The Prestige

[Front Office Midget]

Amazing.

Anyone?

[mrsimperless]

Haven't seen it.

However I'm officially setting the over/under on posts until a spoiler at 15.

[Danny]

I go with the under, I say by post 7

[cschex]

I'm going to see it, knowing that despite being a rather large departure from the book (which is incredible), I have enjoyed all of Nolan's films and I think the cast is frist-rate. I'll be seeing it this weekend.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

How does this compare to the Illusionist? Aren't they the same movie somewhat? No spoilers please.

[Front Office Midget]

I never saw the Illusionist... I don't see many movies.

I read some reviews afterward, and some were negative and I can see where they were coming from. The movie relies heavily on "twists"... but that's why I love it. It's single-minded, pretty much only dealing with 2 magicians obsession to get better than the other... but that's why I love it.

Basically, it kept me thinking the whole way through, which is good. I was never bored at all. I read some reviews that said the movie offered no emotional hooks to get you involved... but I felt completely submersed in what was going on. But yeah... basically, it's full of twists and secrets and trying to get you to figure out what happened or why it happened. It's one of those. I loved it.

[Coop]

I really want to see this but nobody i know watns to go :-\ I'll probably have to go by myself. ugh

[samifan24]

I really enjoyed this film. I'd give it four stars. All of that said, my thoughts on this film and The Illusionist.

I enjoyed The Illusionist but enjoyed The Prestige more. I thought the leads put in strong performances in both films. They are different films, though. The Illusionist is more about romance while The Prestige is more about a rivalry.

If you liked Christopher Nolan's other films, you'll like The Prestige. If you enjoy films which make you think and watch closely, you'll probably like The Prestige. It's a film of twists, some you'll see coming and some you definately won't but all in all I found The Prestige to be an enjoyable and engrossing period piece which rewards its audience's patience.

[Maple Leafs]

We saw this one over the weekend and really enjoyed it.

Unlike other "twist" movies, I didn't feel like this one was all about the twist. It could have ended ten minutes early and still been a great movie. It also didn't feel as manipulative as some twist movies do -- maybe that's because of the whole "magic trick" theme, and the way the movie basically tells you what it's going to do in the first few minutes.

No spoilers here so I'll avoid details, but the movie plays a very subtle trick on the audience. There's an element of the movie that seems poorly done and detracts a little from the believability. Only after the movie's ended do you realize that the "bad" film-making was actually an intentional misdirection to keep you from figuring out the bigger trick. Really well done.

[rkmsuf]

Hopefully jb has seen this and can offer some input on the topic.

[SunDevil]

I saw it last week and enjoyed it. That is the second good movie with Bale, I have high hopes for the new batman movie.

[vex]

Saw it this weekend. Great movie, I thought my mind was going to explode with all the twists though.

[Swaggs]

I saw it last week and enjoyed it. That is the second good movie with Bale, I have high hopes for the new batman movie.

"The Machinest" with Christian Bale is a really good, kind of under the radar, movie. If you are a Bale fan, you should check it out.

[cubboyroy1826]

Saw it on opening weekend and thought it was okay but nothing really special. Some good twists and solid acting but just felt afterwards it was okay.

[Peregrine]

I just came back from seeing it and thought it was really good, great movie overall.

[terpkristin]

I was going to see it on Friday, but just as the previews were ending, my phone vibrated in my pocket and sadly, it was work. I ended up having to go back into work and missed the movie. It's still on my "to see" list.

/tk

[kingfc22]

Saw it on Sunday night and loved it. I'm still thinking back to remember what happened early on in the movie and trying to tie it in with the ending.

[Raiders Army]

Hopefully jb has seen this and can offer some input on the topic.

LOL. *slow reaction*

[Maple Leafs]

Apparently those who have seen it a second time say there's a ton of stuff in there that will have you slapping your head, including one really obvious clue that the wife and I both missed but which someone else here PMed me about.

I guess when a movie tells you to "watch closely", you should.

[Ironhead]

Whoa...I was not ready for the Bowie.

