Terminator 4: Salvation

[gottimd]

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[gottimd]

That was fast, they took it off of youtube but it is here on yahoo...

http://movies.yahoo.com/premieres/8841507/standardformat/

[DanGarion]

For those that watch the TV Show, it is now considered a different timeline because of them going 7 years into the future. So there are two timelines, the next movies and the TV shows.

[Marc Vaughan]

Ok must see this ...

[sterlingice]

Eh. I'm liking where the Fox show went whereas Terminator 3 was pretty bad so I'm hoping more for the show to succeed.

SI

[Mrs. Schmidty]

That looks pretty freakin' awesome! :) I liked the movies too much to watch the show - I hate spin-offs.

[gottimd]

For those of you who may be interested, there has been some recent footage that has leaked and apparently on Tuesday the official trailer will be released....

Entertainment Tonight had some clips...

YouTube - Terminator Salvation on ET (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw_hALL7zqg)

[Anthony]

I downloaded the trailer - it stars Christian Bale and it looks awesome. i'll go see it. hopefully it has a cameo from Arnold.

[gottimd]

I downloaded the trailer - it stars Christian Bale and it looks awesome. i'll go see it. hopefully it has a cameo from Arnold.

I heard it does.

Terminator Salvation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_Salvation)

[gottimd]

JAPANESE TRAILER FOR TERMINATOR SALVATION, WITH CHRISTIAN BALE | FilmDrunk - Movie news and trailers for people who "party" (http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/?p=7181)

[JeeberD]

Damn...it's been pulled already.

[Kodos]

Hopefully it can redeem the crap that was Terminator 3.

[stevew]

T3 might not be as good as the first two but I still enjoyed it quite a bit

[gottimd]

Terminator Salvation Japanese Trailer - Trailer Addict (http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/terminator-salvation/japanese-trailer)

Looks pretty good, I think it will be on Entertainment Tonight during the show but here is the Japanese Trailer. It will be the same one.

[DaddyTorgo]

So apparently there's a big twist at the end of T4 (just got this off a gossip website, not sure how reliable it is actually or what their source was or how widely known this is)

At the end of the upcoming movie John Connor is seriously hurt and so they rebuild him as part machine. He's a terminator now too, pretty much, except that he yells a lot and knows how to love. It’s how they win the war.

If it's true - not a fan of the idea

[chadritt]

Thats an old rumor which the makers of the film are denying. There is a "twist" which the trailer pretty much spells out even though reporters who were on set were asked not to talk about it.

[gottimd]

I think that ending was proven as a false rumor in a way. That was the original script but I think McG and others had changed it before it started filming.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaaah okay. that's good, because that'd be a shitty twist.

[gottimd]

The trailer (in english) is online if you haven't seen it already....

Terminator Salvation Trailer - Trailer Addict (http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/terminator-salvation/trailer)

[MikeVic]

The new trailer I saw before Watchmen is so bad ass. I can't wait to see this movie! Great use of the Nine Inch Nails song.

TERMINATOR SALVATION (http://terminatorsalvation.com/)

[cthomer5000]

Hopefully it can redeem the crap that was Terminator 3.

I thought Terminator 3 was totally fine... I didn't think it either enhanced or reduced the legacy of the first two movies. I went in with low expectations though - i think that always has a massive impact on one's judgement of something.

[Kodos]

Probably. Terminator 2 is probably my favorite action movie of all time.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, I gotta side with the tentacled one. T2 was one of my favorite action movies ever and T3 was, well, crap.

SI

[SackAttack]

Yeah, I gotta side with the tentacled one. T2 was one of my favorite action movies ever and T3 was, well, crap.

SI

T2 was a great *action* movie, but it made no more sense than T3 did. For all of the people ripping on T3's plot, just go back to T2.

Okay, so you failed in your first attempt to take out Sarah Connor, so you're going after John Connor instead. Wait, what?

