FIFA U-20 World Cup

[RPI-Fan]

This is starting right now on ESPNU; Brazil v. Poland is in the first match.

U.S. is in a group very much like its 2002 World Cup group (Brazil is stacked like Portugal was, South Korea is the best in Asia as they were in 2002, and Poland beat out some real powers to qualify, again just like 2002). What's unlike 2002 is that the U.S. has to be considered 2nd-favorites in the group.

We don't have to play Brazil until the 3rd game, so I hope we go out there and play with style. The Koreans will certainly run at us, so I think our quality could come through today. Would not be at all to see 5+ total goals in our opener.

[Easy Mac]

The ref is doing everything in his power to make sure Brazil wins

[Easy Mac]

wow poland with the huge upset over Brazil. A man down for about the last 70 minutes and they held on. That throws the whole group into the air now.

[Easy Mac]

Quick thoughts:

Is anyone playing in midfield for the US? I know we have Bradley playing around the D-mid, but I don't think there's anyone else.

The Koreans are far quicker than our defense. Rongen got the back line completely wrong for us. Tim Ward has been beyond shit at left back. I don't think he has 1 completed pass. They're just going overtop every time, we've got to do something about that.

The Koreans fall almost as much as the Portugese.

Good finish by Szetela though.

[Easy Mac]

Shocking, Ward lost his man on the goal... though to be fair, the Korean was a good step offside.

[lynchjm24]

Ward has played as bad as a player can be.

[Easy Mac]

Yes! Ward back out in the second half. Its great to be a Korea fan... oh wait I'm rooting for the US....

[Easy Mac]

probably my last thoughts on the game because i'm getting really pissed:

Good > Average > Bad > Horrible > Shit > Tim Ward > Referee.

I'm pretty sure Ward and the ref will rip off their jerseys at the end and show Korea kits

[Big Fo]

Good result getting the draw there, South Korea were all over us the first sixty minutes. The team looked better towards the end and Adu had some good moments in the second half. Hopefully we have someone else in the squad that can play left back.

[GoldenEagle]

I missed the game. I do not have ESPNU. In my opinion, we had to win this game to have a chance at advancement.

[RPI-Fan]

Here's my thoughts:

-The outside backs were horrendous. Ward in particular. I like that he can step up and hit some nice crosses, and am in fact willing to sacrifice a little defense for that luxury. But he played absolutely no defense all game, and had no control of anything from the back all game. Almost teed the Koreans up early with a terrible clearing header right to the top of the 18, with no pressure on him. Beltran didn't have as much pressure on him, but the Korean's weren't as good on the left either. Him and Ward both were terrible on the ball anywhere other than the attacking third. They consistently dribbled into trouble and made off-target passes.
-The center-halves were actually pretty solid. It was insane how many x-on-2 breaks there were for Korea. Sturgis in particularly was courageous. But I don't fault these guys for anything. They actually performed pretty admirably given how out of position Ward and Beltran were.
-Not sure why Szetela came out -- he wasn't carrying a card and was at least one of the few players we had pressuring the Koreans. Goal was well taken. I thought he was among our better players, so I didn't like that sub.
-No clue why Enzo Ferrari stayed on the bench. This game was begging for him. Tall, lanky, drifts out wide and dribbles well. The Korean outside backs were giving us space; Gabe would have been the perfect player to exploit it.
-Rogers was very weak. Drew the non-call penalty, but other than that was very quiet. A couple nice end-line crosses, but really did not insert himself into the game at all.
-Bradley played very poorly. He is silky smooth usually, but didn't show it today. He was not thinking quickly at all. And, he had no bite in defense. He has way more quality than he showed today, and it was disappointing that he couldn't step up.
-This game begged for Adu to assert himself. Especially in the first half, when we had a lot of counterattacking opportunities. Freddy simply did not step up. He has historically been pretty awesome with the U-20's, and in this game that set up perfectly for him, it was nothing short of disappointing that he couldn't make things happen. His set pieces were stellar.
-Zizzo was a dud. Decent enough cross on the goal, but most of the time he was just stepping on Altidore, Adu, and Beltran's toes and not being prodcutive at all. Should have been out for Ferrari at halftime or soon after.
-Altidore got hacked all game long, but still found a couple of chances that he could have done more with. In particular, the low Ward cross in the first half. He didn't attack the ball and tried to "push" it into the net (ended up whiffing on it alltogether). Should have been more aggressive in trying to win the ball back. The Korean attackers put so much pressure on our d-mids, while Altidore was jogging and ball-watching a lot. Hard to fault Altidore when he had so little support from Zizzo and Rogers, though.
-I wasn't quite as fond as McCarty as the announcer. He was "lively", but we're Americans and we don't need to appreciate that as much as the Brits. We need players who can make quality touches and show some class in their passes, of which McCarty did neither.
-The ref was SOOOOOO BAD. He really did have an effect on the game. The U.S. got so tentative after the first half-hour because the ref was calling every single fucking 50-50 ball against the U.S. It really did just get out of hand. Korea got to do whatever they wanted, while we were penalized for phantom foul after phantom foul. Simply attrocious.
-For the next game, I'm pretty sure we'll see Wallace in for Ward. Also would hope to see Ferrari in for Rogers (who is carrying a yellow and was silent today). Might see Akpan out right, replacing Zizzo.

