Heartbreaking Story on Two Unemployed Subprime Lending Executives

[Vegas Vic]

This is a heartbreaking story of two subprime lending executives who are now facing the horrors of unemployment. This part really got me choked up:

Despite their financial problems, the Copes have worked hard to protect their credit rating, staying current on bills. And they've made cutbacks: trading in Kent's Corvette for a Suburban and getting rid of the gardener, for example.

Full Story ( http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/31/news/economy/copes/index.htm?postversion=2008033105)

[Fidatelo]

LOL!

"Honey, umm, we're going to have to get rid of the Gardener until I find work..."

"Fuck you, I want a divorce. This was not what I signed up for."

[molson]

It's all relative.

I'm sure there's people on this board that would consider it "heartbreaking" if someone had to move from a house to an apartment (see the threads about the proposed government bail-out plans).

Definition of "rich" - someone with more money than you.

[sachmo71]

Kent and Mysti Cope were well-paid executives at subprime lenders who never thought the industry could disappear overnight. Now they're just trying to get by.


You didn't think it would disappear? You made loans to people who couldn't afford them, and your surprised?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Definition of "rich" - someone with more money than you.

Pretty much, best I can tell.

[Greyroofoo]

I think owning a Corvette makes you "rich" by any definition.

[Greyroofoo]

dola,

and also having a gardener

[Pumpy Tudors]

i took my gardener's corvette away

[miked]

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[Subby]

That story wasn't heartbreaking at all.

[Schmidty]

It's all relative.

I'm sure there's people on this board that would consider it "heartbreaking" if someone had to move from a house to an apartment (see the threads about the proposed government bail-out plans).

Definition of "rich" - someone with more money than you.

No offense, but that's silly. Capitalism is a good concept, but common sense and perspective is even greater.

[Subby]

No offense, but that's silly. Capitalism is a good concept, but common sense and perspective is even greater.
No he's right. I would kill myself if I had to live in an apartment again. Apartments are for commoners. It's heartbreaking, really.

NOTHING PERSONAL, COMMONERS!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Trading in you Corvette for a cheaper car makes sense, but a Suburban? With gas prices as high as they are today (and will likely remain)? Come on. Go for something a little more practical there.

[molson]

No offense, but that's silly. Capitalism is a good concept, but common sense and perspective is even greater.

I read posts about people's lives being "destroyed" by having to move out of houses they couldn't afford in the first place (and presumably, moving to a smaller house or apartment that they can actually afford - that's a real tragedy).

It's just silly to me that there's a specific level where people are "allowed" to complain or be unhappy, based on wealth.

[watravaler]

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Ha! That is great...

[Schmidty]

Oh, one other thing - The whole capitalistic system of "gonna get mine" is backed up whole-heartedly by a lot of my fellow Christians that have been bamboozled by the republican party. It's a shame, because to me, it mocks the very figure it follows - Christ. It's a cliche', but in situations like this, Christians should follow the adage "What would Jesus do", and it's quite obvious that some of the selfishness inherent in capitalism would/does appall Jesus.

Now, I have admit, that I agree with a couple of moral points of the republican party, and conservatives in general, but I'm finding that more and more I'm swinging leftish. I would never identify myself as a party member of any kind, as I find that to be intellectually lazy and rah rah-ish, but I'm a bit more disgusted with the hypocrisy of conservatives that claim that they are Christians, than I am of the pseudo-intellectual elitism of lefties.

[CU Tiger]

Oh, one other thing - The whole capitalistic system of "gonna get mine" is backed up whole-heartedly by a lot of my fellow Christians that have been bamboozled by the republican party. It's a shame, because to me, it mocks the very figure it follows - Christ. It's a cliche', but in situations like this, Christians should follow the adage "What would Jesus do", and it's quite obvious that some of the selfishness inherent in capitalism would/does appall Jesus.

Now, I have admit, that I agree with a couple of moral points of the republican party, and conservatives in general, but I'm finding that more and more I'm swinging leftish. I would never identify myself as a party member of any kind, as I find that to be intellectually lazy and rah rah-ish, but I'm a bit more disgusted with the hypocrisy of conservatives that claim that they are Christians, than I am of the pseudo-intellectual elitism of lefties.

Leets not get too off base here, but there is a big difference between
A) I am so sorry you lost your job, let me give you some assistance until you get back on your feet.
and..
B) hey your neighbor lost is job, we will be taking 33% of your income forever to help pay him and all the ones like him.

Im pretty sure any moral person with the means would support A, few if any like B.

I dont think owning a Corvette by definition makes you rich, my closest neighbor has two (neither are less than 20 years old) but even a new one, hell they will finance them for 10 years if you want now, then its just a $450/month payment. Lets not confuse debt with rich...


But all in all, I say let them eat cake...

[stevew]

Trading in you Corvette for a cheaper car makes sense, but a Suburban? With gas prices as high as they are today (and will likely remain)? Come on. Go for something a little more practical there.