[gkb]

I just saw this and thought it was very good. Spoiler Alert: Scarlett Johansson is a hottie!

[samifan24]

I just saw this and thought it was very good. Spoiler Alert: Scarlett Johansson is a hottie!

While Scarlett is hot, I found Rebecca Hall's performance as Sarah to be terrific to the point that it overshadowed Ms. Johansson.

[JeeberD]

Apparently those who have seen it a second time say there's a ton of stuff in there that will have you slapping your head, including one really obvious clue that the wife and I both missed but which someone else here PMed me about.

I guess when a movie tells you to "watch closely", you should.

I don't know if I'll get a chance to see it again in the theater. Can you PM me the clue?

[Neuqua]

Saw this, unfortunatly I pretty much figured out the twist as the movie progressed.

I give it a 3.5/5

[Front Office Midget]

I saw it again. Caught a bunch of stuff I had missed. Could you PM that major hint? Just to see if I missed something else.

I missed something major the first time through.

[samifan24]

I saw it again. Caught a bunch of stuff I had missed. Could you PM that major hint? Just to see if I missed something else.

I missed something major the first time through.

PM sent.

[Raiders Army]

Watched the movie last night. There were several things that took me until this morning to figure out...and some things that I didn't realize until I read The Movie Spoiler's spoiler. Can we talk about spoilers yet?

[Fouts]

Finally saw it and enjoyed it. Good stuff.

[jeff061]

Good movie. I didn't much care for Hugh Jackman or his trick, but Chris Nolan is easily my favorite director out there and could probably shine a turd to my liking. Christian Bale was great.

I figured the twist out half through as well, though I was hoping I was wrong about Jackman's. They really didn't try to hide it, I agree with Maple Leafs in that it was not meant to define the movie. I would have been fine if they didn't explain them away at the end and left it more open to interpretation.

[BrianD]

Good movie. I didn't much care for Hugh Jackman or his trick, but Chris Nolan is easily my favorite director out there and could probably shine a turd to my liking. Christian Bale was great.

I figured the twist out half through as well, though I was hoping I was wrong about Jackman's. They really didn't try to hide it, I agree with Maple Leafs in that it was not meant to define the movie. I would have been fine if they didn't explain them away at the end and left it more open to interpretation.

After watching this movie (and being a big fan of Momento and Batman), I immediately informed my wife that we are going to the theater to see everything else Nolan does.

There wasn't anything in this movie that kept me in the dark until the eventual reveal, but the storytelling was very well done. There is a major difference between being predictable and setting a good foundation for future events.

[jeff061]

I've heard some people speak badly about Insomnia, being slow I guess. But that flick just clicked with me, I loved it. Best job Pacino had done in a decade.

[samifan24]

Chris Nolan is easily my favorite director out there. Christian Bale was great.

I agree. I'll watch anything Nolan does and I just watched Bale in "The Machinist" and was very impressed.

[Drake]

Watched this last night as well. I was still thinking about it this morning, which is always a good sign in a movie.

[Tigercat]

Sort of spoilers, thinly veiled to not reveal to an accidental reader:

Although I saw both secrets to both tricks in this movie coming a mile away, what proves this movie is good is that even if you realize the secrets well in advance, the suspense keeps you interested. The use of the journals was a key to that I think. (And trying to figure out what character knows/suspects what.)

I also really enjoyed the ethics behind "the device." As "the device" has been used in numerous scifi plots, I have often wondered about the ethics involved especially if it breaks down an original to make a new. So I really enjoyed the line towards the end about fearing using it.

[grisha]

Did anyone else think that the machine doesn't really "work", but is yet another illusion? (Strictly for that Batman guy)

If it is an elaborate illusion, doesn't Hugh Jackman ultimately win?

[Maple Leafs]

Did anyone else think that the machine doesn't really "work", but is yet another illusion? (Strictly for that Batman guy)

If it is an elaborate illusion, doesn't Hugh Jackman ultimately win?
There are quite a few theories that the "surprise ending" isn't the real ending at all, and there's another layer of deception. Some people say they've seen hints at this in the final scene (including an air bubble that would seem to change what we think we've just seen).

