Ping: Icy

[Izulde]

I know you're in Toledo, but what can you tell me about Sevilla? It's down to Sevilla and Galway, Ireland for a study abroad semester in Spring 08.

[Icy]

I haven't ever been in Galway(Ireland) but i have a few times in Sevilla.

It depends on what you want. I can't compare universities or studies but i can tell you that if you want party everyday for the whole day and night without stop, a nice weather and sun (maybe even too hot closer to the summer), awesome food, etc then Sevilla or other Spanish city should be your choice. Spanish life is also cheaper than Ireland if i'm not mistaken.

You will really enjoy your experience here in Spain and you can also do some tourism on weekends in the country. There is a high speed train from Sevilla to Madrid. At 300 km/h (185 mph) in 2:30 hours you can be in the center of Spain.

Here you got some info i just found:

Facts About Sevilla

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" align="left" height="0" valign="top">
</td> <td class="T1" align="left" height="0" valign="top" width="95%"> Size Sevilla Province: 14,001M square meters.
Population Sevilla Province: 1.585.000.
Population Sevilla Capital: 683.000.
Density: 113 inhabitants per square meter.
Mean Altitude: 12 m above sea level.
Average Temperature: 20 ºC (68ºF). Summer 35ºC (95ºF) and winter 15ºC (59ºF).
Hours of Sun a Year: +3000 hours.
Annual Rainfall: 42.0 cm a year.
Tourism: Over 2 million tourists visit Sevilla Province each year.
Distances To:
Cadiz: 125 km.
Granada: 258 km.
Malaga: 219 km.
Barcelona: 1.023 km.
Valencia: 697 km.
Madrid: 541 km.
</td></tr></tbody></table>

General Information About Sevilla

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="3" class="T1" align="left" height="0" valign="top"> Sevilla (Seville) is located 80 km. from the cost of Andalucia on the banks of the Guadalquivir a navigable river with contact to the Atlantic Ocean. It is the 4th largest city in Spain with more than 700.000 inhabitants and Capital of Andalucia (the most southern region of Spain). Within 2 hours drive from Sevilla you can reach Portugal and Granada and Malaga are also within a short reach. The town has a hot Mediterranean climate with more than 300 days of sun a year.
Apart from being the capital of Andalucia Sevilla is also the industrial center of southern Spain. The most important sectors are the chemical and pharmaceutical as well as the metal industry. The province of Sevilla has traditionally been an agricultural region and due to the climate with more than 300 days of sun it has an important production of citrus fruits and olives.

</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left" valign="top">http://www.spanish-town-guides.com/Sevilla%20Photo1.jpg</td> <td align="left" valign="top"> </td> <td class="T1" align="left" valign="top">The history of Sevilla dates back to the Tartessian civilization from the 9th century B.C. and has later been occupied by the Romans and the Moors. Many monuments from the different periods are still to be found all over Sevilla. Today Sevilla is a modern and dynamic city.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" class="T1" align="left" height="198" valign="top"> It has lately hosted international important events as the Expo in 1992 and the world championship in athletics in 1999 and is a one of the candidates to host the Olympic Games in 2012.
Every year Sevilla celebrates two important events, which are famous not only in Spain but all over the world. The first event is Semana Santa (Wholly Week) a religious festival with processions carrying images of the Virgin Maria or Christ. Two weeks after Sevilla celebrates 'La Feria de Abril', a weeklong town celebration in an open square with music, dancing, concerts, eating and drinking. Apart from these celebrations Sevilla has an interesting nightlife throughout the year and the people in Sevilla the 'Sevillanas' are known for spending all there free time in the streets or in the local bars or cafeterias.


Don't miss out on the tapas. The city is credited with the invention and has more than a thousand bars where the choice of food, is virtually unlimited, from seafood to ham and sausage and from vegetable to cheese. The Sevillians actually make a meal of. them, moving from bar to bar and trying one dish at a time.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Price Guide Sevilla

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="3" class="T1" align="left" height="52" valign="top"> The prices below are from January 2004 and are examples from reel establishments or services offered, but can still vary from place to place.</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td align="left" width="33">
</td> <td class="T1" align="left" width="233"> Baguette/ Bread
Can of Coke in a shop
Beer in a pub
Café in cafeteria
Lunch (meal of the day)
Dinner for 2 inc. wine
1 hour in an internet café
Tennis court 1 hour
15 min. taxi write
Hairdresser men
Hairdresser women
Cinema
Public bus transport
Stamps (within Spain)
Stamps (within EU)
Stamps (to the US)
Stamps (the rest of the world)
Local phone call (5min.)

