Why did you have kids?

[lurker]

It seems like the life of a parent is usually pretty difficult and most of the ones I know whine a lot, so I wonder why they did it. It almost seems like an irrational decision to give up a cushy life of sleeping in and relaxing for the responsibility of another life. For those of you that made the conscious decision to have children (not talking a whoops moment), what made you decide to do it and why then?

[path12]

Does Pass know about this? ;)

I only have stepkids, so I will excuse myself from the thread now.

[albionmoonlight]

We thought that having a child would bring joy into our lives through such things as being able to experience the world through their eyes and watching the child grow and learn and develop.

We considered not having children, and we delayed starting for career reasons, but the longer we waited, the more wrong it felt not to have kids. So we did. And, so far, it has been awesome.

[lungs]

Instincts. Mine haven't set in yet.

[gstelmack]

I wasn't all that lit up about it (ambivalent), my wife was very eager to have a family. I don't regret for one moment having done so. Yes, it's a lot of responsibility, you sleep less, you don't get to do as much of the things you used to love to do, and they can be cranky, but there is so much joy as well, from the first moment you hold them, through watching them learn to walk, to zooming around on their first bike and slamming in to the garage door (my almost-4-year-old needs to learn how to stop and steer...), there is just so much joy involved.

Watch Parenthood with Steve Martin. That might help.

We did wait until we were established as a married couple and in decent financial shape to support our children.

[lurker]

Pass is probably more ready for kids than I am, by the way, in case more people think I'm trying to talk him into something. :)

[PackerFanatic]

My mom has been a daycare provider for almost as long as I can remember, so I grew up around many kids (most of them were my younger cousins and friends of our family) I have always had a passion for kids, and I knew I would eventually have them. My wife was ready for them right away, and while I sometimes wish we would have waited a little bit (just because I enjoy sleep and going out and such), I don't regret it for one minute. I mean - how could you NOT love this face?

http://profile.ak.facebook.com/v224/246/113/n185005303_5114.jpg

Granted, every situation is different, and it totally depends on the kid(s) and the parents alike. But even at 23, I love being a dad and I wouldn't want it any other way.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

She said she was on the pill.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If you invest the proper time into raising your child, there's not a more rewarding endeavor than parenting. It's the best.

With that said, I wish more people would think about the consequences of having kids BEFORE they got pregnant. If that happened more often, our society would be much less dysfunctional as a whole.

[KWhit]

Raising a child is the most difficult thing I have ever and will ever do.

But it is by far the most rewarding. I cannot tell you how awesome it is to have a little KWhit and a little Mrs. KWhit running around learning about the world. And seeing yourself and your spouse reflected in their personalities is so freaking cool.



http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-uIEVfzpcVE/Sc_amAd3KZI/AAAAAAAADLQ/e9BYnm3Xs6I/s912/IMG_4193.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-uIEVfzpcVE/Sc_csJSPLgI/AAAAAAAADVg/ZOwKWPidik4/s720/IMG_4333.JPG

I mean, come on!

[SteveMax58]

We enjoyed most of our 20's kid-free and decided to have kids a couple of years before 30(wife and I are the same age). I think it was the right decision still, as we were able to get financially stable, gained some life experiences and maturity.

The things I did expect like watching them grow, learn, and experience things have all been as good or better than I expected...but the things I did not anticipate are the best. Things like my sons making me laugh because they have their own sense of humor (i.e. not just baby-cute funny), or asking me pointed & challenging questions that make me pause to answer or define for myself.

The best part is that I'll have 2 friends for life once they are adults (assuming I don't embarrass them too much) and I absolutely look forward to watching them grow into being, not just babies to kids to adults, but to people.

[lurker]

albionmoonlight, your comment about experiencing the world through their eyes is pretty much the only pro I can see.

Interesting answers, but it seems like most people are talking about the rewards you get after, and how they couldn't have predicted the feelings. That's pretty much what people IRL said when I asked them, but what I'm mainly curious about is why you originally decided to do it. Did you just trust everyone who said that it's amazing?

This really isn't to convince me or anyone, just thinking that it seems like it takes an incredible leap of faith to know it'll ultimately be rewarding when from the outside it's hard to see that. I wonder if it's instinct, that knowledge that it'll ultimately be worth it, thinking it's what's expected, or the cute factor that compels most.

[flere-imsaho]

Like Greg, I was pretty ambivalent, but my wife wanted kids. It's been hard work, but I'd say that starting at about four months (he's 8 months now) I felt the whole endeavor was, on balance, "worth it."

It's hard to explain why, though. In spite of all the sleep deprivation, frustration, loss of free time, etc... the little guy does bring a lot of joy into our lives. I love him with all my heart and couldn't imagine being without him (like I couldn't imagine being without my wife).


Oh, and it's only a matter of time before I can make him mow the lawn for me. :D

[flere-imsaho]

dola - I generally don't find babies cute, but I definitely find my baby cute. I've heard this is fairly common, especially among guys.

[King of New York]

To echo what others have said: having kids is the most rewarding experience that I have had. A relationship with your child is like no other relationship that you will ever have, because your child is the only person whom you will have known during every minute of his or her life.

There's a trade-off, though. With kids, you will have more satisfaction, less enjoyment; without kids, you will have more enjoyment, less satisfaction. Sure, one has fun moments with kids, but let's face it--you spend much more time attending to their needs than to your own. Everyone has to decide whether to make that trade-off.

[King of New York]

Oh, and as for what I was thinking beforehand--I honestly cannot remember. Parenthood destroys your brain cells, and I remember very little of my previous life.

[albionmoonlight]

lurker--one thing that I thought about before was that most people have more than one kid, so they must have thought that it was worth doing again after having the one.

I also think that more people have kids than should. I think that a lot of people just do it because you are supposed to do it, and that is not good for the parents or the kids.

