The Copa America Thread

[MrBug708]

Mexico is up 2-0 on Brazil thus far. Once again Mexico rises to the occaision when playing a great team after choking vs the US

[Blade6119]

And if the US goes out and blows it, everyone outside of our region will forget we beat them in the gold cup

[cthomer5000]

And if the US goes out and blows it, everyone outside of our region will forget we beat them in the gold cup

Yeah, even though we're sending a B-team and Mexico has the same squad at Copa America.

[MrBug708]

Yeah, even though we're sending a B-team and Mexico has the same squad at Copa America.

They didnt gut their team like the US did, but they dont have the same squad either I dont believe

[cthomer5000]

CONCACAF 4 LYFE

[Critch]

Main thing about tonight's game was that it showed Brazil can't play a B team and expect to win anything anymore. That was as bad a Brazil team as I've seen.

So far it's been 4 good games, but the refereeing and the atmosphere in the stadiums has been lacking.

[cthomer5000]

Main thing about tonight's game was that it showed Brazil can't play a B team and expect to win anything anymore. That was as bad a Brazil team as I've seen.

So far it's been 4 good games, but the refereeing and the atmosphere in the stadiums has been lacking.

Im not too sure the offsides call wasnt right there. Hard to deny that a guy in the 8 yard box isnt interfering with the play.

[Critch]

Im not too sure the offsides call wasnt right there. Hard to deny that a guy in the 8 yard box isnt interfering with the play.

Yeah, that one was at least defendable. The Peru and Chile offsides, plus the Venezuela last minute penalty were a bit more clear cut.

[Mr. Wednesday]

They didnt gut their team like the US did, but they dont have the same squad either I dont believe
Borgetti and Guardado out due to injury
Pardo, Osorio, and Salcido (I think) out due to European demands
I might be missing one or two on top of that.

They probably have about the same number of starters from the Gold Cup final as we have, but I think they're closer to having their first-choice backups (which I guess is something of an oxymoron :p).

[Mr. Wednesday]

Yeah, that one was at least defendable. The Peru and Chile offsides, plus the Venezuela last minute penalty were a bit more clear cut.
There were two bad offsides calls in the Ecuador-Chile game in the second half, one each way, so they kinda evened out. (Gol TV's feed didn't replay the one that went against Ecuador, but I did check it on my Tivo.)

[Critch]

They probably have about the same number of starters from the Gold Cup final as we have, but I think they're closer to having their first-choice backups (which I guess is something of an oxymoron :p).

Their backup goalkeeper did ok.

[Blade6119]

Their backup goalkeeper did ok.

Francisco Guillermo Ochoa has long been labeled the future gk for mexico, and has garnered a lot of interest from europe. I dont think its much of a stretch to consider him the best mexican gk, but like keller and the US, sanchez gets starts due to his experience.

[cuervo72]

Is this thread about a Spanish-Language superhero? Do we need a spoiler tag?

[moriarty]

They probably have about the same number of starters from the Gold Cup final as we have, but I think they're closer to having their first-choice backups (which I guess is something of an oxymoron :p).

The funny thing is Castillo starts for their 'B' team which might make them better than their 'A' team. :)

[Mr. Wednesday]

I was talking about the Gold Cup final, which was their best game in the tournament by a fair margin from all reports, and Castillo started in that game.

Someone said on BigSoccer that they only carried over something like three starters from the GC final. In addition to the guys I mentioned earlier, Medina also suffered an injury.

[moriarty]

I was talking about the Gold Cup final, which was their best game in the tournament by a fair margin from all reports, and Castillo started in that game.

Someone said on BigSoccer that they only carried over something like three starters from the GC final. In addition to the guys I mentioned earlier, Medina also suffered an injury.

Ah, ignore me. I don't know what the hell I was referring to. :o I think i was mixing Castillo and Blanco up.

[astrosfan64]

So who do you think our starting lineup will be?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Somebody on BigSoccer divined the following from allocation of players in a Studio 90 segment:

Keller - Wynne, DeMerit, Conrad, Bornstein - Olsen, Clark, Feilhaber, Mapp - Johnson, Twellman

I'd be a little surprised by the Johnson-Twellman pairing, and by Bornstein playing instead of Pearce, but otherwise it's about what I would have expected (modulo uncertainty about whether Keller or Guzan would be the primary keeper in this tournament).

