Brett Favre Retirement Tour: Part Deux

[RedKingGold]

Jets Officially Release Favre (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/28/jets-officially-release-favre/)
Posted by Mike Florio on April 28, 2009, 10:07 p.m. EDT

Wow.

On the same day we speculated that the stage could be set for the Second Annual Brett <NOBR id=itxt_nobr_1_0 style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 100%">Favrehttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif</NOBR> (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/28/jets-officially-release-favre/#) Retirement to be followed by the Second Annual Brett Favre Unretirement, the Jets threw the NFL world a curve ball by releasing Favre from the reserve-retired list (http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2009/04/new_york_jets_officially_relea.html).

Per Dave Hutchinson of the Newark Star-Ledger, the Jets announced the move Tuesday night. The move means that Favre is an unrestricted free agent, free to sign with any team.

Including the Minnesota <NOBR id=itxt_nobr_6_0 style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 100%">Vikingshttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif</NOBR> (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/28/jets-officially-release-favre/#).

Favre wanted to play for the Vikings last year, but the Packers refused to grant him an unconditional release. At one point, the Packers accused the Vikings of tampering with Favre, based on communications between Favre and Vikings offensive coordinator Darell Bevell and head coach Brett Favre. (The charges were found to be unsubstantiated.)

Green Bay held firm in its position, and Favre ultimately accepted a trade to the Jets. Under the terms of the deal, the Jets would have owed the Packers three first-round draft picks if they had traded Favre to the Vikings, Bears, or Lions.

The Jets reportedly declined to release Favre in February, when he retired for the second time in less than a full year.

“[Agent] Bus [Cook] and Mike [Tannenbaum] have been talking about this for a while,” Favre said in a statement. “Nothing has changed. At this time, I am retired and have no intention of returning to football.”

But unless Favre is planning to sign a one-day contract to officially retire (again) with the Packers, there’s no reason for the Jets to make the move if Favre has no intention of returning to football.

Our guess? Once Cook sufficiently and successfully pestered the Broncos to trade quarterback Jay Cutler to the Bears, Cook embarked on an effort to pester Tannenbaum to release Favre, if for no reason other than to clear out any potential impediments to the wild gray hair that might crawl up Brett’s butt in the next month or two.

The next step for Cook? He’ll start pestering Bevell and Childress to start pestering Brett to provide the final piece for one of the most talented teams in <NOBR id=itxt_nobr_13_0 style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 100%">NFLhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif</NOBR> (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/28/jets-officially-release-favre/#) history at every position except the one that counts the most.

Hey, maybe Madden will come back too?

[muns]

Well he does slobber all over Favre.........

[RainMaker]

I know some people got sick of him, but I'd love to see him in Minnesota this year. Living on the border of Minnesota and Green Bay I know how intense the rivalry is. Would be great theatre.

[Matthean]

It won't matter if Favre's arm keeps falling off. We also have no idea what he has been doing during the offseason in terms of conditioning. If he's been sitting back and downing cold ones, it won't be nearly as easy to get back into football shape at his age and he knows that.

[Philliesfan980]

I really don't see him coming back this time.

[Jas_lov]

Favre was beyond bad at the end of last year and was the main reason the Jets tanked. At this point, he's a downgrade from Tavaris Jackson and maybe even Sage Rosenfelds. The Jets didn't want him, the Packers didn't want him, nobody wants him anymore. A sad end to an overrated career.

[RainMaker]

Tavaris Jackson and Sage Rosenfels are brutal. Give Favre the best RB in the league and a real good deep threat and he is dangerous. Maybe not a Pro Bowler but much better than what they have.

[Swaggs]

I thought it would have been pretty awesome if, right after the trade up and Sanchez pick, Favre announced that he wanted to return.

[RainMaker]

As someone who hates the Packers, envisioning Favre in a Viking uniform throwing 4 TDs while Rogers throws 3 interceptions has me giddy. Throw in a one-day comeback for John Madden to gush over every pass and I think it would rank as the greatest day in my life.

