A big HOOH-AH!!!! to a fellow brother!!!

[JeffNights]

hxxp://www.break.com/index/veteran-cuts-down-mexican-flag.html

[Karlifornia]

That's how we elicit change! By making sure our flags are on top!

Someone get on the phone to Washington. Iraqi insurgents, prepare to go down. The way to establish control of a country is through flag positioning. The higher the better! As long as our flag flies above all other flags, we will forever be headed towards the light!

That's a pretty sweet law, though....right up there with not being allowed to pump your own gas in Oregon.

[sabotai]

That's a pretty sweet law, though....right up there with not being allowed to pump your own gas in Oregon.

This is what happens when you pump your own gas...

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VVG1nBrGtR4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VVG1nBrGtR4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[M GO BLUE!!!]

This is what happens when you pump your own gas...



Living in NJ, don't you hate leaving the state and realizing you need gas and will have to pump it yourself?

[sabotai]

Living in NJ, don't you hate leaving the state and realizing you need gas and will have to pump it yourself?

No. I don't leave the state. ;)

[JeffNights]

That's how we elicit change! By making sure our flags are on top!

Someone get on the phone to Washington. Iraqi insurgents, prepare to go down. The way to establish control of a country is through flag positioning. The higher the better! As long as our flag flies above all other flags, we will forever be headed towards the light!

That's a pretty sweet law, though....right up there with not being allowed to pump your own gas in Oregon.


Its a Federal Law, not a state, and I dont expect everybody to get the point, or agree.

[RedKingGold]

Its a Federal Law, not a state, and I dont expect everybody to get the point, or agree.

Not exactly a federal law. Statute, yes, but carries no punitive measure (or else would violate that pesky 1st Amendment).

Also, the store owner would probably have better legal standing than the flag-ripper for destruction of private property and conversion.

[Passacaglia]

God Bless America!

[CU Tiger]

Living in NJ, don't you hate leaving the state and realizing you need gas and will have to pump it yourself?

I moved to Nj lasted 12 weeks and moved back south.
I was amazed at the inability to pump ones own gas and was actually confronted the first time I pulled up and tried.

One night had a nice conversation with NJ highway patrol at a restaurant, as he engaged me as I pulled up to question the out of state tags and illegal height vehicle (think big redneck mud truck, only new) and during our conversatioon I inquired about the gas pumping.

Turns out that the state of NJ has determined the inhalation of gas fumes to be a carcinogen and dont wish to subject their citizens to the evils of cancer. Which is nice and all, except what about the 16 year old hs students who breathe it 8 hours/day?

Wouldnt eveeryon be safer with the 2x/week 2 minutes than absolutely piling on these kids....

[CraigSca]

Maybe it's me, but rarely do I see kids pumping gas in NJ - it's always a bunch of older guys sitting around.

[lordscarlet]

Not exactly a federal law. Statute, yes, but carries no punitive measure (or else would violate that pesky 1st Amendment).

Also, the store owner would probably have better legal standing than the flag-ripper for destruction of private property and conversion.

..except Texas.

I moved to Nj lasted 12 weeks and moved back south.
I was amazed at the inability to pump ones own gas and was actually confronted the first time I pulled up and tried.

One night had a nice conversation with NJ highway patrol at a restaurant, as he engaged me as I pulled up to question the out of state tags and illegal height vehicle (think big redneck mud truck, only new) and during our conversatioon I inquired about the gas pumping.

Turns out that the state of NJ has determined the inhalation of gas fumes to be a carcinogen and dont wish to subject their citizens to the evils of cancer. Which is nice and all, except what about the 16 year old hs students who breathe it 8 hours/day?

Wouldnt eveeryon be safer with the 2x/week 2 minutes than absolutely piling on these kids....

I've always heard that it comes down to a Union thing (they don't want the people pumping gas to lose their jobs).

[JPhillips]

What's Spanish for douchebag?

[Hammer755]

What's Spanish for douchebag?

I think it's pronounced carlosmencia.

[Toddzilla]

after watching that clip (of the gas guy, not the nutcase cutting down the flag) if there ever was a better use for the word pwned, I haven't seen it.

[Izulde]

The comments section is simultaneously hilarious and depressing.

[MikeVic]

Wait, you can't pump your own gas in the U.S.? Huh? I pumped my own in Minneapolis, Fargo, and Grand Forks.

[Passacaglia]

Wait, you can't pump your own gas in the U.S.? Huh? I pumped my own in Minneapolis, Fargo, and Grand Forks.

It's only a few states that don't allow you to pump your own.

[sabotai]

Turns out that the state of NJ has determined the inhalation of gas fumes to be a carcinogen and dont wish to subject their citizens to the evils of cancer. Which is nice and all, except what about the 16 year old hs students who breathe it 8 hours/day?

Wouldnt eveeryon be safer with the 2x/week 2 minutes than absolutely piling on these kids....

That's not why it's a law, or at least not the reasoning I've read about. It wasn't all that long ago that many states had laws that said a person could not pump their own gas. These laws came about back when pumping gas was far less safe and they wanted trained people to operate the pumps. It was during the 70s, I think, that most states took the laws off the books after pumping gas was safer.

Every few years, the idea to change the law gets floated around. The main reason is the state budget in NJ is too high, and they want to raise the gas tax to increase revenue. So the state would like to change the law so that people can pump their own gas (which would make gas 10 cents cheaper in NJ - we already sport some of the cheapest gas in the nation) so that they can just raise the tax on gas (there goes that 10 cents per gallon and probably more).

And as said, one of the reasons it fails is because they estimate about 70,000 people would lose their job. Also, no one wants to pump their own gas in NJ.

[rkmsuf]

Wait, you can't pump your own gas in the U.S.? Huh? I pumped my own in Minneapolis, Fargo, and Grand Forks.

pump this

[MikeVic]

pump this

With pleasure! :cool:

[JeeberD]

It's only a few states that don't allow you to pump your own.

Oregon and New Jersey, to be precise...

[Greyroofoo]

Seriously, if you're gonna live in America, you should not be putting the Mexican flag on top.

[heybrad]

Does it explain if the guys flying the flag were approached and asked to switch them around?

[Greyroofoo]

Does it matter?

[lordscarlet]

Does it matter?

Yes.

[heybrad]

Does it matter?
Sure it does. You don't think a quick... "Hey, did you know what you're doing there is not only illegal but pretty disrespectful as well."