[astrosfan64]

Somebody on BigSoccer divined the following from allocation of players in a Studio 90 segment:

Keller - Wynne, DeMerit, Conrad, Bornstein - Olsen, Clark, Feilhaber, Mapp - Johnson, Twellman

I'd be a little surprised by the Johnson-Twellman pairing, and by Bornstein playing instead of Pearce, but otherwise it's about what I would have expected (modulo uncertainty about whether Keller or Guzan would be the primary keeper in this tournament).

I'm pretty excited to see the Feilhaber and Clark paining in the middle. I also really like Mapp.

It will be interesting to see how Wynne will do.

[Blade6119]

I'm pretty excited to see the Feilhaber and Clark paining in the middle. I also really like Mapp.

It will be interesting to see how Wynne will do.

For once i agree with you, though like mr. w im sad to see bornstein starting over pearce

[cthomer5000]

Can someone tell Colombia the tournament is underway?

[MJ4H]

I think they just got told.

[Flasch186]

woohoo

[cthomer5000]

dream start

[VPI97]

HELL YEAH

[VPI97]

D'oh!

[cthomer5000]

come on guys, come the fuck on

[Critch]

Friggin directv. It's not even raining that hard.

[Flasch186]

boohoo

[DaddyTorgo]

fuckers! I forgot the game was on at 8:30 and just watched an hour of the nfl draft and missed the first 15 minutes. how are we 1-1 already? who scored?

[DaddyTorgo]

nice play by mapp there!

[DaddyTorgo]

omg...is that Veron I just saw?? when did he get a call-up to the ARG squad again?

[DaddyTorgo]

hahah. EJ just got STRIPPED

[VPI97]

fuckers! I forgot the game was on at 8:30 and just watched an hour of the nfl draft and missed the first 15 minutes. how are we 1-1 already? who scored?
Eddie Johnson breakaway + great pass = EJ taken down from behind in the box. He converted the penalty only to see Argentina answer less than two minutes later.

[DaddyTorgo]

the boys are playing better than I expected they would, tbh. they're keeping up for the most part

[cthomer5000]

Bornstein playing fantastic so far

[cthomer5000]

good half boys!

[cthomer5000]

I fear the last 15 minutes are going to be a non-stop assault on the USA goal. Argentina can bring in some difference makers against tiring guys while we can just bring in fresh legs really.

[Critch]

Whoever that is in the studio with Ray Hudson has a normal sized head but an absolutely massive body. It's like he's wearing a padded suit.

[cthomer5000]

Whoever that is in the studio with Ray Hudson has a normal sized head but an absolutely massive body. It's like he's wearing a padded suit.

Phile Schoen, and it's so true. When I first saw him that was my exact thought.

[moriarty]

Good half. Complete F-up on that set piece though ... looked like 7 guys played offside trap and 3 guys didn't get the message (I think Wynne actually played him on).

We need some work on our set pieces (both offensive/defensive) and we need to keep the ball a bit after a turnover ... but impressive for this squad to hang together like they have.

[DaddyTorgo]

if we can weather the early storm and sit back and counter-attack we could come out of this with a good result. Don't know that we have the talent to convert the limited # of chances we would get though.

either way...key is to weather the initial storm as ARG is sure to come out fired-up

[Blade6119]

I may be mistaken, but havent we had penalty kicks in like our last 7 games? We have no offense other then dive and pray

[DaddyTorgo]

keller shoulda had that

[cthomer5000]

nice play by Argentina, but that ball was practically right where you would have wanted it if you were keeper.

[DaddyTorgo]

how the FUCK did they just let him run in there unmarked!?!?!?

[cthomer5000]

the fatigue kicked in about 15 minutes earlier than i expected... this could get ugly by the end if they arent careful

[astrosfan64]

I tired of Keller in goal.

[cthomer5000]

Frankensteain (Tevez) is on the field.. look out!

[DaddyTorgo]

off comes messi & on comes tevez? that's really not fair.

"Hi we're going to take off one wunderkid and put on another."

[cthomer5000]

I tired of Keller in goal.

you cannot POSSIBLY be blaming him for that 3rd goal, can you?

[DaddyTorgo]

I tired of Keller in goal.

he had no chance on that 3rd goal, but the 2nd he should have had.

[astrosfan64]

Watching this team makes you really like, Beasley and Donnovan. I still think Ching is our best striker.