[Jas_lov]

Favre had a good running game last year and he still kept chucking the ball up for grabs. He was an embarrassment towards the end of the year and he probably doesn't want to go through that anymore. If I were Ted Thompson I wouldn't even sign him to the 1 day contract. He had his chance to retire as a Packer and now he's just a disgrace.

[RainMaker]

Big difference in a good running game with Thomas Jones and the best back in football and maybe the best we've seen since Barry Sanders.

[DeToxRox]

Favre had a good running game last year and he still kept chucking the ball up for grabs. He was an embarrassment towards the end of the year and he probably doesn't want to go through that anymore. If I were Ted Thompson I wouldn't even sign him to the 1 day contract. He had his chance to retire as a Packer and now he's just a disgrace.

If you were Ted Thomas you'd be in Yoga class right now so you could figure out how to felate yourself.

[Jas_lov]

Actually, Favre signing a 1 day contract to retire as a Packer would save us all the drama for the 6th year in a row. Hopefully they do this soon just to get rid of him for good. This could go on all summer otherwise.

[Cringer]

Don't forget this story from a month ago, which now would be no problem with the Jets cutting him....

hxxp://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=531327

Brett Favre just might make an appearance at an NFL training camp this summer — as a guest of new Cleveland Browns coach Eric Mangini.

Mangini told the New York Daily News that he and Favre have been text messaging since they last saw each other December 29, the day the Jets fired Mangini and the day after Favre played his final NFL game.

The two are discussing Favre joining Mangini at Browns camp this summer. Favre couldn't run the practice team because he is still under contract with the Jets, but Mangini didn't rule out Favre being a guest instructor for quarterbacks Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson.

"I don't think it would be anything formal," Mangini told the newspaper. "It's not like we are hiring him to run the scout team. I don't think he would be interested in that. He would be more like a visitor. An open invite."

The relationship between Mangini and Favre was analyzed extensively when the Jets faded down the stretch of the 2008 season and were eliminated from the playoffs. Mangini says he had no problem with Favre, who has never publicly criticized his former coach.

"We had a legitimately good relationship," Mangini said. "He's a good guy. I like Brett a lot. That was a tough situation for him to come into and I thought he handled it incredibly well."

[Arles]

I am a huge Favre fan (as well as a Packer fan) and rooted for him on the Jets last season, but this is too much. He was a shell of himself in the final 3-4 games and had obvious issues with his elbow. Last I checked, he didn't have surgery (recommended by the Jets if he came back) and the odds his arm holds up all season are slim to none.

I hope he signs a 1-day and retires a Packer. But, if he does try a comeback, I will still pull for him (even as a Viking - except when plays GB ;) ) - but I don't think it ends well. His problem is he always has the "brain fart" game and in GB everyone would cover for that (the OL, RB, WR drops, ...). But, in NY and whatever team he goes to now, he will be expected to win every game and once he blows one - there won't be that "protect Favre" population of the fan base. For his sake, I hope this retirement is for good.

[EagleFan]

I think Madden only retired because of Fare retiring. They'll come back as a package deal as Madden signs on to broadcast every game in which Favre plays next season (even if he has to do radio for that team).

[bbor]

A sad end to an overrated career.


you're kidding,right?

[Cringer]

you're kidding,right?

Jas lives on one giant pendulum, and right now it is in the anti-Favre swing it seems.

[Arles]

Yeah, I don't know how any Packer fan could hold long-term ill will towards Favre. He was an amazing player to watch and I hope he ends up working for the Packers after he retires (hopefully before this season).

[SteveMax58]

Yeah, I don't know how any Packer fan could hold long-term ill will towards Favre. He was an amazing player to watch and I hope he ends up working for the Packers after he retires (hopefully before this season).


Perhaps this will give him a little more time for this?

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:xEV7Ak4rkgViaM:http://i211.photobucket.com

[Butter]

He’ll start pestering Bevell and Childress to start pestering Brett to provide the final piece for one of the most talented teams in <NOBR id=itxt_nobr_13_0 style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 100%">NFLhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif</NOBR> (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/28/jets-officially-release-favre/#) history at every position except the one that counts the most.

