Army orders " NFL draft day" feel good story back to active duty

[muns]

Army orders Lions draft pick Campbell to withdraw - NFL - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-lions-campbellarmy&prov=ap&type=lgns)


I was hoping he would make the team and the story would continue. Looks as though that isnt gonna ever happen now.

[JPhillips]

I didn't agree with the Army allowing him to play, but once he's given clearance it's really shitty to pull it away.

[rjolley]

Yeah, makes no sense to create the rule to create goodwill, then pull the rule when someone actually has a chance to be a goodwill story.

Did Campbell actually have a shot at making the team? The Army may have had to wait another month or so and they would've gotten him back, goodwill intact.

[muns]

Yeah, makes no sense to create the rule to create goodwill, then pull the rule when someone actually has a chance to be a goodwill story.

Did Campbell actually have a shot at making the team? The Army may have had to wait another month or so and they would've gotten him back, goodwill intact.

I dont know much about the Lions except reading about their love for Matt Millen (joke just in case) but Millen's son went to Army with Campbell which is why he got drafted in the first place im guessing. Just off of that alone I think he had a shot at making it

[kcchief19]

Let's be real, the rule was originally created as a marketing tool -- the armed forces hoped to get some recruits in pro sports who could serve as role models and inspire others to join. For that reason, I was fine with the policy -- the armed forces would be using Campbell for the our purpose, and once you join the military that is essentially what you have agreed to do. Campbell was just lucky that the way the Army planned to benefit from him was good for him as well.

But to rip it up the deal after the fact is a crock. The guy in me who respects the uniform really hopes that the jackass responsible for this is some dickwad civvie.

[RomaGoth]

I saw a comment on espn.com from someone blaming Millen for this. True, Millen is a complete idiot, but this was not something he could have predicted. The Army changed their "interpretation" of the rules, and this kid got screwed because of it. Good luck to him and I hope to see him in the NFL in 2009.

[BishopMVP]

I talked to my friend tonight who was Campbell's roomate last year at West Point. In addition to having to find housing and a car at whatever base he's assigned, he also owes back close to $100,000 between agent fees and his Nike Contract. He's getting completely screwed on this deal.

[Lathum]

I wonder if there is any legal recourse he can take.

[RomaGoth]

I talked to my friend tonight who was Campbell's roomate last year at West Point. In addition to having to find housing and a car at whatever base he's assigned, he also owes back close to $100,000 between agent fees and his Nike Contract. He's getting completely screwed on this deal.

Wow didn't know all that. He did get completely screwed. Good luck doing anything about it though against the US government. :mad:

[RainMaker]

The sad thing is that he could have been a phenomenal recruiting tool for the military. But this country is run by dumbshits, so this isn't necessarily a surprise.

[RomaGoth]

The sad thing is that he could have been a phenomenal recruiting tool for the military. But this country is run by dumbshits, so this isn't necessarily a surprise.

:+1:

[fantom1979]

But to rip it up the deal after the fact is a crock. The guy in me who respects the uniform really hopes that the jackass responsible for this is some dickwad civvie.

:+1:

[Raiders Army]

Ain't no civvie:

Army has redefined the Alternative Service Option to include playing professional sports," Navy athletic director Chet Gladchuk has said. "Our coaches are now operating under a significant handicap when recruiting head-to-head with Army. It may not be reflected on the playing field today, but I can guarantee you that it will result in a competitive disadvantage down the road.

The Air Force agreed, saying the academies recruit cadets from the same pool of candidates.

It was the Navy and Air Force. Personally, I see nothing wrong with him being in the NFL. He'll either be at West Point or the Prep School coaching football (being a GA) for a year and then go to OBC. After that, he might have 6 months left before his two years are up. It's ridiculous that the military is doing this. Instead of whining, Annapolis and the Air Force Academy should've done the same thing.

I'm sure that there are a lot of football (and other sports) players at West Point that are freshmen and are stuck there for a year because they thought they had a legitimate shot at the NFL.

[muns]

Ain't no civvie:



It was the Navy and Air Force. Personally, I see nothing wrong with him being in the NFL. He'll either be at West Point or the Prep School coaching football (being a GA) for a year and then go to OBC. After that, he might have 6 months left before his two years are up. It's ridiculous that the military is doing this. Instead of whining, Annapolis and the Air Force Academy should've done the same thing.

I'm sure that there are a lot of football (and other sports) players at West Point that are freshmen and are stuck there for a year because they thought they had a legitimate shot at the NFL.


Wow, For me that makes this even worse, because they think they are gonna loose out on recruits. Man I really feel bad for Campbell.

