The Running Thread

[path12]

Which is the follow-up to the training shoes thread. I've now been running (well, plodding is a better term) for about two weeks. Currently I'm jogging 60 seconds and walking 90 seconds for 20-25 minutes -- this is part of a 9 week program to get one from the couch to a 5K.

I had to cut my workout short last night for the first time because of sudden soreness in both my knees as I jogged. I did ice them when I got home and did the Ben-Gay thing before bed, but they are still pretty sore this morning.

Advice? I know I've had sore muscles and have been able to stretch them out during the workout and they end up fine, but joint pain seems like a different animal.

[Subby]

Try taking three ibuprofen about 30 minutes before you run. Ice your knees afterwards. I would lay off the Ben-Gay, to be honest.

If the pain persists for more than a week, take some time off or cut back a bit on your program.

[Dr. Sak]

Stretch before and after you workout. Most people don't do the after part. I second Subby's advice on giving up on the Ben-Gay. IMO it doesn't work.

Make sure you give yourself a day off here and there too. Your muscles need to rest and repair.

[st.cronin]

Locomote on sand, or soft turf.

[Raiders Army]

Stretch before and after you workout. Most people don't do the after part. I second Subby's advice on giving up on the Ben-Gay. IMO it doesn't work.

Make sure you give yourself a day off here and there too. Your muscles need to rest and repair.

I'd agree with this completely. Also, I would think that you would job longer than 60 seconds at a time if you're on week 2 of a 9 week program to run a 5K. I'd say you should be able to run a mile without stopping at this point.

I'd also do distance interval training as well as time interval training. Run for 400m and walk for 600m. This changes it up a little more.

[Flasch186]

the ben gay may work well though to decongest.

[Fidatelo]

This is neat, I am in week 2 of a 10 week program through my local Running Room store called Learn To Run. The first two weeks are "one-and-ones" which is one minute running, one minute walking, also for 20-25 minutes. Next week begins "two-and-ones" which increases to 2 minutes running for one of walking. The goal at the end of the 10 weeks is also 5k.

Our instructor has said that, at least for now, we should never run 2 days in a row. We run mondays, wednesdays, and one other day of our choice (friday or saturday based on the rules). You might want to follow that rule as well to ease the pain on your joints and risk of injury?

So far for me it has been a lot of fun, although I got kicked up to a modified program because I ran too fast on the first day. They've booted me and another guy right up to 4-and-1's, which is ok with me. What I'm really looking to get out of this is some basic tips (I've never ran in and of itself before), some idea of pacing, and a bit of structure. My goal is to run a leg of the Manitoba Marathon Relay in June.

[sabotai]

Which is the follow-up to the training shoes thread. I've now been running (well, plodding is a better term) for about two weeks. Currently I'm jogging 60 seconds and walking 90 seconds for 20-25 minutes -- this is part of a 9 week program to get one from the couch to a 5K.

This one? : http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml

[path12]

This one? : http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml

That's the one. I misspoke earlier, I'm on the 90 second jog/2 min walk part now. I have been spacing out the workouts and stretching before and after, but I think I need to maybe focus on that a bit more.

RA, I appreciate the thought I could run a mile straight, but I think I'd collapse after about half right now. :) This workout is just hard enough for me to really feel it but not so bad that I'm in agony and want to quit. My goal is to run either a 5 or 10K by the end of summer and a half-marathon the following summer.

So Ben-Gay isn't a good thing? Should I be avoiding heat at all and focus on icing or is there something else that might help? I'm really stupid about stuff like this.

[sabotai]

That's the one. I misspoke earlier, I'm on the 90 second jog/2 min walk part now. I have been spacing out the workouts and stretching before and after, but I think I need to maybe focus on that a bit more.

I was thinking of going through that once I lost some weight. Let us know how it went for you when you've completed it.

[Alan T]

I would echo what others have said about using ibuprofen and icing down your knees if you are feeling pain there. If the pain becomes unbearable, you might want to talk about it with a doctor for a recommendation.

I know because of age, the doctor has told me now to stop running, especially on pavement, but each person is different. As long as the pain isn't unbearable, the ibuprofen will help. I personally had to go to eliptical and biking for exercise now. Evidentally the pounding on the knees wore me out.

[primelord]

Stretch before and after you workout. Most people don't do the after part.

There are arguments on both sides of the fence on stretching before running. I don't know that anyone knows for certain if it is better to stretch or not before hand. I will say I am personally in the camp that says you should not stretch before you run. Just from my own experience I believe stretching cold muscles before athletics leads to injuries.

Before hand you should be absolutely warming up, but I don't think you should be stretching. Stretching afterwards is a good idea though. Just my .02.

