NCAA Selection Show

[Karlifornia]

I think this deserves it's own thread!

Come on, Stanford!

[st.cronin]

Florida goes to the midwest, and Ohio State goes to the south? How does that make any sense?

[Karlifornia]

Welp, UCLA has indeed blown their #1 seed. I get to see Kansas in the regional finals at San Jose if they hold serve.

[spleen1015]

Florida goes to the midwest, and Ohio State goes to the south? How does that make any sense?

:confused:

I have no idea.

[Karlifornia]

Florida goes to the midwest, and Ohio State goes to the south? How does that make any sense?

Good question.

[kcchief19]

And Kansas goes West while Carolina is in the East. Aside from Carolina getting what they want, this makes zero sense. Pooch screw #1 by the committee.

[spleen1015]

The way they do this sucks. I liked it much better when they just gave us the brackets out of the gate.

There will be a commerical before we get a bracket. Sheesh.

[Karlifornia]

The way they do this sucks. I liked it much better when they just gave us the brackets out of the gate.

There will be a commerical before we get a bracket. Sheesh.

Agreed. I've always hated this "Reveal the #1 seeds and then go to break" garbage.

[Karlifornia]

Old Dominion is in. Not good news for Stanford.

My first upset call is Davidson over Maryland. It sets off an alarm for some reason.

[Celeval]

I don't think that's a bad spot for GT as the 10 seed there... the matchup with UNLV has some history to it (1990 final four), and Wisconsin may be one of the better #2 matchups.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Finally, somebody decides my nerves deserve a break & the suspense for Ga Tech is over in the first segment. When I saw ODU, I feared the worst. Whew.

[Swaggs]

WVU is out.

Only one Big East team in that first region (ND) means that only 7 Big East teams got in.

[Neuqua]

Illinois had to be one of the last teams in, #12 seed. WOuld love to see them matchup against SIU, though I doubt Illinois is excited to see that.

[molson]

Florida goes to the midwest, and Ohio State goes to the south? How does that make any sense?

The NCAA tried to make it clear that the "regional name" designation doesn't matter in the least when they started calling regions by their city names "i.e. Atlanta Region". (Though I'm glad that's gone this year) Florida will be playing their first and second round games in the closest available site - New Orleans.

[SuperGrover]

And Kansas goes West while Carolina is in the East. Aside from Carolina getting what they want, this makes zero sense. Pooch screw #1 by the committee.

Umm, did you just see that bracket? I would GLADLY change places with Kansas right now. Marquette as an 8? Are you serious?

This will be fun.

[sterlingice]

I like KU's bracket, mostly. I think UCLA is the strongest #2 and Pittsburgh the strongest #3 but I'll take the rest of the path.

SI

[Karlifornia]

YES!!! Stanford gets in! The last team to be revealed. What the hell are you trying to do to me, CBS?

Beat Louisville.

[molson]

I was the ONLY Syracuse fan who thought they had reason to fear - now my fears have been realized.

Nobody was even talking about them on the bubble.

[RedKingGold]

The Big East got fucked. No Syracuse and only two of the top 16 seeds are from one of the best conferences in College Basketball

Duke got a freaking 6th seed! Such freaking ACC bias.

[kcchief19]

Billy Packer's got have a woody seeing the mid-majors get screwed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And now that the brackets have been revealed, it's time for the whining to begin.

edit to add: Complaints about Syracuse are not included in my observation about whining. I think they've got a legit gripe & should have gotten the Stanford slot (losing 7 of their last 11 should have doomed them).

[RedKingGold]

YES!!! Stanford gets in! The last team to be revealed. What the hell are you trying to do to me, CBS?

Beat Louisville.

[sour grapes]

Stanford did not deserve to get in over Syracuse or Drexel

[/sour grapes]

[Swaggs]

I think it kind of stinks that conference champions have to play in the "play-in" game. They should stick the last two at-large teams (but that would give the #1 seeds too hard of an opener probably) there or get rid of it.

[molson]

Syracuse ended with an RPI of 53 - that alone was enough to make me nervous.

Still, has a team with a 10-6 conference record ever been left out of the big east?

[Swaggs]

The Big East got fucked. No Syracuse and only two of the top 16 seeds are from one of the best conferences in College Basketball

Duke got a freaking 6th seed! Such freaking ACC bias.

I'm as big of a BE fan as there is, but I don't have much of a problem with only Pitt and Gtown getting a top 4 seed this year. This was not really a top heavy season in the Big East.

I think Syracuse belonged, though.

[kcchief19]

Another shot from CBS against anybody not in the eastern time zone -- Kansas State was perceived to be the ultimate bubble team and either in or out dpending on who you listened to, but they are even left off of CBS' "last teams out."

[Buccaneer]

I just saw the brackets and I thought my eyes were deceiving me. A lot of people had SU and Air Force in. :(

[kcchief19]

I think it kind of stinks that conference champions have to play in the "play-in" game. They should stick the last two at-large teams (but that would give the #1 seeds too hard of an opener probably) there or get rid of it.
I've been bangign that drum for years. I don't care if they insist on inserting the play-in winner at a No. 12 seed -- the teams who won automatic bids deserve to get to play in the NCAA tournament and not be relegated to second-class status.

[RedKingGold]

I'm as big of a BE fan as there is, but I don't have much of a problem with only Pitt and Gtown getting a top 4 seed this year. This was not really a top heavy season in the Big East.

I think Syracuse belonged, though.

I think top-to-bottom it was one of the strongest three conferences in the nation. Even teams like West Virginia and DePaul were to be feared just about every night. The ACC is not as deep as the media would have tou believe.

[RedKingGold]

I just saw the brackets and I thought my eyes were deceiving me. A lot of people had SU and Air Force in. :(

Air Force is another team that coulda, woulda, and should've been put into the tourney over Stanford.

[Karlifornia]

Air Force is another team that coulda, woulda, and should've been put into the tourney over Stanford.

Stanford wasn't even the last team in. Illinois, Old Dominion, and Arkansas were the last in. Plus, Stanford's late season slide could be attributed to not having their best outside scorer, Anthony Goods. Goods is back in the lineup.

[Arles]

I feel for Drexel. They beat Syracuse, Villinova and Creighton on the road. The committee says these mid-majors should play someone if they want to make the at-large, yet Drexel does that and gets stiffed.

Still, I was glad to see Stanford in. All their bad losses happened without a full team due to injuries and they had 5 wins against the Top 50 and 9 against the top 100.

[Arles]

dola, everyone's got ND as a sleeper. Winthrop is no slouch and Oregon may be the hottest team in college basketball.

[LloydLungs]

Like I mentioned on another thread, you just can't take Syracuse without taking Drexel. Drexel won at Syracuse and has a higher RPI than Syracuse. Looks like they elected to leave em both out. I was surprised Texas Tech gets in over Kansas State after KSU clobbered them yesterday.

[Swaggs]

I think top-to-bottom it was one of the strongest three conferences in the nation. Even teams like West Virginia and DePaul were to be feared just about every night. The ACC is not as deep as the media would have tou believe.

I agree with you, but I think the exception is that the ACC has a team like UNC this season, while the Big East does not.

Part of my problem with the Big East is that our teams do not get the chance to play one another with the league as huge as it is. My school, WVU, got clipped for not having beaten any of the teams ahead of it, but only got to play Pitt at home and did not get to play Louisville or Syracuse at all in the regular season. So, we lost to Pitt twice, lost to Gtown/Marquette/ND on the road.

I kind of like the big conference, but I'm not sure that a football/basketball split wouldn't be better for the football schools in hoops, as well.

[st.cronin]

Stanford wasn't even the last team in. Illinois, Old Dominion, and Arkansas were the last in. Plus, Stanford's late season slide could be attributed to not having their best outside scorer, Anthony Goods. Goods is back in the lineup.

I think using injuries as an excuse is the dumbest thing in the world.