</td> <td class="T1" align="left" width="213"> 0.40€
0.25€
2.00€
0.90€
7.00€
24.00€
2.00€
5.00€
4.20€
10.00€
18.00€
5.00€
0.95€
0.25€
0.47€
0.78€
0.99€
0.30€</td></tr></tbody></table> Going Out at Night in Sevilla

If you like going out at night Sevilla is the perfect place to be. It is said about the people in Sevilla that they spend more time in the streets and the local bars than in their homes. Sevilla is also full of different types of establishments, which make it possible for everybody to find something they like. You can find everything from typical Spanish tapa bars to disco clubs in the more than 1000 bars and restaurants registered in Sevilla.
Spanish nightlife in general starts very late no matter if you are going out for dinner or for 'fiesta'. Restaurants tend to start serving dinner at 20.00 until 23.00/24.00 and bars normally don't get busy until after 24.00.
Eating Out
In Sevilla you can find a great number of different restaurants from small traditional Spanish tapa bars to international fast-food chains and exquisite restaurants.
Depending on your appetite and taste there are different opportunities, which can be recommended. If you are not very hungry or just want to grab something to eat while socializing the many tapa bars in the city center of Sevilla (especially the areas Santa Cruz and Triana) can be recommended. In a tapa bar you can get a variety of snacks (hot and cold, meat or vegetarian) and also enjoy a drink in the same place. The 'tapeo' is a typical Sevillian phenomenon and is a great way to try a number of different Andalucian specialities.
If you want to go out for a nice dinner we can recommend the area around the bullfighting ring and the river where you can find a great number of Spanish and international restaurants.
Bars and Discos
Although the town of Sevilla is full of bars in every single street the nightlife is still divided in different zones. The district of Santa Cruz can be are recommended for the first drink of the night. This area has a traditional Spanish atmosphere with a lot tapa bars and smaller establishments. Many of the bars in Santa Cruz close pretty early (for Spanish standards) at around midnight.
Another popular zone especially during the summer is La Triana along the river. Here you can find numerous open-air bars and terraces overlooking the river. There are also many discotheques open all night in this zone. Along the river you can also find the more fashionable and trendy bars and discos in the territory of EXPO '92.
The park of Maria Luisa is an active zone for going out at night. The old pavilions used for the Iberian-Latin American Exposition of 1929 are today converted into dance and tecno bars where the party goes on until the early morning.
In the area around the Iglesia del Salvador you can find Spanish youngsters every Thursdays to Saturday practising the classic "botellon" (people meet and buy drinks, ice and cups in the nearby shops and then drinks and chats in the square).

Here you got some photos, it's a really beautifull city.

http://www.spanish-town-guides.com/Sevilla_Photos_Sevilla.htm

[Icy]

Let me know if you have specific questions and i'll answer them tomorrow, it's 2:30 am here and i go to bed.

[wade moore]

Geeze Icy, you could have at least given him some detail in your answer... ;)

[BigDPW]

That was a very weak description of Sevilla ICY... Could you maybe expand on that a little...

[Izulde]

Thanks, Icy! :) If I think of anything specific, I'll PM you with the questions.

[Passacaglia]

I bet either place would be cool. When I was in Madrid three years ago, I really wanted to see Seville, but just didn't have time.

[Icy]

Oh, one very important thing, the language. Of course in Ireland English is the main one while in Spain you can be lucky if you can find somebody that speaks English enough to have a little conversation. In the bars etc they know the basic to serve you as they are used to tourists, but the people in the street etc will have big problems to talk with you in English or won't be able at all. Also the movies in TV or at the cinemas are translated to Spanish, and not with subtitles but the voices that you hear are not the real ones from the actors but from Spanish actors that translate them to Spanish.

If you are going to stay with other foreign students, that won't be a problem but if you are going to stay only with Spanish ones, it could be a problem. Also the university classes are in Spanish of course, unless you are going to attend to a private English university (if there are any there).

[Izulde]

Oh, one very important thing, the language. Of course in Ireland English is the main one while in Spain you can be lucky if you can find somebody that speaks English enough to have a little conversation. In the bars etc they know the basic to serve you as they are used to tourists, but the people in the street etc will have big problems to talk with you in English or won't be able at all. Also the movies in TV or at the cinemas are translated to Spanish, and not with subtitles but the voices that you hear are not the real ones from the actors but from Spanish actors that translate them to Spanish.