[lordscarlet]

Sure it does. You don't think a quick... "Hey, did you know what you're doing there is not only illegal but pretty disrespectful as well."

Not to mention, as stated, it is not illegal. However, destruction of property and theft are.

[Greyroofoo]

Sure it does. You don't think a quick... "Hey, did you know what you're doing there is not only illegal but pretty disrespectful as well."

You think the store owners didn't know that?

They were purposefully flying the Mexican over the US flag in protest of immigration policies.

[heybrad]

You think the store owners didn't know that?

They were purposefully flying the Mexican over the US flag in protest of immigration policies.
Right... because all mexicans are here to take over the country. Gotcha.

[WVUFAN]

Right... because all mexicans are here to take over the country. Gotcha.

There's no other reason why he would be flying the Mexican flag over ours.

By the way, flying another country flag over the US flag is SPECIFICALLY mentioned as illegal -- Section 7, Title Four of the US Code. Link (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t01t04+11057+0++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28%284%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%287%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20)

But, these are the same people who blatantly ignore and encourage the breaking of immigration laws, so what's a little more illegal activity to them?

[ISiddiqui]

There's no other reason why he would be flying the Mexican flag over ours.

By the way, flying another country flag over the US flag is SPECIFICALLY mentioned as illegal -- Section 7, Title Four of the US Code. Link (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t01t04+11057+0++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28%284%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%287%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20)

But, these are the same people who blatantly ignore and encourage the breaking of immigration laws, so what's a little more illegal activity to them?

I'm thinking this Code section is used against people much. Mainly because I can easily see a court smacking it down under the 1st Amendment (takes precedent, obviously). I'm thinking the Code section about displaying multiple flags is more for publically owned buildings.

[WVUFAN]

I'm thinking this Code section is used against people much. Mainly because I can easily see a court smacking it down under the 1st Amendment (takes precedent, obviously). I'm thinking the Code section about displaying multiple flags is more for publically owned buildings.

Then someone should try challenging it. Until then, it IS illegal. The guy should be commended for what he did.

[Passacaglia]

Then someone should try challenging it. Until then, it IS illegal. The guy should be commended for what he did.

Vigilante justice FTW!!!!!11111111

[sabotai]

The guy should be commended for what he did.

While being arrested and tossed in jail for doing something illegal, right?

[sabotai]

dola,

Then someone should try challenging it. Until then, it IS illegal.

Not according to the Reno police department...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20071003-1738-nv-mexicanflag-flap.html

RENO, Nev. – Responding to a controversy over a Mexican flag flying at a local bar, Reno police and the American Civil Liberties Union issued statements Wednesday emphasizing it is not illegal to fly another flag above the American flag.

A Reno television station broadcast a story on Monday of a U.S. veteran, Jim Broussard, cutting down the U.S. flag flying above the bar and taking it away in protest of what the station reported was an illegal display of the flag.

...

The Reno Police Department said in a statement Wednesday that while the U.S. Code establishes protocol for the display of the American flag in relation to other flags, the protocol “is advisory and is not a criminal statute.


“There is no sanction for violation of the protocol and is not enforceable by local law enforcement,” the statement said.

[cthomer5000]

U-S-A! U-S-A!
U-S-A! U-S-A!
U-S-A! U-S-A!

[Noop]

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x105/Rico-23-/4yf4b9u.jpg


I know it has nothing to do with the thread but I wanted to post this photo.

[cthomer5000]

Someone should also take it upon themselves to burn down the business and/or kill the owner to really send a message.

[Poli]

I'm on my way.

[Dutch]

Somebody go hang an American flag in Mexico and put the Mexican flag underneath. You'll be thanking your lucky stars that the only thing that happens is they take your Mexican flag from you.

[Karlifornia]

Somebody go hang an American flag in Mexico and put the Mexican flag underneath. You'll be thanking your lucky stars that the only thing that happens is they take your Mexican flag from you.

Even if your perspective is indeed the correct one (I have never seen anyone try this, either in person, or on film; and I am assuming by the confidence in your statement that you have either partaken or witnessed such behavior), does responding in kind accomplish anything, but prove that we are on the same level of the people that you obviously consider to be second-class?


I'm distraught that people that claim to be so superior still get aroused by such empty symbolism. Use your rationality to rise above it. We are not cut from a pattern of cloth. We are a people who are civilized beyond the point of caring where our flag hangs. That is childs' play. If you must base the strength of this country on where its flag flies, then you are trivializing what America means.

LEAVE A FUCKING TAQUERIA ALONE.

[Dutch]

Even if your perspective is indeed the correct one (I have never seen anyone try this, either in person, or on film; and I am assuming by the confidence in your statement that you have either partaken or witnessed such behavior), does responding in kind accomplish anything, but prove that we are on the same level of the people that you obviously consider to be second-class?

Hyperbole much? Having lived in Los Angeles for 8 years, I have found that a vast majority of Mexican-Americans and/or Mexicans I saw were firecely nationalistic with regards to Mexico. Having lived in the US a good deal of my life, I can also say that relatively speaking, much more so than Mexican-Americans and/or Americans are with regards to America.

I'm distraught that people that claim to be so superior still get aroused by such empty symbolism. Use your rationality to rise above it. We are not cut from a pattern of cloth. We are a people who are civilized beyond the point of caring where our flag hangs. That is childs' play. If you must base the strength of this country on where its flag flies, then you are trivializing what America means.

Are you talking about the bar owner or the flag protester? ;)

Anyway,

The end result--rationally speaking--is that a $15 flag was stolen from private property. Yet, the symbolism of this has obviously offended you. Funny how that works, eh?

[Huckleberry]

Even if your perspective is indeed the correct one (I have never seen anyone try this, either in person, or on film; and I am assuming by the confidence in your statement that you have either partaken or witnessed such behavior), does responding in kind accomplish anything, but prove that we are on the same level of the people that you obviously consider to be second-class?

Where do you get that he thinks they're second-class? That's straight out of left field. And I have no problem being on the same level as Mexicans. They are a fiercely proud people. There's nothing wrong with that. Blatant disrespect for the country that they're in is pigheaded and immature and should not be tolerated. If Americans were to do this in another country it would be rightfully decried as ugly Americanism. It is only reasonable that we expect the same of our guests as they would expect from us.


I'm distraught that people that claim to be so superior still get aroused by such empty symbolism. Use your rationality to rise above it. We are not cut from a pattern of cloth. We are a people who are civilized beyond the point of caring where our flag hangs. That is childs' play. If you must base the strength of this country on where its flag flies, then you are trivializing what America means.