[molson]

Like I mentioned on another thread, you just can't take Syracuse without taking Drexel. Drexel won at Syracuse and has a higher RPI than Syracuse.

That's reasonable.

A quick trip over to the Syracuse message board tells me I'm taking this remarkably well in comparison. I think the media was just wrong in claiming their lock status (which they did even before they won a 1st round tournament game).

To me, the blew it by dominating Louisville on the road for 37 minutes and then crapping it all away. Really, when you're 10-6 with 22 wins and left out, you're one win away.

[Young Drachma]

Air Force is another team that coulda, woulda, and should've been put into the tourney over Stanford.

Air Force shouldn't have lost to UW. Oops.

[Young Drachma]

Now let's see that NIT bracket! It's only 32 teams this year

[Karlifornia]

I think using injuries as an excuse is the dumbest thing in the world.

Who is making excuses? Stanford is in the tournament. The fact of the matter is that the committe looks at the team you'll be putting on the floor for the tournament, compared to an incomplete team from 2 months ago.

[Young Drachma]

Maybe the committee was trying to overcompensate this year by choosing mid-majors like Xavier.

[MylesKnight]

I feel for Drexel. They beat Syracuse, Villinova and Creighton on the road. The committee says these mid-majors should play someone if they want to make the at-large, yet Drexel does that and gets stiffed.


No kidding.

The N(B)C(S)AA Basketball Tournament it is becoming.

[JeeberD]

This year I will be rooting for my wife's ala mater.

Go UNT! Go Mean Green!!!







Too bad Memphis is going to beat them by 40... :(







Of course, Memphis is CUSA. They'll be the #2 team I root for! :)

[st.cronin]

Whats the difference between Syracuse and Duke?

[st.cronin]

Who is making excuses? Stanford is in the tournament. The fact of the matter is that the committe looks at the team you'll be putting on the floor for the tournament, compared to an incomplete team from 2 months ago.

I'm not pointing to anybody in this thread, but isn't it a known fact that the committee will forgive teams that have had to deal with injuries? I have an enormous problem with that.

[Swaggs]

Whats the difference between Syracuse and Duke?

You won't see a Jim Boeheim in a commerical during every break for the next month?

[RedKingGold]

Whats the difference between Syracuse and Duke?

One of those teams has received oral pleasure from Dick Vitale on a regular basis.

[MylesKnight]

Whats the difference between Syracuse and Duke?

In a nutshell, the 'Cuse is not the Notre Dame of College Basketball.

[LloydLungs]

This year I will be rooting for my wife's ala mater.

Go UNT! Go Mean Green!!!

I was SO hoping for UNT to draw Ohio State in a 16/1 game this year. UNT is very athletic and would have been the most talented 16 seed ever, and would have given Ohio State culture shock. OSU is overwhelmingly talented, but UNT's style is so different from the Big 10, it would have been one of the most interesting 16/1s ever. As it is, UNT plays a much, much better version of itself with Memphis, and they have no shot. Oh well.

[MylesKnight]

I'm not pointing to anybody in this thread, but isn't it a known fact that the committee will forgive teams that have had to deal with injuries? I have an enormous problem with that.

I agree due to the fact that you never know how well individual players will come back from injuries, and at what % of normal level they are capable of playing.

[Young Drachma]

I'm not pointing to anybody in this thread, but isn't it a known fact that the committee will forgive teams that have had to deal with injuries? I have an enormous problem with that.

That's my understanding, too. And I too, have a problem with it.

[wbatl1]

Umm, did you just see that bracket? I would GLADLY change places with Kansas right now. Marquette as an 8? Are you serious?

This will be fun.

No kidding. Carolina has an extremely tough bracket. I'm happy to be the one in the east, but Gtown (2), Texas (4), Arkansas (12) are all teams that made the final or won their conference tourney in a major conference, and there are some other scary teams there (like Marquette) that will cause problems. As much as I like this team, I don't think it can win all these tough early games it will have too...

[MylesKnight]

I was SO hoping for UNT to draw Ohio State in a 16/1 game this year. UNT is very athletic and would have been the most talented 16 seed ever, and would have given Ohio State culture shock. OSU is overwhelmingly talented, but UNT's style is so different from the Big 10, it would have been one of the most interesting 16/1s ever. As it is, UNT plays a much, much better version of itself with Memphis, and they have no shot. Oh well.

Reminds me of Memphis's 1st Round Opponent last season, Oral Roberts... ORU made a very good showing of it in what was a wild, up and down ballgame.

[molson]

I'm not pointing to anybody in this thread, but isn't it a known fact that the committee will forgive teams that have had to deal with injuries? I have an enormous problem with that.

Yes, and they'll also punish teams who lose a player to injury in the conference championship game if he won't be playing in the tournament (see Kenyon Martin a few years ago).

It's the only fair way to do it. If a team's resume over a year would give them say, a 7, but if they had a certain key player healthy all year they would have been a 4, it's not really fair to the 7 seed's opponent to put them that low.

[st.cronin]

You won't see a Jim Boeheim in a commerical during every break for the next month?

One of those teams has received oral pleasure from Dick Vitale on a regular basis.

In a nutshell, the 'Cuse is not the Notre Dame of College Basketball.

That's what I thought.

[RedKingGold]

I think the media was just wrong in claiming their lock status (which they did even before they won a 1st round tournament game).

I'll give Andy Glockner (writer of ESPN's Drive to 65) credit for never putting Syracuse in as a lock at all over the past few weeks. Also, he does a pretty good job of breaking down why neither Drexel nor Syracuse should've gotten in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bubblewatch?id=60

[molson]

Whats the difference between Syracuse and Duke?

Primarily, quality non-conference wins.

Duke: Air Force, Davidson, Indiana, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Gonzaga,
Syracuse: Holy Cross.....that's it (and that's a borderline "quality" win, but it's their best)

[hoopsguy]

Glad to see that someone gave Cronin a real answer on Syracuse/Duke this year. Love them or hate them, Duke played a much tougher non-conference schedule than Syracuse. And they won a good number of those games, as pointed out by molson.

[st.cronin]

Primarily, quality non-conference wins.

Duke: Air Force, Davidson, Indiana, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Gonzaga,
Syracuse: Holy Cross.....that's it (and that's a borderline "quality" win, but it's their best)

I think if you add their quality conference wins, it becomes even, maybe even slight edge to Syracuse.

[MylesKnight]

NOTE: NIT Field will be announced at 9:00pm EST on ESPN2 & ESPNU.

Here's hoping that UCF somehow sneaks in.

http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/story/10048118

[molson]

I think if you add their quality conference wins, it becomes even, maybe even slight edge to Syracuse.

It does start to look better for Syracuse, but the guy on ESPN.com linked above makes a good point - Syracuse basically had 3 big wins all year, Georgetown, Marquette, and 'Nova.

I've just haven't felt it all year from Syracuse - how could they lose to St. John's and UConn? Wichita St? Nice win at Georgetown at the end of the year, but before that, they weren't even close.

[Young Drachma]

Well it's smart that they're doing it that way, rather than in the past where you just had to wait until the next morning on their web site.

[molson]

Well it's smart that they're doing it that way, rather than in the past where you just had to wait until the next morning on their web site.

Ya, it looks like they've changed a couple of things to gain a little interest. Automatic bids for regular season conference champions, a cleaner bracket with 32 teams, and I think they're actually seeding teams this year.

Sure, most people still won't care, but if you like college basketball, there'll be some fun games.

[henry296]

I think if you add their quality conference wins, it becomes even, maybe even slight edge to Syracuse.

Let's add in conference wins.

Syracuse had two good conference wins: Georgetown and at Marquette.

For Duke you add in UVA and BC twice.

That is three tourney teams vs. two.

[st.cronin]

Let's add in conference wins.

Syracuse had two good conference wins: Georgetown and at Marquette.

For Duke you add in UVA and BC twice.

That is three tourney teams vs. two.

I'm willing to say that Duke had a better season, but its not better enough. Duke got a 6 seed; Syracuse got NIT. You have to look really hard to find a difference between their records.