Yeah, I would have thought they would have opted for a camry, or something like that. Then again, a Corvette is as big of a gas hog as a suburban I believe.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Then again, a Corvette is as big of a gas hog as a suburban I believe.

All the more reason to go with something with better gas mileage. The guy had to have some idea how much he was spending on gas.

[RedKingGold]

Yeah, let's poke fun at people who got an education and were successful enough to earn 100k salaries in their jobs.

THAT'LL SHOW EM! BASTARDS!

[Groundhog]

Yeah, let's poke fun at people who got an education and were successful enough to earn 100k salaries in their jobs.

THAT'LL SHOW EM! BASTARDS!

Couldn't have been too successful at their jobs if they are selling their corvette and letting their gardener go, could they?

[Schmidty]

Yeah, let's poke fun at people who got an education and were successful enough to earn 100k salaries in their jobs.

THAT'LL SHOW EM! BASTARDS!

That comment is so ridiculous, I don't even know where to start, so I won't go into detail. I will say this: Education and success are not always a product of intelligence or diligence. In fact, I would say that there is a LARGE percentage of people that are wealthy because of A) a stable childhood, B) a lot of good fortune, and C) cut-throat tactics. Of course, that's only a large percentage, but to say that every one of them is the dishwasher to famous chef situation, is wrong.

[Lathum]

Oh, one other thing - The whole capitalistic system of "gonna get mine" is backed up whole-heartedly by a lot of my fellow Christians that have been bamboozled by the republican party. It's a shame, because to me, it mocks the very figure it follows - Christ. It's a cliche', but in situations like this, Christians should follow the adage "What would Jesus do", and it's quite obvious that some of the selfishness inherent in capitalism would/does appall Jesus.

Now, I have admit, that I agree with a couple of moral points of the republican party, and conservatives in general, but I'm finding that more and more I'm swinging leftish. I would never identify myself as a party member of any kind, as I find that to be intellectually lazy and rah rah-ish, but I'm a bit more disgusted with the hypocrisy of conservatives that claim that they are Christians, than I am of the pseudo-intellectual elitism of lefties.

Jesus would only fire his gardner as a last resort.

[miami_fan]

Yeah, let's poke fun at people who got an education and were successful enough to earn 100k salaries in their jobs.

THAT'LL SHOW EM! BASTARDS!

As opposed to making fun of athletes who were successfull enough to earn their salaries?

Replace "subprime lending executives" with "athlete", the response would be no different.

[Lathum]

That comment is so ridiculous, I don't even know where to start, so I won't go into detail. I will say this: Education and success are not always a product of intelligence or diligence. In fact, I would say that there is a LARGE percentage of people that are wealthy because of A) a stable childhood, B) a lot of good fortune, and C) cut-throat tactics. Of course, that's only a large percentage, but to say that every one of them is the dishwasher to famous chef situation, is wrong.

IMO 100K isn't even close to wealthy.

Most people who earn 100K went to school, found a job with a good stable company, worked hard and earned it.

[Lathum]

in before lock

[RedKingGold]

That comment is so ridiculous, I don't even know where to start, so I won't go into detail. I will say this: Education and success are not always a product of intelligence or diligence. In fact, I would say that there is a LARGE percentage of people that are wealthy because of A) a stable childhood, B) a lot of good fortune, and C) cut-throat tactics. Of course, that's only a large percentage, but to say that every one of them is the dishwasher to famous chef situation, is wrong.

Please, do break it down for me gently. After all, I deserve to fall into a ditch because (1) my parents actually cared enough to provide opportunities to succeed, (2) I didn't die of tragic accident or other illness, (3) I took advantage of said opportunities to make something of myself.

Also, I've found people who make similar arguments that you have made above are uneducated and bitter. You're not any of those, are you?

[SFL Cat]

Oh, one other thing - The whole capitalistic system of "gonna get mine" is backed up whole-heartedly by a lot of my fellow Christians that have been bamboozled by the republican party. It's a shame, because to me, it mocks the very figure it follows - Christ. It's a cliche', but in situations like this, Christians should follow the adage "What would Jesus do", and it's quite obvious that some of the selfishness inherent in capitalism would/does appall Jesus.

I think you make a good point here. Early Christian communities were more like modern-day communes and practised a form of socialism. However, even then there were people who took advantage of others, which prompted the Apostle Paul to write to the Thessalonians, the lazy person who refuses to work does not deserve to eat at the expense of others but should learn to work with his hands to care for his needs. (1Th 4:11; 2Th 3:10, 12).

Of all the modern economic systems, I think capitalism has proven to be the best, especially when the emphasis is on "reaping the rewards of your hard work."

However, like any system, taken to its extreme... i.e. social and economic Darwinism, it can become something very ugly -- think about Charles Dickens' cautionary tale "A Christmas Carol" featuring Ebenezer Scrooge.

[JonInMiddleGA]

IMO 100K isn't even close to wealthy.