Our best US lineup would of won this game I think.

BTW, compared to the mexico game last week, this game looks like slow mo

[astrosfan64]

he had no chance on that 3rd goal, but the 2nd he should have had.

I agree with you, I'm just tired of him in goal. This team is supposed to be about our young players getting experience etc... So why play him?

He should of had the first goal also. He was real slow coming off the line.

[astrosfan64]

Is everyone else stuck watching this in Spanish? I am here in houston and have digital cable, only spanish here.

[cthomer5000]

I agree with you, I'm just tired of him in goal. This team is supposed to be about our young players getting experience etc... So why play him?

Because all our good young keepers are in Europe, and those teams don't have to release the players since the USA was an invitee to this tourney.

[DaddyTorgo]

ugly

*barf*

[astrosfan64]

ugly

*barf*

Wasn't that offside?

[cthomer5000]

Now it's painful watching a game that could have been a 2-1 loss turn to 4-1 or worse.

[DaddyTorgo]

SICK run by Tevez though. All credit to him for that. Caught the defense totally flat-foot and napping

[DaddyTorgo]

Wasn't that offside?

I don't know how close it was.

Tbh since it got to 3-1 I just have it on in the background while playing FM. i've stopped paying 100% of my attention to it

[astrosfan64]

I don't know how close it was.

Tbh since it got to 3-1 I just have it on in the background while playing FM. i've stopped paying 100% of my attention to it

I'm doing the same thing.

[cthomer5000]

I feel pretty neutral to maybe slightly positive about the performance. The final score is a little misleading, but the USA just ran out of gas about about the 60 minute mark and it killed them against such a quality team.

The set pieces (both offensively and defensively) were absolutely terrible.

[DaddyTorgo]

given that was a case of "c" team versus "a" team, but that was a pretty dramatic + ugly collapse. those guys should have been able to hold it together a little better than that.

[Blade6119]

Because all our good young keepers are in Europe, and those teams don't have to release the players since the USA was an invitee to this tourney.

What...who? Howard is in europe, but who besides him? What good young keepers, pray tell?

Seitz and Guzan are both MLS, and i dont know who else you mean.

[moriarty]

I think it's time for Keller to hang it up too. He looked shaky in the gold cup and shaky on the first two goals (last two no one was stopping). He's still pretty good, but time to let some youngsters besides Howard get some PT.

EJ looked like the old EJ in the first half, then just gassed after the second half. Of course so did most of the team. Our subs were basically pointless (I thought Gaven was a waste). Overall I'm pleased with the first half, disappointed with the second.

Edit - Our problem in this tournament is where are the goals going to come from? Unless EJ scores in the first half of the next two games we're going to have a hard time scoring.

[GoldenEagle]

The US was just outclassed today. That is the best team in the world. You just shake their hands and say you are better than we are. The US did not bunker and played some quality football at times. We will see how the next two games go.

[GoldenEagle]

What...who? Howard is in europe, but who besides him? What good young keepers, pray tell?

Seitz and Guzan are both MLS, and i dont know who else you mean.

Westberg is in France and there is a young keeper going to Everton when he turns 18. He might already be there.

[GoldenEagle]

The US is using this as a developmental tournament. Bradley picked players from MLS who are not having great seasons, but he is attempting to get them back on track. Remember when Gaven and Wynne were wonder boys? Now they lack confidence and he is trying to help them find it.

I think Keller is just about done. He is too slow off his line for the international game. I love Keller and his contributions to American goalkeeping, but it is time for him to step down.

We played Argentina toe to toe for 65 minutes because we pressured them in the midfield. When you Argentina space, you are going to get beat. We ran out of gas. I know Bradley did not want to mess up the chemistry but Beckerman should have come on earlier.

Bornstien was the MoTM in this game, if we had one. I don't know where Ray Hudson got Eddie Johnson from. His touch is much improved, but he is slower now. He is not the same kid he was when he came up.

[GoldenEagle]

I am pretty amazed at the people on BigSoccer. I am reading one of these analysis thread and people are being way over critical. I guess they expected us to come out with that squad and beat Argentina.

Wynne seems to be the target for everyone. I thought he played ok. He marked Messi for crying out loud. I think Wynne's game needs to improve, but he is young and it will. Yes, he blew a couple of offside traps but it was first international game and that is going to happen.

[Shkspr]

I am pretty amazed at the people on BigSoccer. I am reading one of these analysis thread and people are being way over critical.