[Swaggs]

Glad to see that someone gave Cronin a real answer on Syracuse/Duke this year. Love them or hate them, Duke played a much tougher non-conference schedule than Syracuse. And they won a good number of those games, as pointed out by molson.

I think Duke deserves to be there. They had a pretty solid run down the stretch to help them get in.

I think that this season is only the second and third time that a team from the Big East (two teams in this case, WVU and Cuse) had 20+ wins and a winning record in conference without making the tournament. That, more than any other reason, is why folks are surprised about Cuse not getting in. Unfortunately, with the split schedule in the Big East, winning 9 or 10 games for one team is not the same as another team winning 9 or 10 games.

[wbatl1]

So, we've reached a consensus: The Big East needs to get smaller or find a way to schedule better!

[SuperGrover]

I feel for Drexel. They beat Syracuse, Villinova and Creighton on the road. The committee says these mid-majors should play someone if they want to make the at-large, yet Drexel does that and gets stiffed.

Still, I was glad to see Stanford in. All their bad losses happened without a full team due to injuries and they had 5 wins against the Top 50 and 9 against the top 100.

Drexel finished 4th in their conference. They got blown out by Penn, lost to Rider and William & Mary and managed to go 1-5 against the top 3 teams in their league. Considering that Syracuse was left out, the had one non-conference win over an NCAA tourney team, a five point win against Villanova in a game that Scottie Reynolds scored a single point.

If Drexel had that same resume in the ACC, no one would have been talking about them. They had no business being in the tournament.

[st.cronin]

So, we've reached a consensus: The Big East needs to get smaller or find a way to schedule better!

The Big East's schedule is pretty silly, let's face it. What were they thinking?

[Swaggs]

So, we've reached a consensus: The Big East needs to get smaller or find a way to schedule better!

Next season, they are actually going to an 18-game schedule, where each team will play one another once, and each team will play three "rival" teams twice. It won't solve all problems, as the home/away splits can be unfair, but at least each team will play one another, unlike this season, when each team did not play every other team.

[Swaggs]

The Big East's schedule is pretty silly, let's face it. What were they thinking?

I think the long-term thinking was that the football schools and private schools will eventually split. But, there are some rules in place that a certain percentage of member teams need to play together in a conference for a certain number of years before they can form a conference and apply for and automatic bid.

I believe that around 2010, the Big East football schools will split and pick up another team or two (Memphis, ECU, C. Florida) and form a new conference. As it is now, the BE football schools are getting screwed by having only 8 teams, as their schedules only guarantee 3 or 4 home games per year and most teams are having trouble finding enough reputable teams to visit them.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I am most excited about a potential Sweet 16 matchup between old C-USA rivals Memphis and Louisville.

Also, do any of the #16 seeds have a chance? I mean, I know they're not going to win, but are we going to even get a game that's competitive for more than 20 minutes? Honestly, I enjoy the 1/16 games the most for the first two days of the tournament, because I keep hoping that a 16 will finally win in the men's tournament. I nearly cried several years ago when #16 Western Carolina had a chance to put #1 Purdue away, and a WCU player missed a free throw that allowed Purdue to go down the court and win at the end. :(

[DaddyTorgo]

that selection show was a giant waste of time. Especially the analysis after the brackets were revealed by whatever guy it was and billy packer (?). My parents were watching and I hadta get up and shut the TV off it was so painful

[Buccaneer]

Let's add in conference wins.

Syracuse had two good conference wins: Georgetown and at Marquette.

For Duke you add in UVA and BC twice.

That is three tourney teams vs. two.

As cronin said, is Duke that much better as a 6th seed vs a NIT bid?

[dime]

duke shouldn't be a 6 seed...but comparing them to syracuse suggests you've never watched either team play. syracuse has had some terrible losses, and has only had 2 credible wins all year. just because they went 10-6 in a power conference doesn't mean they are one of the best 30 at-large teams.

[Warhammer]

I am most excited about a potential Sweet 16 matchup between old C-USA rivals Memphis and Louisville.

Also, do any of the #16 seeds have a chance? I mean, I know they're not going to win, but are we going to even get a game that's competitive for more than 20 minutes? Honestly, I enjoy the 1/16 games the most for the first two days of the tournament, because I keep hoping that a 16 will finally win in the men's tournament. I nearly cried several years ago when #16 Western Carolina had a chance to put #1 Purdue away, and a WCU player missed a free throw that allowed Purdue to go down the court and win at the end. :(

If Memphis and Louisville play in the Sweet 16, Memphis will shut down an hour before the game starts. That would be HUGE here.

[hoopsguy]

My thoughts are that both Kansas State and Syracuse were sent a message to play more challenging non-conference schedules - and don't be afraid to mix in a road game every once in awhile.

That is the only way that I can see putting Arkansas and Stanford in ahead of those two teams.

[Buccaneer]

I don't disagree about SU being in the NIT but the perceived gap between a 6th seed and a 33rd seed (if one could look at the at-larges in such a way). Maybe that's really not a big gap.

[sterlingice]

I don't disagree about SU being in the NIT but the perceived gap between a 6th seed and a 33rd seed (if one could look at the at-larges in such a way). Maybe that's really not a big gap.

Well, actually, it's more like the 6th seed and 13th seed, but who's counting ;)

SI

[miami_fan]

My thoughts are that both Kansas State and Syracuse were sent a message to play more challenging non-conference schedules - and don't be afraid to mix in a road game every once in awhile.

That is the only way that I can see putting Arkansas and Stanford in ahead of those two teams.

I think that was exactly the message the committee sent for the second year in a row.

[SuperGrover]

I don't disagree about SU being in the NIT but the perceived gap between a 6th seed and a 33rd seed (if one could look at the at-larges in such a way). Maybe that's really not a big gap.

dook's seeding is a joke. They should've been an 8. However, they have a much better resume than Syracuse. dook was 8-7 vs. rpi top 50 and 5-3 vs rpi 51-100. Syracuse 3-6 vs top 50 and 5-2 vs. 51-100. dook played (and was successful versus) a much tougher schedule than Syracuse. It's really not much of a debate.

Compare Syracuse to Arkansas...okay. dook, not so much.

[molson]

Syracuse gets a #2 seed in the NIT - behind Clemson and West Virginia.

[miami_fan]

The biggest snub that I see is Florida State. 17-7 when they lost their starting point guard and second leading scorer Toney Douglas. They lost 4 straight without him and then won 3 of four when he return.

[Logan]

I can't believe UConn and St. John's aren't in the NIT. Maybe the NCAA isn't all about making money.

[Swaggs]

Man, Syracuse or Kansas State didn't even get a #1 in the NIT.

Clemson, West Virginia, Air Force, and Miss. State get the #1 seeds there.

[lcjjdnh]

I am most excited about a potential Sweet 16 matchup between old C-USA rivals Memphis and Louisville.

Also, do any of the #16 seeds have a chance? I mean, I know they're not going to win, but are we going to even get a game that's competitive for more than 20 minutes? Honestly, I enjoy the 1/16 games the most for the first two days of the tournament, because I keep hoping that a 16 will finally win in the men's tournament. I nearly cried several years ago when #16 Western Carolina had a chance to put #1 Purdue away, and a WCU player missed a free throw that allowed Purdue to go down the court and win at the end. :(


Interesting article about that game in the New York Times today. Didn't realize the Matta connection.

hxxp://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/sports/ncaabasketball/11hopkins.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[sterlingice]

Anyone watching this ESPN2 bracket show?

Howland's pimping DirectTV, the Winthrop coach is pushing ESPN shows, etc

SI

[st.cronin]

The NCAA tried to make it clear that the "regional name" designation doesn't matter in the least when they started calling regions by their city names "i.e. Atlanta Region". (Though I'm glad that's gone this year) Florida will be playing their first and second round games in the closest available site - New Orleans.