So, we're just letting this part slide then?

[Cringer]

So, we're just letting this part slide then?

As a Packer fan it's pretty hard to take a comment like that about the Vikings or Bears serious, so yes I let it slide. Now, if it came from a Lions fan then that is a different story.

[Crim]

Jas lives on one giant pendulum, and right now it is in the anti-Favre swing it seems.

awesome

[Crim]

So, we're just letting this part slide then?

There are times when it is appropriate to take RKG seriously, and there are times when one just chuckles quietly to oneself and turns the page.

[ColtCrazy]

Favre fell apart at the end because of an injury that he shouldn't have played through. As long as he is healthy, and stayed in shape, he'd be an upgrade for the Vikings...but he won't bring them a Super Bowl.

[Arles]

Everyone needs to remember that an MRI as the end of the season showed a tear in his biceps tendon. He elected not to have the arthroscopic surgery and retired.

If he comes back, he'd going to need that surgery, the recovery time and some time to assimilate into the new offense and personnel. Given he's 39, going on 40, I'm not sure any team would want to take that risk even if Brett was willing.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

ProFootballTalk.com - Plane Flies From Minneapolis To Hattiesburg, And Back Again (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/29/plane-flies-from-minneapolis-to-hattiesburg-and-back-again/)

[Draft Dodger]

Everyone needs to remember that an MRI as the end of the season showed a tear in his biceps tendon. He elected not to have the arthroscopic surgery and retired.

If he comes back, he'd going to need that surgery, the recovery time and some time to assimilate into the new offense and personnel. Given he's 39, going on 40, I'm not sure any team would want to take that risk even if Brett was willing.

maybe he'll come back as a lefty

[Fighter of Foo]

you're kidding,right?

He is quite possibly the most overrated athlete of the last 10 years. He's been a whiny little bitch every time he doesn't get his way and has nearly as many turnovers as touchdowns in his career (1st all time in INTs, 2nd in Fumbles).

If you want to talk about playoffs/super bowls, he has just as many rings as Trent Dilfer.

He had three very good years (95-97), and ever since has been a glorified, more durable Sage Rosenfels.

I'll miss him for gambling purposes and that's about it.

[DaddyTorgo]

He is quite possibly the most overrated athlete of the last 10 years. He's been a whiny little bitch every time he doesn't get his way and has nearly as many turnovers as touchdowns in his career (1st all time in INTs, 2nd in Fumbles).

If you want to talk about playoffs/super bowls, he has just as many rings as Trent Dilfer.

He had three very good years (95-97), and ever since has been a glorified, more durable Sage Rosenfels.

I'll miss him for gambling purposes and that's about it.

+1

[larrymcg421]

Honestly, what would people say about Favre if he didn't beat a 10-6 Patriots team to win his one Superbowl ring?

[flere-imsaho]

As someone who lives in Chicago, I'd love to see Favre in Minnesota. Front row seats to the drama in the NFC North and the additional benefit of watching Urlacher & Briggs drive him into the turf several times a season.

[Kodos]

Hmmm. What was Favre's career record against the Bears again? 22-10, 12-3 at Soldier Field. He owns you guys.

[Fighter of Foo]

Hmmm. What was The Packers career record against the Bears again while Favre was playing? 22-10, 12-3 at Soldier Field. They owned you guys.

Fixed that for you. It's a team game.

[Arles]

He is quite possibly the most overrated athlete of the last 10 years. He's been a whiny little bitch every time he doesn't get his way and has nearly as many turnovers as touchdowns in his career (1st all time in INTs, 2nd in Fumbles).
It's once again time to break out the numbers for context. I've posted this a few times, but here goes again:

Because of the large difference in pass attempts for many QBs, the INT record is a bit misleading (and you can also argue the TD one to a lesser degree). For instance, Blanda now has fewer INTs than Brett, but he threw a pick on 6.9% of his total pass attempts. On the flip side, Brett has thrown one on just every 3.3% of his passes.

