POL - Were you asked for ID at your polling station?

[lordscarlet]

Myself and my two coworkers that voted (Me in DC, one other in DC, and one in VA) were not asked for any identification when we filled out our ballots.

[Subby]

Our polling place is set up pretty well. Two lines (A-K, L-Z). You walk up, hand them your ID, state your full name and address. They find you on the list, then read your name and address to the person next to them who finds your name on another list and gives them a voting number. You then get your ID and your voting card. You then stand in line for one of four WinVote machines.

[gstelmack]

North Carolina doesn't seem to ever ask for a driver's license or any other id. State your name and address, sign the ballot, and you're off.

[albionmoonlight]

North Carolina doesn't seem to ever ask for a driver's license or any other id. State your name and address, sign the ballot, and you're off.

"

[lordscarlet]

Our polling place is set up pretty well. Two lines (A-K, L-Z). You walk up, hand them your ID, state your full name and address. They find you on the list, then read your name and address to the person next to them who finds your name on another list and gives them a voting number. You then get your ID and your voting card. You then stand in line for one of four WinVote machines.

When I was in Falls Church in '04 that's how it went for me. But this time it was "What's your last name?... First name?" and handed me my ballot.

[wade moore]

When I was in Falls Church in '04 that's how it went for me. But this time it was "What's your last name?... First name?" and handed me my ballot.

Those DAMNED Diebolds ruining elections!

[Young Drachma]

I showed ID, but that's because I'd never in my jurisdiction before. I was registered in this state, but I had to show proof of my new address. Otherwise, they weren't asking for ID. Just for your address. Of course, this is Wyoming.

[SnDvls]

voted by mail 2 weeks ago so no

[Arles]

Voting was very painless for me. Much like Subby, we had two lines by alphabet and they moved very quick. One guy checked ID while another matched your voter ID and had you sign. Then, you got your scantron ballot and voted. I would guess it took me about 10 minutes to go from end of the line to voting booth.

[Peregrine]

North Carolina doesn't seem to ever ask for a driver's license or any other id. State your name and address, sign the ballot, and you're off.

Yep, I've never been asked for id to vote in North Carolina.

[wade moore]

Seriously though.. how can people be so upset about Diebolds when this is going on?

[albionmoonlight]

Seriously though.. how can people be so upset about Diebolds when this is going on?

I don't know if "upset" is the right word, but I am concerned about both. I think that the voting data should be stored in at least two formats in at least two places, and I think that every voter should have to do more to prove their identity than say their name and sign a piece of paper.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Voting was very painless for me. Much like Subby, we had two lines by alphabet and they moved very quick. One guy checked ID while another matched your voter ID and had you sign. Then, you got your scantron ballot and voted. I would guess it took me about 10 minutes to go from end of the line to voting booth.

I had a similar experience. It took no time at all really. Tragedy almost struck when the guy in front of me said his vote wasn't registered by the machine. I am not sure if it did or not, but the lady assured the guy it did because the machine "made a noise." It was good enough for me. I was the 80th person to vote in my little voting district.

[wade moore]

I don't know if "upset" is the right word, but I am concerned about both. I think that the voting data should be stored in at least two formats in at least two places, and I think that every voter should have to do more to prove their identity than say their name and sign a piece of paper.

Agreed on all accounts...

It just seems weird to me that there is so much conspiracy theory around the Diebolds and this isn't talked about at all.. I think they are both problems, one not necessarily moreso than the other..

FWIW, I'm probably naive (again), but I had no idea this went on - I've always been ID'd.

[Ryche]

There is no requirement to see an id when voting in Minnesota if you are already registered in the precinct and have voted in a previous election. Generally they'll ask for your name and address and if that is on the roster you are allowed to vote.

[lungs]

I had to re-register in a district I hadn't voted in since 2000. They did nothing to confirm who I was or that I lived in the correct township. They told me I needed my ID, but only for my driver's license number which I filled out myself with them never checking anything.

Now I'm going to get all my friends and a bunch of illegal aliens to vote.