$100k ain't even a dent in "wealthy". That amount is more like the money that wealthy people really can't account for from year to year.

[RedKingGold]

IMO 100K isn't even close to wealthy.

Most people who earn 100K went to school, found a job with a good stable company, worked hard and earned it.

Cut-throat bastards.

[Radii]

Does it say how long they were unemployed before having to cash out the old 401k?

Really I thought this thread was just about the entertainment and irony of two people whose entire career was based on taking advantage of people too stupid and shortsighted to understand that they couldn't afford housing... being too stupid and shortsighted to understand they were living paycheck to paycheck. But then the article mentions they "went through their savings" and really seems to fail to make a point at all of any kind so eh.

[Groundhog]

IMO 100K isn't even close to wealthy.

Most people who earn 100K went to school, found a job with a good stable company, worked hard and earned it.

Yeah, definately agree. I know far too many people (my GF being one of them) that earn either 100k or close to it, and I don't consider any of them as "wealthy". "Doing well for themselves" is a better description.

[Lathum]

Does it say how long they were unemployed before having to cash out the old 401k?

Really I thought this thread was just about the entertainment and irony of two people whose entire career was based on taking advantage of people too stupid and shortsighted to understand that they couldn't afford housing... being too stupid and shortsighted to understand they were living paycheck to paycheck. But then the article mentions they "went through their savings" and really seems to fail to make a point at all of any kind so eh.

My opinion of it is that people learn to live a certain way. When they need to scale down that lifestyle they view it as a hardship. Most of us think it is funny that they had to sacrifice their gardener and coevette, luxuries they can obviously do without, but to them it is symbolic that their lives have taken a drastic change for the worse.

Could they move into an apartment and drive an astrovan, of course they could, but that isn't the lifestyle they are accustomed to. So of course that is unthinkable to them.

It's the same concept in divorce settlements with rich people. Why does Michael Strahan have to pay 30,000 a month in alimony ( this is just a random number) when his ex could easily live on 4000-5000 a month easily. Because she has grown accustomed to a lifestyle.

[Groundhog]

Of all the modern economic systems, I think capitalism has proven to be the best, especially when the emphasis is on "reaping the rewards of your hard work."

However, like any system, taken to its extreme... i.e. social and economic Darwinism, it can become something very ugly -- think about Charles Dickens' cautionary tale "A Christmas Carol" featuring Ebenezer Scrooge.

You don't need to even look at a Dickens' tale to see Capitalism at it's extreme - there are plenty of real-world examples. Hell, some examples fill up nearly an entire continent.

But that's probably a human trait more than a trait of capitalism.

My biggest beef with capitalism is that it encourages people to support corporations that are out only to advance themselves at the expense of everyone else, including their own country if that will profit them.

But maybe I give capitalism too much credit for that as well.

[Buccaneer]

Yeah, definately agree. I know far too many people (my GF being one of them) that earn either 100k or close to it, and I don't consider any of them as "wealthy". "Doing well for themselves" is a better description.

Same here. I have worked for a very stable company for almost 20 years with relatively low turnover (and I'm just a little above average as far as longetivity). Just in IT (150 people), the average salary is not too far from that. The thing that doesn't make me "rich" is that we are a single-income family. Most of the "wealthier" people I know or aware of have two good incomes. That is a tradeoff my wife and I have and will refuse to make.

[Lathum]

Same here. I have worked for a very stable company for almost 20 years with relatively low turnover (and I'm just a little above average as far as longetivity). Just in IT (150 people), the average salary is not too far from that. The thing that doesn't make me "rich" is that we are a single-income family. Most of the "wealthier" people I know or aware of have two good incomes. That is a tradeoff my wife and I have and will refuse to make.

lemme ask you a question.

Lets says for whatever reason your wife had to get a part time job, would you view that as a hardship to your life?

[Schmidty]

Please, do break it down for me gently. After all, I deserve to fall into a ditch because (1) my parents actually cared enough to provide opportunities to succeed, (2) I didn't die of tragic accident or other illness, (3) I took advantage of said opportunities to make something of myself.

Also, I've found people who make similar arguments that you have made above are uneducated and bitter. You're not any of those, are you?

I guess you have decided to get personal and be a dick. That's ok, I can deal. Yes, I went to college. 1) No, I was not started out on the right foot in life. It has had an affect on everything I have done in life, for various reasons. I talked about it in my FTB, and I'm not going to talk about it here, especially to a person like you. 2) Fortune and opportunities actually opening up DO have a large effect on a person's direction in life, regardless of what you think/experience on a personal level. 3) What does "making something of one's self" mean? Money? Worldly praise? Cars, houses, etc.? This is just my opinion, but I agree with Buddha, Jesus, and other much, much, much more wise people than you, or even me - Possessions do not equate to success and happiness. The fact that you seem to think so is an indictment on your own shallowness.