Ok, so why is it that Ohio State is playing in Lexington instead of Columbus?

[Poli]

Because Columbus, Kentucky is further away. Duh.:rolleyes:











:)

[st.cronin]

Because Columbus, Kentucky is further away. Duh.:rolleyes:











:)

I see, thanks.

[Radii]

Ok, so why is it that Ohio State is playing in Lexington instead of Columbus?

Isn't there a rule preventing a team from playing on its home court in the first two rounds?

[RPI-Fan]

Isn't there a rule preventing a team from playing on its home court in the first two rounds?

Yep. And they do it based on who is the "host school" I think -- so even if the NCAA's aren't technically on OSU's home court, since they're a host school in Columbus they can't play there.

[st.cronin]

Isn't there a rule preventing a team from playing on its home court in the first two rounds?

So they want teams playing close to home ... but not TOO close to home.

[Wolfpack]

Yep. And they do it based on who is the "host school" I think -- so even if the NCAA's aren't technically on OSU's home court, since they're a host school in Columbus they can't play there.

So they want teams playing close to home ... but not TOO close to home.

It truly does depend on who is designated as a "host". Pittsburgh played in, well, Pittsburgh a couple of years ago, and Villanova I think got to play in Philadelphia last year because the hosts were I think Duquesne in the case of Pittsburgh and the A-10 in the case of Philadelphia. So, yes, you can really play at home just so long as you aren't actually "hosting".

[dawgfan]

I can't believe UConn and St. John's aren't in the NIT. Maybe the NCAA isn't all about making money.
How in the fuck does the NIT justify not including Washington?

[Solecismic]

Man, Syracuse or Kansas State didn't even get a #1 in the NIT.

Clemson, West Virginia, Air Force, and Miss. State get the #1 seeds there.

I'm surprised Michigan didn't get a one-seed. They play like they've been prepping for the NIT all year long. The seeding committee should appreciate that.

Ah, well, goodbye Tommy Amaker. Nice knowing you. It was tough knowing you had to beat Ohio State once in two tries this month to save your job, but you got there by scheduling too many patsies out of conference and not having a single decent win on the road all season long.

[MrBug708]

Yep. And they do it based on who is the "host school" I think -- so even if the NCAA's aren't technically on OSU's home court, since they're a host school in Columbus they can't play there.

Heh. The NCAA has games in Spokane but UW is considered the home school. (This missed the tournament, but it's funny to think the Zags could have almost had a home game)

[adubroff]

It truly does depend on who is designated as a "host". Pittsburgh played in, well, Pittsburgh a couple of years ago, and Villanova I think got to play in Philadelphia last year because the hosts were I think Duquesne in the case of Pittsburgh and the A-10 in the case of Philadelphia. So, yes, you can really play at home just so long as you aren't actually "hosting".

There was a qualification that year, and I believe it's still the same, that you have to not have played too many home games in the arena.

[wade moore]

I'll give Andy Glockner (writer of ESPN's Drive to 65) credit for never putting Syracuse in as a lock at all over the past few weeks. Also, he does a pretty good job of breaking down why neither Drexel nor Syracuse should've gotten in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bubblewatch?id=60

His logic for Drexel is very flawed. The reason I say that - he basically just compares Drexel to ODU, the CAA team that did get an at-large bid. IMO, the CAA (and I'm a MAJOR homer, so take it fwiw) deserved three at-large bids. As someone mentioned, how could Drexel do more OOC than was asked of them? They faired poorly against the other top 3 teams in the CAA, but two of those teams (VCU, ODU) are in the NCAA's.

I don't think Drexel got screwed by any means, but I felt like they deserved a shot more than Stanford and a few other teams.

Edit: The 6 at-large bids for mid-majors is a joke. The showed a graph of the rapidly decreasing at-large bids for mid-majors and it's just ridiculous.

[Butter]

Also, do any of the #16 seeds have a chance?

You never know. Albany had a lead well into the 2nd half against UConn last year. One day, one of these teams is going to put it together. But probably not this year.

Duke getting a 6 is fairly comic, but then, so is both Illinois and Purdue getting in while 'Cuse and WVU stay out. Drexel finishing 4th in their league is a major factor for not getting in, despite what others have said. I am surprised Arkansas got a nod over Drexel, considering that UA finished 3rd in the West (which translates to 8th overall in the conference). I don't think the conference tournaments should carry THAT much weight. The mid-majors got screwed big-time. Air Force, Mo. State... it's a shame that some of these other schools got in ahead of them.

I also think it's amusing that Ohio State did not get the overall #1 seed... their only losses were on the road at Florida, North Carolina, and Wisconsin... they lost to 2 #1's and a #2, and that's it. No other team in the tourney has a resume even close to that. But in the end, they got an easier bracket than Florida did anyway, so it all evens out.

[Poli]

So they want teams playing close to home ... but not TOO close to home.
In that case, they should be playing at Columbus. The games are being played at Nationwide Arena downtown and not Value City Arena on Ohio State's campus (Tennessee played there earlier this year).

[Arles]

I also think it's amusing that Ohio State did not get the overall #1 seed... their only losses were on the road at Florida, North Carolina, and Wisconsin... they lost to 2 #1's and a #2, and that's it. No other team in the tourney has a resume even close to that.
I don't think you can use the play-in game as the deciding factor on who got the top seed. IIRC, it's more of a regional thing. A better way to look at the No. 1 overall seed is looking at the 2s. I think most people would rank the 2s as UCLA, Wisconsin, Georgetown and Memphis. Given that, Ohio State got the weakest 2 which tells me they were the No. 1 overall seed.

[Butter]

Yeah, but they announced on the selection show that Florida was the #1 overall seed, and UNC was the #2 overall seed.

But I do agree that Memphis is the weakest #2 (apologies to the Memphis homers on here), so I wasn't too sad to see where they were placed.

[Fighter of Foo]

Can we all agree the selection show itself sucks?

[spleen1015]

Can we all agree the selection show itself sucks?

Absolutely.

[Butter]

I'd love to hear more critical questioning of the committee members.

[Poli]

"Did you order the Code Red?"

[Butter]

AE, what do you think about a potential Sweet 16 rematch with UT vs. Ohio State?

[wade moore]

The CAA boards are just going crazy over this with a lot of good points.

Essentially - Drexel did what the committee told Mid-Majors to do. Go out and schedule a tough OOC and win. They did. #5 OOC SOS and they won 13 of those games - most of them on the road.

It's really a shame that Drexel didn't get in. Yeah, they could have won some more in-conference games agains the big-dogs, but when it comes down to it - they showed that those 4 teams are strong as they all (except VCU) won some big OOC games.

*sigh*

[molson]

I'd love to hear more critical questioning of the committee members.

Wasn't there a selection sunday a few years ago where Bill Packer or somebody when nuts on the committe chairman? Maybe they were asked to tone it down or something.

[Butter]

Yeah, Packer went nuts about too many mid-majors getting in. He verbally assaulted the guy. They could question them without attacking them. They just have to be objective.

*cue laugh track*

[wade moore]

Yeah, Packer went nuts about too many mid-majors getting in. He verbally assaulted the guy. They could question them without attacking them. They just have to be objective.

*cue laugh track*

Ironically - it was last year and revolved heavily around GMU getting a bid.

Packer never admitted he was wrong, Nantz did.

[Warhammer]

UT played OSU tough the first time they played. I was going to go with the upset there. UT vs. Memphis in the Elite Eight.

The funny thing, people look at Memphis as the weakest #2, but looking at that bracket, that is the easiest route for a #2 to advance.

[Butter]

Was it just last year? I thought it was '03 for some reason. That's hilarious, especially since Packer ended up having to see them in the Final 4.

[Poli]

AE, what do you think about a potential Sweet 16 rematch with UT vs. Ohio State?
We were playing some of our best basketball earlier in the year. Honestly? I'd be surprised if we make it past UVA.

[Warhammer]

The CAA boards are just going crazy over this with a lot of good points.