[chesapeake]

Some tiny amount of intellectual reasoning went into the process, but mostly it was a visceral decision. When I hit my mid-30s, I simply knew that it was something I wanted to do. My wife came along more slowly.

That isn't to say that the decision wasn't scary. It was.

Deciding to have the second one was scarier. I know what I'm in for now.

[chesapeake]

dola - I generally don't find babies cute, but I definitely find my baby cute. I've heard this is fairly common, especially among guys.

Babies tend to look more like their fathers at first. So, really, it is only your own intrinsic narcissism at work. :)

[JediKooter]

They are good for landscaping and other manual labor type jobs around the house.

[lighthousekeeper]

Interesting answers, but it seems like most people are talking about the rewards you get after, and how they couldn't have predicted the feelings. That's pretty much what people IRL said when I asked them, but what I'm mainly curious about is why you originally decided to do it.

Despite what people like to think, isn't it probably because of these 2 reasons?

1. biological (assuming you have a libido/sex drive) - isn't it basically hardwired into us to have the drive to reproduce?
2. cultural

[Telle]

I always knew that I would someday be a mother. It was never a question for me. I actually had a very strong instinctual drive to procreate.. something that I had to steadfastly control once I became sexually active.

[lurker]

Despite what people like to think, isn't it probably because of these 2 reasons?

1. biological (assuming you have a libido/sex drive) - isn't it basically hardwired into us to have the drive to reproduce?
2. cultural

Yeah, I mentioned those as the first and third reason here:

I wonder if it's instinct, that knowledge that it'll ultimately be worth it, thinking it's what's expected, or the cute factor that compels most.

[Lorena]

What's the definition of family, really? A married couple? Married couple w/ kids? Married couple with pets? IMO, it makes the family unit complete which is why we did it.

[molson]

Despite what people like to think, isn't it probably because of these 2 reasons?

1. biological (assuming you have a libido/sex drive) - isn't it basically hardwired into us to have the drive to reproduce?
2. cultural

I'd guess that's what it comes down to - with #1 being the most important. It's interesting that the cultural reasons change through history to fit what's going on in the society at the time.

JediKooter made a joke about kids being useful as manual labor - when of course, that was a very compelling reason to have kids back in the day. Now, with that reason off the table, our culture has come up with other, more intangible stuff. Those kinds of reasons are secondary to the #1 reason that's been consistent throughout human history - we need to (except people like me for some reason - I'm a evolutionary mistake in that way)

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Yeah, I mentioned those as the first and third reason here: I wonder if it's instinct, that knowledge that it'll ultimately be worth it, thinking it's what's expected, or the cute factor that compels most.

I would say that reasons 2, 3, and 4 are just manifestations of reason 1.

[JediKooter]

I'd guess that's what it comes down to - with #1 being the most important. It's interesting that the cultural reasons change through history to fit what's going on in the society at the time.

JediKooter made a joke about kids being useful as manual labor - when of course, that was a very compelling reason to have kids back in the day. Now, with that reason off the table, our culture has come up with other, more intangible stuff. Those kinds of reasons are secondary to the #1 reason that's been consistent throughout human history - we need to (except people like me for some reason - I'm a evolutionary mistake in that way)

All joking aside...I don't know why other than it feels right and that a little bit of me will live on into the future after I am gone.

[flere-imsaho]

Babies tend to look more like their fathers at first. So, really, it is only your own intrinsic narcissism at work. :)

I can live with that. :D

They are good for landscaping and other manual labor type jobs around the house.

:+1: The key is to set the bar low with regard to remuneration. Make them believe that a nickel for 8 hours of weeding is fair recompense so that when you offer them a quarter for taking out the trash, mowing and weeding (all weekly) they think OMG AWESOME!!!

By the way, it would be really great if no one told my wife I said that.




:D

[Galaril]

All joking aside...I don't know why other than it feels right and that a little bit of me will live on into the future after I am gone.

I think for me personally it was always a driving force and the fact we can pass along alot of the wisdom we hopefully have learned through our own fuck ups. Yet, we all know kids often sadly repeat many parents mistakes. But still, being able to teach our kids as we feel is appropriate to make them as they say well rounded citizens of this planet we all live and in the end maybe some of them can make it a better place in the next generation or so.........Or maybe just because of Tequilla

[flere-imsaho]

I look at it this way: if they don't take my hard-earned advice, then at least I'll get some entertainment out of mocking them for their own mistakes. Basically it's a win-win. :D

[Subby]

All of the childless people I know are completely self-absorbed and irritating as shit and I didn't want to end up like that.

[Maple Leafs]

I wanted to be able to play with toys and build shit with lego and lay on the floor and sing songs during my spare time and still have people think I was contributing something to society. This was pretty much the only workaround I could come up with.

[molson]

All of the childless people I know are completely self-absorbed and irritating as shit and I didn't want to end up like that.

It wouldn't be self-absorbed to bring a life into the world to promote one's own happiness?

There was an interesting thread on this a while ago, about whether the decision to have children is selfish - it was an interesting discussion, but I couldn't find it just now.

[Subby]

It wouldn't be self-absorbed to bring a life into the world to promote one's own happiness?
No that's biological instinct. Self-absorbed is being able to have kids and choosing the easy way out.

[sterlingice]

All of the childless people I know are completely self-absorbed and irritating as shit and I didn't want to end up like that.

Yeah, see I was going to say that a lot of the parents I knew were also self-absorbed, irritating-as-shit people who used won't somebody please thing of (MY!) children to justify stupid, selfish things. :D

SI

[SteveMax58]

It wouldn't be self-absorbed to bring a life into the world to promote one's own happiness?

There was an interesting thread on this a while ago, about whether the decision to have children is selfish - it was an interesting discussion, but I couldn't find it just now.

