Werewolf L Kate Beckinsale - day 7, deadline Thursday 10pm Eastern Time

[path12]

Tangle, why did you vote for Alan?

[path12]

I need to look at it some more, I have twice now. I don't like that last four vote sequence at all, but I want to ponder exactly what it is I didn't like. Besides the tie of course.

[Chief Rum]

I will also point out that in no time in MY pm did something happen to me that I can't explain :D

I haven't read the whole thread yet (just catching up), and I know you're intending a joke here, but are you saying you did receive a PM?

[Chief Rum]

You know, after the sequence of events that just occured, I am starting to side with you and AlanT. That last minute barrage does make you think. The fact that someone used something against AlanT makes me wonder if it were some sort of smokescreen to put our eyes on him. And now this anger for AlanT seems a bit odd. Right now, Chief Rum, LSG and Neon Chaos has me wondering about them.

Chief Rum is one of my candidates because he voted the odd man out. Not 100% sure on him, but suspicious.

LSG seems to want to pry the eyes away from Neon Chaos a little too hard. While I didn't understand the focus of his non-voting, I didn't understand why she began to mention that I had the same post count as him, because I might be next. I guess she doesn't realize there are others here with the same and that makes me wonder.

And the only reason why Neon Chaos suddenly became suspicious is that he could have easily changed his vote at the last moment, but I guess he didn't want to look too suspicious, so this barrage of votes for Barkeep came out of nowhere. Hmmmm.

lol...side with Barkeep and AlanT? You realize, they have pretty much been at opposites to one another the whole game, right?

Now, as to the rest of your post, while I agree with your opening premise regarding the possibility that AlanT's little PM might be a red herring (I mean, not a wolf thing), you go haywire after that. First thing, with your suspicion on me, I don't really understand what you're getting it. I voted for you as the other UTR type of player (like Neon Chaos), because I felt we needed another candidate and didn't like the early run on Neon Chaos. I wanted to be sure it wasn't a runaway where wolves could hide in a bandwagon. At the time, there was no momentum for BK, and Neon was the only candidate seriously at risk at that moment. I'm not really objecting to your point of view (yet), because I just don't have a clue what you're referring to by me voting "the odd man out", as you say. If you could clarify, I would appreciate it.

And your last paragraph about Neon seems to suggest he was around and didn't change his vote. And actually, he wasn't around at all from what I can see. Just like yesterday, he just flat missed the vote.

[Chief Rum]

Am I the only one (including st cronin appearantly!) that noticed that Neon_Chaos voted in post #318???

lol, I did forget about that. Looks like I wasn't alone. That's a pretty crappy way to vote, too. Now I remember why there was a run on him in the first place. Why on Earth were there enough votes on a contributing Barkeep to keep us from voting out Neon for missing a vote, and randomizing a Day Two vote and not posting or participating? At least I have the excuse of not being around at the deadline. What are your excuses (that's to everyone around at deadline, not to Telle)?

[Chief Rum]

Okay, I have finally caught up to myself.

I cannot believe you guys allowed us to go into a tie. Inexcusable. Going one day without a lynch is bad enough, but two?

And as I pointed out in the post before this, the right candidate was on the block in Neon Chaos, on the useless villager reasoning, which was a heck of a lot more than we had on anyone else as a potential wolf. If I had foreseen this nonsense, no way do I vote for Antmeister. But how could I have seen this coming?

I'm going to review the sequence of votes at the end, but I already have a couple people in mind that I think really made some odd, awful decisions here.

[Chief Rum]

Been busy with the little one's birthday party all day and trying to catch up with the posts.. but we're getting close to deadline..

VOTE BARKEEP49

We're six minutes to deadline when you post this. You offer no reasons whatsoever for this vote. But it moves the vote to 5 Neon, 4 BK (per Alan's last updated vote totals from about 40 mins prior). Before your vote, there's a little breathing room. Now it's a one vote difference, perhaps keying the deadline fireworks.

So given all that, I kinda want to know your reasoning for doing effectively a driveby voting on BK with no reason given.

[Chief Rum]

UNVOTE ALAN T
VOTE NEON CHAOS


*sigh*

This makes it 6-4 Neon Chaos. Sensible self-preservation vote. Just noting the sequence of votes here. There have been two votes now since Alan's vote update at 9:18 (which seems to be accurate other than Neon's missed vote on DT, but even if it was off a lot, that's the last tally everyone would have been going off of at this point).

[JHandley]

unvote neon chaos

vote barkeep


Would like to hear an explaination for this one. This is a huge vote swap.

[Chief Rum]

unvote neon chaos

vote barkeep


Ugh. Tied. Now 5-5 Neon Chaos, with three minutes to deadline. Not sure what to make of Render switching his vote. This is a highlight vote, IMO. We really need to take a closer look at this. Another driveby, no reason vote, and one with critical consequences.

Render later states he switched in anticipation of AlanT's vote, which he thought would be on Barkeep. While I can't argue the logic, I can argue that Render should have known that his vote would create a tie. And maybe he did know.

I also find it really odd that Render and Telle both made vote-closing moves one right after the other, considering they likely did it from the same computer. Not sure it means anything just yet, but I didn't want to ignore it either.

[Chief Rum]

Would like to hear an explaination for this one. This is a huge vote swap.

He offers this later.

Yeah, i am pretty stunned by Alan T's vote after all that yacking. I expected his vote to be on barkeep as well and shifted to him based on the ongoing conversation.

Stupid ties.

He even calls ties stupid after tying it with his vote. :rolleyes:

Render is by far from being the only guilty party in this SNAFU, but he is a prominent part of it.

[Neon_Chaos]

#1 - I did vote, and I believe I was among the very first to vote. Thanks to Telle for pointing that out.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=1512759&postcount=318

#2 - The reason I didn't change my vote is because it's the weekend over here, and I've been out. :) I joined the game on the understanding that we were going to start on Monday, but apparently everyone agreed to start over the weekend. So there's going to be one more gameday of me not being able to post much, sorry to disappoint, Barkeep and Chief Rum, but I've got limited access over the weekend.

#3 - Checking on the votes and the sequence in how they were cast, it's clear that things were set into motion to force the draw. In light of this, I will have to do my initial vote early again.

VOTE ALAN T

Chief Rum has stated several valid candidates and reasons to vote for me or anyone else. But for me, you had the chance to produce a result yesteday by voting for anyone but me, but you did not, instead pushing for the no-vote by voting me. If you turn out to be a wolf, then Barkeep is a wolf as well, and you're trying to play us by "looking" like you're at odds.

[Neon_Chaos]

dola,

Alan T, my reasoning is that you pushed the draw by NOT voting for Barkeep. Meaning you just saved Barkeep's ass. :)

[Chief Rum]

I have not read page 8 or 9, so this vote I am about to make is off of what little I have read and this post from Daddy. I totally agree that I think wolves are probably hiding in the Neon pile on, and there is probably a wolf that had a 'throw away vote' but if we are deciding to vote between Alant and Barkeep, and Alant got met by somebody last night, I kind of want to see what happens to alant over the next couple of days. I saw the word transformation mentioned, and I don't really know what that means, but I doubt a conversion happened on day 1.

So vote barkeep

I don't know how much blame to assess here. I know LSG was under the gun, and I doubt she was aware of the tally. She says she hadn't read pages 8 and 9, and there were several votes there.

The problem I see here is her reason for voting BK is to keep Alan around, but Alan only had one vote on him at the time. No pressure here at all. So why does he figure in a choice between BK and Neon?

I would see this as a good vote if LSG knew she was breaking a tie in favor of BK (6-5 BK at this point) and ensuring us a lynch (you would think), but I think it's clear she doesn't know at all at this point. So I'm not going to give her credit for the move.

[Neon_Chaos]

Whoa wait. I'm confused now. Whose vote caused the tie? AlanT's or RendeR's????

[Chief Rum]

VOTE ALAN T

Chief Rum has stated several valid candidates and reasons to vote for me or anyone else. But for me, you had the chance to produce a result yesteday by voting for anyone but me, but you did not, instead pushing for the no-vote by voting me. If you turn out to be a wolf, then Barkeep is a wolf as well, and you're trying to play us by "looking" like you're at odds.

Just to clarify--this message is directed at AlanT, right? Getting thrown by your mention of me.

And, BTW, sorry for missing your vote. Not sorry for saying it's a bad one, though. Nor am I giving you a free pass for the weekend thing, considering, well, it's the weekend here, too. It's not like the two sides of the Earth are three or four days apart. I understand the weekend getting in the way, but you also have to accept the consequences if you're playing and take actions (for whatever reason) that lead some to suspect you and view you as unhelpful from a village standpoint.

[Neon_Chaos]

Ok, just checked. It was AlanT.

So my vote and my reasoning of AlanT and Barkeep being in cahoots still stands.

[Chief Rum]

Whoa wait. I'm confused now. Whose vote caused the tie? AlanT's or RendeR's????

They both did. Render's tied it first. Alan's tied it again.

[Chief Rum]

VOTE ALAN T

Chief Rum has stated several valid candidates and reasons to vote for me or anyone else. But for me, you had the chance to produce a result yesteday by voting for anyone but me, but you did not, instead pushing for the no-vote by voting me. If you turn out to be a wolf, then Barkeep is a wolf as well, and you're trying to play us by "looking" like you're at odds.

Just to clarify--this message is directed at AlanT, right? Getting thrown by your mention of me.

And, BTW, sorry for missing your vote. Not sorry for saying it's a bad one, though. Nor am I giving you a free pass for the weekend thing, considering, well, it's the weekend here, too. It's not like the two sides of the Earth are three or four days apart. I understand the weekend getting in the way, but you also have to accept the consequences if you're playing and take actions (for whatever reason) that lead some to suspect you and view you as unhelpful from a village standpoint.

[Chief Rum]

Quite a pile up on Barkeep at the end there.

Vote Neon_Chaos

This is the vote that tied it up, 6-6. I would guess Alan voted this way (or wants it to look this way), because he was suspicious of the BK run. I can understand being suspicious of that. But even if you allow he wasn't fully aware of the tally, this is an irresponsible vote to make, knowing it is close and knowing you don't have the tally right in front of you.

And if he did have a tally and did know it would cause a tie, well, not sure what else to say about that. And Alan isn't the sorta player who normally would do this without a tally, especially when he did the previous one at 9:18. It's just a really odd, weird vote and the results were catastrophic from a lynch point of view.

[Chief Rum]

I am ambivilant about lynching Neon Chaos. He is very unlikely to be a wolf, as even people who are busy will make time for a couple of posts minimum if they recieve a role pm. However he currently is adding nothing so is not that big a loss arguably.

However, I would rather have an inactive villager as a buffer of some sort than not try and hunt possible bad guys, therefore:

Vote Alan T

The pm has me suspicious. I don't see many ways losing your memory could be a good thing.

Finally, tanglewood. This move is pretty much as bad as the tie votes put up by Render and AlanT. This is an actual chance to break the tie and undo the fiasco, and he actively throws his vote away on someone not in contention. tangle explains not voting for Neon, but then why not vote for Barkeep? And are his reasons for voting for Alan and keeping us in a tie good enough to avoid the head-to-head at the deadline?

It's another very suspicious move. The last ten minutes produced so many possible wolf candidates, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to sort it out before the game ends, and that's even assuming there's a wolf run involved here somewhere (hard to believe there's not, but I suppose it's possible this is five random villagers actively working earnestly at random for their own reasons, but unknowingly screwing the village in tandem).

[Chief Rum]

So most suspicious out of this...


AlanT (one of the two tying votes, including the last one; had suspicious PM although admittedly he's the one who made mention of it in the first place; also made a critical nonvote on Day One at the deadline, avoiding the head-to-head like tangle did on Day Two)

Render (switched from Neon to BK and created the first tie, later crediting this switch to his belief in Alan's anticipated vote--working in tandem?; voted right after Telle also made controversial vote)

tanglewood (could have broke the tie right at the deadline, but didn't)


Next group...


Telle (driveby vote that initiated the rush on Barkeep, which also saw Render play a part; she is down lower because her vote didn't tie it or fail to break it)

LSG (I can't give her credit for breaking the tie, because I don't think she was aware of it; made vote that was inconsistent with posted reason, when Alan wasn't an issue in the vote)


Next group...


JHandley, DaddyTorgo, Antmeister...you all posted within 15 mins of the deadline either before or after it. That means you were likely around and could have changed your votes. At least you three were on the principals involved.


Yesterday's candidates...


Neon Chaos (seems unlikely to be a wolf, but hasn't been helpful, and that's not much better--offers an excuse any of us could make, and even being on the other side of an ocean isn't unique, with tanglewood actively participating)

Barkeep (say what you want about the other reasons to take a stand on him, which are legit, but his late vote was entirely consistent with saving his own ass)

[Chief Rum]

Caffeine rush ending...I'm going to bed.