LEAVE A FUCKING TAQUERIA ALONE.
There's that straw man again. Nobody claimed to be superior except perhaps you. Your post is the only place where such a claim has been made. This very paragraph is filled with that implication. We are not beyond the point of caring where our flag hangs. It is a basic symbol of respect for your hosts and/or your nation. You imply that we are civilized beyond nearly every other country in the world. We are not. We are the same in most every way when it comes to nationalistic pride.

I, personally, put far less stock in our flag than most nationalists. If they ever try to make burning the flag illegal I'll fight that decision until I'm dead. But putting another nation's flag above ours on our soil is simply rude, obnoxious, and, as I said above, blatantly disrespectful. Trolls that engage in that kind of behavior absolutely deserve to be called out on it. I wouldn't defend an American who behaves that badly in a foreign country. Defending those doing the same here is hypocritical and screams of false morality.

[RedKingGold]

BTW, I'll repeat my earlier statements: Although the Flag Code is a federal statute, it carries no punitive measures (so what really can be done by violating this "law")

[Toddzilla]

Someone should also take it upon themselves to burn down the business and/or kill the owner to really send a message.I really LOL'd at this - this is why you guys need a regular spot on XM202.

[stevew]

I thought the guy was going to slice his fingers when he was trying to cut through the cord and set the flag free. That would have been funny.

[Toddzilla]

Anyone who sees some one breaking the law and responds by breaking the law themselves is a world-class idiot.

[Bubba Wheels]

The U.S. military treats the American Flag as a living thing. During events the color guard never turns its back on it. Many Americans have given their life for the flag. During the civil war if the flag-barer was killed or wounded a nearby-soldier would drop his own weapon to pick up and carry the flag. If you are an American citizen in a foreign country and you display the American Flag, be prepared to take some flak, if your lucky.

You want to be in this country and fly a third-world country's flag like Mexico over the American one? You get what you deserve.

[WVUFAN]

The U.S. military treats the American Flag as a living thing. During events the color guard never turns its back on it. Many Americans have given their life for the flag. During the civil war if the flag-barer was killed or wounded a nearby-soldier would drop his own weapon to pick up and carry the flag. If you are an American citizen in a foreign country and you display the American Flag, be prepared to take some flak, if your lucky.

You want to be in this country and fly a third-world country's flag like Mexico over the American one? You get what you deserve.

AMEN.

[WVUFAN]

dola,



Not according to the Reno police department...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20071003-1738-nv-mexicanflag-flap.html

RENO, Nev. – Responding to a controversy over a Mexican flag flying at a local bar, Reno police and the American Civil Liberties Union issued statements Wednesday emphasizing it is not illegal to fly another flag above the American flag.

A Reno television station broadcast a story on Monday of a U.S. veteran, Jim Broussard, cutting down the U.S. flag flying above the bar and taking it away in protest of what the station reported was an illegal display of the flag.

...

The Reno Police Department said in a statement Wednesday that while the U.S. Code establishes protocol for the display of the American flag in relation to other flags, the protocol “is advisory and is not a criminal statute.


“There is no sanction for violation of the protocol and is not enforceable by local law enforcement,” the statement said.

It's a FEDERAL STATUTE, not a local one. The Reno Police are either being cowardly by not enforcing it, or idiotic for refusing to recognize it.

[miked]

America...FUCK YEAH!!

[sabotai]

It's a FEDERAL STATUTE, not a local one. The Reno Police are either being cowardly by not enforcing it, or idiotic for refusing to recognize it.

Or, the far more likely scenario, they know the law and you don't.

Also, would this police department be cowardly for not arresting and tossing the guy who committed theft and damage to private property in jail? Second time I've basically asked you this question. Interesting how you avoid it.

EDIT:

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7163998&nav=8faO

You said earlier about people should challenge the law. According to the ACLU (GASP!) of Nevada, some people have.

"Several federal courts have examined this law and held that the flag rules are not mandatory and cannot be enforced. Indeed, if the federal flag rules were mandatory, they would clearly violate the First Amendment, which protects every American's right to speak and express themselves, including their choice of flag to display."

[Karlifornia]

Where do you get that he thinks they're second-class? That's straight out of left field.

Good call...I made an assumption there, and my judgement was lacking. Sorry, Dutch.


There's that straw man again. Nobody claimed to be superior except perhaps you. Your post is the only place where such a claim has been made. This very paragraph is filled with that implication. We are not beyond the point of caring where our flag hangs. It is a basic symbol of respect for your hosts and/or your nation. You imply that we are civilized beyond nearly every other country in the world. We are not. We are the same in most every way when it comes to nationalistic pride.

I, personally, put far less stock in our flag than most nationalists. If they ever try to make burning the flag illegal I'll fight that decision until I'm dead. But putting another nation's flag above ours on our soil is simply rude, obnoxious, and, as I said above, blatantly disrespectful. Trolls that engage in that kind of behavior absolutely deserve to be called out on it. I wouldn't defend an American who behaves that badly in a foreign country. Defending those doing the same here is hypocritical and screams of false morality.

It's not false morality. False morality is the video that was posted. Dude thinks he did some great thing like curing cancer. He didn't. He destroyed somebody's personal property because of some petty superiority complex. I get that he served our country. I thank him. He is a bigger man than I just for that. The question I ask is, what war is he fighting there? The war against enchilada platters? They were hanging the American Flag. They didn't have it as a welcome mat. I think it's just childish. Maybe that makes me childish for getting worked up about it, creating a vortex of juvenile behavior!

[Bubba Wheels]

This is the thing that makes me think we are heading for a big split in this country. Disrespecting the American flag in any form is as offensive to some groups of people like veterans as hanging a noose in a tree would be to black folks. But you see the same liberals that are rightfully upset about the nooses being two-faced and defending desecration of the flag because 'there are no laws' that prevent it.

[RedKingGold]

It's a FEDERAL STATUTE, not a local one. The Reno Police are either being cowardly by not enforcing it, or idiotic for refusing to recognize it.

How would they enforce it? :confused:

[mckerney]

Many Americans have given their life for the flag.

You sure it was the flag Americans have given their lives for and not the ideals and freedom it's supposed to represent?

Nah, I'm sure it was just the piece cloth.

[Bubba Wheels]

You sure it was the flag Americans have given their lives for and not the ideals and freedom it's supposed to represent?