[Subby]

I guess the question is...how can this be systematically abused to the point where it makes a difference? I just have a hard time envisioning this taking place on a wide-spread basis.

[wade moore]

I guess the question is...how can this be systematically abused to the point where it makes a difference? I just have a hard time envisioning this taking place on a wide-spread basis.

It's a valid point - and I think why most people criticize the Electronic Voting.

I think this can be abused widespread if someone wanted to, it would just take the cooperation of more people than the electronic would.

That's why I say they should both be a concern.

[wade moore]

Dola: And this one just seems like it can be fixed SOOOOOOO easily.

[Butter]

My wife was not asked for her ID in Ohio, where they're supposedly checking them this year.

[fjvieane]

I always just present my id out of habit, but I was asked 2x. I am in LA County California

[Bubba Wheels]

Listening to O'Reilly going to the polls today. Woman from Northville Mi calls in. Apparently her new sister-in-law, 1 month here from Brazil and not a U.S. citizen...is on the voter rolls in this lady's district. Northville is pretty upscale and would probably vote majority Republican, so if its that blatant there I can only imagine what's going on in the much more Democratic strongholds elsewhere.

[Subby]

I think any time you take one example and extrapolate it to such a degree, you run the risk of making a serious mistake.

[Butter]

Listening to O'Reilly going to the polls today. Woman from Northville Mi calls in. Apparently her new sister-in-law, 1 month here from Brazil and not a U.S. citizen...is on the voter rolls in this lady's district. Northville is pretty upscale and would probably vote majority Republican, so if its that blatant there I can only imagine what's going on in the much more Democratic strongholds elsewhere.

I'm sure when she got there she was threatened with deportation by the Republican pollsters, so it all balances out.

[SelzShoes]

I guess the question is...how can this be systematically abused to the point where it makes a difference? I just have a hard time envisioning this taking place on a wide-spread basis.

While I was working for the county Dems in 04 (previously worked/voted Nader in 96 and 00) there were workers--relatives of the elected county officials--on Election Day whose job it was to cart ESL homeless men to various "safe" voting sites to cast multiple votes. Add in the vote buying (which several people are in federal prison because of) a party can 'create' enough votes to tip a close election.

I should note that the county government is extremely corrupt here and does not necessarily reflect a national party mindset.

[JPhillips]

I read a recent study that showed ID fraud was miniscule in voting. It happens and will happen no matter what ID law is passed, but there is no evidence that this is a serious problem nationally. Also, voter ID laws don't apply to absentee ballots which are far easier to tamper with.

A strict photo ID requirement just makes it harder for some people to vote without doing much to combat voter fraud. Its no accident that Republicans are generally in favor of a plan that would cost Democrats votes.

[vtbub]

We had to sign for our absentee ballots, but no ID required.

[Bubba Wheels]

I'm sure when she got there she was threatened with deportation by the Republican pollsters, so it all balances out.

More likely, the Democratic pollsters gave her a bunch of absentee ballots for her family still down in Brazil.

[Fastcat]

Did not ask for ID here in the UP of Michigan, just put name, address and sign ballot slip. Though when they verified it in the book I did see my signature and they did compare that.

[John Galt]

More likely, the Democratic pollsters gave her a bunch of absentee ballots for her family still down in Brazil.

Bubba Wheels, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Bubba Wheels]

Bubba Wheels, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Methinks he doth protest too much.

[Subby]

More likely, the Democratic pollsters gave her a bunch of absentee ballots for her family still down in Brazil.
I thought this was going to be an interesting discussion.

Thanks for setting me straight.

[albionmoonlight]

Methinks he doth protest too much.


Well ME thinks that he just appreciates fine cinema.

[Warhammer]

Voter fraud might not be a huge issue, until it actually impacts an election.

Here in Memphis, we had an election to replace a state senator (John Ford I believe) indicted in the Tennessee Waltz scandal (bribes). Ophelia Ford won, but she only won by 13 votes. At least 15 votes were found to be dead people who all voted for Ford. The resulting bruhaha was stopped only because the Republican candidate gave up the lawsuit because if he did not, he would be ineligible to run in THIS election.