Personally, I don't buy it. I think we know everything that happened when we walk out of the theatre.

[grisha]

I just think that the machine is so far outside of what the movie was up until then, that we can't really take it at face value.

Plus, aren't we relying on the diary for most of the machine information (scenes)? I would think that we can't take that at face value either.

[Maple Leafs]

I think the movie tells you pretty directly that the machine is real and it works. Remember the scene with the cats and hats, which was also the first scene of the movie, although we didn't know what it meant then. Unless it's all an elaborate misdirection (not out of the question for this movie), I think we're supposed to accept it as legit.

[grisha]

Wasn't the scene with the cat and hats being read by Batman in Wolverine's diary? (the same diary that Wolverine purposely gave to Batman to read)

I don't think it's too far of a stretch to think that he might have embellished the story of the machine a bit.

[Swaggs]

I just saw this movie and really enjoyed it quite a bit.

My only question: ***SPOILER ALERT***








Are we sure that the "clones" are not the ones being teleported and the "real" Danton is not the one going through the trap door. In line with the hats and the cat(s), I had assumed that the original stayed where it was, while the clone was teleported out into the woods. And, if not, then wasn't it the Danton that was standing inside the teleportation machine, when he first tested it by himself, the one that grabbed the gun and shot the teleported Danton (meaning that the first clone killed the original Danton)?

As I said, I enjoyed the movie, but I couldn't quite wrap my head around this part.

[Maple Leafs]

My only question:
I think the idea is that there is no clone, they're both "him". This is explained in a few spots. There's the scene where he asks which hat is his, and Bowie says they all are. There's also the later scene where he tells Bale than the trick took courage because he never knew whether he'd be the one in the stands or in the tank.

However, I think (could be wrong) that it was the teleported Danton who shot the original.

[Swaggs]

That keeps me thinking about it even more. It makes me wonder about the origins of the machine and about Bale and his "twin," as didn't they indicate that Bowie/Tesla had created a machine like this before? Probably thinking too far into it, but I guess that is good for a movie. I don't recall seeing any childhood pictures of Bale and his twin during the flashback (which would have ended the speculation on whether his twin was a birth twin or a clone).

[jeff061]

My interpretation was the same as Maple's. Really I didn't like that whole aspect of the movie though. Everything else was solid gold.

[grisha]

**********MAJOR SPOILER ALERT**********
(Highlight to see text)

Here's how I think it went down:

1. Batman gets his diary "stolen" and purposely leaks information to Wolverine about the Tesla machine to trick him into trying to get one of his own built.

2. Tesla tricks Wolverine into spending his money on a worthless machine.

3. (Here's where I fill in some blanks with what I've gathered so far from these characters) Wolverine realizes he's been tricked, and convinces/pays Tesla to build him a machine that is simply for show.

4. Wolverine takes Batman's trick and runs with it in his diary, pretending that the machine actually works. (Sort of an f-you to Batman, knowing that Batman is going to read this diary)

5. Wolverine runs a rediculous amount of shows with his fake machine, still using that body-double, with the purpose of convincing batman that the machine is real. (Giving Batman enough time to catch all the little clues purposely left by Wolverine)

6. The show where Batman shows up, Wolverine sets up the body-double to fall into the box. (The look of shock on the guy in the box sort of seems like proof he didn't know it was coming)

7. After Wolverine is shot by Batman2, he sticks with his story that the machine worked. He talks about it all being worth it because of the look on the audience's faces, the same look that Batman2 has. With Batman convinced that the machine is real, Wolverine ultimately wins the "contest" between them. Wolverine had the best trick.


************** END SPOILER*************************

[Swaggs]

Grisha,

Good theory, but you are forgetting about all the tanks that had been handled by the blind workers. They were all stored in the warehouse that burned down at the end.

[grisha]

Grisha,

Good theory, but you are forgetting about all the tanks that had been handled by the blind workers. They were all stored in the warehouse that burned down at the end.