Good evening, and welcome to FOFC News. In tonight's top story, Internet users have an inflated sense of critical acuity. Film to follow.

[MrBug708]

Guarding Messi in your first INT'L isn't an easy task

[cthomer5000]

I am pretty amazed at the people on BigSoccer. I am reading one of these analysis thread and people are being way over critical. I guess they expected us to come out with that squad and beat Argentina.

Wynne seems to be the target for everyone. I thought he played ok. He marked Messi for crying out loud. I think Wynne's game needs to improve, but he is young and it will. Yes, he blew a couple of offside traps but it was first international game and that is going to happen.

Wynne was awful. I think he's learned some REALLY bad habits in MLS, where his speed is such an advantage in recovery. You cant constantly give your guy 20 yards of space when the opponent is Argentina.

[astrosfan64]

Wynne was awful. I think he's learned some REALLY bad habits in MLS, where his speed is such an advantage in recovery. You cant constantly give your guy 20 yards of space when the opponent is Argentina.

Agreed, he looked pretty bad.

[Solecismic]

Carlos Tevez again. There's a name I hope I never hear again as long as I live, being a Sheffield United supporter. Should know the Blades' fate in a day or two.

[cthomer5000]

Carlos Tevez again. There's a name I hope I never hear again as long as I live, being a Sheffield United supporter. Should know the Blades' fate in a day or two.

The only thing that can possibly happen is finiancial compensation. I would say there is about 0 chance they send West Ham down at this point.

And you forgot how quickly things move in the decision making process. Even if this pending decision breaks Sheffield United's way, that only means its time for a new FA panel to rule on the situation again. This is a ruling on whether the first ruling sucked, not a new ruling itself.

[moriarty]

Wynne was awful. I think he's learned some REALLY bad habits in MLS, where his speed is such an advantage in recovery. You cant constantly give your guy 20 yards of space when the opponent is Argentina.

I didn't think he was that bad ... and I'm not sure i can count too many times he gave someone 20 yards of space. He was going up against some excellent wingers and held his own fairly well for his first cap.

His biggest problem IMO (as I think GE pointed out) was that he trailed the line a few time ruining our offside trap. I'm fairly sure on the first goal he played the guy onside (although there were 2 others that came close as well).

He's not ready for prime time yet, but he's still quite young and didn't hurt his chances in my book. The thought of the speed with bornstein and Wynne coming up from the back makes me drool. Now if we could find a striker that fast ...

[chesapeake]

Is everyone else stuck watching this in Spanish? I am here in houston and have digital cable, only spanish here.

Trust me, the commentary was better in Spanish. According to the "English" commentary provided by Ray Hudson, I watched the most courageous performance by a US side since they beat England in 1950.

15 minutes of Ray is amusing. 90 is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

[cthomer5000]

USA scenarios:

Mexico must beat Chile today for the USA to be technically alive tomorrow. A draw or a win for Chile and the USA is officially done.

USA also realistically needs Brazil to not lose. If Ecuador beats Brazil, the USA will have to win by an absurd amount of goals (4+) to advance.

Really, the USA needs Mexico to win by 2-0, or by 3 goals or more if Chile manages to score in the game.


CT's USA advancement scenario:

Mexico beats Chile 2-0, or if Chile scores Mexico wins by 3 or more goals
Ecuador doesn't beat BrazilIf those two things happen, the USA would need to just win while scoring 2+ goals to advance (actual margin of victory wouldn't matter, but scoring 2 goals would be essential).

dream scenario would be a Mexico 3-0 win over Chile (and Ecuador not winning) which would then make any USA win good enough.


This is a situation where the cheap goals the US let up in the first two games could really bite them in the ass.

[DaddyTorgo]

Brazil vs. Ecuador tonight for all those not interested in fireworky junk

[cthomer5000]

Gotta love a second game that borders on match-fixing... two teams that are perfectly content to kick it back and forth all night when a tie works for both. (Mexico-Chile)

[Critch]

Gotta love a second game that borders on match-fixing... two teams that are perfectly content to kick it back and forth all night when a tie works for both. (Mexico-Chile)

It looked to me that Chile were playing for the win, they were unlucky too as they should have had a penalty. Mexico were playing for the tie while resting most of their first team, but this was nothing like the Venezuela v Uruguay game with both teams settling.