If you are going to stay with other foreign students, that won't be a problem but if you are going to stay only with Spanish ones, it could be a problem. Also the university classes are in Spanish of course, unless you are going to attend to a private English university (if there are any there).

Seville includes a home stay with a family that includes meals and two free loads of laundry a week and liberal arts courses in English (I'm assuming at the English language university built in 1997?).

That being said, I think I could pick up Spanish fairly quickly. Although my only real foreign language proficiency is in German (I've forgotten most of what little Russian I knew), it should be easier to acquire another language after the first. :) I'll be looking into a new language in either case, as in Galway I intend to study one of the Celtic languages (most likely Gaelic as that particular region is the most Gaelic of Ireland).

That's helpful to know about language, though. Thanks :)

[Izulde]

Ouch. After looking at the costs, Galway's out... but my university has an agreement with CEA, which would afford me the opportunity of Florence and Aix-en-Provence... and I love Italy and southern France.

So now there's Seville, Florence, and Aix-en-Provence to consider!

[bulletsponge]

does Icy work for the Seville tourist department?

[Icy]

does Icy work for the Seville tourist department?

Heheh nah, i just love my country and want everybody to visit it :)

If you want me really excited, then ask me about my home city, i can write for hours :D

[cartman]

Ouch. After looking at the costs, Galway's out... but my university has an agreement with CEA, which would afford me the opportunity of Florence and Aix-en-Provence... and I love Italy and southern France.

So now there's Seville, Florence, and Aix-en-Provence to consider!

If you think Galway was expensive, wait until you see the costs in Florence!

[Icy]

If you think Galway was expensive, wait until you see the costs in Florence!

Agree, i have been in Rome and i can say that Italy is so expensive, at least compared with Spain.

[Izulde]

Very good to know about cost of living! It's been 12 years since I was in Rome, so my memory's naturally hazy. :)

It's looking like Sevilla based on financial reasons. The program's half the cost of Florence and includes meals (and 2 free loads of laundry besides :D) I figure even given Sevilla's remoteness relative to a lot of Europe, I can still travel to the places I have interest in visiting and/or re-visiting and still come out ahead.

One question I have, Icy. How easy is it to get around Sevilla if you don't drive a car or ride a bike? I know that was one of the attractions of Florence for me; that it's nice and compact so walking places is easy.

[Izulde]

Icy, since you did such a nice job with Sevilla, I'd like to hear your opinions on Granada. :)

After looking over the course selection in Sevilla, I became quite disgruntled as there's no English language Spanish literature courses. Enter Granada, which offers both the Islamic Spain history course I'm interested in and Spanish lit courses in English.

[Icy]

Oh Granada, i'll write some more later but it's the only city in Spain besides Toledo that both me and my wife would move for living right now. We have been there a lot of times and even my barcherlors party was there 3 years ago. I higly recomend it, one of the best student's cities in Spain. I'll compile some info and will post it later.

[Izulde]

Thanks, Icy. :)

One cool part about the Granada option: It includes a side excursion to Toledo! :D (along with some other cities: Sevilla, Gibraltar, a couple of towns I can't recall offhand)

[finketr]

Heheh nah, i just love my country and want everybody to visit it :)

If you want me really excited, then ask me about my home city, i can write for hours :D

Isn't toledo an old rust belt city just south of detroit?

[Icy]

Isn't toledo an old rust belt city just south of detroit?

Nah that is the fake one :)

[Icy]

Ok, Granada. It's one of the most beautiful cities in Spain. I prefer it to Sevilla as it's a smaller city so as you said before, you can walk it all. It's the student's city in Spain with Salamanca. Everybody wants to study there and not because the university but because the thousands of students there that are everywhere at any time, in bars, discos, partying in the streets etc. There are also thousands of nice looking girls!

It's also a cheap city to live in as student, there are tons of places where to eat really cheap. It's also the best city for going out for "tapas". Every time you ask for a drink in a tapas bar, they put a plate full of food for free and the bars compete to offer the best free food. When i went there for my bachelors party, we ate from that free food the 3 days there, just paying the beers. For example, you pay a beer and you are given a typical sandwich for free, you pay another beer and you are given a plate full of fries, you pay another one and are given another typical Spanish food and that way until you are full of food or totally drunk and have only expent like $10 :) Those bars are known as you can't ever have same "tapa" served twice because the incredible variety, you would be really drunk before tasting all them. And all them for free!

The night party is incredible, thousands of chicks everywhere, students parties in every bar etc. Also the nice weather helps a lot to party in the street.

