Best State for High School Football

[albionmoonlight]

I've heard various arguments for Texas, Georgia, Florida, and California.

I figure that this would make a good poll, but before we post it, let's let people knock around the question a bit here. I'm sure that I'm missing a state or two that deserves to be considered.

Also, by "best," I mean some combination of talent and passion. Though it would really come down to a modified "I know it when I see it" standard.

[gottimd]

Vermont?

[Klinglerware]

American Samoa?

[WSUCougar]

I'd probably narrow it down to either Texas or Florida.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Nevada. The cold part.

[molson]

American Samoa?

Based on ratio of players that make it to Div. 1 college programs, American Samoa would win easily.

[Ben E Lou]

I would argue either Texas or Georgia, if you're looking for a combination of overall passion AND talent. Yes, California and Florida have a great deal of talent, but there are large pockets in those two states where the passion is decidely NOT there. When I did YL at perennial stink-bomb Osbone High in Marietta, as bad as that program was, it STILL drew 1,000 or so on most Friday nights on the home side, and when we were playing a McEachern or Marietta, plenty of community folks would come out to see the big-time talent on display from those schools. Yes, there are a handful of poorer schools in metro Atlanta that get stuck with a 5:00 game and have less than 100 there, but overall, those seem to be pretty rare. From what I understand, it's the same way in Texas, that even the weaker teams keep people interested. There's definitely a social/community aspect of it in Georgia. It's relatively easy to draw 5,000-15,000 when you've got 5-10 D1 kids on the field, but what impresses me about Georgia (and what I've heard about Texas) is the community that gets built even around the crappy teams.

[Ben E Lou]

This supports my argument for Georgia, and also pushes Louisiana into the mix. Think per capita:

From NFLHS.com (http://www.nflhs.com/News/Features/2005Roster/Default.asp), the home states of players on 2005 NFL rosters:


1. California 199
2. Florida 179
3. Texas 176
4. Georgia 90
5. Ohio 78
6. Louisiana 76
7. Pennsylvania 58
8. Michigan 50
9. Virginia 49
10. South Carolina 48

[Toddzilla]

I've met people at my various jobs that have gone to high school in Florida, Georgia, Texas, Pennsylvania and such, and heard their stories about how important high school football is. Two of my best friends at work grew up in Texas and some of my best friends from college now live in Atlanta and in Florida.

Without a doubt, Texas is far and away the best state. No one else even comes close. Maybe if Georgia and Florida were one state they would equal about half of what high school football means in Texas. But I doubt it.

[st.cronin]

I would think Ohio has to get some props. I was driving through Ohio one time on a Friday night, and quite literally the only thing on FM radio was high school football. Every single channel, high school football.

[Ben E Lou]

Per capita, among the top ten, that would rank them:

1. Louisiana: 16.80 per million
2. South Carolina: 11.28
3. Florida: 10.06
4. Georgia: 9.92
5. Texas: 7.69
6. Ohio: 6.80
7. Virginia: 6.48
8. California: 5.51
9. Michigan: 4.94
10. Pennsylvania: 4.67

I think looking at the per capita numbers of the 10 highest producers makes solid sense to me. Squeeze the kind of talent in Louisiana into one state, and clearly the passion will be there. Also, anecdotally based on the conversations with Louisiana kids I had after Katrina, it seems like the community aspects are there, too. I've sensed it in SC, and the numbers support it, too. I'd vote:

1. Louisiana
2. SC
3. Georgia

[wade moore]

Surprised to see Virginia up here... I think in the southern part football is pretty big, but in Northern Virginia it's hit or miss based on the quality of the football program.

[rowech]

Living in Ohio...it's up there with whatever state you want to put up. Friday night's around here are shut down the state. As Cronin said, the FM/AM radio dial just becomes football central. Every newscast is about 10 minutes long and then 20 minutes of highlights from everywhere. The papers will put pro sports to the back pages during football season. I grew up in a small town of about 20,000 people and the movie Friday Night Lights describes much of Ohio football.

[Huckleberry]

SkyDog -

Louisiana has very concentrated talent. The vast majority of the state is filled with crappy football teams.

