JaMarcus Russell = Brady Quinn? [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

Leonidas

01-01-2007, 03:53 PM

OK, as much as the next person I think Brady Quinn is a tad bit overrated. And normally I also have decent respect for Peter King. But him saying JaMarcus Russell is expected to compete with Quinn for the #1 draft pick? C'mon. Let's get sober folks. Russell is talented, but very hot and cold. Not even one of the 2 best QBs in his conference (Leak and Ainge anybody?). This really struck me as a ludicrous statement.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/12/31/week17/3.html

"JaMarcus wants to go out and show the world how good he really is. He's going to have a great game. You can see he wants to outdo Brady Quinn.''
-- LSU wide receiver Dwayne Bowe, on teammate JaMarcus Russell, the junior quarterback who many pro scouts think is a lock to enter the April draft. If Russell does, he would compete with Notre Dame quarterback Quinn to be the first overall pick.

miami_fan

01-01-2007, 04:06 PM

I am not sure how ludicrous that really is. The physical talent is there and he would at the very least be competitive with Quinn at the combine/workouts. As last year's draft showed the person who is annointed as the #1 pick or the #1 QB does not necessarily go there.

JonInMiddleGA

01-01-2007, 04:07 PM

This really struck me as a ludicrous statement.

"Ludicrous" might even be an understatement. He saw three good defenses all season & lost to two of them. If he's a candidate for #1 overall pick, then this might very well be the weakest draft in NFL history.

Eaglesfan27

01-01-2007, 04:26 PM

I'll be shocked if Russell doesn't go #1 or #2. He's bigger than Quinn, has excellent ability to shake off tacklers, good mobility, and an extremely strong arm. So many physical tools are going to be hard for teams to pass by even if he needs work on reading defenses.

Atocep

01-01-2007, 04:33 PM

As much as I absolutely hate Peter King and think he's arrogant, name dropping, pompous jackass. I'd be suprised if Russell isn't in the top 5 and if he doesn't make a run at being the first QB selected. He's the type of guy that will blow people away at the combine and build up quite a bit of hype heading into the draft.

Easy Mac

01-01-2007, 04:51 PM

Matt Flynn > JaMarcus Russell

General Mike

01-01-2007, 05:01 PM

quinn: leinart :: russell: young

Tigercat

01-01-2007, 05:14 PM

Russell played one bad game this year, Florida. And in that game all of his INTs were balls tipped away from the WRs. Tennessee he was very up and down but he won that game in the end. Auburn he was handcuffed by horrible play calling. All the other games, which included some very good Ds, Russell was stellar.

Russell only has two holes in his game right now, he needs to hit WRs in stride more often, but that is a trait almost every college QB needs to work on; and he needs to do a better job recognizing LBs and safeties dropping back into coverage, again something all college QBs need to work on.

Russell played in the toughest conference in the nation for Ds, had a running game that was poor for more than half the year, and still Russell had one of the best QB ratings and completion percentages in the nation. On top of that add a 24-4 starter record and 8 4th quarter comeback wins.

So he plays like a reliable QB and has more upside than any QB in the country. He might have a better arm than any NFL QB right now. I don't see how you can argue him out of a top 5 pick.

Tigercat

01-01-2007, 05:21 PM

Dola, and I seem to remember another SEC QB who's biggest criticism was the inability to win some of the big games. Like Russell he had all the physical abilities though, and like Peyton Manning Russell is a great team leader on the field. (See winning record and 4th quarter comebacks.)

st.cronin

01-01-2007, 06:21 PM

I think Russell is a good prospect. I'm not sure I understand why he's more highly regarded than Chris Leak, but he does have maybe a stronger arm than anybody at the college level.

Tigercat

01-01-2007, 06:34 PM

st.cronin

01-01-2007, 06:37 PM

Leak doesn't have that great of an arm, and hes only 6 feet tall. He could end up being a good NFL QB, but nothing he does jumps out as a top QB prospect. He does look like a very good mid round QB if you can get him there. Troy Smith is a better version of Leak, IMO.

Ok, well maybe I should have said I don't understand why Russell is a better prospect than Troy Smith. I look at Russell and I see a big strong guy who can throw the ball out of the stadium. I look at Troy Smith and I see Drew Brees.