[Slight threadjack]
That sounds like an interesting discussion to read. My inclination is to believe that everything we do can be technically viewed as selfish. Even sacrificing one's own health for another could be viewed as selfishly feeding one's ego or self-importance. Hmm...
[/Slight threadjack]

[Subby]

Yeah, see I was going to say that a lot of the parents I knew were also self-absorbed, irritating-as-shit people who used won't somebody please thing of (MY!) children to justify stupid, selfish things. :D

SI
Yes, this is a great point. :D

[spleen1015]

My parents suck. I wanted to see if I do.

[KWhit]

All of the childless people I know are completely self-absorbed and irritating as shit and I didn't want to end up like that.

True dat.

We've had a few disagreements with my sister-in-law about stuff like this. She seems to think that it's okay to miss her niece and nephew's birthday party while complaining to us that we only came to one night of her two night grand opening of her hair salon. Ergo, I seem to think it's okay to tell her to go fuck herself.

[lurker]

No that's biological instinct. Self-absorbed is being able to have kids and choosing the easy way out.

I'd say the easy way out is to just go along with everyone and have kids and do a crappy job raising them.

[KWhit]

I'd say the easy way out is to just go along with everyone and have kids and do a crappy job raising them.

The 'easy way out' is not having kids. It's a tough job, even if you do a crappy job of it.

[sterlingice]

Yes, this is a great point. :D

(ok, this might result in a bit of a threadjack, but what the heck)

It's actually my greatest fear to my current self when I eventually become a parent. People change when they become parents, some grow up and learn responsibility that they never had. Some learn about compassion, love, and other feelings they've never experienced. And some become giant selfish people who seem so blinded by the "my child is the most important person in the entire world" that they lose all perspective that there are other people in the world.

A minor tangent from this- my wife and I have had the following conversation before. We had just seen a show or local news story were the mom did something crazy to save some year old kid, something that put the parent's life significantly more at risk to have a small incremental increase for the kid- something like charging into a collapsing burning building where there was a slim chance of success or crossing a freeway (high risk) to save kid who, realistically, was safe and would remain so, provided the mom would have kept her head long enough to wait for the cops to help.

I told her something to the effect of: "Don't you ever do anything like that. It makes no sense. When the kid is 1, I'll have known you something like 15 years to its one of basically being a eating/sleeping/pooping loaf of bread. If I have a choice of only one of you surviving a situation- it's going to be you 100 times out of 100."

And I know the parents will say that you just have no idea and you can't possibly know until you have a kid. But, frankly, from the "outside looking in"- that perspective makes no sense whatsoever to me and that people think that's normal and rational kindof scares me.

SI

[molson]

No that's biological instinct. Self-absorbed is being able to have kids and choosing the easy way out.

Really? By not having kids, one's a slacker? The world has plenty of kids, I think it will be fine without mine.

I think (good) parents, who have the resources to take care of their kids, are amazing. Thank god for them, it gives the future of the world a shot. Bad parents, who can barely support themselves, drive me crazy. I've seen so many kids that come through the system that just have NO CHANCE, we should lock 'em up right now.

[sterlingice]

Really? By not having kids, one's a slacker? The world has plenty of kids, I think it will be fine without mine.

I think (good) parents, who have the resources to take care of their kids, are amazing. Thank god for them, it gives the future of the world a shot. Bad parents, who can barely support themselves, drive me crazy. I've seen so many kids that come through the system that just have NO CHANCE, we should lock 'em up right now.

Lock up whom? Kids, parents, or both?

Reproduction has always seemed so backwards to me. One of the hardest things in the world (i.e. raising a good, productive member of society) is so difficult and yet it's *not* getting pregnant that comes with the proverbial child proof cap.

*Shakes fist at God and nature!*

SI

[Subby]

I'd say the easy way out is to just go along with everyone and have kids and do a crappy job raising them.
Most self-absorbed people think this way.

[SunDevil]

Seriously, I just searched this thread the word alcohol is not mentioned once.......... :D

[Subby]

Seriously though - as long as you don't let them eat dinner in front of the tv, you are ahead of the parenting curve.

[molson]

Seriously though - as long as you don't let them eat dinner in front of the tv, you are ahead of the parenting curve.

I'd say if they're not born with a substance addiction, you're already doing OK.

[lurker]

The 'easy way out' is not having kids. It's a tough job, even if you do a crappy job of it.

I was disagreeing with Subby's assertion that it's the easy way out to not have kids when you're able to. I really think it's a stronger person who decides not to have kids than the one who just does because it's expected. It may ultimately be more work for them, but it is the lazy way out.

[lurker]

Seriously though - as long as you don't let them eat dinner in front of the tv, you are ahead of the parenting curve.

Ooh, clever reference. I guess I would say as long as I'm a parent who doesn't get all riled up about one or two key issues that happen to affect me personally, but am an asshole about everything else, I'm ahead of a lot of people around here.

[SunDevil]

And to add on to my previous comment, you mean to tell me not one baby has resulted from the epic "Ping Drunk Guy" thread...... :D

[Subby]

I was disagreeing with Subby's assertion that it's the easy way out to not have kids when you're able to. I really think it's a stronger person who decides not to have kids than the one who just does because it's expected. It may ultimately be more work for them, but it is the lazy way out.
If you and Pass ever have kids, please get back to me after the 2nd one is at least 3 or 4 and then let me know if you want to rethink that one.

[gkb]

By keeping my wife pregnant I prevented Pumpy from knocking her up. Married in 2005, child 1 in 2006, child 2 in 2007, child 3 in 2008. Take that Pumpy!

[lurker]

No that's biological instinct. Self-absorbed is being able to have kids and choosing the easy way out.

Getting back to the point, do you seriously think that just because someone is physically able to procreate, it's their duty? Do you not see how many messed up parents there are?

[spleen1015]

There is no way that having a kid just because it's what everyone else is doing is much easier than not having them at all.

[molson]

There is no way that having a kid just because it's what everyone else is doing is much easier than not having them at all.