[LoneStarGirl]

I knew when I woke up there would be a lot from Chief Rum, but good grief he took up a whole page by himself.

[LoneStarGirl]

There is a lot to go through after yesterday and a lot of questions I still have that I hope will be somewhat answered or at least addressed by the time I get back from umpiring today.

[Barkeep49]

Cronin can you give the final vote tally?

[Barkeep49]

I knew when I woke up there would be a lot from Chief Rum, but good grief he took up a whole page by himself.
I know! When CR plays it's like Christmas, or Tax Day, every day depending on what you think of his posts :)

[Barkeep49]

CR: My only cronin pm was the one I quoted in the message you got that line from. It had to do with his talking to me about his eyes.

[path12]

Neon Chaos (seems unlikely to be a wolf, but hasn't been helpful, and that's not much better--offers an excuse any of us could make, and even being on the other side of an ocean isn't unique, with tanglewood actively participating)

I'm willing to cut Neon a break. He specifically said in his message that he has limited access on the weekend and that the game start moving up wasn't something he expected. I don't know that he should be punished for that.

I think by far the more pressing issue than low participation for todays vote is the no lynch yesterday and those later votes.

[path12]

My vote is likely to go in the Render/tangle/Alan group. I really want to hear more from both Render and tangle about their votes.

[Lorena]

VOTE BARKEEP49

[Alan T]

This is the vote that tied it up, 6-6. I would guess Alan voted this way (or wants it to look this way), because he was suspicious of the BK run. I can understand being suspicious of that. But even if you allow he wasn't fully aware of the tally, this is an irresponsible vote to make, knowing it is close and knowing you don't have the tally right in front of you.

And if he did have a tally and did know it would cause a tie, well, not sure what else to say about that. And Alan isn't the sorta player who normally would do this without a tally, especially when he did the previous one at 9:18. It's just a really odd, weird vote and the results were catastrophic from a lynch point of view.

Remember with all the late voting, there was alot of crossposting, which means post then quickly catch up on what you missed while posting.

I decided to vote this way and even commented on the barkeep run before LSG even voted. Like you I'm not really blaming LSG for the vote that she did for the reason it happened. But her vote came in the middle of my giving a reason for voting Neon and then my vote. So at the time of my vote, I believed I was breaking a tie.

Then after my vote, I read to see what else posted at the same time, and indeed did know it was tied. I knew Tangle was left to vote, and posted my next comment that I wasn't going to move my vote and would leave it up to tangle .. I think I said something like "Lets see what tangle does now".

So yes, I willingly kept it a tie, but my fear was if I moved my vote somewhere else, I would end up just retying it up which was no good. So blame me for a tie if you want, but really anyone voting me for that reason is just using a copout vote.

If you want to vote me for not sticking to voting Barkeep, then I guess I can understand that reason better, but to vote me because of it being a tie, means you really didn't read the thread very well :)

[Alan T]

I know Chief already did alot of analysis on the end voting, but I'm a nice guy and want to provide my spin to it as well :) This time including in the timing of it all. Reading it after the fact makes things look alot different then actually experiencing it.


9:48 LSG checks in, has no idea whats happening and asks for help -

Okay guys I just got back from umpiring, I only have 10 minutes. Can anybody give me a run down?

9:54 Telle checks in as well stating she's been away also and makes a vote to bring things close.

Been busy with the little one's birthday party all day and trying to catch up with the posts.. but we're getting close to deadline..

VOTE BARKEEP49

9:55 - Barkeep switches his vote (as he had stated earlier in the evening that he would if it came to that close)

UNVOTE ALAN T
VOTE NEON CHAOS


*sigh*

9:57 - Render moves his vote, ties it up, gives no reason what so ever for the vote.

unvote neon chaos

vote barkeep


9:57 - My post, not very informative, but the late swing on Barkeep got my attention. At this point I decided I wasn't going to vote Barkeep. Since it was tied up, I decided I was going to vote Neon to unbreak the tie.

Hmm

9:57 - LSG rushes in a vote based on what she had read, even though she wasn't fully caught up yet. Her vote snuck in between my decision on where to go and what my vote was.

I have not read page 8 or 9, so this vote I am about to make is off of what little I have read and this post from Daddy. I totally agree that I think wolves are probably hiding in the Neon pile on, and there is probably a wolf that had a 'throw away vote' but if we are deciding to vote between Alant and Barkeep, and Alant got met by somebody last night, I kind of want to see what happens to alant over the next couple of days. I saw the word transformation mentioned, and I don't really know what that means, but I doubt a conversion happened on day 1.

So vote barkeep

9:58 - My vote, which ends up retying it, but at the time of my deciding to make this vote, it was actually tied. So my thoughts were that I was untying it with still LSG and Tangle left to vote. Because of crossposting, I didn't see LSG's vote until after I made this vote.

Quite a pile up on Barkeep at the end there.

Vote Neon_Chaos

9:59 - LSG commenting on her vote, and cross posts with my vote, so she believes that Barkeep is getting lynched as she likely hasn't seen my vote yet.

If Barkeep is not a wolf then I am sorry and I think we should look at those who pushed so hard for his lynching, in tomorrow's vote

9:59 - Tangle votes, and I -assume- that he hadn't seen LSG or my votes yet? Wasn't on either of the candidates leading, so I don't know if he knew it was a tie at all. Based on his next post, I assume he posted this while we voted, and didn't see our votes until after he made it.

I am ambivilant about lynching Neon Chaos. He is very unlikely to be a wolf, as even people who are busy will make time for a couple of posts minimum if they recieve a role pm. However he currently is adding nothing so is not that big a loss arguably.

However, I would rather have an inactive villager as a buffer of some sort than not try and hunt possible bad guys, therefore:

Vote Alan T

The pm has me suspicious. I don't see many ways losing your memory could be a good thing.

9:59 - Once gaain I crosspost, stating I wanted to see what tangle did... ie: I just realised we were tied, but knew Tangle was left to vote. And knew if I moved my vote to some third party candidate that if Tangle came in and voted Neon after I moved, it would retie it up. So since Tangle was left to vote, I would leave it up to him to break the tie.


Lets see what tanglewood does here







So thats how it went -with- the time. The arguement can be made that if you wait till the end to vote, you get stuck with the results of it. If you use that against me, then you should also use that against Tangle. He was here all day just like me, and just liike me he chose not to break the tie.

I don't really know if anyone there jumps out at me as a wolf though, LSG and Telle both mentioned they had been away, and I assume Render had been away also (Even though Render didn't have to feel compelled to have changed his vote).

And I don't find barkeep making a move he advertised well before that he would do suspicious.

[KWhit]

Remember with all the late voting, there was alot of crossposting, which means post then quickly catch up on what you missed while posting.

I decided to vote this way and even commented on the barkeep run before LSG even voted. Like you I'm not really blaming LSG for the vote that she did for the reason it happened. But her vote came in the middle of my giving a reason for voting Neon and then my vote. So at the time of my vote, I believed I was breaking a tie.

Then after my vote, I read to see what else posted at the same time, and indeed did know it was tied. I knew Tangle was left to vote, and posted my next comment that I wasn't going to move my vote and would leave it up to tangle .. I think I said something like "Lets see what tangle does now".

So yes, I willingly kept it a tie, but my fear was if I moved my vote somewhere else, I would end up just retying it up which was no good. So blame me for a tie if you want, but really anyone voting me for that reason is just using a copout vote.

If you want to vote me for not sticking to voting Barkeep, then I guess I can understand that reason better, but to vote me because of it being a tie, means you really didn't read the thread very well :)

I totally disagree. You've had two questionable votes in a row. I don't know if I'll be voting for you or not, but there's definite reason to do so.

And you should know that it is a bad idea to leave things in the hands of others. You saying that it was up to tangle to correct the issue you helped cause doesn't exactly look like you were doing everything you could to help the side of the villagers.

There's a lot of blame to go around, but you are certainly not immune.

2 no-lynches in a row. That really sucks.

[Alan T]

I totally disagree. You've had two questionable votes in a row. I don't know if I'll be voting for you or not, but there's definite reason to do so.

And you should know that it is a bad idea to leave things in the hands of others. You saying that it was up to tangle to correct the issue you helped cause doesn't exactly look like you were doing everything you could to help the side of the villagers.

There's a lot of blame to go around, but you are certainly not immune.

2 no-lynches in a row. That really sucks.

I don't think you fully read what I posted. If people want to get upset at me changing my mind on whom to vote for, or find who I voted for questionable, then I understand. I disagree fully though because I thought i gave a good reason for why I changed my mind (I am allowed to change my mind on people right?) However, to vote for me because I tied it up means you really dont understand what happened. (or you are trying to push some agenda)

[JHandley]

Alan, anything new with your condition?

[Telle]

We're six minutes to deadline when you post this. You offer no reasons whatsoever for this vote. But it moves the vote to 5 Neon, 4 BK (per Alan's last updated vote totals from about 40 mins prior). Before your vote, there's a little breathing room. Now it's a one vote difference, perhaps keying the deadline fireworks.

So given all that, I kinda want to know your reasoning for doing effectively a driveby voting on BK with no reason given.

Barkeep seemed suspicious to me. There's just something about his play that's not sitting quite right with me. I can't put my finger on it, but it looked like other people were picking up on it too. And I had been away all day with my son's birthday party and was trying to get caught up but the deadline was fast approaching.. but it was obvious it was coming down to either Barkeep or Neon Chaos, and I preferred voting for someone I was suspicious about rather than someone who just hadn't been very active.

Oh, and to answer another comment of yours.. RendeR and I have separate computers.

[Telle]

Alan, anything new with your condition?

And did anybody else have a similar experience last night?

[JHandley]

Next group...


JHandley, DaddyTorgo, Antmeister...you all posted within 15 mins of the deadline either before or after it. That means you were likely around and could have changed your votes. At least you three were on the principals involved.



Yes, I saw it all happen. Yes, I was paying attention. No, I didn't think I could do anything about it.

I couldn't figure out why people were voting for BK. Because he was aggressively going after Alan? Why the hell wouldn't he be aggressive after Alan? There's evidence to suggest that Alan is in trouble. Nothing good happens after blacking out and waking up. We know there's a Mad Scientist, we think he can convert villagers to wolves. What we don't know if whether this is what is happen to Alan or not.

I was advocating a position where we would wait for Alan to come up with more information today and if he was unable to, or it sounded fishy, then lynch his ass. I think BK's only fault was trying to lynch Alan too early. The same. If Alan doesn't come up with a damn good reason to make me look at someone else today (and it got to be better than "if you vote for me you're a wolf") I absolutely intend to vote for Alan.

I understand needing a lynch every day. I was on the side that wanted a day 1 lynch. I understand a stab in the dark, I understand lynching someone on suspecion alone, I do not understand lynching someone you believe to be a villager just to lynch someone, anyone.

[RendeR]

Barkeep seemed suspicious to me. There's just something about his play that's not sitting quite right with me. I can't put my finger on it, but it looked like other people were picking up on it too. And I had been away all day with my son's birthday party and was trying to get caught up but the deadline was fast approaching.. but it was obvious it was coming down to either Barkeep or Neon Chaos, and I preferred voting for someone I was suspicious about rather than someone who just hadn't been very active.

Oh, and to answer another comment of yours.. RendeR and I have separate computers.


My vote went from neon to barkeep based on the others votes making it close and my belief that alan almost certainly would vote for barkeep based on their day long diatribe. I would rather lynch someone that has a case against them rather than just for inactivity. Barkeep was the only other player with enough votes to move the lynch, hence my vote moved to him.

Alan's explanation, while plausible, is to me highly suspicious. Alan is too good at this game to go lame duck and let someone else decide things. His "lets see what tangle does" line just comes across to me as a weak excuse.

We do indeed have seperate computers, though we generally sit about 5 feet apart most of the time =)

VOTE ALAN T

[JHandley]

5 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393), Cartman
3 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349), Antmeister, Daddytorgo
2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)

This was the voting right before Telle added her vote to BK. Forcing BK to move his vote to Neon to save himself.

Why not vote for Alan here? That ties up Alan and BK which then allows people who don't think that BK is a wolf to move their votes from Neon to Alan.

[JHandley]

RendeR, why is the case against BK stronger than the one against Alan?

[Telle]

5 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393), Cartman
3 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349), Antmeister, Daddytorgo
2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)

This was the voting right before Telle added her vote to BK. Forcing BK to move his vote to Neon to save himself.

Why not vote for Alan here? That ties up Alan and BK which then allows people who don't think that BK is a wolf to move their votes from Neon to Alan.

Because I prefer to vote for someone I suspect of being a wolf rather than trying to play some numbers game with the voting.