Very disappointing. :(

[lynchjm24]

The US was lucky to get the tie. They played like absolute dogshit for the final 5 minutes.

[RPI-Fan]

The US was lucky to get the tie. They played like absolute dogshit for the final 5 minutes.

I don't necessarily agree with that. While Korea had an arguable goal waved off, the U.S. also had a CLEAR penalty denied, and saw Altidore miss one should-have-been goal, and another could-have-been, all in the first half.

Given the circumstances (horrendous reffing, weird field turf that we couldn't get used to), I'm not too, too displeased with what went down. But, we'll need to play better to earn the full points verse Poland.

How do they determine which 3rd-placed teams go through?

[Easy Mac]

I'd argue this US side is more suited to play well against a team like Poland than a team like Korea.

[Easy Mac]

Here's my thoughts:

-The outside backs were horrendous. Ward in particular. I like that he can step up and hit some nice crosses, and am in fact willing to sacrifice a little defense for that luxury. But he played absolutely no defense all game, and had no control of anything from the back all game. Almost teed the Koreans up early with a terrible clearing header right to the top of the 18, with no pressure on him. Beltran didn't have as much pressure on him, but the Korean's weren't as good on the left either. Him and Ward both were terrible on the ball anywhere other than the attacking third. They consistently dribbled into trouble and made off-target passes.
-The center-halves were actually pretty solid. It was insane how many x-on-2 breaks there were for Korea. Sturgis in particularly was courageous. But I don't fault these guys for anything. They actually performed pretty admirably given how out of position Ward and Beltran were.
-Not sure why Szetela came out -- he wasn't carrying a card and was at least one of the few players we had pressuring the Koreans. Goal was well taken. I thought he was among our better players, so I didn't like that sub.
-No clue why Enzo Ferrari stayed on the bench. This game was begging for him. Tall, lanky, drifts out wide and dribbles well. The Korean outside backs were giving us space; Gabe would have been the perfect player to exploit it.
-Rogers was very weak. Drew the non-call penalty, but other than that was very quiet. A couple nice end-line crosses, but really did not insert himself into the game at all.
-Bradley played very poorly. He is silky smooth usually, but didn't show it today. He was not thinking quickly at all. And, he had no bite in defense. He has way more quality than he showed today, and it was disappointing that he couldn't step up.
-This game begged for Adu to assert himself. Especially in the first half, when we had a lot of counterattacking opportunities. Freddy simply did not step up. He has historically been pretty awesome with the U-20's, and in this game that set up perfectly for him, it was nothing short of disappointing that he couldn't make things happen. His set pieces were stellar.
-Zizzo was a dud. Decent enough cross on the goal, but most of the time he was just stepping on Altidore, Adu, and Beltran's toes and not being prodcutive at all. Should have been out for Ferrari at halftime or soon after.
-Altidore got hacked all game long, but still found a couple of chances that he could have done more with. In particular, the low Ward cross in the first half. He didn't attack the ball and tried to "push" it into the net (ended up whiffing on it alltogether). Should have been more aggressive in trying to win the ball back. The Korean attackers put so much pressure on our d-mids, while Altidore was jogging and ball-watching a lot. Hard to fault Altidore when he had so little support from Zizzo and Rogers, though.
-I wasn't quite as fond as McCarty as the announcer. He was "lively", but we're Americans and we don't need to appreciate that as much as the Brits. We need players who can make quality touches and show some class in their passes, of which McCarty did neither.
-The ref was SOOOOOO BAD. He really did have an effect on the game. The U.S. got so tentative after the first half-hour because the ref was calling every single fucking 50-50 ball against the U.S. It really did just get out of hand. Korea got to do whatever they wanted, while we were penalized for phantom foul after phantom foul. Simply attrocious.
-For the next game, I'm pretty sure we'll see Wallace in for Ward. Also would hope to see Ferrari in for Rogers (who is carrying a yellow and was silent today). Might see Akpan out right, replacing Zizzo.