Raiders Army

01-01-2007, 06:41 PM

quinn: leinart :: russell: young

Quinn isn't even in Leinart's league. Maybe:

Quinn:Peyton Manning :: Troy Smith:Young

Tigercat

01-01-2007, 06:56 PM

If you put Troy Smith and Russell in front of accuracy throwing dummys, I have little doubt Russell will generally out duel Smith. If you put them both in front of a great college D, I have little doubt Smith will generally be more accurate and smarter with the ball than Russell. The NFL just doesn't believe that will necessarily translate to the NFL field, because it hasn't always translated. So they try to go with the tangible measures as much as possible, of which Russell has a lot of.

For a good comparison/contrast for Russell, look at guys like Leaf and Akili Smith. Russell has a better arm than both. Was better in college than both(considering Russell's competition especially.) And in college showed himself to be a better leader than both. Leaf and Smith are good examples of how much the NFL likes the measurables. I believe Russell showing a good bit of the intangibles already will cement him in the top 5, and will keep him from being too closely associated with big arm QB busts like that.

st.cronin

01-01-2007, 07:01 PM

wade moore

01-01-2007, 07:01 PM

Quinn isn't even in Leinart's league. Maybe:

Quinn:Peyton Manning :: Troy Smith:Young

So your claim is that Peyton isn't in Leinart's league?

Give me a break.

Eaglesfan27

01-01-2007, 07:25 PM

So your claim is that Peyton isn't in Leinart's league?

Give me a break.

I was taking it to mean that Leinart isn't as good as Quinn. If so, I'd agree with your final statement.

General Mike

01-01-2007, 07:48 PM

Quinn isn't even in Leinart's league.

Yeah. You're right. Quinn can't carry Leinart's jock.

Raiders Army

01-01-2007, 09:19 PM

So your claim is that Peyton isn't in Leinart's league?

Give me a break.

At least Leinart has won a National Championship (maybe two depending on how you count it). Manning and Quinn never have. What happened after Manning got drafted by the Colts? Did the Vols win a National Championship?

My point is that Quinn has never won a big game. He's an Ofer against USC and an Ofer in Bowl Games. I would be surprised if Notre Dame beats LSU.

wade moore

01-01-2007, 09:22 PM

At least Leinart has won a National Championship (maybe two depending on how you count it). Manning and Quinn never have. What happened after Manning got drafted by the Colts? Did the Vols win a National Championship?

My point is that Quinn has never won a big game. He's an Ofer against USC and an Ofer in Bowl Games. I would be surprised if Notre Dame beats LSU.

As of right now, Leinart cannot hold Manning's jock strap. I don't care what national championships he won.

Give me a frickin' break.

Raiders Army

01-01-2007, 09:25 PM

As of right now, Leinart cannot hold Manning's jock strap. I don't care what national championships he won.

Give me a frickin' break.

I agree that Leinart can't hold Peyton Manning's jock strap (why he would I have no idea...I think he prefers chicks like Paris). I was just tweaking the analogy. ;)

wade moore

01-01-2007, 09:26 PM

I agree that Leinart can't hold Peyton Manning's jock strap (why he would I have no idea...I think he prefers chicks like Paris). I was just tweaking the analogy. ;)

Well, your analogy needs a bit of work. It really didn't make sense for the argument you were trying to make.

Atocep

01-01-2007, 09:26 PM

At least Leinart has won a National Championship (maybe two depending on how you count it). Manning and Quinn never have. What happened after Manning got drafted by the Colts? Did the Vols win a National Championship?

My point is that Quinn has never won a big game. He's an Ofer against USC and an Ofer in Bowl Games. I would be surprised if Notre Dame beats LSU.

Do you seriously think Manning wouldn't have taken that USC team to a national title?

And are you saying Tee Martin was a better quarterback than Manning?

Raiders Army

01-01-2007, 09:29 PM

Well, your analogy needs a bit of work. It really didn't make sense for the argument you were trying to make.

Trust me, you're not the only one that feels that way. I'll probably feel the same way in the morning.

General Mike

01-01-2007, 09:36 PM

Do you seriously think Manning wouldn't have taken that USC team to a national title?

And are you saying Tee Martin was a better quarterback than Manning?

Some guys are winners, and some guys aren't. I'm not even talking about national championships and Super Bowls.

Manning isn't a winner.

wade moore

01-01-2007, 09:40 PM

Some guys are winners, and some guys aren't. I'm not even talking about national championships and Super Bowls.

Manning isn't a winner.

I went through this argument last year, i'm not going to go through it again this year besides to simply say that people who make this argument don't know what they're talking about.

dime

01-01-2007, 09:45 PM

Some guys are winners, and some guys aren't. I'm not even talking about national championships and Super Bowls.

Manning isn't a winner.

geez, if this board becomes like sports radio I will have to find a new site to visit. blegh.