Essentially - Drexel did what the committee told Mid-Majors to do. Go out and schedule a tough OOC and win. They did. #5 OOC SOS and they won 13 of those games - most of them on the road.

It's really a shame that Drexel didn't get in. Yeah, they could have won some more in-conference games agains the big-dogs, but when it comes down to it - they showed that those 4 teams are strong as they all (except VCU) won some big OOC games.

*sigh*

Drexel can't blame anyone but themselves for not getting in. They had a chance, they beat the OOC teams they had to, but fell apart in their conference. If they even split with the big dogs in conference, they'd be in.

[Logan]

Was it just last year? I thought it was '03 for some reason. That's hilarious, especially since Packer ended up having to see them in the Final 4.

He also went nuts on the "St. Joe's doesn't deserve a #1" argument. He completely abused Martelli during an interview. Maybe that's what you're thinking of.

[Butter]

That was 2 years ago.

[Logan]

Googled it...2004.

[wade moore]

Drexel can't blame anyone but themselves for not getting in. They had a chance, they beat the OOC teams they had to, but fell apart in their conference. If they even split with the big dogs in conference, they'd be in.

"fell apart" is a very relative term.

They went 13-5 in the CAA with a 1-4 record against the 3 teams above them in the standings - two of which are in the NCAA's. They had one loss to the 6-12 placed teams (funny enough, my William and Mary Tribe).

Compare that to say Stanford who went 10-8 in the PAC-10 , had the 116th OOC SOS, went 4-6 in their last 10 games, had a 65 RPI.

Or Arkansas who went 7-9 in the weak SEC West, had a 35 OOC, and went 6-4 in their last 10.

Sorry, They did not fall apart - they lost several games to the other very good teams in the CAA who are all top 75 RPI teams.

[Butter]

I can only hope the Atlantic 10 is preparing a re-birth, a la the MVC and the CAA, where we argue about how they should've had 4 teams in instead of 3... instead of having Jay Bilas rake their single at-large team over the coals for the entire first 15 minutes of the ESPN show.

[Butter]

Remember the old days when any old power conference school that went 15-14 would make the NIT?

[wade moore]

I can only hope the Atlantic 10 is preparing a re-birth, a la the MVC and the CAA, where we argue about how they should've had 4 teams in instead of 3... instead of having Jay Bilas rake their single at-large team over the coals for the entire first 15 minutes of the ESPN show.

A-10 shouldn't have had two seeds, but Xavier blew it in the tourney. I'm mad at Xavier, Nevada, and Winthrop - they all could have single handedly gotten Drexel in.

[molson]

Remember the old days when any old power conference school that went 15-14 would make the NIT?

Ya - people are talking like the BCS conferences are increasing their dominance, but it wasn't too long ago that 9-7 in a conference was an automatic bid.

[Butter]

A-10 shouldn't have had two seeds, but Xavier blew it in the tourney. I'm mad at Xavier, Nevada, and Winthrop - they all could have single handedly gotten Drexel in.

I can't believe George Washington got an 11 seed. I really think there aren't going to be that many upsets this year just because if GW got an 11, that must mean the rest of the field looks like crap.

[Logan]

I can't believe George Washington got an 11 seed. I really think there aren't going to be that many upsets this year just because if GW got an 11, that must mean the rest of the field looks like crap.

I was shocked at how many 1-5 seeds I have in the Sweet 16. I don't feel like I'm taking the chalk...the matchups just aren't there.

[SuperGrover]

A-10 shouldn't have had two seeds, but Xavier blew it in the tourney. I'm mad at Xavier, Nevada, and Winthrop - they all could have single handedly gotten Drexel in.

You mean Butler?

I had Drexel in and think they deserved it ahead of Illinois but, quite frankly, it was so close you can't really fault any selection. As shown last year, the new and improved RPI is not being catered to as much as the old, mainly because it is f&*ked (SIU, Pitt, and UNLV are all aheaad of KU).

Stanford got in for a few reasons:

1) They beat 6 tourney teams. Drexel beat 2 (George Mason and Villanova).
2) Stanford played 6 games without Goods and 5 without Brook Lopez. They were 3-3 without Goods and suffered their worst loss of the season without Lopez (Air Force).
3) They lost 5 games in OT or by less than 5 points including the last two games of the season (4-5 record overall). Games of that nature are often decided by luck. Drexel was 3-2 in such games.

I think those three points were the main rationale for including them. I don't necessarily agree with it (like I said, I had Drexel in) but I believe that was their logic.

Illinois is the team that should've been out IMHO. They were 3-9 against tourney teams with two home wins (IU and Mich St.) and an OT win in the conference tourney (OT vs IU). They did not deserve to be in the tourney.

[wade moore]

You mean Butler?

I had Drexel in and think they deserved it ahead of Illinois but, quite frankly, it was so close you can't really fault any selection. As shown last year, the new and improved RPI is not being catered to as much as the old, mainly because it is f&*ked (SIU, Pitt, and UNLV are all aheaad of KU).

Stanford got in for a few reasons:

1) They beat 6 tourney teams. Drexel beat 2 (George Mason and Villanova).
2) Stanford played 6 games without Goods and 5 without Brook Lopez. They were 3-3 without Goods and suffered their worst loss of the season without Lopez (Air Force).
3) They lost 5 games in OT or by less than 5 points including the last two games of the season (4-5 record overall). Games of that nature are often decided by luck. Drexel was 3-2 in such games.

I think those three points were the main rationale for including them. I don't necessarily agree with it (like I said, I had Drexel in) but I believe that was their logic.

Illinois is the team that should've been out IMHO. They were 3-9 against tourney teams with two home wins (IU and Mich St.) and an OT win in the conference tourney (OT vs IU). They did not deserve to be in the tourney.

Yes, I meant Butler ;).

I see your point to an extent, I just don't agree. #3 to me is a total crock - and if it's actually part of the consideration that's ridiculous.

But agreed on Illinois. I actually wonder if Arkansas may have been just as bad as them.

[Swaggs]

I think Purdue was a worse choice than Illinois.

Purdue and UVA have ridiculously high seeds for their credentials.

[wade moore]

I think Purdue was a worse choice than Illinois.

Purdue and UVA have ridiculously high seeds for their credentials.

Being tied for the ACC regular season isn't a substantial achievment?

[wade moore]

Dola: I know their OOC is terrible and I thought they should probably be a 5 or 6 seed, but when I look at the 5 and 6 seeds, I'm not sure who I'd move up in their place.

[wade moore]

Committee Chair Walters is on with Mike and the Mad Dog right now (don't listen to this show, another board pointed me to it)... They're really getting into him..

Their logic is circular... he says one logic, then they prove him how another team fit that logic better, then he spins another logic...

It's just stupid.

[Swaggs]

Being tied for the ACC regular season isn't a substantial achievment?

It is a fine achievement, but holds a little less weight if you are factoring in the unbalanced schedule.

The big picture is that they had the 55th best RPI, lost 10 games, went 3-9 away from home, lost 3 games to teams with RPIs over 100, and lost the opening game of their tournament.

They were not one of the 16 best teams in the country and should not have been seeded as one.

[wade moore]

It is a fine achievement, but holds a little less weight if you are factoring in the unbalanced schedule.

The big picture is that they had the 55th best RPI, lost 10 games, went 3-9 away from home, lost 3 games to teams with RPIs over 100, and lost the opening game of their tournament.

They were not one of the 16 best teams in the country and should not have been seeded as one.

Yeah, like I said, i'd probably put them around 6.. but again, not sure who I'd move up...

[SuperGrover]

Yeah, like I said, i'd probably put them around 6.. but again, not sure who I'd move up...

Louisville
Notre Dame
Va Tech (although, that would inflate VPI's seed as well)

UVa is one of the more ridiculous seeds out there along with Washington State (3 seed? Are you f*(king kidding me?), dook, Ga Tech (they should've been an 8), Purdue, and Creighton. Also, the fact that Niagra is in the play-in game is a joke although i doubt anyone cares.