So, a better measure is TD vs INT %. I checked the TD and INT % per attempt for some of the best passers of all time (with atleast 8 full seasons as a starter). I ranked them by difference between the two:

Young: 5.5%, 2.6%: +2.9
Manning: 5.6%, 2.8%: +2.8
Montana 5.1%, 2.6%: +2.5
Marino 5.0%, 3.1%: +1.9
Favre 5.0%, 3.3%: +1.7
Dawson 6.3%, 4.9%: +1.4
Jergensen: 5.9%, 4.5%: +1.4
Tarkington 5.3%, 4.1%: +1.2
Kelly 4.9%, 3.7%: +1.2
Elway 4.1%, 3.1%: +1.0
Moon 4.3%, 3.4%: +0.9
Unitas 5.6%, 4.9%: +0.7
Bledsoe 3.7%, 3.1%: +0.6
Aikman 3.5%, 3.0%: +0.5
Fouts: 4.5%, 4.3%: +0.2
Bradshaw 5.4%, 5.4%: 0

So, when it comes to "risk/reward" of some of the top passers of all time, Favre ranks comfortably fifth. Throw in his MVPs and Super Bowl win (plus yards/TD numbers) and you'd have to put him fairly high on the overall list. For Young, too, you need to understand he had about half the full seasons as a starter that Brett had (and barely made the 8 season cutoff). This doesn't count Brady, who will certainly pass him once he finishes his 8th season.

[Fighter of Foo]

So, when it comes to "risk/reward" of some of the top passers of all time, Favre ranks comfortably fifth.

YOU PICKED THE LIST!!!!! In other words, given the list of QBs that you picked, and using these two stats, Favre ranks fifth. Well golly gee thanks. Run it for ALL QBs and let me know how it turns out.

You're also using only INTs and not including Fumbles.

Lastly, I'm not saying Favre wasn't good, just overrated.

EDIT: Favre career: 464 TDs, 310 INTs, 117 Fumbles Lost. I don't have playoff stats handy.

[Big Fo]

I'd love to see Favre playing against the Packers. If he can be average like he was last year that'd be an improvement on what Minnesota has.

[DaddyTorgo]

It's once again time to break out the numbers for context. I've posted this a few times, but here goes again:

Because of the large difference in pass attempts for many QBs, the INT record is a bit misleading (and you can also argue the TD one to a lesser degree). For instance, Blanda now has fewer INTs than Brett, but he threw a pick on 6.9% of his total pass attempts. On the flip side, Brett has thrown one on just every 3.3% of his passes.

So, a better measure is TD vs INT %. I checked the TD and INT % per attempt for some of the best passers of all time (with atleast 8 full seasons as a starter). I ranked them by difference between the two:

Young: 5.5%, 2.6%: +2.9
Manning: 5.6%, 2.8%: +2.8
Montana 5.1%, 2.6%: +2.5
Marino 5.0%, 3.1%: +1.9
Favre 5.0%, 3.3%: +1.7
Dawson 6.3%, 4.9%: +1.4
Jergensen: 5.9%, 4.5%: +1.4
Tarkington 5.3%, 4.1%: +1.2
Kelly 4.9%, 3.7%: +1.2
Elway 4.1%, 3.1%: +1.0
Moon 4.3%, 3.4%: +0.9
Unitas 5.6%, 4.9%: +0.7
Bledsoe 3.7%, 3.1%: +0.6
Aikman 3.5%, 3.0%: +0.5
Fouts: 4.5%, 4.3%: +0.2
Bradshaw 5.4%, 5.4%: 0

So, when it comes to "risk/reward" of some of the top passers of all time, Favre ranks comfortably fifth. Throw in his MVPs and Super Bowl win (plus yards/TD numbers) and you'd have to put him fairly high on the overall list. For Young, too, you need to understand he had about half the full seasons as a starter that Brett had (and barely made the 8 season cutoff). This doesn't count Brady, who will certainly pass him once he finishes his 8th season.

