The OFFICIAL 2008-09 NHL Playoffs Thread

[sterlingice]

What a pretty goal in the Hawks-Canucks series. Top corner- if you're Luongo, what could you do to block that?

SI

[muns]

What the hell was Hal Gill trying to do? Cut through his own crease, behind his goalie, at a crucial point in the game?

great fucking question....... Its not like he is a little dude either. That was a costly mistake, and one a vet shouldnt make.....

sigh..... game 7 here we come

[Suburban Rhythm]

Boucher needs to tie up Steckel if he's letting him back in that close. Fleury could only hope it bounces off of him, no time to react.

And the Hal Gill maneuver...ugh. He played really well when he first came over from Toronto last year, but now....too big and slow and clumsy. Especially when standing behind the goalie.

Varlamov is stealing this series. Sak had it, shots were 18-5 at the end of one period, including about a minute of 5-on-3. Pens needed to bury the Caps early there.

Just frustrating.

But, it was inevitable that this would go 7. And is anyone doubting we are looking at OT?

[JPhillips]

I really hope both teams can keep enough players together to keep this rivalry going. I'd love to see Ovie and Crosby still dueling in the playoffs a decade from now. They may not be the best teams in the NHL, but I don't think there's more entertaining hockey right now than Caps/Pens.

[Fidatelo]

I love that it went 7. I sort of kind of want the Pens to win, just because I think the Hurricanes would wipe the floor with the Washington Ovechkins, but in reality I don't really care. I'm just hoping for a close one, with Crosby and Ovie continuing to trade punches!

Also, after hammering Malkin after he cost the Pens the first two games, I have to give him credit for playing well since game 3. With Crosby and Ovie basically playing to a draw, he and Varlamov seem to be the X-factors.

[Wolfpack]

I think the NHL needs to think about moving the Hurricanes to Hamilton, if only so Wolfpack can stop living a life of misery 6 months of the year. I've never seen a guy get so down about his team all the time. I swear the 'Canes could be up 3 games to 0 in the Stanley cup finals and dude would find a way to be worried that they are holding the weakest 3-0 series lead in sports history.

You know, I actually laughed when you said this. :D

[wade moore]

Just curious..

Multiple people seem to have mentioned the Caps being a weak team..

Like I said, I don't follow hockey at ALL - weren't they the #2 team in their conference? How can everyone think they are such a weak team if so?

[samifan24]

Just curious..

Multiple people seem to have mentioned the Caps being a weak team..

Like I said, I don't follow hockey at ALL - weren't they the #2 team in their conference? How can everyone think they are such a weak team if so?

I haven't seen much of the Washington-Pittsburgh series but if I were to guess, I would say that some people call Washington a weak team because their weakest link during the regular season was in goal and their blueline isn't exactly the best defensively. The team has plenty of offense but can get in trouble on defense, as evidenced by their 2.93 team GAA in the regular season (tied with Detroit for the worst number amongst all playoff teams). My own impression of Washington was that they simply outscored everyone in the regular season, as they were 3rd in the league in goals for behind only Detroit and Boston.

[Wolfpack]

Just curious..

Multiple people seem to have mentioned the Caps being a weak team..

Like I said, I don't follow hockey at ALL - weren't they the #2 team in their conference? How can everyone think they are such a weak team if so?

I think a lot of it has to do with a couple of things: that they seem like they're Ovechkin and a bunch of supporting players with uncertain goaltending (though Varmalov has done his best to rectify that last issue), and that while good in the regular season, they're not a battle-tested playoff team, especially when compared to the Penguins, who reached the SCF last year against Detroit while Washington got dropped in the first round including losing Game Seven at home. It also doesn't help that Washington comes out of the Southeast Division, which has a poor reputation.

[BishopMVP]

Any comments on the Walker-Ward incident, with the suspension being overturned? Between that and the slash on Chara, should be an interesting and feisty game 6 at least.

[samifan24]

Any comments on the Walker-Ward incident, with the suspension being overturned? Between that and the slash on Chara, should be an interesting and feisty game 6 at least.

Yeah, it is ridiculous that Walker won't be suspended. You sucker punch a guy who doesn't even have his gloves off and don't get suspended? What is that?

[bhlloy]

Just amazed at the Walker decision. Campbell has officially gone over the line from being biased/inconsistent/too lenient with skill players to WTFville with this one... and Walker has a bit of a rap sheet as well. It just makes absolutely no sense on any level at all.

It's a sucker punch on a third man in that seriously injured the other player, in the playoffs on national TV, and the guy that did it is no angel and isn't somebody that sells any tickets at all. And, the rules call for a suspension. He didn't even need to hand down one, he could have just gone with the refs call on the ice (which was 100% right). Just batshit insane.

[Wolfpack]

I'm also a bit surprised about the suspension being overturned, as well. The only thing I can possibly think of with regard to overturning the suspension was that Ward was overheard goading Walker or Cullen into it and therefore somehow that gave the wiggle room to say that Walker thought he was getting into a fight with Ward. I'm not saying this is true, but it's about all I can come up with. The other alternative would be, as others have mentioned, that the NHL officials are setting it aside for maniacal/selfish/cynical/stupid/less-kind-adjective reasons. I choose "selfish with a dash of cynical" because the league was probably making a calculated assumption that the Pens/Caps series could be over tonight and they needed something juicy to keep eyeballs on the TV for the remaining series while they went to their conclusions.

[Dr. Sak]

And the Hal Gill maneuver...ugh. He played really well when he first came over from Toronto last year, but now....too big and slow and clumsy. Especially when standing behind the goalie.

He's a pussified version of Derian Hatcher.

[samifan24]

I wonder if Maurice will start Walker so Thornton or Lucic will fight him after the puck drops and get it over with.

[Maple Leafs]

So I went to bed after Sundin scored in the third to make it 4-3 Canucks. Was that the final, or did they add an empy netter too?

[samifan24]

So I went to bed after Sundin scored in the third to make it 4-3 Canucks. Was that the final, or did they add an empy netter too?

7-5 White Sox.

[gstelmack]

I'm also a bit surprised about the suspension being overturned, as well. The only thing I can possibly think of with regard to overturning the suspension was that Ward was overheard goading Walker or Cullen into it and therefore somehow that gave the wiggle room to say that Walker thought he was getting into a fight with Ward. I'm not saying this is true, but it's about all I can come up with. The other alternative would be, as others have mentioned, that the NHL officials are setting it aside for maniacal/selfish/cynical/stupid/less-kind-adjective reasons. I choose "selfish with a dash of cynical" because the league was probably making a calculated assumption that the Pens/Caps series could be over tonight and they needed something juicy to keep eyeballs on the TV for the remaining series while they went to their conclusions.

The quote from Walker was something along the lines of feeling like he was in an altercation. Ward got tied up with Cullen, Walker came over to help out, Ward grabbed him and the two started, but for whatever reason Ward stopped while Walker was throwing his gloves off. I did not see it live, but when I saw the replay all I could think was "Why the heck is Ward just standing there?". I'm not up on the current hockey "rules" for fighting, so no comment on the suspension itself, I have no clue what should / should not happen. I've got to believe it all centers on what was said between Ward/Cullen/Walker in the scrum.

Ah, here we go:

"Based on what was said on the ice as I was dropping my gloves, it was my understanding that I was engaged in an altercation," Walker said in a statement issued by the team.

I also agree with Rutherford and am surprised it took this long for something to blow up between these teams:

Rutherford said the incident was "clearly brought on by them," saying he felt the Hurricanes had taken shots from Boston players throughout the series,

Happy to see someone on the Canes stand up, whether or not it deserves a suspension.

[gstelmack]

Detailed comments from Jim Rutherford are here: Rutherford speaks out on Walker ruling - WRALSportsFan.com (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/hurricanes/blogpost/5126937/).

[DeToxRox]

I say Washington is a weak team because the division they played in was the weakest in the NHL and they feasted on that. But mostly they have a very average defense for a playoff team. They have some depth at forward with Backstrom, Semin, etc, but their D is very scary. Varlamov seems solid in net but he is still 21, and though Cam Ward proved age doesn't matter, it's still rare such a young kid can will a team to a Cup.

If Ovechkin doesn't play out of his mind Washington is not going to have a shot in any series, which is why I liken him to Bron in his first NBA Finals. And even if he does play well, if they matchup vs a team like Detroit with all their depth and experience, it'll be very hard for them to overcome that.

[wade moore]

Thanks for the feedback on the Caps question guys. I really honestly have no idea bout the NHL, but I'm finding watching some Caps games in the playoffs to be pretty exciting.

[watravaler]

Was in Chicago for Game 6 of the series...just WOW...best hockey game I've ever seen in person. Of course, it helps that the Hawks finally have a legit Stanley Cup contender on the ice, but I digress. The third period was insane, Vancouver took 2 leads, and the Hawks storm back literally moments later each time. Pat Kane and Jon Toews are amazing, and both are under 21! Dynasty?!? Whatever the case, the future is as bright as it has ever been for hockey in Chicago, the next 10-15 years are going to be great.

[Fidatelo]

10-15 years? A lot can happen in a decade...

[samifan24]

I would call Walker the third man in during the altercation between Ward and Cullen but what do I know? I only saw him skate over in between two players engaged with each other and sucker punch one of them in the face. If that's not a third man in, I don't know what Walker would have to do to deserve one.

[Maple Leafs]

If that's not a third man in, I don't know what Walker would have to do to deserve one.
I don't think the concept of "third man in" applies unless the other two guys get a fighting major. It has to be third man in to an actual fight for the automatic penalty to kick in.

[gstelmack]

I would call Walker the third man in during the altercation between Ward and Cullen but what do I know? I only saw him skate over in between two players engaged with each other and sucker punch one of them in the face. If that's not a third man in, I don't know what Walker would have to do to deserve one.

Where was the sucker punch? I must be missing something, because the only punch Walker throws with his gloves off is while Ward is staring right at him after chickening out.

Given all I hear from the die-hard NHL fans about fighting around here and how good it is for the NHL, I'm surprised more people aren't attacking Ward for trying to pick a fight with Cullen (who as Rutherford points out has been in like all of 2 fights his entire career) and then trying to back off as soon as Walker bails Cullen out...