As far as how much money I make, and how much my family brings in, that's not your business. We get by comfortably, and have a very happy life. I don't think that my net worth expanding would make me any more fulfilled. An extra boat or driving a Corvette could never make me any happier than a day hiking with my family, or a backyard barbeque with friends, so what does an extra 25k mean? Maybe I'm naive, but I am who I am. I have made sure that my child will go to college, and because of that, I will happily shop at JC Penny. Even if I make more money, my wife will make me donate a substantial portion of it anyway. Anyone who knows her (and there are a few here), know that that's true. I'll take a person like that, over a person who is devastated over losing a sailboat any day.

Anyway, intellectually, I understand what some of you are saying. I just don't agree.

[Buccaneer]

lemme ask you a question.

Lets says for whatever reason your wife had to get a part time job, would you view that as a hardship to your life?

She would. Her schedule today:
7:00 - get Sean ready for school
8:00 - take him to school
9:00- take Josh to college
9:30 - gym
10:30 - washing, dishes, etc.
12:00 - errand to Target
1:30 - pick up Sean (early release)
2:30 - pick up Joshua
3:00 - help with Sean's homework
4:00 - get dinner ready

[SFL Cat]

You don't need to even look at a Dickens' tale to see Capitalism at it's extreme - there are plenty of real-world examples. Hell, some examples fill up nearly an entire continent.

But that's probably a human trait more than a trait of capitalism.

My biggest beef with capitalism is that it encourages people to support corporations that are out only to advance themselves at the expense of everyone else, including their own country if that will profit them.

But maybe I give capitalism too much credit for that as well.

True. Plenty of examples in today's corporate world. However, I also tend to agree that this should be attributed more to the traits of those who head these corporations, specifically greed, than to capitalism itself.

[molson]

Of course, that's only a large percentage, but to say that every one of them is the dishwasher to famous chef situation, is wrong.

Of course, but people's blind resentment of those better off than them implies that they think the opposite - that everyone with money was born with it and thus, doesn't deserve it, and even worse, is somehow evil for having it (and especially complaining about losing any of it).

As far as $100k being wealthy, that depends on a lot of things, but if you broke down responses by the gross income of those giving their opinion, you'd see a ridiculous correlation. And if you could somehow have a worldwide survey of whether $20k/year (in US dollars) is "wealthy" - a great majority of the world's population would say yes. So what I see a lot of in this country is very rich people complaining about very very rich people.

[molson]

True. Plenty of examples in today's corporate world. However, I also tend to agree that this should be attributed more to the traits of those who head these corporations, specifically greed, than to capitalism itself.

I agree - a company is not a person, and does not desire or want anything. Neither does capitalism. Companies are personified to the extreme in these kind of discussions - you'd think they were a living, breathing, conscious ogre-like creature intentionally looking to destroy us all.

[Buccaneer]

That's true. molson. That's why I have advocated personal responsibility in giving and donating. It wouldn't take much to make a difference in the lives of others here and around the world but we are too lazy, selfish and materialistic.

[Lathum]

She would. Her schedule today:
7:00 - get Sean ready for school
8:00 - take him to school
9:00- take Josh to college
9:30 - gym
10:30 - washing, dishes, etc.
12:00 - errand to Target
1:30 - pick up Sean (early release)
2:30 - pick up Joshua
3:00 - help with Sean's homework
4:00 - get dinner ready

that kind of illustrates my point. You have grown accustomed to your lifestyle and schedules. For your wife to have to get a job would drasticly change it, even though there are many people who have a family where both spouses work.

[Buccaneer]

that kind of illustrates my point. You have grown accustomed to your lifestyle and schedules. For your wife to have to get a job would drasticly change it, even though there are many people who have a family where both spouses work.

I think we were talking about "wealthy" household incomes where there are two good wage earners. Nothing wrong with that, was just saying that's how many of those that I know end up more "wealthier" than my family. Yes, she could work outside of the home but absolutely does not want to.

[Subby]

Schmidty is such a fucking communist he doesn't think you should have to wear a suit to a job interview.

[Schmidty]

Schmidty is such a fucking communist he doesn't think you should have to wear a suit to a job interview.

I am starting to wonder if we should even wear clothes.... :)

[SFL Cat]

I am starting to wonder if we should even wear clothes.... :)


That would definitely make an impression....

[Groundhog]

I agree - a company is not a person, and does not desire or want anything. Neither does capitalism. Companies are personified to the extreme in these kind of discussions - you'd think they were a living, breathing, conscious ogre-like creature intentionally looking to destroy us all.

While that's completely true, the people who are in charge at these companies aren't working solely for themselves. They have a legal obligation to do what's best for the shareholders of the company, regardless of what that entails.

Though I can't remember the specifics off the top of my head, the classic case is some car company a good many years ago who released a dodgy car. One of the executives wanted to recall it because it was a dangerous vehicle, but it was decided that the cost of the recall would exceed the cost of the legal damages for anyone injured in accidents. The exec still wanted to push ahead with the recall, but was blocked by the shareholders in court. I may have a few details wrong, but I'm sure others know this case as well.