[JHandley]

That's my point. Why do you suspect BK is a wolf and not Alan?<br>

[RendeR]

5 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393), Cartman
3 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349), Antmeister, Daddytorgo
2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)

This was the voting right before Telle added her vote to BK. Forcing BK to move his vote to Neon to save himself.

Why not vote for Alan here? That ties up Alan and BK which then allows people who don't think that BK is a wolf to move their votes from Neon to Alan.

A couple reasons:

#1 barkeep already has an edge, to lynch someone other than Neon Chaos i went with the guy closer in vote totals. its easier to get 2 votes than to get 3.

#2 We already know there is an issue with Alan, and during the whole back and forth with the two of them I became suspicious of both, to be honest I still felt more strongly about Alan, but knowing he has issues that may well lead to his lynching I figure we should take a chance taking out barkeep and perhaps snag 2 wolves playing the "lets fight each other and stay safe that way" gambit. Thern see #1, barkeep had the extra vote already, so go with BK, get him lynched because I was certain Alan would vote for him after the days arguments and we would lynch BK instead of a simply inactive Neon.

I was stunned that Alan voted for Neon instead of BK, what was the point of all the blathering all day long? If he weren't going to vote that way why on earth wait till the last instant to do so?

[Alan T]

Alan, anything new with your condition?

Nope, nothing at all. As far as I can tell, it was a one time thing.

[Telle]

That's my point. Why do you suspect BK is a wolf and not Alan?<br>

Well after Alan's odd (to me) vote last night, I now suspect him of being a wolf and in league with BK.

Basically, I found Barkeep's whole aggressive play against Alan a bit off. There wasn't anything to make me suspicious of Alan prior to him blacking out that night, so then the issue was that he might be in the process of conversion rather than being someone who's been a wolf all along. And I just don't think it makes sense to lynch Alan on suspicion of conversion based on that.. yet. My thinking was that whether the person who caused the blacking out was good or bad, it's possible that they could do it every night.. so then do we base who we lynch every day on who had that experience the previous night? It makes much more sense to take a "wait and see" approach.. find out if this keeps happening to people (not that anybody has much incentive to speak up now if it did happen to them last night.. they're likely to get lynched if they do now). And based on my very limited experience with this game, I just feel that Barkeep is a "thinker" and should have seen things from that angle, so him just jumping to lynch Alan seemed suspicious to me.

[RendeR]

Let me give my reasons for my vote on Alan T today so I don't have to go back and do it all again later.

#1 he had the night 1 issue that may or may not be a conversion attempt. That alone is suspicion enough for me to get him out of the game.

#2 yesterdays voting snafu just smells bad to me. Alan is a far better player than that. He was the one tracking votes, he knew what was happening and chose to tie the game and let someone else make the decision? I don't buy it.

#3 After the vehemence that he went after BK with all day he votes to force a tie with neon, someone who only garnered votes at all because he was non-existant for two days. Alan doesn't waste votes. I've watced him play a number of games now and read some of the older ones. Thats not a typical Alan T maneuver at all.

My guts tell me that all this adds up to Alan and BK playing one against the other to keep suspicion floting back and forth enough that we never manage to nab either of them.

[Alan T]

A couple reasons:

#1 barkeep already has an edge, to lynch someone other than Neon Chaos i went with the guy closer in vote totals. its easier to get 2 votes than to get 3.

#2 We already know there is an issue with Alan, and during the whole back and forth with the two of them I became suspicious of both, to be honest I still felt more strongly about Alan, but knowing he has issues that may well lead to his lynching I figure we should take a chance taking out barkeep and perhaps snag 2 wolves playing the "lets fight each other and stay safe that way" gambit. Thern see #1, barkeep had the extra vote already, so go with BK, get him lynched because I was certain Alan would vote for him after the days arguments and we would lynch BK instead of a simply inactive Neon.

I was stunned that Alan voted for Neon instead of BK, what was the point of all the blathering all day long? If he weren't going to vote that way why on earth wait till the last instant to do so?


Well you ever stop to consider, that i have no clue who is good and who isn't? All I have to go on is how people react, and there definitly was a huge run of people suddenly out of the blue wanting to vote Barkeep. With 5 minutes left, that set off all kinds of warning bells in my head.

On a day when you all don't know much of anything, you suddenly in the last 5 minutes believe someone is guilty and want to lynch him? I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. So I decided on a gut instinct there to change my mind.

If you don't think I play on gut instincts, you've never played with me before. As analytical as I am, I rely on my gut for who is good or bad as much as anyone.

If you think I pulled lame duck because I didn't make a change in the last 45 seconds, when I didn't know what tangle would do yet, you are out of your mind.

If you think Barkeep is a wolf and I was trying to save him, then you're incredibly crazy. Even I am not gutsy enough to try to put together a strategy to get myself and another wolf scanned and lynched within the first 3 days of the game. For as good of a wolf as some people give me credit for being, then turning around and saying I would pull a rediculously dumb move like that is non-sensical.

You people are coming up with all kinds of silly reasons to vote for people (even the ones not for me) right now. If I had to choose anyone out of the bunch there, I'm leaning towards voting Render or Tanglewood.

[Alan T]

Once again, if you people honestly think as a wolf, I would set myself up to try to be scanned and on the line in the first 2 days, you are absolutely out of your mind.

If I was a wolf, I wouldn't have revealed my night 1 PM.
If I was a wolf, I wouldn't have brought that much heat onto myself.
If I was a wolf, I definitly wouldn't be putting myself on the lynch line because of trying to vote for my gut or trying to manipulate the vote at the end of deadline.

I hate to say it, but a smart wolf writes off his own if they come up for a day 2 lynch. There is no way a wolf would go down with the ship to save his own that early in the game.

Today's arguements against me are even more rediculous than yesterday's were so far. The only one that makes any sense to me right now is Jhandley, who wanted to play a wait and see game, and well all I can tell you is if someone scanned me last night, I would have turned up human. I am human right now, and as far as I can tell, I will continue to be human.

[JHandley]

Can you elaborate on BK's wanting to lynch a player who might be converting being "a bit off"? <br>
<br>
We have almost no information at all. Between the weekend and the no
lynch, we were no better off on Saturday than we were on Friday. BK's
play just makes sense to me. I thought it was early but justifiable. <br>

[Alan T]

Let me give my reasons for my vote on Alan T today so I don't have to go back and do it all again later.

#1 he had the night 1 issue that may or may not be a conversion attempt. That alone is suspicion enough for me to get him out of the game.

#2 yesterdays voting snafu just smells bad to me. Alan is a far better player than that. He was the one tracking votes, he knew what was happening and chose to tie the game and let someone else make the decision? I don't buy it.

#3 After the vehemence that he went after BK with all day he votes to force a tie with neon, someone who only garnered votes at all because he was non-existant for two days. Alan doesn't waste votes. I've watced him play a number of games now and read some of the older ones. Thats not a typical Alan T maneuver at all.

My guts tell me that all this adds up to Alan and BK playing one against the other to keep suspicion floting back and forth enough that we never manage to nab either of them.

You are entirely out of your mind.

#1 I have never heard of a 3 day slow-conversion, and haven't received anything to make me think it was one. I have played in MANY games where someone had an action that could inhibit other people's night actions. If anything, you know I didn't kill JE. There is absolutely no reason to believe I was converted over any of the rest of the people. Its always a losing proposition to try to go after people who may or may not be converted before you go after people who started the game evil. Pushing people down this strategy is even worse than a no-lynch.

#2 You talk about me being smart enough to avoid a tie, yet you either refuse to read what was posted about it, or are purposely trying to ignore it. You causing a tie was far more deliberate than anything I did. My causing a tie was due to A) LSG voting at the same time as me B) Tanglewood voting for a third party... You causing a tie was due to your pre-meditated choice to. So for you to bring this nonsense up is only trying to hide yourself from your own actions.

#3 you obviously haven't read or watched enough games with me in it then. I always play by my gut and try to use analysis to tell me what that gut feeling is. Some time you should read the old games with Blade and me in it. I often would scream at him all day long and vote for someone else.

You are trying to throw everything at the wall and see what can stick.

[Telle]

Can you elaborate on BK's wanting to lynch a player who might be converting being "a bit off"? <br>
<br>
We have almost no information at all. Between the weekend and the no
lynch, we were no better off on Saturday than we were on Friday. BK's
play just makes sense to me. I thought it was early but justifiable. <br>

He was pushing REALLY hard against Alan. And as I stated above, I didn't think it made sense to lynch Alan immediately rather than waiting a day or so.. and I found it odd that Barkeep wasn't thinking along those lines too. Add that to his uncharacteristic no-lynch vote from day 1.. things just didn't seem right with Barkeep.

[cartman]

I just got back from another long night out with my cousins. Thankfully, not as much to ready today as there was yesterday.

The scenario I thought might play out with votes switching from Neon Chaos did indeed come to fruition. Based on the suspicious plays, I'm now firmly in the camp that Alan T is a wolf. Not much else to go on for us except voting patterns.

I'm going to be out of pocket the next several hours, as I'm about to hit the road back to Austin. I should be back online sometime after 4pm.

VOTE ALAN T

[Alan T]

I have a feeling you people aren't even reading the posts.

[Alan T]

Well I'm going out for a bit, looks like you all are doing a bandwagon on me that won't teach you anything.

1) If I was a wolf, I never would have revealed what happened to me night 1.
2) A Run away vote tells you nothing. (Since I'm human it will let the wolves all just pile on and escape notice)

I can gurantuee what will happen now. You will lynch me, find I'm human then everyone will then go after Barkeep and lynch him and I'm guessing find he is human. Then you would have wasted 4 days now and gotten no where.

Watch the list of people who vote me today, I gurantuee you that some wolves will try to slide in there.

(4) Alan - Gonzo (474), Neon_Chaos (512), Render (540), Cartman (554)
(1) Barkeep - Dodgerchick (531)

[Telle]

At this point, I'm still inclined to go after Barkeep before Alan.

VOTE BARKEEP49

[KWhit]

I don't know what to think about Alan yet. At this point, I'm inclined to think he's a villager. He's got a big spotlight on him already because of the PM, so he's a likely target for a seer scan. It probably makes sense to play wait and see on him.

[Barkeep49]

So I decided to put together a time line of votes, which has been done separately in a couple of places but I like to see it all together. I included times for the ones at the end, as DT's vote was an hour an a half, I believe, before deadline.

282 - Path votes for Render (Render 1)
318 - Neon votes for DT (Render 1, DT 1)
320 – BK votes for Neon (Render 1, DT 1, Neon 1)
326 – DC votes for Lathum (Render 1, DT 1, Neon 1, Lathum 1)
328 – BK unvotes for Neon, votes for Alan (Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Alan 1)
344 – Kwhit votes for Neon (Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Alan 1, Neon 1)
348 – Render votes for Neon (Neon 2, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Alan 1)
349 – Lathum votes for BK (Neon 2, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Alan 1, BK 1)
356 – Gonzo votes for Alan (Neon 2, Alan 2, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, BK 1)
388 – JH votes for Neon (Neon 3, Alan 2, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, BK 1)
393 – Schmidty votes for Neon (Neon 4, Alan 2, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, BK 1)
395 – CR votes for Ant (Neon 4, Alan 2, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, BK 1, Ant 1)
397 – Ant votes for BK (Neon 4, Alan 2, BK 2, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Ant 1)
402 – Cartman votes for Neon (Neon 5, Alan 2, BK 2, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Ant 1)
405 – DT votes for BK (Neon 5, BK 3, Alan 2, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Ant 1)
417 (9:54) – Telle votes for BK (Neon 5, BK 4, Alan 2, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Ant 1)
419 (9:55) – BK unvotes Alan, votes Neon (Neon 6, BK 4, Alan 1, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Ant 1)
421 (9:57) Render unvotes Neon, votes BK (Neon 5, BK 5, Alan 1, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Ant 1)
423 (9:57) LSG votes for BK (BK 6, Neon 5, Alan 1, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Ant 1)
424 (9:58) Alan votes Neon (BK 6, Neon 6, Alan 1, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Ant 1)
426 (9:59) Tangle votes for Alan (BK 6, Neon 6, Alan 1, Render 1, DT 1, Lathum 1, Ant 1)

[Barkeep49]

At this point, I'm still inclined to go after Barkeep before Alan.

VOTE BARKEEP49
Remind me of the reasons against me?

[JHandley]

Tangle, why did you vote for Alan?
Which should actually be phrased: Tangle, why did you throw away your vote?

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm okay with alan. And I think odds are barkeep is good also and we have the old "2 villagers poking at each other" thing going here.

With all of the analysis that's been done while I slept all the day...I'm leaning towards RendeR. But I think we absolutely need a lynch.

[Gonzo]

Once again, if you people honestly think as a wolf, I would set myself up to try to be scanned and on the line in the first 2 days, you are absolutely out of your mind.