I played football in the weakest high school football region in Texas aside from the Rio Grande Valley. We still averaged probably in the neighborhood of 3,000 per game (helped by the fact that homecoming was attended by 8,000-10,000 people the years I was there.)

[WSUCougar]

I'm not sure I agree with SD's use of NFL roster talent as a gauge for high school talent and related passion.

[digamma]

Texas is a pretty solid #1 in my book.

2-6 is, in some order, Georgia, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Louisiana.

California has more overall talent, but absolutely no atmosphere.

[cartman]

Texas also is a solid #1 in my book. Even the cities that are too small to field 11 player teams still put together six man football teams. If you drive through some of the small towns in Texas, that have maybe 1500 to 2000 people, the high school stadium will seat 5000. Driving into any small town, you'll see a list of the high school team's accomplishments listed, from Divisional titles to State titles.

[Tigercat]

I wouldn't say Louisiana's talent is anymore concentrated than other states. Louisiana has multiple areas that feed colleges in big numbers, Acadiana, Shreveport, New Orleans area, and the river parishes. I could name many NFL and college stars that have come from all of those areas. (Not to mention being able to name national recognized HS powers that are far away from each other.)

But yea, talent-wise Louisiana has been #1 for a while. I think it has to do with the fact that so many of our areas that aren't dirt road poor all have decent to great youth sports programs.

And while I would put Texas on a whole ahead of Louisiana in HS football passion, its not like you cross the boarder and you find totally different worlds.

If you want the atmosphere, its all about picking the right spot in Texas on a couple Friday nights. But if you want to see the young talent shine, a couple of Friday's in Louisiana would work.

[CleBrownsfan]

O-H-I-O

I live in the burbs of C-Town and there are many big time DI schools around the area that are constantly nationally ranked. I heard that some of these schools recruit pretty hard to get transfers. Pretty crazy if you think about it - I mean it's high school football.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I have to admit that I wish I went to high school, mainly so that I would've had a Louisiana school to cheer for. I worked with lots of people who were obsessed with their New Orleans area schools (particularly Jesuit and Brother Martin, but Shaw and those doormats De La Salle were represented, too).

Since I never followed high school football, I can't speak for the amount of talent in Louisiana, but the passion was certainly there. Believe me, if you can get people to care about your sport in New Orleans (a city that had plenty of other entertainment), you've got a pretty good product. I would imagine that the smaller cities in Louisiana are even more hardcore about their high school football.

I wish I could've had a part of that.

[Butter]

1. Texas
2. Georgia
3. Ohio
4. South Carolina
5. Florida

[albionmoonlight]

I have to admit that I wish I went to high school, mainly so that I would've had a Louisiana school to cheer for. I worked with lots of people who were obsessed with their New Orleans area schools (particularly Jesuit and Brother Martin, but Shaw and those doormats De La Salle were represented, too).

Since I never followed high school football, I can't speak for the amount of talent in Louisiana, but the passion was certainly there. Believe me, if you can get people to care about your sport in New Orleans (a city that had plenty of other entertainment), you've got a pretty good product. I would imagine that the smaller cities in Louisiana are even more hardcore about their high school football.

I wish I could've had a part of that.

So just this morning I've had Jeeber call my wife a man and Pumpy call my high school a doormat.

I did not provoke these attacks--which are, at best, half-truths.

Maybe it is just not my day to be on FOFC.

[panerd]

No doubt that Texas and a lot of the other Southern schools are head and shoulders above the rest, but I am pretty sure that Friday nights are an all across America thing. I have lived in Missouri, Indiana, and Ohio and pretty much every rural town is shut down for the football games. And even the cities like St. Louis and Cincinnati have their share of large crowds. I would guess this would be true in about any small town in any state. (Maybe not Alaska or Hawaii, but I could even be wrong there)

[cuervo72]

I'll stick up for PA at least being mentioned. We had nice crowds at Neshaminy and had some strong teams in our league (Central Bucks West had a few separate insane winning streaks), and the Philly burbs usually have decent football. Same goes for some of the coal towns, Pittsburgh, Erie, etc. We don't have the quality that there is down south (the factors as to why that is could make for interesting discussion), but overall, a pretty strong state for it.