[thesloppy]

Depending on the industry and company you've chosen there are plenty of well educated, professional, hard-working people who could never dream of making $100K....at least based on my own anecdotal experience. On the other hand, everybody knows some douchebag in some flavor of sales/marketing who's pulling in six figures after 6 months on the job. I have no what my point is.

As far as $100K/year being wealthy...that seems entirely subjective in these times. I could certainly make $100K seem wealthy, but I'm single, relatively healthy and have very little debt to deal with. Give that $100K to a family of 4 with a pair of college loans and a couple car payments and a mortgage somewhere in California and suddenly $100K isn't going to get you through the end of the month. Ummm, once again I seem to have forgotten what my point was.

[Schmidty]

I have a feeling that Farrah is going to take me off of her myspace friends list after this thread. :(

[Lathum]

Depending on the industry and company you've chosen there are plenty of well educated, professional, hard-working people who could never dream of making $100K....at least based on my own anecdotal experience. On the other hand, everybody knows some douchebag in some flavor of sales/marketing who's pulling in six figures after 6 months on the job. I have no what my point is.


why are they a douchebag?

[Groundhog]

Depending on the industry and company you've chosen there are plenty of well educated, professional, hard-working people who could never dream of making $100K....at least based on my own anecdotal experience. On the other hand, everybody knows some douchebag in some flavor of sales/marketing who's pulling in six figures after 6 months on the job. I have no what my point is.

As far as $100K/year being wealthy...that seems entirely subjective in these times. I could certainly make $100K seem wealthy, but I'm single, relatively healthy and have very little debt to deal with. Give that $100K to a family of 4 with a pair of college loans and a couple car payments and a mortgage somewhere in California and suddenly $100K isn't going to get you through the end of the month. Ummm, once again I seem to have forgotten what my point was.

The average wage in Australia for males is $62k a year (I think for females it's closer to $50k-55k). I'm always surprised to hear that, because I'm 26 and everyone I know who is around my age and has been working for a few years is either above or very close to that figure.

But if that is indeed the average, I guess a case could be made that $100k is "wealthy", because it's approching twice the average wage. But when I think "wealthy", I think big house, nice car, etc. My combined income with my GF is well above $100k, and we don't have any of those things. We are quite comfortable and saving a combined $2k-$3k a month for a deposit on an apartment, but I really don't think we are living the good life, and I've certainly sacrificed a lot of the expenses I used to blow on partying and the like.

[Cringer]

This thread surprised me some. I thought this was going to be a bitch session about the Countrywide execs who are getting $10 million 'bonuses' from Bank of America (who is buying Countrywide), with one of them getting another $25 million to stay working for Bank of America after the buyout is complete.

People are trying to hold onto their dream home, big deal. Me having to sell my home and car and moving into something smaller would suck, and my house and car are probably 1/10 the value of theirs.

[Lathum]

People are trying to hold onto their dream home, big deal. Me having to sell my home and car and moving into something smaller would suck, and my house and car are probably 1/10 the value of theirs.

that about sums it up

[Raiders Army]

Depending on the industry and company you've chosen there are plenty of well educated, professional, hard-working people who could never dream of making $100K....at least based on my own anecdotal experience. On the other hand, everybody knows some douchebag in some flavor of sales/marketing who's pulling in six figures after 6 months on the job. I have no what my point is.

As far as $100K/year being wealthy...that seems entirely subjective in these times. I could certainly make $100K seem wealthy, but I'm single, relatively healthy and have very little debt to deal with. Give that $100K to a family of 4 with a pair of college loans and a couple car payments and a mortgage somewhere in California and suddenly $100K isn't going to get you through the end of the month. Ummm, once again I seem to have forgotten what my point was.

I'm looking for a new job and I'm looking at ~$80-90K per year. Even at $90K per year, I'm going to take a cut in lifestyle somewhat. Right now I have offers from anywhere from $75-95K, but there's a lot of factors that go into the decision of what job to take. Perks, 401K, medical, life insurance, upward mobility, etc. all factor in.

http://www.theladders.com/ is a great website and very interesting.

[Lathum]

I'm looking for a new job and I'm looking at ~$80-90K per year. Even at $90K per year, I'm going to take a cut in lifestyle somewhat. Right now I have offers from anywhere from $75-95K, but there's a lot of factors that go into the decision of what job to take. Perks, 401K, medical, life insurance, upward mobility, etc. all factor in.

http://www.theladders.com/ is a great website and very interesting.

are you leaving the service? Or already out?

[Schmidty]

People are trying to hold onto their dream home, big deal. Me having to sell my home and car and moving into something smaller would suck, and my house and car are probably 1/10 the value of theirs.

The way you put it there, I can pretty much understand. I just tend to inject broad-scale ethics into everything automatically. I don't apologize for that, but I do see what you're saying.

