hybrid cars

[Lathum]

anyone own one or know someone who does? We are thinking of buying one and are looking for opinions.

[saldana]

my opinion would most likely result in a trip to the penalty box.....or more specifically, my opinion of you if you buy one.

[saldana]

dola. one of the guys from the squad had one, he said he got about 50 mpg and never had any problems with it in terms of power or performance.

[sabotai]

Hybrid cars are the leading cause of smug.

[Lathum]

my opinion would most likely result in a trip to the penalty box.....or more specifically, my opinion of you if you buy one.
why?

[Lathum]

dola-
we are looking at one because we will have to make about 7-8 trips a year from cinci to NJ

[pbot]

Been driving a hybrid for a little over a year. Get 48-55 mpg depending upon the time of year. Have't had any issues with it. Unless you're driving a Hummer right now, I don't know that I'd recommend purchasing a hybrid for 7-8 moderately long trips a year.

[Swaggs]

I think you will find significantly better gas mileage on something like a Honda Civic Hybrid or Toyota Prius, but the six cylinder models are not really much of a benefit just yet, as a significant portion of the batteried power is geared towards improving the horsepower of the car.

The last I read about hybrids in Consumer Reports (and this may have been before the recent gas increases) was that it takes 8-10 years of use before you will begin to break even, as the added sales price does not really outweigh the improved gas price savings just yet. So, to own a hybrid now is more of a ethical/moral choice to conserve energy/save the environment, rather than a financial choice.

[Daimyo]

dola-
we are looking at one because we will have to make about 7-8 trips a year from cinci to NJ
In that case you might want to look at a regular Honda Civic. Unlike regular cars hybrids get better gas mileage in stop-and-go city driving then they do in highway driving. If you want it mostly for highway driving a regular civic may very well give you better gas mileage and save a couple grand up front.

To answer the original question though a friend of mine has a Prius and he loves it. I've ridden in it twice and it seems really nice.

[wade moore]

In that case you might want to look at a regular Honda Civic. Unlike regular cars hybrids get better gas mileage in stop-and-go city driving then they do in highway driving. If you want it mostly for highway driving a regular civic may very well give you better gas mileage and save a couple grand up front.

To answer the original question though a friend of mine has a Prius and he loves it. I've ridden in it twice and it seems really nice.

This is what I was going to say as well.. My understanding (very non-indepth) is that something with the act of breaking is where much of the benefit comes, therefore highway driving is not helpful... a Hybrid is actually much more advantagous to the person that has a long commute in stop-and-go traffic.

[Young Drachma]

My Honda Civic Hybrid is coming in this week...

[chinaski]

I have 3 friends with Prius's - theyre all hardcore geek in love with them. I'll get a hybrid for next car purchase, but im still holding out, like I do with most "new" technologies.

[Lathum]

My Honda Civic Hybrid is coming in this week...
this is the one we are looking at...

[st.cronin]

I'll get a hybrid for next car purchase.

Ditto, most likely. Of course, that will hopefully be at least 5 years from now.

[Chubby]

I'll be leaning towards a Civic Hybrid for my next car. Hopefully that's a little ways away since my current Civic is almost paid off and having no car payments for a while would be nice :D

[Greyroofoo]

i hate the way a prius looks

[Young Drachma]

i hate the way a prius looks

Same here.

[Galaxy]

Are hybrids really "cheaper"? Gas mileage wise, yes. But I hear that the price of the car doesn't make it much of a "savings", thought gas is rising.

[hoopsguy]

OK, the cost of my Civic Hybrid was about 4.5K more than the cost of an ordinary Civic (2004 model, purchased in summer of 2004).

1.) I got a 1,500 tax credit the first year for owning it
2.) I'm averaging about 40 mpg in this car - I don't try to drive it in a way that optimizes the mileage, I just drive it like any other car but I have monitored the mileage since I got it
3.) I'm around 45,000 miles in the car and have had it just over 2 years.
4.) The tank holds 13 gallons of gas

For some simple math, working relatively current gas prices in Chicago, I'll estimate that it takes $40 to fill the tank. It is actually a little more than this now if I completely drain it, but ...

22K miles per year
40 miles per gallon
13 gallons in the tank
520 miles per fill up
$40 to fill it up
22,000/520 = 42.3 fillups per year
Cost of gas = 1692

Now, lets assume I got a vehicle that got me 25mpg, by comparison (actual mileage, not listed. Remember, I'm only getting 40 out of the 48 listed for the Civic Hybrid).