Of course not all is partying (as student you probably don't agree, i'm oder now). It's a really monumental city, the Alambra is one of the most famous ones in Spain, it's the old Muslims palace with incredible gardens. There are also tons of old churches, a great cathedral, etc. The second best cultural and historic city after Toledo where i live.

More good stuff, the beach is at 1 hour driving from Granada and the weather is warm the whole year so you can enjoy it a lot. Even more good stuff, the best Spanish sky station is also at 1 hour driving from Granada. Thousands of miles of great snow during the winter and spring. I have been skying there and it's nice as you can sky under a great shining sun and with just a T-Shirt. My friends still go there once per year to sky.

Man, don't lose this chance, you are going to love it as all the students do, it's the students paradise and you will make tons of friends there.

After my impressions, here are some facts from some online sources:

Facts About Granada

Size Granada Province: 12,531M square meters.
Population Granada Province: 790.000.
Population Granada Capital: 275.000.
Density: 63 inhabitants per square meter.
Mean Altitude: 662m above sea level.
Average Temperature: 15ºC (73ºF).
Sunny Days a Year: 250 days.
Annual Rainfall: 61.7 cm a year.
Tourism: Over 2.5 million tourists visit Granada Province each year.
Distances To:
Malaga: 129 km.
Sevilla: 256 km.
Madrid: 434 km.


General Information About Granada

Granada is located in the eastern part of Andalucia (Southern Spain) at the foot of the Sierra Nevada Mountains only 100 km away from the Mediterranean Sea. The town is also located near Sevilla and Malaga and it's within a 4 hours drive of Madrid. It is one of the eight regional capitals of Andalusia and the town has a population of nearly 300.000. Granada has a great diversity in its climate from a sunny Mediterranean summer to rain and snow in the winter.

The most important industrial sectors in Granada are the agricultural and the tourism industry. The many mountains in the province of Granada makes it a good location to produce Olives, as it is one of the only agricultural products that can grow in these conditions. In the part of Granada closer to the Mediterranean Sea there is also a large production of tobacco and sugar. Apart from the above industries Granada town is know for its craftsmanship producing handmade quality products such as guitars, pottery, board games and other products in wood.


The history of Granada is one of the most fascinating of Spain. The town has been settled by moors for nearly 8 centuries and was the last Moorish town to be conquered by the Christians in 1492. This interesting history is still very visible in the town where you can find famous monuments like Alhambra and Generalife (fortress and palace (see photo)) or the zone Albaicin with its mixture of typical Mujahardin and Spanish architecture.

Granada is also a popular university towns with more than 60.000 students a year, which is about 20% of the total population of the town. The high percentage of students in Granada makes the atmosphere in town very cheerful and with a very active nightlife everyday of the week.

Going Out at Night in Granada

If you like going out at night Granada is the perfect place to be. The many students living in Granada makes the atmosphere by night very cheerful and active everyday of the week. Apart from the students there are many tourist visiting Granada all year around. Granada is full of different types of establishments, which make it possible for everybody to find something they like.
Spanish nightlife in general starts very late no matter if you are going out for dinner or for 'fiesta'. Restaurants tend to start serving dinner at 20.00 until 23.00/24.00 and bars normally don't get busy until after 24.00.
Eating Out
In Granada you can find a great number of different restaurants. The diverse cuisine influenced by its history and geographic situation between the mountains and the Mediterranean Sea and the many tourists visiting the town have made Granada a paradise for people who like international and exquisite food. Apart from the traditional Andalucian restaurants serving seafood or other typically dishes from the South, you can find restaurants who only serves local Granadinian food, Moorish restaurants and a number of international restaurants.
Depending on your appetite and taste there are different opportunities, which can be recommended. If you are not very hungry or just want to grab something to eat before going to a bar we can recommend the many tapa bars around Alhambra and in the Albacin neighbourhood. There you can get a variety of snacks (hot and cold, meat or vegetarian) and enjoy a drink in the same place. During the summer most tapa bars have a terrace where you can enjoy your food outdoor.
If you want to go out for a nice dinner we can recommend the area between the Plaza Nueva and Gran Vía where you can find a great number of Spanish restaurants. If you like to try Moroccan food the street Caldereria can be recommended.
Bars and Discos
In Granada you can find all the bars and discotheques you desire. There are everything from traditional Spanish bars, reggae bars, funk bars, jazz bars to gay and techno clubs. The different places to go out at night in Granada are divided by zones.
In the area around the street Pedro Antonio de Alarcón Spanish youngsters starts around 22.00 Thursdays to Saturday with the classic "botellon" (people meet and buy drinks, ice, cups in the nearby shops and then drinks in the square). After 23.00 the bars and during the summer the terreces starts to get busy and carries on until about 6.00 am in the morning.
Plaza Nueva is an area that attracts the more mature public. Here you can find a number bars with live music like jazz, blues or rock. Another area for the more mature public is the Cuervas de Sacramonte were you can find a great number of Flamenco clubs with Flamenco dancing and singing of a very high quality.