[Logan]

Where was the sucker punch? I must be missing something, because the only punch Walker throws with his gloves off is while Ward is staring right at him after chickening out.

Are you out of your damn mind?

[Sublime 2]

Ward will play tonight!

Ward said a team doctor saw "something" on an X-ray and advised him to wear a shield.

"I haven't worn one in 16 years," Ward said. "I'm not going to start now."



If the B's come out hitting again, I expect a win.

[gstelmack]

Are you out of your damn mind?

Sucker punch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucker-punch)

A sucker punch is a blow which is made without warning or preparation on the part of the recipient and so is usually delivered from close in. It is not possible to block such a punch and so people at risk of such blows must be alert to the proximity of potential opponents.

Ward (who was itching for a fight with Cullen) was tied up with Walker scuffling with him, they back off a bit, Walker throws down his gloves with Ward right there facing him, then Walker hauls off and hits him from the front. The closest that comes to being a sucker punch is because Ward was an idiot and decided to stand there like a dufus after instigating the whole squence, not because he didn't have any warning one was coming or any opportunity to defend himself. It's not like Walker came up behind him, threw his gloves down, spun him around, and decked him.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Where was the sucker punch? I must be missing something, because the only punch Walker throws with his gloves off is while Ward is staring right at him after chickening out.

Given all I hear from the die-hard NHL fans about fighting around here and how good it is for the NHL, I'm surprised more people aren't attacking Ward for trying to pick a fight with Cullen (who as Rutherford points out has been in like all of 2 fights his entire career) and then trying to back off as soon as Walker bails Cullen out...

I only saw the replay a few times and didn't see it happening live, so I havent' seen it in its entire context, but was Aaron Ward really trying to pick a fight with Matt Cullen? Sure, he was roughing him up a bit in front of the net and giving him the business, but that happens dozens of times in a game and rarely is someone trying to pick a fight. Kirk Maltby does it all the time and he's not trying to pick a fight. Ever.

I never saw any indication that Ward and Cullen were anywhere near to having a fight.

Sure, I have no doubt that Walker was standing up for Cullen. I guess there was some speculation (this could be true) that Ward gave Cullen an elbow to the head and Cullen has a history of concusion problems (similar to what Gary Roberts did to Johan Franzen during the finals last year when Franzen just returned from having concussion issues). If that's the face, again, I can see where Walker was standing up for Cullen. You also throw in all the hits and physical play the Bruins threw at the 'Canes all night long.

So, why Walker was justified for protecting Cullen and standing up for his teammates, he still dropped his gloves and sucker punched Ward right in the face. It's clear as day. I believe Walker that he thought he was about to get into an "altercation" or was already in an "altercation", but you can't just punch guy in his face barehanded before the guy drops his gloves.

If Walker had kept is gloves on and gave Ward a few shots in his face, there would likely either be a 2 or 4 minute roughing penalty for Walker and that's that. (Unless Ward dropped the gloves and there was a fight).

I like both Scott Walker and Aaron Ward, so I have no real horse in this race.

[Honolulu_Blue]

"A sucker punch is a blow which is made without warning or preparation on the part of the recipient and so is usually delivered from close in."

This sounds like a pretty accurate description of Walker's punch to Ward. Maybe he should have known Walker would drop his gloves and haul off and hit him.

I've watched a lot of hockey in my life and that doesn't happen too often. Typically, in cases where one guy drops the gloves and the other guy doesn't, the guy who drops the gloves grabs hold of the other guy or holds off throwing a punch until the other guy drops his gloves.

In a case where one guy drops his gloves, the other guy doesn't and then the first guy hauls off and hits the guy with his gloves one = sucker punch.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I don't think the concept of "third man in" applies unless the other two guys get a fighting major. It has to be third man in to an actual fight for the automatic penalty to kick in.

I remember one game where Steve Yzerman got thrown out for being the "third man in" in a "fight" between Johan Garpenlov and Pat Verbeek.

I didn't think it was the right call there either, since I don't think Johan Garpenlov ever dropped his gloves there either. I think he was just very confused at what was happening until Yzerman skated over and tried to pull Verbeek off him.

[Logan]

"A sucker punch is a blow which is made without warning or preparation on the part of the recipient and so is usually delivered from close in."

This sounds like a pretty accurate description of Walker's punch to Ward. Maybe he should have known Walker would drop his gloves and haul off and hit him.

I've watched a lot of hockey in my laugh and that doesn't happen too often. Typically, in cases where one guy drops the gloves and the other guy doesn't, the guy who drops the gloves grabs hold of the other guy or holds off throwing a punch until the other guy drops his gloves.

In a case where one guy drops his gloves, the other guy doesn't and then the first guy hauls off and hits the guy with his gloves one = sucker punch.

I'm glad this was already posted before I needed to respond.

LOL at quoting wikipedia for definition of a sucker punch.

[gstelmack]

In a case where one guy drops his gloves, the other guy doesn't and then the first guy hauls off and hits the guy with his gloves one = sucker punch.

Okay, so by that definition you're correct. Just surprised at that definition.

Nah, wait, never mind, I see the issue here. In hockey terms, when Ward doesn't drop his gloves, he shouldn't be hit, so even staring right at Walker he doesn't expect him to throw the punch, and that's what makes it a sucker. Okay, I get it.

[gstelmack]

LOL at quoting wikipedia for definition of a sucker punch.

Well, if hockey wants to apply some arcane rules to its fighting, expect some of us to ask occasionally for an explanation of them.

[Logan]

Well, if hockey wants to apply some arcane rules to its fighting, expect some of us to ask occasionally for an explanation of them.

It's not a "fight" when one guy looks like this:

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20090511/11_51441.jpg

[Honolulu_Blue]

Well, if hockey wants to apply some arcane rules to its fighting, expect some of us to ask occasionally for an explanation of them.

I don't think it's that arcane really. I mean, Ward didn't even have his hands up. While I am not street fight expert, if two guys are just standing there having an argument or staring one another down and then all of sudden guy just hauls off and punches the other guy in the face, I think I'd call that a sucker punch.

Isn't that kind of what happened here?

Typically, when there is a "fight" where one player drops his gloves and the other doesn't (or hasn't) it's during a scrum and gloves-on punhces have been thrown, they are wrestling around and one guy decides it's time to escalate the matter. If that's what had happened between Ward and Cullen, there wouldn't even be a suspension.

[Honolulu_Blue]

It's not a "fight" when one guy looks like this:

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20090511/11_51441.jpg

Absolutely. That's a great shot that tells the entire story. Ward still even has his stick in his hand.

There is no way this is anything but a "sucker punch" under any definition, modern, arcane, hockey-wise or otherwise.

Look with your eyes, not your heart/gut, g-mack!

[Fidatelo]

I'm 50/50 on this sucker punch thing. Sure, Ward still has his stick and gloves on, but my question is why? I didn't see it live, but watching the replay a couple times it looked to me like he had about 3-4 seconds to recognize what was going on. He watches Walker drop his gloves, stands there with his dumb look on his face as he rears back, and then just takes a fist in the face.

So I agree that the pic above tells the story, I just don't know if the story is that Walker is a sucker-punching jerk or if Ward is total buffoon.

[gstelmack]

I don't think it's that arcane really. I mean, Ward didn't even have his hands up. While I am not street fight expert, if two guys are just standing there having an argument or staring one another down and then all of sudden guy just hauls off and punches the other guy in the face, I think I'd call that a sucker punch.

Isn't that kind of what happened here?

Typically, when there is a "fight" where one player drops his gloves and the other doesn't (or hasn't) it's during a scrum and gloves-on punhces have been thrown, they are wrestling around and one guy decides it's time to escalate the matter. If that's what had happened between Ward and Cullen, there wouldn't even be a suspension.

When I watch the video, I get the feeling Ward was getting worked up, then all of a sudden changes his mind. He starts the thing with Cullen, accepts the attack from Walker, then when he realises what he's gotten himself into he tries to back down, but by then it's too late.

Sure, take an isolated picture or a clip from the video and it looks really bad for Walker, but watch the entire sequence, or even the whole game (or series), and you'll see Boston slowly escalating their "chippiness" and seeing what they can get away with against Carolina, and all of a sudden someone from Carolina has had enough and Ward acts all shocked and tries to back down. That's a lot of Rutherford talks about in his interview, and a lot of what I see when I watch it.

None of that isn't to say that Walker didn't deserve the penalty or the fine. I'm just not finding that much sympathy for Ward.

[gstelmack]

So I agree that the pic above tells the story, I just don't know if the story is that Walker is a sucker-punching jerk or if Ward is total buffoon.

I think the story is about half of each...

[Logan]

You must have some fucked up clocks in Canada. Watch it again. He dropped his glove between 18 and 19 seconds, and delivered the punch at 20 seconds. The next time, dropped at 24 seconds and the punch was delivered between 25 and 26 seconds - both of a SLOW MOTION video.

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[Logan]

And allow me to get in the head of Walker for a second. Of course this is just my opinion, and doesn't mean that it's exactly what he was thinking...

If I think I'm in an "altercation" so much so that I'm delivering a straight right, when the guy drops I'm going to be delivering blows on the wall down and while he's turtling. My impression is it took that split second for Walker to realize he fucked up.

[gstelmack]

The 8 second mark of that video is pretty good too, where Ward takes a shot at Cullen's head to start the whole thing.

[gstelmack]

And allow me to get in the head of Walker for a second. Of course this is just my opinion, and doesn't mean that it's exactly what he was thinking...

If I think I'm in an "altercation" so much so that I'm delivering a straight right, when the guy drops I'm going to be delivering blows on the wall down and while he's turtling. My impression is it took that split second for Walker to realize he fucked up.

I'll grant you this part. I think he's in shock Ward didn't drop his gloves, too.

[Fidatelo]

From that video, Ward engages Walker, pushes away, which is where in every other fight I've witnessed both guys drop gloves and start throwing (or at least turtling or dancing), but in this case Ward just lets his hands fall to his sides.

Yes, maybe I was off on 3-4 seconds, but I've just never seen a guy go through all the normal pre-fight rituals and then just stand there like a dope as a fist flies at him. Even if he had decided after the shove that he didn't want to fight, why the hell didn't he try to dodge, duck, dip, dive, or dodge?