I think we're talking about the decision to have kids. If it's what you're "supposed" to do, it might be the easier decision to make, regardless of the work that goes into it afterwards.

[lurker]

If you and Pass ever have kids, please get back to me after the 2nd one is at least 3 or 4 and then let me know if you want to rethink that one.

Yeah, I just said "it may ultimately be more work." Try reading an entire sentence before making your quips.

[spleen1015]

I don't see one way being easier than the other, then.

When you say you're "supposed" to have kids, who determines that "supposed" to? Is that family pressure? Society?

[molson]

I don't see one way being easier than the other, then.

When you say you're "supposed" to have kids, who determines that "supposed" to? Is that family pressure? Society?

Ya, I think both, all that.

There was a similar back and forth here the last time this came up here. The question was whether deciding to have kids was selfish, and the response was about how hard parents work, after the fact of that decision.

Is is selfless or selfish to create life out of thin air to take care of? The kid didn't need to be taken care of before you created it.

And is selfless or selfish to choose not to have kids? I mean you're focussing on yourself, but you're not exactly neglecting anyone else (and you may have more time to make the world better in other ways, and you may have more money to donate charitably). You also might think that you wouldn't be a good parent, or don't have the appropriate financial stablity. That seems like the opposite of selfish.

[Passacaglia]

The 'easy way out' is not having kids. It's a tough job, even if you do a crappy job of it.

I don't get it. Of what is it the 'easy way out'?

[spleen1015]

I never felt like there was any sort of pressure to have kids. I've never felt like it was something I was supposed to do. It was always something I wanted to do.

I have never thought less of folks who didn't want to have them either.

[Passacaglia]

We thought that having a child would bring joy into our lives through such things as being able to experience the world through their eyes and watching the child grow and learn and develop.

We considered not having children, and we delayed starting for career reasons, but the longer we waited, the more wrong it felt not to have kids. So we did. And, so far, it has been awesome.

That seems strange. What was it that made it feel wrong?

[Subby]

Yeah, I just said "it may ultimately be more work." Try reading an entire sentence before making your quips.
I read the whole thing. You can put all of the qualifiers you want in there and I still think you are off-base.

If you think you are going to be a shitty parent, by all means, do not have kids. Just don't try and pawn it off as some noble or strong choice because you will come off as a self-absorbed idiot.

Anyway, I have no idea what the purpose of this thread was, but if you wanted to come off as a condescending, over-analytical shrew you completely succeeded.

[spleen1015]

I read the whole thing. You can put all of the qualifiers you want in there and I still think you are off-base.

If you think you are going to be a shitty parent, by all means, do not have kids. Just don't try and pawn it off as some noble or strong choice because you will come off as a self-absorbed idiot.

Anyway, I have no idea what the purpose of this thread was, but if you wanted to come off as a condescending, over-analytical shrew you completely succeeded.

Cock sucker.

[KWhit]

Yeah, I just said "it may ultimately be more work." Try reading an entire sentence before making your quips.

"May ultimately" be more work?

Seriously?

It is like 100x more work from day one. I don't know how that would be in doubt.

[JediKooter]

I think for me personally it was always a driving force and the fact we can pass along alot of the wisdom we hopefully have learned through our own fuck ups. Yet, we all know kids often sadly repeat many parents mistakes. But still, being able to teach our kids as we feel is appropriate to make them as they say well rounded citizens of this planet we all live and in the end maybe some of them can make it a better place in the next generation or so.........Or maybe just because of Tequilla

I like the Tequilla defense.

Even though they are not my biological children, I spoil my step daughters and treat them as if they were my own flesh and blood. Their dad is around, but, in a very 'hands off' way, even though he only lives about 15 minutes away from us, which just absolutely perplexes me. He's got a daughter who is an awesome musician and artist, never shows up to her performances. His youngest daughter is a damn good softball player and never shows up to any of her games. Heck, I flew out to St. Louis one year with her so she could join her team for the Nationals, he didn't even offer to take her or help pay, yet, he had time to take his new wife and new kids to England to visit family. :banghead:

What's my point? I'm just trying to be a positive male role model for them and hopefully they can tell the difference between a good man vs someone who treats them like crap when all is said and done.

Ok, now that I re-read my post, I'm not even sure if I'm on topic and am just ranting...

[KWhit]

I don't get it. Of what is it the 'easy way out'?

I was responding to the statement that suggested that the easy way out was just to go with the flow and have kids. That's wrong-headed on a LOT of levels.

I suppose that thought process may have led to someone having children just to appease one's parents or spouse, but it is the absolute worst way to approach the decision. There is nothing easy about having a child and to suggest that "the easy way out" is having a child and the "tough thing to do" is to decide not to have one is really off-base, IMO.

[lurker]

I read the whole thing. You can put all of the qualifiers you want in there and I still think you are off-base.

You obviously didn't, since you put in the smug parental line of getting back to you after having kids -- I acknowledged it'd be more work after the fact.

If you think you are going to be a shitty parent, by all means, do not have kids. Just don't try and pawn it off as some noble or strong choice because you will come off as a self-absorbed idiot.

Anyway, I have no idea what the purpose of this thread was, but if you wanted to come off as a condescending, over-analytical shrew you completely succeeded.

Actually, I think I'll be a great parent, but I do think it's a strong choice to not produce more unthinking idiots out there. And I think pretty much everyone is in agreement on that.

And if over-analytical is supposed to be an insult, I can't imagine how little you use your mind. The purpose of this thread was pretty well laid out in the initial post. Feel free not to contribute if it enrages you so much.

[lurker]

"May ultimately" be more work?

Seriously?

It is like 100x more work from day one. I don't know how that would be in doubt.


I shouldn't have used the word "may" in there. But I do think too many people don't think about how much work it'll be and if they did, they might not do it.