[Raiders Army]

are you leaving the service? Or already out?

Leave on June 30th, but can start working anytime after 20 April. Man, it's incredible what's out there. I "interviewed" with a company last week in Oklahoma City and it's crazy what people can get away with. The Western Hemisphere VP told me that one of his sons (who worked for the company) put four lap dances on his voucher and the company paid it at $40 a lap dance.

He told me that he would give me a brand-new Dodge 4x4 Hemi with company credit card for gas. I joked with him that I wouldn't abuse it by loading up the family and using the card for gas on a vacation and he told me it was okay. He just didn't want me to let my son use it to drive to high school. That's insane.

[Lathum]

Leave on June 30th, but can start working anytime after 20 April. Man, it's incredible what's out there. I "interviewed" with a company last week in Oklahoma City and it's crazy what people can get away with. The Western Hemisphere VP told me that one of his sons (who worked for the company) put four lap dances on his voucher and the company paid it at $40 a lap dance.

He told me that he would give me a brand-new Dodge 4x4 Hemi with company credit card for gas. I joked with him that I wouldn't abuse it by loading up the family and using the card for gas on a vacation and he told me it was okay. He just didn't want me to let my son use it to drive to high school. That's insane.

thats the way it is. When my wife had a company car we used it everywhere we went. She will get one again in about 4 months and I fully plan on taking advantage givin the current gas prices.

I would think the company just bills the client for the lap dances, etc... so why do they care.

[Groundhog]

My mate has a company car. He loves it whenever fuel prices go up, because it's like he just got a raise.

[Cringer]

The way you put it there, I can pretty much understand. I just tend to inject broad-scale ethics into everything automatically. I don't apologize for that, but I do see what you're saying.

Well, I do think the guy is an idiot for 'downsizing' from a 'vette to a Suburban, and paying California gas prices at that. To keep my house I have no problem going from our 300 to a used diesel Volvo that has been converted to run on vegetable oil.

[Raiders Army]

Okay. That makes me feel better. In the military, you're under the Joint Federal Travel Regulation and it's illegal to have your government vehicle stop at the barber shop for a haircut on the way back to your office even if it's on the way. The restrictions are well...restrictive...to prevent a perception of abusing a privilege. I won't go into any other details other than the VP "saved" the company money by negotiating a $500 trick at the Bunny Ranch to $250.

[Cringer]

Okay. That makes me feel better. In the military, you're under the Joint Federal Travel Regulation and it's illegal to have your government vehicle stop at the barber shop for a haircut on the way back to your office even if it's on the way. The restrictions are well...restrictive...to prevent a perception of abusing a privilege. I won't go into any other details other than the VP "saved" the company money by negotiating a $500 trick at the Bunny Ranch to $250.

Crap, sounds like a decent guy to work for but how long will he be the boss with him running his mouth so freely to someone who isn't even an employee yet? :D

[Lathum]

Okay. That makes me feel better. In the military, you're under the Joint Federal Travel Regulation and it's illegal to have your government vehicle stop at the barber shop for a haircut on the way back to your office even if it's on the way. The restrictions are well...restrictive...to prevent a perception of abusing a privilege. I won't go into any other details other than the VP "saved" the company money by negotiating a $500 trick at the Bunny Ranch to $250.

this company sounds a little extreme with it. Basicly the way my wifes car works is she has a special card and when she gets gas she has to punch in a code and the mileadgem that way they know she isn't gassing up out other cars.

[thesloppy]

why are they a douchebag?

Because they're imaginary, and serving as a contrast to an earlier observation in the paragraph. It would make a shitty contrast to say "there are plenty of well educated, professional, hard-working people who could never dream of making $100K and there are plenty of well educated, professional, hard-working people who who could dream of making $100K." While it's pretty much equally true, it makes for a crappy contrast, yes? I didn't mean to imply that working in sales, or making a six figure income makes you a douchebag, but sales is typically in industry that is accepted as paying well and serves as an effective example.

Did that really require an explanation?

[larrymcg421]

It's weird to see the differences in salaries and the different attitudes about them. I've made in the high 30's the last three years and will most likely cross into the 40's next year and I live pretty comfortably in a nice section of downtown Atlanta.

[Lathum]

Because they're imaginary, and serving as a contrast to an earlier observation in the paragraph. It would make a shitty contrast to say "there are plenty of well educated, professional, hard-working people who could never dream of making $100K and there are plenty of well educated, professional, hard-working people who who could dream of making $100K." While it's pretty much equally true, it makes for a crappy contrast, yes? I didn't mean to imply that working in sales, or making a six figure income makes you a douchebag, but sales is typically in industry that is accepted as paying well and serves as an effective example.

Did that really require an explanation?

your explination needs an explination.

[stevew]

Around here, if you made 100k you could live like a king. If you lived in NYC, you'd struggle to afford cab fare.