The whole thing just looks weird to me, it makes no sense.

[Logan]

The 8 second mark of that video is pretty good too, where Ward takes a shot at Cullen's head to start the whole thing.

Inconsequential, as I don't think anyone is claiming Ward was standing around picking daises. But things like that happen during damn near every playoff game without being followed by anything close to what we see next.

[Fidatelo]

Inconsequential, as I don't think anyone is claiming Ward was standing around picking daises. But things like that happen during damn near every playoff game without being followed by anything close to what we see next.

I agree with all of this.

[Honolulu_Blue]

From that video, Ward engages Walker, pushes away, which is where in every other fight I've witnessed both guys drop gloves and start throwing (or at least turtling or dancing), but in this case Ward just lets his hands fall to his sides.

Yes, maybe I was off on 3-4 seconds, but I've just never seen a guy go through all the normal pre-fight rituals and then just stand there like a dope as a fist flies at him. Even if he had decided after the shove that he didn't want to fight, why the hell didn't he try to dodge, duck, dip, dive, or dodge?

The whole thing just looks weird to me, it makes no sense.

I've seen it happen many times before. Typically, what the guy in Ward's position is looking for/expecting is a glove to the face, most likely just a facewash of dirty, stinky leather or, at worst, a gloved punch to the chest/face, which will lead to the guy getting hit to throw his head back like he was punched (for real) and hopefully draw a penalty.

[Tekneek]

I like that Colin Campbell overturned it. I wish they would do away with the instigator penalty completely. It will put a stop to some of this nonsense.

[bbor]

Someone tell the Canes that the game started 10 minutes ago......

Weakest 3-1 lead in history :)

[samifan24]

It's not a "fight" when one guy looks like this:

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20090511/11_51441.jpg

Sucker punch. I can't believe anyone would see what's depicted above and think it's a fair fight.

[molson]

I always thought dropping your gloves was the universal hockey sign for "I wish to fight with you and I am prepared to do so good sir". To punch somebody in the face with a fist, when their gloves are off, just seems so wrong.

Ward said he wasn't even looking at him, the first thing he saw was the punch flying at him. That's pretty clear from the video. People are making a lot of of him standing there, but we're talking like 1-2 seconds.

Still, it looks like a quick, "honest" mistake.

[sterlingice]

You must have some fucked up clocks in Canada

I just like the idea that there's some sort of exchange rate with regards to time :D

SI

[gstelmack]

Sucker punch. I can't believe anyone would see what's depicted above and think it's a fair fight.

And I can't believe anyone who watches the video can think Ward wasn't looking to start something...

[gstelmack]

Well, this is looking a lot like a 1 seed playing a 6 seed. Carolina better wake up.

[molson]

And I can't believe anyone who watches the video can think Ward wasn't looking to start something...

The only problem is that "something" wasn't a fight.

[gstelmack]

And I can't believe anyone who watches the video can think Ward wasn't looking to start something...

Eh, that's too snippy and short.

My point follows Fidatelo's from above: when you start that kind of scrap and get that tangled up with a guy, you don't instantly look away and drop your arms to the side and go that slack unless you are:

An idiot
Baiting your opponent to get him thrown outUsually you tangle up and let the refs separate you, or you break apart to throw down. Ward did neither. You have to look at what was happening before that picture, you can't just look at the picture and draw any meaningful conclusions.

[samifan24]

Bruins force a Game Seven!

[gstelmack]

And they earned it tonight. Carolina better dig deep if they want to move on to the Conference Finals, because Boston is playing like a 1 seed again, and Carolina is playing like, well, Carolina.

That said, I didn't think Carolina could push it to 7, so I'm pleased with the postseason result so far, anything else is gravy.

[DaddyTorgo]

awesome game by the B's!

[DeToxRox]

Through nearly 2 periods it's obvious Anaheim just wants it more. Detroit is missing the net, giving up all sorts of odd man rushes and just be thrown off the puck. Not giving up on this one by a long shot, but through two periods it looks like Detroit has.

[JonInMiddleGA]

WTH started that deal?

edit to add: Okay, now I know what started that deal.

It didn't make a lot of sense, Getzlaf hooks Hossa at the horn and he gets mad? I'm neither hither nor yon on who wins this series but after watching that sequence the Ducks looked like little punk ass bitches. Hope Detroit beats 'em about 8-0 in game seven.

[Chief Rum]

Through nearly 2 periods it's obvious Anaheim just wants it more. Detroit is missing the net, giving up all sorts of odd man rushes and just be thrown off the puck. Not giving up on this one by a long shot, but through two periods it looks like Detroit has.

Conspiracy theory. The NHL paid each road team off the past two games to be sure this one went to Game Seven. ;)

See ya, Thursday, Wings fans. I still don't give us much of a chance, but like I said after Game Four, anytime you get to a Game Seven, there's a puncher's chance. Anything can happen.

[bbor]

3 game 7's.....does it get any better for a hockey fan??

I think not.

[sterlingice]

If they go into OT ;)

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

If they go into OT ;)

How about an OT game 7, a double OT game 7, and then a triple OT game 7 :D

[Matthean]

Ward said he wasn't even looking at him, the first thing he saw was the punch flying at him. That's pretty clear from the video.

Ward pushed him away, looked right at him, and watched Walker drop his gloves. For Ward to say he only saw the fist coming is bull crap.

[Logan]

Really, still on this? Watch the video once again. He first looked at Walker at 18 seconds, and the fist had hit his face at 20 seconds. Again, that is in slow motion.

[Dr. Sak]

Really, still on this? Watch the video once again. He first looked at Walker at 18 seconds, and the fist had hit his face at 20 seconds. Again, that is in slow motion.

I think it was cheap, but fans will justify anything...remember when that one player hit another from behind in the groin? I wont say who it is ;)

[Logan]

Come on, that's just hockey!

[sterlingice]

How about an OT game 7, a double OT game 7, and then a triple OT game 7 :D

I like the way you think!

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

Really, still on this? Watch the video once again. He first looked at Walker at 18 seconds, and the fist had hit his face at 20 seconds. Again, that is in slow motion.

+1

cheapest of cheap shots

[Honolulu_Blue]

Hope Detroit beats 'em about 8-0 in game seven.

I like the way you think!

SI

+1!

[sterlingice]

As much as I would absolutely love a Chicago-Detroit series, I do so like watching the Wings lose. I'd also like to see game 7 go about 12 OTs so whoever wins is completely flat coming into game 1 of the WCF.

SI

[Dr. Sak]

This is the 3rd series in a row that Washington will play in a game 7, and all 3 of them have been at home for them.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I do so like watching the Wings lose.

SI

I bet you also enjoy watching people steal puppies from the arms of small children and bullies stealing lunch monies from much smaller children.

Classy.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I was cracking up at all the fights at the end of the Anaheim-Detroit game. I didn't see exactly who all 10 guys on the ice were, but I believe I counted 3 players who actually do fight from time to time, and they were all wearing Ducks jerseys. It was really weird watching Datsyuk, Hossa, and Rafalski throw punches to defend themselves..

[Honolulu_Blue]

I was cracking up at all the fights at the end of the Anaheim-Detroit game. I didn't see exactly who all 10 guys on the ice were, but I believe I counted 3 players who actually do fight from time to time, and they were all wearing Ducks jerseys. It was really weird watching Datsyuk, Hossa, and Rafalski throw punches to defend themselves..

You know who else was cracking up at all those fights? Colin White.

[sterlingice]

I bet you also enjoy watching people steal puppies from the arms of small children and bullies stealing lunch monies from much smaller children.

Classy.

But those people stealing puppies and lunch monies typically are the Red Wings and their fans :p

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

But those people stealing puppies and lunch monies typically are the Red Wings and their fans :p

SI

I've never known a Red Wings fan to do such a thing. Except for DeTox, once. But that kid had it coming and he was going to buy an unhealthy lunch anyway.

[Pumpy Tudors]

You know who else was cracking up at all those fights? Colin White.
oh fuck me

[DataKing]

Good on the Ducks for forcing a game 7 (I love game 7s...but then, who doesn't?). But the Wings should be able to handle them at the Joe. Anaheim won largely due to being able to get favorable matchups out there on the ice. Babcock will have the last change at home, so he can keep Hossa and Franzen away from the Pronger-Neidermeyer pairing.

Edit: Does anyone know where Datsyuk got his reputation as strictly a finesse player? I know he's not necessarily a drop-the-gloves type, but the guy definitely has a mean streak.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Good on the Ducks for forcing a game 7 (I love game 7s...but then, who doesn't?).

I do not like game 7s when the Red Wings are involved, unless, of course, they get up quickly and the final result is never in question like last time they played a game 7. That was enjoyable.

[DataKing]

Wasn't it a game 7 a number of years ago against the Avs where the chased Patrick Roy after shelling him for something like seven goals in a period and a half?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Wasn't it a game 7 a number of years ago against the Avs where the chased Patrick Roy after shelling him for something like seven goals in a period and a half?

Yep. That's what I was referring to in the post above. That was the Wings' last Game 7 at least from what I can recall.

[DataKing]

You're right...May 31st, 2002. 7-zip over the Avs. I'm surprised it's been that long since the Wings have been in a game 7 (had to go look it up).

[Tekneek]

That was not a sucker punch. A sucker punch is what Tie Domi did to Ulf Samuelsson back in the day. Ulf absolutely had no idea what was coming. This situation is not the same.

[Maple Leafs]

That was not a sucker punch. A sucker punch is what Tie Domi did to Ulf Samuelsson back in the day. Ulf absolutely had no idea what was coming. This situation is not the same.
The situation is not the same. But it's still a sucker punch.

[gstelmack]

The NHL folks here finally explained to me that dropping your arms to your side is the universal sign of "don't hit me" and that's what made it a sucker punch.

I still think there are two separate punches being discussed. I keep seeing references to a punch thrown when Walker first entered the fray between Ward and Cullen. That's the only thing that makes sense when Ward keeps saying he was looking at Cullen and didn't see Walker until he got hit.

[Honolulu_Blue]

That was not a sucker punch. A sucker punch is what Tie Domi did to Ulf Samuelsson back in the day. Ulf absolutely had no idea what was coming. This situation is not the same.