Why would you go further *forward*? Why not go back further? Okay, maybe you can't take out Sarah herself, because then she'd be aware of the threat in 1984 and you wind up with some paradox or other, but trying again in the future when she knows there's a threat to her because of her son and has (presumably) imparted said knowledge of said threat to him makes absolutely no sense.

Even allowing for 'Okay, all failure to kill Sarah did was ensure that she's able to raise the future leader of the resistance,' and so the future never changed and nuclear destruction wasn't averted. I get that.

I'm just saying, whatever plot issues folks had with T3 can be directly traced back to the existence of T2 in the first place.

[cthomer5000]

Dude, seriously, don't trash-talk T2. You'll be on my ignore list so fast.

[SackAttack]

Dude, seriously, don't trash-talk T2. You'll be on my ignore list so fast.

Not trash-talking a thing. I loved T2.

Looking back at the thread, actually, I think you and I are on the same page. It neither enhanced or damaged the "legacy," and while you wouldn't have shed tears if it had never been made, it doesn't deserve the vitriol many hurl at it, either.

[cthomer5000]

Not trash-talking a thing. I loved T2.

Looking back at the thread, actually, I think you and I are on the same page. It neither enhanced or damaged the "legacy," and while you wouldn't have shed tears if it had never been made, it doesn't deserve the vitriol many hurl at it, either.

Yeah, it's exactly how I felt. I remember thinking 'wow, i actually kind of enjoyed that' as the credits rolled after T3.

[DanGarion]

Interesting blog about Skynet...

Resist Or Be Terminated (http://resistorbeterminated.com/)

[DaddyTorgo]

Interesting blog about Skynet...

Resist Or Be Terminated (http://resistorbeterminated.com/)

yay viral marketing. it's just more fun!

[MikeVic]

Cool "terminate yourself" site:

Terminate Yourself (http://terminateyourself.com/)

[JediKooter]

Just got back from seeing it...I was underwhelmed and disappointed. I think McG has just Uwe Boll'd the Terminator series.

The movie had potential, but, just seemed...too TVish, for the lack of a better word.

There were some good parts, but, (I can't figure out the spoiler tag) ahhh I want to say it!!!

****SMALL SPOILER****

When they started using the sounds from the machines from the Tom Cruise version of War of the Worlds, it took me out of the movie.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh...damn. my buddy was talking about going to see it this weekend. maybe we'll go see ST again or something if you were underwhelmed and dissapointed.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

i just noticed who the OP of this thread was :cry:

[JediKooter]

dola

i just noticed who the OP of this thread was :cry:

I just now did too. :(

[stevew]

My brother just compared it to Xmen 3. Ugh

[Travis]

Saw it last night.

Decent action, good effects and some nice surprises in the acting category from some of the supporting roles.

Plot holes you could drive a few trucks through unfortunately, and for me, it really robbed me of getting any enjoyment out of the movie. It had a lot of potential but felt like it still needed a couple rewrites to get to where it'd be a really good movie.

And yes, I know we're talking an action movie here. Normally I wouldn't quibble too much about the writing in an action flick, but it stood out that much to me.

I don't know if I'd put it up there with X3 or Spiderman 3, but it's closer to those than the first two Terminators.

[Calis]

Saw this yesterday as well. I thought it was awful. Plot holes like mentioned but beyond that it had really shallow characters and overall was not interesting.

I'm a big Christian Bale fan and thought he was terrible. It wasn't all on him as he wasn't given much to work with, but he was not strong.

I really have to struggle to come up with anything good to say about it. I think I actually much prefer the 3rd one even to this.

I think the setting and the timeline of this one really set it apart from what made the first and second movie interesting.

Worst movie I've seen in the theatre in a long time. Probably since X-Men 3 actually, but I think it's a little better than that one.

[Landshark44]

i saw it today..

i wasn't expecting much, the reviews were pretty bad. i kind of liked it. thought the story was good, the action was top notch, and i left the theatre not dissapointed at all....for what that's worth....

[SackAttack]

Just got home from seeing it. I liked it, in kind of the same way I liked Terminator 3.