If I was a wolf, I wouldn't have revealed my night 1 PM.
If I was a wolf, I wouldn't have brought that much heat onto myself.
If I was a wolf, I definitly wouldn't be putting myself on the lynch line because of trying to vote for my gut or trying to manipulate the vote at the end of deadline.

This all makes great sense, apart from the fact that in all probability you thought you were a human and still think you are a human. If we're dealing with some sort of slow conversion, this defense doesn't really work.

[Alan T]

This all makes great sense, apart from the fact that in all probability you thought you were a human and still think you are a human. If we're dealing with some sort of slow conversion, this defense doesn't really work.


Ok, since you are so hung up on the slow conversion angle.. Please list me every WW game we've had here that has had slow conversion without a doctor role.

In return, I'll list every game that has had someone with the ability to prevent someone else from a night action.

In the end, I bet my list will be much much longer than yours, if you even have a list.

[Alan T]

Dola,

And how long does this slow conversion take? 1 day? 2 days? a week and a half?

are they supposed to put me on at 450 degrees and let me boil for a month?

[st.cronin]

Cronin can you give the final vote tally?


Day 2 official final vote

6 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393), cartman (402), Barkeep49 (419), Alan T (424)
6 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349), Antmeister (397), DaddyTorgo (405), Telle (417), RendeR (421), LoneStarGirl (423)
1 - Alan T - Gonzo (356), tanglewood (426)
1 - RendeR - path12 (282)
1 - Lathum - Dodgerchick (326)
1 - Antmeister - Chief Rum (395)
1 - DaddyTorgo - Neon_Chaos (xxx)

[Barkeep49]

Dola,

And how long does this slow conversion take? 1 day? 2 days? a week and a half?

are they supposed to put me on at 450 degrees and let me boil for a month?
I would suggest 2-3 days. We're now on Day 2. For me, it'll either be by the end of Day 3 or never. And if someone doesn't have a similar experience to yours by tomorrow I think that only adds to the evidence against you.

[Barkeep49]

FTR, I'm holding off on my vote until I see how a few people vote. A couple who I think I might trust, and a couple of whom I am suspicious about. I wish there was another candidate besides myself and Alan to chose from, to make things more interesting, someone like Render. I'm still fine in voting off Alan, though in some ways at this point I'd rather wait until tomorrow when we'll find out if he turned into a wolf for sure, or if this was just a false lead. Because at this point it could be either way and so if he turns up human, I would still say it's 50/50 that he was in the process of converting.

[Chief Rum]

Oh, and to answer another comment of yours.. RendeR and I have separate computers.

Heh heh wasn't sure. :p

[Chief Rum]

We do indeed have seperate computers, though we generally sit about 5 feet apart most of the time =)

lol, I'll bet it would be fun to be a fly on the wall if you guys are crossposting at deadline in a WW game, especially if either of you are a wolf (not saying, BTW, just think the image is funny). :)

[Alan T]

Not really a topic for this thread, but on a related note, I would love to hear how hard/easy it is being a wolf when in the same game as a villager Significant other. I'm not sure if any of our couples have had that happen or not, but I would wonder how you would get away with the communications with other wolves without being noticed in RL.

[Chief Rum]

Some time you should read the old games with Blade and me in it. I often would scream at him all day long and vote for someone else.

Isn't that MO for everyone playing Blade? :)

[Alan T]

Isn't that MO for everyone playing Blade? :)

Well from the last few games, I've gotten the impression that everyone feels that way about me too. :(

[Chief Rum]

Okay, I may be around later to change this, but I'm going to vote now and not get caught up in deadline voting unless I have to. Especially with two two-job days coming up after today (where I almost certainly will be checking in at or near deadline).

There are too many gut things to me that say Alan is not a wolf for me to ignore. The most plausible theory I have heard that he is a wolf is the one where he and BK are playing off of one another. It would be an amazing play, but those two are good enough and confident enough in themselves to try it.

But that's a low percentage shot, IMO. It's far more likely one or the other is a wolf. I don't think Alan is a wolf right now.

But I don't really like the BK angle either. There is more "evidence" against Alan than BK, IMO. With BK, it's all circumstantial, and strangely enough we have had this sort of evidence come up with BK before, too, and have it end up he was a villager (I am thinking two games ago, Alan's game). So I'm not leaning toward Barkeep right now either.

The group think seems to be to let Neon go because it's the weekend, and I would certainly turn away from "the useless villager" theory in favor of going after a wolf if we have that option. Neon gets a short leash, though, if we return from the weekend and he's just as unhelpful.

I can buy Alan's crossposting list of events for the deadline, so I won't vote to lynch tangle right now. Plus, I want to hear more from him about last night. But definitely someone I am keeping an eye on. Keep in mind, even if he failed to see LSG and Alan's final votes, he was still working with a tie between BK and Neon. LSG and Alan voted opposite of one another in the final tally.

I'm going to go with Render for now. His anticipating Alan's move still doesn't settle with me right. I believe there has to be a wolf in that group somewhere (at least one, if not more), so I'm going to go off my gut for now.

VOTE RENDER

[Chief Rum]

Well from the last few games, I've gotten the impression that everyone feels that way about me too. :(

Not really, from my perspective. After spending all day yelling at you, I vote for you. ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

Okay, I may be around later to change this, but I'm going to vote now and not get caught up in deadline voting unless I have to. Especially with two two-job days coming up after today (where I almost certainly will be checking in at or near deadline).

There are too many gut things to me that say Alan is not a wolf for me to ignore. The most plausible theory I have heard that he is a wolf is the one where he and BK are playing off of one another. It would be an amazing play, but those two are good enough and confident enough in themselves to try it.

But that's a low percentage shot, IMO. It's far more likely one or the other is a wolf. I don't think Alan is a wolf right now.

But I don't really like the BK angle either. There is more "evidence" against Alan than BK, IMO. With BK, it's all circumstantial, and strangely enough we have had this sort of evidence come up with BK before, too, and have it end up he was a villager (I am thinking two games ago, Alan's game). So I'm not leaning toward Barkeep right now either.

The group think seems to be to let Neon go because it's the weekend, and I would certainly turn away from "the useless villager" theory in favor of going after a wolf if we have that option. Neon gets a short leash, though, if we return from the weekend and he's just as unhelpful.

I can buy Alan's crossposting list of events for the deadline, so I won't vote to lynch tangle right now. Plus, I want to hear more from him about last night. But definitely someone I am keeping an eye on. Keep in mind, even if he failed to see LSG and Alan's final votes, he was still working with a tie between BK and Neon. LSG and Alan voted opposite of one another in the final tally.

I'm going to go with Render for now. His anticipating Alan's move still doesn't settle with me right. I believe there has to be a wolf in that group somewhere (at least one, if not more), so I'm going to go off my gut for now.

VOTE RENDER



well said. And as I said, I was leaning towards RendeR also, as I think with BK & Alan we have "villager on villager" likely. I also think Neon would be a good target, if just for his quietness, but as I stated earlier, I just think we need a lynch of some damm sort, and I was leaning towards RendeR based on his play so far.

I don't have the inclination to go back and dig up specific posts at this point, as that's not a huge part of my "style."

VOTE RendeR

[Barkeep49]

Well, since I suggested I woud be open to it, I too will vote for someone who causes a tie with two minutes to go, especially as that person is (to me) a known villager). Seems like it might be wolfish, though tangle's deadline voting more so. Anyhow I like having another person around for today's consideration. I'm going to cast, very open to change, a vote against Render therefore.

VOTE RENDER

[path12]

I'm a little surprised that Tangle isn't getting more attention. I'm obviously suspicious of Render by my vote for him yesterday, and if nobody follows me here I'll likely switch, but although Alan's vote was really not one of his better ones (and that I still wonder about that n1 PM), I think the reasons for him not being a wolf are better than either Tangle or Render.

I had Tangle flagged for making what I considered some reaching arguments about Barkeep yesterday (not up to finding the exact quotes right now), but I also agreed with a couple of his points, so was wondering how to read him.

But there was no excuse for his vote at the end.

VOTE TANGLEWOOD

[st.cronin]

vote count:

4 - Alan T - Gonzo (474), Neon_Chaos (512), RendeR (540), Cartman (554)
3 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574), DaddyTorgo (576), Barkeep49 (577)
2 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557)

do please let me know if I have made an error

[Chief Rum]

I'm a little surprised that Tangle isn't getting more attention. I'm obviously suspicious of Render by my vote for him yesterday, and if nobody follows me here I'll likely switch, but although Alan's vote was really not one of his better ones (and that I still wonder about that n1 PM), I think the reasons for him not being a wolf are better than either Tangle or Render.

I had Tangle flagged for making what I considered some reaching arguments about Barkeep yesterday (not up to finding the exact quotes right now), but I also agreed with a couple of his points, so was wondering how to read him.

But there was no excuse for his vote at the end.

VOTE TANGLEWOOD

As I noted above, he is definitely on my shortlist as well. But I am giving him a little leeway to respond to what has been coming at him, especially knowing he's well out of time zone with us here. If I wasn't satisfied with his response, I likely would vote him instead of Render.

[Chief Rum]

vote count:

4 - Alan T - Gonzo (474), Neon_Chaos (512), RendeR (540), Cartman (554)
3 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574), DaddyTorgo (576), Barkeep49 (577)
2 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557)

do please let me know if I have made an error

Well, path12 just voted, but my guess is he did that while you were compiling these votes.

[JHandley]

I'm trying to choose between Tangle, RendeR and Alan. I am going to try to get near a computer at the deadline to see how this one shakes out, but this is where I'm at right now.

There aren't enough people with no lives to verify or contradict Alan's story. I don't think we hurt ourselves giving him more time.

RendeR's tying up of the vote yesterday, particuarly taking it off Neon and putting it on BK is noteworthy. However, I can lend some believability to the idea of taking the vote off a inactive and putting it on an active, even if I don't believe BK was acting wolfish.

Tangle voting for Alan at the end was just mind-boggling. If you didn't want to vote for BK, vote for Neon to give us something to go on. I know it fractures the vote even more, but I gotta vote for Tanglewood here.

VOTE TANGLEWOOD

[RendeR]

Interesting that I get a grouping of votes all in a very short time (bout 30 minutes or so)

Jhandley makes a very good point here again about tanglewood's vote. While I can still be utterly mystified that Alan, after spending an entire day going after barkeep for whatever reason doesn't vote for him.. I have to be extremely suspicious of tangle's vote as he had the opportunity to lynch one or the other of Neon Chaos and barkeep.

I'm sorely tempted to follow Jhandley and path and move my vote to tangle but I'll hold off for now to see what happens closer to deadline.

[tanglewood]

If I realised it was a tie I would have broken it, but I missed JHandley's vote for NeonChaos on page 8 in my quick tally. Sorry guys.

Posted that a couple of minutes after the votes were counted. At the time I thought Barkeep was ahead and was going to be lynched. I posted my vote, saw Alan had not voted for Neon Chaos so quoted him with much suprise, then dashed through the thread quickly to tot up the votes with literally a few seconds left and got the addition wrong. Just a miscount. I definitley would have broken it, and probably voted for Barkeep, if I had known it was a tie. Lame excuse? Yes, but it's honest. I don't think a wolf would be quite so dumb to do that anyway.

[KWhit]

The late votes last night don't make a whole lot of sense, and to me the most suspicious one was from RendeR.

For now, I'm voting for him:

VOTE RENDER

I know I'm tying it up with that, but there's still over an hour left.

I HUMBLY SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE DON'T WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE TO VOTE UNLESS YOU'RE A WOLF. IT'S JUST TOO RISKY WITH THE VOTE SO CLOSE AND WE NEED A LYNCH TONIGHT!

[tanglewood]

One player I would like to hear more from is DaddyTorgo. Firstly he voted for No Lynch on day one, then voted for Barkeep on day two. That is an interesting combination already, as the main criticism of Barkeep on day two was he was acting out of character, particulary in pressing for a no lynch, thus inferring the logic of no lynch was flawed. So why agree with him on day one then not on day two?

Then he posts this just before on this page:

well said. And as I said, I was leaning towards RendeR also, as I think with BK & Alan we have "villager on villager" likely.

Changed his mind there awfully quickly.

I also think Neon would be a good target, if just for his quietness, but as I stated earlier, I just think we need a lynch of some damm sort, and I was leaning towards RendeR based on his play so far.

Now thinks Neon Chaos is a good target, but didn't vote for him yesterday. And also complains about not having a lynch, despite voting for no lynch on day one.

I don't have the inclination to go back and dig up specific posts at this point, as that's not a huge part of my "style."