[Schmidty]

I'm bummed that they did this to him at the last second. I really think he could have made the team on special teams.

Regarding the question of whether he should have been given the opportunity in the first place, I have no opinion.

[gstelmack]

I'm disappointed that folks go to the academies hoping for a pro career rather than serving their country. That takes away a slot from someone who wants to be there for the correct reasons.

[ISiddiqui]

Why can't someone go to do both? You don't think helping recruitment is serving your country?

And who in the Hell goes to West Point or the Naval Academy thinking it'll be a path to the pros?! If they wanted that, a D2 school would even be a better option.

[molson]

Why can't someone go to do both? You don't think helping recruitment is serving your country?

And who in the Hell goes to West Point or the Naval Academy thinking it'll be a path to the pros?! If they wanted that, a D2 school would even be a better option.

All of the service acadamies are D1 programs, Air Force is ranked pretty consistently, and Navy has been in to a bowl game for 5 straight years. They're a huge step above D2, and programs with similar success send talent to the NFL regularly.

I think it's ridiculous that they would even consider allowing students out of their military commitments by making the pros. There's so many downsides to that. Of course, the way they handled this was wrong, they never should have changed the policy to begin with. I'm guessing they had heavy pressure from alumni and the other service academies.

And I don't get the part about owing $100k to Nike and the agent. I'd love to see a news source on that. Maybe there's some kind of standard termination fee in the contract, but I don't see it holding up unless they put some serious money into him already, which is doubtful.

West Point doesn't need any help "recruiting" in terms of its general student body (It's one of the most selective schools in the country). Anybody who tries to get in because some guy got drafted in the 7th round of the NFL draft isn't somebody they want there anyway.

[14ers]

That takes away a slot from someone who wants to be there for the correct reasons.
+1

[Sun Tzu]

Fuck the military.

[RomaGoth]

I'm disappointed that folks go to the academies hoping for a pro career rather than serving their country. That takes away a slot from someone who wants to be there for the correct reasons.

How do we know what his reasons for entering West Point were? Maybe he wanted to be an Army officer and the football thing just kind of happened because...well....he has more talent than the rest of the guys that played on his team. I see no reason why he shouldn't be given the same opportunity as anyone else to be a pro athlete. He shouldn't be penalized because he chose to serve our country.

[Young Drachma]

I don't have a problem with kids at academies playing in the pros. No different than the World Class athlete programs that have always been in place. These guys should get to be part of it. The "free education" thing is a misnomer, because frankly, you could extend their service commitment to be longer on the recruiting end, even making them spend time drilling with a reserve unit if you wanted to.

I don't see any problem with the example of a "military man" who is in the pros. Olympians do it and that's ALL they do and we pay them rank and salary for as long as they're able to do what they do.

But...as usual, a bungheaded policy. I understand why, but...so much for goodwill.

[molson]

How do we know what his reasons for entering West Point were? Maybe he wanted to be an Army officer and the football thing just kind of happened because...well....he has more talent than the rest of the guys that played on his team. I see no reason why he shouldn't be given the same opportunity as anyone else to be a pro athlete. He shouldn't be penalized because he chose to serve our country.

I agree that he must have entered because he wanted to be an Army officer, and that he didn't take a spot away from anyone. But I don't see how he's being penalized. He committed to the army. He can't be a pro athlete, doctor, lawyer, policeman, teacher, etc, until he's fulfilled that commitment. That's part of the deal of getting into that particular academic institution. Making an exception for athletes is silly. If you were making exceptions (and I realize that some do exist), why not use them for something less trivial than sports?

[MrIllini]

The baseball Cardinals had a Navy guy they drafted ordered to report. Name escapes me at the moment, but I don't have a huge problem with this.

Yeah, jerking his chain about releasing him then ordering him back is bogus - but he knew what he was in for when he agreed to let the Army (or any service branch) pay to educate him.

David Robinson served his tour, right?

[molson]

No different than the World Class athlete programs that have always been in place.

But do you draw a line somewhere - I don't know if he's a "World Class/Olympic" caliber athlete. What if a guy gets on a practice squad, or the arena league. A program of the caliber of say, Navy, could get 7-8+ guys a year with a pro football option somewhere.

If the NFL draft is the cutoff, I'm not sure I want to put the question of who serves/who doesn't in the hands of NFL GMs. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

[molson]

David Robinson served his tour, right?

Right, because he was big-time, and not just a novelty/gimmick, the Spurs were more than happy to wait for him.

Part of joining the military is putting the rest of your life on hold, not sticking around until you get a better job offer.