Yes, I meant Butler .

I see your point to an extent, I just don't agree. #3 to me is a total crock - and if it's actually part of the consideration that's ridiculous.

But agreed on Illinois. I actually wonder if Arkansas may have been just as bad as them.

I do think they consider close games as they should. Close games are often a matter of luck in any sport. Losing or winning a bunch can sometimes skew the quality of a team. I harped on this early in the season w/r/t Okie State who somehow managed to win every close game to maintain a pretty gaudy record. Turns out I was correct for once!

Whatever the case, I definitely agree that Drexel got f*(ked. Honestly, a case could be made for Missouri State and FSU as well. Arkansas, Purdue and Illinois are mediocre and could've easily been left out. They weren't and that's that I guess.

At least there was no Utah State WTF moment this year.

[GoldenEagle]

Several of the college basketball experts are saying Memphis will lose in the second round or they will lose to TAMU. That is fine. I expect it. It was the same thing last year. Memphis just has to go out and prove them wrong.

[KevinNU7]

Some of you are really over analyzing the whole selection process. It is very funny

[Lathum]

I was just watching the talking heads on ESPN "predict" their final 4. All of them had 3 #seeds and none of them had a seed above 3 in the elite 8. Way to go out on a limb you stupid clowns.

[sooner333]

In that case, they should be playing at Columbus. The games are being played at Nationwide Arena downtown and not Value City Arena on Ohio State's campus (Tennessee played there earlier this year).

I believe Ohio State is the host of that sub-regional location. NCAA rules prohibit you to play at a site that you are hosting unless it is the Final Four. The other qualification is playing more than three home games at the site...but it is the host thing that didn't let them play there. The Big 10 couldn't come in and take over the hosting because they are already hosting the Chicago regional.

[Warhammer]

Several of the college basketball experts are saying Memphis will lose in the second round or they will lose to TAMU. That is fine. I expect it. It was the same thing last year. Memphis just has to go out and prove them wrong.

Who is saying that Memphis is going to lose in the second round? Everyone I've heard is saying its Memphis vs. TAMU or UL in the Sweet 16.

[Young Drachma]

Here's a question:

How long will the NCAA keep the NIT after its contract is up? They can't get rid of it completely, so I'm wondering if they'll rename it, keep it around as the 2nd tier tournament or if they'll decide to merge it with the NCAA tourney to create one mega tournament. They can't like having two post-season champions.

[Young Drachma]

Dola

Though that's better than college football.

[Karlifornia]

Here's a question:

How long will the NCAA keep the NIT after its contract is up? They can't get rid of it completely, so I'm wondering if they'll rename it, keep it around as the 2nd tier tournament or if they'll decide to merge it with the NCAA tourney to create one mega tournament. They can't like having two post-season champions.

I really don't think anyone, including the NCAA looks at the NIT champ in the same way people looked at LSU and USC in football a few years ago. Nobody would call the NCAA and NIT winners "Co-champions", if that's what you're saying.

[Logan]

I really don't think anyone, including the NCAA looks at the NIT champ in the same way people looked at LSU and USC in football a few years ago. Nobody would call the NCAA and NIT winners "Co-champions", if that's what you're saying.

Ugh. I'm a Rutgers guy, and last year when people were debating whether our basketball coach should be fired, those against it were pumping up how he carried us to the NIT finals in 2004, and after all, we had a "NIT runner-up" title under our belts.

I was disgusted.

[miami_fan]

The NIT serves the purpose of any other bowl game other than the national championship game in football. An opportunity for team to get some extra practice time and at least one extra game to use as a springboard into the next season.

[Logan]

The NIT serves the purpose of any other bowl game other than the national championship game in football. An opportunity for team to get some extra practice time and at least one extra game to use as a springboard into the next season.

I should say that I think the games themselves definitely have purpose, like you described. I know that me and my buddies had a ton of fun traveling to/from the Garden and at the games.

[sooner333]

I think they'll keep it going. They seem to have it down now getting a good field in and ESPN still is broadcasting the games. With ESPNU gaining some steam getting on at least the digital tiers of cable and sat. I think there will be room to televise the games on the off-days of the NCAA tournament. Fans still buy tickets and I assume they're making some money on it.

I don't think the coaches will let it go away...and if not, maybe someone else will be allowed to sanction a postseason tournament.

[BishopMVP]

A-10 shouldn't have had two seeds, but Xavier blew it in the tourney. I'm mad at Xavier, Nevada, and Winthrop - they all could have single handedly gotten Drexel in.Drexel got screwed, but if UMass' entire team hadn't gotten the flu at once we probably would have made it too. Go bitch at Stanford, Illinois and Arkansas.

[Lathum]

Is anyone else watching this moronic " america picks the bracket" on sportscenter. Did they not anticipate all the favorites? It is really riviting TV listening to them talking about all 1 vs. 2 matchups.

[sterlingice]

I was just watching the talking heads on ESPN "predict" their final 4. All of them had 3 #seeds and none of them had a seed above 3 in the elite 8. Way to go out on a limb you stupid clowns.

Well, to be fair, a lot of years, that's how it goes. Yes, there's going to be maybe 3 teams in the E8 that aren't expected, but that deep in the tourney, it's just quite a few favorites- there's a reason they're the top seeds. It's not necessarily the #1s, but it's almost always someone in the top 4.

SI

[sterlingice]

Committee Chair Walters is on with Mike and the Mad Dog right now (don't listen to this show, another board pointed me to it)... They're really getting into him..

Their logic is circular... he says one logic, then they prove him how another team fit that logic better, then he spins another logic...

It's just stupid.

This is what really gets me. There was no consistency. I think there are kindof 2 ends of the "who gets in" argument spectrum.

The first is that you take the 35 best teams out there. You sit down, watch the teams and say "I like Stanford because, with their stars, they'll take down Drexel" and use that as your justification. It's kindof how the football polls end up most of the time- "Sure, I like how X has played this season and they even beat team Y on a flukey week, but team Y is a better team if they play 10 times".

The other end of the spectrum is that you are rewarded for your season "resume" and then the tournament is a reward for those who proved themselves in the season. Frankly- this is how I think it should be run. If you went out and played some people, then you should be rewarded for that. You did your part in the season- even if you did get "lucky", you got lucky enough times to beat enough teams to put you in, even against teams with more talent. You took one of the team, went out and played a game early on that you had a good chance of losing instead of fattening up on a patsy and you may have lost but you gave us all a good show.

And this is the problem I saw a lot this year, much more than in the past couple of years- they tended to try and pick one side or the other. But this year, the committee was talking out of both sides of their mouth, picking which justification worked for whichever case they were trying to prove but lacking anything resembling consistency.

SI

[wade moore]

Well put si.

What bothers me I think is that the committee sets a standard on year and says, "Ok mid-majors, here's what you need to do".

They do it, and the standards change.

[Lathum]

I love mike and the maddog.

[GoldenEagle]

Who is saying that Memphis is going to lose in the second round? Everyone I've heard is saying its Memphis vs. TAMU or UL in the Sweet 16.

Dick Vitale and the talking heads all predicted that Memphis would lose to Nevada in the second round.

[hoopsguy]

Illinois is the team that should've been out IMHO. They were 3-9 against tourney teams

7-9, but who is counting? In all seriousness, if you want to question the Illini you can bring up the point that the best team they beat was an overseeded #7 seed in the tournament.

I didn't have a lot emotionally invested with Illinois being in the NCAA tourney - they had a very mediocre season because of injuries early and a lack of a go-to scorer. This is especially apparent in close ballgames, where they have wilted in the last four minutes against good competition. They are a team that has been out of sync all year long.

But I would have been extremely upset if Arkansas was in ahead of them, and I thought they deserved to be in ahead of Stanford as well.

[Logan]

Dick Vitale and the talking heads all predicted that Memphis would lose to Nevada in the second round.

Whoops. I have Memphis losing to North Texas.