[Kodos]

I will back up the guys saying to stay off of pavement or sidewalks. Those surfaces beat the crap out of your legs. Try to find a dirt trail or a track at a local school to run on. And make sure your shoes have plenty of support.

[path12]

I'm avoiding pavement for sure. There is a cushioned track at the local high school I can use when there isn't any events going on, and a regular cinder track at another nearby school that I use otherwise.......though that is grass on both sides so that's definitely worth a try, since I can definitely feel a difference on the cushioned track.

Age is probably a factor also as well as weight, I'm hoping that as the weight drops that will help also. I find this much easier routine-wise than trying to get to a gym, since I have to exercise the dog anyways.

[path12]

Dola, what about knee support wraps? Do those work?

[Alan T]

Dola, what about knee support wraps? Do those work?

I actually asked about those, and the doctor said that for my issue they wouldn't matter because for me it is the patella scraping against the femur causing my pain. He mentioned there are people whom have had ligament issues or other knee issues where they might be more useful, but for me they wouldn't help.

Being a non-doctor and not knowing exactly what is causing your pain, its tough to say! I know some guys I go mountain biking with swear by those when running though.

[Fidatelo]

I'll chime in on the stretching thoughts:

The instructor at the Running Room says no stretching before hand, lots of stretching after.

In most other sports I've been in, you are supposed to do a quick warm-up exercise (usually 5 minutes of light jogging or something), then some minor stretching (like 5 minutes). Then after whatever activity you do the full stretching routine.

[jeheinz72]

Awesome to hear Path!

I used that same program (not sure if you got it from the link I put in the other thread) and it really does work. I was the same way at first, huffing and puffing my way through the first few weeks of "light" workouts. I found though, that eventually, it got easy in a hurry, to the point where yesterday I ran 3.17 miles straight, 2 weeks quicker than the program lines out.

So keep it up man.

[JetsIn06]

Congrats to everyone who's started to run. It's definitely a good workout, and I find it relaxing and fun.

I started jogging regularly in December, took way too long of a break in March, and just started up again about a week ago. Besides my three-week break from it, I ran a mile 5 days a week.

In my experiences, running is a fantastic way to build up your endurance, and I've found that after about three jogging sessions where I made it about a half-mile before starting to get real winded, I could easily run a mile. About four mile-long sessions I could run two miles.

I've never noticed too much pain after running consecutive days, but I'm a youngin' :D In ten years I'm sure I won't be able to do it.

[chesapeake]

In most other sports I've been in, you are supposed to do a quick warm-up exercise (usually 5 minutes of light jogging or something), then some minor stretching (like 5 minutes). Then after whatever activity you do the full stretching routine.

This is how I prepare for my runs -- especially now that I am pushing 40. My muscles need a little warm-up and preparation before I ask them to do any serious work. 4-5 minutes of walking before stretching works for me as well.

As to your knees, are your shoes any good? My wife had some knee troubles before going to a local store that specializes in running shoes. They helped her select a pair that have helped her enormously.

[Fidatelo]

Yes, shoe selection seems to be important. That was the lesson our instructor taught on monday, how to select a proper running shoe (and it is different depending on how your feet contact the ground). It couldn't hurt to go to a running store (not a sporting goods chain but a proper running store) and see if they can sort out something specific to your body.

[path12]

This is how I prepare for my runs -- especially now that I am pushing 40. My muscles need a little warm-up and preparation before I ask them to do any serious work. 4-5 minutes of walking before stretching works for me as well.

As to your knees, are your shoes any good? My wife had some knee troubles before going to a local store that specializes in running shoes. They helped her select a pair that have helped her enormously.

Yeah, I had a thread earlier asking for shoe advice, ended up going to the local runner's store and got a nice pair with good support. I was worried going in that my feet would end up hurting (had some plantar facitis or however you spell it a couple years back) but they've been just fine so far. I've been doing a nice 4-5 minute walk beforehand and some stretching, but thanks to this thread will be doing much more stretching afterwards than before (it's been around 50/50). I expected muscle soreness given that I'm gonna be 46 in a couple weeks and not the most active guy in the world but the knee has been a surprise.

[Cringer]

Here is a tip: Don't decide one day to do a ton of squats and jump rope instead of your normal running for the day. I am now on day two of extreme soreness in my legs. I got carried away......doh.

[Fidatelo]

Hahaha! Here's another killer one: not sure of the name, but where you stand straight, then just lift yourself up on your toes and back down. Repeat. It seems like you can do it forever... until the next day when you can barely walk :)

[terpkristin]

I personally don't mind Ben-Gay (actually I use Tiger Balm), but even if it's just the placebo effect working for me, I'm down with it. ;) Doesn't make things go away all together, but for me seems to provide short-term relief....