22k miles per year
25 mpg
13 gallons in tank
325 miles per fill up
$40 to fill up
22000/325 = 67.7 fillups per year
$40 to fill it up
Cost of gas = 2707

Difference between 40mpg and 25mpg = a little over 1,000

Given these numbers, I'll have made back the initial investment in three years, not 8-10, factoring in only the tax credit and the gas savings.

On top of that, my employer pays me a fixed rate for my mileage. It doesn't matter if I get 1 MPG or 100 MPG, the rate is the same. So if my gas expenses are less with the Hybrid, then I'm getting more value here as well. Probably 40% of my mileage is for work - going to clients, going to the office doesn't count - which makes this number add up as well.

For me, the Hybrid was completely a financial decision.

I haven't had any problems at all with the vehicle up to this point. The only inconvenience I've seen is that for oil changes my car uses one that isn't available at every Jiffy Lube, which means that I can avoid a decent amount of hassle by paying more at the dealer or just call ahead and make sure the oil change place I want to use has the right materials.

The performance on the car is quite a bit less than what I'm used to driving. I'm not a big performance car guy by any means (if I was, would I be driving a hybrid?) but I do like my acceleration as much as the next guy and that is just not here on this vehicle. Also, the top speed on this is a little less than 90. So if these points are going to curtail any enjoyment in driving, you should definitely consider them as part of the package.

[QuikSand]

On top of that, my employer pays me a fixed rate for my mileage. It doesn't matter if I get 1 MPG or 100 MPG, the rate is the same. So if my gas expenses are less with the Hybrid, then I'm getting more value here as well. Probably 40% of my mileage is for work - going to clients, going to the office doesn't count - which makes this number add up as well.

I found your analysis interesting. Well, up until this point.

How is this something to be counted separately than your other savings? You spend less on gas, we get the point. Whether you get reimbursed by your employer for driving has zero to do with how much you spend on gas. Considering this "as well" is just double counting the same savings. Stick to the simple argument -- you spend less on gas, and get a tax credit, and that's worth it.

[Bee]

A friend of mine has a Prius he bought about 3 or 4 years ago. The reason he got it was to use the HOV lanes when driving to work in DC. I believe this has changed in Virginia recently but for the last 3-4 years, my friend has saved a ton of time commuting to work everyday. He told me recently that he figured he was ahead financially at this point and something about being able to continue driving in HOV because his hybrid isn't new (I didn't really pay much attention to what he was talking about there but apparently new hybrids are not given the same HOV consideration as old ones or something). In any case, his calculations seemed to be similar to hoopsguy and he was pretty happy overall. Also, he told me that his Prius had held its value quite well and he was probably going to sell it when he changed offices in the fall.

[Samdari]

The tax credit is going away, no?

[Coder]

I'm driving a Volvo S40 Flexifuel, using Ford's Flexifuel engine.. don't think it's available in the States though, but it runs on E85 and regular gas if needed..

[hoopsguy]

Quik, I see what you mean about double-counting. So take that number out of the mix in terms of pure costs. If it isn't a pure savings, it still is enjoyable to feel like my employer is actually picking up the costs of my vehicle rather than feeling like I'm losing money on this proposition as I did with my previous car that got about 20mpg. Which, in turn, helps me feel better about driving a car that doesn't offer me as much driving pleasure as I would like.

[Bee]

The tax credit is going away, no?

I thought I had seen where it was getting cut in half, but I'm not sure if they are phasing it out completely or not.

[flere-imsaho]

My Dad's had a Prius for about a year and a half now. He does a lot of driving for work, and a lot of highway driving (as mentioned before, not as good for hybrid gas mileage as stop-and-go) and has never averaged below 50 mpg.

It's also a nice & comfy car. There's a surprising amount of room in the back seat, and it rides nicely. More Camry than Corolla, for those of you familiar with other Toyotas.

He also lives in Maine and drives all over northern New England - and says it drives well in the snow, though recommends getting good all-seasons, or even good snow tires if you drive on a lot of "sporadically-plowed" roads. Don't know if that makes a difference for you.

[Philliesfan980]

Any truth to the rumor that the batteries which generate the power for the hybrid features are expensive as hell?

[GrantDawg]

I thought I had seen where it was getting cut in half, but I'm not sure if they are phasing it out completely or not.


