what better, patrick roy or martin brodeur?

[saldana]

lathum, captain2711, and myself just had a knock down drag em out argument over who the best goaltender of all time is, so i thought it would be festive to bring in other hockey fans opinions.

lathum is a huge devils fan, so his vote was obvious.

captain2711 (lurker extraordinaire that he is) is a huge rangers fan, so he automatically has to hate on the devils and was all about Roy

I am a flyers fan, and despite my deep seated hatred for all things New Jersey, have no problem expressing that I think Brodeur is easily better than Roy, will smash all his records, and probably should have twice as many Vezina trophies than he actually does

Capt2711 tried to say that the only reason brodeur wins as many games as he has in his career is because he starts 80 games a year, and for some reason this is a bad thing....Lathum and I countered that this was an amazing thing for a goalie and should be counted in his favor in this argument, since playing that many games for a goalie is virtually unheard of

Capt2711 also tried to say that since Roy revolutionalized goalkeeping (i disagreed) and that he played in a different era of hockey (we didnt realize 10 years ago was a different era, since they were in the league at the same time) that the 2 were not comparable easily...much like babe ruth and hank aaron.

anyone else care to weigh in.

[WVUFAN]

Patrick Roy, since he has the better last name.

[JeeberD]

Roy. 'Cause I said so.

[Warhammer]

They are from two different eras. Roy started with the high flying NHL where offense ruled, and Brodeur hails from the neutral trap dominated NHL. Which team was the one that made the trap popular? New Jersey.

That said, I think Brodeur is a better goalie than Roy was, but I don't think it is as clear cut as you would make it out to be.

[JeeberD]

Dola-

Who the hell is captain2711?

[Warhammer]

But, Roy still has the single best comeback in the NHL, "I can't understand you, I have two Stanley Cup Rings in my ears!" Oh snap!

[Logan]

Brodeur, because he banged his wife's sister.

[klayman]

Brodeur, because he banged his wife's sister.

Damn, I was going to say that :(

[Warhammer]

Pix pls, thx.

[Logan]

Damn, I was going to say that :(

Sorry, but this was such a slam dunk argument that I couldn't wait any longer.

[ISiddiqui]

Brodeur. He has this incredible stamina. As said in the opening post, he can play 80 games in the regular season and still have plenty in the tank for a long playoff run. And still put up some incredible numbers. That's absolutely amazing in this day and age.

[Pumpy Tudors]

From what I've read, it wasn't his wife's sister. It was his wife's brother's wife. That doesn't get nearly as many "cool" points. :D

[KWhit]

Who?

[vtbub]

Terry Sawchuck

[Logan]

From what I've read, it wasn't his wife's sister. It was his wife's brother's wife. That doesn't get nearly as many "cool" points. :D

Agreed. That means Roy is the better goalie.

In the irony of ironies, the first link brought up by googling "brodeur wife sister" not only discussed this, but also mentioned "marital discord in the Patrick Roy household."

[Pyser]

brodeur. no question. he not only stops the puck better, but he revolutionized the way goalies handle the puck, too.

[bhlloy]

brodeur. no question. he not only stops the puck better, but he revolutionized the way goalies handle the puck, too.

To be fair though, didn't Roy revolutionize the butterfly, which is the style that most goalies including Brodeur now use?

I think Brodeur is just about the better goalie, he is less tempremental and more consistent than Roy ever was. Although Roy played in a high-offense era, Brodeur hasn't exactly been bad since the lockout where offensive numbers are starting to get close to the early 90's. I think it's really damn close, but edge Brodeur.

[Pyser]

brodeur isnt a butterfly goalie, for the record.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, Marty is considered a 'hybrid style' goalie, mixing butterfly with the stand-up style.

[ISiddiqui]

Let us also not forget about Brodeur's great puck handling. Though NHL rules have changed to diminish this aspect of his game, it is still a great asset.