Just because what Tie Domi did to Ulf Samuelsson back in the day was a sucker punch does not mean that what Walker did to Ward was not a sucker punch. These aren't mutually exclusive events. It's kind of like pointing to a Yorkshire Terrier and saying "That's not a dog. A dog is a German Sheppard. Dogs are much bigger and have longer tails. A Yorkie is not a dog."

Walker's sucker punch of Ward was just a different kind of sucker punch is all.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The NHL folks here finally explained to me that dropping your arms to your side is the universal sign of "don't hit me" and that's what made it a sucker punch.

That's not what was explained at all, but if that's the angle you want to take with all this... go on with your bad self!

It always baffles me how subjective people's views are when it comes to "their" team. I mean, back in the day when Bob Probert sucker pucnhed Vincent Reindeau, I just admitted that the punch was way out of line (amusing, yes, but way out of line). I didn't feel the need to twist reality or debate semantics to defend his actions.

Accept it. Deal with it. Move on.

[gstelmack]

I've watched a lot of hockey in my life and that doesn't happen too often. Typically, in cases where one guy drops the gloves and the other guy doesn't, the guy who drops the gloves grabs hold of the other guy or holds off throwing a punch until the other guy drops his gloves.

In a case where one guy drops his gloves, the other guy doesn't and then the first guy hauls off and hits the guy with his gloves one = sucker punch.

That was pretty clear to me. But hockey (at least the fighting and hitting part) makes less and less sense to me the more I try to understand it, so whatever.

As for the fanboy angle, look, I'm not saying Ward didn't deserve his punishment (he clearly charged into this wanting a fight, I think his surprise was that Ward ended up not wanting one), and I said up front I have no opinion on the suspension as I don't fully understand the rules (and if he had been suspended, I wouldn't have argued it at all), all I wanted to do was understand why people kept wanting to call this a "sucker punch", as I didn't see that from the replays given that Ward was tangled up with Walker right before the punch. In the real world, if someone shoves my wife, I jump in and shove him, he pushes me back (or grapples with me or whatever and then we spearate), and I deck him (fat chance, but play along...) your average Joe is not going to call that a sucker punch. I'm trying to understand the hockey nuances that turn a similar on-ice situation into a sucker punch.

I'll shut up about it now and just gripe about all the fighting in hockey instead and how it has no place in the modern game. Shoving both hands with a stick in it into the face of a guy who just took a shot should be a penalty, let's debate that instead :devil:

[Fidatelo]

I'd like to state that I hate the Carolina Hurricanes with a passion, and want the Bruins to advance like nobodies business, yet I'm not sold on it as a sucker punch.

[molson]

I really think it was an accidental sucker punch, if such a thing exists.

It was bad form, it was cheap, but I don't think it was malicious. It was a mistake. We're talking 2-3 seconds where all these decisions are being made, I totally understand how a punch can be thrown in the heat of that moment.

[Logan]

I really think it was an accidental sucker punch, if such a thing exists.

It was bad form, it was cheap, but I don't think it was malicious. It was a mistake. We're talking 2-3 seconds where all these decisions are being made, I totally understand how a punch can be thrown in the heat of that moment.

I agree, and that's exactly why I said Walker's reaction as Ward went down was "shit, what did I just do?"

[Honolulu_Blue]

I really think it was an accidental sucker punch, if such a thing exists.

It was bad form, it was cheap, but I don't think it was malicious. It was a mistake. We're talking 2-3 seconds where all these decisions are being made, I totally understand how a punch can be thrown in the heat of that moment.

I agree with this.

[watravaler]

10-15 years? A lot can happen in a decade...

True, but I see Toews as the leader of the team/top 5-10 NHL player/elite NHL captian for at least ten years. Who knows how long his legs will last after he hits 30, but this guy is Yzerman all over again, imo, of course. If the Wirtz' return to their ridiculous ways(and I'm far from sold on the "new" Wirtz, then this could be a 3-5 year ride, followed by empty seats. Nevertheless, the amount of young talent Chicago has assembled after years of high-draft picks is mind-boggling, kind of similar to the DevilRays situation in MLB. Only a true idiot, or a moron who only cares about the bottom line(I'm looking at you Wirtz family) can screw up this situation. Bottom line, it's about friggin time!

[Draft Dodger]

Wasn't it a game 7 a number of years ago against the Avs where the chased Patrick Roy after shelling him for something like seven goals in a period and a half?

:mad:

(still mad about the Statue of Liberty in game 6)

[DataKing]

:mad:

(still mad about the Statue of Liberty in game 6)

Served him right! :D I still hate the Avs...those great Wings/Avs matchups were some of the nastiest hockey I've ever seen. You know things are rough when the goalies decide to duke it out. :D

[Fidatelo]

True, but I see Toews as the leader of the team/top 5-10 NHL player/elite NHL captian for at least ten years. Who knows how long his legs will last after he hits 30, but this guy is Yzerman all over again, imo, of course. If the Wirtz' return to their ridiculous ways(and I'm far from sold on the "new" Wirtz, then this could be a 3-5 year ride, followed by empty seats. Nevertheless, the amount of young talent Chicago has assembled after years of high-draft picks is mind-boggling, kind of similar to the DevilRays situation in MLB. Only a true idiot, or a moron who only cares about the bottom line(I'm looking at you Wirtz family) can screw up this situation. Bottom line, it's about friggin time!

I'm just sayin', 15 years is forever in sports. There are so many promising teams/players that just don't work out. Injuries, contract disputes, off ice issues, on ice issues, dressing room issues... what if Kane sleeps with Toews girlfriend? Or his mom? What if they are motherlovers gone wrong?

Ok, I'm getting jokey, but you get my point. Do the Hawks have a promising young core? Absolutely. Are they set for 10-15 years? I don't think you can ever make that kind of assumption.

[Tekneek]

Walker's sucker punch of Ward was just a different kind of sucker punch is all.

When I was playing hockey, if an opposing player was facing me with his gloves off, I had a pretty good idea what they were looking to do. Ward is a professional. He's been around. He's paid his dues. He knew exactly what was about to happen and took one for the team.

[Draft Dodger]

When I was playing hockey, if an opposing player was facing me with his gloves off, I had a pretty good idea what they were looking to do. Ward is a professional. He's been around. He's paid his dues. He knew exactly what was about to happen and took one for the team.

100% true.
doesn't make Walker any less of a douchebag for doing it though

[sterlingice]

Served him right! :D I still hate the Avs...those great Wings/Avs matchups were some of the nastiest hockey I've ever seen. You know things are rough when the goalies decide to duke it out. :D

That rivalry *was* 90s playoffs hockey. I remember watching a ton of playoff hockey in the dorms and those were great matchups. Hey, wait. You were there ;)

SI

[Dr. Sak]

Fluery with a HUGE save on Ovechkin early.

[sterlingice]

Holy crap- 2 goals 8 seconds apart. Soft, soft goal against Varlamov for that second one.

SI

[JPhillips]

That really dumb slash was the beginning of both goals. Discipline has been a problem for DC all year long.

[Dr. Sak]

That really dumb slash was the beginning of both goals. Discipline has been a problem for DC all year long.

And a dumb play by Federov.

[Logan]

Gross period by Wash.

[Logan]

No no...that was gross.

[sterlingice]

Oh god. Time to make the change in net

SI

[Logan]

No no no...that was gross.

Jesus.

[sterlingice]

Well, that's that. I'd say it's been fun, but this game 7 has just been ugly. Hopefully tomorrow night's games will be better.

SI

[Tekneek]

5-0. Outshot 23-10. Not looking good for Washington tonight. They made it an exciting series, though.

[bbor]

Na-na-na-na.......

[sterlingice]

You know what the best thing to do to start a 3rd period down by 4? Get a double minor for hitting the star player of the other team so that the best case scenario is down by 4 with 15 minutes left to go...

SI

[yacovfb]

Not sure I get the Caps fans' reactions at the end of this. Sure, if your team is the underdog who falls short you applaud. But the Caps were the 2nd seed and this was the 2nd round. And the score was 6-2. Just seems weird to applaud that.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Were they really the underdog though?

Maybe heading into this series some thought they were, but heading into the playoffs in general?

[yacovfb]

I was saying that the Caps weren't the underdog...

[Wolfpack]

Not sure I get the Caps fans' reactions at the end of this. Sure, if your team is the underdog who falls short you applaud. But the Caps were the 2nd seed and this was the 2nd round. And the score was 6-2. Just seems weird to applaud that.

Given that the Caps were amongst the worst teams in the league until the last couple of years and that this year was really truly a breakthrough year for them (they got in by the skin of their teeth last year), it's understandable to me why the fans would applaud for a generally successful season even if the playoffs didn't finish like they had hoped (also have to remember they didn't get out of the first round last year). Now, if the Caps keep this stretch going for maybe another two years and were consistently winning the Southeast, yet coming up empty in the playoffs, then I think I could see this as being a little strange.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I was saying that the Caps weren't the underdog...

Sorry read that wrong

[Logan]

So last night had to have hurt the NHL right? You finally get a ton of national publicity for a game and then one team completely shits the bed making it no contest. Anybody who was tuning in solely because of the increased interest will probably never come back.

[Honolulu_Blue]

So last night had to have hurt the NHL right? You finally get a ton of national publicity for a game and then one team completely shits the bed making it no contest. Anybody who was tuning in solely because of the increased interest will probably never come back.

Whatever.

I grow a bit tired of these mythical people out there who would be hockey fans so long as there was no fighting, there was 4 on 4 hockey all the time, there was 4 on 4 hockey in OT in the playoffs, a Game 7 was perfectly competitive and exciting, but not a blowout, or if only Scott Walker had been suspended for punching (sucker or not) Aaron Ward in the face.

I am sure there are still potential fans out there, but if people are so fickle as to "never come back" because one game (of an amazing series) didn't quite live up to their expectations, then they really aren't going to be fans of the sport. Even if last night's Game 7 was the "greatest game ever", there's no way in hell these people are going to watch some Caps/Predators game in the middle of February.