[Passacaglia]

I was responding to the statement that suggested that the easy way out was just to go with the flow and have kids. That's wrong-headed on a LOT of levels.

I suppose that thought process may have led to someone having children just to appease one's parents or spouse, but it is the absolute worst way to approach the decision. There is nothing easy about having a child and to suggest that "the easy way out" is having a child and the "tough thing to do" is to decide not to have one is really off-base, IMO.

Yeah, I guess it was Subby that used the phrase 'easy way out' first, so the question was really for both of you. What is it that you're getting 'out of' by not having kids, anyway? When you put it that way, it sounds like you're saying that the reason for having kids is because you're expected to (i.e. it's that expectation that you're trying to take the 'easy way out' of), but I could be reading you guys wrong.

[SackAttack]

Actually, I think I'll be a great parent, but I do think it's a strong choice to not produce more unthinking idiots out there. And I think pretty much everyone is in agreement on that.

Even speaking as one who currently has no plans for children, I have to ask - would an unthinking idiot be capable of rationalizing the need for fewer unthinking idiots via reproduction?

Further, is it possible for an individual to weigh those pros and cons, say "having kids is the right thing," and still be an unthinking idiot?

[molson]

I was responding to the statement that suggested that the easy way out was just to go with the flow and have kids. That's wrong-headed on a LOT of levels.

I suppose that thought process may have led to someone having children just to appease one's parents or spouse, but it is the absolute worst way to approach the decision. There is nothing easy about having a child and to suggest that "the easy way out" is having a child and the "tough thing to do" is to decide not to have one is really off-base, IMO.

Not to speak for anyone else, but I think that point was just directed towards the claim that not having kids is the "easy way out", when many times, that's not an easy decision. That idea also bizarely implies a duty to have kids if one is able, which is just an awful idea. I'd probably like to have kids if I was rich and didn't have to work, but I feel so overwhelmed by life as it is that I don't feel I'd ever be able to devote the proper energy to parenting. Yes, it would be way harder to to have kids so in that sense I'm "taking the easy way out", but I resent the reference that that makes someone self-absorbed, and in denial of his duty.

[Pumpy Tudors]

By keeping my wife pregnant I prevented Pumpy from knocking her up. Married in 2005, child 1 in 2006, child 2 in 2007, child 3 in 2008. Take that Pumpy!
See, you had to go and pull me into this thread. I wasn't going to respond because I can't answer the original question (I don't have kids, so I can't answer "Why did you have kids?"), but now I'm here.

And yeah, I kept checking in on her every few months, and she always had another kid in her. Pissed me off!

[KWhit]

Yeah, I guess it was Subby that used the phrase 'easy way out' first, so the question was really for both of you. What is it that you're getting 'out of' by not having kids, anyway? When you put it that way, it sounds like you're saying that the reason for having kids is because you're expected to (i.e. it's that expectation that you're trying to take the 'easy way out' of), but I could be reading you guys wrong.

Yeah, I think my usage of the term (which has been really just in response to quoted posters - mainly lurker, I think) was really ignoring any connotation that that easy way out means that you're shirking a responsibility or anything. In my posts, "easy way out" could really be replaced with the "easy decision" or something like that.

Because really, and I can't stress this enough in this thread. LIFE IS MUCH MUCH MUCH EASIER WITHOUT KIDS.

Now, I've already said that I wouldn't change anything and I think my kids are the greatest thing in the world, but imagine your life today. Then add about 5000 small tasks to that day that have to get done. They aren't hard - most of them anyway. But they have to be done. That ain't easy.

[lurker]

Because really, and I can't stress this enough in this thread. LIFE IS MUCH MUCH MUCH EASIER WITHOUT KIDS.


That's why we don't have kids yet. :) Which is pretty much how I got to wondering how anyone decides to say "hey, let's get signed up for a couple of decades of massive work."

[Mustang]

That's why we don't have kids yet. :) Which is pretty much how I got to wondering how anyone decides to say "hey, let's get signed up for a couple of decades of massive work."

For me, it just boils down to because I wanted to.

There are a lot of things that are a massive amount of work that people sign up to do, but people still do it because they want to. At 25 I wanted nothing to do with kids, at 35 I did. I had no set plan that said I had to have kids or needed kids or pressure. I just wanted kids.

Is what it is I guess...

[path12]

My ex and I debated kids quite a bit. Her son was 7 when we moved in together, a few years before we got married. I quickly realized that I'm too damn selfish of my own time to have any more.

Luckily, Ms.path's son was 16 when we met (22 now). That made things much easier. The fact that we'll be under 50 when he finally graduates from college is a bonus. I think it is almost easier to have kids when you're young and don't know better. :)

[Swaggs]

I do not have children yet, but when I do it will be to pass on my vast fortune (which I also do not have yet).

[chesapeake]

(ok, this might result in a bit of a threadjack, but what the heck)

A minor tangent from this- my wife and I have had the following conversation before. We had just seen a show or local news story were the mom did something crazy to save some year old kid, something that put the parent's life significantly more at risk to have a small incremental increase for the kid- something like charging into a collapsing burning building where there was a slim chance of success or crossing a freeway (high risk) to save kid who, realistically, was safe and would remain so, provided the mom would have kept her head long enough to wait for the cops to help.

I told her something to the effect of: "Don't you ever do anything like that. It makes no sense. When the kid is 1, I'll have known you something like 15 years to its one of basically being a eating/sleeping/pooping loaf of bread. If I have a choice of only one of you surviving a situation- it's going to be you 100 times out of 100."

And I know the parents will say that you just have no idea and you can't possibly know until you have a kid. But, frankly, from the "outside looking in"- that perspective makes no sense whatsoever to me and that people think that's normal and rational kindof scares me.

