]

I agree, and it is what I'd recommend if they didn't care about age/mileage. They seem to care, though. Paying the same price for a 4 year older vehicle with 70k to 80k miles is hard for a lot of people. I would never own a Town and Country, but for some that is just a financial necessity.


They do have an 01 Honda Odyssey with 84K for $13,998...and I agree that Honda's are great but I admit that a Town and Country with 2 years and 30K left on the warranty seems like a better deal. I printed out the Honda and I'll show it to radii when he rolls his ass out of bed :)

[GrantDawg]

They do have an 01 Honda Odyssey with 84K for $13,998...and I agree that Honda's are great but I admit that a Town and Country with 2 years and 30K left on the warranty seems like a better deal. I printed out the Honda and I'll show it to radii when he rolls his ass out of bed :)


Here's another little think about...a Toyota Yaris. There are a few out there, and they are starting in the low teens new. I left before getting a chance to drive one, but from everything I have heard they are nice cars. They have a four door sedan and a two door hatch. You can trade your car at Carmax (highly recomended) and purchase the Yaris elsewhere.

[GrantDawg]

They do have an 01 Honda Odyssey with 84K for $13,998...and I agree that Honda's are great but I admit that a Town and Country with 2 years and 30K left on the warranty seems like a better deal. I printed out the Honda and I'll show it to radii when he rolls his ass out of bed :)


Here's a key to look at value. Look at what a 99 Odyssey is still worth versus a 2001 Town and Country with the same miles. Once that T&C gets over 100k, you can't give them away. A Odyssey with 100k still sell for close to 10k even at almost ten years old.

[GrantDawg]

And as a side note: Man, I would love to do this for a living. Not selling cars, but buying cars for people. Let me help you narrow down the type and price for you, work a deal out, and then you just test drive the vehicle and sign the paperwork. Where can I get that job?

[Radii]

And as a side note: Man, I would love to do this for a living. Not selling cars, but buying cars for people. Let me help you narrow down the type and price for you, work a deal out, and then you just test drive the vehicle and sign the paperwork. Where can I get that job?

Carmax? That seems to be what they were doing for us yesterday, and when we bought my wife's Lancer a couple of years ago there.

Can I ask why you'd never drive a Town and Country?

[Dutch]

I'm not sure a mini-van is the right ride for picking up chicks. YMMV.

[Dutch]

:)

[Its Vanilla]

DCX still makes the best minivans out there, so I'd go with either the Caravan or the Town and Country. However, unless they have the 3.8L V6, don't even bother. We have the 3.3L in ours and it can barely move out of its own way merging onto the interstate.

[GrantDawg]

Carmax? That seems to be what they were doing for us yesterday, and when we bought my wife's Lancer a couple of years ago there.

Can I ask why you'd never drive a Town and Country?

1) Carmax is still a car seller. The pressure seems less, but that person you're dealing with still is a "commissioned" based car salesman. He just receives a flat-rate commission, so he is less likely to steer you to a higher priced car than on a straight commission-based dealership. They also make a good bit less money. Carmax is a great way to buy a car because they generally check their cars out throughly and the no-hassle is nice. You don't get the best deal, and they still up sell extras (dealerships including Carmax makes more on the backend, which is financing, insurance and extended warranties, than the front-end), but it is less stressful.

2) Dodge-Chrysler's have a long track record of mechanical problems, specifically the transmission. Plus, they are very quick to devalue, which doesn't just affect you if you trade. If you are hit and total one out, you're going to lose a good bit more money than you would in a vehicle that holds its value better.

[Galaril]

I would recommend the Hyundai Tucson, Great deal with excellent safety standards. Gets good mileage at least the V-6.

[FrogMan]

Here's another little think about...a Toyota Yaris. There are a few out there, and they are starting in the low teens new. I left before getting a chance to drive one, but from everything I have heard they are nice cars. They have a four door sedan and a two door hatch. You can trade your car at Carmax (highly recomended) and purchase the Yaris elsewhere.