Nah, I'm sure it was just the piece cloth.

Well, again, by your own logic a noose hanging in a tree that was never used in an actual 'lynching' should not be offensive to anyone. After all, its just a 'symbol' of something, right?

[Toddzilla]

I commend the old coot for being patriotic and wanting something done about the US flag, but he crossed the line from "patriot" to "wackjob" when he basically desecrated both flags and broke a few laws at the same time. If it really bothered him that much, he just should have called the police and let them handle it - if the police refused to take any action, then tough shit.

This is the thing that makes me think we are heading for a big split in this country. Disrespecting the American flag in any form is as offensive to some groups of people like veterans as hanging a noose in a tree would be to black folks. But you see the same liberals that are rightfully upset about the nooses being two-faced and defending desecration of the flag because 'there are no laws' that prevent it.

Bubba, there's already been a split, and your kind was left behind in the 19th century. You may want to join the rest of us in modern America where threatening someone's life is different that the position of a flag on a pole.

:rolleyes:

[Bubba Wheels]

I commend the old coot for being patriotic and wanting something done about the US flag, but he crossed the line from "patriot" to "wackjob" when he basically desecrated both flags and broke a few laws at the same time. If it really bothered him that much, he just should have called the police and let them handle it - if the police refused to take any action, then tough shit.



Bubba, there's already been a split, and your kind was left behind in the 19th century. You may want to join the rest of us in modern America where threatening someone's life is different that the position of a flag on a pole.

:rolleyes:


Oh really? "My kind' support this country by defending it in the armed forces regardless of who gets elected President, even a draft-dodger like Clinton or an anti-war protester like his wife during the 60s. That's why the flag actually means something to 'my kind.' Your 'kind' thinks that the military 'owes' your 'right' to desecrate symbols like the flag. And all I'm saying is that a change might be coming, comrade.

[mckerney]

defending desecration of the flag because 'there are no laws' that prevent it.

I don't think they're defending the desecration of the flag, they're defending the right to. And it's not because there are no laws preventing it, it's because any law prohibiting the desecration of the flag is in violation of the freedoms that are supposed to be guaranteed to us as Americans. If we violate those freedoms and ignore those ideals which the flag is supposed to represent, then it becomes meaningless. And yes, that even means the right of people to desecrate the flag.

Well, again, by your own logic a noose hanging in a tree that was never used in an actual 'lynching' should not be offensive to anyone. After all, its just a 'symbol' of something, right?

Well you don't seem to be using any sort of logic, and big surprise, you missed the fucking point.

[Bubba Wheels]

I don't think they're defending the desecration of the flag, they're defending the right to. And it's not because there are no laws preventing it, it's because any law prohibiting the desecration of the flag is in violation of the freedoms that are supposed to be guaranteed to us as Americans. If we violate those freedoms and ignore those ideals which the flag is supposed to represent, then it becomes meaningless. And yes, that even means the right of people to desecrate the flag.



Well you don't seem to be using any sort of logic, and big surprise, you missed the fucking point.

Flag and noose are both just symbols. No logic in getting upset about the one if you don't have a problem with offending people with the other (the desecration of it.) Makes perfect sense, logically, even if you don't want to see it.

[mckerney]

Flag and noose are both just symbols. No logic in getting upset about the one if you don't have a problem with offending people with the other (the desecration of it.) Makes perfect sense, logically.


I never said it was a problem to get upset with the desecration of the flag. There's a big difference between being upset that someone is desecrating the flag and banning desecration of the flag.

[Bubba Wheels]

I never said it was a problem to get upset with the desecration of the flag. There's a big difference between being upset that someone is desecrating the flag and banning desecration of the flag.


Should hanging a noose in a tree be allowable? There is no logic as to why one is allowed (desecration of the flag) and one (hanging a noose) is not. It comes down to one is tolerated and one isn't. Both should not be tolerated.

[sabotai]

Should hanging a noose in a tree be allowable?

On what tree? Is the tree publicly owned or privately owned?

[mckerney]

Should hanging a noose in a tree be allowable? There is no logic as to why one is allowed (desecration of the flag) and one (hanging a noose) is not. It comes down to one is tolerated and one isn't. Both should not be tolerated.

I'd put it in the same category as cross burning. The act of burning a cross is completely legal. But you can't do it to threaten or intimidate someone. The act of hanging a noose in a tree is rarely done without the intent to threaten or intimidate someone. If someone were to hang a cross as say as part of a haloween decoration it may be in poor taste, but if not in the context as a threat of violence it wouldn't be illegal. If someone were to desecrate the flag in a way that it were a threat of violence it should be illegal, but that's rarely the case. There's a big difference if the symbol being used is done in protest of a threat. Threats of violence aren't protected as free speech, protests are.

[WVUFAN]

Bubba, there's already been a split, and your kind was left behind in the 19th century. You may want to join the rest of us in modern America where threatening someone's life is different that the position of a flag on a pole.

:rolleyes:

"His kind"? You mean the type that believe in THIS country, believe that the flag symbolizes this country and what they were founded on. You look at it as a piece of cloth, I see it as something VERY important, and it flat out pisses me and many, many others to see it demeaned.

Ask most veterans and current members of the military when they would do if they saw some idiot flying a Mexican flag above a US flag, and you'll get much the same response that the vet in that video had.

I guess until you've actually SERVED this country (which I figure you have not) you have NO FUCKING CLUE what that flag symbolizes. And you evidently don't care, either.

"His kind"? You're a Fucking MORON.

[mckerney]

"His kind"? You mean the type that believe in THIS country, believe that the flag symbolizes this country and what they were founded on. You look at it as a piece of cloth, I see it as something VERY important, and it flat out pisses me and many, many others to see it demeaned.

Can you stop with this childish and adolescent bullshit that people who don't believe that desecration of the flag should be outlawed don't see any meaning in the flag? They see the flag as representing something very important too, but the flag itself is not more meaningful or important that what it represents. And one of the things it represents is the first amendment rights that exists for all people in the lands that the flag flies above. And that first amendment right extends to any opinion or view point, even if it would desecrate the flag. Anything else is destroying everything that the meaning behind the flag stands for.

[Toddzilla]

Flag and noose are both just symbols. No logic in getting upset about the one if you don't have a problem with offending people with the other (the desecration of it.) Makes perfect sense, logically, even if you don't want to see it.Wrong. One is a symbol of hate, oppression, and a threat of violence or death, and the other is the symbol of our country. I'm surprised that even a "patriot" like yourself would be so dumb as to equate one with the other. Please stop trying to think logically, you're not equipped for it.