SI

You have no idea and you can't possibly know until you have a kid. ;)

Seriously, though, if my almost 3 yo daughter were in a burning house and she was going to die but there was a 1 percent chance that I could save her by running in and probably dying myself, I would run into the house 100 times out of 100. No question. I would not want to live the rest of my life knowing that my daughter could have survived if I had taken action, even if the odds were ridiculously against both of us.

I doubt it would be a rational thinking process, anyway. That sense of protectiveness and sacrifice is probably in our hard wiring as humans, as is the need to procreate.

[Mustang]

Seriously, though, if my almost 3 yo daughter were in a burning house and she was going to die but there was a 1 percent chance that I could save her by running in and probably dying myself, I would run into the house 100 times out of 100. No question. I would not want to live the rest of my life knowing that my daughter could have survived if I had taken action, even if the odds were ridiculously against both of us.

I doubt it would be a rational thinking process, anyway. That sense of protectiveness and sacrifice is probably in our hard wiring as humans, as is the need to procreate.

+1

I find it completely irrational to not want to do this.

[duckman]

Condom broke.

Seriously, I was dating my ex when she got pregnant. She had talked about wanting to have a baby even though we were not married. I was not thrilled about the idea. Of course when you don't wear a condom like I was prone to do back then, you tend to have those type of things happened.

Now that he's here, I wouldn't trade him for all the wealth in the world. He makes me want to pull what hair I have left at times, but I really like having him around. I took him on a road trip to Corpus Christi during spring break. We had such a great time! We told jokes and listen to music in the car. We swam in the bay when we got there. It reminded me how special the relationship between parents and their children.

[boberot]

Why have kids, if it's so much work?

* A small percentage for me was knowing I could parent 100x better than my own parents, and being driven to do so from a fairly young age.

* I have a few friends who just idolize their dads, and I've always known that I would make it a high priority to give my kids everything they needed to have very happy, fruitful lives. And I'm not talking in terms of material things.

* There's definitely an instinct to see little iterations of myself in the world, molded by my influence. It's great to see them turning into the amazing, talented little people they are.

* There is no better way to quell one's inherent need to be silly / goofy / immature / play with toys / etc than with one's children. For about a decade, I would mold ongoing serial bedtime stories that would go on night after night for months on end, all just spontaneously. As somebody who writes as part of my day-to-day job, it's a fun and rewarding way to tap into that part of myself. And the kids loved it.

* Every day after work, my nearly 14-year-old son greets me at the door with a hug. I guess you either see the value in that or you don't.

* I have occasional visions of being the patriarchal "grandpa" of the family. Huge masses of my children and their children coming to the house for holidays. That is a very appealing thought.

* The bond with one's child really is miraculously powerful. Sure, I didn't know that before I had children, but I definitely sensed it would be so. It's an awesome, awesome relationship.

* I don't feel I've really had to sacrifice anything to be a parent. If I wanna go to the bar and have a few beers and shoot some pool, every now and then I do it. If I wanna catch a concert and get lit with buddies, every once in a while I do it. I don't feel the need to be out on the party circuit twice a weekend and whenever else.

* All that being said, it's kind of sad to me that this seems to be "single = selfish asshole" and "married = smug prick." I'd like to think it's more nuanced than that. I have plenty of friends who [currently] have no desire to have children. There is nothing "wrong" with that. Some people just aren't cut out to be parents. I don't think it's fair to place any value judgment on that.

Sorry to ramble . . . .

[digamma]

We're working on this decision now. Let me give you a few of my reasons for wanting to start a family. Some have been mentioned in this thread.

1. As albion pointed out, I'd be thrilled to experience life through the eyes of a child, and in particular, my child.

2. I want my parents and my wife's parents to have the joy of being a grandparent, in part because I remember the great relationship I had with my grandparents and in part because I know how much it would mean to my parents.

3. I think my wife and I are blessed with a pretty good set of genes, and maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'd like to see what the combination of those produce.

4. I'm a happy person, and some speed bumps aside, I've had a fantastic life. I want to give someone else the joy/experience that is living.

5. There is an old saying (maybe it comes from Rome or Greece), something along the lines of, "I am a soldier, so my son can be a farmer and his son can be a poet." I know that my parents worked hard to give me a life better than what they experienced. I hope I'm still in the early stages of my career, but I've worked hard to be able to do the same. It's exciting to me to think I might be able to provide that sort of opportunity to my child.

6. It's a freaking fantastic time to be alive. There is so much exciting stuff out there from technological advances to the relative ease of travel. Why wouldn't I want someone else to experience that?

7. I've got a lot of love to give.

8. I think I'll be a good parent. That sort of makes it my duty to try to raise a kid who will be a contributing member to the community (be it locally or globally).

9. I'm sick of being a self-absorbed prick.

[jeheinz72]

If I didn't have kids, who would take out the trash and do the dishes?

Plus the tax benefits!

It's a no brainer!

[jeheinz72]

In all seriousness, for us it was a no-brainer. I couldn't have envisioned the path of my life without it including being a parent. I'm a goofball. I have a lot of goofyness to give.

[Castlerock]

You have no idea and you can't possibly know until you have a kid. ;)

Seriously, though, if my almost 3 yo daughter were in a burning house and she was going to die but there was a 1 percent chance that I could save her by running in and probably dying myself, I would run into the house 100 times out of 100. No question. I would not want to live the rest of my life knowing that my daughter could have survived if I had taken action, even if the odds were ridiculously against both of us.

I doubt it would be a rational thinking process, anyway. That sense of protectiveness and sacrifice is probably in our hard wiring as humans, as is the need to procreate.
I would do the same thing. No way you are keeping me out of that house. The only thing that *might* slow me down would be thinking that I could be leaving my other child without a father. But I'm not sure I would even consider that at the time and not sure if it would matter either.

[I. J. Reilly]

Another reason I haven’t seen mentioned is the fear of growing old without someone to take care of you. For my wife and I this was certainly part of the equation, though by no means a deciding factor. It was probably more prevalent in our thinking because of her job, she worked as a speech pathologist in a retirement home, but I would bet that it at least subconsciously factors in to a lot of peoples decision.