What was funny was how one city councilman strongly suggested that Ford should be proclaimed the winner regardless of fraud because it has always been a democrat in the position...

[Bubba Wheels]

Well ME thinks that he just appreciates fine cinema.

Could be, in paper yesterday was an article that Republicans preferred movies like 'Chronicles of Narnia" and Democrats liked 'edgier' stuff like 'Crash.' Guess I missed the one in question, and missing no sleep over it.

[wade moore]

Bubba Wheels, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Doesn't this belong over in the cultural references thread? ;)

[lordscarlet]

I guess the question is...how can this be systematically abused to the point where it makes a difference? I just have a hard time envisioning this taking place on a wide-spread basis.

See: Chicago. For years (still?) they had people voting in place of people that were deceased.

[wade moore]

I read a recent study that showed ID fraud was miniscule in voting. It happens and will happen no matter what ID law is passed, but there is no evidence that this is a serious problem nationally. Also, voter ID laws don't apply to absentee ballots which are far easier to tamper with.

A strict photo ID requirement just makes it harder for some people to vote without doing much to combat voter fraud. Its no accident that Republicans are generally in favor of a plan that would cost Democrats votes.

This is a sincere question, not trying to bait you at all or anything - wht do you mean that voter ID laws make it harder for people to vote - in particular those voters that would normally vote Democrat?

[Coder]

I think you should allow UN-inspectors to cover the election to make sure that everything's done properly...

:D

*runs for cover*

[Butter]

More likely, the Democratic pollsters gave her a bunch of absentee ballots for her family still down in Brazil.

Hey, good one. By the way, Dick Cheney called, he wants his sense of humor back.

[cartman]

I think you should allow UN-inspectors to cover the election to make sure that everything's done properly...

:D

*runs for cover*

I was a little surprised at the vehement opposition to allowing the vote inspectors to observe the elections. Not so much for the sake of the US, but what better place to train them than the supposed best example of democracy, the USA? If we want them to make sure elections world-wide live up to our standards of voting, shouldn't they learn firsthand how we do it here?

[Bubba Wheels]

See: Chicago. For years (still?) they had people voting in place of people that were deceased.

Well, this is the prototypical case-study on the matter. JFK won the 1960 election only because a handful of key districts in Illinois and Texas (read: Daily and Johnson) went his way. Later voter rolls showed scores of dead/fictional people had voted, some multiple times.

Nixon was set to contest it, ala Gore, until some Republicans stepped forward and suggested that course of action could also bring some GOP races into question. Nixon relented and the rest is, well, business as usual.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This is a sincere question, not trying to bait you at all or anything - wht do you mean that voter ID laws make it harder for people to vote - in particular those voters that would normally vote Democrat?

Having just endured several rounds of this argument here in Georgia, I can probably fill in that blank for you.

Poorer voters, which tend to vote overwhelmingly Democrat, are less likely to have any form of photo ID. They are also less likely to have ready access to transportation to acquire any new form of ID that might be introduced.

There's additional finer points but that's the nutshell of the claims of those who oppose tightening voter ID requirements.

[Bubba Wheels]

Hey, good one. By the way, Dick Cheney called, he wants his sense of humor back.

You live in Ohio, 'nuff said! Go Blue!!!!

[wade moore]

Having just endured several rounds of this argument here in Georgia, I can probably fill in that blank for you.

Poorer voters, which tend to vote overwhelmingly Democrat, are less likely to have any form of photo ID. They are also less likely to have ready access to transportation to acquire any new form of ID that might be introduced.

There's additional finer points but that's the nutshell of the claims of those who oppose tightening voter ID requirements.

Interesting...

I guess in my bubble it never occured to me that there is any substantial portion of the US population (besides say homeless and illegal immigrants) that do not have photo ID.

It sure seems like there are a lot of ways to deal with that imo.

And not to pull to much of a tangent, but it seems that if they can't afford to go get a photo ID, they can't afford to go vote (I know, the [insert party here]'s bus them - so, have a big busing to go get ID's then).