[Swaggs]

I'd rank Texas well above the rest.

[st.cronin]

No doubt that Texas and a lot of the other Southern schools are head and shoulders above the rest, but I am pretty sure that Friday nights are an all across America thing. I have lived in Missouri, Indiana, and Ohio and pretty much every rural town is shut down for the football games. And even the cities like St. Louis and Cincinnati have their share of large crowds. I would guess this would be true in about any small town in any state. (Maybe not Alaska or Hawaii, but I could even be wrong there)

Not in the northeast, that I was ever aware. My high school didn't even have a football team.

[Bee]

Texas is my clear #1. After that Florida and Georgia would be ahead of most everyone else in my book.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'd probably go with:
1) Texas
2) Georgia
3) Louisiana
4) Florida
5) California

And Ohio narrowly misses, mostly because of the size advantage Cali has.
A couple of other states that I don't think have been mentioned but I perceive as being well above average would be Tennessee and Pennsylvania.

So far, the only one that has surprised me in this thread has been South Carolina which I'm not at all sure is even as good/better for this list than Alabama.

[Crapshoot]

Not in the northeast, that I was ever aware. My high school didn't even have a football team.

Aye - different priority quene for the people up here. :D

[MrBug708]

Is this thread about who produces more talent? Or who loves watching it on a Friday night?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Just for kicks, I may attend a high school hockey game this year, and that's absolutely unheard of in Louisiana.

This irrelevant message has been brought to you by Pumpy Tudors and the 8-ounce piece of coal on Pumpy Tudors' desk.

[VPI97]

I would guess this would be true in about any small town in any state. (Maybe not Alaska or Hawaii, but I could even be wrong there)
Yeah, in the small town in Virginia where I went to high school, our stadium seated 15,000...and our town's population was around 6,000. While we didn't fill the stadium every game, it was packed for the big games.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I went to high school in Louisiana (Shreveport area), but I wasn't aware of any kind of severe passion for high school football. Not like in Texas or western PA. Of course, the fact that my school had one of the worst teams in the state might have had something to do with that lack of passion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is this thread about who produces more talent? Or who loves watching it on a Friday night?

If I read the question right, it's sort of a combination of those factors & any/every thing else.

[Eaglesfan27]

Per capita, among the top ten, that would rank them:

1. Louisiana: 16.80 per million
2. South Carolina: 11.28
3. Florida: 10.06
4. Georgia: 9.92
5. Texas: 7.69
6. Ohio: 6.80
7. Virginia: 6.48
8. California: 5.51
9. Michigan: 4.94
10. Pennsylvania: 4.67

I think looking at the per capita numbers of the 10 highest producers makes solid sense to me. Squeeze the kind of talent in Louisiana into one state, and clearly the passion will be there. Also, anecdotally based on the conversations with Louisiana kids I had after Katrina, it seems like the community aspects are there, too. I've sensed it in SC, and the numbers support it, too. I'd vote:

1. Louisiana
2. SC
3. Georgia

Good points. I'd definitely say the passion revolving around H.S. Football is here in Louisiana. I lived in Los Angeles for 4 years, and the passion was there for some schools, but I didn't think the intensity for even the bad schools matched what I've seen in Louisiana.

[Young Drachma]

Thanksgiving day football games are a pretty big tradition in New Jersey and I miss it.

[stevew]

Yeah, in the small town in Virginia where I went to high school, our stadium seated 15,000...and our town's population was around 6,000. While we didn't fill the stadium every game, it was packed for the big games.

My wife's school in VA was apparently the same way. Small town, huge field. I believe they had to move to A eventually, since they didn't have enough students.

[stevew]

Just for kicks, I may attend a high school hockey game this year, and that's absolutely unheard of in Louisiana.

This irrelevant message has been brought to you by Pumpy Tudors and the 8-ounce piece of coal on Pumpy Tudors' desk.
There have been a fair amount of pro level QB's that came out of Pittsburgh Central Catholic. I know Bulger and Marino did.