So, I guess that’s one more tick for the selfish-parents column.

[flere-imsaho]

All of the childless people I know are completely self-absorbed and irritating as shit and I didn't want to end up like that.

So, at first I thought you were joking, or at least semi-joking, but now I'm not so sure.... :eek:

I shouldn't have used the word "may" in there. But I do think too many people don't think about how much work it'll be and if they did, they might not do it.

AMEN. Even worse are the people who say "You know, our marriage isn't going well, but if we have kids, it'll all be better." NO IT WILL NOT.


Plus the tax benefits!

Can't believe I forgot about this. How can one forget his/her bouncing little tax deduction? :D

[jeheinz72]

Can't believe I forgot about this. How can one forget his/her bouncing little tax deduction? :D

No doubt!

My daughter was born New Years Eve, 2004. That fact alone was some nice savings. Half for diapers, half for Daddy. That's a fair deal.

[Noop]

Subby, I think you're wrong. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to have kids, it's lifestyle(for lack of a better word) some people don't want. I mean if its wrong to not want children then is it wrong to be single?

[CamEdwards]

I have a very good friend who, along with his wife, have decided that they are not interested in having kids. It's a shame, because they're both very bright, creative, generous, and kind individuals. The world needs more of them, frankly, but they're not interested in reproducing. On some level, I do think it's selfish, but what are you going to do? We're still allowed to be selfish.

[flere-imsaho]

We're still allowed to be selfish.

You must have missed the last election results.

AMIRITE?!?! :D

[DanGarion]

[somewhat sarcastic]
I commend all you parents, you have taken your civil duty of expanding the herd in your own hands. You deserve awards! Honestly you deserve all your tax breaks!

My wife and I are just a selfish couple that have so far decided we don't want kids and for that we should be flogged for we are detrimental to society!
[/sarcasm]

[jeheinz72]

[somewhat sarcastic]
I commend all you parents, you have taken your civil duty of expanding the herd in your own hands. You deserve awards! Honestly you deserve all your tax breaks!

My wife and I are just a selfish couple that have so far decided we don't want kids and for that we should be flogged for we are detrimental to society!
[/sarcasm]

Great, we're on the same page!

Let the flogging begin!

[DanGarion]

Subby, I think you're wrong. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to have kids, it's lifestyle(for lack of a better word) some people don't want. I mean if its wrong to not want children then is it wrong to be single?

If it's wrong to not have children, then I guess our society should just start killing those of us that can't have children. Since they can't contribute to adding more to the herd.

[grdawg]

I think its funny that a few people have mentioned that they were ambivalent and their wife pushed having kids. My wife definetly pushed having kids, but I didn't even think about having kids until I met her. All my friends seem to be in the same boat now (30s, 1 kid under 2) and a lot of them were pretty freaked out originally. When I found out it was going to be a boy, that made it a lot easier for me. I would have no problems having girls, but to have a boy first was comforting. I was the last person (that we know of) to carry on the family name so now that I have a boy, the name lives on. I kept saying that I had no idea how to be a father, but immediately after he was born, it kicked in and actually was easier then I expected. Now that he is 18 months and approaching the terrible 2s, it is a lot more work. He is so active and is constantly on the go, but I wouldn't trade fatherhood for anything. I lost my father when I was 7 so I can't wait for him to experience everything with me that I wasn't able to with my father.

[Subby]

If it's wrong to not have children, then I guess our society should just start killing those of us that can't have children. Since they can't contribute to adding more to the herd.
I actually think it's a pretty good idea that you have decided not to have kids.

[sterlingice]

I'd be more in favor of killing those who *shouldn't* have had kids (and presumably their offspring) but I think that we might well below 0 population growth.

SI

[DanGarion]

I actually think it's a pretty good idea that you have decided not to have kids.

That's great, I'm glad I don't care what you think. ;)

[DanGarion]

I'd be more in favor of killing those who *shouldn't* have had kids (and presumably their offspring) but I think that we might well below 0 population growth.

SI

+1

[Pumpy Tudors]

If I wanted somebody to shit on me, I'd just resurrect my grandmother.

OH I AM SO EDGY

[molson]

I'd be more in favor of killing those who *shouldn't* have had kids (and presumably their offspring) but I think that we might well below 0 population growth.

SI

Ya, I think the order of preference in terms of benefit to soceity is clearly:

1. Good parents who have good kids
2. People who don't have kids
3. Bad parents and/or Bad kids

Unfortunately, every parent think they're #1, when most definitely aren't. #1is great is you can pull it off, and a disaster if you can't (and it's not always the parents' fault when the kid goes bad), and #2 is an admirable choice as well. #3 causes pretty much all the problems in the world. It takes a lot for a person to be a net gain to society, we start far in the hole as a consumer/polluter.

[Karlifornia]

Put me down for choosing the easy way out whenever possible.

[Cringer]

Can't say I/we had any great plan or reasons behind having a kid. If you want to break it down, my daughter was not planned but when no prevention is used it's not something that was a big surprise either. We were going to get to it eventually, we just knew that. The only problem on my end was when the topic was first brought up and she said she wanted 8. I crapped my pants, but thankfully got out of that one in the long run.

The second kid, a boy, will be here in a couple months. Almost ten years after my daughter. That wasn't planned either, but since I didn't have anything to do once my daughter was out of the house in eight years or so I am fine with it. Honestly, the way I am I would be pretty bored without kids around right now.

[Subby]

You need about 50 categories there, not three.

[sterlingice]

Can't say I/we had any great plan or reasons behind having a kid. If you want to break it down, my daughter was not planned but when no prevention is used it's not something that was a big surprise either. We were going to get to it eventually, we just knew that. The only problem on my end was when the topic was first brought up and she said she wanted 8. I crapped my pants, but thankfully got out of that one in the long run.