[RomaGoth]

I agree that he must have entered because he wanted to be an Army officer, and that he didn't take a spot away from anyone. But I don't see how he's being penalized. He committed to the army. He can't be a pro athlete, doctor, lawyer, policeman, teacher, etc, until he's fulfilled that commitment. That's part of the deal of getting into that particular academic institution. Making an exception for athletes is silly. If you were making exceptions (and I realize that some do exist), why not use them for something less trivial than sports?

He should most definitely complete his commitment to the Army. That is not my argument. I do not see why he can't play in the NFL and complete his military obligation at the same time, with him and the Lions (or whatever team owns his rights) understanding that he could get called into action at any given time. I think pulling the carpet out from under him like the Army did was bogus.

[MrIllini]

I wonder if Campbell was on track to make the Lions? Could this be a face-saving measure of sorts?

He wasn't going to make the team, so the Army recalls him?

I doubt it, but the conspiracy theorists out there could have a field day. :)

[RomaGoth]

Fuck the military.

I am curious if you would say that during an invasion or a terrorist attack. I don't agree with everything the military does, but to say something like this is just absurd. You have managed to dishonor all of the people who died for this country in the last 200+ years. Maybe I am biased because I served, but this comment pisses me off. Rather than get boxed I will shut up now.

[molson]

He should most definitely complete his commitment to the Army. That is not my argument. I do not see why he can't play in the NFL and complete his military obligation at the same time, with him and the Lions (or whatever team owns his rights) understanding that he could get called into action at any given time. I think pulling the carpet out from under him like the Army did was bogus.

I don't have the knowledge to know exactly what "military commitment" entails, but I always assumed that post-West Point, it wasn't something you could do part time (like the reserves), it was your career, especially during wartime. I could be wrong though.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I wonder if Campbell was on track to make the Lions? Could this be a face-saving measure of sorts?

He wasn't going to make the team, so the Army recalls him?

I doubt it, but the conspiracy theorists out there could have a field day. :)

It's impossible to say. The Lions just started training camp today, so Campbell never even got on the field to make an impression, besides the early OTAs and the rookie camp, some of which he couldn't attend because of school obligations.

[RomaGoth]

I don't have the knowledge to know exactly what "military commitment" entails, but I always assumed that post-West Point, it wasn't something you could do part time (like the reserves), it was your career, especially during wartime. I could be wrong though.

You are correct in that it is a full time job. What they should do is have him serve after his NFL career is over (unlikely), or better yet, let him out after half of his time in served. The thing we all need to remember is that we are not all equal. If he is better at football than the other guys in West Point/Naval Academy, then he should be allowed to pursue that career path. Those who strive to succeed should be allowed to succeed without being forced to be average.

[Sun Tzu]

I am curious if you would say that during an invasion or a terrorist attack. I don't agree with everything the military does, but to say something like this is just absurd. You have managed to dishonor all of the people who died for this country in the last 200+ years. Maybe I am biased because I served, but this comment pisses me off. Rather than get boxed I will shut up now.

Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

[molson]

Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Emerson would have made a lousy solider.

[RomaGoth]

Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

While I can respect where you are coming from, I doubt those that try to kill us everyday would agree. The real world involves protecting yourself from harm by people who want to kill you, your children, and your way of life.

[molson]

Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

That'd be 100% true, if only we didn't have human nature to contend with.

So as long as we're in reality, I'm extremely grateful to anyone who makes this kind of sacrifice for us.

It's not just what they do in service, it's the fact that because they volunteered, others don't have to be enlisted. Despite what Michael Moore thinks when he goes around trying to get Senators to "sign their kids up", the US military is a voluntary institution. That's what makes people who take part so amazing.

[gstelmack]

And who in the Hell goes to West Point or the Naval Academy thinking it'll be a path to the pros?! If they wanted that, a D2 school would even be a better option.

I don't know, but the Navy and Air Force Academies sure seem to think that this affects recruiting, which could only happen for those who think it's a stepping stone to the Pros.

The military was wrong to reverse on a commitment they'd already made, but I don't think it's a policy that should be there in the first place.

As for Sun Tzu's comments, well, enjoy your Utopia. I for one live in a world with lots of evil folks who would just love to kill me and take everything I own, and am thankful every time that there are men and women willing to risk their lives (not just in the military, but police, fire, and other groups) to help ensure that I can participate in raging philosophical debates on internet message boards...

[RomaGoth]

That'd be 100% true, if only we didn't have human nature to contend with.

So as long as we're in reality, I'm extremely grateful to anyone who makes this kind of sacrifice for us.

It's not just what they do in service, it's the fact that because they volunteered, others don't have to be enlisted. Despite what Michael Moore thinks when he goes around trying to get Senators to "sign their kids up", the US military is a voluntary institution. That's what makes people who take part so amazing.