[Logan]

Let us also not forget about Brodeur's great puck handling. Though NHL rules have changed to diminish this aspect of his game, it is still a great asset.

You should tell that to Pyser. :)

I thought it was great last year when he started beating the puck to the goal line and firing it up the boards to his teammates.

[MizzouRah]

Sean Casey. :)

[bbor]

This is a tough arguement....both these guys are fantastic.I'll give the edge presently to Roy......but if Brodeur hangs a few more seasons he will surpass Roy.

[Chubby]

Roy, he would have better stats playing in Marty's era and behind the trap

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Neither. They both played the majority of their careers during the NHL's defensive years. I have to hold that as a strike against them. For me, I nominate Tony Esposito for consideration. While Roy "popularized" the butterfly technique that has come to prominence again, Esposito arguably invented it.

His first full season in the NHL saw him win the Calder and Vezina Trophies as he posted a 2.17 GAA and 15 shutouts in 63 games. The 15 shutouts is a modern day record for most in one season. He would go on to win or share 3 Vezinas, and five All Star berths. He thrived on a heavy work load. In fact, over 8 year stretch he averaged 68 games a season.

Most people will disualify him because he never won a Stanley Cup, but I don't. At the time he played in the NHL, his performance was masterful.

[Fidatelo]

I always have my nagging doubts about Brodeur due to the system he as played in. With Roy it is easier to seperate his performance from his teammates because he played with two different teams, and each one played a different style.

That said, Brodeur certainly seems to be a friggin' rock back there, and maybe Jersey can only get away with the way they play because of him?

I don't know, the best way to tell would be for Brodeur to get traded to another team.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, I mean any system has to have great players. And you've just seen a New Jersey Devils team lose Scott Stevens and Scott Niedermeyer from the blue line two years ago and STILL put together a couple of amazing seasons. While both defenders were great, the constant has been Brodeur. Add that to the fact that the Devils don't really play the trap anymore, and haven't really since Lemaire left.

[EagleFan]

Bernie Parent

[Vinatieri for Prez]

He was damn good too.

[st.cronin]

I say Roy. Brodeur is certainly great, though.

[st.cronin]

dola - every goalie these days plays a "hybrid" style. The way goalies play has less to do with Roy's success than with the fact that pucks go so fast - its neccesary to go down into a butterfly in most (but not all) situations. Roy wasn't really an innovator, he was just the most succesful at a time when the game was changing. Likewise Brodeur with the stickhandling - there were other goalies notable for playing like a 3rd defenseman, Brodeur was just so succesful that people make it seem like he was the first goalie to be able to pass the puck.

[amdaily]

If we are talking about taking a goalie in his prime, I go Hasek. Was glad I lived in Buffalo during his first couple seasons there.

[Lathum]

If we are talking about taking a goalie in his prime, I go Hasek. Was glad I lived in Buffalo during his first couple seasons there.

Except that Brodeur was also in his prime at the same time and he was winning cups and beating Hasek's teams in heads up series...

[Lathum]

Roy, he would have better stats playing in Marty's era and behind the trap

this is such a tired argument. the devils played the "trap" for basicly the equvilent of 1-2 seasons and had 2 all star defensmn at the time. They were also one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL in that era.

[FrogMan]

Mike Palmateer

[fenrrris]

Brodeur also fathered twins while in possession of only one testicle.

Most potent man of all time?

[Young Drachma]

Without Marty, the Devils don't win three Cups. I say Brodeur.

And yes, I'm a homer.

[Logan]

I'm a Ranger fan/Devil hater...but Brodeur is the best.

[Chubby]

this is such a tired argument. the devils played the "trap" for basicly the equvilent of 1-2 seasons and had 2 all star defensmn at the time. They were also one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL in that era.

They still play the trap, they are next to last in Goals Scored in the East (with a whole 1 goal more than Philly).

Just because you get sick of hearing the arguement as a Devils fan doesn't make it any less true.