[lordscarlet]

I read a recent study that showed ID fraud was miniscule in voting. It happens and will happen no matter what ID law is passed, but there is no evidence that this is a serious problem nationally. Also, voter ID laws don't apply to absentee ballots which are far easier to tamper with.

A strict photo ID requirement just makes it harder for some people to vote without doing much to combat voter fraud. Its no accident that Republicans are generally in favor of a plan that would cost Democrats votes.

But electronic voting fraud has been proven to be widespread?

[JPhillips]

Wade: The short answer is people without IDs tend to be poor and the poor tend to vote more Democratic. Immigrants, Native Americans and students tend to either not have IDs or have IDs that don't match their current address, which in some states is enough to deny your right to vote. Checking IDs at the poll is also an added time issue that extends the duration which people must leave their homes or jobs, which is harder for the working poor.

And like I said earlier, there is very little evidence that this is a big problem. Its certainly easier to tamper with absentee ballots, but since more Reps than Dems vote via absentee the same people screaming for IDs will say nothing about absentee fraud.

Personally I'd like to go to nation-wide vote by mail. Oregon has done this for years and it seems to work well with a small fraud margin. In general I'm in favor of things that make voting easier not more difficult. Regardless of whether I agree with a person's ideology, I always favor more participation in the political process.

[Butter]

Interesting...

I guess in my bubble it never occured to me that there is any substantial portion of the US population (besides say homeless and illegal immigrants) that do not have photo ID.

It sure seems like there are a lot of ways to deal with that imo.

And not to pull to much of a tangent, but it seems that if they can't afford to go get a photo ID, they can't afford to go vote (I know, the [insert party here]'s bus them - so, have a big busing to go get ID's then).


The idea is that it's the equivalent of a poll tax, as photo ID's cost money.

However, in Ohio, they've skirted that by allowing utility bills to count as ID. I don't know, I don't really like the requirement personally, but I don't know how many people it really affects.

[JPhillips]

Lordscarlet: My problem with electronic voting has to do with error and fraud. Look around today and see all the instances of electronic booths not working or programmed incorrectly. They simply aren't reliable. If we don't want to go to a national vote by mail, we need to use the most reliable and secure method available, optical scanning.

[cartman]

But electronic voting fraud has been proven to be widespread?

There's a big difference. The electronic fraud has proven to be almost untraceable in many instances. So hard proof is pretty hard to get. With the other forms, there is a paper trail to be followed. There is a signature that is left behind that could be traced.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

See: Chicago. For years (still?) they had people voting in place of people that were deceased.

Are you saying that the dead don't have a right to representation? If they died for this country or had their estates taxed after their deaths, then by God, they should still have the right to vote!

:)

[cougarfreak]

That's shocking to me. Here in little ole Kentucky, I've always had to show ID.

[wade moore]

There's a big difference. The electronic fraud has proven to be almost untraceable in many instances. So hard proof is pretty hard to get. With the other forms, there is a paper trail to be followed. There is a signature that is left behind that could be traced.

"could be traced" and are ever traced is a big difference...

And, I don't sign anything when I vote fwiw. So, if I wasn't ID'd, there'd be NO trail for me whatsoever.

[JonInMiddleGA]

but it seems that if they can't afford to go get a photo ID, they can't afford to go vote (I know, the [insert party here]'s bus them - so, have a big busing to go get ID's then).

That was proposed as part of the solution in Georgia, was rejected out of hand by the opponents of the measure. So was making the ID's free for those unable to pay. No dice.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That's shocking to me. Here in little ole Kentucky, I've always had to show ID.

You have fewer electoral votes ;)

[wade moore]

That was proposed as part of the solution in Georgia, was rejected out of hand by the opponents of the measure. So was making the ID's free for those unable to pay. No dice.


I'm sure I'm not saying anything you haven't thought yourself, but - that screams of attempts to maintain fraud imo...

*sigh*.. this seems like such a no-brainer to me.

[JPhillips]

Here's some info on Oregon's vote by mail. Any folks from Oregon want to give their thoughts?

