Maximum football

[jbergey22]

Sorry Guys,

I realize there is a huge thread on this game already, I'm not trying to duplicate a thread. It seems that thread just turned into a bashing the game thread. I do value your opinions and that is why I am even asking here. Apparently a beta version was released 3-4 weeks ago, has anyone played this game since the newest release, I had read that it compares to the FBPro series after the beta release. Any truth to this for any of you that have played it lately?

Thanks in advance!

[bbor]

LET THE GAMES.......BEGIN!!!!!

[QuikSand]

I had read that it compares to the FBPro series after the beta release.

To try to condense the conventional wisdom with a serious response...

The M-F game's feature list seemed to fuel this impression - it was indeed trying to be a game much like the old FB Pro series. Upon its eventual release (what I think you are calling the beta release was actually a commercial release, though the game was by most accounts not really done, even folowing many many delays), it became quicly clear to most purchasers and outsiders alike that the game was riddled with a variety of errors. By most accounts, certain limited parts of the game worked basically as intended (IO thikn this much is true), but there were a long, long list of things that needed to be remedied. The game engine, statistics, and league logistics were all deeply lacking, there is ample evidence of this both here and at the publisher's own forums.

The game appears to still be amidst patching, and I haven't read much lately on where things arte on that front. However, I have yet to read a single person who has posted that he is basically running the game in the fashion that you or I might think of as being more or less like FB Pro -- running games, players aging, rookie drafting, trades, gameplanning, and the like. It doesn't appear that the game is actually capable of doing these things, at least not yet. Many, probably most, have basically abandoned hope that it ever will.


If you can find a satisfied customer who will describe his game experience with M-F, and you still find that to be what you're looking for, then perhaps it's worth a look. However, given the awfully shaky foundation, it seems that doing your homework is wise on this one.

Hope that helps.

[JPhillips]

It is simply THE BEST format for creating fantasy uniforms.

[jbergey22]

Hope that helps.


It does in fact help. I have read about many of the errors(43 ints, abnormal sack totals, rushing stats, etc.) so I had pretty much givin up on this game. This Deft poster on the OOTP forums reported a new beta from Noeember being released and it made the game a huge upgrade from what it was so I had to ask.... Thanks

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=109599&page=6

[JPhillips]

This table comes from the latest patch. Although it looks a lot better, it sure doesn't look like it's doing a good job of NFL stats yet.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b43/nascarnetboggy/StatsBug.png

[Pumpy Tudors]

Did anyone ever figure out what the LTD stat is? Also, how in the world did the Jacksonville quarterback complete 9 passes for 11 touchdowns?

This shit is really customizable!

[jbergey22]

This table comes from the latest patch. Although it looks a lot better, it sure doesn't look like it's doing a good job of NFL stats yet.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b43/nascarnetboggy/StatsBug.png


LOL, THat is all I needed to see, how can something get messed up that bad. Thanks for this table,enough said!

[dbd1963]

Hirschberg is pretty good. Not only was every completion for a touchdown, two incompletions scored as well.

[JPhillips]

LTD is longest touchdown. Our guy Hirshberg hit a 201 yard bomb for a score that must have counted for three touchdowns.

[Antmeister]

Did anyone ever figure out what the LTD stat is? Also, how in the world did the Jacksonville quarterback complete 9 passes for 11 touchdowns?

This shit is really customizable!


LTD stands for Longest Touchdown. So as you can see they are possibly playing on a 250 yard field. :D

[QuikSand]

This table comes from the latest patch. Although it looks a lot better, it sure doesn't look like it's doing a good job of NFL stats yet.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b43/nascarnetboggy/StatsBug.png

So, does anyone else think that Daivd probably looks at a screenshot like that and says to himself "well, we sure got the sacks thing sorted out, that looks just fine now."

[sabotai]

Hurry up and close this thread!!! Hilarity that could be in the other thread is appearing here instead! We can't cost the other thread posts!

[cthomer5000]

moderators pls merge thread k thx

[Kodos]

LTD stands for Longest Touchdown. So as you can see they are possibly playing on a 250 yard field. :D

As you can see, Maximum Football is quite customizable.

[MikeVic]

So longest pass and longest TD are different? The longest pass stats look realistic...

[Pumpy Tudors]

I want Daivd to try his hand at the plane-on-a-treadmill puzzle.

[Ben E Lou]

This table comes from the latest patch. Although it looks a lot better, it sure doesn't look like it's doing a good job of NFL stats yet.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b43/nascarnetboggy/StatsBug.png

All jokes aside, are you kidding me??? That's absurd. This game was released, what, 9 months ago? How in the world can it still be THAT far off in key statistics??? Just wow.

[cartman]

So longest pass and longest TD are different? The longest pass stats look realistic...

At first blush they look correct. But take a closer look at Tortorella. 2 completions for 94 yards with a long of 43.

[Antmeister]

moderators pls merge thread k thx

I agree. Skydog please merge this thread before it gets to 20 pages.

[sabotai]

How in the world can it still be THAT far off in key statistics???