[tripps04]

Sorry, I just wanted to post, in case this topic becomes gold.

[Toddzilla]

"His kind"? You mean the type that believe in THIS country, believe that the flag symbolizes this country and what they were founded on. You look at it as a piece of cloth, I see it as something VERY important, and it flat out pisses me and many, many others to see it demeaned.

Ask most veterans and current members of the military when they would do if they saw some idiot flying a Mexican flag above a US flag, and you'll get much the same response that the vet in that video had.

I guess until you've actually SERVED this country (which I figure you have not) you have NO FUCKING CLUE what that flag symbolizes. And you evidently don't care, either.

"His kind"? You're a Fucking MORON.That whizzing you just heard over your head was the point of my argument. I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone argued what the flag may or may not symbolize, and I'm positive I never stated what the flag means to *me*, so either you're very poor at mind-reading, or as usual in these threads you've completely missed the point and resorted to doing what you do best - make blanket generalizations about people you don't agree with.

I wasn't talking about the symbolism of the flag, I was talking about the clown who was upset that someone was "breaking the law" with regards to the flag, so he in turn "broke the law". You call him a patriot, I call him an idiot. This has nothing to do with the flag, my friend.

Rick Monday? Now that guy is a hero.

[Toddzilla]

Sorry, I just wanted to post, in case this topic becomes gold.You learn fast grasshopper

[Toddzilla]

Can you stop with this childish and adolescent bullshit that people who don't believe that desecration of the flag should be outlawed don't see any meaning in the flag? They see the flag as representing something very important too, but the flag itself is not more meaningful or important that what it represents. And one of the things it represents is the first amendment rights that exists for all people in the lands that the flag flies above. And that first amendment right extends to any opinion or view point, even if it would desecrate the flag. Anything else is destroying everything that the meaning behind the flag stands for.+1

[WVUFAN]

Wrong. One is a symbol of hate, oppression, and a threat of violence or death, and the other is the symbol of our country. I'm surprised that even a "patriot" like yourself would be so dumb as to equate one with the other. Please stop trying to think logically, you're not equipped for it.

Regardless of what they represent, they are still both symbols, and both cause strong emotions. To say one symbol shouldn't be allowed while the other can be stomped upon, either figuratively or literally, is hypocricy. If people (and rightly so) can be pissed off at a noose and what it represents, to the point where using it is considered a hate crime, why shouldn't people get just as pissed off or more so when a positive symbol like the American flag is pissed on.

In this case, the owner of this bar put the Mexican flag on top of the US on for no other reason but to demean the American one while elevating the Mexican one.

And to answer Sabotai, I have no doubt that in this environment where we're catering to 12 million illegal felons, the police will go after the guy who cut down the Mexican flag. That's just the way things are nowadays ... ass-backwards.

To me, the man's a patriot, and we need more assertive people like that in this country.

[WVUFAN]

Can you stop with this childish and adolescent bullshit that people who don't believe that desecration of the flag should be outlawed don't see any meaning in the flag? They see the flag as representing something very important too, but the flag itself is not more meaningful or important that what it represents.

Bullshit. I'll betcha anything that if someone in 1780 had burned the American flag would have been tried and convicted with the approval of the very people who created the 1st Amendment. It was not intended for something like this, and is only allowed because a few idiot Judges 300 years later "interpreted" the First Amendment in that fashion.

And, on a completely different tangent, the same people who scream "1st Amendment!" to the high heavens are the very same people who conveniently ignores the 2nd Amendment. Funny how that crap works, eh?

Jefferson is probably rolling over in his grave.

[WVUFAN]

That whizzing you just heard over your head was the point of my argument. I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone argued what the flag may or may not symbolize, and I'm positive I never stated what the flag means to *me*, so either you're very poor at mind-reading, or as usual in these threads you've completely missed the point and resorted to doing what you do best - make blanket generalizations about people you don't agree with.

Whatever. Personally, it sure as hell sounded like you were insulting someone for not agreeing with you, and making blanket generalizations about him ("his kind" needs to get out of the 19th century). If that's not a blanket generalization, I don't know what is.

But, you are right ... I'm generalizing the group of people who defend the desecration of the flag. I have zero respect for someone who feels so little about this country that they'll defend someone's right to desecrate the very symbol of it. I don't see any defense to it, 1st Amendment on not. If you are defending someone's right to destroy the very flag I served under, you, sir, are a class A idiot.

If you're not someone who defends that, then you have my sincere apologies.

See? That's MY 1st Amendment rights coming out.


I wasn't talking about the symbolism of the flag, I was talking about the clown who was upset that someone was "breaking the law" with regards to the flag, so he in turn "broke the law". You call him a patriot, I call him an idiot. This has nothing to do with the flag, my friend.
It was obvious by the very statements of the Reno police they had no intentions of upholding that law, so someone had to.

[Toddzilla]

Whatever. Personally, it sure as hell sounded like you were insulting someone for not agreeing with you, and making blanket generalizations about him ("his kind" needs to get out of the 19th century). If that's not a blanket generalization, I don't know what is.

But, you are right ... I'm generalizing the group of people who defend the desecration of the flag. I have zero respect for someone who feels so little about this country that they'll defend someone's right to desecrate the very symbol of it. I don't see any defense to it, 1st Amendment on not. If you are defending someone's right to destroy the very flag I served under, you, sir, are a class A idiot.

If you're not someone who defends that, then you have my sincere apologies.

See? That's MY 1st Amendment rights coming out.


It was obvious by the very statements of the Reno police they had no intentions of upholding that law, so someone had to.I'm glad we agree to disagree :)

[JeffNights]

Its very clear to me that those who have served a post "get it", and those who dont...just dont.

and for those that would call me just an "idiot" for feeling so passionately about a "piece of cloth", well thats fine with me too. Your opinion is what it is. Names and rhetoric will not change my beliefs.

The flag is simply much more than a piece of cloth to me, it represents the oath I took to defend my country, it represents my brothers who I have had the absolute privledge and honor to stand beside, and it represents the blood of my fallen brothers who I pay my respects to everytime I salute the flag. That is what the flag means to me.

[RedKingGold]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[JeffNights]

Sigh.

[Toddzilla]

Its very clear to me that those who have served a post "get it", and those who dont...just dont.

and for those that would call me just an "idiot" for feeling so passionately about a "piece of cloth", well thats fine with me too. Your opinion is what it is. Names and rhetoric will not change my beliefs.