Very disappointing. :(

McCarty was absolutely atrocious, easily the second worst player on the field. There were 4 or 5 times when Korea just took the ball right off his foot.

Adu was actually pretty good, when he got a chance on the ball. There just wasn't anyone to play him the ball. His run into the box showed why he's easily our most dangerous player.

[RPI-Fan]

I'd argue this US side is more suited to play well against a team like Poland than a team like Korea.

I thought we were perfectly set up for Korea. The Koreans are always going to move forward in numbers, and our strength lies in our middle three (Bradley and Danny in the back of midfield, Adu at the point of attack). So, theoretically, we should have had plenty of chances to win the ball in the middle third and get Adu in positions to run at people. That just didn't happen though, due to a number of factors (1. referee, 2. field turf, 3. Bradley not thinking as quick as usual, 4. Adu not demanding the ball).

[MrBug708]

Here is a semi on topic question. I see Rossi has some U21 caps for Italy. Does that end his shot as a US call up hopeful?

[RPI-Fan]

Here is a semi on topic question. I see Rossi has some U21 caps for Italy. Does that end his shot as a US call up hopeful?

Whether or not he can officially play for the U.S. if he wants to is irrelavant; he has no desire to play for us and will not play for us.

At this point, however, he cannot play for us. He would have had to switch from Italy to USA by his 20th birthday (had he not played for Italy in any of their official U-x matches, he could choose which country anytime he wanted).

[lynchjm24]

I don't necessarily agree with that. While Korea had an arguable goal waved off, the U.S. also had a CLEAR penalty denied, and saw Altidore miss one should-have-been goal, and another could-have-been, all in the first half.

Given the circumstances (horrendous reffing, weird field turf that we couldn't get used to), I'm not too, too displeased with what went down. But, we'll need to play better to earn the full points verse Poland.

How do they determine which 3rd-placed teams go through?

I was just commenting based on getting to the last five minutes tied 1-1, the US proceeded from that point to do everything in their power to lose. They played very well from the 70th - 85th minute or so. Not having the clock on the screen is stupid though, thanks ESPNU.

[RPI-Fan]

I was just commenting based on getting to the last five minutes tied 1-1, the US proceeded from that point to do everything in their power to lose. They played very well from the 70th - 85th minute or so. Not having the clock on the screen is stupid though, thanks ESPNU.

The clock thing was ridiculous; although to be fair they were using the English World Feed (like other channels do for F1 racing); no reason they couldn't have overlaid it themselves though. Hell, they showed who won the women's division III NCAA cross-country championship about 20 times more than they showed the time/score of the game. :eek:

[MrBug708]

Whether or not he can officially play for the U.S. if he wants to is irrelavant; he has no desire to play for us and will not play for us.

At this point, however, he cannot play for us. He would have had to switch from Italy to USA by his 20th birthday (had he not played for Italy in any of their official U-x matches, he could choose which country anytime he wanted).

Thanks. I knew he had no desire, I was wondering if he was cap tied yet is all.

[Blade6119]

Anyone else think seitz could be the real thing? i loved him in the first game, and am really starting to believe the hype

[MrBug708]

Really? I thought he was awful myself...

[RPI-Fan]

Really? I thought he was awful myself...

I thought he was quite good. Granted, on the goal he showed a lot of the net. But he was fearless on a couple other occasions. The one that sticks out to me is when the Korea guy tried to juggle around him, and he went full-stretch to snag it right out of the air. If he really gets confidence in himself and truly takes command of the box, he will be simply scary.