Manning is more of a "winner" than Brett Favre.

General Mike

01-01-2007, 09:48 PM

geez, if this board becomes like sports radio I will have to find a new site to visit. blegh.

Manning is more of a "winner" than Brett Favre.

Where does Manning keep his Super Bowl ring?

Antmeister

01-01-2007, 10:09 PM

LOL....keep going guys. I love these debates. I feel like I am on the cast of Cheers or something. Where's Norm....I mean heybrad? And is Pumpy our Cliff Claven?

Leonidas

01-02-2007, 02:00 AM

I look at Russell and see Bryan Randall. Remember him? Big strong athlete with a rocket of an arm at Virginia Tech. I think he's on the practice squad in Tampa.

Deattribution

01-02-2007, 02:44 AM

Manning is not a winner in terms of the big game, but it isn't because of his HS play, or his college play, it's because everytime the game is on the line in the playoffs, or his team should win, they lose.

When Tom Brady needs 70 yards for the game winning FG, New England fans know he can get it, and opposing fans hope that their defense can do something big.

When Peyton Manning needs 70 yards for the win, everyone is just waiting for him to blow it.

With that said, of all the QB's discussed, Manning has done more winning than all of them combined - plus I have no idea how we went from JaMarcus Russell Quinn, to Leinart Quinn to Peyton Leinart.

The funny thing about Manning though is that he is his own worst enemy, if he wasn't so good, nobody would care that they always fell short (see everyone else without a ring) but because he's so good during the season it is always considered outrageous that he doesn't win the big game. He'd almost do himself some good to have a few terrible games (outside of the important one) just to lower expectations.

Tigercat

01-02-2007, 03:27 AM

I look at Russell and see Bryan Randall. Remember him? Big strong athlete with a rocket of an arm at Virginia Tech. I think he's on the practice squad in Tampa.

Umm, Randall was a rushing threat QB that was barely 6 feet tall(but stocky). Randall had trouble completing 50% of his passes his senior year. He did not rank that well nationally or in his conference in passing.

Russell is a 6'6 QB that is a pocket passer. He lead the SEC in completion percentage and was third in the nation in passing efficiency.

They are almost twins!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0783226926.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1056487070_.jpg

Raiders Army

01-02-2007, 07:08 AM

The funny thing about Manning though is that he is his own worst enemy, if he wasn't so good, nobody would care that they always fell short (see everyone else without a ring) but because he's so good during the season it is always considered outrageous that he doesn't win the big game. He'd almost do himself some good to have a few terrible games (outside of the important one) just to lower expectations.
Last thing I'll say on the subject (which probably won't happen, especially when somebody says this). Manning's like the prettiest girl in school that you get a date with. At the end of the evening she doesn't put out.

Which is more disappointing: the prettiest girl who doesn't put out or the ugly girl that you know won't?

dime

01-02-2007, 07:54 AM

this is so moronic. manning is not a "winner" because he's never had bill belicheck as his coach? that's some brilliant logic. if you swapped him and brady, the colts wouldn't score so much but would still give up a ton of yards. the patriots, however, would be about 15-1 right now.

manning has started from day one and has made the playoffs every year except his first (1998) and 2001. how can he not be a "winner?" are doug williams, trent dilfer and mark rypien "winners"? :rolleyes:

Eaglesfan27

01-02-2007, 10:18 AM

Umm, Randall was a rushing threat QB that was barely 6 feet tall(but stocky). Randall had trouble completing 50% of his passes his senior year. He did not rank that well nationally or in his conference in passing.

Russell is a 6'6 QB that is a pocket passer. He lead the SEC in completion percentage and was third in the nation in passing efficiency.

They are almost twins!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0783226926.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1056487070_.jpg

Great post. :)

Deattribution

01-02-2007, 06:22 PM

Last thing I'll say on the subject (which probably won't happen, especially when somebody says this). Manning's like the prettiest girl in school that you get a date with. At the end of the evening she doesn't put out.

Which is more disappointing: the prettiest girl who doesn't put out or the ugly girl that you know won't?

So........ are you saying Peyton didn't put out for you?

Huckleberry

01-02-2007, 08:10 PM

"Ludicrous" might even be an understatement. He saw three good defenses all season & lost to two of them. If he's a candidate for #1 overall pick, then this might very well be the weakest draft in NFL history.