The flag is simply much more than a piece of cloth to me, it represents the oath I took to defend my country, it represents my brothers who I have had the absolute privledge and honor to stand beside, and it represents the blood of my fallen brothers who I pay my respects to everytime I salute the flag. That is what the flag means to me.That's awesome. I don't think anyone in this thread has called anyone else and "idiot" for feeling passionate about the American flag, or for loving what it represents. I respect your opinion and your feelings.

I called the guy in the video an idiot, not because he loves his country or because he loves the flag, but because he broke the law - specifically because he saw someone breaking the law and responded by breaking it himself. If he'd called the police, protested the restaurant, organized a boycott, raised the issue to the local media, or done anything else to right the wrong that was being done, I'd even call him a hero. But he took the law into his own hands, and that makes him an asshat.

Hey, I will never disrespect the American flag. I'll never burn it, desecrate it, or otherwise bring dishonor to it. To the same point, I'm not going to get all bent out of shape if someone else does.

[JeffNights]

I called the guy in the video an idiot, not because he loves his country or because he loves the flag, but because he broke the law - specifically because he saw someone breaking the law and responded by breaking it himself. Hey, I will never disrespect the American flag. I'll never burn it, desecrate it, or otherwise bring dishonor to it. To the same point, I'm not going to get all bent out of shape if someone else does.



Different strokes, different folks.


I may fall under your classification then, I would have marched right up to the store owner and demanded his explanation(this is if he spoke English)and when he was finished promptly demand that he alter his setup, if he refused I would have done exactly what the veteran in the video did. It is what it is, call me what you will, thats what I would do.

You said you not going to get bent out of shape when someone brings dishonor to the flag, I do, and have, and will everytime I see it happening.


We are have different ways of thinking, I will not change yours and you wil not change mine, but that however is something I dont get bent out of shape abour because that, in my opinion, is exactly what the 1st amendment is.

[heybrad]

I would have marched right up to the store owner and demanded his explanation(this is if he spoke English)and when he was finished promptly demand that he alter his setup, if he refused I would have done exactly what the veteran in the video did. It is what it is, call me what you will, thats what I would do.
Actually, I don't have a problem with this, but you may notice a fundamental difference between your actions and the guy in the video.

[Bubba Wheels]

That's awesome. I don't think anyone in this thread has called anyone else and "idiot" for feeling passionate about the American flag, or for loving what it represents. I respect your opinion and your feelings.

I called the guy in the video an idiot, not because he loves his country or because he loves the flag, but because he broke the law - specifically because he saw someone breaking the law and responded by breaking it himself. If he'd called the police, protested the restaurant, organized a boycott, raised the issue to the local media, or done anything else to right the wrong that was being done, I'd even call him a hero. But he took the law into his own hands, and that makes him an asshat.

Hey, I will never disrespect the American flag. I'll never burn it, desecrate it, or otherwise bring dishonor to it. To the same point, I'm not going to get all bent out of shape if someone else does.

:rolleyes:

[Schmidty]

I haven't and won't read this (most likely) abortion of a thread, but I will say thank you to Jeff for serving us and your country.

[Dutch]

Good call...I made an assumption there, and my judgement was lacking. Sorry, Dutch.

The big misconception about apologies is that people think you must rescind your opinion on a matter. You don't (and you didn't). However, it still takes a big man to apologize without making excuses.

Your retinue has increased! :)

[Mac Howard]

Can't understand why you guys are not up in arms about some guy ripping a hole in the American flag ;)

[miked]

I went to the Greek festival in Atlanta last night. Wsa fun, ate good food, saw fun dancing, and there were Greek flags everywhere. Not only that, but National Guardsman standing idly by while said Greek flags were waved and no American flags were! The humanity. I'm fairly certain if I were to walk down Buford Highway, I'd see tons of flags being waved and not all of them would be American. What a cool country we live in where people can express themselves by flying a flag without fear of death or retribution. I don't think any of these people desecrated our flag, they simply have pride in where they come from.

Thanks to those who served our country, but please stop telling me that I can't understand what being an American is because I didn't. It pisses me off to end seing people burning the flag because it's disrespectful. But at the same time I recognize that being an American means I have to respect their rights. If they can't see the irony, oh well, I'm intelligent enough to understand and move on.

[Raiders Army]

I went to the Greek festival in Atlanta last night. Wsa fun, ate good food, saw fun dancing, and there were Greek flags everywhere. Not only that, but National Guardsman standing idly by while said Greek flags were waved and no American flags were! The humanity. I'm fairly certain if I were to walk down Buford Highway, I'd see tons of flags being waved and not all of them would be American. What a cool country we live in where people can express themselves by flying a flag without fear of death or retribution. I don't think any of these people desecrated our flag, they simply have pride in where they come from.

Thanks to those who served our country, but please stop telling me that I can't understand what being an American is because I didn't. It pisses me off to end seing people burning the flag because it's disrespectful. But at the same time I recognize that being an American means I have to respect their rights. If they can't see the irony, oh well, I'm intelligent enough to understand and move on.

If you don't see the difference in waving Greek flags at a Greek festival and putting a Mexican flag above the United States of America flag, then you don't understand what being an American is.

Anyhow, I think I get what you're trying to say, but I think it came out wrongly.

---break break---

I have two comments on this:

1. If you love Mexico so much, go the hell back there.
2. The guy was clearly wrong to take the law in his own hands.

[larrymcg421]

The Supreme Court case Texas vs. Johnson pretty much invalidates that code. The city's not going to enforce the law because they're not going to spend the money to defend a lawsuit from the ACLU that would almost certainly be successful.

The current make up of the court has at least 5 justices that will side with the owner: Scalia, Kennedy, Ginsburg, Breyer, Souter. WW2 vet Stevens actually was in the minority on the flag burning case, but I believe he's changed his opinion since then.

[larrymcg421]

Somebody go hang an American flag in Mexico and put the Mexican flag underneath. You'll be thanking your lucky stars that the only thing that happens is they take your Mexican flag from you.

So is the argument we should be more like Mexico?

[heybrad]

1. If you love Mexico so much, go the hell back there.
I'll be sure to pass that along to my wife's family, all of which are good law abiding, proud citizens of this country while also being very proud of where they've come from. Some of which have even served in our military. Try reconciling that with your pea brained comment.