Those are the fake clues left to convince Batman it's real.

[grisha]

Remember, one of the main themes of the movie was Wolverine learning about the power of total commitment to a trick. Once he completely committed his life to tricking Batman, he ultimately won.

[Maple Leafs]

I remember visiting a few forums after seeing the movie to see what people were saying. There were many, many people who had theories similar to what grisha is arguing here.

I'm still not sold. I think the movie lays out a puzzle, then gives us the answer at the end. I think the answer is reasonably clever, satisfying, and makes sense. I don't really see the need to look further for something else hidden in the background. In fact, I'd disregard that idea completely if it wasn't for the movie's "look closer" theme which could lend itself to some sort of additional trick.

One point to make, though:
The look of shock on the guy ... seems like proof he didn't know it was coming
If you believe the storyline that the movie seems to be telling us, the guy absolutely would have been shocked.

[gstelmack]

I haven't seen the movie and probably won't end up doing so, but I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread as everyone refers to the characters as "Batman" and "Wolverine"...

[st.cronin]

I haven't seen the movie and probably won't end up doing so, but I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread as everyone refers to the characters as "Batman" and "Wolverine"...

Yeah, its really warping my idea of what the movie is probably about. Very cool.

[grisha]

That's what makes this movie so good. You can view the ending two totally different ways, and it still kicks ass.

[Maple Leafs]

That's what makes this movie so good. You can view the ending two totally different ways, and it still kicks ass.
There was an interesting discussion here a few years back about "tricky" movies and how many people find them generally dissatisfying. The feeling was that many of them don't hold up well once you know the "trick".

For example, The Usual Suspects has a great ending, but the rest of the movie doesn't work anymore once you know it. Vanilla Sky tries to have a trick ending but it just comes out of nowhere and leaves you feeling cheated. The Sixth Sense, I'd argue, works perfectly because once you know the trick (and assuming you don't figure it out early, which everyone but me claims they always do) you watch the movie again and you're watching a different, equally good film. Memento too, to some extent.

I think The Prestige does a good job of stopping just short of being tricky for the sake of deception. The ending works just well enough and the rest of the movie is good enough that you don't feel like you've been jerked around.

[BrianD]

Why doesn't The Usual Suspects still work? Half the fun of movies with a twist is going back to see how the story was told...watching everything to prolong the secret as well as everything that sets up the revelation.

[Maple Leafs]

Why doesn't The Usual Suspects still work? Half the fun of movies with a twist is going back to see how the story was told...watching everything to prolong the secret as well as everything that sets up the revelation.
I loved Usual Suspects... I still watch the ending on youtube every now and then. One of the all-time great film moments. But...

{Usual Suspects spolers below...}

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... the whole "twist" is that the narrator of the story has been making it up. You've seen the story through one character's eyes, and the twist is he was lying. So when you watch it again, you're not looking for little clues you should have seen the first time. There weren't any. The "twist" is that the entire narrative was wrong, which is actually pretty cheap. What saves it is the "reveal" is a.) pretty cool, and b.) so well done that you can forgive them.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I've read a similar theory that the machine didn't actually work, and it was all Wolverine tricking Batman4 that it worked. Good idea because of the use of the journals. But as was pointed out at another website, Wolverine shows the trick with the machine to the owner of the theater in order to get him to do his magic show there. That wasn't part of a journal retelling, and thus kills the "machine never worked" theory.

[Easy Mac]

I've read a similar theory that the machine didn't actually work, and it was all Wolverine tricking Batman4 that it worked. Good idea because of the use of the journals. But as was pointed out at another website, Wolverine shows the trick with the machine to the owner of the theater in order to get him to do his magic show there. That wasn't part of a journal retelling, and thus kills the "machine never worked" theory.

But by then, he had everything set up with the double, so it didn't really matter if it worked.

[Raiders Army]

If either of the two magicians were smart, they would've used the machine to duplicate Scarlett Johansen and had sex with two of her.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

But by then, he had everything set up with the double, so it didn't really matter if it worked.