Take me for instance. After hearing so much about the Bulls/Celtics playoff series a couple weeks ago, I decided that I would check out game 6. I am not a real basketball fan, but I know a little bit about. I tuned into the 4th quarter of game 6. It was pretty good. The game went into triple OT. Despite how close the game was, I found the OT to be completely unwatchable. For every 20 seconds of live action there were 4 minutes of commercials. I saw more footage of "TNT Original Series" than I did actual basketball. I was so bored by all the stops in play that I kept going back to game 1 of the Hakws/Canucks game. That said, even if the OT had delivered the goods, I still wouldn't have become an NBA fan. Sure, I might tune in to part of an occassional playoff game, but I would rarely sit down to watch a regular season Pistons game.

[Dr. Sak]

The game was so boring that I turned over to the Phillies-Dodgers game on ESPN only to hear Chris Berman go on a 10 minute talk about how great the hockey playoffs have been.

[wade moore]

To Logan's point - this season is the first time I've ever watched more than 60 seconds of an NHL game - playoff or otherwise. And I watched probably a total of 8 or 9 periods.

If the Caps go another round I probably would have watched all of their games.

Now, I could care less.

Would i start watching regular season games? Doubtful. But high-ratings playoff games are still a very good thing.

[Honolulu_Blue]

To Logan's point - this season is the first time I've ever watched more than 60 seconds of an NHL game - playoff or otherwise. And I watched probably a total of 8 or 9 periods.

If the Caps go another round I probably would have watched all of their games.

Now, I could care less.

Would i start watching regular season games? Doubtful. But high-ratings playoff games are still a very good thing.

Obviously high-ratings for playoff games are a very good thing. And it's great that the Caps run got you to watch 8-9 periods.

Still, you didn't just tune in to Game 7. Also, let's say the Caps lost 4-3 in triple OT, would you have "cared more" about the next round of the playoffs? Would that have made you start watching regular season games?

[JonInMiddleGA]

So last night had to have hurt the NHL right?

Doubtful there'd be much impact. Truth is, the audience is still so relatively small that even if the game sucked it really couldn't have turned off all that many people and it's still just one game of several that were likely sampled by new(er) viewers.

Consider this if you will, last week's Wednesday WAS-PIT matchup was the most watched NHL semifinal game on cable in 7 years. It drew 1.5 million viewers, a 1.3 cable household rating. That means it had the same audience as TNA Wrestling on Spike. How relevant does the latter program strike you in the big picture?

It's great for the league (and Versus) to be able to talk about 19% increase in M18-34 and what not but the reality is that the audience is still on the very small side.

[Logan]

Doubtful there'd be much impact. Truth is, the audience is still so relatively small that even if the game sucked it really couldn't have turned off all that many people and it's still just one game of several that were likely sampled by new(er) viewers.

Consider this if you will, last week's Wednesday WAS-PIT matchup was the most watched NHL semifinal game on cable in 7 years. It drew 1.5 million viewers, a 1.3 cable household rating. That means it had the same audience as TNA Wrestling on Spike. How relevant does the latter program strike you in the big picture?

It's great for the league (and Versus) to be able to talk about 19% increase in M18-34 and what not but the reality is that the audience is still on the very small side.

Despite my comment about people "never coming back" I really didn't even mean all that from a ratings perspective. More like you have national media, guys who aren't hockey fans, talking up this game and anyone who tuned in probably thought it was a complete joke along the lines of, "this is really the best you got?" Right or wrong, it just doesn't paint the league in a positive light is all I'm saying.

[wade moore]

Obviously high-ratings for playoff games are a very good thing. And it's great that the Caps run got you to watch 8-9 periods.

Still, you didn't just tune in to Game 7. Also, let's say the Caps lost 4-3 in triple OT, would you have "cared more" about the next round of the playoffs? Would that have made you start watching regular season games?

Well, it made me turn on game 7 mid-2nd period and then immediately click it off.

I doubt ANYTHING will make me watch regular season games. Any game that has more than 30 or so regular season games makes me not watch the regular season.

But, it may have made me more vested in future playoffs. I saw the appeal to an individual game. It was a lot more fun than I remember in the past.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Well, it made me turn on game 7 mid-2nd period and then immediately click it off.

I doubt ANYTHING will make me watch regular season games. Any game that has more than 30 or so regular season games makes me not watch the regular season.

But, it may have made me more vested in future playoffs. I saw the appeal to an individual game. It was a lot more fun than I remember in the past.

Well, the Caps should continue to be a good and exciting team for a while, which should draw you back to the game during the playoffs. The series was great and did it's job, regardless of the lackluster Game 7.

There's no doubt that a more exciting Game 7 would have been a better outcome for the NHL and such, but I don't think the fact that it was a blowout really matters that much at all. Game 7 was still the lead story on Sports Center and they had a couple of different segments on it.

If folks tuned into Game 7 and then decided not to watch anymore hockey because they said "this is really the best you got?", they would very likely have found some other reason not to watch after the game was done.

[DataKing]

That rivalry *was* 90s playoffs hockey. I remember watching a ton of playoff hockey in the dorms and those were great matchups. Hey, wait. You were there ;)

SI

:D

[molson]

Despite my comment about people "never coming back" I really didn't even mean all that from a ratings perspective. More like you have national media, guys who aren't hockey fans, talking up this game and anyone who tuned in probably thought it was a complete joke along the lines of, "this is really the best you got?" Right or wrong, it just doesn't paint the league in a positive light is all I'm saying.

Because it was a blowout? All sports have blowouts, I don't think that paints an entire league in a negative light.

At least there was a lot of scoring.

[lordscarlet]

Doubtful there'd be much impact. Truth is, the audience is still so relatively small that even if the game sucked it really couldn't have turned off all that many people and it's still just one game of several that were likely sampled by new(er) viewers.

Consider this if you will, last week's Wednesday WAS-PIT matchup was the most watched NHL semifinal game on cable in 7 years. It drew 1.5 million viewers, a 1.3 cable household rating. That means it had the same audience as TNA Wrestling on Spike. How relevant does the latter program strike you in the big picture?

It's great for the league (and Versus) to be able to talk about 19% increase in M18-34 and what not but the reality is that the audience is still on the very small side.

I wish we could know what the ratings would have been if it were on a "real" network.

[DataKing]

I wish we could know what the ratings would have been if it were on a "real" network.

What sort of ratings were NHL playoff games getting on ESPN pre-lockout? That would probably be a pretty good indication.

[sterlingice]

I wish we could know what the ratings would have been if it were on a "real" network.

Ayup :(

SI

[samifan24]

I wish we could know what the ratings would have been if it were on a "real" network.

By real you mean like ESPN, a channel that everyone nationally gets, right? (I know a lot of people get Versus but I'm sure ESPN's numbers are still much, much bigger)

[lordscarlet]

What sort of ratings were NHL playoff games getting on ESPN pre-lockout? That would probably be a pretty good indication.

Perhaps. This has definitely been a very hyped game/series, though. The possibility of gaining a lot of fans was riding on it (perhaps there is some hyperbole there) and a lot of people either don't get the network, or don't even know the network exists. If they just happened across it in their standard TV lineup... (although, if they just happened across it, would they know the hype?)

This was built up much like a Yankees vs. Red Sox playoff series, but there are a ton of people that couldn't watch it.

[lordscarlet]

By real you mean like ESPN, a channel that everyone nationally gets, right? (I know a lot of people get Versus but I'm sure ESPN's numbers are still much, much bigger)

Correct. Or better yet, NBC. (but that's "too cheap to pay for cable" guy speaking)

[DataKing]

Went and did a little digging. Here are the Nielsen Ratings for the Stanley Cup finals since 1995. It looks like NHL ratings may very well be recovering from the lockout. Last year's Detroit/Pittsburgh series was close to what the big networks were getting before the lockout.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="500"><tbody><tr height="16"><td height="16" width="85">Year</td> <td width="55">Viewers (million)</td> <td style="text-align: center;" width="85">Network</td> <td width="266">Teams</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl32" height="16">1995</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">5.21</td> <td class="xl24" style="text-align: center;">FOX</td> <td class="xl26">New Jersey Devils vs. Detroit Red Wings</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl32" height="16">1996</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">5.09</td> <td class="xl24" style="text-align: center;">FOX</td> <td class="xl26">Colorado Avalanche vs. Florida Panthers</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl32" height="16">1997</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">6.37</td> <td class="xl24" style="text-align: center;">FOX</td> <td class="xl26">Detroit Red Wings vs. Philadelphia Flyers</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl32" height="16">1998</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">4.83</td> <td class="xl24" style="text-align: center;">FOX</td> <td class="xl26">Detroit Red Wings vs. Washington Capitals</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl32" height="16">1999</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">4.87</td> <td class="xl24" style="text-align: center;">FOX</td> <td class="xl26">Dallas Stars vs. Buffalo Sabres</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl32" height="16">2000</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">5.51</td> <td class="xl24" style="text-align: center;">ABC</td> <td class="xl26">New Jersey Devils vs. Dallas Stars</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl33" height="16" width="85">2001</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">5.06</td> <td class="xl27" style="text-align: center;" width="85">ABC</td> <td class="xl26">Colorado Avalanche vs. New Jersey Devils</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl31" height="16">2002</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">5.77</td> <td class="xl28" style="text-align: center;">ABC</td> <td class="xl26">Detroit Red Wings vs. Carolina Hurricanes</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl31" height="16">2003</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">3.63</td> <td class="xl28" style="text-align: center;">*ABC/ESPN</td> <td class="xl26">New Jersey Devils vs. Anaheim Ducks</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl31" height="16">2004</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">3.29</td> <td class="xl28" style="text-align: center;">*ABC/ESPN</td> <td class="xl26">Tampa Bay Lightning vs. Calgary Flames</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl34" height="16">2005</td> <td class="xl25"> </td> <td class="xl29" style="text-align: center;"> </td> <td class="xl29">Strike, no season</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl34" height="16">2006</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">2.83</td> <td class="xl28" style="text-align: center;">**NBC/OLN</td> <td class="xl30">Carolina vs, Edmonton</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl31" height="16">2007</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">1.76</td> <td class="xl28" style="text-align: center;">NBC/VS</td> <td class="xl31">Ottawa vs. Anaheim</td> </tr> <tr height="16"> <td class="xl31" height="16">2008</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">4.48</td> <td class="xl28" style="text-align: center;">NBC/VS</td> <td class="xl31">Pittsburgh vs. Detroit</td></tr></tbody></table>

[JonInMiddleGA]

I know a lot of people get Versus but I'm sure ESPN's numbers are still much, much bigger

Just under 100 million households for ESPN, about 75 million for Versus (by way of comparison Versus has slightly fewer than The Golf Channel, slightly more than Speed Channel).