Personally I can't imagine having 12k worth of bills per month. One downturn in your job, and you're fucked.

[sterlingice]

(I'm sure this will just be salt in the wounds, Schmidty, but I actually agree with most everything you've said in this thread)

SI

[thesloppy]

I'm looking for a new job and I'm looking at ~$80-90K per year. Even at $90K per year, I'm going to take a cut in lifestyle somewhat. Right now I have offers from anywhere from $75-95K, but there's a lot of factors that go into the decision of what job to take. Perks, 401K, medical, life insurance, upward mobility, etc. all factor in.

http://www.theladders.com/ is a great website and very interesting.

Are you living in Cali? Cost of living and location can obviously have a huge impact on how one defines wealth.

I spent a few years, during the 'boom', outside of San Francisco, as a (relatively inexperienced) IT contractor and I was scraping six figures at $50/hour...but I was paying $1500 for a studio apartment a jillion dollars for car insurance, and the minute I moved back to Oregon that kind of wage was and has remained pretty much impossible (admittedly, for someone of my experience).

Up here in the Pac NW, my info is still strictly anecdotal, but I know a few people in upper management up to director level, in different industries, and they're making well short of six-figures. Conversely, there is certainly plenty of money to be made around here, if you're in the right areas around here, and somebody must be making it, since the real estate values have remained ridiculous.

Again...I'm not sure what my point is, but I think $100K remains a pretty good standard of 'wealthy' in most of this country, even within professional circles. This board has a pretty good representation of IT pros, doctors and lawyers, and I wonder if that may be skewing things a bit. Then again, I might just be bitter because I left IT behind and am midway into the 20 years it's going to take me to get an Architecture degree, at which point I'll have to KILL somebody to make $100K (but I'll get to play with popsicle sticks).

[CU Tiger]

$100k ain't even a dent in "wealthy". That amount is more like the money that wealthy people really can't account for from year to year.
+1

I remember making 28k COMBINED our first year married and my dad and step mom complaining because they had made 100k combined and taxes etc. If I DONT make 100k this year I will be very disappointed and my wife stays home full time. Its been a LOOOOOONG 8 years

[JonInMiddleGA]

your explination needs an explination.

+1

[thesloppy]

your explination needs an explination.

I was saying douchebags can make $100K, too. Sometimes it's not about hard work and applying yourself, it's just about some variety of being in the right place in the right time. I was NOT saying you ARE a douchebag if you make $100K.

I know it's not exactly the most profound of statements, but I wasn't exactly planning on defending it all day when I crapped it out.

[RedKingGold]

I guess you have decided to get personal and be a dick. That's ok, I can deal. Yes, I went to college. 1) No, I was not started out on the right foot in life. It has had an affect on everything I have done in life, for various reasons. I talked about it in my FTB, and I'm not going to talk about it here, especially to a person like you. 2) Fortune and opportunities actually opening up DO have a large effect on a person's direction in life, regardless of what you think/experience on a personal level. 3) What does "making something of one's self" mean? Money? Worldly praise? Cars, houses, etc.? This is just my opinion, but I agree with Buddha, Jesus, and other much, much, much more wise people than you, or even me - Possessions do not equate to success and happiness. The fact that you seem to think so is an indictment on your own shallowness.

As far as how much money I make, and how much my family brings in, that's not your business. We get by comfortably, and have a very happy life. I don't think that my net worth expanding would make me any more fulfilled. An extra boat or driving a Corvette could never make me any happier than a day hiking with my family, or a backyard barbeque with friends, so what does an extra 25k mean? Maybe I'm naive, but I am who I am. I have made sure that my child will go to college, and because of that, I will happily shop at JC Penny. Even if I make more money, my wife will make me donate a substantial portion of it anyway. Anyone who knows her (and there are a few here), know that that's true. I'll take a person like that, over a person who is devastated over losing a sailboat any day.

Anyway, intellectually, I understand what some of you are saying. I just don't agree.

I'm a material girl living in a material world.

Deal with it.

[Lathum]

I was saying douchebags can make $100K, too. Sometimes it's not about hard work and applying yourself, it's just about some variety of being in the right place in the right time. I was NOT saying you ARE a douchebag if you make $100K.

I know it's not exactly the most profound of statements, but I wasn't exactly planning on defending it all day when I crapped it out.

no worries

[JonInMiddleGA]

Up here in the Pac NW, my info is still strictly anecdotal, but I know a few people in upper management up to director level, in different industries, and they're making well short of six-figures. ... an Architecture degree, at which point I'll have to KILL somebody to make $100K (but I'll get to play with popsicle sticks).

Based on those two statements, I think you need to look into moving. Quickly.

Good Lord, there's shitty "design consultants" here making $200k easy (and by "here" I mean Athens, an hour outside Atlanta), and that's without working as a practicing architect, just consulting with contractors on architectural details & such.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I was saying douchebags can make $100K, too. Sometimes it's not about hard work and applying yourself, it's just about some variety of being in the right place in the right time. I was NOT saying you ARE a douchebag if you make $100K.