[Swaggs]

7-9, but who is counting? In all seriousness, if you want to question the Illini you can bring up the point that the best team they beat was an overseeded #7 seed in the tournament.

I didn't have a lot emotionally invested with Illinois being in the NCAA tourney - they had a very mediocre season because of injuries early and a lack of a go-to scorer. This is especially apparent in close ballgames, where they have wilted in the last four minutes against good competition. They are a team that has been out of sync all year long.

But I would have been extremely upset if Arkansas was in ahead of them, and I thought they deserved to be in ahead of Stanford as well.

I liked how ESPN kept showing a comparison between Purdue and Illinois, where Illinois had reasonably better SOS and RPI ratings (something like in the 30s vs in the 50s) and more quality wins, but they kept saying that the teams were virtually identical.

[LloydLungs]

I liked how ESPN kept showing a comparison between Purdue and Illinois, where Illinois had reasonably better SOS and RPI ratings (something like in the 30s vs in the 50s) and more quality wins, but they kept saying that the teams were virtually identical.

Purdue did beat Illinois by 17 in their one head-to-head meeting. That shouldn't necessarily be the end-all (especially since the game was at Purdue), but it really tightens it up between those two.

[hoopsguy]

In fairness, Purdue just crushed Illinois at their place. And there was no rematch in Champaign. I turned the Purdue game off about ten minutes in, I was so disgusted with how they played that day. It does seem like the committee gave a lot of respect to head-to-head play (Florida as #1 overall seed despite much worse losses than Ohio State, for example) so I'm not screaming about Purdue's seed or the comparisons with Illinois. Maybe not thrilled about the analysis of the dim-witted Hubert Davis, but that is a separate thought ...

But I don't understand why Indiana was afforded as much respect as they were over the last month of the season. They were just as bad on the road as the other teams, finished 5-5 in their last 10 and only had one matchup each against Ohio State and Wisconsin. With Purdue and Illinois, you saw them improving in February. Yet they pulled down a #7 seed, which I consider to be at least as bad as Duke at a #6 seed.

[GoldenEagle]

Whoops. I have Memphis losing to North Texas.

Cool.

[Young Drachma]

Remember the old days when any old power conference school that went 15-14 would make the NIT?

I miss those days. Back when the NIT would scrape to take anyone, Wyoming would've made it. Now, they're cutting back opportunities. I mean, they cut teams from the NIT, so they've minimized the number of postseason spots when we've already admitted that they snubbed teams that should've been part of the big field.

But again, this debate is far more interesting than the football debate each year.

[Butter]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that with a 40 team NIT field and no auto-bids, that Dayton would've made it too. I guess it's nice to reward teams for winning a conference outright... but damn, it sure is making the postseason a lot more boring for some of us mid-major crap schools.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'm willing to say that Duke had a better season, but its not better enough. Duke got a 6 seed; Syracuse got NIT. You have to look really hard to find a difference between their records.

It doesn't matter what ranking you pick... Pomeroy, RPI, Sagarin... Duke is in the top 20. Syracuse has an RPI over 50, their rank in Pomeroy is 27... they're clearly a cut below Duke.

Doesn't mean I think they should have been left out, or that Duke is a 6 seed, but you can't make a reasonable argument that they're comparable teams.

[wade moore]

It doesn't matter what ranking you pick... Pomeroy, RPI, Sagarin... Duke is in the top 20. Syracuse has an RPI over 50, their rank in Pomeroy is 27... they're clearly a cut below Duke.

Doesn't mean I think they should have been left out, or that Duke is a 6 seed, but you can't make a reasonable argument that they're comparable teams.

I missed st. cronin's comment the first time around.

I defended Duke a bit in the Duke thread (despite not liking Duke).. to say that Duke and Syracuse have an equal resume is a pretty big stretch.

[Lathum]

I missed st. cronin's comment the first time around.

I defended Duke a bit in the Duke thread (despite not liking Duke).. to say that Duke and Syracuse have an equal resume is a pretty big stretch.

QFT

[Mr. Wednesday]

Well put si.

What bothers me I think is that the committee sets a standard on year and says, "Ok mid-majors, here's what you need to do".

They do it, and the standards change.
I think it's true for more than just the mid-majors.

I think you could pick just about any criterion and find a team where the seeding, selection, or both doesn't fit. OOC scheduling, conference strength, conference record, conference tournament, general end-of-season performance...

[st.cronin]

I was talking with somebody else about this, and my big issue with Duke vs. Syracuse is, why have conferences? Duke did nothing in their conference, nothing at all. Syracuse's ooc record is clearly inferior to Duke's, I agree, but to me, who cares about that? That's like a football fan saying LSU had an inferior spring practice to Texas, so they shouldn't get to play in the national chamionship.

Just my $.02

[Lathum]

I was talking with somebody else about this, and my big issue with Duke vs. Syracuse is, why have conferences? Duke did nothing in their conference, nothing at all. Syracuse's ooc record is clearly inferior to Duke's, I agree, but to me, who cares about that? That's like a football fan saying LSU had an inferior spring practice to Texas, so they shouldn't get to play in the national chamionship.

Just my $.02

I don't see how this makes any sense. The harder your OOC schedule is the better your opponents are. If you are playing better opponents your losses mean more.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I was talking with somebody else about this, and my big issue with Duke vs. Syracuse is, why have conferences? Duke did nothing in their conference, nothing at all. Syracuse's ooc record is clearly inferior to Duke's, I agree, but to me, who cares about that? That's like a football fan saying LSU had an inferior spring practice to Texas, so they shouldn't get to play in the national chamionship.
The problem is, Syracuse did so-so against a not-so-great OOC schedule (with a big issue being that all the games were at home). Whereas Duke did relatively well against a nasty OOC schedule. And while their conference record wasn't up to their usual standards, it's not at the level of, say, Arkansas. I don't disagree with pushing Duke down in the seeding because of lackluster performance at the end of the season, but it's foolish to argue that their resume and Syracuse's are comparable, because they're not.

Duke's not the team you should be attacking here. There are much better targets.

edit: I say "so-so" because Syracuse lost home games against non-tournament teams (bubble, but left out)

[Karlifornia]

I think it's quite funny that Boeheim thinks the solution is expanding the field. Even if the tourney was 128 teams, there would be a week's worth of arguments over which 13-18 team got snubbed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

NCSU 63
Drexel 56

[Wolfpack]

NCSU 63
Drexel 56

Bless 'em, the boys pulled it out after a horrid start. Quite a feat given they were in Tampa on Sunday, losing a tough game to North Carolina for the ACC championship. This was their fifth game in six days and they're 4-1 now over that stretch. A lot of State fans are now Marist fans, hoping they can upset Okie State so that State can have the home game next round.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And nearly midway through the first half, the Red Foxes are happy to oblige.

[Thomkal]

As I'm from the Marist area, Go Red Foxes!

[SuperGrover]

7-9, but who is counting?

You're correct. I missed Florida A&M, Jackson State, Belmont, and Miami Ohio. I don't know HOW I could've made that mistake!!!!!!!!!!

[SuperGrover]

As I'm from the Marist area, Go Red Foxes!

Keep this game in mind whenever someone (say, Bill Simmons) mentions Oklahoma State as a quality team (I think he said they'd finish 3rd in the Big Ten which is fucking ridiculous).

[LloydLungs]

Keep this game in mind whenever someone (say, Bill Simmons) mentions Oklahoma State as a quality team (I think he said they'd finish 3rd in the Big Ten which is fucking ridiculous).

Simmons doesn't know anything about college sports. He's a pretty good pro analyst but is completely out of his element with college hoops and college football.

[wade moore]

NCSU 63
Drexel 56

:(

[Thomkal]

woot Marist! The MAAC really got snubbed by both committees, so nice to see both Niagara and Marist win on the same night.

[Wolfpack]

woot Marist! The MAAC really got snubbed by both committees, so nice to see both Niagara and Marist win on the same night.