[Blade6119]

ESPN Ratings:

Player Ratings (scale of 1-10)

Chris Seitz, 8 -- Stole a point for the Yanks, pure and simple. Got off his line quickly to force the Korean strikers to rush their shots and made three key second-half saves. Man of the match.

Tim Ward, 3 -- Got caught sleeping on the goal, one of the many times South Korean attackers blew by him. Looked tentative on the ball, and was bailed out by Seitz twice in the second half.

Nathan Sturgis, 4 -- His first-half gaffe nearly led to a Korean goal. Looked shaky all afternoon and was caught out of position on several occasions. Not the type of performance you want from your top back.

Julian Valentin, 5 -- After some early jitters, was barely noticeable, which is a good thing for a defender. Helped keep the back line organized in the second half after a disjointed first half.

Tony Beltran, 5 -- Saved his team by blocking a goal-bound blast from close range after Sturgis' mistake in the box. Teamed well with UCLA teammate Zizzo on the right flank.

Michael Bradley, 5 -- Didn't have his best day but was still a class above the rest of the midfield. Missed a couple of tackles but also snuffed out several fires when he tracked back to help the back four.

Danny Szetela, 5 -- Made a great far-post run to nod home the U.S. goal, but did little else. Couldn't maintain possession and turned the ball over in dangerous areas of the field repeatedly.

Robbie Rogers, 5 -- Served several nice crosses in from the left side, one of which Altidore probably should have buried. Tracked back well on defense. Still, didn't provide much substance.

Freddy Adu, 5 -- Showed a glimmer of individual brilliance by beating two defenders off the dribble to set up a second-half scoring chance, but overall a forgettable display. Was easily and repeatedly muscled off the ball by the swarming Korean midfielders.

Jozy Altidore, 5 -- Whiffed on a golden first-half chance to tap home Rogers' cross from close range. His physical play gave the Korean backs fits on the rare occasions he got the ball near the goal. Didn't get much service from Zizzo and Rogers on the wings, or from Adu in the midfield.

Sal Zizzo, 6 -- Was lively on the right wing all game. Didn't combine well with Altidore, but was still the Americans' most dangerous attacker.

Subs:

Dax McCarty, 4 -- Spelled Szetela in the 52nd minute with Rongen searching for better possession. He helped with that a bit, but his off-target shots and crosses left a lot to be desired.

Doug McIntyre is a soccer columnist for ESPN The Magazine and ESPNsoccernet.

[lynchjm24]

Really? I thought he was awful myself...

I don't see how. It could easily have been 3 or 4 instead of 1.

[MrBug708]

I thought he was quite good. Granted, on the goal he showed a lot of the net. But he was fearless on a couple other occasions. The one that sticks out to me is when the Korea guy tried to juggle around him, and he went full-stretch to snag it right out of the air. If he really gets confidence in himself and truly takes command of the box, he will be simply scary.

I thought he was probably more lucky then good myself. But sometimes it's better to be lucky then good

[RPI-Fan]

I thought he was probably more lucky then good myself. But sometimes it's better to be lucky then good

Well, he made himself big, and put pressure on the Koreans. So while it looks like he got "lucky" they were flubbing shots, to me it had little to do with luck. It's how Friedel has made a career.

Seitz also had very good distribution.

[bbor]

Wow...Canada is shit....Chile horrible outplayed them.....

Watched Japan v Scotland.......Japan appears very very good.....best ball movement i have seen in this tournament so far.They could be a real threat.

[Butter]

So, this is only on ESPNU?

[scooter]

I've been watching games on CBC (a Canadian channel we get here). I don't have GolTV - I think they've been showing most of the games.

[RPI-Fan]

I've been watching games on CBC (a Canadian channel we get here). I don't have GolTV - I think they've been showing most of the games.

In the U.S. it is only on ESPNU.

[Blade6119]

In the U.S. it is only on ESPNU.

And webcast

[GoldenEagle]

There is a hot rumor floating right now that Danny Szetela is going to Galatasary of Turkey. It would probably be a good move for him.

[Galaril]

And webcast

Yeah, not in the US.