Oregon's Vote by Mail system is simple and straightforward. Ballots are mailed 14 to 18 days before an election to the registered address of the voter; the voter has two weeks to return the ballot through the mail or by dropping it off at official drop-off sites. The voter must sign the outside of the envelope (the ballot is sealed in a separate envelope inside) and that signature is checked against the signature on file with the elections division.

Voter participation: It increases turnout -- 84 percent of registered Oregonians voted this year.

Convenience: People can vote according to their schedule.

Education: People have time to study issues and candidates before voting.

Fraud protection: It has built-in safeguards that increase the integrity of the elections process.

Built-in paper trail.

Voter eligibility: Built-in time to resolve disputes.

Actual results are released when polls close as opposed to unreliable "exit polls."

Financial: It saves money.

[lordscarlet]

There's a big difference. The electronic fraud has proven to be almost untraceable in many instances. So hard proof is pretty hard to get. With the other forms, there is a paper trail to be followed. There is a signature that is left behind that could be traced.

You're now beyond my non-political-self's ability to participate in this argument. :) I find it unlikely that a signature is that verifiable. I presume you could check the previous year(s) of voting and compare. If it's not the same, throw it out. Outside of that, I don't see how having a trail of fraudulent ballots is any better than a non-trail of hacked electronic data. I really know nothing about the topic, though.

[wade moore]

The fraud protection is the thing I'm most curious about...

This seems pretty expoloitable on the surface to me, but I imagine they have to have some protection in place.

The whole the "signature is checked" thing... That's what I'm curious about.. how exactly is it checked? Is every single one checked? Are there experts checking them?

The other thing I wonder that you mention here JPhillips in general, is what about the groups of people (students, certain single working class, etc) that tend to move a lot - doesn't this take the process out of their hands a bit?

[lordscarlet]

Are you saying that the dead don't have a right to representation? If they died for this country or had their estates taxed after their deaths, then by God, they should still have the right to vote!

:)

OK, you got me. Does anyone need my grandfather's name that lives near Falls Church? :)

[Coder]

I never understood why people have to register to vote in the US.. here everyone over the age of 18 automatically gets a "voter card" sent to them by mail about 2 months before the election.

You then take this card to the polling station, bring your ID and once there you're asked to show both when putting your votes in a box. One person checks your card and ID, says it out loud, then another person looks through a list saying "check".

[cartman]

I presume you could check the previous year(s) of voting and compare. If it's not the same, throw it out.

That's exactly how it works, at least in most parts of Texas. There's where you sign the register when you vote, there's the signature on your voter registration certificate, and the signature on your voter registration application. Not sure how it is handled in other states

[larrymcg421]

There are a few states (Minnesota and Maine among them) that allow voter registration on the day of the election. I really don't see why this isn't nationwide. This isn't the 19th century. We don't need that much time to get voter lists ready. And this way, if there is ever any discrepancy with someone not being on the voter rolls, they can just then re-register at that point.

As for Voter ID's, I don't have a problem with them under three conditions:

1) Voter ID's are absolutely cost free.

2) All centers where you can get a voter ID have to be within a reasonable distance of everyone in the state.

3) Those that are a certain distance away from their nearest voter ID center are exempt from the voter ID requirement.

[JPhillips]

Here's some more info that I found.

When are ballots mailed?

Ballots are mailed between 20-22 days before election day.

They are mailed bulk and ballots are not forwaded.

What is in the ballot envelope?

Your ballot envelope also contains two envelopes - a return envelope and a secrecy envelope. And of course your ballot.

What do you do with the ballot?

Well vote obviously. But HOW?

Ballots are filled out with a #2 pencil and are the optical scanner variety (like the SAT test - you fill in ovals next to your candidate).

You fill out your ballot and then place it in the secrecy envelope.

You place the secrecy envelope in the return envelope. You sign the back of your return envelope swearing you are who you are.

You then can either mail the ballot in or drop it off at county elections offices or the numerous official drop off sites around the county like libraries, public squares, supermarkets etc.

For those looking for a more traditional voting experience can head to their county elections office where actual ballot booths are still available. The mechanics of the voting system are the same.