This is for both you and gstelmack.

:+1:

[RomaGoth]

Can we get rid of the +1 smilie?

:(

+1

[Fidatelo]

Am I the only one that feels odd reading "fuck the military" and peace quotes from a guy who takes his name from the author of "The Art of War"? Or do I just not know enough about the real Sun Tzu?

[Sun Tzu]

If people continue to make the excuse that it's human nature to kill eachother, we're all fucked.

[Commo_Soldier]

I have not really seen anything stated on this but I think we should first be concerned with the Soldier involved. Personally I believe he does not mind having to do a two year tour and then trying to make the team. I could be completly wrong but most cadets that go to West Point or any other military academy are gung-ho about the military and want to serve for at least the first two years. If this is the case from him it should not be as big a deal, but still not appropriate. In the end the Army did screw up by not letting them know two weeks ago, but as Campbell knew and all Soldiers, Airmen, Marines, and Seamen know once you sign a contract with the Military you are their property until they decide they want to terminate the contract, they violate your contract, or your contract has expired.

[RomaGoth]

If people continue to make the excuse that it's human nature to kill eachother, we're all fucked.

It's not an excuse, it is reality. Unfortunate, but true. Take a look at the entire history of mankind. How many sequences of relative peace have we endured throughout time? Not many. Somewhere, someone is killing someone else. Or trying to. :(

[duckman]

Fuck the military.
You're welcome.

Signed,
Kevin Heath
SSgt, USAF 1997-2004

[TroyF]

The baseball Cardinals had a Navy guy they drafted ordered to report. Name escapes me at the moment, but I don't have a huge problem with this.

Yeah, jerking his chain about releasing him then ordering him back is bogus - but he knew what he was in for when he agreed to let the Army (or any service branch) pay to educate him.

David Robinson served his tour, right?

Actually, no, David did not serve his tour. He served 2 years of the 5 year commitment and was let out because they said his height prevented him from doing a lot of jobs. He served in the reserves, but was really nothing more than a recruiting tool after that.

[gstelmack]

If people continue to make the excuse that it's human nature to kill eachother, we're all fucked.

Well, we've got the Peace Corps to go with it. Exactly how do you plan to convince all those folks out there to stop trying to kill us? Heck, how do you plan to stop criminals inside this country from killing folks? And we're not necessarily saying "human nature", as obviously it's not natural for lots of us, but there are plenty of screwed up people with a warped sense of reality that are more than happy to go after defenseless folks.

But please, share your great plan for enlightening the planet and stopping the killing.

[rkmsuf]

But please, share your great plan for enlightening the planet and stopping the killing.


cuddle parties

[samifan24]

Fuck the military.

What a ridiculously obnoxious statement.

[ISiddiqui]

What a ridiculously obnoxious statement.

Why? They are worthy of being fucked specifically here. It's a moronic decision. What, we have to agree with everything they do?

[ISiddiqui]

I don't see people saying that when they exclaim "Fuck the government" or similar sentiments.

[RomaGoth]

Why? They are worthy of being fucked specifically here. It's a moronic decision. What, we have to agree with everything they do?

I don't think that was his point. I made it clear in one of my posts that I don't agree with everything they do either, and I was in the military. The point here is that saying "fuck the military" is like taking a shit on all of the people that have ever served and/or died for the freedom we have right now to waste our workday on a message board.

I encourage Sun Tzu to read up on military history, and better yet to take a tour through some of the ships in Pearl Harbor. Also, the tomb of the unknown soldier is pretty intense.

A lot of people died so you could say "fuck the military".

[ISiddiqui]

The point here is that saying "fuck the military" is like taking a shit on all of the people that have ever served and/or died for the freedom we have right now to waste our workday on a message board.

No, it really isn't. It's like taking a shit on the people who made this decision... who do, btw, represent the military in their authority.

I should get all huffy when someone says "Fuck the government" or something similar. Just to see the response.

[molson]

I don't see people saying that when they exclaim "Fuck the government" or similar sentiments.

Well, if someone says "fuck the government", they're usually not referring to school teachers or firefighters. They're actually usually only referring to the current presidential administration.

Sun Tzu is clearly saying "fuck you" to the entire military. You don't have to agree with everything the military does, but others also have the right to criticize you for making statements like that. Nobody's going to jail over any of these comments.

[st.cronin]

Speaking as a veteran, I take molson's point of view. I mean, I'm not that worked up about it, but, unless Sun Tzu wants to clarify his statement, I'm taking it as he just gave me the finger.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, if someone says "fuck the government", they're usually not referring to school teachers or firefighters. They're actually usually only referring to the current presidential administration.