There was some somewhat disingenuous article (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/hiestand-tv/2009-05-07-nhl-ratings_N.htm) in USA Today last week that pointed out the lower numbers on Versus and mentioned how ESPN got higher ratings for the College World Series, Pro Bowling, and the Little League World Series than Vs. gets for the NHL playoffs. The disingenuous part is that even if you put the ratings back to their previous level on ESPN, based on the figures he used the CWS would still outdraw the NHL, the bowling would be about even, and the LLWS would be just a little behind. The writer tried to make it sound like it was all about the network and that just isn't the case.

The problem is hockey on TV not translating very well to general audiences in the U.S. regardless of what network it's on. Regional sports networks have been posting record high numbers for the past several years, presumably the rooting interest overcomes the issues with hockey & TV, but that's never been the case on a national level.

edit to add: Even NBC, which certainly doesn't have a distribution problem, got first round numbers below 1.0 to 1.4 ... with the Rangers-Caps to pulling the same HH rating of 0.7 as Poker After Dark which airs at 2am.

Separately, for ESPN to put the hockey back on (which they've been rumored to be interested in doing since before last season), the rights fees would almost have to be minimal to almost non-existent. NBC pays the league not a dime for the rights, Versus/Comcast paying around $70 million a year for the cable rights, but you can bet that unless ESPN has lost their minds they'd be a lot closer to what NBC paid, with Versus probably not objecting since they could then start cutting their losses with reduced payments too. Otherwise ESPN would be nuts since they can put the CWS or bowling on air for a relatively minimal cost.

re-edit: And even with zero rights fees, just the cost of production, NBC has not yet committed to carrying the playoffs beyond this season.

[Pumpy Tudors]

This is just me being goofy, but I find it funny how those ratings DataKing posted list "OLN" as one of the networks for 2006 (using the 2006 name of the network), but check out the teams they show in the 2003 Finals. Funny, I watched that whole series in 2003 and don't remember the "Anaheim Ducks" playing.

[Fidatelo]

Although I've never really understood the whole "hockey is hard to watch on TV" thing, I wonder if HD will help to alleviate that problem? I think I orgasmed the first time I watched a game in HD.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Although I've never really understood the whole "hockey is hard to watch on TV" thing, I wonder if HD will help to alleviate that problem? I think I orgasmed the first time I watched a game in HD.

I never really understood it either. HD should help in that regard, but I've always thought that that the, for the most part, the whole "hockey is hard to watch on TV" thing was just an excuse for people who just don't like or are not all that interested in hockey. Even if they are watching the game in HD, they will find some other excuse not to watch.

Still, the difference between watching hockey in HD and non-HD is immense. If I actually could get some of the Center Ice Package channels in HD, I would watch a lot more hockey over the course of the regular season.

[samifan24]

I always thought that when people said "hockey is hard to watch on TV," they were referring to the fact that it can be difficult to understand the rules if you're a new fan and not yet used to the pace of the game.

[Fidatelo]

I always thought that when people said "hockey is hard to watch on TV," they were referring to the fact that it can be difficult to understand the rules if you're a new fan and not yet used to the pace of the game.

Wouldn't that apply to almost any sport?

I agree with H_B, it seems just like an excuse.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, I've never quite understood that either. It's great to watch on tv, personally. And I'm one of those poor bastards who still doesn't have an HD tv.

SI

[lordscarlet]

I think "hard to watch on tv" does have to do with the pace of the game and speed of the puck. That's why FOX tried to put the light on it. People unaccustomed to hockey (like myself) have a real hard time following where the puck is while also trying to figure out the rules. No other sport (that is widely successful) has the same speed and "object" size (baseball is about the same, but does not have the speed factor -- soccer the same, but the ball is much larger).

[Honolulu_Blue]

I always thought that when people said "hockey is hard to watch on TV," they were referring to the fact that it can be difficult to understand the rules if you're a new fan and not yet used to the pace of the game.

I always understood it (and it's always been explained to me) that it's because people can't see/follow the puck. Hence, Fox's brief "glow puck" experiment.

[Logan]

Yeah my moron roommate claims to not be able to follow the puck on his top of the line 52" Sony that we keep in the living room. I try really hard not to call him an idiot to his face though, since he's a black belt and also huge.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think "hard to watch on tv" does have to do with the pace of the game and speed of the puck. That's why FOX tried to put the light on it. People unaccustomed to hockey (like myself) have a real hard time following where the puck is while also trying to figure out the rules. No other sport (that is widely successful) has the same speed and "object" size (baseball is about the same, but does not have the speed factor -- soccer the same, but the ball is much larger).

Another problem with broadcasting hockey is the color of the ice surface. White is one of the hardest colors to make look good on television. Green, on the other hand, is one of the easiest.

A good friend of mine is the producer for the Dallas Stars' television broadcasts (the local ones on the Fox Sports Dallas or whatever), he has said numerous times that getting the white ice surface to look good is that hardest thing they do.

[samifan24]

Wouldn't that apply to almost any sport?

Not really. I think the sheer speed of the game and, as others have mentioned, the size of the puck and sometimes the complexity of the rules (icing and delayed offsides) make the game more difficult for potential fans to pick up on TV.

[Logan]

There's also the frustration factor when someone sees, for example, the point men cycling the puck around on a PP (like the "SHOOT! SHOOT!" jackass fans we get at games sometimes).

[lordscarlet]

Ultimately, most of us didn't grow up with the game. I'm sure stuff that happens during baseball, football and basketball stump new viewers. I haven't watched enough hockey to say whether the announcers could do a better job or not, but perhaps that is part of it?

[sterlingice]

Early 5 on 3 for Anaheim

SI

[DeToxRox]

Anahiem only had one shot on that 5 on 3. Crazy.

[sterlingice]

Wings do a good job of killing it. Hell, during the 5 on 3 the Ducks barely got off a shot- they just sat there and played with it.

SI

[DeToxRox]

I appreciate a Wings PP as much as the next guy but what a terrible call on Getzlaf. These refs need to put it away. They did yesterday. Do it today.

[gstelmack]

So, two game 7s on tonight, one of which involves East Coast teams, the other a MidWest and a West Coast team, and they put them on at the same time? And folks were wondering why the NHL has ratings problems.

[sterlingice]

To be fair, both cities are in the eastern time zone. But, yeah, why they didn't go 6/8 with these games is beyond me

SI

[DeToxRox]

Well to be fair, Detroit is going to get the prime time start regardless because they get the biggest ratings outside of maybe Pittsburgh. Plus this has been the better series.

But the problem is Carolina/Boston would have to start at 6 since you can't have a West coast team playing at 3 Pacific. And you can't have a Friday game because that's the worst TV night. Plus Saturday is probably out of the question because of the delay between games and the ECF is scheduled to start Monday.

It's just poor long term planning but there isn't much they could've done. I wish there were though as I'd like to see both games.

[DaddyTorgo]

how about the fact that i have a black screen on nesn right now - wtf is up with that?

[DeToxRox]

So Darren Helm is really, really fast.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, Cleary said Helm might be the fastest guy in the league. I was calling bullshit until that goal. That was just insane.

[DaddyTorgo]

Bruins 1
Canes 0

7:42 in

[DeToxRox]

Big goal for Anaheim there by Selanne.

[DeToxRox]

And Detroit answers. What a play by Datsyuk.

[sterlingice]

Wow- brutal goal by Detroit. Anaheim thought they were back in it and were pressuring. But then the Wings just get that 2 goal lead back.

SI

[DeToxRox]

LOL Hiller is a terrible actor. It was for sure a penalty on Hudler but he acted like he was re-enacting the JFK assassination with how he went down.

[DataKing]

I know the Wings are up 2 and I shouldn't bitch, but HOW does Pronger tackling Hossa behind the net not deserve a penalty?

[DeToxRox]

3-2. Gonna be a war.

[DataKing]

Words cannot express my hatred for Chris Pronger. :mad:

[Router Help]

http://www.jaylark.com/cherry.jpg

That is all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Damn, I know we're all getting older but Don Johnson has really gone downhill.

[DataKing]

:D I feel better now. :D

[sterlingice]

Holy crap. That's two straight times with just downright stupid plays by the Ducks D and they're lucky it's still 3-2. Crossing right in front of the goal followed by a crappy turnover.

SI

[DeToxRox]

Tough break there for Detroit.

[sterlingice]

Wow! Now this is what a game 7 should look like :D

SI

[DeToxRox]

Detroit needs to do something on the PP or they're cooked. That was their big advantage this series but Anaheim's had the better PP.

[sterlingice]

Is the diving flip of the puck across the blue line legal?

SI

[Router Help]

Is the diving flip of the puck across the blue line legal?

SI

Yes. Moving a broken stick into the play to block a pass or a shot is not legal however.

[DeToxRox]

Helluva an effort there by Cleary to score that goal.

[sterlingice]

Oh man. Hiller knocked it in

SI

[Chief Rum]

I don't even know what to make of this. All I know is, nothing good could have come from it. :(

[JonInMiddleGA]

Nice of Hiller to reinforce my perception of the Ducks as whiny little bitches.
I was almost starting to feel funny about sitting here pulling so hard for Detroit but not any more.

Now if I could see Getzlaf get KTFO'ed this portion of the night would be just about complete.

[DeToxRox]

Well this has been what playoff hockey is all about, minus the chinsy calls.

[sterlingice]

Now that's what a game 7 is supposed to look like. I'd have preferred Anaheim won. But I can't wait for Hawks-Wings

SI

[Chief Rum]

Good series, Wings. You earned it. Glad we could make you really fight for it.

There were just too many ways this thing could have gone different (both today and in other games). Lots to think about it over the summer for the Ducks.