You have to have RETURNED your ballot by 8:00 p.m. on election day. Postmarks do not count.

Great you voted, but what happens then?

When your ballot is received at the elections office they first check your signature. All voter registration cards in Oregon are scanned into a statewide voter file. The county elections staff call up each ballot received to check the signature versus the registration card.

How do they know who you are? Next to your signature on the back of the return envelope is your basic info and a barcode so that they can quickly pull up your registration card.

If the signature matches then you are marked as voted in the system and the secrecy envelope containing your ballot is removed and stored in a secure location. The secrecy envelopes are NOT opened until election day.

If the signature does not match then the county elections officials calls you and ask you to come down to the elections office to double check your signature and verify the ballot.

When are the ballots counted?

As I previously stated they are stored in a secure location until election day. On election day they begin counting ballots at 8:00 a.m. This means that many times by the times "polls" close at 8:00 p.m results are almost immediately available.

[lordscarlet]

I never understood why people have to register to vote in the US.. here everyone over the age of 18 automatically gets a "voter card" sent to them by mail about 2 months before the election.

You then take this card to the polling station, bring your ID and once there you're asked to show both when putting your votes in a box. One person checks your card and ID, says it out loud, then another person looks through a list saying "check".

Obviously it's so that the incumbent officials can be sure that the districts are designed to maximize the number of seats held by their party. :)

Edit: And so that convicted felons can't vote for their elected officials.

[Subby]

I never understood why people have to register to vote in the US.. here everyone over the age of 18 automatically gets a "voter card" sent to them by mail about 2 months before the election.

You then take this card to the polling station, bring your ID and once there you're asked to show both when putting your votes in a box. One person checks your card and ID, says it out loud, then another person looks through a list saying "check".
Registering is very easy in this country. And when I say "this country" I mean Virginia.

[wade moore]

Registering is very easy in this country. And when I say "this country" I mean Virginia.

I had a government teacher in High School that advocated Virginia Seceding and becoming a monarchy.

I'm just sayin'...

[lordscarlet]

Registering is very easy in this country. And when I say "this country" I mean Virginia.

I was able to register in DC online.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, I'm off to go vote now.

I fully expect to be ID'ed, as I have been for the past several years consistently.

[Subby]

My post had more to do with my limited life experiences than anything else.

Not that Virginia doesn't kick ass... :D

[st.cronin]

I just went in and signed the roll, but considering that all the poll workers have been over to my house, it would have been weird if they had asked me for ID.

[ISiddiqui]

Yes, they asked for ID

[stevew]

There would have to be some sort of provision in place for the Amish who wish to vote. Since they do not have photo ID.

Which brings up an interesting work related conundrum as well. We're supposed to card anyone who appears to be under 27, and some of these Amish guys look hella young. I sell them their tobacco anyways.

[Joe]

I've never had to show ID to vote. Just tell them your name, and sign the sheet.

[TredWel]

I did not have to show ID, but I did notice that the sign-in book said "ID Required" next to some people's names. Not sure what you have to do to get flagged as ID required. My first guess it that you would have to show ID if you had recently moved into the ward, but I moved to a different ward a couple of years ago, and was not asked to show ID.

[Swaggs]

I voted in Durham, NC. My wife and I were each asked our name and addresses and then asked to sign our names. No ID required.

[Buccaneer]

Yes, we had to show the ID for them to check you off the voter's roll and then I got a paper ballot. I love that we keep things simple in our county.

[Tigercat]

In the suburbs here in Louisiana, we have always asked to show a picture ID or voting reg. card. I show both lately, because I still have an out of state license.

[pennywisesb]

I did not have to show ID, but I did notice that the sign-in book said "ID Required" next to some people's names. Not sure what you have to do to get flagged as ID required. My first guess it that you would have to show ID if you had recently moved into the ward, but I moved to a different ward a couple of years ago, and was not asked to show ID.

I wasn't ID'd here in California. Also, I think the answer to your question is that when its your first time voting (ie. 18 year olds) you have to show ID. After that, I don't think its required.

[JonInMiddleGA]

As usual, got ID'ed when I went to vote.