Sun Tzu is clearly saying "fuck you" to the entire military. You don't have to agree with everything the military does, but others also have the right to criticize you for making statements like that. Nobody's going to jail over any of these comments.

Wait a second. So when someone says "Fuck the government", he's obviously not refering to government workers, but when he's saying "fuck the military" he is obviously saying fuck you to all military personnel?

BULLSHIT. You just want to feel offended and be able to say "fuck the government" as well.

[Sun Tzu]

My statement wasn't directed specifically at everybody who served in the Military. Hell my grandfather was a jew who served in WWII. It's moreso at the overall idea that the only way to keep peace is to kill people.

[RomaGoth]

No, it really isn't. It's like taking a shit on the people who made this decision... who do, btw, represent the military in their authority.

I should get all huffy when someone says "Fuck the government" or something similar. Just to see the response.

You obviously have never served in the military. The leadership that represents the military is NOT the military. The real military is the men and women out in the fields and the desert and the swamps who are risking their lives every day so we can be free. The leaders, most of them anyway, are so far detached from reality that lumping them with the military is like grouping hollywood stars with mainstream society.

Saying "fuck the military" and/or "fuck the government" are in and of themselves irrelevant statements that offer nothing in a rational debate.

[molson]

Wait a second. So when someone says "Fuck the government", he's obviously not refering to government workers, but when he's saying "fuck the military" he is obviously saying fuck you to all military personnel?



Exactly.

If Sun Tzu wanted to clarify he could.

It's also important to remember that the government decides what the military does.

[rkmsuf]

You obviously have never served in the military. The leadership that represents the military is NOT the military. The real military is the men and women out in the fields and the desert and the swamps who are risking their lives every day so we can be free. The leaders, most of them anyway, are so far detached from reality that lumping them with the military is like grouping hollywood stars with mainstream society.

Saying "fuck the military" and/or "fuck the government" are in and of themselves irrelevant statements that offer nothing in a rational debate.

Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-galunga

[st.cronin]

In other words, "fuck militarism."

[ISiddiqui]

You obviously have never served in the military. The leadership that represents the military is NOT the military. The real military is the men and women out in the fields and the desert and the swamps who are risking their lives every day so we can be free. The leaders, most of them anyway, are so far detached from reality that lumping them with the military is like grouping hollywood stars with mainstream society.

Saying "fuck the military" and/or "fuck the government" are in and of themselves irrelevant statements that offer nothing in a rational debate.

The leadership is what is representated to the rest of society as "the military". Just as the Cabinet is represented to the rest of society as "the government". Anyone thinking they automatically mean that you are slamming the ordinary soldier or government worker are being stupid, IMO. Or easily offended. In which case, get the panties out of your crotches.

[Subby]

My statement wasn't directed specifically at everybody who served in the Military. Hell my grandfather was a jew who served in WWII. It's moreso at the overall idea that the only way to keep peace is to kill people.
Then try saying that in the first place, dumbass.

[ISiddiqui]

Exactly.

Bullshit.

Fuck all you easily offended types :p. Worse than PC liberals.

[molson]

BULLSHIT. You just want to feel offended and be able to say "fuck the government" as well.

I actually don't say either because it's a childish way to talk that accomplishes nothing.

[Sun Tzu]

In other words, "fuck militarism."

Yes...this is much better.

Fuck Militarism.

[molson]

Bullshit.

Fuck all you easily offended types :p. Worse than PC liberals.

I'm not offended - but I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to express disagreement.

[ISiddiqui]

I actually don't say either because it's a childish way to talk that accomplishes nothing.

But you are perfectly ok with people saying "fuck the government", as you'd like the rationalize it away in a way inconsistent with how you see "fuck the military".

[RomaGoth]

My statement wasn't directed specifically at everybody who served in the Military. Hell my grandfather was a jew who served in WWII. It's moreso at the overall idea that the only way to keep peace is to kill people.

Then come up with something more concrete than "fuck the military". As St.Cronin said, I feel like you just gave all military members, past and present, the finger.

Is there more than one way to keep peace? Of course there is. But when it comes down to kill or be killed, I will choose the former. Some people you just can't reason with. The Nazis. Al-Queda. Just to name a few.

Of course, we could disband our military. But then we would be Canada. (just kidding for you Canadians).:D

[st.cronin]

The leadership is what is representated to the rest of society as "the military". Just as the Cabinet is represented to the rest of society as "the government". Anyone thinking they automatically mean that you are slamming the ordinary soldier or government worker are being stupid, IMO. Or easily offended. In which case, get the panties out of your crotches.