[Blade6119]

Yeah, not in the US.
My buddy in south korea set up an internet webcast for me for the first game, wasn't a universal one like i was thinking...sorry

[GoldenEagle]

Are you going to hook us up with the link?

[Blade6119]

Are you going to hook us up with the link?

I leave for egypt and greece today, so hes not doing it anymore..sorry buddy

[Easy Mac]

The US-Poland game is on right now. Since most everyone is now getting home from work, I won't say the scoreline yet. Currently at the half. A replay is on ESPNU at 10 pm tonight.

US up 3-1 at the half with 2 from Adu and 1 from Szetela

[Easy Mac]

Readable spoilers start with this post:
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Danny Szetela gets his second with a wonderful finish on a long pass through the middle. He's definitely leaving MLS soon.

Altidore just muffs a sitter.

4-1 US

[Easy Mac]

Joze grabs one on a cross from Rodgers.

5-1 US

Right now, we look to sit with 4 points and a 6-2 scoreline in our group. So as long as we don't piss ourselves against Brazil, we seem to be sitting well.

[Easy Mac]

Adu gets his hat trick. 6-1 US with an assist from Rodgers.

[MrBug708]

The polish forward who scored is an FM favorite of mine

[Easy Mac]

I missed Adu's first goal. Holy fuck that was sick.

[Blade6119]

Watching highlights of all the games so far on the fifa website, japan played some very nice soccer.

[SirFozzie]

Watched the goals on FIFA's website. Freddy won't score many better then that one, a 270 degree cut, on the right side of goal with his left foot, absolutely fucking awesome

[Big Fo]

I loved how half the Poland team wanted to swap shirts with Adu.

[Blade6119]

Poor Panama, argentina just scored 4 goals in 7 minutes on them :(

[RPI-Fan]

U.S.A. would take a MASSIVE collapse to not advance now. Group standings are going to be:

USA 4 +5 (6)
Poland 3 -4 (2)
Brazil 3 +2 (3)
South Korea 1 -3 (1)

4 points and goal differential should be way more than enough to move on. Let's focus on winning the group though!!!

[TroyF]

that goal by Adu was amazing. Terrific shot.

[Blade6119]

U.S.A. would take a MASSIVE collapse to not advance now. Group standings are going to be:

USA 4 +5 (6)
Poland 3 -4 (2)
Brazil 3 +2 (3)
South Korea 1 -3 (1)

4 points and goal differential should be way more than enough to move on. Let's focus on winning the group though!!!
If we lose to brazil, we will finish with 4 points. Brazil will have 6..fine, but then if poland goes out and beats South Korea(certainly possible), they have 6 points too. That would place us third...i dont see how us losing to brazil is a massive collapse, and losing to brazil could very well cost us advancement.

[MJ4H]

not so fast anyway

[SirFozzie]

Even if we lose, some 3rd place teams go through.

we'd have to have a massive loss.

[RPI-Fan]

If we lose to brazil, we will finish with 4 points. Brazil will have 6..fine, but then if poland goes out and beats South Korea(certainly possible), they have 6 points too. That would place us third...i dont see how us losing to brazil is a massive collapse, and losing to brazil could very well cost us advancement.

Umm, the only 4-point team to ever not go through was Zambia in 1999, and they had a -3 goal difference. We'd need to lose to Brazil by 8 goals to even have a CHANCE of that happening, and even then we'd still almost surely go through.

Not sure what the hell you're talking about???

[Huckleberry]

I would assume that he wasn't aware that some 3rd place teams advance. Probably figured it was like the World Cup.

I didn't know this until this thread.

[RPI-Fan]

I would assume that he wasn't aware that some 3rd place teams advance. Probably figured it was like the World Cup.

I didn't know this until this thread.

That's cool, but I've followed this thing like a mofo, and he tries to call me out on a perfectly reasonable analysis of the situation -- just a bit annoying.

[Karlifornia]

That's cool, but I've followed this thing like a mofo, and he tries to call me out on a perfectly reasonable analysis of the situation -- just a bit annoying.

Take it easy.

[MrBug708]

I'm guessing no one is watching?

[MJ4H]

i am

[MJ4H]

yay

[SirFozzie]

Uruguay are a punch of classless punks. Apparently being a sore loser is taught at all levels of the Uru national teams.