Do you really want an answer to this or is this a rhetorical question? :)

[BrianD]

All jokes aside, are you kidding me??? That's absurd. This game was released, what, 9 months ago? How in the world can it still be THAT far off in key statistics??? Just wow.

It would not surprise me at all if TD passes were not counted under the completed passes stat, nor would it surprise me if the longest pass was defined as the longest pass which didn't go for a TD (since that has its own stat).

Having a guy go 9-for-36 with 11 TDs probably means that he really went 20-for-36 with 11 TD and 9 non-TDs.

I'm not saying this makes sense, but the way things have been put together, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the intent.

[Antmeister]

It would not surprise me at all if TD passes were not counted under the completed passes stat, nor would it surprise me if the longest pass was defined as the longest pass which didn't go for a TD (since that has its own stat).

Having a guy go 9-for-36 with 11 TDs probably means that he really went 20-for-36 with 11 TD and 9 non-TDs.

I'm not saying this makes sense, but the way things have been put together, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the intent.

If that was the case, he would've fixed it when it was first pointed out a long time ago. I think that was first pointed out somewhere in the middle of the original Maximum Football thread.

[Galaril]

Thank God David W. designs PC football games and not airplanes;)

[BrianD]

If that was the case, he would've fixed it when it was first pointed out a long time ago. I think that was first pointed out somewhere in the middle of the original Maximum Football thread.

That is assuming he views this as a problem. Like I said, it may have been the intent.

[Toddzilla]

mrg thrd pls k thx

[Pumpy Tudors]

At first blush they look correct. But take a closer look at Tortorella. 2 completions for 94 yards with a long of 43.
Oh, jeez, I didn't even notice that. That's hilarious.

[cougarfreak]

Hey! A maximum football thread that I can read entirely before I reach retirement age!

[gstelmack]

I had read that it compares to the FBPro series after the beta release.

Correct. It compares to the recalled FBPro 98 (99? I forget) version.

[DeftRevisited]

However, I have yet to read a single person who has posted that he is basically running the game in the fashion that you or I might think of as being more or less like FB Pro -- running games, players aging, rookie drafting, trades, gameplanning, and the like. It doesn't appear that the game is actually capable of doing these things, at least not yet.

I wrote the original thread on the OOTP thread. To summarize my impressions of the game, what MaxFB has to offer that FOF never has and never will is the translation of spreadsheet into the actual interaction of players. Player aging, rookie drafting, trading, generic gameplanning have all been fine tuned in FOF. MaxFB, at this time, isn't intended to be FOF with a graphical front end. It's intended to be a coaches game, the same as Front Page Sports was before it became the NFL simulator that QuikSand refers to.

Where FBPro99 failed was in its translation to a 3D game, the in game portion of MaxFB does work and its stable. The play designer is flexible and integrated such that paths and nodes are in the 3D interface. This may or may not be the type of football simulator but I like it much better than a text game for football. It is NOT a finished product, and David knows that. But the beta version, I mentioned that came out in November added a lot of new functionality and fixed many of the things that plagued the initial release.

[Ragone]

I wrote the original thread on the OOTP thread. To summarize my impressions of the game, what MaxFB has to offer that FOF never has and never will is the translation of spreadsheet into the actual interaction of players. Player aging, rookie drafting, trading, generic gameplanning have all been fine tuned in FOF. MaxFB, at this time, isn't intended to be FOF with a graphical front end. It's intended to be a coaches game, the same as Front Page Sports was before it became the NFL simulator that QuikSand refers to.

Where FBPro99 failed was in its translation to a 3D game, the in game portion of MaxFB does work and its stable. The play designer is flexible and integrated such that paths and nodes are in the 3D interface. This may or may not be the type of football simulator but I like it much better than a text game for football. It is NOT a finished product, and David knows that. But the beta version, I mentioned that came out in November added a lot of new functionality and fixed many of the things that plagued the initial release.

When i want a qb who goes 9-36 for 600+ yards.. i'll play madden on all-madden difficulty or tecmo bowl.. k thx

[DeftRevisited]

When i want a qb who goes 9-36 for 600+ yards.. i'll play madden on all-madden difficulty or tecmo bowl.. k thx

These results are from quick simming which uses a different engine than the regular sim engine. This portion of the game is David's next focus.

[jbergey22]

These results are from quick simming which uses a different engine than the regular sim engine. This portion of the game is David's next focus.

How can he realistically expect anyone to pay for a game that has a stat engine that CANT happen(11 tds, 9 completions)? Even if the game was called backyard football these stats arent even realistic, that is how terrible it is programmed.

[RedKingGold]

I wrote the original thread on the OOTP thread. To summarize my impressions of the game, what MaxFB has to offer that FOF never has and never will is the translation of spreadsheet into the actual interaction of players. Player aging, rookie drafting, trading, generic gameplanning have all been fine tuned in FOF. MaxFB, at this time, isn't intended to be FOF with a graphical front end. It's intended to be a coaches game, the same as Front Page Sports was before it became the NFL simulator that QuikSand refers to.