1) It's an action movie.
2) It's an attempt to extend the mythology that isn't directed by James Cameron. Accept that for what it is; somebody else's vision is being grafted on, and that's always going to make for some awkwardness.

That said...

I will say I'm a little curious as to how the 'Infiltrator' bit works when the Terminator in question doesn't even realize he's a Terminator.

I'm also surprised Connor wasn't more skeptical of the 'radio signal' gambit, especially when Command made it out to be this great thing that would end the war. He hasn't met Kyle Reese yet, he hasn't sent him back into the past to protect his mother yet, etc, and remember, Reese went back basically on the heels of the original Terminator. It's just this great Deus Ex Machina falling into the laps of the Resistance, and it would be perfectly logical of Connor to be skeptical of that without indulging in any 'savior of mankind' hubris.

I know, it's a plot device used to advance the movie, but it is an awfully precarious point on which to balance. Not precarious enough to ruin my enjoyment of the movie, but it makes me wary of the rumored 5th and 6th installments. The whole point of the first three movies was 'gotta protect the savior of mankind.' If the focus of T4-6 is to be on getting Reese to loop back and then, perhaps, to show the end of the war (military sci-fi instead of time travel sci-fi), probably need to not get quite so ambitious with the backdrop conflict in the next two.

[ISiddiqui]

In response, Sack:

Since he apparently had a camera on him, they could have just extracted that when he was in his new body, or it could have been transmitting all along

As I said in the rating thread... low expectations probably helped, but I didn't think it was all that bad. I liked it far better than, say, "Wolverine". It more of a conventional action movie than being the awesomeness of T1 and T2.

[SackAttack]

In response, Sack:

Since he apparently had a camera on him, they could have just extracted that when he was in his new body, or it could have been transmitting all along

Well...

...I don't mean how it works for Skynet. I'm sure they were getting information from him that way, and it makes sense that the thing chasing them knew to verify the presence of Kyle Reese, since it would have gotten some kind of a transmission like that from Wright.

There's just other implications, such as Wright's behavior around Reese. If he's under Skynet's control but doesn't know it, how does that square with the protectiveness he showed both Kyle and Star? I can't imagine the idea was to get both Reese and Connor to 'Skynet Central,' because killing Reese would have effectively eliminated Connor. So that doesn't make any sense as a motivation, even a subconscious motivation.

It's not the tightest bit of moviemaking you'll ever see, for sure. But even the headscratchers weren't troubling enough to prevent me enjoying the movie.

[Cork]

Saw it yesterday and thought it was very good. My biggest complaint was that it should have been 30 minutes longer. That would have allowed some of the thinner parts of the storyline to be fleshed out a bit more.

-Cork

[ISiddiqui]

They generally don't greenlight many 2hr 40min movies anymore :D.

[Cork]

They generally don't greenlight many 2hr 40min movies anymore :D.

I guess they are now called directors cuts.

-Cork

[cartman]

They generally don't greenlight many 2hr 40min movies anymore :D.

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button?

[Marc Vaughan]

I saw it and was somewhat underwhelmed for sure - not quite certain why possibly some of the illogical plot cuves (such as the ending leaving itself open for sequels and not wrapping up at all) or the wooden acting (particularly fom Mr. Bale imho).


Things which bugged me about the film particulaly:
* Why are the teminators so darn rare in the big base?
* How come throughout the film the 'big base' is where they have to destroy SkyNet then at the end its like just a small base and SkyNet is fine after its destroy.
* Why didn't the command sub turn off the signal as soon as they realised it wasn't working/they had incoming.
* How come everyone obeyed John Connors command not to attack when the film went out of its way to show there wasn't universal support for him at the start of the film (and considering he spent most of the film getting ALL of his troops killed on each encounter he was in).
* Why did John Connor sneak off and enter the base on his own?
* Why did the resistance suddenly accept a known terminator as a 'good guy' because he carried a half-dead Connor out of the base (considering the last time thte resistance had seen him they were trying to kill him).