I hope I haven't just watched the last games by Scotty and Teemu.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, all credit to Cleary for his goal, but it bugs the hell out of me that we lose this one on a goal like that. Not that there was a doubt about the goal, but that it was just so damn ugly. I would have much preferred a more skillfully done goal, like Lidstrom's Game One winner.

[gstelmack]

2-1 Canes at the second intermission after 3 key penalty kills, including one complete BS call. Canes playing well, especially on defense.

I missed most of the first period. They said something about a Brind'Amour goal getting waved off? Anyone know what happened? Heaven forbid FoxSports would just casually drop the mention and then not show a single replay of it during the first intermission...

[DeToxRox]

Good series, Wings. You earned it. Glad we could make you really fight for it.

There were just too many ways this thing could have gone different (both today and in other games). Lots to think about it over the summer for the Ducks.

I hope I haven't just watched the last games by Scotty and Teemu.

For sure an amazing series. One of the best I've seen in a long time. Anaheim is going to be a force if they can find a solid second line. That is truly what held them back is they just couldn't do much with that second line and you cannot break up the Getz line because that might be the best line in hockey. Their cycle game is second to none.

Anyway, Anaheim was just nails. A shame it had to end that way for Hiller though.

[Chief Rum]

And go Hawks!

A couple months ago, when it looked like the Ducks would snooze their way to a playoff-less offseason, I was wondering what team I would root for. In the end, I had settled on the Hawks. So I'm glad my "backup choice" is still around.

[DeToxRox]

BTW, all credit to Cleary for his goal, but it bugs the hell out of me that we lose this one on a goal like that. Not that there was a doubt about the goal, but that it was just so damn ugly. I would have much preferred a more skillfully done goal, like Lidstrom's Game One winner.

Yeah but you had that feeling that this game was going to end that way. I do agree though, I would've loved for a snipe or a dangle to be the game winner, but in a way that Cleary goal encompassed the entire series. Just guys fighting like hell for space.

[DataKing]

Mad props to the Ducks for one heck of a series. The TV guys have been right about one thing from the beginning...no matter who you ask, the Ducks are not a #8 seed. A really good combination of skilled young guys and wiley veterans, they just couldn't match the depth of the Wings over seven games. What is hopefully a march to another Stanley Cup may seem like a walk in the park compared to what Anaheim just put them through.

[Chief Rum]

True. This wasn't a series for pretty goals.

If you want that frilly shit, go watch Pittsburgh. ;)

[Draft Dodger]

Winter Classic Rematch!

[Chief Rum]

Mad props to the Ducks for one heck of a series. The TV guys have been right about one thing from the beginning...no matter who you ask, the Ducks are not a #8 seed. A really good combination of skilled young guys and wiley veterans, they just couldn't match the depth of the Wings over seven games. What is hopefully a march to another Stanley Cup may seem like a walk in the park compared to what Anaheim just put them through.

From us Ducks fans, thanks to the gracious responses from you Wingers.

This season is such a mind****. There are two ways to look at it. We are either:

A) thrilled we turned a lackluster season around down the stretch, beat the #1 seed and took the #2 seed to seven; or

B) disgusted that a team with as much talent as the Ducks have took the first five months of the season off before getting serious, thus forcing a Top 3-4 talent squad into a #8 seed, and putting us on too early collision courses with the two best teams in the West (and maybe in the NHL period).

[Draft Dodger]

2-1 Canes at the second intermission after 3 key penalty kills, including one complete BS call. Canes playing well, especially on defense.

I missed most of the first period. They said something about a Brind'Amour goal getting waved off? Anyone know what happened? Heaven forbid FoxSports would just casually drop the mention and then not show a single replay of it during the first intermission...

I don't remember a goal getting waved off in the first. He wasn't the one originally credited on the goal I think, so maybe that's it.

B's are in trouble - they're too inconsistent

[Honolulu_Blue]

Wow. First time I've been able to relax in two days...

Great series. Really a classic. I was barely able to breath during most of these games.

The Ducks are a great opponent. A very tough team from the goalie out. Their top guys Getzlaf and Perry gave it all they had. They completely out played the Wings' top guys of Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Hossa. (Did Holmstrom even play in this series?)

It's good to finally beat this team. The Wings owe them for 2003 and 2007. Also, as much as I respect the Ducks as a team, they have a number of players whose skills I respect but who I totally despise.

It's good to see the good guys stil win, even in the Aughts. :D

[bhlloy]

Good series Wings fans. In the end the Wings just skated a little bit better than the Ducks did (Helm was absolutely immense the whole series long) and deserved to win the series.

CR - I'm firmly in the a) camp although I can't help thinking what might have been now. When you think how many young players the Ducks have, I'm really excited for the future. I see this group winning another cup within 3 years. It's been a fun postseason and great experience.

[DataKing]

Also, as much as I respect the Ducks as a team, they have a number of players whose skills I respect but who I totally despise.

*cough*Pronger*cough*

[DataKing]

Dola...awful defensive support by Brind'Amour on that Lucic goal.

[Honolulu_Blue]

It's not going to get any easier...

The Wings go from Hiller to Khabibhulin, who's been playing great.

Getzlaf and Perry to Kane and Toewes.

Niedermayer and Pronger to Keith and Seabrook.

It'll be fun to get the Detroit-Chicago rivalry back on track. It's been dormant for far, far too long. They were my first most hated team back when I was 12-13.

[Chief Rum]

CR - I'm firmly in the a) camp although I can't help thinking what might have been now. When you think how many young players the Ducks have, I'm really excited for the future. I see this group winning another cup within 3 years. It's been a fun postseason and great experience.

I am excited, too, with some of the young talent we have here. Perry, Getzlaf and Ryan is already one of the best lines in hockey. Whitney and Beauchemin (assuming we do what we can to keep him) and Wisniewski, while none of them Prongs or Niedermayer, are all very solid D-men. And Hiller's amazing.

But HB is right, we have to do something about the second line. Ebbett's a nice start, but I'm still not sure how good he is on his own, without some of the talent with whom he has played. We have drafted well, IMO, under Burke, as he took a page from Belichek and traded down a ton to get a lot of talent in the system. But there's a gulf right now between those players arriving, and where we are now. Will we deal Prongs? Jiggy? Will some of the older vets come back?

And if not, if we end up with all the cap room that gives us, what do we do with it? Buy a couple costly forwards to get a second line? Not sure.

I am cautiously optimistic. But there are a lot of questions facing this franchise right now in the near future.

[Chief Rum]

*cough*Pronger*cough*

Heh...if it matters any, I hate Holmstrom and Chelios almost as much as you no doubt hate Pronger.

[Dr. Sak]

Since the team I rooted for in Round 1 lost...and same goes in Round 2....I say this loudly for the Conference Finals....

LETS GO PENS
LETS GO PENS
LETS GO PENS

[johnnyshaka]

LOL Hiller is a terrible actor. It was for sure a penalty on Hudler but he acted like he was re-enacting the JFK assassination with how he went down.

Just curious, after seeing the replay, do you still think Hudler deserved that penalty? Did Pronger's crosscheck have anything to do with the "interference"?

[DataKing]

Heh...if it matters any, I hate Holmstrom and Chelios almost as much as you no doubt hate Pronger.

Certainly understandable. And to be completely honest, my hatred of Pronger really has nothing at all to do with the Ducks. It stems back to his days in st. Louis, when he was a persistent and constant thorn on the Wings' collective sides.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am excited, too, with some of the young talent we have here. Perry, Getzlaf and Ryan is already one of the best lines in hockey. Whitney and Beauchemin (assuming we do what we can to keep him) and Wisniewski, while none of them Prongs or Niedermayer, are all very solid D-men. And Hiller's amazing.

But HB is right, we have to do something about the second line. Ebbett's a nice start, but I'm still not sure how good he is on his own, without some of the talent with whom he has played. We have drafted well, IMO, under Burke, as he took a page from Belichek and traded down a ton to get a lot of talent in the system. But there's a gulf right now between those players arriving, and where we are now. Will we deal Prongs? Jiggy? Will some of the older vets come back?

And if not, if we end up with all the cap room that gives us, what do we do with it? Buy a couple costly forwards to get a second line? Not sure.

I am cautiously optimistic. But there are a lot of questions facing this franchise right now in the near future.

Yeah, secondary scoring was the one thing that this team lacks. Other than Selanne, there really was no one who was all that dangerous or threatening in the entire series.

Depending on the cap space available, it would be spent wisely on building a second scoring line of some sort. A little offense from another line would help take the pressure off that monster (thanks Pierre!) top line.

If Burke was still there I would suggest the Sedins.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Certainly understandable. And to be completely honest, my hatred of Pronger really has nothing at all to do with the Ducks. It stems back to his days in st. Louis, when he was a persistent and constant thorn on the Wings' collective sides.

I never really hated Pronger during his St. Louis days, especially since the Wings always beat them in the playoffs. It really started after he joined Edmonton and carried on from there.

I also hate Correy Perry. He's a back-stabbing little rat. Despicable. Getzlaf just looks like a total frat boy asshole.

But it's pretty hard to hate Selanne or Scott Niedermayer (that elbow on Datsyuk aside) or Marchant and a bunch of their other guys. It's just those few rotten apples is all.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Well, if last night's Game 7 was horrible for the NHL, tonight's games have to be the greatest thing ever!

A couple of great games.

I do not envy Bruins or Canes fans here. At all.

[Galaxy]

Great game.

[DataKing]

I sincerely hope our resident Bruins and Canes fans haven't had to listen to Pierre for this entire series.

[Draft Dodger]

I sincerely hope our resident Bruins and Canes fans haven't had to listen to Pierre for this entire series.

I can't wait until he gets a GM job

[Tekneek]

It seems a little cheesy that Versus is showing a TSN feed for a game between two US-based teams.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ouch.

[Galaxy]

Nice hit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ward looked like a hitter fighting off an 0-2 pitch on his fists right there, got enough to foul it off & stay alive.

[sterlingice]

Post!

SI

[Galaxy]

Wow...

[DaddyTorgo]

suckass...way to blow Bruins

[Honolulu_Blue]

SUCKER PUNCH

[Galaxy]

WTF was Thomas doing?

[sterlingice]

Wow. There it goes

SI

[Tekneek]

Nice shot of Cam Neely.

[Tekneek]

WTF was Thomas doing?