Some picks from Granada

http://www.travelinginspain.com/granada.jpg

http://www.travelinginspain.com/granada5.jpg

[Icy]

And if you want to know how Toledo (Spain) looks, click these links (too big images to post here).

All those picks are from the old part, at the other side of the river is the new part with modern buildings etc.

If you like art and mid age culture you need to visit my city.

http://www.fotosdetoledo.com/f/pics/Panoramica-Toledo.jpg

http://www.coloredhome.com/toledo/toledo.JPG

http://www.coloredhome.com/toledo/toledo003.JPG

http://fotos.euroresidentes.com/fotos/Toledo/images/Toledo%20(1).jpg (http://fotos.euroresidentes.com/fotos/Toledo/images/Toledo%20%281%29.jpg)

http://www.coloredhome.com/toledo/toledo011.JPG

http://www.wesleyan.edu/madrid/fotos_archivadas/DSCN1571.JPG

http://www.coloredhome.com/toledo/toledo010.JPG

http://www.coloredhome.com/toledo/toledo020.JPG

http://www.coloredhome.com/toledo/toledo067.JPG

http://www.coloredhome.com/toledo/toledo108.JPG

http://www.coloredhome.com/toledo/toledo106.JPG

http://www.visitaguiadatoledo.com/images/panoramica-vertical-toledo.jpg

[JAG]

I visited Seville twice (in '98 and '00) and Grenada once. They are both great cities, very cheap, easy to get around with just walking, great weather. The pics above of Grenada are absolutely spot on (I'm pretty sure the second picture is almost a replica of one I took). Very beautiful area with snowcap mountains not far at all, same with the beach. Seville is a bit bigger than Grenada, but still small enough to get through a good part of the city on foot. One of the things I loved doing in Seville was just stopping in just about any bar, having a drink, and having whatever their tapas were. Very inexpensive and very tasty. I'm not a seafood person, but the seafood there doesn't taste like anywhere in the US that I've experienced.

If you're going to be around there in the April / May timeframe, you'll have a chance to catch a weeklong celebration (a market celebration or something like that) where basically no one sleeps, the women wear these elaborate dresses, and people dance about 24 hrs / day. If you're going to be there during the summer, be prepared for 120-130 degree days (if one can actually prepare for that).

Icy gave you a lot more detail, but just thought I'd throw in my own limited experience and say you're going to have a great time no matter which you choose of Grenada or Sevilla.

[Izulde]

Beautiful, both in the write-up and in the pics of Toledo! :)

I think you've pretty much sold me on Granada :)

I greatly look forward to the excursion to Toledo. Now I just hope that I can get accepted into the Granada program! :)

[Izulde]

I visited Seville twice (in '98 and '00) and Grenada once. They are both great cities, very cheap, easy to get around with just walking, great weather. The pics above of Grenada are absolutely spot on (I'm pretty sure the second picture is almost a replica of one I took). Very beautiful area with snowcap mountains not far at all, same with the beach. Seville is a bit bigger than Grenada, but still small enough to get through a good part of the city on foot. One of the things I loved doing in Seville was just stopping in just about any bar, having a drink, and having whatever their tapas were. Very inexpensive and very tasty. I'm not a seafood person, but the seafood there doesn't taste like anywhere in the US that I've experienced.

If you're going to be around there in the April / May timeframe, you'll have a chance to catch a weeklong celebration (a market celebration or something like that) where basically no one sleeps, the women wear these elaborate dresses, and people dance about 24 hrs / day. If you're going to be there during the summer, be prepared for 120-130 degree days (if one can actually prepare for that).

Icy gave you a lot more detail, but just thought I'd throw in my own limited experience and say you're going to have a great time no matter which you choose of Grenada or Sevilla.

Thanks for the input! :) Granada looks like the best option, based on the things I'm looking for in a city and in terms of English language courses that are being offered.

[finketr]

What about Malaga, Icy?