VOTE RendeR

A typical wolf tactic is to latch onto long posts by villagers and then state "I agree" or as much in a more verbose manner and vote with them. An easy way to escape having to provide analysis whilst looking like contributing to discussion. Here DT quoted a long Chief Rum post and essentially stated "I agree" and voted with him.

Not to say all of this automatically paints DT a wolf. Lots of times villagers change their mind the next day and often a villager will quote a long post and agree with it. But I would like to hear his explaination in change of thinking from No lynch->voting for barkeep and no lynch->need lynch and barkeep->neon chaos.

[tanglewood]

Two other players also voted for No lynch on day one and then for Barkeep on day two: Telle and Antmeister. I'll dig up their reasoning in just a minute.

[KWhit]

Here the vote count I have:

4 - Alan T - Gonzo (474), Neon_Chaos (512), RendeR (540), Cartman (554)
4 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574), DaddyTorgo (576), Barkeep49 (577), KWhit (585)
2 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557)
2 - Tanglewood - path12 (578), JHandley (582)

[Antmeister]

The way I currently see it is that Neon Chaos was possibly a wolf and there was a last minute barrage to turn the vote elsewhere. I am glad that AlanT illustrated all the votes that came within that short window of time, because I am becoming really suspicious.

Vote Neon Chaos.

Damn it, he has to at least be a mad scientist.

[cartman]

Hmmm, not a lot really to go on so far today. Not sure if it is due to it being Sunday, and folks aren't around, or if there is just a general sense of confusion/lack of insight.

[Barkeep49]

I actually think, upon further reflection, I agree with Ant. What do we learn from a lynch from Render that we don't learn from Neon? If Neon is a wolf I think we'll be able to untangle who might have saved him, such as Render. And if he's a villager there's no reason a wolf would have tried to save him over me.

[DaddyTorgo]

One player I would like to hear more from is DaddyTorgo.

TEXT AND QUOTES IN THE MIDDLE

Not to say all of this automatically paints DT a wolf. Lots of times villagers change their mind the next day and often a villager will quote a long post and agree with it. But I would like to hear his explaination in change of thinking from No lynch->voting for barkeep and no lynch->need lynch and barkeep->neon chaos.

I will only dig deep and throw out long posts with tons of analysis when I have a reason to do so, like if I have a particuarly strong reason for feeling one way or another.

in terms of change of thinking:

1) No lynch on D1 seemed sensible, given that it was almost like a Night Zero.
2) My vote for for barkeep was based on his extreme pressure on Alan and feeling that that was suspicious and also noting that Barkeep arguing for no-lynch was very out of character for him.
3) As for why Barkeep vs. Neon Chaos...I felt that Neon Chaos deserved at least a little more leash as a newer player before we axed him, and as I stated, I felt Barkeep was acting suspiciously.
4) My thinking has evolved now to the point (due to the tie and all) to think that with Barkeep & Alan we are likely seeing the same-old villager-on-villager thing that we see EVERY DAMM GAME and that we get sucked into EVERY DAMM GAME.
5) Right now I'm focused on the late-voters last night, the RendeR and Tangle votes particularly. I think it's highly likely that one of those two is a wolf...doubtful that both are.

[DaddyTorgo]

I actually think, upon further reflection, I agree with Ant. What do we learn from a lynch from Render that we don't learn from Neon? If Neon is a wolf I think we'll be able to untangle who might have saved him, such as Render. And if he's a villager there's no reason a wolf would have tried to save him over me.

interesting point and way to look at it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Neon's also got the 2nd vote on Alan today...not that that means anything in particular.

I could certainly support a Neon vote, as long as we can be sure that we get a lynch. another day of no-lynch and we're really screwed

barkeep+kwit? if the 3 of us move that that will put neon on 4 along with alan

UNVOTE RendeR

[Barkeep49]

I felt that Neon Chaos deserved at least a little more leash as a newer player

Neon hosted some of the earliest games we have on FOFC. In fact, I think he's close below me for all time most hosted games. Granted he hasn't been playing lately, but Neon is no WW naif. He's been around to see most of the WW maneuvers around.

[Barkeep49]

Neon's also got the 2nd vote on Alan today...not that that means anything in particular.

I could certainly support a Neon vote, as long as we can be sure that we get a lynch. another day of no-lynch and we're really screwed

barkeep+kwit? if the 3 of us move that that will put neon on 4 along with alan

UNVOTE RendeR
Ok I'll move to Neon as well. I agree we can't afford another no lynch.

UNVOTE RENDER
VOTE NEON

I do feel bad that the game started early and put him in a bad position. I think it's unfortunate that lynching him trumps my meta-game sympathy to how he's played this game so far.

[Barkeep49]

Here's what I have for a vote count:

4 - Alan T - Gonzo (474), Neon_Chaos (512), RendeR (540), Cartman (554)
3 - Neon Chaos - Ant (589), DT (594), Barkeep (596)
2 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574), KWhit (585)
2 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557)
2 - Tanglewood - path12 (578), JHandley (582)

No votes: Lonestargirl, Schmidty, Alan T, Gonzo, Tangle

[Barkeep49]

I would expect that tangle and Alan would vote for sure, meaning that 4 should be enough to ensure that we don't no lynch based on non-voters.

[tanglewood]

Ok I'll move to Neon as well. I agree we can't afford another no lynch.

UNVOTE RENDER
VOTE NEON

I do feel bad that the game started early and put him in a bad position. I think it's unfortunate that lynching him trumps my meta-game sympathy to how he's played this game so far.

If we can't avoif another no lynch why are you voting for someone who currently has 1 vote? Even if the other two who have agreed to switch do so it still only ties it up at 4 each with Alan and Render with 3. Some way of guarenteeing a lynch.

[KWhit]

Here's what I have for a vote count:

4 - Alan T - Gonzo (474), Neon_Chaos (512), RendeR (540), Cartman (554)
3 - Neon Chaos - Ant (589), DT (594), Barkeep (596)
2 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574), KWhit (585)
2 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557)
2 - Tanglewood - path12 (578), JHandley (582)

No votes: Lonestargirl, Schmidty, Alan T, Gonzo, Tangle

That's not right. DT didn't vote for Neon. He just unvoted in 594.

[KWhit]

By the way, I might switch to Neon, but will only do so if enough others move so we don't tie it up.

[KWhit]

Here the vote count I have:
4 - Alan T - Gonzo (474), Neon_Chaos (512), RendeR (540), Cartman (554)
2 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574), KWhit (585)
2 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557)
2 - Tanglewood - path12 (578), JHandley (582)
2 - Neon Chaos - Antmeister (589), Barkeep49 (596)

[tanglewood]

Two other players also voted for No lynch on day one and then for Barkeep on day two: Telle and Antmeister. I'll dig up their reasoning in just a minute.

Telle voted no lynch on day one because she trusted Barkeep, despite pointing out it was odd for him to argue to not lynch based on his WW history. On day 2 she dropped in right near the deadline and offered no explaination for her vote for Barkeep.

Antmeister voted no lynch on day 1 essentially because he was afraid of lynching a good guy. On day 2 he "agreed with Lathum about Barkeep's aggresiveness".

Not sure what that tells us, but anyway...

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE NEON CHAOS

just wanted to see if there was support for a vote for him

[tanglewood]

Day three and there is still so little to go on. It's maddening.

[Barkeep49]

If we can't avoif another no lynch why are you voting for someone who currently has 1 vote? Even if the other two who have agreed to switch do so it still only ties it up at 4 each with Alan and Render with 3. Some way of guarenteeing a lynch.
No lynch is guarneteed. But I should be around at lynch time, as will others. I think an hour and a half out it's fine to tie up the vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

ah. Well in that case BK...i have less sympathy for his play this game. Although if it did start early and put him in a bad position that's unfortunate...but he's at least been around enough that he could have told us that.

[KWhit]

4 - Alan T - Gonzo (474), Neon_Chaos (512), RendeR (540), Cartman (554)
3 - Neon Chaos - Antmeister (589), Barkeep49 (596), DaddyTorgo (604)

2 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574), KWhit (585)
2 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557)
2 - Tanglewood - path12 (578), JHandley (582)

[Gonzo]

Telle voted no lynch on day one because she trusted Barkeep, despite pointing out it was odd for him to argue to not lynch based on his WW history. On day 2 she dropped in right near the deadline and offered no explaination for her vote for Barkeep.

Antmeister voted no lynch on day 1 essentially because he was afraid of lynching a good guy. On day 2 he "agreed with Lathum about Barkeep's aggresiveness".

Not sure what that tells us, but anyway...

I'm pretty convinced that Barkeep's no wolf. Look who voted for him and you'll agree.

[KWhit]

It's still early enough for me to tie it up with this:

UNVOTE RENDER
VOTE NEON CHAOS

Obviously, we need to not have a tie tonight, but I think NC is a better lynch tonight than AlanT.

[path12]

Damnit, this is too close. We do not need a close vote that can be tied up at the end.

UNVOTE TANGLEWOOD
VOTE ALAN T

I feel there is a better chance Tangle is bad than Alan, but we need a lynch and I'd rather go this way than Neon.

[Alan T]

I'll likely vote to save myself. So if anyone else votes for me tonight, you'll be causing a tie. Just a warning :)

[path12]

It's still early enough for me to tie it up with this:

UNVOTE RENDER
VOTE NEON CHAOS

Obviously, we need to not have a tie tonight, but I think NC is a better lynch tonight than AlanT.

Why is Neon better? Because he hasn't been around like he already stated he wouldn't be on the weekend? As opposed to Alan who had the strange PM night 1 and the funky vote yesterday? Nope, I don't buy that. Like I said, I'd rather go Tangle (or Render) but Alan seems more likely than Neon IMO.

[KWhit]

5 - Alan T - Gonzo (474), Neon_Chaos (512), RendeR (540), Cartman (554), Path12 (611)
4 - Neon Chaos - Antmeister (589), Barkeep49 (596), DaddyTorgo (604), KWhit (610)
2 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557)
1 - Tanglewood - JHandley (582)
1 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574)

[Alan T]

And Path puts us into a position to be tied.... Path, I would ask you consider voting for Neon if you feel very strongly that you don't want a tie. As I can tie it back up, whereas Neon has his vote on me as well.

If you are voting for the sake of not having a tie that is.

[DaddyTorgo]

alan

how do you feel about the case against neon?

[Barkeep49]

ah. Well in that case BK...i have less sympathy for his play this game. Although if it did start early and put him in a bad position that's unfortunate...but he's at least been around enough that he could have told us that.
He did tell us that, today. Late, but he did mention it.

So I see two of our non-voters, Gonzo and tangle, in the thread now. Hopefully they'll cast a vote.

[Alan T]

alan

how do you feel about the case against neon?

I voted for Neon last night, and my point still remains that I would rather have an active villager than one who hasn't been around if I had to choose between the two. I said earlier in the day that I felt Render or Tanglewood were better votes, but I'll vote Neon again tonight to save myself (or tie it up if Path keeps his vote there)

[Barkeep49]

Telle is also in the thread and she has a vote on neither of our two top vote getters. But again with an hour plus we need not panic about ties. In fact, I only grow concerned about them in the last 10 minutes.

[Alan T]

He did tell us that, today. Late, but he did mention it.

So I see two of our non-voters, Gonzo and tangle, in the thread now. Hopefully they'll cast a vote.

Gonzo voted for me earlier.
I'm hoping he or Path move their vote.

[Barkeep49]

I'm naming people specifically so if we do end up with a tie, we have an idea of who was around when.

[Barkeep49]

Gonzo voted for me earlier.
I'm hoping he or Path move their vote.
You're right. My bad, he's not one of the non-voters.

[Alan T]

I'm naming people specifically so if we do end up with a tie, we have an idea of who was around when.

Well I'm going to be pretty suspicious of the people who have been trumpeting around how horrible ending in a tie is, if they voted for me putting us into a position of a tie. (You have to assume I'll vote self preservation here, so a vote like Path's smells bad)

[KWhit]

Why is Neon better? Because he hasn't been around like he already stated he wouldn't be on the weekend? As opposed to Alan who had the strange PM night 1 and the funky vote yesterday? Nope, I don't buy that. Like I said, I'd rather go Tangle (or Render) but Alan seems more likely than Neon IMO.

I think Alan has brought too much heat on himself with the PM reveal and the weird votes to be a wolf, IMO. A wolf likely wouldn't be quite so controversial.

It's possible that he's making trying to hide in plain sight, but I don't buy it at this point in time.

[Gonzo]

He did tell us that, today. Late, but he did mention it.

So I see two of our non-voters, Gonzo and tangle, in the thread now. Hopefully they'll cast a vote.

I voted for Alan T just as the day began.

[path12]

And Path puts us into a position to be tied.... Path, I would ask you consider voting for Neon if you feel very strongly that you don't want a tie. As I can tie it back up, whereas Neon has his vote on me as well.

If you are voting for the sake of not having a tie that is.