[moriarty]

Wasn't our best game. We probably got a little lucky there ... our 17 year old GK looked pretty shaky at times, I wasn't relishing penalty kicks.

Too bad they probably can't do much to those Uraguay hot heads at the end there. I couldn't figure out what got Bradley so pissed but I imagine he got punched or something. Edit: if Altidore can't play we may win one more game at most.

[Big Fo]

Mediocre performance, good result. I like our chances against the Austria/Gambia winner, especially if we get Altidore back.

Was Seitz injured or did Rongen just want to give the other guy a shot?

[marshall881]

Seitz was injured in training.
Something happened to him at the end of the last game, where he couldn't take the goal kicks.

[Icy]

And Spain won Brazil 4-2 and moves to the next round. I wonder why does our senior national team sucks so badly when we are always in the final rounds or even win all the World and Euro cups with our young teams.

[Desnudo]

Past results may not indicate future performance

[Katon]

And Spain won Brazil 4-2 and moves to the next round. I wonder why does our senior national team sucks so badly when we are always in the final rounds or even win all the World and Euro cups with our young teams.

There are two problems with using youth tournaments to predict senior-level performance. The lesser problem is that the best prospects often skip straight to the senior team - Brazil are missing Anderson from this tournament because he's with the senior team, for instance, and England's youth teams never got any help from Wayne Rooney. This problem is especially big at the higher age groups - the U-20s and U-21s - because that's where world-class prospects start to make themselves apparent.

The main problem is that a youth team which plays good football isn't necessarily a youth team that will contribute a lot to the senior team. How good the youth team is obviously depends partly on how well the players play together and on whether there's a decent player at every position. The senior team is usually constructed from a couple players from one youth team, a couple players from another generation, a few from a third group, and also some late bloomers. This means that how well the youth team plays together has a pretty limited impact, and whether it had some glaring weakness or not is often completely irrelevant.

As a hypothetical example, if the Czech Republic's current youth team has the worst keeper on the planet starting for it, they're going to lose a lot no matter how good the rest of the team is. But that keeper is completely irrelevant to the senior team because they've got Petr Cech. So a youth team which lost every match it ever played can still provide a significant boost to the senior side if it has a couple of good players at need positions. Conversely, the youth equivalent of 2004 Greece with excellent tactics and a lot of decent players but no real stars is probably not going to help the senior side all that much.

[cthomer5000]

I'm guessing no one is watching?

I dont get ESPNU... so i actually avoided the result, downloaded the game overnight, and watched it today.

I was stunned when they found a way to score a goal to send it to extra time, they seemed totally defeated at that point. They had some really good chances early then faded, then dug deep to pull it out.

As someone else said, mediocre performance/great result.

Lookin forward to the next game!

[Critch]

I caught the Argentina v Poland game this afternoon, Sergio Aguero is brilliant.

I believe Lionel Messi was young enough to play in the U20 too if he hadn't been snatched up by the real team. Messi and Aguero in the same team would have been unstoppable.

[MrBug708]

Congo had no touch but was in the game for most of it

[RPI-Fan]

Big game today...

Altidore and Seitz back according to FIFA.com, probably Zizzo also.

[bulletsponge]

woot what time?

[Eaglesfan27]

I believe it is 2:00 PM Eastern. Looking forward to the game.

[RPI-Fan]

Seitz, Altidore, Zizzo all good to go.

Valentin in the lineup. :(

[Karlifornia]

Damn, I wish I had ESPNU. It's not even on my list of channels.

[Scoobz0202]

All tied up at halftime. 1-1.

[SirFozzie]

Extra Time.. again.

[kingfc22]

Is the US really fouling that much more than Austria? And if so are they that severe to earn 6 yellow cards?

All I have is the fifa matchcast. No ESPNU for me.

[GoldenEagle]

US got a case of the big head today. Everyone said they would have no problem beating Austira and they simply did not come to play.

[RPI-Fan]

That was very disappointing. :(

Austria was not particularly good -- certainly not as good as Brazil who we simply outran.

The cards got a bit out of hand, but most of them were somewhat defensible, and that ref is really good for the most part in terms of calling things even, so I can't really complain.