The knee straps (called cho-pat straps) can help, they're cheap enough that if you want to give them a go, especially if your pain is right below your knee, it might be worth it (and it's less painful to remove than tape).

As others have said, try running on grass or trail running. It's gentler on the knees and trail running provides pretty scenery. :) And, to echo others, don't forget to take days off. They're the way your let your body heal.

When I was starting out running long distances, in working up to 3 miles at a time, I used the plan on Runner's World (found on page 5 of this article (http://runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-380-381-386-678-0,00.html)), but I've recommended both the RW plan and the plan from Cool Runnings to friends who've used both successfully, including a friend of mine who is right now working up to being an Ironman triathlete.

Another thought occurs to me, that you may be trying to run too quickly. Typically, when people try to run too fast, they run "harder" (harder footstrikes), so you may try slowing down. If the pain continues, especially after icing and Advil ("vitamin I"), maybe talk to your doc, but this could also be a "growing pain" that just means your body is adjusting. I guess don't pull a "tk" and overdo it but don't freak out just yet...

It could also be that the shoes you bought just aren't working out for you, you might go back to the running store and ask them to look at you run. Or, orthotics may help...

Gosh, this thread really makes me miss running...
/tk

[SackAttack]

used to run 5 miles/day in high school. Had surgery, went off to college, got fat, and basically hadn't run since.

Started working out when my brother decided to join the Marines, went from 245 to around 220, and suddenly I can run 3 miles without walking again, with no interim running training in those 9 years.

It's actually kind of cool.

(please don't hate me)

[BishopMVP]

There are arguments on both sides of the fence on stretching before running. I don't know that anyone knows for certain if it is better to stretch or not before hand. I will say I am personally in the camp that says you should not stretch before you run. Just from my own experience I believe stretching cold muscles before athletics leads to injuries.

Before hand you should be absolutely warming up, but I don't think you should be stretching. Stretching afterwards is a good idea though. Just my .02.I agree with what Fidatelo and others are saying... I always do a warm-up and some stretching beforehand and a solid 20min of stretching afterward... but if you're still only doing 1-2 miles total at this point, I'm not sure how you do a decent warm-up that isn't half your routine. As for stretching completely cold, it's not really a problem unless you're trying too hard - make sure you're not pulling or over-exerting it. Keep everything smooth and relaxed. Concentrate on each muscle slowly doing what it should rather than just reaching as far as you can and putting different amounts of stress on different muscles.
Here is a tip: Don't decide one day to do a ton of squats and jump rope instead of your normal running for the day. I am now on day two of extreme soreness in my legs. I got carried away......doh.Well yeah, lifting legs (squats/leg presses/lunges/step-ups) for the first time in any more than 2 weeks is going to kill for the next 2-3 days minimum. I love convincing kids I know who do the meathead chest+arms routine at the gym to lift legs with me and then see them walking the next day. Just make sure even if you can't run like you should next day scheduled, do some walking or biking. They'll hurt less than if you sat on your ass in a chair because you get some blood flowing and endorphins going - plus I think it tricks the brain a little into thinking they should be feeling something, which takes the edge off. (Then again, my tactics have included running to cure sickness, running until I threw up to cure hangovers and if stretching doesn't help something, hitting it so it becomes a little numb, so maybe I'm not the best person for advice.)

[Cringer]

Well yeah, lifting legs (squats/leg presses/lunges/step-ups) for the first time in any more than 2 weeks is going to kill for the next 2-3 days minimum. I love convincing kids I know who do the meathead chest+arms routine at the gym to lift legs with me and then see them walking the next day. Just make sure even if you can't run like you should next day scheduled, do some walking or biking. They'll hurt less than if you sat on your ass in a chair because you get some blood flowing and endorphins going - plus I think it tricks the brain a little into thinking they should be feeling something, which takes the edge off. (Then again, my tactics have included running to cure sickness, running until I threw up to cure hangovers and if stretching doesn't help something, hitting it so it becomes a little numb, so maybe I'm not the best person for advice.)

I have always liked to jump back into things even if I have muscle soreness from a layoff/something new, but with getting slammed for work I haven't been doing much but sitting in the car or sitting here doing BPO reports. I was sitting in a car for about an hour earlier (yesterday now) and then had to go into a house and walk up and down stairs checking it out. It just about killed me. :D Hopefully I will be able to do something tomorrow because I need to work this out real well.

[BishopMVP]

I was sitting in a car for about an hour earlier (yesterday now) and then had to go into a house and walk up and down stairs checking it out. It just about killed me. :DYup, sitting in a car for a hour+ then having to go up and down stairs. That's just about the perfect way to make sore legs feel even worse :p