[cuervo72]

There have been a fair amount of pro level QB's that came out of Pittsburgh Central Catholic. I know Bulger and Marino did.

Central Catholic beat Neshaminy (again, my school) in 2004 for the PIAA-4A title. :)

They also won it in 1988, beating Cedar Cliff; Cedar Cliff was the team that had beaten us 28-0 the game before (my sophomore year) and featured Kyle Brady.

hxxp://trojannation.tripod.com/id92.html

[VPI97]

My wife's school in VA was apparently the same way. Small town, huge field. I believe they had to move to A eventually, since they didn't have enough students.
What school did she go to? It's gotta be in SW Virginia.

[AgustusM]

I coach HS football in California and sadly I agree Texas is #1.

We do have some games that get great attendance especially when we play national power De La Salle, but for your standard Friday night league game we play in front of some sparse crowds, especially on the road. At least at home the stands are pretty full because our school has a long storied history and football is very important in our small little town.

All in all I would love to coach HS football in a place like Texas.

[stevew]

What school did she go to? It's gotta be in SW Virginia.
Gate City.

[VPI97]

Gate City.
Heh...I know Gate City pretty well. They weren't in our district, but they were in our region until they moved to single A. We (Graham High) played them in the playoffs in '89 & '91. Beat them both times :) My cousin (Chad Beasley) played for them a few years after that before going onto VT and the NFL...

[SackAttack]

The larger the state, the more individual talent will come out of it (but that doesn't speak to per-capita talent).

On the other hand, California and Florida are two of the four largest states in the union by population, and you wouldn't exactly call either one a hotbed of hockey passion, just by way of example.

I'd say if you're talking about the best state both in terms of talent and passion, it's gotta be below the Mason-Dixon line, and that means probably Texas or Georgia, as others have said.

[Vince]

I'll echo the sentiments of others -- High School Football in California isn't followed with NEARLY the passion of many other places.

[stevew]

Heh...I know Gate City pretty well. They weren't in our district, but they were in our region until they moved to single A. We (Graham High) played them in the playoffs in '89 & '91. Beat them both times :) My cousin (Chad Beasley) played for them a few years after that before going onto VT and the NFL...

I remember GC playing Graham a few times when i lived in Bristol from about 94-00.

[bulletsponge]

All in all I would love to coach HS football in a place like Texas

the best HS coaches in Texas get fat cash. i remember reading about 10 years ago the list of the best paid HS coaches in texas, some were making several hundred thousand a year, and that was a decade ago.

[Super Ugly]

I guess I can't really comment, but I noticed that they were nuts for high school football in Alabama. Absolutely crackers for it. I had the same thing while driving around the Montgomery/Birmingham area one Friday night - every radio station was talking about the games.

[Buccaneer]

In my travels and esp. reading local papers, I would agree with Texas, Georgia and Louisiana. In other states and regions, it becomes more of hot pockets here and there (like Western PA, Northern Ohio, etc.). I have not been to Southern Georgia during football season but I would imagine the state being more ubiquitous in its fanaticism about football.

SD is right about California (I didn't read much beyond the per capita post), there are some definite hot spot (and Florida too, I believe) but good chunks of the state are really weak. When I was in HS out in So Cal, I believe football was big but as far as community participation and leagues, I would say baseball/softball as well as soccer were just as big.

[BYU 14]

Without a doubt Texas in my book. Multi-level press boxes, artificial grass fields, Staduims that hold 12,000 - 15,000 that are always packed. It is a religion in most parts and the community support is unbelievable.

One good measuring stick is Coaches salaries. Here in AZ most Schools give Head Coaches an $8,000 - $12,000 stipend. As Assistants we get $2,000 - $3,000 stipends for the most part. In Texas a Head Coach at a top program can command $60,000 plus and not have to teach.

Granted none of us at the High School level really do it for the Money, but it would sure be nice to "not do it for the Money" with a Salary like some of the Texas Coaches pull down. :)

[cthomer5000]

Thanksgiving day football games are a pretty big tradition in New Jersey and I miss it.

Yeah, the last game of the season for non-playoff teams. Definitely got by far the biggest crowds of the season.