[miked]

If you don't see the difference in waving Greek flags at a Greek festival and putting a Mexican flag above the United States of America flag, then you don't understand what being an American is.

Anyhow, I think I get what you're trying to say, but I think it came out wrongly.

---break break---

I have two comments on this:

1. If you love Mexico so much, go the hell back there.
2. The guy was clearly wrong to take the law in his own hands.

What I was trying to say is that they are proud of where they came from. My grandfather knew that life was better here in America and would never disrespect the American flag. But he was very proud of his homeland before it was engulfed by communism and would sometimes have Hungarian flags and relics displayed. I don't see the order of the flags as amazingly important or controversial, especially since it was a private business. I didn't serve in the forces and I didn't defend the flag, but I just think people are more consumed with the symbol, rather than the symbolism. And I hate people telling me how to be an American and that they are moreso because of serving. They definately have my respect, but they have no more idea of what American is than I.

[larrymcg421]

Bullshit. I'll betcha anything that if someone in 1780 had burned the American flag would have been tried and convicted with the approval of the very people who created the 1st Amendment. It was not intended for something like this, and is only allowed because a few idiot Judges 300 years later "interpreted" the First Amendment in that fashion.

The 14th amendment was definitely not intended to end desegregation of schools or allow interracial marriages and that exact argument was used by state counsel in both Brown v. Board and Loving v. Virginia. I'm pretty glad that line of thinking was rejected by the court in both cases (and many others).

And, on a completely different tangent, the same people who scream "1st Amendment!" to the high heavens are the very same people who conveniently ignores the 2nd Amendment. Funny how that crap works, eh?

Not all of us...

But, you are right ... I'm generalizing the group of people who defend the desecration of the flag. I have zero respect for someone who feels so little about this country that they'll defend someone's right to desecrate the very symbol of it. I don't see any defense to it, 1st Amendment on not. If you are defending someone's right to destroy the very flag I served under, you, sir, are a class A idiot.

While I fully respect your opinion that I'm an idiot (you're certainly not the only person with that opinion, heh), I think part of this paragraph is misguided. It has nothing to do with feeling "so little" about this country. To me, the flag (and the country) means so much more because the citizens live in a free society where it can be burned or it can be displayed improperly. It's the same society that allows you to call those people assholes, organize a protest of their business, etc.

By the way, the only way to insure there will be a major increase in flag desecration is to prosecute people for it. Every idiot with a cause will start doing it because it will then get them on the news.

[Raiders Army]

I'll be sure to pass that along to my wife's family, all of which are good law abiding, proud citizens of this country while also being very proud of where they've come from. Some of which have even served in our military. Try reconciling that with your pea brained comment.

Take it however you want. If your wife and their family like Mexico so much that they will put that country above the one they are in, then go back there. I'm not saying you shouldn't be proud of where you're from. You should be; but not to the extent that you think that country is better than the one you're living in. That is what putting the Mexican flag above the U.S.A. flag symbolizes.

[Raiders Army]

Also, does your wife consider herself a Mexican living in the United States or a United States citizen originally from Mexico? If it's the former, then that attitude contributes to the division of people; if it's the latter, I would submit that that attitude aids in the "melting pot" we are supposed to have.

[Raiders Army]

What I was trying to say is that they are proud of where they came from. My grandfather knew that life was better here in America and would never disrespect the American flag. But he was very proud of his homeland before it was engulfed by communism and would sometimes have Hungarian flags and relics displayed. I don't see the order of the flags as amazingly important or controversial, especially since it was a private business. I didn't serve in the forces and I didn't defend the flag, but I just think people are more consumed with the symbol, rather than the symbolism. And I hate people telling me how to be an American and that they are moreso because of serving. They definately have my respect, but they have no more idea of what American is than I.

Good points and I understand where you're coming from. I agree that just because someone has served in the Armed Forces they don't have a better idea of what is American...just like someone who has taught school kids or fought forest fires or has traded stocks on the market has any better idea. It takes all of us to work as a country.

While you don't see the order of flags as controversial, please realize that there are people who do and when you tell them that it doesn't make a difference that is the same as people who have served in the Armed Forces telling you that you don't know what it is to be American. There are two (possible more) different idealogies here. All sides should respect the others' opinions while they don't necessarily agree.

I think we all agree that the guy was wrong to take the law in his own hands.

[Greyroofoo]

I think we all agree that the guy was wrong to take the law in his own hands.

I don't agree. Sure it was illegal. Wrong? No.

He saw someone shitting on the flag and decided to protect Old Glory.

[larrymcg421]

I don't agree. Sure it was illegal. Wrong? No.

He saw someone shitting on the flag and decided to protect Old Glory.

There is some irony there, because of the many things the flag represents, one of them would also be the law that this guy broke to defend it.

[Klinglerware]

Yes, I would agree that the flag represents our values as a liberal democracy. But when the symbol trumps the values it represents, that I have a problem with....

[mckerney]

Yes, I would agree that the flag represents our values as a liberal democracy. But when the symbol trumps the values it represents, that I have a problem with....

+1

[BrianD]

I am a bit surprised that everybody jumping to this guy's defense has failed to be unhappy with the fact that after he removed it, he basically balled it up and walked away from it. Isn't balling up the flag just about as bad as flying it below another flag?

Even though I've never been part of the military, I have great respect for the flag. I'd even vote for an amendment which provides an exception to the First Amendment and criminalizes desecration of the flag. I'm all for protest and dissent, but I'd like to see it done in ways which don't touch the flag.

[Izulde]

During the civil war if the flag-barer was killed or wounded a nearby-soldier would drop his own weapon to pick up and carry the flag.

This isn't unique to American armies, by the way.

The 75th of Turkey's army all died during the Battle of Gallopoli.

How did they know all the soldiers in that division died?

Simple. The flag from that division was found alone and it was a rule that at least one soldier had to carry the flag at all times.

I would think it's a standard rule, come to think of it.

[Mac Howard]

I've watched the video again and am coming to the conclusion that it's just a media beatup. The tv company got reports that some shopkeeper was flying the flags (I doubt he had any idea of the legality of positioning of the flags, why would a shopkeeper deliberately insult his potential customers?) and they sent a camera down there for the story.

But the story isn't up to much so they found a vet, wound him up about the flag being insulted by a Mexican, and filmed his confused response (wasn't it convenient that the cameras were right there when this happened?). Note the guy says nothing about the positioning of the flag, in fact doesn't mention the Mexican flag at all. His words suggest that a Mexican has no right to fly an American flag (he talks about "my flag" and "he'll have to fight (or is that f*ck") me for the flag"). He leaves the Mexican flag on the pole implying that the guy has a right to fly that flag - but not an American one. The legal niceties of flying two flags isn't his bag but he knows there's an insult there somewhere.

