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View Full Version : The ethics of gameplanning in a multiplayer league


Narcizo
04-18-2006, 03:55 AM
Just the title of this thread makes me feel all big and clever. Even if it is just a liiiitle bit pretentious. I'm not even sure if this thread belongs here but anyway.

My basic question is "Do you think any gameplan allowable in the game is acceptable in a multiplayer game or do you think that there is some sort of standard that should be adhered to"?

I ask this because I recently was accused of using an unrealistic gameplan in a multiplayer league. Obviously there's no rule that can be put in place but should players avoid using cheesy gameplans? The nature, and flaws, of the game mean that it's possible to use exploits.

For example, as far as I know, the AI won't modify a defensive gameplan in-game to counter an offensive gameplan that uses solely passes or runs. So if you've set up a reputation as a running team in the league you can probably switch to an all-pass offence and completely catch your opponent off-guard. In real life a) you probably wouldn't be able to switch tactics so radically and b) the other team would soon realise what you're doing and switch their defensive stance accordingly. Of course, there's no opportunity to do that in an MP league.

This wasn't the case that I was called up on though. I had been using a balanced offence but, in order to exploit a dodgy pass defence, I switched to a (basically) 100% medium-long passing offence. Personally I wasn't impressed with the results (although we won, thanks to three picks by my defence, their defence were familiar with many of our plays by the half-time mark) but I can understand how an opponent could find that the tactic ruined his suspension of disbelief and spoiled his enjoyment of the league. (I attempted only four runs until my 4th quarter lead gameplan kicked in). I've, occasionally, used the plan in another league without anyone commenting on it, negatively.

However the gameplan does exploit a weakness in the game AI - the fact that long passes are too effective in FOF while short passes are, relatively speaking, rubbish as they tend to kill third down conversion attempts.

My reasoning was
1) I want to pass the ball more and throw it deeper to exploit my offensive strengths and my opponents' weaknesses.
2) I don't want to be throwing short passes when I'm 3rd and long. That means I can't throw short at all.
3) If I'm not going to throw short passes then there's not much point running the ball. Unless I feel that I can make 10 yards in one play. Which I don't. Or I'm willing to run the ball a lot more. Which I don't want to do.
Leading to 4) I wind up throwing medium-deep on every down.

Around point 2 my thinking departs from the real world to FOF world. In the real world I'd be happy to throw short passes on 1st and 2nd down (and 3rd and short). But in FOF there's no opportunity to say "Don't throw short on 3rd and long". So, I set the passing to 10+ yards. That has a knock-on effect that I don't want to run the ball. If I'm throwing for 10+ yards 70% of the time there's no point rushing for 4 yards and wasting a shot at a 1st down conversion. 4 yards gains me precisely nothing. So, in tailoring my gameplan to the realities of FOF rather than of, erm well, reality, I've highlighted the "gaminess" of FOF and, possibly, made it less interesting for my opponent.

Of course my planning also took into account the fact that my opponent wouldn't be defensively planning for an all-out pass offence. I would imagine that the tactic would fall flat if used regularly as opponents would be able to set up all-out pass defences. Highlighting the exploity nature of it.

So should people try to use "realistic" gameplans or does anything go in gameplanning?

Joe
04-18-2006, 05:08 AM
anything goes

cthomer5000
04-18-2006, 05:31 AM
Meh. I'm with GWB... "anything goes."

You take a huge risk running any type of wacky gameplan like that. The one time I busted out a crazy-ass gameplan, my QB threw 7 interceptions (in a win, but just barely). Still, I burned that gameplan with a quickness.

That stuff simply won't work consistently, so I don't think there is much advantage to be had there in the long term. And in the short term, if you guess wrong you're screwed, too.

Narcizo
04-18-2006, 06:49 AM
Meh. I'm with GWB... "anything goes."
That stuff simply won't work consistently, so I don't think there is much advantage to be had there in the long term. And in the short term, if you guess wrong you're screwed, too.

I don't think it is a risk if you're team is weaker than the opponents. It offers a better chance of winning. But are one-off gameplans alright? As they clearly do exploit the limited control available in the multi-player game. Despite normally losing to passing teams I hate playing run-based offences because I know they can just flick the switch and leave me looking like a fool with my run aggressive stance if they decide they're going to pass the ball for this one game.

albionmoonlight
04-18-2006, 06:50 AM
Good discussion. I disagree with a couple of your premises, though.

First, you can make a rule in your constitution about gameplans. The league can decide what isn't allowed and make rules saying it (for example--no amount of passing or running can be > 90%). Personally, I would be against that, but there are ways to try to control it.

Second, I think that you may be underestimating the AI. I know, for example, that Jim has said that the game can take into account if all of your blitzes come from one direction. And QuikSand ran an experiment once where he threw (IIRC) only screen passes, and the defensive AI jumped all over that. Which isn't to say that FOF for sure does counter 100% runs or 100% pass--but it is to say that the FOF AI has demonstrated some ability to stop "extreme" gameplans.

Again--good discussion.

Joe
04-18-2006, 06:59 AM
I don't think it is a risk if you're team is weaker than the opponents. It offers a better chance of winning. But are one-off gameplans alright? As they clearly do exploit the limited control available in the multi-player game. Despite normally losing to passing teams I hate playing run-based offences because I know they can just flick the switch and leave me looking like a fool with my run aggressive stance if they decide they're going to pass the ball for this one game.

Is this discussion in the HFL? If so, I am surprised the people complaining didnt bring anything up when I was in the league with my one-dimensional gameplan (that I used all season), which limited running plays to 6-8 times per game.

fantastic flying froggies
04-18-2006, 09:37 AM
Is this discussion in the HFL? If so, I am surprised the people complaining didnt bring anything up when I was in the league with my one-dimensional gameplan (that I used all season), which limited running plays to 6-8 times per game.

It is indeed in the HFL, but the complaint was by a new owner who never witnessed the Carolina 'pass on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down' gameplan :D ...

Samdari
04-18-2006, 09:52 AM
And QuikSand ran an experiment once where he threw (IIRC) only screen passes, and the defensive AI jumped all over that.

I did something similar. I designed game plans for both offense and defense in an MP test league, trying to find out if certain passes were more effective against certain types of pass defense (i.e. trying to determine what passes to emphasize against a team that ran mostly bnr or mostly zone). The results showed almost nothing useful, as the second half of games had every type of pass ineffective against any type of defense.

Nwobhm
04-18-2006, 11:31 PM
As long as the intent is to win, then I agree that any gameplan should be allowed. There is the potential to setup unrealistic gameplans if someone wanted to lose on purpose. Specifically, a GM could force his team to run the ball in situations where there would be little chance of making 1st downs. For instance, an offense set for 99% running plays on 3rd and 15+ yards to go, while trailing late in the game.

Narcizo
04-19-2006, 03:45 AM
First, you can make a rule in your constitution about gameplans. The league can decide what isn't allowed and make rules saying it (for example--no amount of passing or running can be > 90%). Personally, I would be against that, but there are ways to try to control it.

Second, I think that you may be underestimating the AI. I know, for example, that Jim has said that the game can take into account if all of your blitzes come from one direction. And QuikSand ran an experiment once where he threw (IIRC) only screen passes, and the defensive AI jumped all over that. Which isn't to say that FOF for sure does counter 100% runs or 100% pass--but it is to say that the FOF AI has demonstrated some ability to stop "extreme" gameplans.


1. Such a rule or agreement would be pretty difficult to enforce without the commisioner (who, in most leagues, is also a player) accessing other people's gameplans. Which would probably be a source of contention.

2. I'm still kind of new to FOF gameplanning but is the AI that the game uses in single play or under computer control in MP the same as the AI used if a human player has gameplanned themselves (or, in the majority of cases, hit the recommend)? Otherwise this doesn't really have a bearing.

From what I can gather the current sentiment seems to be that it is ok to use extreme gameplans (Tampa Bay in NAFL have gone to the other extreme, with questionable success) because, in the long run, the gameplans won't work, just as they (probably) wouldn't work in real life. So the from a utility point of view it's ok to do it because it will eventually punish the user. But what about from a game-spoiling point of view? Reading through the play-by-play I have to say that I was pretty embarrassed reading through, and it sort of made me see his point of view. The guy in question likened it to Arena Football (which means nothing to me but I'm guessing it does to other people).

I doubt I'll use the gameplan again - I didn't really feel like I deserved the win and I got a much greater buzz out of winning the next week with a "normal" gameplan (even if we did get humped any which way for three quarters). Also using primarily passing plays excludes your offensive linesmen from any chance at honours as they allow more sacks and don't get KRBs. Oh and I want Larry Brown to continue with his 1,000 yard season streak.

GWB, I forgot your infamous 4 runs for 16 yards in 38-10 win over the Saints. But you did actually use screen passes and short passes. I think some of the reaction came from the fact that I didn't. Looking back at the game files it looks as though you abandoned that gameplan after the first two weeks. Can you remember if that was because you thought people were going to start setting their defences against it or what?

Joe
04-19-2006, 06:06 AM
GWB, I forgot your infamous 4 runs for 16 yards in 38-10 win over the Saints. But you did actually use screen passes and short passes. I think some of the reaction came from the fact that I didn't. Looking back at the game files it looks as though you abandoned that gameplan after the first two weeks. Can you remember if that was because you thought people were going to start setting their defences against it or what?

One of my WRs got hurt, so I switched things up, then used it again when he got healthy and I had 2 good targets.

MrBigglesworth
04-20-2006, 01:18 PM
I would think that if your team is known for running the ball, you have a better running team than a passing team. So even if someone goes from run to pass like that, it shouldn't be a huge advantage over the long run if the defense had a sensible defensive gameplan. If that person employs an sell out to the run defensive gameplan when you choose to go passing, then that is their misfortune for playing an extreme defense.

tarcone
04-20-2006, 05:30 PM
I play to the strength of my team
in HFL i use a short passing game and have had decent success. i dont run alot (more then GWB) but not an extreme amount
in other leagues i do what i have the talent to do
no ethics just trying to win is where i am coming from

Fonzie
04-20-2006, 08:00 PM
The other consideration here is what is meant by "ethical" gameplanning. Suggesting that particular gameplans are unethical presupposes that it gives the owner an advantage over the other owners, and it might for any given game. However, this same gameplanning option is available to all owners in the league. They can all take advantage of it to the same degree, and so in the long-run there should be no concern about equity.

Or something.