How does Maximum Football translate a spreadsheet into actual interaction of players? What do you mean by this?

[VPI97]

Some stuff
As a programmer, it's nice to see someone take a 'half glass full' stance when it comes to evaluating software, but c'mon now. Maximum Football is a big, steaming pile of manure and Winters is stealing money from anyone who has bought that game. He makes the internet look bad, for goodness sakes.

These results are from quick simming which uses a different engine than the regular sim engine. This portion of the game is David's next focus.
Didn't he brag that writing a sim engine was easy and that he did it in the early 90's?

[Antmeister]

Didn't he brag that writing a sim engine was easy and that he did it in the early 90's?

Yes he did. That's what makes this argument funny. In fact here is the exact post:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1052158

...I really do not care what other independent guys do. I really don't. They are not building this game. They have their games with a few spread sheets and some dialog boxes. Big whoop. I did that in 1990...


It was in this entire thread discussing his idea of free agent drafting and how he placed salary fields in a database so third party developers can create their own trading, signing mods.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1044098&mpage=1&key=

So he mentioned how the other games are an 1/8th in complexity of his and that he did spreadsheet type games in 1990. Yet he can't even fix the simulated stats 9 months after release. This is the reason why the true Maximum Football thread blew up in the first place.

[DeftRevisited]

How does Maximum Football translate a spreadsheet into actual interaction of players? What do you mean by this?

What i meant was in MaxFB, I can design a trap play where the guard blocks and releases to the middle linebacker, the center and tackle block out, the pulling guard kick blocks the DE out, the TE blocks the outside linebacker, and the fullback lead blocks into the hole and it all works in concert. I can revise the play however I choose based on player talents and skills. I don't think FOF addresses this and never will.

I can understand many of the complaints about MaxFB, but they are mostly because its a mature text-based career audience reviewing a first run coach-oriented graphics football game with a developer that doesn't take to kindly to criticism. Many of the comments are made from ignorance and assumption from people that usually pride themselves for identifying both. I think as a football sim community we should try and support the entire market because in the end it will give us the best games. The market has been in a long pathos with only FOF and the lothesome Madden as viable options.

[Antmeister]

What i meant was in MaxFB, I can design a trap play where the guard blocks and releases to the middle linebacker, the center and tackle block out, the pulling guard kick blocks the DE out, the TE blocks the outside linebacker, and the fullback lead blocks into the hole and it all works in concert. I can revise the play however I choose based on player talents and skills. I don't think FOF addresses this and never will.

I don't know if you visit here that often, but many of the people who are here had played and loved Front Page Sports: Football. The reason for some interest in Maximum Football in the initial stages was because the the reasons you just listed. However, it where it is weak and why most people strayed from it was because the stas generated in the game are not realistic.

Hell, stats are not even a major importance for the game. Did you also notice that a lot of people were interested in EA Sports Head Coach? We all know that FOF doesn't focus on this stuff. But this think that this game is somehow the middle ground between Madden and FOF is ridiculous.

Madden and MaxFB are pretty close in terms of unrealistic stats and plays in which you can take advantage of the computer opponent. So to me, it doesn't do any good that I can revise a play based on my team's strength if I know it will take advantage of a computer opponent that doesn't compensate for it.

We already discussed stats and stat tracking, finances, free agency and drafting, etc. This is not something only a text sim uses. Good sports games utilize this stuff regardless of whether it has graphics or not.



I can understand many of the complaints about MaxFB, but they are mostly because its a mature text-based career audience reviewing a first run coach-oriented graphics football game with a developer that doesn't take to kindly to criticism. Many of the comments are made from ignorance and assumption from people that usually pride themselves for identifying both. I think as a football sim community we should try and support the entire market because in the end it will give us the best games. The market has been in a long pathos with only FOF and the lothesome Madden as viable options.
Uh....no. By the way, did you notice that we support other games. Some have graphics. Some have text. You may notice that Football Manager is probably the most popular sports sim. And guess what, they utilize both graphics (although minor) and text. You may also notice that there are other graphics games that we support like New Star Soccer and many others that I have listed in my signature.

Supporting the market would be great, but it has to first start with the developer. He has taken great strides in at least communicating with his customers and trying to iron out many bugs 9 months since it was released.

I mean, what he basically did was compare his game to already existing ones and saying that their complexity was no where near what his was. Why? Was that really necessary? Is that going to endear you to the PC sports community? And if it was something he did in 1990, why is he still having problems get the sim stats right. I mean that was 16 years ago and not very complex, so it shouldn't be a problem. Right.

[JPhillips]

I'd also point out that charging 50$ for the initial release was criminal.

[Ragone]

What i meant was in MaxFB, I can design a trap play where the guard blocks and releases to the middle linebacker, the center and tackle block out, the pulling guard kick blocks the DE out, the TE blocks the outside linebacker, and the fullback lead blocks into the hole and it all works in concert. I can revise the play however I choose based on player talents and skills. I don't think FOF addresses this and never will.



And on this play.. the rb runs for 111 yards and 2 scores. but fumbles twice along the way