The tv company gets a nice little news filler which appeals to the anti-illegal immigrant community and the "Americans are too patriotic" communities simultaneously :rolleyes:

[Greyroofoo]

I've watched the video again and am coming to the conclusion that it's just a media beatup. The tv company got reports that some shopkeeper was flying the flags <b>(I doubt he had any idea of the legality of positioning of the flags, why would a shopkeeper deliberately insult his potential customers?)</b> and they sent a camera down there for the story.

But the story isn't up to much so they found a vet, wound him up about the flag being insulted by a Mexican, and filmed his confused response. Note he says nothing about the positioning of the flag, in fact doesn't mention the Mexican flag at all. His words suggest that a Mexican has no right to fly an American flag (he talks about "my flag" and "he'll have to fight (or is that f*ck") me for the flag"). He leaves the Mexican flag on the pole implying that the guy has a right to fly that flag - but not a American flag. The legal niceties of flying two flags isn't his bag but he knows there's an insult there somewhere.

The tv company gets a nice little news filler which appeals to the anti-illegal immigrant community.

The fllags were protesting immigration policy

[Mac Howard]

The fllags were protesting immigration policy

Then I guess we should give him two cheers for putting his political commitment above his commercial interests regardless of our view on his politics :)

[Greyroofoo]

I have no problem with someone showing his Mexican heritage.

I just ask that s/he be an American First.

[Joe]

what is hooh-ah

[flere-imsaho]

Oh really? "My kind' support this country by defending it in the armed forces regardless of who gets elected President,

I had no idea you served, Bubba! When was this?

Sorry, I just wanted to post, in case this topic becomes gold.

Heh, unlikely. :)

[Pumpy Tudors]

what is hooh-ah
IF YOU SERVED YOUR COUNTRY, YOU'D KNOW THAT

[WVUFAN]

I've watched the video again and am coming to the conclusion that it's just a media beatup. The tv company got reports that some shopkeeper was flying the flags (I doubt he had any idea of the legality of positioning of the flags, why would a shopkeeper deliberately insult his potential customers?) and they sent a camera down there for the story.

The shopkeeper knew exactly what he was doing, as they had tried to interview him about it and he wouldn't speak (and this was before the guy showed up to take the flags down)


He leaves the Mexican flag on the pole implying that the guy has a right to fly that flag - but not an American one. The legal niceties of flying two flags isn't his bag but he knows there's an insult there somewhere.

Oh, come on. Did you even watch the whole video? He took BOTH flags off the pole, took the American one with him, and dropped the Mexican one on the floor, because the shopkeeper walked up after the vet had left, picked the Mexican one off the ground and went into his bar, refusing to speak to the reporter.

[Bubba Wheels]

I had no idea you served, Bubba! When was this?



Heh, unlikely. :)

Six years, smartass, U.S. Army mostly Germany 1980s. KMA

[Greyroofoo]

what is hooh-ah

Here is your answer (http://www.amazon.com/HOOAH-Soldier-Energy-Chocolate-2-29-Ounce/dp/B0009XH7KO/ref=sr_1_1/103-4615494-4856663?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1191874578&sr=8-1)

[JeffNights]

what is hooh-ah


It is a Ranger "yell/exclamation", different groups have different ways of pronoucning it...

[Klinglerware]

Here is your answer (http://www.amazon.com/HOOAH-Soldier-Energy-Chocolate-2-29-Ounce/dp/B0009XH7KO/ref=sr_1_1/103-4615494-4856663?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1191874578&sr=8-1)

''In field tests with Army Rangers, it produced a 17 percent increase
in physical endurance" compared to other energy bars, Darsch said. ''It
enables warfighters to think faster, move quicker, and run farther."

The first thought that came to my mind was, "banned by baseball".

[JeffNights]

Quote:
''In field tests with Army Rangers, it produced a 17 percent increase
in physical endurance" compared to other energy bars, Darsch said. ''It
enables warfighters to think faster, move quicker, and run farther"


I never heard of this when i was in.


More likely the company pays the Ranger Association to use its associated name in product advertising and claims.

[Mac Howard]

Oh, come on. Did you even watch the whole video?


Of course not. Why would I view a video before commenting on it? :rolleyes:

He took BOTH flags off the pole, took the American one with him, and dropped the Mexican one on the floor, because the shopkeeper walked up after the vet had left, picked the Mexican one off the ground and went into his bar, refusing to speak to the reporter.

He drew the flags down and cut the American flag away leaving the Mexican flag on the line which he then dropped and walked away. The Mexican could easily have hauled up the Mexican flag alone as far as the vet was concerned. But presumably that would not have been much of a protest.

The vet then walked away with the American flag and his words made it clear that his objection was that the Mexican had no right to fly the American flag. Listen to what he says - though he's partly incoherent because of his anger he makes no reference whatsoever either to the positioning of the flags or the Mexican flag itself. That comes purely from the tv anchorman. The vet's somewhat confused complaint was concerned purely with the Mexican's right, or lack of right, to fly the American flag. It was an anti-immigrant rant - (illegal) immigrants don't have the right to fly the American flag (I'm not at all sure he would insist on the word "illegal").

What I'm getting at, perhaps not very well, is that there's an "only a pawn in their game" aspect here. The tv crew is using the vet. For their own political agenda maybe or merely to produce a more sensational news story, I wouldn't know. If, as you say, the Mexican wouldn't be interviewed, then they didn't have much of a story - just a few seconds of video showing the flags. They needed more and they got the vet to supply it. They got the vet to play hero/fool (depending on your viewpoint) to make their story. They used/abused him.

[st.cronin]

I haven't watched the video, but to this day when I hear the word "Ranger" I get hungry. Ranger school = hard

[Cork]

Six years, smartass, U.S. Army mostly Germany 1980s. KMA


I was stationed in Hanau West Germany from 1984 to 1986. Where were you located when you were there?

-Cork

[Bubba Wheels]

I was stationed in Hanau West Germany from 1984 to 1986. Where were you located when you were there?

-Cork

Siegelsbach and Baumholder 80-82, Frankfurt 85-87. Point of interest...renowned cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer was also in Baumholder during that time frame, though not in my unit. :eek: