WSOP Pool - Main Event

[larrymcg421]

Here are the standings going into the Main Event...


MollyMurphy 5060.34
Maple Leafs 3660.739
Quiksand 3638.174
larrymcg421 3505.639
Ryche 3439.823
rockboy70 3390.612
CleBrownsFan 2729.241
st. cronin 2704.332
timmynausea 2278.241
jbergey22 2275.433
Lathum 2205.946
hoopsguy 1348.518
digamma 840.108


And here are the rosters of each team. I'll keep updating this post to eliminate people that are eliminated from the Main Event, so everyone will see who they have left.


MollyMurphy

Phil Hellmuth
Mike Matasow

Maple Leafs

Phil Hellmuth - $

QuikSand

Phil Hellmuth

larrymcg421

Phil Hellmuth
Mike Matusow

Ryche

None

rockboy70

Phil Hellmuth

CleBrownsfan

Phil Hellmuth

st.cronin

Phil Hellmuth $$ ME
Mike Matusow

timmynausea

None

Mike Matusow

jbergey22

Phil Hellmuth

Lathum

Phil Hellmuth

hoopsguy

Phil Hellmuth - ME

digamma

Nonw

And here are the chip counts of the remaining players...

Phil Hellmuth - 1,022,000
http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/updates/downarrow.gif Mike Matusow - 700,000 http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/updates/uparrow.gif

[larrymcg421]

Hellmuth is the only ME winner pick that is left.

Phil Hellmuth (hoopsguy, st. cronin)

[Barkeep49]

I'm disappointed that Hoops didn't pick Alan Cunningham.

[hoopsguy]

He's on my roster and I would be willing to switch if it would make things more interesting (since Cronin has Hellmuth as well).

[larrymcg421]

Updated to reflect Gavin Smith being eliminated.

[larrymcg421]

He's on my roster and I would be willing to switch if it would make things more interesting (since Cronin has Hellmuth as well).

I'm not sure it would be right to allow a switch at this point, since the ME has already started.

[hoopsguy]

Yeah, I know. I don't think either of them have played yet, but I agree it probably isn't kosher. Was just throwing it out there for the reasons listed above ... Cronin has Hellmuth, and it would make it more interesting potentially for us to have different win conditions.

I'll stop causing problems now.

[larrymcg421]

Confirmed out today:

David Chiu
Mimi Tran
Gavin Griffin

Chris Moneymaker is among the leaders with 70,000+

[larrymcg421]

Quads Might Not be Good?


Board: http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/7s.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/7h.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Ah.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Ac.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/4s.gif Tom Peterson bet 1,000 on the flop and Steve Diano called. On the turn, Tom fired 3,000 into the pot and Steve called. On the river, Tom fired another 3,000 into the pot and was raised this time by Diano. Tom called the raise and Steve showed A-10. Tom turned over pocket sevens for quads and took the pot down. Many were surprised that there wasn't a reraise, but Steve was certainly thankful.

If he's worried about Quad Aces here, then he needs to play another game.

[kcchief19]

We'll we have seen quad aces busted in this tournament. :)

[Maple Leafs]

We'll we have seen quad aces busted in this tournament. :)
Has that guy killed himself yet?

[kcchief19]

If not, I assume that everyone who has played with him since is ready to do the job, since I'm sure there is no one in Vegas he hasn't told his bad beat story to.

[larrymcg421]

More insanity



Willing to Fold A-A Preflop
Rick Fuller opened the pot for 800, a late position player reraised to 2,800 and Fuller moved all in for 12,000. The LP player paused and took her earphones off as she asked the dealer to count down Fuller's stack. About a minute later, she called and rolled over http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Ax.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Ax.gif. "What took you so long?" asked Fuller as he turned over http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Kx.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Kx.gif. "If you had me covered, I would have folded" she replied. The aces held and Fuller was eliminated.

[kcchief19]

Well, not exactly that case, but we've covered folding pocket aces pre-flop. I wish jb had been around to offer some insight into this discussion.

http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=19340

[larrymcg421]

I think there are situations to fold Aces preflop - (example: satellite structure when you can easily fold into the prize). This certainly wasn't one of them. Her chip stack was already low (if it was close to the other guy), so I don't know how she's ever going to build her chips back up if she's not willing to go all-in against people that have her covered.

[larrymcg421]

Lots of pros looking good so far today:

Victor Ramdin - 107000
David Oppenheim - 101300
Antonio Esfandiari - 80000
Carlos Mortenson - 72000
Gus Hansen - 56000
Johnny Chan - 49500
Chip Jett - 48000
Steve Dannenman - 47000
Allen Cunningham - 42000

Confirmed out:

Phil Ivey
Jennifer Tilly
Andy Bloch
Jose Canseco
Annie Duke
David Williams

[larrymcg421]

Doyle Brunson is out.

[Maple Leafs]

Well, not exactly that case, but we've covered folding pocket aces pre-flop. I wish jb had been around to offer some insight into this discussion.

http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=19340
Wow. Quik, do you still stand by your conclusion in that thread?

[QuikSand]

Wow. Quik, do you still stand by your conclusion in that thread?

No, that dude is an idiot.




More seriously...I don't think that I do now. It's hard for me to recall exactly how bad the play was in the game I was describing (I know it was pretty weak, but in retrospect, so was my own game) -- but I think it takes a *very* favorable long term situation to get me to fold that hand preflop. Most likely, I was overestimating my own ability to weave through a twenty-something person field based on some short term results (I think I had won that tournament something like five times in ten or twelve offerings, so I was feeling a bit big for my britches at that point).

The player I am today gets his chips in there for sure.

[Subby]

Wow. Quik, do you still stand by your conclusion in that thread?
That thread makes me want to cry.

[Lathum]

so do they take today off?

IIRC they did in the past.

[larrymcg421]

so do they take today off?

IIRC they did in the past.

Yeah, they'll start again tomorrow.

[Lathum]

so is anyone else juiced for the Main Event final table in NOVEMBER

[rkmsuf]

so is anyone else juiced for the Main Event final table in NOVEMBER

it's like having the final tribal council on the live show


hey, that's a good idea.

[larrymcg421]

Find a good hitman. Offer him 50% of your winnings. That's over half a million per kill. You are the champ.

Will ESPN then still televise the show with one guy sitting there going all-in every hand as everyone slowly gets blinded out?

[Lathum]

it's like having the final tribal council on the live show


hey, that's a good idea.

except with survivor you only wait a week in between.

[Maple Leafs]

That thread makes me want to cry.
The part where Quik suggests the wrong answer and is then immediately corrected by SirFozzie made my brain shut down for an hour.

My wife found me sitting in front of the computer, and had to press my nose, ear, and left eyeball at the same time to reboot me.

[QuikSand]

That thread makes me want to cry.

The coolest thing in the thread was in post #5, where someone stepped in to inform us all that AA was the best hand you could have (preflop). Ooh, and then another in post #22 with the same breaking news.

[cartman]

Here's an account of how Hellmuth made his entrance to the Main Event:

hxxp://www.faniq.com/blog/Phil-Hellmuth-Arrives-At-World-Series-Of-Poker-In-Vegas-Dressed-As-General-Patton-Blog-10111

[kcchief19]

Find a good hitman. Offer him 50% of your winnings. That's over half a million per kill. You are the champ.

Will ESPN then still televise the show with one guy sitting there going all-in every hand as everyone slowly gets blinded out?
I"m assuming the entire table would be blinded it out, since I'm pretty sure the one guy left would be behind bars awaiting trial and I doubt the bail would be set low enough for any bondsman to take that gamble. That would be riveting TV.

[kcchief19]

The part where Quik suggests the wrong answer and is then immediately corrected by SirFozzie made my brain shut down for an hour.

My wife found me sitting in front of the computer, and had to press my nose, ear, and left eyeball at the same time to reboot me.
A soft reboot was no good for me after Professor Radii appeared with his charts, graphs and an easel.

[larrymcg421]

I"m assuming the entire table would be blinded it out, since I'm pretty sure the one guy left would be behind bars awaiting trial and I doubt the bail would be set low enough for any bondsman to take that gamble. That would be riveting TV.

Well if you're the chip leader, then you still win. Depending on the quality of your legal representation and said hitman's skills, it could still be a +EV play.

[larrymcg421]

Notable out from day 2a:

Johnny Hennigan
Ray Romano
Barry Greenstein
Kathy Liebert
Erick Lindgren
Paul Wasicka
Robert Varkonyi
Scotty Nguyen

[Maple Leafs]

How many will be left after Day 2? What's the bubble?

[larrymcg421]

464 survived day 2a, so I'd day we're looking at 900-1000 left at the end of day 2b.

I haven't seen a payout list yet.

[MJ4H]

464 survived day 2a, so I'd day we're looking at 900-1000 left at the end of day 2b.

I haven't seen a payout list yet.

here ya go

1: $9,119,517
2: $5,790,024
3: $4,503,352
4: $3,763,515
5: $3,088,012
6: $2,412,510
7: $1,769,174
8: $1,286,672
9: $900,670
10-12: $591,869
13-15: $463,201
16-18: $334,534
19-27: $257,334
28-36: $193,000
37-45: $154,400
46-54: $135,100
55-63: $115,800
64-72: $96,500
73-81: $77,200
82-90: $64,333
91-99: $51,466
100-162: $41,816
163-225: $38,600
226-288: $35,383
289-351: $32,166
352-414: $28,950
415-477: $27,020
478-540: $25,090
541-603: $23,160
604-666: $21,230

[kcchief19]

I never saw the final count of entries -- was it substantially down or did they alter the payouts? I was watching last year's repeat yesterday and noticed 28-36 paid about $90,000 higher last year, and I thought last year or two years ago everyone at final table was a millionaire.

[Ryan W.]

Pretty sure it was 2 years ago. Actually, I think even #10 may have been a millionaire during the Jamie Gold WSOP. The WSOP's attendence has been down a little for the past 2 years because of the laws that were passed.

[larrymcg421]

Updated player rosters and ME winners list. It's getting pretty thin, which is good news for Molly.

[larrymcg421]

Jennifer Harman has been eliminated.

[QuikSand]

Thanks for your efforts keeping this up to date.

Looks like my hopes lie with Alex.

[larrymcg421]

No scenario for me to win. I need Cunningham to gain ground on Molly and Matusow to pass Quiksand and Maple Leafs. The problem is that even if Cunningham makes the 1.5 million to get me past Molly, rockboy70 will jump right over both of us since he has Cunningham as his Money Man.

Other people with no winning scenarios:

Lathum only has Phil Hellmuth left, but several people with more points also have Hellmuth.

jbergey22 has Cunningham, Chan, and Hellmuth left, but two people above him have the same three player combo.

It looks like everyone else has some kind of winning scenario.

[larrymcg421]

Phil Gordon is out.

[larrymcg421]

Current chip counts of the guys that are left:

Mike Matusow - 255000
Phil Hellmuth - 235000
Pat Poels - 180000
Minh Nguyen - 173000
Johnny Chan - 170000
Allen Cunningham - 130000
Gus Hansen - 103000
Alex Kravchenko - 31000
Men Nguyen - 15000


Just noticed that Erik Seidel and Patrick Antonious have been knocked out today. This is more good news for Molly.

[larrymcg421]

Sorry Quik...

Kravchenko Eliminated
Alex Kravchenko shoved all in with http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Td.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/8d.gif and then Eetu Vehilainen isolated with an all in of his own with pocket tens. The board ran out http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Qc.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Kd.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/8c.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/9c.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Ah.gif and that would be the end of the Main Event for Kravchenko.

[SirFozzie]

Good, maybe this will stop people from going all in and then running off to hide in the crowd:



* 8 hours 8 minutes ago | Posted by shorton
Hand Killed, Table Flips

A controversy erupted over on the high Green tables. A player was all in and another player called. Both players turned their cards over, and the raiser walked away, refusing to look at the board. The dealer, thinking that his cards were now dead, mucked his hand and started pushing the pot toward the other player.

That's when the controversy started. The floor was called and the players were asked what their hands were - but neither player could remember exactly what they were. Ultimately, the pot was reconstructed and then split between the two players.

[larrymcg421]

Minh Nguyen ran Kings into Aces and is out just short of the money. Men Nguyen made it to the money, but not very far.

[st.cronin]

Good, maybe this will stop people from going all in and then running off to hide in the crowd:



* 8 hours 8 minutes ago | Posted by shorton
Hand Killed, Table Flips

A controversy erupted over on the high Green tables. A player was all in and another player called. Both players turned their cards over, and the raiser walked away, refusing to look at the board. The dealer, thinking that his cards were now dead, mucked his hand and started pushing the pot toward the other player.

That's when the controversy started. The floor was called and the players were asked what their hands were - but neither player could remember exactly what they were. Ultimately, the pot was reconstructed and then split between the two players.

I'm confused. What did the dealer think had happened that he folded the hand?

[Lathum]

I'm confused. What did the dealer think had happened that he folded the hand?

this is just a guess but technicaly if you get more then a chairlength away from your seat your hand is dead.

I am assuming he was enforcing that rule

[larrymcg421]

this is just a guess but technicaly if you get more then a chairlength away from your seat your hand is dead.

I am assuming he was enforcing that rule

I highly doubt that as it doesn't make any sense. You can't kill a hand when there is no more action to take. You still have to play it out.

They even play out hands when a guy hasn't shown up and the blind puts him all-in.

The only thing I can think is that the dealer tought the guy had folded, and was just exposing what he folded.

[MJ4H]

Gus Hansen is up to 900k early on today.

[larrymcg421]

Allen Cunningham Marches Toward the Top


This can't be welcome news for the rest of the field--Allen Cunninham is now up to 930,000 chips. He just picked up a big pot when Frank Russo raised to 20,000 and Cunningham reraised to 80,000. Russo called, and when the flop came http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Jx.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Ax.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/4x.gif Russo shipped in his stack holding http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Ax.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/10x.gif. Mistake--Cunningham had flopped a set of jacks and ended up making quads on the river. Russo was eliminated and Cunningham now commands a huge stack.

[larrymcg421]

More Cunningham....


Allen Cunningham Eliminates Trevor Reardon
All the money went in before the flop with Cunningham's http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Kx.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Kx.gif crushing Reardon's http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/9x.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/9x.gif. Cunningham's cowboys held up and he's now up to 1.2 million, while Reardon's tournament came to an end.

[Barkeep49]

Hoops I told you that I was disappointed in the lack of Cunningham as your ME winner.

[larrymcg421]

Here are the current winning scenarios:

MollyMurphy: Is mainly rooting against Hellmuth and Hansen as ME winner picks. She also has to dodge alot of Money Man picks, but those would have to go deep in the final table to be enough to overcome her lead.

Maple Leafs: Needs a combination of a double Phil Hellmuth and single Johnny Chan to outscore a combination of a single Phil Hellmuth, Gus Hansen, and Mike Matusow by 1400 points.

Quiksand: Cannot win. Maple Leafs has his two remaining players.

larrymcg421: There might be some bizaare combo out there, like Hellmuth, Matusow, and Cunningham finishing 1-2-3, but I'm essentially out.

Ryche: Needs Gus Hansen to win the Main Event.

rockboy70: Needs Cunningham to finish at least 6th or higher, and for Hellmuth, Chan, Hansen, or Matusow to come nowhere near that.

CleBrownsfan: Cannot win. Several people above have the same two player combo.

st. cronin: Cronin is looking for a Phil Hellmuth victory. Outside of that, everyone above him has at least one of his guys, and most have at least two of them. He will need all four of these guys to go very far.

timmynausea: The defending champ is done. Cronin has the same two player combo left.

jbergey22: Cannot win. cronin and Maple Leafs have the same three player combo.

Lathum: Cannot win. Several people above also have Hellmuth.

hoopsguy: Needs Hellmuth to win the Main Event.

digamma: Despite being way back in last place, digamma still has a chance to win. He's the only one with Pat Poels, so a Final Table run by Poels could do the trick by itself. A deep run by Cunningham could do it too, but would need help from Poels in that scenario too, since rockboy also has him as Money Man.

[larrymcg421]

dola

updated chip counts in first post...

[MJ4H]

dola

updated chip counts in first post...

chan is out

[larrymcg421]

Chan's exit leaves Maple Leafs to look for a 2nd-7th place Phil Hellmuth finish, and cronin can now only win if Hellmuth finishes 1st.

[digamma]

Poels is out.

[larrymcg421]

Yep, Poels is out. This eliminates digamma, although he can still jump up the leaderboard a bit if Cunningham goes far.

[SirFozzie]

Yikes. I'd hate this to happen to me:

Aleksandar Rasic left the Amazon Room at the last break along with all of the other players in the field. It is standard operating procedure here at the WSOP; players are not allowed to be in the tournament room until roughly five minutes are left on break. When he came back from smoking, he was just a bit tardy. He found that his table, Orange #40, had been broken immediately after play resumed. The only problem was, Rasic's stack was gone.

A search was immediately commenced by the floor staff. They went from table to table looking for dead stacks; announcements were made over the P.A. system; and members of the media were consulted to see if they know where Rasic was supposed to be seated. All of those efforts proved fruitless.

Harrah's surveillance staff reviewed the footage of the incident and was able to determine that the player seated immediately beside Rasic at Orange #40, Peter Traply, had accidentally scooped up Rasic's tiny stack (approximately 60,000 chips) when he transferred his own massive stack (over 800,000) to his new table. This appeared to be completely unintentional on Traply's part; the two stacks were very close to each other on Orange #40, and Traply inadvertently swept Rasic's chips up with his own.

Once that determination was made, the floor staff approached Traply, explained the situation, and took 60,000 chips out of his stack to give back to Rasic. Thirty-five minutes into the level, Rasic was finally seated at Blue #36, Seat 3 -- the seat formerly occupied by Maya Antonius, who was one of several players to bust in the interim.

[larrymcg421]

Updated the chip counts with 189 players left.

[larrymcg421]

Gus Hansen is out.

[Lathum]

3 top pros gone in a 10 minute span.

Hansen, Corkins and Chip Jett

[larrymcg421]

155 players left

[Buccaneer]

I don't follow WSOP but I was wondering about the schedule. This appears to have been going on for a long time. Do the players go home and then come back on weekends, or do some of them plan on living there for 2 months or so?

[larrymcg421]

They also play events during the week. And when they're not in an event, I'm sure they want to be there for what I imagine would be fish heavy cash games at that time of year.

[Buccaneer]

So then all of these players (that are left) are professionals and do this for a living?

[larrymcg421]

Here's how the pros are doing now...

Allen Cunningham hasn't been involved in many pots, but just took a bit of a hit and is down to 860,000.

Phil Hellmuth was bluffed several times and was on major tilt. Howver, he did make what looked to be a great laydown before finding a nice hand and doubling up. He has since been bluffed again and is down to 610,000.

Mike Matusow is playing really tight, but just picked up a pot by executing a squeeze play with Queens and is sitting at 700,000

[larrymcg421]

So then all of these players (that are left) are professionals and do this for a living?

Actually, most of them aren't, but this is just the Main Event. There were more than 50 events before this one. Many of the people playing now just signed up for the Main Event (or won it through a satellite entry), so they've only been here a week.

[cartman]

I don't follow WSOP but I was wondering about the schedule. This appears to have been going on for a long time. Do the players go home and then come back on weekends, or do some of them plan on living there for 2 months or so?

Well, the WSOP is made up of several dozen completely separate, unrelated events. The current Main Event started on July 3rd. Since there were so many entries, there were four different "starting" days for this event. The Main Event (the 54th of this WSOP) is scheduled to run for 8 days of playing.

[Buccaneer]

thanks

[larrymcg421]

Big hand for Hellmuth. My guess is AQ for Melby here.

An unusually quiet hand for Phil Hellmuth. Sitting in the small blind, he called a raise to 30,000 from the player with the button, Cort Kibler-Melby. Both players checked the http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/3s.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/5d.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/9d.gif flop. On the turn http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Ah.gif, Hellmuth took a stab with a bet of 62,000, but Kibler-Melby raised him to 124,000. Hellmuth called. On the river http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/9s.gif, Hellmuth fired again for 200,000. Kibler-Melby made a crying call to see Hellmuth turn over http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/3h.gif http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/3c.gif for a full house, threes full of nines. His chip stack has increased to about 1,140,000.

[Lathum]

I am rooting hard for Hellmuth.

Can you imagine how entertaining the 4 months before the final table will be if Hellmuth is waiting to play in it.

[larrymcg421]

I am rooting hard for Hellmuth.

Can you imagine how entertaining the 4 months before the final table will be if Hellmuth is waiting to play in it.

I'm rooting for Hellmuth also, but I guarantee you neither of us are rooting for him as hard as the ESPN producers.

[larrymcg421]

Allen Cunningham is out in 117th place.

[QuikSand]

I don't follow WSOP but I was wondering about the schedule. This appears to have been going on for a long time. Do the players go home and then come back on weekends, or do some of them plan on living there for 2 months or so?

Quite a lot of professional and semi-pro players now move to Vegas for several weeks for the WSOP stretch of events, and the related fanfare around town. There are great events and cash games all over Vegas in June and July now -- it's a great time to be around and play. (I went out for a month last summer)

[Barkeep49]

I can't decide if Phil Hellmuth reaching the final table is good for poker. I'd have preferred it to be someone real involved with the PPA so that message would go out for 3 months.

[larrymcg421]

So it all comes down to two players left...

Phil Hellmuth - 1,022,000
Mike Matusow - 700,000


Winning scenarios

MollyMurphy: Clinches victory if Hellmuth finises worse than 7th.

Maple Leafs: Needs Hellmuth to finish 7th through 2nd, but also must worry about Matusow. The higher Matusow finishes, then the higher he needs Hellmuth to finish.

Quiksand: Cannot win.

larrymcg421: Cannot win.

Ryche: Cannot win.

rockboy70: Cannot win.

CleBrownsfan: Cannot win.

st. cronin: Needs Phil Hellmuth to win.

timmynausea: Cannot win.

jbergey22: Cannot win.

Lathum: Cannot win.

hoopsguy: Needs Hellmuth to finish 1st.

digamma: Cannot win.

[Lathum]

I am actualy rooting for Mark Vos, he always comes off as a really cool, laid back nice guy.

[larrymcg421]

Shawn Sheikhan is out.

[larrymcg421]

With 92 people left...

Phil Hellmuth - 1,280,000 (which seems to be about average stack)
Mike Matusow - 756,000

Other pros still around...

Mark Vos - 1,750,000
Matt Matros - 1,650,000
Kido Pham - 1,265,000
Victor Ramdin - 1,000,000
Thomas Keller - 400,000

[Subby]

Would love to see McManus win this thing.

[larrymcg421]

That's not the same McManus that wrote Positively 5th Street.

[larrymcg421]

dola

But I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a fellow mick win.

[Subby]

Oh well then fuck him.

:D

[larrymcg421]

Hellmuth and Matusow are now both at the feature table, sitting right next to each other. This should be interesting.

Matusow recently doubled up to $1.1 million.

[Lathum]

with 10 5, got caught making a move and lucked out

[Radii]

Hellmuth making the final table is the easiest way to guarantee that I don't watch, they got rid of most of the jackass grandstanding this year with the new rules but there's no rules against being a prima donna crybaby yet so Hellmuth would just be more of the same.

[Lathum]

Hellmuth making the final table is the easiest way to guarantee that I don't watch, they got rid of most of the jackass grandstanding this year with the new rules but there's no rules against being a prima donna crybaby yet so Hellmuth would just be more of the same.

man I disagree.

There are few things more entertaining in the world then watching Hellmuth and his antics.


And he is the best tournament player in the world.

[larrymcg421]

I certainly don't condone Phil's actions, as entertaining as they are, but I can understand why he's pissed about this hand...

Cristian Dragomir opened with a raise to 80,000 before Hellmuth made it 255,000 to go from the small blind. "I hope he doesn't have aces," said Hellmuth as Dragomir asked for a count. After a few moments, Dragomir made the call. They saw a flop of http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/9c.gifhttp://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Tc.gifhttp://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/7s.gif and Hellmuth checked to Dragomir, who thought for a moment before firing a healthy bet of 300,000. Hellmuth sighed in disgust before folding http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/As.gifhttp://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Kh.gif face-up on the table. Matusow laughed and said to Dragomir to show the bluff, and Dragomir flipped http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/Td.gifhttp://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/images/cards/4d.gif! Matusow and the crowd roared in hysterics as Hellmuth jumped out of his seat and stormed around the room berating his opponent for calling his reraise with ten high. "Listen buddy, you're an idiot!" screamed Hellmuth. "This is the Main Event and you are the worst player in history!" he continued as the crowd was loving every moment of the blow-up. Dragomir's entourage continued to cheer as Hellmuth continued the barrage. The TD stepped in and issued a warning to Hellmuth to settle down before Dragomir stood up out of his chair to put Hellmuth back in his place with a cry of, "Enough is enough!" Fortunately for both players the clock ticked over to the end of the level, and the end of the day's play to settle both players down. They eventually shook hands and began to bag up their chips as Mike Matusow summed up the situation best as he shouted, "Thank God for Phil Hellmuth! Thank God for Chris Moneymaker!" What a way to end the day!

[Lathum]

Hellmuth is good for poker.

[albionmoonlight]

So is Hellmuth still that unstable, or has he started playing the Hellmuth part now because we all expect it?

[larrymcg421]

So is Hellmuth still that unstable, or has he started playing the Hellmuth part now because we all expect it?

I honestly think it's a mixture of both.

[Lathum]

I don't think it's an act at all when it comes to his blowups, by all accounts he was like this ( actualy worse) before poker got so mainstream.

I do think he is a self promoter when it comes to things like showing up in a race car, etc...

[QuikSand]

So, unrelated question.

Say you're a "regular guy" with a day job who put in something like $1000 or so to play in satellites, played well or got lucky (or likely both) to win a slot in the main event, and now you're in the remaining field of fewer than 10 tables worth. Let's say you have an average stack right now.

At what point do you completely stop thinking about the amount of money that each increment is worth now (as it creeps toward a hundred thousand dollars, and up into multiples of that) and start thinking exclusively about final table money and massively life-changing results?

I think that's got to be hard, mentally. For the next day or so, each *level* you survive is worth another $20,000 or so. That's pretty meaningful money to your average vinyl siding installer, you know what I mean? Is the lure of *millions* and the fact that you can kind of smell it from here so strong that you become completely indifferent to making another hundred thousand dollars? (basically the difference between, say, finishing #70 and #30)

I haven't been in this situation exactly (my WSOP experiences have both been with such short stacks that I had no liberty to really be thinking about lasting a long, long time) but I think we all reach it at some point. Even at the last few final tables, it certainly seemed there were players very conscious about inching forward rather than leaping, and I have to imagine that the massive payout increments between slots like 9th and 4th or 5th play some role in that. $9 million is awfully nice. But so is adding on another $500,000 just by letting someone else be the next kamikaze. It's gotta be tough to get completely past that if this isn't something that you experience all the time.

[larrymcg421]

So, unrelated question.

Say you're a "regular guy" with a day job who put in something like $1000 or so to play in satellites, played well or got lucky (or likely both) to win a slot in the main event, and now you're in the remaining field of fewer than 10 tables worth. Let's say you have an average stack right now.

At what point do you completely stop thinking about the amount of money that each increment is worth now (as it creeps toward a hundred thousand dollars, and up into multiples of that) and start thinking exclusively about final table money and massively life-changing results?

I think that's got to be hard, mentally. For the next day or so, each *level* you survive is worth another $20,000 or so. That's pretty meaningful money to your average vinyl siding installer, you know what I mean? Is the lure of *millions* and the fact that you can kind of smell it from here so strong that you become completely indifferent to making another hundred thousand dollars? (basically the difference between, say, finishing #70 and #30)

I haven't been in this situation exactly (my WSOP experiences have both been with such short stacks that I had no liberty to really be thinking about lasting a long, long time) but I think we all reach it at some point. Even at the last few final tables, it certainly seemed there were players very conscious about inching forward rather than leaping, and I have to imagine that the massive payout increments between slots like 9th and 4th or 5th play some role in that. $9 million is awfully nice. But so is adding on another $500,000 just by letting someone else be the next kamikaze. It's gotta be tough to get completely past that if this isn't something that you experience all the time.

I think I would play pretty tight, but not insanely tight that I'm just allowing myself to be blinded off.

Funny anecdote from this year: Someone actually did not show up for day 3. They were blinded down throughout the day, but had enough chips to survive to the money.

[Lathum]

I think I would play pretty tight, but not insanely tight that I'm just allowing myself to be blinded off.

Funny anecdote from this year: Someone actually did not show up for day 3. They were blinded down throughout the day, but had enough chips to survive to the money.

they had 1100 left.

I think I would be lying if I said I wouldn't be trying to inch up in the money but I think at some point you have to go for it. When I get dep in a tournament online I usualy play loose right after the money jump then tighten up closer to the next jump, especialy if it is a signefigant amount.

I think I would honestly just play premium hands and try and double up each time.

That's also why the pro's like Hellmuth and Mattasow have such a huge advantage regardless of chipstack. They care far more about the win, have the experience to know how to handle the pressure and can sense who is trying to move up and who is playing to win, and can steal accordingly.

[Lathum]

dola- the WSOP site has been periodicaly showing how much each player would get if there was an equal chop.

It was something like 478,000 with 100 players left.

[digamma]

man I disagree.

There are few things more entertaining in the world then watching Hellmuth and his antics.


And he is the best tournament player in the world.

He may be the best NLHE tournament player in the world against amateurs. I don't think he scares the pros and his results in smaller field professional tournaments and non-NLHE games are evidence of that.

[Lathum]

He may be the best NLHE tournament player in the world against amateurs. I don't think he scares the pros and his results in smaller field professional tournaments and non-NLHE games are evidence of that.

Again I disagree.


He has won 11 braclets, many before the fields were massive and were mostly pro's in the fields.

I agree pros arent afraid of him but they arent afraid of anyone. Plus he has shown he can navigate through massive fields.

[larrymcg421]

He may be the best NLHE tournament player in the world against amateurs. I don't think he scares the pros and his results in smaller field professional tournaments and non-NLHE games are evidence of that.

I don't know about that. Remember, he won quite a few of those bracelets before the poker explosion, so those fields were mostly pros. He is a bad cash game player, but I think that has more to do with how the structure of such a game matches his style than the level of competition.

[Lathum]

elaborating on hellmuths bracelets.

1989 $10,000 ME- 178 players
1992 $5,000 NLHE- 88 players
1993- $2500 NLHE- 173 players
1993- $1500 NLHE- 284 players- back to back wins
1993- $5000 NLHE -63 players- 3 in a row, I had no idea he did that
1997 $3000 PLHE- 170 players
2001- $2000 NLHE- 441 players
2003- $2500 LHE- 194 players
2003- $3000 NLHE- 398 players
2006- $1000 NLHE w/ rebuys- 754 players
2007- $1500 NLHE- 2628 players

Most of these fields were smaller with all pros. He also has numerous seconds and has the record for most final tables and cashes.

As for him not being able to beat pros he was the Heads up Poker championship in 2005 beating Men Nguyen, Paul Phillips, Huck Seed, Lyle Berman, Antonio Esfandiari, and Chris Ferguson.

[Subby]

I would probably tend to agree more with a statement like "Phil Hellmuth is one of the best NLHE tournament players in the world."

[digamma]

Again I disagree.


He has won 11 braclets, many before the fields were massive and were mostly pro's in the fields.

I agree pros arent afraid of him but they arent afraid of anyone. Plus he has shown he can navigate through massive fields.

I don't know about that. Remember, he won quite a few of those bracelets before the poker explosion, so those fields were mostly pros. He is a bad cash game player, but I think that has more to do with how the structure of such a game matches his style than the level of competition.

That's a different argument than the one to which I first responded. He may be the best tournament player in history or have the best WSOP results in history, but that is a very different argument than saying he is the best tournament player in the world today. There are people like Allen Cunningham, Barry Greenstein and Eric Seidel (just to name three off the top of my head) who have had just as much recent success as Hellmuth and may stake a claim to being the best tournament player in the world today.

[digamma]

I would probably tend to agree more with a statement like "Phil Hellmuth is one of the best NLHE tournament players in the world."

And you would get no argument from me, smart guy.

[Lathum]

Hellmuth also finished 3rd in a HORSE event this year.

I should petition to be president of his fan club

[larrymcg421]

That's a different argument than the one to which I first responded. He may be the best tournament player in history or have the best WSOP results in history, but that is a very different argument than saying he is the best tournament player in the world today. There are people like Allen Cunningham, Barry Greenstein and Eric Seidel (just to name three off the top of my head) who have had just as much recent success as Hellmuth and may stake a claim to being the best tournament player in the world today.

Well, I wouldn't disagree with that. Those guys are great players and certainly belong in the discussion. The only thing I took exception to was your statement about Hellmuth's success against amateurs or pros. Hellmuth has already proven that he can do very well against the pros. If anything, he really struggled with amateurs at first, going almost two years without a major tourney victory as the poker boom started.

[digamma]

Hellmuth also finished 3rd in a HORSE event this year.

I should petition to be president of his fan club

in a 1500 event going on at the same time the 50k was (which he got eliminated from on the first day).

Look, I think Hellmuth is as important to the poker boom as Moneymaker. He generates interest from non-poker fans. I just don't think he is the best tournament player in the world. Does he belong in the conversation? Absolutely, I just don't end up landing on him at the end of that conversation.

[MJ4H]

Nice to see Hellmuth didn't even have to serve his 1 orbit penalty ??

[larrymcg421]

Nice to see Hellmuth didn't even have to serve his 1 orbit penalty ??

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what the reasons were for overturning the ruling. He's definitely taking advantage of it, and has almost doubled his chip stack to $1.4 million.

[MJ4H]

Well I read that they bought his story that it was all played up for the ESPN cameras (like that should be an excuse).

[larrymcg421]

Hellmuth ran into a straight and then into AK. He's now on life support with $380,000.

[larrymcg421]

dola

Meanwhile, Matusow hit a full house and has doubled up to $2.4 million.

[Lathum]

Hellmuth is hurting.

I think his meeting this morning was BS, would joe amature been granted that meeting this morning?

[larrymcg421]

Hellmuth is hurting.

I think his meeting this morning was BS, would joe amature been granted that meeting this morning?

I read on 2p2 that a player was disqualified from a final table in a WSOP circuit event for inappropriate behavior. However, this guy had been warned repeatedly over several days before any penalty was enforced. Sounds like they would've actually been holding Hellmuth to a higher standard here.

[larrymcg421]

We are down to 52 players. Hellmuth still hasn't made his move. He's got to push really soon.

[MJ4H]

He's at 740k I think. 2nd hand source.

[larrymcg421]

If that's true, then he's basically doubled up. You'd think that's something Pokernews might want to report, even if he just moved in to take blinds and antes.

[Subby]

I actually played with that Brandon Cantu kid in 2006 at the 1000NL. He had just won his first bracelet a week or so before and we got some camera time.

That's about as close as I am coming to poker greatness.

[MJ4H]

If that's true, then he's basically doubled up. You'd think that's something Pokernews might want to report, even if he just moved in to take blinds and antes.It's true, but it was more than one hand.

Here is a page that has chip counts up to the minute: http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2008-world-series-of-poker/main-event/chip-counts/day6/

[SirFozzie]

Hellmuth now at 600K

[MJ4H]

and Matusow well over 3 mill. I'm pulling hard for Mikey.

[Lathum]

My wife is rooting hard against Hellmuth so she can put a bunch of hard core poker junkies to shame

[larrymcg421]

Looks like Phil Hellmuth is out.

[larrymcg421]

dola

Hellmuth is out in 45th place. He finally pushed with AQ and lost a race to JJ.

MollyMurphy has clinched the WSOP Pool championship!

[MJ4H]

He is. 45th. AQ allin EP 400k called by JJ. Jacks held.

[larrymcg421]

Now I'm down to rooting for Matusow to not completely blow up.

[Jas_lov]

Cantu just lost a big pot and is now down to $4 million chips. Matusow isn't really doing much and is at about the same as Cantu. The only woman left is Tiffany "Hot Chips" Michelle who is currently 6th with just under $8 million chips.

[Jas_lov]

Mike Matusow has been eliminated in 30th place. Paul Snead raised it to 200k, Matusow re-raised to 660k, Snead called. AA5 flop. Both players check. 9 on the turn. Matusow bets, Snead goes all in, Matusow calls with AJ. Snead turns over A9 and the river is no help, the last big name pro is gone. Matusow had been playing tight all day and gets his re-raise called with A9 and then Snead hits the miracle turn. Poor Mikey.

[Lathum]

I feel bad for Matasow.

[larrymcg421]

That really sucks. 2nd time he's been coolered when making a deep run.

[larrymcg421]

Tiffany Michelle is out.

She had AJ. She moved over the top on an Ace high flop. Opponent called and showed AA.

[SirFozzie]

At 3:30 AM Pacific, 6:30 AM Eastern, we have our November Nine (this chip count is unofficial from Pokernews)

Dennis Phillips PokerStars 26.42 Million
Ivan Demidov PokerStars 23.92 Million
Peter Eastgate PokerStars 19.3 Million
Scott Montgomery Full Tilt Poker 19.3 Million
Ylon Schwartz PokerStars 13.0 Million
Darus Suharto PokerStars 13.0 Million
David 'Chino' Rheem PokerStars 10.88 Million
Craig Marquis Full Tilt Poker 10.12 Million
Kelly Kim (No sponsor) 2.9 Million

[albionmoonlight]

I assume that Kelly "No Sponsor" Kim is somewhat of a no-name. If that assumption is right, then I would also assume that the multi-month layoff really helps him/her. As opposed to being the person who got to the final table and lost a round or two in, s/he will get months to be part of the final nine and have all of the publicity that comes with the position.

[larrymcg421]

Kelly is a dude. If Kelly was a female, I can guarantee that she wouldn't be "no sponsor" this late into the tourney.

But you're right, it definitely helps him quite a bit. The layoff also will lead to several of them hiring a superstar as a coach, like Jamie Gold did with Johnny Chan.

[albionmoonlight]

Kelly is a dude. If Kelly was a female, I can guarantee that she wouldn't be "no sponsor" this late into the tourney.

You are, clearly, 100%, right.

That almost had the makings of some sort of brainteaser or something.

[digamma]

I assume that Kelly "No Sponsor" Kim is somewhat of a no-name. If that assumption is right, then I would also assume that the multi-month layoff really helps him/her. As opposed to being the person who got to the final table and lost a round or two in, s/he will get months to be part of the final nine and have all of the publicity that comes with the position.

Make no mistake, they are all "nobodies" and have latched onto sites either by qualifying through the site for the main event or by simply advancing in the tournament. It's a safe bet that Mr. Kim will be wearing some sort of logo in November.

[MJ4H]

Chino has been around a bit. I've heard of him and remember seeing him in a few televised events.

[Lathum]

I hate this layoff BS.

I should be getting ready for the final table PPV.

[digamma]

I hate this layoff BS.

I should be getting ready for the final table PPV.

But just think...now you have four months to get ready. I'd suggest no mimosas before the final table...don't want to cloud your focus.

[Lathum]

So I just realized the final table is being played on my wedding anniversary.

[Lathum]

Hellmuth just had an all time blow up directed towards Adam Roothluss Levy, one of the best online players in the world.