I've not read everything else in this thread but I'd like to comment on the Yaris. I've not driven one but everything points me toward it being a car very similar to the Echo, i.e. a smallish car. Unless there's a VERY significant difference between the Yaris they sell around here and the one they sell South of the border, iIt's nothing even close to an SUV or a minivan. A Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe would be much closer in shape, storage, passenger room. Just my opinion...

FM

[GrantDawg]

I've not read everything else in this thread but I'd like to comment on the Yaris. I've not driven one but everything points me toward it being a car very similar to the Echo, i.e. a smallish car. Unless there's a VERY significant difference between the Yaris they sell around here and the one they sell South of the border, iIt's nothing even close to an SUV or a minivan. A Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe would be much closer in shape, storage, passenger room. Just my opinion...

FM


A Lancer is a car, which is also what they are looking at. I was suggesting it as a Lancer alternative, not a Van alternative.

[oliegirl]

Well, we ended up with the Rendezvous...the Lancer we'd been looking at yesterday was sold last night. We looked at a Ford Taurus, but they are known for transmission problems and that coupled with the fact that they aren't making them anymore was enough to make us say no. We looked at the Town and Country, it was much smaller than the Rendezvous, not just in storage, but in head room (radii is 6'4" and Anthony is going to end up at least 6'1) which was a factor. That basically left us with the Rendezvous or keeping the Honda, and after looking at some numbers, mileage, cost of upkeep, etc...we decided to go with the Rendezvous. We are very happy with our decision and the more we talk about it the more we know we did the right thing. Both cars will be paid off within 2 or 3 months and then we can put our efforts toward saving for a house and babies to fill up the new SUV with :)

[CamEdwards]

We've had the Town and Country for a year now, and really like it. I can't remember which version we have. It's not the super duper top of the line, but it's the next one down. We've had no problems in the year we've owned it, although there was just a recall notice for some piece of the air conditioning unit so we have to take it in.

This is actually the third straight Dodge/Chrysler minivan we've owned, and I've been pretty pleased with all of them, mechanically speaking.

[Radii]

A Lancer is a car, which is also what they are looking at. I was suggesting it as a Lancer alternative, not a Van alternative.


Yeah, we had two totally different directions we were looking. One option was to buy a car that cost less than the sale price I was getting on my hybrid. That would have given us a couple thousand dollars to throw at debt.

The other option would be to get a bigger car that would address our expected future needs cheaply, and by the time we go house buying we'll have no car payments and the bigger car that will make us happier when we have little radii/oliegirls running around.

In the end we chose the second option, we added only $2,000 in debt and feel as confidant as possible that we're set as far as vehicles are concerned for the next 5-7 years.

[oliegirl]

We've had the Town and Country for a year now, and really like it. I can't remember which version we have. It's not the super duper top of the line, but it's the next one down. We've had no problems in the year we've owned it, although there was just a recall notice for some piece of the air conditioning unit so we have to take it in.

This is actually the third straight Dodge/Chrysler minivan we've owned, and I've been pretty pleased with all of them, mechanically speaking.


I was hoping the T&C would be bigger, but the model we looked at was supposed to be an LX, which has the "stow and go" seats, but it was marked incorrectly. The middle seat was short, so we would have taken that out and put the full size back seat there and left the back open, but it still didn't have the space that the Rendezvous does. I think if we didn't have kids and were only going to have little ones it would have still been in the running, but with a tall child to consider, it just wasn't going to be enough room.

[Samdari]

The reason we're thinking of getting the SUV/Van now is so that when we buy a house, we don't have to worry about affording a mortgage and a higher cost car payment...the SUV/Van would be paid off in full by then, as would my Lancer (which radii would drive if we get the SUV/Van) and we would be in a better position to afford a baby too...

If you are thinking about fitting a baby, don't buy the Rendezvous. The wife and I just got done buying a vehicle with space for the new baby. I spent a lot of time researching vehicles, and one of my favorites was that. One thing you probably don't realize is how much room in the back seat a rear facing car seat requires. One thing I can assure you, is that the Rendezvous (and in fact, many vehicles) does not have enough room for one, without pushing the front seat far enough forward to render it completely useless for an adult passenger.

One thing I would suggest, is that if you want to be sure the vehicle won't need to be replaced to accomodate a baby, is beg/borrow/steal an infant car seat, and strap it into whatever car you are considering, and see if there is enough room for a passenger in front of that. You would be surprised how many cars this eliminates.