Alan, if it came down to that at the end I would switch to ensure a lynch. I'd rather it be the two people I mentioned earlier. But absent that I just think you're a better candidate than Neon.

[Gonzo]

I think Alan has brought too much heat on himself with the PM reveal and the weird votes to be a wolf, IMO. A wolf likely wouldn't be quite so controversial.

It's possible that he's making trying to hide in plain sight, but I don't buy it at this point in time.

Yes, but you're assuming he knows he's a wolf. If the conversion isn't instant, and when he recieved the night PM he wasn't told he was a wolf, then revealing the PM would make perfect sense.

[path12]

I think Alan has brought too much heat on himself with the PM reveal and the weird votes to be a wolf, IMO. A wolf likely wouldn't be quite so controversial.

It's possible that he's making trying to hide in plain sight, but I don't buy it at this point in time.

Fine, but the only rationale for Neon is that he hasn't been available at a time that he has said he wouldn't be available. What kind of reason is that?

[Alan T]

Alan, if it came down to that at the end I would switch to ensure a lynch. I'd rather it be the two people I mentioned earlier. But absent that I just think you're a better candidate than Neon.


Fair enough, I'm just making it very clear in this thread in case it does end in a tie, that I'm not to blame for self preservation. And its your vote that did it :)

[KWhit]

Out for a bit. I'll try to be back by the deadline.

[Alan T]

Yes, but you're assuming he knows he's a wolf. If the conversion isn't instant, and when he recieved the night PM he wasn't told he was a wolf, then revealing the PM would make perfect sense.


I'll also note for the record that Gonzo completely ignored my challenge earlier on the whole bogus slow conversion thing. He didn't answer because he can't. I'm right about it and he has no good answer for it. :)

[tanglewood]

I'll likely vote to save myself. So if anyone else votes for me tonight, you'll be causing a tie. Just a warning :)

How would one more person voting for you cause a tie? You're leading the vote by one at the moment, you can't force a tie on your own.

[Alan T]

How would one more person voting for you cause a tie? You're leading the vote by one at the moment, you can't force a tie on your own.

I was commenting on it before Path voted for me. At the time it was tied up, and path untied it 5-4 and I still have a vote I can make to put it as 5-5.

[Alan T]

ie: yes, right now I can force a tie at 5-5, which is why Path stating we need a lynch then putting us into a position of a tie contradicts himself.

[tanglewood]

I would ideally like to vote for either DaddyTorgo of path12 tonight, but I can see that's unlikely to be of much use right now.

If it came down to Neon Chaos or Alan T, I will vote for Alan T, but neither of them are all that high up on my suspicion list.

[Gonzo]

I'll also note for the record that Gonzo completely ignored my challenge earlier on the whole bogus slow conversion thing. He didn't answer because he can't. I'm right about it and he has no good answer for it. :)

Bogus slow conversion thing? Explain.

[Alan T]

Telle, are you planning on moving your vote, or keeping it on Barkeep?

[tanglewood]

ie: yes, right now I can force a tie at 5-5, which is why Path stating we need a lynch then putting us into a position of a tie contradicts himself.

Well he can vote for who he thinks is most likely bad right now regardless. Voting is so fluid, especially as you get near the deadline that no one player can force a tie on their own.

[Alan T]

Bogus slow conversion thing? Explain.


I challenged you before to show me any examples of slow conversion in our WW games here that didn't have some kind of doctor role in the game, and in return I would show you a ll kinds of cases where A player had the ability to inhibit another person's actions for a night. In the end my list would be longer than yours (if you even had a list).

You never replied, I assume the silence because you have no reply.

[Gonzo]

I challenged you before to show me any examples of slow conversion in our WW games here that didn't have some kind of doctor role in the game, and in return I would show you a ll kinds of cases where A player had the ability to inhibit another person's actions for a night. In the end my list would be longer than yours (if you even had a list).

This is my first Werewolf game. I have no idea.

At any rate, a doctor role in all the game's I've seen it used means that the person who was saved from the wolves couldn't speak during the next day cycle.

[Alan T]

This is my first Werewolf game. I have no idea.

At any rate, a doctor role in all the game's I've seen it used means that the person who was saved from the wolves couldn't speak during the next day cycle.

The -only- game I have ever seen where there was a conversion that didn't happen instantly was the Spawn games, and in them the doctor could cure the person if they got to them in time. I still think this whole thing is a reach, and an attempt at people to try to focus the lynch on a villager instead of wolves now for 2 days.

[tanglewood]

I would ideally like to vote for either DaddyTorgo of path12 tonight, but I can see that's unlikely to be of much use right now.

If it came down to Neon Chaos or Alan T, I will vote for Alan T, but neither of them are all that high up on my suspicion list.

I will point out that I find path12 suspicious because:

1) He was the first player on Day 1 to vote for No Lynch, a policy which we can see now was clearly damaging to the village

2) On day two he voted for Render almost immediately after the night actions were announced because Render stated he received no pm, a tremendously flimsy reason, then didn't move it all day.

[Alan T]

Think about it as well, other than Neon who voted me out of spite for last night, Path is the only "veteran" who has their vote on me. Every other person hasn't played many games with me.

Ask yourself ... why does every single veteran think its a bad move to lynch me today?

[path12]

I would ideally like to vote for either DaddyTorgo of path12 tonight, but I can see that's unlikely to be of much use right now.

Is there a reason besides that I suspect you?

[tanglewood]

This is my first Werewolf game. I have no idea.

At any rate, a doctor role in all the game's I've seen it used means that the person who was saved from the wolves couldn't speak during the next day cycle.

It is not your first Werewolf game. You have played in several and GM'ed at least two on another message board.

[path12]

Oh, never mind, I see you answered above.

[Barkeep49]

I'm sure there's been at least one other delayed conversion game.

Also, I think it would make sense for our seer to scan Alan tonight. If he's bad he'll be bad by now. Otherwise he's good.

[Barkeep49]

It is not your first Werewolf game. You have played in several and GM'ed at least two on another message board.
Poor guy, busted by his own brother!

[Alan T]

I'm sure there's been at least one other delayed conversion game.

Also, I think it would make sense for our seer to scan Alan tonight. If he's bad he'll be bad by now. Otherwise he's good.


Doesn't look like I will get a chance to as people would rather vote for someone who might or might not have changed into a wolf, than someone who started as one.

[path12]

ie: yes, right now I can force a tie at 5-5, which is why Path stating we need a lynch then putting us into a position of a tie contradicts himself.

Just to make sure the record is straight while you keep trying to put heat on me -- if you look at the times, KWhit and I switched our votes at the same time. I'm still hoping one of the Neon or other voters decides to switch.

[tanglewood]

Think about it as well, other than Neon who voted me out of spite for last night, Path is the only "veteran" who has their vote on me. Every other person hasn't played many games with me.

Ask yourself ... why does every single veteran think its a bad move to lynch me today?

One thing I do dislike is when WW discussions on this board go into who are veterans and who are newbies. WW is a game where experience helps, just like any other game, but I don't think the divide is as great as it is sometimes made out to be, or at least implied to be. At the end of the day it is a reason and intuition game, which are innate human skills.

[path12]

Doesn't look like I will get a chance to as people would rather vote for someone who might or might not have changed into a wolf, than someone who started as one.

How do you know Neon started as one?

[Alan T]

One thing I do dislike is when WW discussions on this board go into who are veterans and who are newbies. WW is a game where experience helps, just like any other game, but I don't think the divide is as great as it is sometimes made out to be, or at least implied to be. At the end of the day it is a reason and intuition game, which are innate human skills.

If you re-read what I wrote, I clearly didn't say it had to do with game experience. It very much has to do with people being familiar with other people's playing style. If you have played 15-20 games with someone and they ALWAYS act a similar way, you learn a bit about them..

So I agree with your post, but in this case, people who have played a bunch of games with me know me better than people who haven't.

[Telle]

Telle, are you planning on moving your vote, or keeping it on Barkeep?

I'm planning on keeping it on Barkeep. I'll move it if I have to to avoid a tie though.

[Alan T]

How do you know Neon started as one?

I never said Neon started as one. However, most people's reason against me is that I may some day turn into a wolf. I just hope its before the end of this game, since I haven't yet!

[Gonzo]

The -only- game I have ever seen where there was a conversion that didn't happen instantly was the Spawn games, and in them the doctor could cure the person if they got to them in time.

I think it's a flimsy defense if you try and use past games with mechanics that have no bearing on this current one as proof that you're not a wolf. Sure, the slow-conversion thing might not have happened in previous games, but it's not wildly implausible. Makes more sense than a maksed doctor rescuing you from the wolves and then stealing away into the night, leaving no trace.

[Alan T]

Well, I really didn't want to reveal this as I feel its too early in the game. However with votes moving, I feel that it would be irresponsible of me to not reveal with enough time for people to get votes off of me. With Tanglewood stating he would vote for me, it looks likely that I am the marked person for tonight without this reveal.

I am Van Helsing. I get to protect someone every night. I am not going into any more detail about what I can and can't do as now obviously I have to play a game of chess with the wolves for the rest of the game.

Night 1: I tried to protect Chief Rum. I didn't get any information at all whatsoever as the rest of what happened is exactly as I said previously. I woke up remembering none of the previous evening. The reason I decided to reveal that part was my fear that if someone good did something to me, the lack of my mentioning it might be more suspicious than mentioning it. I honestly never considered any "slow conversion" Until Kwhit brought it up. The only thing that popped into my mind then and still I believe is true is either: A) Chief RUm did something or has some ability for me to not be able to protect him/guard him/watch him. B) Someone else used some form of inhibition on me.

Night 2: I won't say who I protected, but i will say what I saw. I don't want that person to come out and confirm things in any way at all. I saw PlayerX basically steal a handkerchief from Cartman (or maybe it was cartman's room. The PM wasn't very specific about it). PlayerX returned to their room and the light was on all night but no one ever came to visit them. My take on this is that PlayerX is the Good scientist, and I feel that due to this Cartman likely turned up as good (or at least not a wolf).

I've been trying to ride the fine line of not getting lynched for a while, but I in good conscience can not let myself be lynched for the sake of the village, so must reveal earlier than I wanted to. For a while today, I felt the momentum had turned and I could ride things out and not have to reveal. I no longer feel that way. There are 50 minutes left and plenty of you here. So there is plenty of time for you all to save me.

Do NOT vote for me.

[hoopsguy]

One thing I do dislike is when WW discussions on this board go into who are veterans and who are newbies. WW is a game where experience helps, just like any other game, but I don't think the divide is as great as it is sometimes made out to be, or at least implied to be. At the end of the day it is a reason and intuition game, which are innate human skills.

FWIW, I don't think that the conversation heads in this direction as often, or as forcefully, now as it has in the past.

Don't want to threadjack the game as deadline approaches, but didn't feel like starting a separate thread on this topic either.

[Alan T]

I think it's a flimsy defense if you try and use past games with mechanics that have no bearing on this current one as proof that you're not a wolf. Sure, the slow-conversion thing might not have happened in previous games, but it's not wildly implausible. Makes more sense than a maksed doctor rescuing you from the wolves and then stealing away into the night, leaving no trace.

You are the one that is using past game mechanics against me. I'm flat out saying I don't believe there is a slow conversion in this game. Don't turn this around on me at all. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

son of a bitch

that reveal is going to hurt us!

[Alan T]

FWIW, I don't think that the conversation heads in this direction as often, or as forcefully, now as it has in the past.

Don't want to threadjack the game as deadline approaches, but didn't feel like starting a separate thread on this topic either.

I agree that it doesn't either. I think Tanglewood just completely missed my point all together, and I would be happy to talk about this after the game more if he wants to.

But playing 20 games with someone means you are more familiar with their play style. I never even inferred playing ability or WW experience in my post. I simply said the only people other than Path who were voting for me hadn't played many games with me and wern't familiar with me.

[Alan T]

son of a bitch

that reveal is going to hurt us!

Don't blame me. Blame Path and Tanglewood.

[Gonzo]

It is not your first Werewolf game. You have played in several and GM'ed at least two on another message board.

Three. :cool:

But I was saying it was my first werewolf game in the context of games at FOFC.

[DaddyTorgo]

son of a bitch!

well, let's summarize what we learned:

alan=good
cr= ?
playerx=good scientist
cartman=good

[path12]

Night 1: I tried to protect Chief Rum. I didn't get any information at all whatsoever as the rest of what happened is exactly as I said previously. I woke up remembering none of the previous evening. The reason I decided to reveal that part was my fear that if someone good did something to me, the lack of my mentioning it might be more suspicious than mentioning it. I honestly never considered any "slow conversion" Until Kwhit brought it up. The only thing that popped into my mind then and still I believe is true is either: A) Chief RUm did something or has some ability for me to not be able to protect him/guard him/watch him. B) Someone else used some form of inhibition on me.