Otherwise, in this area you only go to the game if:

1. You are currently attending one of the high schools playing in the game.
2. Your son or daughter is playing or cheering in the game.

[AgustusM]

Without a doubt Texas in my book. Multi-level press boxes, artificial grass fields, Staduims that hold 12,000 - 15,000 that are always packed. It is a religion in most parts and the community support is unbelievable.

One good measuring stick is Coaches salaries. Here in AZ most Schools give Head Coaches an $8,000 - $12,000 stipend. As Assistants we get $2,000 - $3,000 stipends for the most part. In Texas a Head Coach at a top program can command $60,000 plus and not have to teach.

Granted none of us at the High School level really do it for the Money, but it would sure be nice to "not do it for the Money" with a Salary like some of the Texas Coaches pull down. :)

amazing.

The school I coach at (Pittsburg) is one of the top 5 teams in Northern California for the last 5 years. We have a total of 22 coaches at all 3 levels, and the TOTAL stipend is 6 - 2,000 stipends that the head coach splits roughly evenly - or in other words less then 600 bucks a guy. I actually don't take a cut because I do well in my business and some of the coaches are younger and really broke so I would rather there be more for them. This is for a job that in the off-season is 20 hours a week and in-season is 30-40 hours a week.

[Buccaneer]

That's not a bad measure. How does that compare to GA, FL or LA?

[cuervo72]

Yeah, the last game of the season for non-playoff teams. Definitely got by far the biggest crowds of the season.

Otherwise, in this area you only go to the game if:

1. You are currently attending one of the high schools playing in the game.
2. Your son or daughter is playing or cheering in the game.

My mom's husband went to CB West (the one with the insane winning streaks), and still goes to every game, with no other rooting interest besides having gone there (almost 40 years ago).

[Ben E Lou]

That's not a bad measure. How does that compare to GA, FL or LA?I know of at least one job in Georgia offering $85K with no teaching, and I am under the impression that Cecil Flowe makes 6 figures at Parkview. I'm guessing that either Parkview, Brookwood, Camden County, or Valdosta would have the highest paid coaches in the state.

[miami_fan]

Bump

ESPN is running one of their brackt contest on this topic.


http://sports.espn.go.com/highschool/rise/football/news/story?id=3546427&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab8pos1

[Comey]

I have to stick up for PA as well. My alma mater is in what may be the best small-school division in the state, for football and basketball. Always amazing crowds, always amazing teams.

The same could be said all over the state. What it's produced is well-documented. A lot of the greatest QBs in history came from western PA. Berwick won a couple "national titles". With the addition of the Philly Catholic League to the PIAA, and teams like Gateway, McKeesport, Parkland, etc getting some national competition...high school football is more than alive and well in the nation.

[Glengoyne]

My thoughts are as anecdotal and valid as anyone else here.

So Here I go.

1)Texas
2)Ohio
The rest GA, PA, FL...How about Illinois? I hear about a rich tradition in there as well. Yet, no love in this thread.

[kingnebwsu]

I'd go for:

1)Texas
2)Florida
3)California
4)Ohio

5-50)The Rest

[SFL Cat]

Florida has some unbelievable players, but I'd probably have to give the edge to Texas.

[cuervo72]

The same could be said all over the state. What it's produced is well-documented. A lot of the greatest QBs in history came from western PA. Berwick won a couple "national titles". With the addition of the Philly Catholic League to the PIAA, and teams like Gateway, McKeesport, Parkland, etc getting some national competition...high school football is more than alive and well in the nation.

We scrimmaged Berwick the year after we went to the state playoffs, drove to their place at the tail end of our camp (soph/jr years we went up to the Poconos to train). That was an experience. Seemed like nothing was up there but hills and coal plants. That, and a big old stadium. They pretty much kicked our tails.

Oh yeah - their QB at the time? Ron Powlus. Yeah, he eventually washed out, but he was a pretty big deal at the time apparently.

[Senator]

I think Texas is the top, but you won't see me feeling cheated if I have to watch a game in Georgia, Alabama, or Louisiana.

When we get 1000 people to our local 9-10 year old city Super Bowl, I know we are a bunch of crazies.