The second kid, a boy, will be here in a couple months. Almost ten years after my daughter. That wasn't planned either, but since I didn't have anything to do once my daughter was out of the house in eight years or so I am fine with it. Honestly, the way I am I would be pretty bored without kids around right now.

Sounds like you got off pretty easy:

How many?
"Eleventy billion, I mean 8!"
"Uh... I dunno. Greater than 1, less than 8."
"2 it is..."

Good negotiating skills :D

[Sun Tzu]

Some people want to have kids, and some people don't. They have their varying reasons. Some of the people who choose not to have kids, would be great parents...an even better parent than you are. On the other hand some of the people who choose not to have kids wouldn't be great parents. The same goes for people who choose to have kids. Life in general is no more satisfying with or without kids, and life in general is no more enjoyable either.

If you have kids and you find your life became more satisfying than it was without kids, then I'm happy for you. If you don't have kids and you find your life both enjoyable and satisfying, I'm happy for you. Just don't touch my beer and don't look at my cards.

[sabotai]

1. Good parents who have good kids
2. People who don't have kids
3. Bad parents and/or Bad kids

You need about 50 categories there, not three.

1. Good parents who have good kids
2. People who don't have kids
3. Bad parents and/or Bad kids
4-49: Various politicians and entertainers who think they are experts in everything.
50. Subby

[ColtCrazy]

I'm not sure what drove me to have kids. As far as family backgrounds, my wife and I couldn't have been farther apart. I am an only child, and she is one of 4 children. I'm used to having my way, she is used to sharing. Perhaps that's why she puts up with me, but that's for another thread.

Because of her family history, she was very excited about starting her own family. Originally, she wanted 4, I wanted two, and we compromised for 3. We had a son in 2004, a daughter in 2006, and I'll be damned if my wife didn't get her way because we are having twins in June (she's a twin...it's a conspiracy).

Seeing the way my son looks up to me, and how we get along, I can't imagine life without my kids. And considering what all we went through with our daughter's birth, and dealing with her aniridia, we just love watching her grow, get stronger, and adapt to the world around her with her limited vision.

Having kids is a blessing for us. I have no idea how we'll handle 4, but I had no idea how I'd handle one. We'll cope, because we always have before. :)

[gstelmack]

I don't know if I've told this story, but this thread seems an appropriate place.

3 years ago we redid my daughter's room. She was 3-and-a-half and already showed a good eye for color. When she picks out clothes, you always think it's a horrible combo until she puts them on, and the outfit looks awesome. She's been picking her own outfits since she was about 1 and could walk into the closet. So we let her help. She picked a light purple for the walls, a dark purple for the trim, a cool "bedtime dragon" border (dragons brushing teeth, taking a bath, and getting ready for bed), and some purplish fairy switchplate covers.

We took the furniture out and painted the room with her helping to do all the walls (she was great with a roller). I then did all the trim, switchplate covers, and hung the border, with a bit of help from her on the border. Then she told me where all the furniture went as I moved it back into place.

When we were all done, I sat down on the floor EXHAUSTED. She sat down in my lap, put her arms around my neck, and gave me my first unprompted "I love you".

Moments like that are why I am glad I have kids.

[DanGarion]

Some people want to have kids, and some people don't. They have their varying reasons. Some of the people who choose not to have kids, would be great parents...an even better parent than you are. On the other hand some of the people who choose not to have kids wouldn't be great parents. The same goes for people who choose to have kids. Life in general is no more satisfying with or without kids, and life in general is no more enjoyable either.

If you have kids and you find your life became more satisfying than it was without kids, then I'm happy for you. If you don't have kids and you find your life both enjoyable and satisfying, I'm happy for you. Just don't touch my beer and don't look at my cards.

Well said.

[path12]

Awesome story. One of my favorite memories was the look on my stepson's face and the fierce hug when he got his first brand new bike on his 11th birthday.

He broke his collarbone a couple days later trying to ride it down a cliff, but that's another story.

[Castlerock]

Everyone's choices are selfish. You are being selfish if you choose not to have children so you can spend your free time traveling. You are also being selfish if you choose to have children so you can get a great big hug when you walk in the door.

And there is nothing wrong with that. That's how humans work.

[PackerFanatic]

Because of her family history, she was very excited about starting her own family. Originally, she wanted 4, I wanted two, and we compromised for 3. We had a son in 2004, a daughter in 2006, and I'll be damned if my wife didn't get her way because we are having twins in June (she's a twin...it's a conspiracy).


I keep joking with my wife that this is what will happen with us - she wants 4, I want 2, we will settle on 3 and end up with twins. Funny how the world works :)

[Cringer]

Everyone's choices are selfish. You are being selfish if you choose not to have children so you can spend your free time traveling. You are also being selfish if you choose to have children because all you wanted to do was bust a nut without a rubber on or so you can get a great big hug when you walk in the door.

And there is nothing wrong with that. That's how humans work.

Fixed it.

[Karlifornia]

Fixed it.

I do that all the time...it's called masturbation.

[Cringer]

I only masturbate in public so a condom is required to avoid the indecent exposure charge.

[Karlifornia]

I only masturbate in public so a condom is required to avoid the indecent exposure charge.

See, I'm not an exhibitionist. More of a sadist. I like to beat people up as I'm masturbating.

[Marc Vaughan]

My wife and I had children when we realised that they're cheaper than hiring servants, yes it take a little while to train them up - but once they're walking and talking they're great ;)

More seriously I'd never really been around young kids / babies since I as an kid myself and wasn't particularly expecting to have children / family etc. - however sometimes life has things planned out and doesn't ask your opinion :D

For me having kids has been a wonderful experience, yes they can be very stressful at times - but watching them learn and grow is amazing and I'm very proud of all of my brood :D