There are plenty of people who say things similar to "fuck the military" who mean "fuck each and every enlisted soldier." I guess you've never met them.

[Sun Tzu]

I work in the 'IT' field. If someone said "fuck 'IT'..." I most certainly wouldn't get offended. Sure this is a slightly scaled down analogy, but I think it still works the same way.

[RomaGoth]

I work in the 'IT' field. If someone said "fuck 'IT'..." I most certainly wouldn't get offended. Sure this is a slightly scaled down analogy, but I think it still works the same way.

Depends on if you risk your life everyday or not. C'mon, seriously?

[samifan24]

Why? They are worthy of being fucked specifically here. It's a moronic decision. What, we have to agree with everything they do?

Sure, the Army's decision in the case is stupid. Just because some higher ups make a stupid decision does not justify damning the military as a whole. This single, isolated incident does not negate all the good that our men and women in the military do for us on a daily basis.

[Raiders Army]

I work in the 'IT' field. If someone said "fuck 'IT'..." I most certainly wouldn't get offended. Sure this is a slightly scaled down analogy, but I think it still works the same way.

Personally I say "fuck it" all the time. My buddy asked me if I wanted to blow off work and get some beers. I said "fuck it" and went.

Please don't get offended.

[Greyroofoo]

Just to thread-jack the thread-jack,

Anyone think the Lions could possibly get a compensatory pick for this?

[Sun Tzu]

My one and only point is that not every single person who follows the word "fuck" with government, or military, or anything in the same vein is speaking specifically about you. Don't take it personal...unless you want to take it personal. If that's the case, then that's your problem.

[Raiders Army]

Sorry, had to get that other post in there before anyone else.

My statement wasn't directed specifically at everybody who served in the Military. Hell my grandfather was a jew who served in WWII. It's moreso at the overall idea that the only way to keep peace is to kill people.

FWIW, you may want to read about SASO and phase IV of MCO. The goals for the military aren't to kill people....conversely, it's about helping the local government.

The military also helps out with natural disasters (Hello Dolly) (National Guard).

[ISiddiqui]

No one in the IT field, and to a large degree GOVERNMENT, are making sacrifices and risking their lives for others.

Seriously... what the fuck does that matter? I don't think your organization should be shielded from criticism simply because you risk your life in the military. Good for you and all, but I think, say, working in government helping people is worthy of just as much respect and immunity of criticism.

[RomaGoth]

Just to thread-jack the thread-jack,

Anyone think the Lions could possibly get a compensatory pick for this?

Let's hope not, Matt Millen would screw that up too.

[ISiddiqui]

Sure, the Army's decision in the case is stupid. Just because some higher ups make a stupid decision does not justify damning the military as a whole. This single, isolated incident does not negate all the good that our men and women in the military do for us on a daily basis.

Just because some higher ups in the government make a stupid decision does not justify damning the government as a whole. But no one thinks they mean that it does when someone says "Fuck the government" after something like FEMA messing up in Katrina.

[RomaGoth]

Just because some higher ups in the government make a stupid decision does not justify damning the government as a whole. But no one thinks they mean that it does when someone says "Fuck the government" after something like FEMA messing up in Katrina.

Wouldn't you just say "fuck FEMA" or "fuck the leadership of FEMA" or something to that extent?

[BrianD]

I think the real enemy here is laziness. 'Fuck the military'? How about 'fuck the military folks who think we need to start wars to ensure peace'? How about 'fuck the government workers who messed up after Katrina? If you cast a wide net, don't be surprised if you catch more than one fish.

[RomaGoth]

My one and only point is that not every single person who follows the word "fuck" with government, or military, or anything in the same vein is speaking specifically about you. Don't take it personal...unless you want to take it personal. If that's the case, then that's your problem.

The problem with our society now is that only certain groups are allowed to take things personally.

In this case, I am taking your comments personally because I am a veteran and served this country. I feel that you dishonored me and everyone else who has been in any branch of military service. I am not taking it personally because I am a pussy, or because I just like to argue. I want something more substantial than "fuck the military" in order to validate how you feel about war and peace and all that good stuff.

[ISiddiqui]

Wouldn't you just say "fuck FEMA" or "fuck the leadership of FEMA" or something to that extent?

No one really does that. Well, every once in a while they may say "fuck FEMA", but no one says "fuck the leadership of... " unless they a naming someone (like "fuck Brownie")

[ISiddiqui]

The problem with our society now is that only certain groups are allowed to take things personally.