There was clearly no double involved in the trick with the theater owner.

[Tigercat]

One problem with the whole machine not working concept is that there is obviously something in all those boxes, you can see bodies. And while the whole idea of that machine is out there for the time period, even more out there would be the legnths it would take to make a body double for as many as 100(remember, 100 shows was the limit, hinting that he only had 100 boxes) water boxes without the machine.

Furthermore, why would he go through the trouble hoaxing even all those tanks and bodies if he was certain that batman would die in jail and never see it all?

You can make the argument that wolvie "won," but that argument is made based on Batman's earlier speech about the Chinese man being "fully dedicated" to his craft. Wolvie "won" because he killed himself god knows how many times just for the look on the audience goer's faces.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Furthermore, why would he go through the trouble hoaxing even all those tanks and bodies if he was certain that batman would die in jail and never see it all?


An excellent point that is the nail in the coffin of the "machine doesn't work" theory.

[Blade6119]

If you believe the storyline that the movie seems to be telling us, the guy absolutely would have been shocked.

Remember, michael caine told wolverine drowning was like going home...the look of shock is that its absolutely terrible. Thats why at the end of the movie he says he lied about the drowning.

I think you are all drastically over-thinking it...they told you what happened...he won because he was willing to die everytime.

[Drake]

If either of the two magicians were smart, they would've used the machine to duplicate Scarlett Johansen and had sex with two of her.

You just ruined the whole movie for me. This is so obviously true that both Wolverine and Batman can't be viewed as anything other than complete and total morons.

[grisha]

I've read a similar theory that the machine didn't actually work, and it was all Wolverine tricking Batman4 that it worked. Good idea because of the use of the journals. But as was pointed out at another website, Wolverine shows the trick with the machine to the owner of the theater in order to get him to do his magic show there. That wasn't part of a journal retelling, and thus kills the "machine never worked" theory.

Isn't the meeting with the theater owner coming from the diary that Batman was reading? It's possible that it might not have been 100% factually accurate.

[grisha]

One problem with the whole machine not working concept is that there is obviously something in all those boxes, you can see bodies. And while the whole idea of that machine is out there for the time period, even more out there would be the legnths it would take to make a body double for as many as 100(remember, 100 shows was the limit, hinting that he only had 100 boxes) water boxes without the machine.

Furthermore, why would he go through the trouble hoaxing even all those tanks and bodies if he was certain that batman would die in jail and never see it all?

You can make the argument that wolvie "won," but that argument is made based on Batman's earlier speech about the Chinese man being "fully dedicated" to his craft. Wolvie "won" because he killed himself god knows how many times just for the look on the audience goer's faces.

I'm not 100% convinced that all those tanks have bodies in them.

I know the theory has some holes in it, but no more than the theory that a machine that can make perfect copies of human beings, complete with memories, was made. Let's be honest, if you had to pick the most realistic theory, it sure wouldn't be the cloning machine one.

[grisha]

One last thing,

The theory that the machine doesn't work makes the movie far more satisfying to me. If I have to believe the thing works, it's not that great of an ending, in my opinion.

[BrianD]

One last thing,

The theory that the machine doesn't work makes the movie far more satisfying to me. If I have to believe the thing works, it's not that great of an ending, in my opinion.

I think the movie would have been even better if the machine didn't really work, but there is just no evidence that is the case. Every trick in the movie was explained...including this one. Wishing it to be different doesn't make it so.

[BrianD]

I loved Usual Suspects... I still watch the ending on youtube every now and then. One of the all-time great film moments. But...

{Usual Suspects spolers below...}

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.
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... the whole "twist" is that the narrator of the story has been making it up. You've seen the story through one character's eyes, and the twist is he was lying. So when you watch it again, you're not looking for little clues you should have seen the first time. There weren't any. The "twist" is that the entire narrative was wrong, which is actually pretty cheap. What saves it is the "reveal" is a.) pretty cool, and b.) so well done that you can forgive them.