FWIW, at least now I understand what you were trying to say.
But it seriously didn't come out that way the first time (or the second).

[thesloppy]

+1

Let me ammend my statement:

Depending on the industry and company you've chosen there are plenty of well educated, professional, hard-working people who could never dream of making $100K....at least based on my own anecdotal experience. Conversely, everybody knows some uneducated, unprofessional, lazy fellow who has managed a six figure income one way or another.


Yes?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yes?

Look at the post I made apparently while you were typing this one ;)

[thesloppy]

Based on those two statements, I think you need to look into moving. Quickly.

Good Lord, there's shitty "design consultants" here making $200k easy (and by "here" I mean Athens, an hour outside Atlanta), and that's without working as a practicing architect, just consulting with contractors on architectural details & such.

I tried moving for money, but it didn't work for me and I moved back to Oregon, so I really can't complain about it too much (but I do!). Those of y'all who are blessed enough to live in a place you love, with a healthy economy, should really count yourself lucky.

I AM surprised to hear that there are designers making that kind of coin in Atlanta...but it's definitely nice to hear!

[Raiders Army]

Are you living in Cali? Cost of living and location can obviously have a huge impact on how one defines wealth.

Nope. I'm in El Paso, Texas, where the cost of living is still reasonably low. I agree that the cost of living (and location, which is in my mind the same thing) can define what is wealth...however, I'd agree that $100K a year is not wealthy. $100K a year will get you a nice house and nice standard of living in average areas.

Wealthy in my mind is someone who has more cars than they have licensed drivers, or someone who has a maid (live-in or someone who comes more than once a month), or someone who has no bills and is able to retire at age 50 (not that they would, but that they would be able to retire).

[JonInMiddleGA]

or someone who has a maid (live-in or someone who comes more than once a month),

Eh, that more than once a month isn't that hard to pull off in some areas.
We had that for a while, $50 a week for six hours a week.

Considering the cost of dining out these days, that's really not much.
Just wish I could find help that cheaply now :(

[thesloppy]

Ooh, neat-o...I was dorking around and stumbled across the 'State Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates' (catchy title). This one's for Oregon:

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_or.htm#b00-0000

(You can change the or in oes_or.htm# to another state for quicker navigation)


...Urrrp...after looking at that, maybe I'll just close it up again. Ewww. Fucking jackass Oregon economy.

[Vegas Vic]

When I read the guys' comment about the gardener, it reminded me of this hilarious clip from "The Onion":

“Unless you’ve gone through it yourself, you have no idea what it’s like to live year round in your summer home.”

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[Galaxy]

I am starting to wonder if we should even wear clothes.... :)

If you got a hot gal as an assistant, I make it a "no clothes" policy.

[sachmo71]

Jesus would only fire his gardner as a last resort.

I thought Jesus was a gardener?

[Subby]

I thought Jesus was a gardener?
Baker.

[JediKooter]

I tried moving for money, but it didn't work for me and I moved back to Oregon, so I really can't complain about it too much (but I do!). Those of y'all who are blessed enough to live in a place you love, with a healthy economy, should really count yourself lucky.

I AM surprised to hear that there are designers making that kind of coin in Atlanta...but it's definitely nice to hear!

Their names are:

Julia Sugarbaker, Mary Jo Shively, Charlene Stillfield and Suzanne Sugarbaker. They seem to be doing pretty good out there in Atlanta, they even have their own TV show.

[Subby]

Schmidty is going to let you know if your next job is morally okay or not, so just make sure you PM him before you accept it.

[Passacaglia]

Ooh, neat-o...I was dorking around and stumbled across the 'State Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates' (catchy title). This one's for Oregon:

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_or.htm#b00-0000

(You can change the or in oes_or.htm# to another state for quicker navigation)


...Urrrp...after looking at that, maybe I'll just close it up again. Ewww. Fucking jackass Oregon economy.

Can't be that bad. The average annual mean for my profession is higher in Oregon than in my state (Illinois).

[RedKingGold]

Schmidty is going to let you know if your next job is morally okay or not, so just make sure you PM him before you accept it.

Good. At least I know the proper authority now.

[MikeVic]

The average wage in Australia for males is $62k a year (I think for females it's closer to $50k-55k). I'm always surprised to hear that, because I'm 26 and everyone I know who is around my age and has been working for a few years is either above or very close to that figure.

But if that is indeed the average, I guess a case could be made that $100k is "wealthy", because it's approching twice the average wage. But when I think "wealthy", I think big house, nice car, etc. My combined income with my GF is well above $100k, and we don't have any of those things. We are quite comfortable and saving a combined $2k-$3k a month for a deposit on an apartment, but I really don't think we are living the good life, and I've certainly sacrificed a lot of the expenses I used to blow on partying and the like.

$62k a year on average!! I want to work in Australia.