In this case, I am taking your comments personally because I am a veteran and served this country. I feel that you dishonored me and everyone else who has been in any branch of military service. I am not taking it personally because I am a pussy, or because I just like to argue. I want something more substantial than "fuck the military" in order to validate how you feel about war and peace and all that good stuff.

Ah... Patriotic Correctness.

[Pumpy Tudors]

FUCK MICHIGAN.

I mean FUCK DETROIT.

I mean FUCK DETROIT PRO SPORTS.

I mean FUCK THE DETROIT LIONS.

I mean FUCK MATT MILLEN.

I mean FUCK MATT MILLEN IN HIS BOOTY.

I mean FUCK MATT MILLEN IN HIS BOOTY WITH A HOT WHEELS CAR.

I mean FUCK MATT MILLEN IN HIS BOOTY WITH A RED HOT WHEELS CAR.

[rkmsuf]

I prefer the term "make love" to "fuck" or "screw".

Make love to the military.

[Karlifornia]

SO LET THE VOICE OF FREEDOM, SING OUT TO THIS LAND

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY

[RomaGoth]

FUCK MICHIGAN.

I mean FUCK DETROIT.

I mean FUCK DETROIT PRO SPORTS.

I mean FUCK THE DETROIT LIONS.

I mean FUCK MATT MILLEN.

I mean FUCK MATT MILLEN IN HIS BOOTY.

I mean FUCK MATT MILLEN IN HIS BOOTY WITH A HOT WHEELS CAR.

I mean FUCK MATT MILLEN IN HIS BOOTY WITH A RED HOT WHEELS CAR.

I think he prefers BLUE HOT WHEELS, but not completely sure if that is true.

[MikeVic]

I prefer the term "make love" to "fuck" or "screw".

Make love to the military.

plow.

[Karlifornia]

Fuck the military? Caleb Campbell says it's the other way around

[rkmsuf]

plow.

but of course. plowing the military is a big job. couple of generals might prove difficult.

[RomaGoth]

This thread has not disappointed.

[Sun Tzu]

The problem with our society now is that only certain groups are allowed to take things personally.

In this case, I am taking your comments personally because I am a veteran and served this country. I feel that you dishonored me and everyone else who has been in any branch of military service. I am not taking it personally because I am a pussy, or because I just like to argue. I want something more substantial than "fuck the military" in order to validate how you feel about war and peace and all that good stuff.

Yeah, I got that. That's why I tried to fledge out what I said a little bit. No hard feelings on this side.

[ISiddiqui]

Fuck the military != criticism

What, you think he's making a proposition?

[RomaGoth]

Yeah, I got that. That's why I tried to fledge out what I said a little bit. No hard feelings on this side.

None here either. Just watch out for Pumpy. He likes to sneak up behind you with a lighter and a copy of the last season of Golden Girls.

[molson]

I think it's worth pointing out that every single person who has posted about thinks the army was wrong for pulling this switch. Nobody's sticking up for the army on this and nobody is trying to say they shouldn't be criticized.

ISiddiqui's trying to turn it into a "immunity from criticism" angle and that's not what this is.

[st.cronin]

I think it's worth pointing out that every single person who has posted about thinks the army was wrong for pulling this switch. Nobody's sticking up for the army on this and nobody is trying to say they shouldn't be criticized.

ISiddiqui's trying to turn it into a "immunity from criticism" angle and that's not what this is.

Would you please quit trying to defend the army.

[Fidatelo]

Can I request that SkyDork change Sun Tzu's name? This is getting ridiculous, it's like someone with the name Gandhi running around saying that the US should be bombing the fuck out of the middle east.

Actually, maybe that should be his new name, Gandhi. Someone needs to make this happen.

[Pumpy Tudors]

None here either. Just watch out for Pumpy. He likes to sneak up behind you with a lighter and a copy of the last season of Golden Girls.
Well, Estelle Getty did die this week. Consider it a tribute.

[RedKingGold]

Fuck the military.

And if you don't like it, this is an internet message board, so kiss my hairy ass.

[Karlifornia]

Fuck the military.

And if you don't like it, this is an internet message board, so kiss my hairy ass.

Welcome to Hollywood, soldier.

[ISiddiqui]

ISiddiqui's trying to turn it into a "immunity from criticism" angle and that's not what this is.

And you are trying to set it up so collective curses can be showered on other agencies without much uproar, but heaven forbid if its the military!

[molson]

And you are trying to set it up so collective curses can be showered on other agencies without much uproar, but heaven forbid if its the military!

I support your constitutional right to fuck the military or the government.

And mine to point out that it's a pretty childish thing to say (and that you do personally impact more people than you might intend to). A solider considers himself more of the "military" than a teacher does "the government". That's all. Criticize the government and military all you want - but don't get all pissy if people disagree with you, and don't claim that they're making some kind of immunity argument.