I can certainly understand that viewpoint. I found it interesting how he crafted the story in such a way to make the inspector believe he was lying and got him to "turn" on the guy the inspector believed to be Soze. It was also interesting to see the narrator studying the room and using what he saw in his stories. It is true that we didn't have a chance to figure it out ahead of time (unless we assumed the answer since it would make for a cool ending), but the story was told very well.

[grisha]

I think the movie would have been even better if the machine didn't really work, but there is just no evidence that is the case. Every trick in the movie was explained...including this one. Wishing it to be different doesn't make it so.

I got the exact opposite from the movie. All the evidence and character development points to the machine not working. The only thing to point towards the machine working is the straight up, in your face, "LOOK! THIS MACHINE WORKS!" bit at the end.

[Shkspr]

I got the exact opposite from the movie. All the evidence and character development points to the machine not working.

Oh, well I can see how that would...huh?

Look, forget about the shot in the first ten seconds of the film that reveals that the machine works. Forget the thirty second stretch where Batman first meets his wife where not the method for not one, but both magicians' secrets are revealed. All you need to know is one thing.

If you write a story, and you need some scientific piece of mumbo jumbo, and you establish that Nikola Tesla created it, it works. End of discussion. The only thing that keeps it from being a movie cliche is not enough movies feature Tesla.

[BrianD]

I got the exact opposite from the movie. All the evidence and character development points to the machine not working. The only thing to point towards the machine working is the straight up, in your face, "LOOK! THIS MACHINE WORKS!" bit at the end.

That's just it though. Every trick in the movie was explained. The machine was explained by the fact that it actually worked and didn't have a trick. I would also say that the character development points to the machine working as well. The whole point was that you have to fully commit to the performance. Being willing to die each night lives up to that.

The only thing that makes this ending a little tough to swallow is that the whole movie was based in a physical reality that we understand and that makes sense with the historical setting of the movie. The machine was one fantastic element which takes us out of reality. Every explanation in the movie points to that fantastic element really being truth.

[SunDevil]

I actually agree with the notion that the machine worked.

But one thing I would like cleared up, something that maybe the whole movie really does not support, is the scene in the beginning of the movie showing all the hats. It right from the beginning leads the viewer to believe it worked. When you compare that with Michael Caine's character performing the magic trick for the little girl, and starting it out by showing the girl the bird and cage, it almost makes the viewer begin to think that just like the bird who survived the trick, maybe the whole machine was just a trick and never worked.

Remember there were two bird tricks in the movie. The first one where there are two birds with one bird being killed, and the "brother" surviving. The second one that involved Michael Caine either with Wolverine (the contraption backpack thing and two audience members holding the sides of the cage) and the one with the little girl, those bird's survived. One trick two different outcomes and results. Could this be applied to the disappearing man as well?

The first disappearing man involved either twin brothers or a body double, but both people survived. While the second disappearing man with the machine, involved one of them dying and only the "brother" or clone surviving or whoever. One trick with two different results.

That is why I think the machine worked.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Read the book. The machine, while a little bit different in the book, works.

[MikeVic]

Just watched this... really liked it, and liked reading through the discussion on here.

[Evil Afro]

I'm also pretty sure the machine worked.

It's a little disappointing that it worked. Writers don't seem to have a lot of imagination these days. (or they assume the audience wouldn't be able to figure it out)

[oliegirl]

I watched this last weekend and loved it...I want to watch it again but haven't had time yet. I thought the ending was great and it caught me off guard...I knew there was a twist coming and I had an idea that Christian Bale had a twin but I never put it all together.

I haven't seen The Machinist, but I've heard good things about it...it's definitely on my list of movies to rent. I think Christian Bale is a really good actor, maybe not Oscar winning actor, but he always delivers a solid performance...

[gstelmack]

I knew there was a twist coming and I had an idea that Christian Bale had a twin but I never put it all together.

You ruined this whole thread by not calling him "Batman"...

[oliegirl]

You ruined this whole thread by not calling him "Batman"...

Sorry :( But to me he'll always be the guy from American Psycho...you are just lucky I didn't mention how completely smoking hot he is ;)