Now that I have seen replays, it looks like he was trying to bat it away with his stick. Bad habit some goalies have gotten into...not making the safe play.

[samifan24]

I hate the Carolina franchise.

[Galaxy]

Now that I have seen replays, it looks like he was trying to bat it away with his stick. Bad habit some goalies have gotten into...not making the safe play.

Seemed like an easy, routine save to make.

[BishopMVP]

Seemed like an easy, routine save to make.Thomas was giving up terrible rebounds and lunging around all game long.

[muns]

True. This wasn't a series for pretty goals.

If you want that frilly shit, go watch Pittsburgh. ;)

you bastard :lol:

[Logan]

That was an awesome night of hockey.

[gstelmack]

Now that I have seen replays, it looks like he was trying to bat it away with his stick. Bad habit some goalies have gotten into...not making the safe play.

It's the same thing Cam Ward did on the tying goal.

[gstelmack]

I sincerely hope our resident Bruins and Canes fans haven't had to listen to Pierre for this entire series.

Canes fans get John Forslund and Tripp Tracy, at least when FSC deigns to show a game (at least they've shown all the playoff games, and some of them were even in HD :rant:). Versus has only shown the Canes when they've had no other option so far these playoffs...

The next time the NHL tries to claim they call the games throughout, they need to show the last few minutes of the third period and all of overtime of that game when the refs completely swallowed their whistles. I think the Canes were very lucky to get through the couple of minutes where the Bruins had figured this out but Carolina hadn't yet.

And that was a thrilling overtime period with both teams crashing the other net and neither playing it safe. Sooner or later someone was going to get the bounce, and I'm happy it was Carolina, but it could have gone either way. What a nice finish to the series. I did not think Carolina really stood a chance against Boston, so these playoffs are going nicely...

[RendeR]

suckass...way to blow Bruins



I told you the Bruins wouldn't make the finals DT.

[bbor]

Great F'N hockey

That's all i have to say.

[watravaler]

The next time the NHL tries to claim they call the games throughout, they need to show the last few minutes of the third period and all of overtime of that game when the refs completely swallowed their whistles. I think the Canes were very lucky to get through the couple of minutes where the Bruins had figured this out but Carolina hadn't yet.




Agreed, but it was fun to watch. Rules are the rules, no doubt, but that was drive/determination/effort/etc..at its absolute best, and the main reason I love hockey. I hate the wink-wink the NHL spews regarding the matter, but it's never going to change.

[gstelmack]

Agreed, but it was fun to watch. Rules are the rules, no doubt, but that was drive/determination/effort/etc..at its absolute best, and the main reason I love hockey. I hate the wink-wink the NHL spews regarding the matter, but it's never going to change.

For me it was a mixed bag. I was glad to see both teams go all out, but also hated everytime someone got hung up on a breakaway. I think in the end it was a wash.

Not really complaining, it was just an observation about how blatant it was vs. the NHL's typical public stance on it.

[DeToxRox]

Okay predictions ..

Detroit over Chicago in 6

I think Chicago puts up a fight like Pittsburgh did last year with a young team, but this is a perfect team for Detroit to face. I expect it to get ugly at times and lead to some real fun next year.

Carolina over Pittsburgh in 7.

Since the playoffs started Carolina has just been bringing it. I think they get enough defense to keep Crosby and Malkin in check as much as those two can be held in check, and Cam Ward steals 2 games to send us to a 2002 rematch.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, the WCF schedule is so terrible. I hate all these 3 day breaks between games.

[Fidatelo]

Dola, the WCF schedule is so terrible. I hate all these 3 day breaks between games.

This is how the NHL destroys the playoffs every year. They build up all this awesome momentum in rounds 1 and 2, then they string out the games for the last 2 rounds and have half of them on weekend afternoons. If these things go 7 games we aren't even _starting_ the finals until the 3rd or 4th of June. I love hockey, but who the fuck wants to sit inside on a saturday or sunday afternoon in May or June to watch hockey?

[Logan]

The good thing about not many people I know following hockey is that I can DVR the games and wait to watch at a convenient time without it being ruined.

[Peregrine]

I've got my tickets for Game 3 in Raleigh - should be awesome.

[DataKing]

I'm considering buying tickets for game 3 or 4 in Chicago...probably get mugged when I show up wearing a Wings jersey though. :D

Edit: Nevermind. I'd love to go to a game, but I'm not shelling out $220 per ticket. I'd just as soon spend the cash on lapdances during intermission.

[MikeVic]

This is how the NHL destroys the playoffs every year. They build up all this awesome momentum in rounds 1 and 2, then they string out the games for the last 2 rounds and have half of them on weekend afternoons. If these things go 7 games we aren't even _starting_ the finals until the 3rd or 4th of June. I love hockey, but who the fuck wants to sit inside on a saturday or sunday afternoon in May or June to watch hockey?

If the May weather is what we've had for the last couple of days, I'm fine with that. ;) haha. But really, I agree with you too. I forget which year it was, but I was a young kid watching the finals (maybe Canadiens/Kings), and the window for the front door was open, sun coming in... birds chirping, so nice and warm... and I'm inside watching the finals. The nice weather own out in the end and I ended up missing some of that series.

As for the playoffs this year, I'd like Chicago and Pittsburgh.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Well, after surviving Carolina and Washington, I'm looking forward to seeing how the Devils do in the playoffs against division rival Pittsburgh.

Oh.

[MikeVic]

Well, after surviving Carolina and Washington, I'm looking forward to seeing how the Devils do in the playoffs against division rival Pittsburgh.

Oh.

http://www.jwrworkings.com/hockey.jpg

[Suburban Rhythm]

I am excited, too, with some of the young talent we have here. Perry, Getzlaf and Ryan is already one of the best lines in hockey. Whitney and Beauchemin (assuming we do what we can to keep him) and Wisniewski, while none of them Prongs or Niedermayer, are all very solid D-men. And Hiller's amazing.

But HB is right, we have to do something about the second line. Ebbett's a nice start, but I'm still not sure how good he is on his own, without some of the talent with whom he has played. We have drafted well, IMO, under Burke, as he took a page from Belichek and traded down a ton to get a lot of talent in the system. But there's a gulf right now between those players arriving, and where we are now. Will we deal Prongs? Jiggy? Will some of the older vets come back?

And if not, if we end up with all the cap room that gives us, what do we do with it? Buy a couple costly forwards to get a second line? Not sure.

I am cautiously optimistic. But there are a lot of questions facing this franchise right now in the near future.

How did the ex-Pens turn out? Wasn't Christensen playing some on the 2nd line?

Kunitz was red hot in the regular season, snake bitten so far in the playoffs. He's still playing hard, but has no goals, 7 assts and is a minus player.

I still this turns out to be a win-win trade, possibly even tilted toward the Pens, we haven't seen Tangradi yet.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Dola

Prediction time

I look at Carolina and don't see anything that jumps out at me. Pitkanen isn't really a #1 guy, more of a #2. I like Gleason, and the other guys are good not great. I guess similar to their Cup year, seems like those guys are mostly interchangeable. Again, no #1 guy, but a #2, and a bunch of #3/4 types.

Up front, Staal has always been a Penguin killer. Will be interesting in games 1 and 2, with home ice, if Jordan and the 3rd line (with Cooke and Kennedy) are matched against Eric and the top line. After Staal, nobody really jumps out at me. There are a few players who have traditionally played well against Pittsburgh (Brindy and Samsonov). I mentioned to Sak earlier, Samsonov is exactly the type of player who seems to always step up against the Pens-- 2nd line, a little under the radar, but talented, and sometimes overlooked.

Ward is scary. He, IMO, will make or break the series. I think overall, the Penguins are the more talented team, but hot goaltending breaks that.

Still, I go with the homer vote: Pittsburgh in 6

Detroit I think was tested a little more than expected last round, but found a way to win. And they've done all of this with Datsyuk providing little offense. They are still, 1-20, the deepest team in the league. Guys like Franzen would see top D pairings nightly on every other team, but get great matchups against other pairings, and take advantage. I know I shouldn't but I still am questioning Osgood, but he's be light years better than he was 2 months ago.

Chicago reminds me alot of the 06-07 Pens, or 07-08 Caps, each which lost in Round 1 that year. Young and skilled up front (not quite to Pens level, but deeper), solid on D (edge to Chicago in comparison to Pittsburgh here) and a former Cup winner in goal (no longer a premier talent, but experience edge over Fleury). Seemed like a team that at the beginning of the playoffs was just happy to get in.

I don't want to pick the obvious and point towards a rematch...but I am.
Detroit in 6

[bhlloy]

How did the ex-Pens turn out? Wasn't Christensen playing some on the 2nd line?

Kunitz was red hot in the regular season, snake bitten so far in the playoffs. He's still playing hard, but has no goals, 7 assts and is a minus player.

I still this turns out to be a win-win trade, possibly even tilted toward the Pens, we haven't seen Tangradi yet.

Both have been pretty inconsistent so far IMO. Whitney has shown flashes of his offensive brilliance (when he's having one of those games where he's hitting all those crisp passes, he's dangerous and the power play really goes) but I wish he'd be a bit more physical.

Christensen is an enigma - he is clearly talented, but he also misses a lot of easy plays and just needs to shoot the damn puck sometimes. He's very easily pushed around and seems pretty unwilling to crash the net or work in the corners. For that reason, I don't see him staying on a Carlyle coached team for very long.

I think Pittsburgh will get the better of the trade long term because I really like Tangradi as a prospect, but I also think it was a move the Ducks needed to make. Kunitz just wasn't performing any more for whatever reason here.

[samifan24]

I'm rooting for the Blackhawks now. Oh, and Mark Recchi had surgery for a kidney stone the day before game seven and played in game seven. He also played with broken ribs. What a guy.

[gstelmack]

I've got my tickets for Game 3 in Raleigh - should be awesome.

My son has watched a bit of the playoffs with me and has asked to go to a game. Now my daughter wants to go, too. So I checked. Cheapest price for 4 tickets: $175 + $22 TicketMaster extortion. Each. So I'm looking at $800 BEFORE parking, hot dogs / popcorn, and souvenirs. Makes going to the circus or Disney On Ice look cheap.

So we'll take in a game early next season...