[flere-imsaho]

And as a side note: Man, I would love to do this for a living. Not selling cars, but buying cars for people. Let me help you narrow down the type and price for you, work a deal out, and then you just test drive the vehicle and sign the paperwork. Where can I get that job?

They exist. They're usually called "car buying consultants" and can be independent or work for an organization. I believe even AAA has some on staff. Google for the phrase for more info.

[GrantDawg]

They exist. They're usually called "car buying consultants" and can be independent or work for an organization. I believe even AAA has some on staff. Google for the phrase for more info.


I did. I'm looking into, but it doesn't seem to be a common thing in Georgia. California has a good number, though.

[Silver Owl]

Well, we ended up with the Rendezvous...the Lancer we'd been looking at yesterday was sold last night. We looked at a Ford Taurus, but they are known for transmission problems and that coupled with the fact that they aren't making them anymore was enough to make us say no. We looked at the Town and Country, it was much smaller than the Rendezvous, not just in storage, but in head room (radii is 6'4" and Anthony is going to end up at least 6'1) which was a factor. That basically left us with the Rendezvous or keeping the Honda, and after looking at some numbers, mileage, cost of upkeep, etc...we decided to go with the Rendezvous. We are very happy with our decision and the more we talk about it the more we know we did the right thing. Both cars will be paid off within 2 or 3 months and then we can put our efforts toward saving for a house and babies to fill up the new SUV with :)

Hope you got some kind of warranty.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?ed_searchResults@@.ee94fed!keywords=allin%3Amsgtext%20limit%3A.ee94fed%20bcm&count=20

The Pontiac Aztek and Buick Rendezvous use the same BCM module that alot of people are having trouble with. We bought a 2003 Aztek and had to have the module replaced shortly after the warranty ran out. My parents bought a Rendezvous and had the same thing happen. After doing some checking, I found out that this is a common problem.

[oliegirl]

If you are thinking about fitting a baby, don't buy the Rendezvous. The wife and I just got done buying a vehicle with space for the new baby. I spent a lot of time researching vehicles, and one of my favorites was that. One thing you probably don't realize is how much room in the back seat a rear facing car seat requires. One thing I can assure you, is that the Rendezvous (and in fact, many vehicles) does not have enough room for one, without pushing the front seat far enough forward to render it completely useless for an adult passenger.

One thing I would suggest, is that if you want to be sure the vehicle won't need to be replaced to accomodate a baby, is beg/borrow/steal an infant car seat, and strap it into whatever car you are considering, and see if there is enough room for a passenger in front of that. You would be surprised how many cars this eliminates.


Not sure what kind of baby seat you use, but since I have an 8 year old, I've been through the car seat thing before. I had an Oldsmobile when I had Anthony and had no problem getting the car seat to fit in there and the Rendezvous has signigicantly more room in the back seat so I am confident it won't be a problem. Also, my friend had a Lexus RX300 when she had her baby and the car seat fit fine, and the RDV seems bigger in the back than the Lexus. I'm not worried about that at all :)

[Samdari]

Not sure what kind of baby seat you use, but since I have an 8 year old, I've been through the car seat thing before. I had an Oldsmobile when I had Anthony and had no problem getting the car seat to fit in there and the Rendezvous has signigicantly more room in the back seat so I am confident it won't be a problem. Also, my friend had a Lexus RX300 when she had her baby and the car seat fit fine, and the RDV seems bigger in the back than the Lexus. I'm not worried about that at all :)

I use one of the most commonly sold type of rear facing infant car seats. It really was not even close to fitting in the Rendezvous. I also tried the seat in the Rx330 and it did fit fine. The Rendezvous had, conservatively, 10 inches less space between the front and back seats than the Lexus. I remain confident that no rear facing car seat will fit in the Buick - it had easily the least rear seat space of any of the approximately 15 cars we tried our seat in.

But the thrust of my argument remains the same - if you intend the car to be used for a baby, its important to take a baby seat and strap it in. We did not when we bought the car we just traded in, and it was about a $5000 mistake.