Doesn't that make you suspicious of Chief then? If not, why?

UNVOTE ALAN T

[DaddyTorgo]

oh i'm not blaming you alan. It's just unfortunate

[Alan T]

son of a bitch!

well, let's summarize what we learned:

alan=good
cr= ?
playerx=good scientist
cartman=good

For the record, I don't know that playerx is the good scientist, but what I witnessed was in line with what I would expect of someone taking an item from someone else to "examine" DNA.

[Alan T]

For the record, I don't know that playerx is the good scientist, but what I witnessed was in line with what I would expect of someone taking an item from someone else to "examine" DNA.

Also I don't know anything about Cartman myself, but I am just going off of playerX's interaction today.

[cartman]

Well, that is definitely a bunch of news to digest and consider.

[Alan T]

Doesn't that make you suspicious of Chief then? If not, why?

UNVOTE ALAN T

I still don't know if it was him that caused it or someone else.

[DaddyTorgo]

right. That was the one thing that we're not "sure" of on that list. I should have said "presumed good scientist"

[tanglewood]

Well, I really didn't want to reveal this as I feel its too early in the game. However with votes moving, I feel that it would be irresponsible of me to not reveal with enough time for people to get votes off of me. With Tanglewood stating he would vote for me, it looks likely that I am the marked person for tonight without this reveal.

I am Van Helsing. I get to protect someone every night. I am not going into any more detail about what I can and can't do as now obviously I have to play a game of chess with the wolves for the rest of the game.

Night 1: I tried to protect Chief Rum. I didn't get any information at all whatsoever as the rest of what happened is exactly as I said previously. I woke up remembering none of the previous evening. The reason I decided to reveal that part was my fear that if someone good did something to me, the lack of my mentioning it might be more suspicious than mentioning it. I honestly never considered any "slow conversion" Until Kwhit brought it up. The only thing that popped into my mind then and still I believe is true is either: A) Chief RUm did something or has some ability for me to not be able to protect him/guard him/watch him. B) Someone else used some form of inhibition on me.

Night 2: I won't say who I protected, but i will say what I saw. I don't want that person to come out and confirm things in any way at all. I saw PlayerX basically steal a handkerchief from Cartman (or maybe it was cartman's room. The PM wasn't very specific about it). PlayerX returned to their room and the light was on all night but no one ever came to visit them. My take on this is that PlayerX is the Good scientist, and I feel that due to this Cartman likely turned up as good (or at least not a wolf).

I've been trying to ride the fine line of not getting lynched for a while, but I in good conscience can not let myself be lynched for the sake of the village, so must reveal earlier than I wanted to. For a while today, I felt the momentum had turned and I could ride things out and not have to reveal. I no longer feel that way. There are 50 minutes left and plenty of you here. So there is plenty of time for you all to save me.

Do NOT vote for me.

This is certainly plausible. I will wait for a bit before deciding what to do. Hopefully Cartman turns up and/or another Van Helsing will reveal before the deadline.

[Alan T]

This is certainly plausible. I will wait for a bit before deciding what to do. Hopefully Cartman turns up and/or another Van Helsing will reveal before the deadline.

Vote Tanglewood

[DaddyTorgo]

dammit dammit dammit

[DaddyTorgo]

putting this all together: tangle is not player x I would assume.

So we have

alan=van helsing
cartman=strongly presumed good
player x=presumed good scientist
tangle=not player x
daddytorgo=villager

[tanglewood]

The reason I decided to reveal that part was my fear that if someone good did something to me, the lack of my mentioning it might be more suspicious than mentioning it.

This I considered as a possibility but ruled it out because I didn't think it would have been the correct play in this situation. If I had recieved a night PM I would not mention it under any circumstances unless I felt it was necessary. I guess that's just a play style difference.

[LoneStarGirl]

Once again, if you people honestly think as a wolf, I would set myself up to try to be scanned and on the line in the first 2 days, you are absolutely out of your mind.

If I was a wolf, I wouldn't have revealed my night 1 PM.
If I was a wolf, I wouldn't have brought that much heat onto myself.
If I was a wolf, I definitly wouldn't be putting myself on the lynch line because of trying to vote for my gut or trying to manipulate the vote at the end of deadline.

I hate to say it, but a smart wolf writes off his own if they come up for a day 2 lynch. There is no way a wolf would go down with the ship to save his own that early in the game.

Today's arguements against me are even more rediculous than yesterday's were so far. The only one that makes any sense to me right now is Jhandley, who wanted to play a wait and see game, and well all I can tell you is if someone scanned me last night, I would have turned up human. I am human right now, and as far as I can tell, I will continue to be human.

I have to admit after reading this vote I really want to believe Alant. why would he have revealed his day one Pm... that makes no sense. He should have known that would get a lot of heat on him. I really do not believe that he is a wolf right now.

[tanglewood]

Vote Tanglewood

Hey, it would be much better for the village if someone else turns up and claims to be Van Helsing. :)

I already said your story is plausable. Unless Cartman contradicts you, which it doesn't look like he will, or another player comes out and contradicts you I won't vote for you tonight.

[cartman]

UNVOTE ALAN T

[LoneStarGirl]

At this point, I'm still inclined to go after Barkeep before Alan.

VOTE BARKEEP49

At this point, I am too.... but I still have a lot of reading to do before I vote

[cartman]

VOTE BARKEEP49

[path12]

daddytorgo=villager

Now how do we know that? ;)

[Alan T]

Hey, it would be much better for the village if someone else turns up and claims to be Van Helsing. :)

I already said your story is plausable. Unless Cartman contradicts you, which it doesn't look like he will, or another player comes out and contradicts you I won't vote for you tonight.

A little late now that your plan to vote for me forced me to reveal.

[cartman]

I don't see anything missing, so it is possible that either Alan made it up, or it was replaced before I noticed it missing.

[tanglewood]

I agree that it doesn't either. I think Tanglewood just completely missed my point all together, and I would be happy to talk about this after the game more if he wants to.

But playing 20 games with someone means you are more familiar with their play style. I never even inferred playing ability or WW experience in my post. I simply said the only people other than Path who were voting for me hadn't played many games with me and wern't familiar with me.

Yeah, I just was speed reading and missed that you were referring to familiarity with yourself rather than the game. No big deal.

[Gonzo]

Well, I really didn't want to reveal this as I feel its too early in the game. However with votes moving, I feel that it would be irresponsible of me to not reveal with enough time for people to get votes off of me. With Tanglewood stating he would vote for me, it looks likely that I am the marked person for tonight without this reveal.

I am Van Helsing. I get to protect someone every night. I am not going into any more detail about what I can and can't do as now obviously I have to play a game of chess with the wolves for the rest of the game.

Night 1: I tried to protect Chief Rum. I didn't get any information at all whatsoever as the rest of what happened is exactly as I said previously. I woke up remembering none of the previous evening. The reason I decided to reveal that part was my fear that if someone good did something to me, the lack of my mentioning it might be more suspicious than mentioning it. I honestly never considered any "slow conversion" Until Kwhit brought it up. The only thing that popped into my mind then and still I believe is true is either: A) Chief RUm did something or has some ability for me to not be able to protect him/guard him/watch him. B) Someone else used some form of inhibition on me.

Night 2: I won't say who I protected, but i will say what I saw. I don't want that person to come out and confirm things in any way at all. I saw PlayerX basically steal a handkerchief from Cartman (or maybe it was cartman's room. The PM wasn't very specific about it). PlayerX returned to their room and the light was on all night but no one ever came to visit them. My take on this is that PlayerX is the Good scientist, and I feel that due to this Cartman likely turned up as good (or at least not a wolf).

I've been trying to ride the fine line of not getting lynched for a while, but I in good conscience can not let myself be lynched for the sake of the village, so must reveal earlier than I wanted to. For a while today, I felt the momentum had turned and I could ride things out and not have to reveal. I no longer feel that way. There are 50 minutes left and plenty of you here. So there is plenty of time for you all to save me.

Do NOT vote for me.

I'm calling BS. Smells funny.

[path12]

VOTE TANGLEWOOD

Back to my first choice.

[LoneStarGirl]

Not really a topic for this thread, but on a related note, I would love to hear how hard/easy it is being a wolf when in the same game as a villager Significant other. I'm not sure if any of our couples have had that happen or not, but I would wonder how you would get away with the communications with other wolves without being noticed in RL.

I did that with Goldeneagle in the Superheros game. When I died because of Blade killing me I was so pissed it was so hard for me not to talk to GE about it.

[path12]

I have to admit after reading this vote I really want to believe Alant. why would he have revealed his day one Pm... that makes no sense. He should have known that would get a lot of heat on him. I really do not believe that he is a wolf right now.

I love when people post while catching up.

[tanglewood]

A little late now that your plan to vote for me forced me to reveal.

It wasn;t a plan to vote for you. I already stated I would rather vote for either path12 or DaddyTorgo, but if forced to choose between you and Neon Chaos, I woudl vote for you.

[Alan T]

It wasn;t a plan to vote for you. I already stated I would rather vote for either path12 or DaddyTorgo, but if forced to choose between you and Neon Chaos, I woudl vote for you.


ie: you were going to vote for me since neither of them had votes.

[path12]

I'm calling BS. Smells funny.

In the absence of a counter are you going to chance it?

[Barkeep49]

At this point, I am too.... but I still have a lot of reading to do before I vote
So funny in light of recent events.

So Alan: Did you, or did you not, receive the PM you claimed?

Also, I don't blame you for your reveal, but do think you'd have been spared.

[DaddyTorgo]

strong statement gonzo. Do you have a reason for it? not asking for a reveal or anythingg, but at least let us know if it's "gut" or "due to evidence"

[Alan T]

So funny in light of recent events.

So Alan: Did you, or did you not, receive the PM you claimed?

Also, I don't blame you for your reveal, but do think you'd have been spared.

Since I can quote PMs in this game:

Chief Rum behaves perfectly ordinary during the day. Your attempts to follow him at night, though, fail when you black out shortly after dinner. You awake in your bed in the morning, with no memory of what happened.

As for being spare.. its funny I'm talking to someone else not in this game on IM about that. The way I figured, I had votes from 5 people, Tanglewood would be #6. Neon wouldn't move, Path and Gonzo were both being stuck in a rutt, and Cartman and Antmeister I didn't see around. Telle said she wasn't going to vote, and I didn't have much more lifeline. I would have preferred having to not have revealed.. but c'est la vie

[Alan T]

strong statement gonzo. Do you have a reason for it? not asking for a reveal or anythingg, but at least let us know if it's "gut" or "due to evidence"

Gonzo and his brother have been on my case for a while. Not sure whats up with either of them. For now I'm letting it slide, but we'll see.

[DaddyTorgo]

so almost like...somebody slipped something into your drink...or else that's a mechanism of "CR is a wolf and that's cronin's way of saying you can't follow a wolf" or something...

[path12]

The Chief Rum thing really makes me curious.

[Barkeep49]

Hmm. Someone more familiar with the movie: Doesn't Van Helsing get converted at one point and end up getting killed when he is in Wolf form fighting Dracula?

[Gonzo]

strong statement gonzo. Do you have a reason for it? not asking for a reveal or anythingg, but at least let us know if it's "gut" or "due to evidence"

Gut. He's given us no evidence save the "mysterious player X" jive.

[LoneStarGirl]

Well from the last few games, I've gotten the impression that everyone feels that way about me too. :(

Alant, we love to hate you ;)

You are just a good werewolf player...dont take it to heart

[path12]

so almost like...somebody slipped something into your drink...or else that's a mechanism of "CR is a wolf and that's cronin's way of saying you can't follow a wolf" or something...

It was night 1 though, nobody knew who he was so why would they poison his drink even if someone had that ability?

[Alan T]

so almost like...somebody slipped something into your drink...or else that's a mechanism of "CR is a wolf and that's cronin's way of saying you can't follow a wolf" or something...

Oh since I can quote PMs, I can give you this too:

You are Van Helsing. Each day, you may pick one player to "shadow." If the player is attacked by wolves, you will chase the wolves off. If the player is a wolf, there is a possibility you will discover his identity.

Please note there is a second paragraph to this that I refuse to share, as it goes into some of the mechanics of my role, and that doesn't need to get out right now.

But what happened with Chief rum doesn't mesh with what i feel would happen if he was a wolf per my PM. I still think it was some third party.

[Neon_Chaos]

Well, I really didn't want to reveal this as I feel its too early in the game. However with votes moving, I feel that it would be irresponsible of me to not reveal with enough time for people to get votes off of me. With Tanglewood stating he would vote for me, it looks likely that I am the marked person for tonight without this reveal.

I am Van Helsing. I get to protect someone every night. I am not going into any more detail about what I can and can't do as now obviously I have to play a game of chess with the wolves for the rest of the game.