[miami_fan]

Wow did this thread go way off track! Back to the original story if I may.

First, I disagreed with the rule change in the first place. But once the rule change was in place, I think the Army should have allowed him to play with the understanding that his military commitments override any that he had with the Lions. If that prevented him from playing, oh well. However, that would have been in keeping with any other military member who wants to have an job outside of his military one.

On a side note, this leads me to question why the Army decided to revise this policy once again and why the other academies began bitching about it all of a sudden. According to the article. the DOD policy has been in place since 1994. I am assuming that the Army policy has been interpreted that way ever since.

[ISiddiqui]

Criticize the government and military all you want - but don't get all pissy if people disagree with you, and don't claim that they're making some kind of immunity argument.

I hope you treat Political Correctness the same way you treat Patriotic Correctness.

[molson]

On a side note, this leads me to question why the Army decided to revise this policy once again and why the other academies began bitching about it all of a sudden. According to the article. the DOD policy has been in place since 1994. I am assuming that the Army policy has been interpreted that way ever since.

I'm surprised this hasn't come up more often, there's definitely been other service academy guys who have been in the NFL.

I saw this on Wiki for Kyle Eckel, who played at Navy

"Eckel was placed on the Reserve/Military list on September 7, 2005 - just days after being claimed by the Miami Dolphins. He continued to serve the Navy until October 31, 2006. A spokesman for the Navy described the separation as an involuntary "administrative separation"[1] from the service, and Eckel told the Miami Herald that he "was given the opportunity to submit a letter of resignation, which was accepted."

The Dolphins received a roster exemption from the league for Eckel in 2006 (so he could practice with the team, so long as he was not added to the active roster). He was not activated during the season, and was an exclusive rights free agent in the 2007 offseason. He was re-signed to a one-year contract on March 19, 2007, but released on September 1 during final cuts."

So there's a Reserve/Military list, and Eckel spent a year on it before quietly getting out of the rest of his commitment, about 1 1/2 years after he graducated from the Naval Academy.

Another one's Bryce Fisher, who played at Air Force. He was drafted in 1999, but didn't start his career until 2001 - I couldn't quickly find if that was because of military commitments or because he was on the practice squad or something.

I don't see why the Lions couldn't sign Campbell and put him on the reserve/military list - if they really wanted him, and this isn't just some attempt at a feel-good training camp story.

[Galaxy]

I prefer the term "make love" to "fuck" or "screw".

Make love to the military.

Is it Pumpy. Does he fuck, screw, or make love?

[JediKooter]

What if the military fucked you? You think anyone would be offended? Or be pleasured?

[RomaGoth]

Fuck the military.

And if you don't like it, this is an internet message board, so kiss my hairy ass.

You missed it by about 5 hours.

[BishopMVP]

On a side note, this leads me to question why the Army decided to revise this policy once again and why the other academies began bitching about it all of a sudden. According to the article. the DOD policy has been in place since 1994. I am assuming that the Army policy has been interpreted that way ever since.I believe the Army re-interpreted it sometime in 2007 to help recruiting.
And I don't get the part about owing $100k to Nike and the agent. I'd love to see a news source on that. Maybe there's some kind of standard termination fee in the contract, but I don't see it holding up unless they put some serious money into him already, which is doubtful.I just saw a text message from Campbell listing those issues and heard the 100k figure from my friend. It seemed a little off to me too. The way I figure it is he got somewhere around 20-25k from an agency that paid for traveling back and forth between pre-draft workouts and then Lions camps that was expected to be paid back from the contract. Then he signed a shoe deal with Nike and probably got money up front from that. If I see my friend this weekend I'll try to get more details.

I can guarantee that Campbell did not go to West Point intending to play in the NFL. He was intending to be an officer, and would have been fine going that course of action. When the opportunity to play in the NFL was presented him by West Point and the Lions, he went for it, and he's just pissed off he spent 6 months working towards that goal for nothing. He would have been completely fine serving his commitment and not complaining if they hadn't changed the policy last year.

[molson]

I can guarantee that Campbell did not go to West Point intending to play in the NFL. He was intending to be an officer, and would have been fine going that course of action. When the opportunity to play in the NFL was presented him by West Point and the Lions, he went for it, and he's just pissed off he spent 6 months working towards that goal for nothing. He would have been completely fine serving his commitment and not complaining if they hadn't changed the policy last year.

Hopefully he's just venting to a friend about how much all this sucks, and once the smoke clears he can talk to an attorney/realize he'd not going to be liable for anything.