I do think part of the problem though is simply that I saw the new Star Trek movie last week and well that was fantastic and make T4 look very poor by comparison.

[SackAttack]

I saw it and was somewhat underwhelmed for sure - not quite certain why possibly some of the illogical plot cuves (such as the ending leaving itself open for sequels and not wrapping up at all) or the wooden acting (particularly fom Mr. Bale imho).

Well, let's see...


Things which bugged me about the film particulaly:
* Why are the teminators so darn rare in the big base?

Considering that you had to have the eye of the Terminator to gain access to the base, it doesn't surprise me that they'd have had a skeleton crew to deal with the human prisoners and have the bulk of the Terminators out rounding up/killing other humans. Skynet is kinda pathological about that.

* How come throughout the film the 'big base' is where they have to destroy SkyNet then at the end its like just a small base and SkyNet is fine after its destroy.

Decentralization, for one. It's not that it was a 'small base,' but Skynet probably wouldn't be stupid enough to put all of its eggs in one basket. It might have been the dominant Skynet presence in California, but that doesn't mean it was command central for the whole enchilada.

Also, that was probably their big test for the 'radio signal.' Remember, the signal had to be continuous unless you blow the shit out of the inert Terminators. Thus, use the signal to pacify them, then level the place.

Although I will say if they thought the signal was going to work, there was no reason for Command to be a dick about rescuing those people.

* Why didn't the command sub turn off the signal as soon as they realised it wasn't working/they had incoming.

Triangulation. Skynet is a computer. It would have identified the source of the signal, and once it had that, there probably wasn't going to be a lot Command could do, particularly not once they *had* incoming. Just put your head between your knees and kiss your butt goodbye.

* How come everyone obeyed John Connors command not to attack when the film went out of its way to show there wasn't universal support for him at the start of the film (and considering he spent most of the film getting ALL of his troops killed on each encounter he was in).

Well, the movie prequel novel talks about how Connor was kind of outside the 'official' Resistance early on. Dunno if it was Command being afraid of usurpation, or something equally retarded. I dunno. But he headed up kind of a splinter Resistance that eventually managed to link up. That would have been a significant faction of folks who had served with Connor and would have been in position to evangelize among the rest of the troops, as it were. Plus, that comment early in the movie - 'just like you said,' - hints that Connor may have been gaining a reputation for eerie foresight. If you're serving with a guy you think Knows Stuff, you might be more willing to give him the leeway than the brass. Particularly if you're fighting for the survival of your race and there are lots of prisoners inhabiting your target.

* Why did John Connor sneak off and enter the base on his own?

One can infiltrate more easily than two. Or six. Or a dozen.

* Why did the resistance suddenly accept a known terminator as a 'good guy' because he carried a half-dead Connor out of the base (considering the last time thte resistance had seen him they were trying to kill him).

Because he was carrying a half-dead Connor and not throwing a completely dead Connor at their feet? They wouldn't be shooting at him in the first place with Connor at his side (don't wanna hit Connor on accident), and, again, there would be no reason for Marcus not to kill Connor if he were a Bad Guy.


I do think part of the problem though is simply that I saw the new Star Trek movie last week and well that was fantastic and make T4 look very poor by comparison.

Kinda neat how Anton Yelchin got a significant role in two summer blockbusters though, huh? No fear of getting typecast as either Chekov or Kyle Reese.

[Marc Vaughan]

Considering that you had to have the eye of the Terminator to gain access to the base, it doesn't surprise me that they'd have had a skeleton crew to deal with the human prisoners and have the bulk of the Terminators out rounding up/killing other humans. Skynet is kinda pathological about that
But that would be illogical and inefficient - especially as SkyNet's plan was to encourage an attack on the various bases etc. through making itself look weak via the 'signal' - that would imply a heck of a lot of Teminator firepower in close proximity to the bases to kick butt when required.

So how come when eveything beaks loose thee's naff all around?