[Lathum]

They still play the trap, they are next to last in Goals Scored in the East (with a whole 1 goal more than Philly).

Just because you get sick of hearing the arguement as a Devils fan doesn't make it any less true.

thats this year, over the last 10 years they have had some of the higher scoring teams.

[Chubby]

06-07 27th NHL
05-06 22nd NHL
03-04 14th NHL
02-03 14th NHL
01-02 20th NHL

They barely crack average, certainly wouldn't be classified higher scoring.

[sabotai]

Except that Brodeur was also in his prime at the same time and he was winning cups and beating Hasek's teams in heads up series...

And Hasek played on a team with no talent at all. In seasons where Broduer was facing 1600-1700 shots with save percentages around .910, Hasek was facing well over 2000 shots with saves percentages of .930 and higher. Neither Roy nor Broduer come close to the save percentages that Hasek routinely put up. And Hasek's GAA was compareable to Broduer's, despite facing many more shots. Hasek's team lost because they could never score, on any goalie. You can't hold that against Hasek.

[Maple Leafs]

Roy. But check back with me in two years.

[Karim]

Playing in NJ's system detracts from Brodeur in my eyes, although he will end up surpassing Roy's records, was a better stickhandler and had a better temperment.

I still remember when Roy winked at Tomas Sandstrom in the finals after stoning him for the umpteenth time. That was the sort of attitude that Roy had. And not to mention the incredible OT record that Canadiens team established. Technically (and in a few more years statistically), Brodeur is arguably better but as the saying goes, if there is just one game to win for the Stanley Cup, I'm taking Roy.

[Draft Dodger]

I'm a diehard Avs fan, and, honestly I would have a tough time deciding. I think Karim summed it up very well - both had tremendous skill, Brodeur gets points for being excellent with the puck, Roy owns that je ne sais quois - that flair, attitude, whatever you want to call it. I think I'd pick him, but it wouldn't be an easy decision, and I could totally see how someone would go with Brodeur.

Hasek is a baby and a quitter. He doesn't belong in this thread.

[ISiddiqui]

They still play the trap, they are next to last in Goals Scored in the East (with a whole 1 goal more than Philly).

Just because you get sick of hearing the arguement as a Devils fan doesn't make it any less true.

Sometimes I wonder if hockey fans know exactly what the 'trap' is. Simply playing defensive hockey doesn't make a team play "the trap". And Hell, the Canadians liked to play in the 60s and 70s (according to Larry Robinson, who was a big part of that team) because it gave them a lot of turnovers that they turned into goals. The neutral zone trap definately has that ability.

The Devils send far more forecheckers than they did under Lemaire's reign. Hell, it isn't like Pat Burns or Claude Julien are known for being trapping coaches.

[Kevin]

While both Roy and Brodeur are great goaltenders, there are three other names that can never be left out of such a discussion:

Terry Sawchuk
Jacques Plante
Vladislav Tretiak

Most people who saw the classic New Year's eve game between Montreal and Central Red Army 30 years ago still say that Tretiak's performance may have been one of the greatest games in net of all time.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Will first echo others who mention other names. But it is so difficult to compare over eras.

With these 2, there was at least an overlap of about 6-8 years.

Wasn't Brodeur supposed to be exposed coming into the 05-06 season, since the game would open up, his team wouldn't be able to clog center ice, and he was playing without Stevens and Niedermayer?
All he's done this season is post numbers as good, or better, than he did prior to the lockout.

For people saying the NJD trap/play little offense, and that makes his job easier-- that is alot of one-goal wins, magnifying what he does.

This time last year, there was an argument over Jagr or Thornton (or Kipper) for the Hart. And I think the same arguments are valid here-

Jagr made Michael Freaking Nylander look like a #1 center. That is difficult to do! Brodeur is making Johnny Oduya, Matt Greene and Brad Lukowich look pretty damn good.