Night 1: I tried to protect Chief Rum. I didn't get any information at all whatsoever as the rest of what happened is exactly as I said previously. I woke up remembering none of the previous evening. The reason I decided to reveal that part was my fear that if someone good did something to me, the lack of my mentioning it might be more suspicious than mentioning it. I honestly never considered any "slow conversion" Until Kwhit brought it up. The only thing that popped into my mind then and still I believe is true is either: A) Chief RUm did something or has some ability for me to not be able to protect him/guard him/watch him. B) Someone else used some form of inhibition on me.

Night 2: I won't say who I protected, but i will say what I saw. I don't want that person to come out and confirm things in any way at all. I saw PlayerX basically steal a handkerchief from Cartman (or maybe it was cartman's room. The PM wasn't very specific about it). PlayerX returned to their room and the light was on all night but no one ever came to visit them. My take on this is that PlayerX is the Good scientist, and I feel that due to this Cartman likely turned up as good (or at least not a wolf).

I've been trying to ride the fine line of not getting lynched for a while, but I in good conscience can not let myself be lynched for the sake of the village, so must reveal earlier than I wanted to. For a while today, I felt the momentum had turned and I could ride things out and not have to reveal. I no longer feel that way. There are 50 minutes left and plenty of you here. So there is plenty of time for you all to save me.

Do NOT vote for me.

Oh great. This is going to bite me in the ass.

UNVOTE ALAN T

VOTE RENDER

[LoneStarGirl]

I HUMBLY SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE DON'T WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE TO VOTE UNLESS YOU'RE A WOLF. IT'S JUST TOO RISKY WITH THE VOTE SO CLOSE AND WE NEED A LYNCH TONIGHT!

I just read this, and I will probably be voting within the next 15 minutes, but its because I got in at 8 today from umpiring... I haven't even taken a shower or eaten dinner yet, I jumped on the computer first.

[st.cronin]

4 - Neon_Chaos - Antmeister (589), Barkeep49 (596), DaddyTorgo (604), KWhit (610)
3 - Alan T - Gonzo (474), Neon_Chaos (512), RendeR (540)
3 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557), cartman (681)
2 - tanglewood - Alan T (673), path12 (687)
1 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574)

This is what I currently have - have I missed anything?

[RendeR]

UNVOTE ALAN T

I will filet you from sinus to anus if you are making a wolfly play here.....

[path12]

I don't know. "There is a possibility you will discover his identity" sounds kind of like what happened to you.

Someone needs to scan Chief.

[Alan T]

Someone correct me if Im wrong, I have this for the current vote count:

2 - Alan T - Gonzo (474), RendeR (540)
4 - Neon_Chaos - Antmeister (589), Barkeep (596), DaddyTorgo (604), kwhit (610)
2 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574), Neon_Chaos (704)
3 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557), Cartman (681)
3 - Tanglewood - Jhandley (582), Alan (673), path (687)

[tanglewood]

So funny in light of recent events.

So Alan: Did you, or did you not, receive the PM you claimed?

Also, I don't blame you for your reveal, but do think you'd have been spared.

If someone voted to tie it with NC I would have voted for Alan, so unless another candidate was brought up to vote then likely he was going down unless he revealed. Which means that the situation is regrettably grim, but better than the alternative.

Alan, can you protect yourself?

[LoneStarGirl]

The way I currently see it is that Neon Chaos was possibly a wolf and there was a last minute barrage to turn the vote elsewhere. I am glad that AlanT illustrated all the votes that came within that short window of time, because I am becoming really suspicious.

Vote Neon Chaos.

Damn it, he has to at least be a mad scientist.

I REALLY dont like this vote. It is a vote for somebody who isn't even in the mix... and it seems the bandwagon for Neon disbanded last night. This vote just doesn't seem right to me at all.

[RendeR]

Oh great. This is going to bite me in the ass.

UNVOTE ALAN T

VOTE RENDER


It certainly may, if it gets close to a lynch of me I'll toss you on the pyre myself.

[Neon_Chaos]

UNVOTE RENDER

VOTE TANGLEWOOD

[Alan T]

If someone voted to tie it with NC I would have voted for Alan, so unless another candidate was brought up to vote then likely he was going down unless he revealed. Which means that the situation is regrettably grim, but better than the alternative.

Alan, can you protect yourself?

What a rediculous question to ask. Would you like me to tell you where I will be and when so you can completely avoid me tonight?

[path12]

Cronin, you've got 15 people in thread on a Sunday evening. Nicely done. I think it's the 24 hour mechanic.

[LoneStarGirl]

I'm pretty convinced that Barkeep's no wolf. Look who voted for him and you'll agree.

At this time all I see who voted for him are Dodgerchick and Telle.

Do you have something against women? :D

[DaddyTorgo]

If someone voted to tie it with NC I would have voted for Alan, so unless another candidate was brought up to vote then likely he was going down unless he revealed. Which means that the situation is regrettably grim, but better than the alternative.

Alan, can you protect yourself?

alan stated he wouldn't reveal the mechanics of his role, as it's his only hope of staying alive. Only a wolf would ask a question like that!

[Neon_Chaos]

Well, I just saw the vote-count. I forgot that everyone jumped off your ship. Doh.

[DaddyTorgo]

UNVOTE NEON CHAOS

VOTE TANGLEWOOD

[Neon_Chaos]

I'll let AlanT live for one more night if it means letting the Van Helsing character live. So I guess my ass is on the line now, isn't it?

[Neon_Chaos]

You better be Van Helsing ALANT.

:(

[LoneStarGirl]

Well, I really didn't want to reveal this as I feel its too early in the game. However with votes moving, I feel that it would be irresponsible of me to not reveal with enough time for people to get votes off of me. With Tanglewood stating he would vote for me, it looks likely that I am the marked person for tonight without this reveal.

I am Van Helsing. I get to protect someone every night. I am not going into any more detail about what I can and can't do as now obviously I have to play a game of chess with the wolves for the rest of the game.

Night 1: I tried to protect Chief Rum. I didn't get any information at all whatsoever as the rest of what happened is exactly as I said previously. I woke up remembering none of the previous evening. The reason I decided to reveal that part was my fear that if someone good did something to me, the lack of my mentioning it might be more suspicious than mentioning it. I honestly never considered any "slow conversion" Until Kwhit brought it up. The only thing that popped into my mind then and still I believe is true is either: A) Chief RUm did something or has some ability for me to not be able to protect him/guard him/watch him. B) Someone else used some form of inhibition on me.

Night 2: I won't say who I protected, but i will say what I saw. I don't want that person to come out and confirm things in any way at all. I saw PlayerX basically steal a handkerchief from Cartman (or maybe it was cartman's room. The PM wasn't very specific about it). PlayerX returned to their room and the light was on all night but no one ever came to visit them. My take on this is that PlayerX is the Good scientist, and I feel that due to this Cartman likely turned up as good (or at least not a wolf).

I've been trying to ride the fine line of not getting lynched for a while, but I in good conscience can not let myself be lynched for the sake of the village, so must reveal earlier than I wanted to. For a while today, I felt the momentum had turned and I could ride things out and not have to reveal. I no longer feel that way. There are 50 minutes left and plenty of you here. So there is plenty of time for you all to save me.

Do NOT vote for me.

WOW WOW WOW.... I hate seeing this so early in the game.

[DaddyTorgo]

actually Neon...it's swung dramatically towards tangle at this point

[tanglewood]

What a rediculous question to ask. Would you like me to tell you where I will be and when so you can completely avoid me tonight?

I didn't say will you protect yourslef, only can you protect yourself. You respond saying, "Yes I can" and then the wolves have to think.

Well if I go down tonight it will bring an end seeimingly the most inept performance of my WW career to date, so at least that's a positive.

[path12]

actually Neon...it's swung dramatically towards tangle at this point

Just a one vote difference right now, isn't it? And I don't think Tangle's voted?

[KWhit]

I think we should spare AlanT tonight. If he's a wolf, he'll be left alive tomorrow. If he's truly Van Helsing, I'm sure the wolves will go after him tonight.

Now, that theory may not hold if there's a secret bodyguard role out there that could protect him, but I think we have to give Alan the benefit of the doubt tonight.

[RendeR]

I'm seriously torn....I have two poeple in mind to vote for now. I'm giving Alan a pass for the reveal but so help me he better BE Van Helsing......

Anyone got an updated vote count? (ANyone quick enough to keep up with our obnoxious vote jumping?)

[Barkeep49]

I would love to make a shift to CR. To me the black-out is entirely consistent with the idea that Van Helsing MAY discover that person he is following is a wolf. I'll suggest CR is a wolf, Alan failed his dice check and thus blacked out rather than making the mutual discovery. So, with 20 minutes to go, I'll try and get us started down that path, though my head remains on the block.

UNVOTE NEON
VOTE CHIEF RUM

[Schmidty]

I've been busy all day, and haven't had a chance to read this thread at all. I'm not going to have time to catch up on the whole thing before the vote, so I'm just going to have to do a quick skim and vote.

[path12]

Well if I go down tonight it will bring an end seeimingly the most inept performance of my WW career to date, so at least that's a positive.

If it helps, I feel the same way most games. ;)

[Barkeep49]

Tangle is the leader, I believe, with 5 at the moment.

[LoneStarGirl]

Vote Tanglewood

This one seems kind of obvious now. I hate that Alant revealed himself this early. And Alant, I wish you would have remembered I was voting tonight and I was not going to vote for you...

[LoneStarGirl]

I would love a post count

[JHandley]

I'm not at home. Speed reading to catch up, can someone give me an updated vote count?

[path12]

I would love to make a shift to CR. To me the black-out is entirely consistent with the idea that Van Helsing MAY discover that person he is following is a wolf. I'll suggest CR is a wolf, Alan failed his dice check and thus blacked out rather than making the mutual discovery. So, with 20 minutes to go, I'll try and get us started down that path, though my head remains on the block.

UNVOTE NEON
VOTE CHIEF RUM

I'm willing to go there if anyone else is. Keeping my vote where it is for now though until we get a sense of that.

[Alan T]

I think we should spare AlanT tonight. If he's a wolf, he'll be left alive tomorrow. If he's truly Van Helsing, I'm sure the wolves will go after him tonight.

Now, that theory may not hold if there's a secret bodyguard role out there that could protect him, but I think we have to give Alan the benefit of the doubt tonight.

Well.. I am the bodyguard role... :eek:

[KWhit]

Well.. I am the bodyguard role... :eek:

Yeah, I know. I meant that if there is another secret role that could help you tonight.

[Gonzo]

Why are we voting for Tanglewood? Genuine question.

[LoneStarGirl]

Cronin! Where is my vote count?

[KWhit]

Vote count?

[Alan T]

Vote Tanglewood

This one seems kind of obvious now. I hate that Alant revealed himself this early. And Alant, I wish you would have remembered I was voting tonight and I was not going to vote for you...

if everyone did as they said they would, your vote would have tied it up if thats the case. Not really something i could or wanted to count on :)

[KWhit]

This has the feel of another clusterfuck tie in the making with all the wild vote switches.

[path12]

Why are we voting for Tanglewood? Genuine question.

Funky vote end of yesterday, some questionable posts.

That is the condensed version.

[Barkeep49]

Why are we voting for Tanglewood? Genuine question.
Because he voted, at the last moment and with basically no explanation, for alan yesterday when we had a tie vote.

[Alan T]

I have this:

1 - Alan T - Gonzo (474)
2 - Neon_Chaos - Antmeister (589), kwhit (610)
1 - RendeR - Chief Rum (574)
3 - Barkeep49 - Dodgerchick (531), Telle (557), Cartman (681)
6 - Tanglewood - Jhandley (582), Alan (673), path (687), Neon_Chaos (713), daddytorgo (719), Lonestargirl (732)
1 - Chief Rum - Barkeep (728)

[Schmidty]

Can anyone give me a quick reason for all of the late votes on tanglewood? I need to vote soon, but I don't want to just pick someone at random, since I haven't been here at all today.

[Gonzo]

Funky vote end of yesterday, some questionable posts.

That is the condensed version.

Can't argue with that.

[Barkeep49]

Can we PLEASE get a vote count KWhit/Alan? There doesn't seem to be much momentum for my CR theory, which I really like at this point. I will point out that Alan's expanded PM does not preclude the conversion, but I consider that less likely at this moment all things considered.

[tanglewood]

I would be more than willing to switch to Chief if it would save me.

I will however not move to save myself if it would cause a tie. The village needs a lynch, any lynch, and I want the people who vote for me to be looked at. So if comes down to a close one I won't save my bacon.

[LoneStarGirl]

If Gonzo doesn't take his vote off Alant in about 15 minutes he is going to be my target tomorrow.