The tax credit is in affect all year, but has a cap on the number of units can be sold by the different makers. Once they hit a certain number sold, it will start to drop. Toyota probably has hit that mark, or will soon. It is doubtful many other makers have, but some might before the end of the year. (I think the number was 250,000. As of last year, Toyota was the only brand that had sold that many cars).

[GrantDawg]

Any truth to the rumor that the batteries which generate the power for the hybrid features are expensive as hell?

They are, but you get a 7 year warranty on it and all other hybrid parts.

[flere-imsaho]

Any truth to the rumor that the batteries which generate the power for the hybrid features are expensive as hell?

The batteries don't generate the power, they store the power created by the engine, the regenerative brakes, etc.... I can't remember when they're supposed to be replaced, but I think it's at least 8 years down the road, if not longer.

[Young Drachma]

The tax credit is in affect all year, but has a cap on the number of units can be sold by the different makers. Once they hit a certain number sold, it will start to drop. Toyota probably has hit that mark, or will soon. It is doubtful many other makers have, but some might before the end of the year. (I think the number was 250,000. As of last year, Toyota was the only brand that had sold that many cars).

They have. If you buy one before September, you get the whole $3k or whatever it is tax credit, after that, its just half.

[Mustang]

Any truth to the rumor that the batteries which generate the power for the hybrid features are expensive as hell?

$2.99.. Wal-mart.

http://image.magellans.com/mitcus/Images/eb103_dt.jpg

[Grammaticus]

dola-
we are looking at one because we will have to make about 7-8 trips a year from cinci to NJ
I did a little research when purchasing my last vehicle. The battery power is used when the vehicle is under a speed of about 45 mph. When under that speed you will see a drastic increase in your gas mileage. When over that speed you will see a slight decrease in gas mileage, as the engine must now carry the additional weight of the battery.

If you are purchasing a car based on saving gas over long highway trips, you are better off going with a non hybrid car that gets good gas mileage. Make it a light vehicle and five speed manual transmission to maximize this. Don't use external lugage racks or anything else that impacts the aerodynamics.

If you go hybrid, you will likely pay more in gas costs since you will get less mpg at cruising speeds. You may offset this by better mpg on your city driving, but at best you are looking at a break even.

[wade moore]

I was with Hoopsguy right until he started using 25 mpg as a comparison.. should he be comparting the Civic Hybrid to the Civic? Which, I believe, gets around 35 MPG?

[hoopsguy]

Wade, I'm willing to use whatever numbers you want to use for comparison. But if you are going to list the manufactured specs for mileage, then I will use 48 for the Civic Hybrid instead of the 40 I'm using.

I don't think any of the other numbers change for my situation, but certainly other people are going to be looking at different amounts they drive each year, etc.

Beyond that, I just wanted to point out that I didn't see an 8-10 year time frame to achieve a return on investment with the vehicle as some earlier posts had suggested.

[hoopsguy]

2004 Civic Hybrid - lists at 48/47 mpg, I'm getting about 40.5 over 45k miles so far.

2004 Civic - lists 35/40 mpg, I don't know what mileage I would get but if I list it at 37.5 and factor in the same dropoff from what I'm seeing on my current car for real-world conditions and my driving style, then I should probably use 31 mpg for the comparison instead of 25.

Using those numbers, the gas costs come out to 2184 per year for the Civic compared to the Civic Hybrid. Which is a pretty big difference, as using those numbers it assumes a six year period to break even with the tax credit coming into play (compared to three using 25 mpg for the comparison).

This assumes fixed gas prices at the current rates.

[wade moore]

2004 Civic Hybrid - lists at 48/47 mpg, I'm getting about 40.5 over 45k miles so far.

2004 Civic - lists 35/40 mpg, I don't know what mileage I would get but if I list it at 37.5 and factor in the same dropoff from what I'm seeing on my current car for real-world conditions and my driving style, then I should probably use 31 mpg for the comparison instead of 25.

Using those numbers, the gas costs come out to 2184 per year for the Civic compared to the Civic Hybrid. Which is a pretty big difference, as using those numbers it assumes a six year period to break even with the tax credit coming into play (compared to three using 25 mpg for the comparison).

This assumes fixed gas prices at the current rates.

And see, this is much closer to that 8-10 year gap.. I think this is the true analysis that you have to do to understand when a civic hybrid "pays for itself" .. you have to compare it to it's non-hybrid counterpart...