And there may yet be more good news for Marist. There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the NC State board right now because there is a scheduling conflict at both the RBC Center and at Reynolds on Friday night. Lots of people ready to string up AD Lee Fowler (again) for what they perceive is a failure to have a plan in-place to handle a potential NC State-Marist game in Raleigh on Friday. Never mind that the RBC Center and Reynolds were probably booked months in advance (RBC has a concert, Reynolds is hosting gymnastics) and that we didn't even know we were in the NIT until Sunday night. I think I can cut the guy just a little slack for not having everything lined up to a tee by 9 AM this morning.

[Cuckoo]

Keep this game in mind whenever someone (say, Bill Simmons) mentions Oklahoma State as a quality team (I think he said they'd finish 3rd in the Big Ten which is fucking ridiculous).

As someone who has watched Oklahoma State many times this season, trust me when I say they're a quality team. They're just schizophrenic and completely unable to sustain playing with any sort of heart. They're in desperate need of a leader, I think.

Despite being very short on depth and having injury problems all year, they had a decent season and pulled off some nice wins (Texas, A&M, Syracuse, Pittsburgh). Now, I'll add that I don't know enough about the Big 10 to say where they'd finish. The Marist game was certainly a disappointment but not altogether a surprise after the Big 12 tournament. I almost expected them to be unable to keep that up consistently.

[Thomkal]

And there may yet be more good news for Marist. There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the NC State board right now because there is a scheduling conflict at both the RBC Center and at Reynolds on Friday night. Lots of people ready to string up AD Lee Fowler (again) for what they perceive is a failure to have a plan in-place to handle a potential NC State-Marist game in Raleigh on Friday. Never mind that the RBC Center and Reynolds were probably booked months in advance (RBC has a concert, Reynolds is hosting gymnastics) and that we didn't even know we were in the NIT until Sunday night. I think I can cut the guy just a little slack for not having everything lined up to a tee by 9 AM this morning.

Thanks for that news Wolfpack. Doubt they will get to have the game at their place, which is why they were seeded so low, in my opinion. Probably a neutral site in/near Raleigh.

[INDalltheway]

I like how everyone is doubting Purdue. They aren't bad so everyone knows, and though Arizona is a lot more talented, we have a good chance of beating them. Should be a good game.

[SuperGrover]

As someone who has watched Oklahoma State many times this season, trust me when I say they're a quality team. They're just schizophrenic and completely unable to sustain playing with any sort of heart. They're in desperate need of a leader, I think.

What are you basing this on besides their ability to score in bunches? They've had terribly mediocre wins (NWrn St by 3 at home, Auburn by 1, Baylor by 4 at home,) and bad losses (30 @ KU, 18 @ Texas A&M, 12 @ Colorado, Oklahoma, 29 @ Texas, 11 vs. MU, 20 vs. Texas A&M, @ Baylor, @ Nebraska) all season long. They only thing they've shown is an incredible ability to win close games (10-4 in games decided by less than 5 points or in OT) which are as much a part of luck as they are about true excellence. Give them a record of 7-7 in those games, and their final record becomes 19-16 against a mediocre schedule.

How is this team, with it's average record and long list of blowout losses, a top 50 squad? Again, what are you basing this on other than completely subjective opinion?

[SuperGrover]

woot Marist! The MAAC really got snubbed by both committees, so nice to see both Niagara and Marist win on the same night.

Niagra did get absolutely f&*ked having to play last night. What was that?

You know who else got screwed and few are commenting about it? Texas A&M. They were one of the top 3 seeds but are aligned to play one of the better 6 seeds within an hour-drive of said school's campus (UofL). That's total bullsh!t.

[Butter]

Yeah, but if A&M wins through the first 2 rounds, they'll be set-up to play in San Antonio for the 3rd and 4th rounds. Unfair to Ohio State and Memphis, IMO.

[SuperGrover]

Yeah, but if A&M wins through the first 2 rounds, they'll be set-up to play in San Antonio for the 3rd and 4th rounds. Unfair to Ohio State and Memphis, IMO.

Not a lot you can do about regional sites. They are much less likely to be dominated by local fans anyway. The pod sites, OTOH, can easily be changed and are often not even half-full.

[korme]

I think it's quite funny that Boeheim thinks the solution is expanding the field. Even if the tourney was 128 teams, there would be a week's worth of arguments over which 13-18 team got snubbed.

Is it just me or would it be easier just to expand to 80 teams? No need to double the bracket. Just add 1 vs. 20 and so on for four sides and keep as normal.

Nevermind, started pooping and wrote out some bracket formulas. Wouldn't work.

[Wolfpack]

Thanks for that news Wolfpack. Doubt they will get to have the game at their place, which is why they were seeded so low, in my opinion. Probably a neutral site in/near Raleigh.

They've got it sorted out now. Marist is coming to NC State for a 9:30 game on Friday at Reynolds Coliseum. They decided to move up the gymnastics meet to 4 PM to get it all in. Given the buzz from the ACC tournament, the place should be an absolute zoo Friday night.

I still don't think it'll be quite on the level of what I experienced back in 1996 when State made the NIT, which was the first time the Pack was post-season eligible since 1991 and in between the program was imploded due to fallout from the end of the Valvano tenure. State got two games at home against Missouri State and against West Virginia. It was as if five years of fan frustration were let out in those games and I still wonder how in the world that guy from West Virginia hit both his free throws near the end of the game to give them a three-point lead and the win. It was just a wall of sound in there that night. Unfortunately, they've since reconfigured Reynolds and reduced its seating capacity for the women's team who usually plays there, so it's lost a couple of thousand seats.

[Thomkal]

thanks again for the update Wolfpack. Figured they'd work something out.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Keep this game in mind whenever someone (say, Bill Simmons) mentions Oklahoma State as a quality team (I think he said they'd finish 3rd in the Big Ten which is fucking ridiculous).
Using an NIT game as proof for or against anything is silly. You never know whether a team is going to decide to show up to play or if they're still moping about not being in the NCAA tournament.

[BishopMVP]

Niagra did get absolutely f&*ked having to play last night. What was that?It was to avoid claims of racism. No, seriously - http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2796072
Walters defended Niagara's inclusion in the opening-round game, too. The game, which was created once there became 31 automatic berths with the split of the WAC into the WAC and Mountain West (the committee didn't want to reduce the number of at-large berths from 34), is supposed to be for the two lowest rated teams in the RPI. If that's the case then Niagara wouldn't be in the game since there were four teams that had lower RPI numbers than Niagara -- Central Connecticut State, Weber State, North Texas and Jackson State. Walters said the committee is sensitive to putting in two historically black colleges in the game. Jackson State and Florida A&M, Niagara's opponent in the game Tuesday night in Dayton, come from the two historically black colleges in the SWAC and MEAC.
Jackson State is a 16 seed against Florida, CCSU is a 16 against Ohio State, North Texas is a 15 against Memphis and Weber State is a 15 against UCLA.
Walters said, "First of all, I think we are, as you know, sensitive to the historically black colleges.:rolleyes:

[Mr. Wednesday]

Which still doesn't justify putting Niagara there instead of Central Connecticut. :rolleyes:

[Easy Mac]

Dick Vitale and the talking heads all predicted that Memphis would lose to Nevada in the second round.

From the look of the game early on, they may all be wrong... not in the way you hoped though.

[Eaglesfan27]

From the look of the game early on, they may all be wrong... not in the way you hoped though.


I haven't checked on the score in the last hour, but this just made me LOL based on the last score I saw.

[Warhammer]

I bet old Thad Young is glad he picked GT over Memphis now...

[GoldenEagle]

From the look of the game early on, they may all be wrong... not in the way you hoped though.

Memphis does tend to start slow. UNT played very well though. They deserve credit. We will see what happens, but I think we will play Creighton.

[GoldenEagle]

I bet old Thad Young is glad he picked GT over Memphis now...

Team Thad would not let him play for a white guy.