That makes him different than Quinn how?

stevew

01-02-2007, 08:19 PM

Does Quinn fall all the way down to #16 and GB? I dunno if Tampa is ready to scrap the Chrissy experience yet, they just extended him. Cleveland needs a QB, but they would get one killed with their line play. Then you head down to Miami/Houston....not sure what either plans to do, but I don't think they will be drafting a Qb.

Just interesting, but if Russell is the first QB off the board, it could be a fascinating draft for the Golden Dome haters.

Huckleberry

01-02-2007, 10:13 PM

Chrissy. Ha ha. That's so funny. I never get tired of that one. I bet you'd stay at your desk all day with a ruptured spleen.

;)

Mr. Wednesday

01-02-2007, 10:32 PM

My brother cracked his spleen when he was 12 (practice for Little League) and he's amazed that Sims was able to move, much less play the rest of the game.

That said... I'm not sold on the guy. He never impressed at Texas.

Mr. Wednesday

01-02-2007, 10:33 PM

That makes him different than Quinn how?

Quinn saw four good defenses. :)

stevew

01-03-2007, 05:21 AM

Chrissy. Ha ha. That's so funny. I never get tired of that one. I bet you'd stay at your desk all day with a ruptured spleen.

;)

Honestly, I watch so little college football that I barely know which guys went where. I realize that Simms went to Texas, but honestly I never really knew what that whole Major Applewhite thing you guys talk about was.

stevew

01-04-2007, 07:54 AM

JaMarcus played pretty well last night. Seems like it would be a logical jumping off point to the NFL if he wants to. I think Al Davis will bite.

wade moore

01-04-2007, 07:56 AM

JaMarcus played pretty well last night. Seems like it would be a logical jumping off point to the NFL if he wants to. I think Al Davis will bite.

This seemed to me like a performance that could serve him the way Vince Young's did last year. He not only played well, but he played well on the national stage directly against the guy who is/was considered the #1 while Mr. #1 struggled. I think this game, deservedly or not, could very well vault him to being the first QB taken if he enters the draft.

ISiddiqui

01-04-2007, 08:27 AM

Yeah, the OP seems amusing in light of last night's game. Russell looked great, while Quinn played poorly.

Huckleberry

01-04-2007, 09:38 AM

That said... I'm not sold on the guy. He never impressed at Texas.

Actually, he did. I don't think it's possible to overstate how terrible our offensive line was while he was here. What he and Applewhite accomplished while quarterbacking those teams was amazing. Both of them.

RedKingGold

01-04-2007, 10:13 AM

Brady Quinn is way, way overrated. I would rank the QB's like this right now (assuming juniors come out):

1. JaMarcus Russell
2. Troy Smith
3. Brian Brohm
4. Brady Quinn

Quinn is a product of the media and Charlie Weis's QB friendly offense. People forget how bad he was in his sophomore season after he played well in his junior year.

Oilers9911

01-04-2007, 10:56 AM

Some guys are winners, and some guys aren't. I'm not even talking about national championships and Super Bowls.

Manning isn't a winner.

And here comes the no title = not a winner bullshit argument. Let's take Tom Brady and put him on the Arizona Cardinals. Do they win a Super Bowl? Hell no. Does that mean Brady isn't a winner? I don't think so. Anyone that decides someone is a winner or not based on championships alone is nearsighted and more likely a moron.

joyosects

01-04-2007, 11:10 AM

Not to rain on the Russell parade, but no one was rating him this highly until after last night, and Notre Dame's secondary didn't exactly make his night real difficult.

wade moore

01-04-2007, 11:13 AM

Not to rain on the Russell parade, but no one was rating him this highly until after last night, and Notre Dame's secondary didn't exactly make his night real difficult.

This thread was started on Monday.

ISiddiqui

01-04-2007, 11:46 AM

Indeed... to say no one was rating him highly before last night is simply false. I've heard Russell as #2 QB picked (if he comes out) for a few weeks now.

Eaglesfan27

01-04-2007, 12:35 PM

Not to rain on the Russell parade, but no one was rating him this highly until after last night, and Notre Dame's secondary didn't exactly make his night real difficult.

I've been high on him since early in the season and he has been vaulting up "media experts" board for weeks if not months.

johnnyshaka

01-04-2007, 01:28 PM

Give Quinn a break...his best receiver is a white guy.

;)

Mr. Wednesday

01-04-2007, 01:41 PM

Yeah, the OP seems amusing in light of last night's game. Russell looked great, while Quinn played poorly.
One was playing against a great defense, the other was playing against Notre Dame. :p

I've said before (and not all here, I don't believe) that I really do think a lot of Russell, but this sort of game is useless for head-to-head statistical comparison.