[HerRealName]

My thoughts are as anecdotal and valid as anyone else here.

So Here I go.

1)Texas
2)Ohio
The rest GA, PA, FL...How about Illinois? I hear about a rich tradition in there as well. Yet, no love in this thread.

Illinois produces decent talent but fan passion for high school football in Illinois is almost nonexistent.

[Warhammer]

I'd nominate Panola County MS for the discussion, the amount of college talent that comes out of that school is sick.

[korme]

Living in Ohio...it's up there with whatever state you want to put up. Friday night's around here are shut down the state. As Cronin said, the FM/AM radio dial just becomes football central. Every newscast is about 10 minutes long and then 20 minutes of highlights from everywhere. The papers will put pro sports to the back pages during football season. I grew up in a small town of about 20,000 people and the movie Friday Night Lights describes much of Ohio football.

Was going to compare Friday Night Lights as well... those scenes driving through town just gives me goosebumps. Crazy awesome goosebumps.

[korme]

1. Texas
2. Georgia
3. Ohio
4. South Carolina
5. Florida

Ok, the Longhorns, Bulldogs, Buckeyes, and Gators are all extremely prestigious college football programs. The Gamecocks are on this list and have The Old Ball Coach. Why are they not greater?

[cartman]

Ok, the Longhorns, Bulldogs, Buckeyes, and Gators are all extremely prestigious college football programs. The Gamecocks are on this list and have The Old Ball Coach. Why are they not greater?

Traditionally, Clemson has been the much stronger program from S. Carolina.

[Karlifornia]

Definitely ain't California...we don't give a shit about high school football...

[judicial clerk]

... but Cali does produce the most studs. i would like to see the D1 player production stats

[CU Tiger]

As for HS football. I'm not sure many peeople who are not FROM SC get what it is here.

I've lived in Texas and Florida and Texas is as big, Florida doesnt compare.

Sure small towns close up, but how many Super Wal Marts close down Friday at 5pm and re open at 1 AM (depending on location of high school game)

How many have stadiums off campus that seat 15,000 and sell out months in advance?

How many places sell season tickets by the thousands?

And where else have you ever seen HS tickets on Stub Hub? (Byrnes v Gaffney last year)

[Dr. Sak]

I have to stick up for PA as well. My alma mater is in what may be the best small-school division in the state, for football and basketball. Always amazing crowds, always amazing teams.

The same could be said all over the state. What it's produced is well-documented. A lot of the greatest QBs in history came from western PA. Berwick won a couple "national titles". With the addition of the Philly Catholic League to the PIAA, and teams like Gateway, McKeesport, Parkland, etc getting some national competition...high school football is more than alive and well in the nation.

Where did you go to High School?

[Comey]

Trinity HS. D3 AA. Same division as Camp Hill, Steel-High, Milton Hershey, and Scotland. Easily in the best division in the state for mid-small basketball (AAA/AA). Football may be debatable, but I doubt it...Steel-High got pounded by Trinity (12-1) last year, lost three games within the division, and won the state championship easily behind Jeremiah Young, who will, barring injury, crush the state rushing record (he put up 3400 yards and 41 TD last year, if I recall correctly).

I did go to Cumberland Valley until my sophomore year, when I transferred because CV was too damn big.

[cuervo72]

Heh...I just pieced together that the offensive coordinator for Maryland was the QB for my high school, graduated the year before I did.

Football - The University of Maryland Terrapins - Official Athletic Site (http://umterps.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/franklin_james01.html)

[GoldenEagle]

I'd nominate Panola County MS for the discussion, the amount of college talent that comes out of that school is sick.

Minor correction. It is South Panola High School. I played against them the one year I played high school football.

[Doug5984]

Not sure who said it earlier- but I agree with them that Louisiana has great talent (especially when you look at per capita), but the passion is definitely not the same as it is over in Texas, don't get me wrong- we love high school football, but it's not like it is in some spots in Texas.

We do hate seeing great talent like Joe McKnight leave the area though- I would've loved to have seen him a tiger uniform.

[Buccaneer]

... but Cali does produce the most studs. i would like to see the D1 player production stats

Check per capita.