[cthomer5000]

It looked to me that Chile were playing for the win, they were unlucky too as they should have had a penalty. Mexico were playing for the tie while resting most of their first team, but this was nothing like the Venezuela v Uruguay game with both teams settling.

I'll agree that the Uruguay game was WAY worse. It was really beyond ridiculous. This was to a lesser degree, but pretty much the same thing.

USA doesn't deserve to advance anyway... now they can play some more borderline/youngsters and get them a good look tomorrow.

[B & B]

Gotta love a second game that borders on match-fixing... two teams that are perfectly content to kick it back and forth all night when a tie works for both. (Mexico-Chile)

Finally, things going the way theyre supposed to in this tournament. Draw +220, I love it when a plan comes together.

[MIJB#19]

Gotta love a second game that borders on match-fixing... two teams that are perfectly content to kick it back and forth all night when a tie works for both. (Mexico-Chile)Welcome to the world of soccer.

Actually, the result perfectly fits in how the tournament has been set up, with the group 'draw' and playoff tree setup. I really don't understand why Mexico would want to win that group, 2nd place means a much easier path to the final. In fact, one could argue that this was the best possible result for Brazil, they just had to advance and avoid winning the group. Now, Mexico is destined to play Argentina in the quarterfinals, or Paraguay in the quarters and Argentina in the semis (providing they actually beat Paraguay). Brazil really sneaked into the cupcake part of the playoff three, with both third placed teams and a very likely semi's matchup against Venezuela.

[cthomer5000]

Great to see the USA D team lose today. :rolleyes:

[MrBug708]

Did anyone just watch the Brazil game? I think Uruguay has a legit complaint on that last PK kick...as soon as the ref blew his whistle, the GK ran straight out and blocked the shot

[cthomer5000]

Did anyone just watch the Brazil game? I think Uruguay has a legit complaint on that last PK kick...as soon as the ref blew his whistle, the GK ran straight out and blocked the shot

Yeah, there is coming off your line and then there is that... he was WAY the hell off the line before the PK taker kicked the ball.

[Oilers9911]

Yeah, there is coming off your line and then there is that... he was WAY the hell off the line before the PK taker kicked the ball.

Yeah, he did come off his line early. However I think the pk would have been right at the keeper anyway. Perhaps the keeper rushing out had alot to do with it. I can't complain too much since Dudek did the same thing to help Liverpool win with Champions League in 05. :)

[Mr. Wednesday]

What...who? Howard is in europe, but who besides him? What good young keepers, pray tell?

Seitz and Guzan are both MLS, and i dont know who else you mean.
Seitz is playing quite well with the U20s. Not sure what faults have him behind Rimando at ISL.

[cthomer5000]

Argentina in 2010 is going to be scary.

Mexico could have been so in this game though, 2 shots off the post when they had absolutely fantastic opportunities.

[Critch]

Messi's goal from last night to make it 2-0:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YBHC3MQexg

[Critch]

So Brazil won the final 3-0. Fairly disappointing game, other that the first 15 minutes when Brazil opened the scoring and Argentina hit the post. Two nice goals and an own goal finished Argentina off.

Brazil's tactics were similar to Mexico's v Argentina, kick Riquelme hard and as often as possible til he vanishes into his shell. Worked perfectly, flow of play would be Riquelme gets the ball, Riquelme gets kicked for a freekick, Riquelme tries the same lofted freekick into the area yet again, Juan heads it clear.

The defense looked very familiar with that play.

[flere-imsaho]

That must piss Argentina off. My understanding is that they went all out this year to try and win the thing while Brazil didn't necessarily field their best team.

[Critch]

Yeah, Brazil were missing a handful of their best players who wanted to rest. No Ronaldinho or Kaka, they took along mainly inexperienced squad players. Argentina were at pretty much full strength.

Second time in a row Brazil have sent a weakened squad and beaten Argentina in the final.

[B & B]

This is truly a horrible, horrible time of year for sports.

Sadly, I was flipping between this game which had the makings of a classic where everyone was worred that Argentina would run away with it. The og broke their backs and spirit. 2h was a snoozefest.

The best alternate sports event was NOT the WNBA All-star game but the yawner that was the Sheetrock 400. Highlighted by one mediocre crash and Lil E driving 180 without power steering.


3 weeks away from preseason

6 weeks away from college football.

Stay on target. Stay on target.