Triangulation. Skynet is a computer. It would have identified the source of the signal, and once it had that, there probably wasn't going to be a lot Command could do, particularly not once they *had* incoming. Just put your head between your knees and kiss your butt goodbye.
They're in a nuclear sub capable of aound 30 knots - given a few minutes 'blind side' they have at least a fighting chance of avoiding things - heck in that situation I'd have expected them to at least dive and attempt to get the heck out of there.

One can infiltrate more easily than two. Or six. Or a dozen.
True to some extent - but one can also get slaughtered and have no one covering his back. I'd have expected him to at least prep his men on what he was doing and what he'd need for backup that sort of thing - very non 'action hero' I know ... but ...



PS - The rest you explain pretty well, still doesn't sit fantastically with me - but your explanations do help.

[SackAttack]

Lemme take another whack at it.

Considering that you had to have the eye of the Terminator to gain access to the base, it doesn't surprise me that they'd have had a skeleton crew to deal with the human prisoners and have the bulk of the Terminators out rounding up/killing other humans. Skynet is kinda pathological about that
But that would be illogical and inefficient - especially as SkyNet's plan was to encourage an attack on the various bases etc. through making itself look weak via the 'signal' - that would imply a heck of a lot of Teminator firepower in close proximity to the bases to kick butt when required.

Not really. Think of it in terms of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars - you're fighting a decentralized force with a low-visibility command structure. Are you more interested in beating the shit out of the poor bastards being sent to die, or in rooting out the command structure? Same idea. Once you take out the guys running the show, mop-up work becomes easier. It's more difficult to lead than to point and shoot, particularly if you're human rather than a hive mind.

Now, if Skynet wasn't trying to play the spider-to-the-fly game, then yeah, I agree - they'd probably be more aggressive in the defense of their facilities.

Triangulation. Skynet is a computer. It would have identified the source of the signal, and once it had that, there probably wasn't going to be a lot Command could do, particularly not once they *had* incoming. Just put your head between your knees and kiss your butt goodbye.
They're in a nuclear sub capable of aound 30 knots - given a few minutes 'blind side' they have at least a fighting chance of avoiding things - heck in that situation I'd have expected them to at least dive and attempt to get the heck out of there.

C'mon, this is the same Command that was more interested in blowing hell out of the Skynet facilities after the signal had them supposedly pacified than in rescuing the human prisoners while there was a golden opportunity. You expect them to act rationally? :)

One can infiltrate more easily than two. Or six. Or a dozen.
True to some extent - but one can also get slaughtered and have no one covering his back. I'd have expected him to at least prep his men on what he was doing and what he'd need for backup that sort of thing - very non 'action hero' I know ... but ...

What kind of backup is he going to get at that point? Remember, Terminators die very, very hard, and getting into the facility past the automated defenses is already a pain in the ass. If something went horribly wrong, about all he could really do is call down the thunder. But then, if things went horribly wrong...remember, he's supposed to send Kyle Reese back to protect his mother. If things go so horribly wrong that he dies, he never meets Reese and sends him back, his mother gets Terminated, Skynet wins anyway.

It's sort of an all-in situation any way you slice it. There's not really an easy way to get a team into a fortified facility like that, and failure means The End anyway. The only other real option would be to have Marcus do it, but remember that he didn't swing from complete distrust to complete trust. He went from complete distrust to "Alright, prove it. Find me a way in."

PS - The rest you explain pretty well, still doesn't sit fantastically with me - but your explanations do help.

I try. It's not the tightest bit of storytelling in the first place, but I don't see it as the complete mess that X-Men 3 was, either. :)

[ISiddiqui]

Oh, about Command:

One of the main reasons they were so gung ho about starting the attack is because THEIR names were on the list of people Skynet was going to kill within with week (you know, the list with Kyle Reese as #1 and John Connor as #2?). They planned the attack in 4 days, so they can win the war before the week is out

[Danny]

Just saw this today.


All good discussion, but the point I don't understand, why didn't skynet kill Reese the first chance they got? He was #1 on their list, so they obviously knew of his importance.