I was about to kick your ass for not picking Brady, until I read down to the bottom. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

I'll bite - dating back to 1995. Given this is just one statistic, and there are notable examples of people you wouldn't expect looking very good with this metric, but it is what it is.

Football Outsiders QB Rankings (DYAR - Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement)

1995: 3rd
1996: 2nd
1997: 4th
1998: 10th
1999: 9th
2000: 9th
2001: 5th
2002: 14th
2003: 10th
2004: 5th
2005:10th
2006: 14th
2007: 3rd
2008: 20th

[Surtt]

ProFootballTalk.com - Plane Flies From Minneapolis To Hattiesburg, And Back Again (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/29/plane-flies-from-minneapolis-to-hattiesburg-and-back-again/)


Update...


hxxp://www.todaystmj4.com/bloggers/lanceallan/44034022.html

Well, after tracking the flight and doing some intel (I feel like Jack Bauer on 24 sometimes when I'm doing "investigative" work like this), it turns out that only Target executives were on the flight. No Brett. No Bus. No story.



Maybe he is planning on playing for the Target flag football team.

[BrianD]

YOU PICKED THE LIST!!!!! In other words, given the list of QBs that you picked, and using these two stats, Favre ranks fifth. Well golly gee thanks. Run it for ALL QBs and let me know how it turns out.

You're also using only INTs and not including Fumbles.

Lastly, I'm not saying Favre wasn't good, just overrated.

EDIT: Favre career: 464 TDs, 310 INTs, 117 Fumbles Lost. I don't have playoff stats handy.

As long as you don't mind leaving out guys with less than 1 full season starting, I have so far found Tom Brady at +3.0 (top of the list so far), Drew Brees at +1.9 (above Favre) and Mark Brunell at +1.7 (tied with Favre). I'll go farther down the list to see who else is in range.

Edit:
Philip Rivers +3.0
Tony Romo +2.7
Aaron Rodgers (just for fun) +2.5
Donovan McNabb +2.4
Jeff Garcia +1.9
Matt Cassel +1.8
Rich Gannon +1.8
Carson Palmer +1.8
Randall Cunningham +1.7
Ben Roethlisberger +1.7

And that is the whole list. Looking at the above list, how many fit into Arles original 8-season requirement? Rich Gannon might be the only one. In all QBs all-time, Favre ranks tied for 15th. I'll let others argue whether people like Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, Philip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel and others have played enough to be considered for the list.

[DaddyTorgo]

mmmm tom brady - top of the list *swoons*

[larrymcg421]

Of course, you have to figure in yearly comparisons when talking about passing stats. For example, over Marino's career, the average was 3.7% INT's, so he was 0.6% below that mark, whereas during Favre's career it was 3.2%, so he was actually over the league average by 0.1%

I didn't do all of Blanda's years, but for an example, his last full year, he threw 6.4% INT's, but the league average was 7.2%.

[Crim]

This is beginning to smell like a baseball stats argument...

[bulletsponge]

i got a few things to say..

Brett Favre is vastly overrated, but not by the fans, by the media. theyve sucked on his dong ever since he won the superbowl which brings me to another thing...

if it wasnt for Howard having the best special teams day in superbowl history, Favre would have 0 rings

and TD passes are the most overrated stat in football

[Kodos]

Yeah, it's not like you need to score points to win games.

[BrianD]

i got a few things to say..

Brett Favre is vastly overrated, but not by the fans, by the media. theyve sucked on his dong ever since he won the superbowl which brings me to another thing...

if it wasnt for Howard having the best special teams day in superbowl history, Favre would have 0 rings

and TD passes are the most overrated stat in football

The TD passes were brought up to give context to the INT numbers.

[DaddyTorgo]

i got a few things to say..

Brett Favre is vastly overrated, but not by the fans, by the media. theyve sucked on his dong ever since he won the superbowl which brings me to another thing...

if it wasnt for Howard having the best special teams day in superbowl history, Favre would have 0 rings



true and true

[larrymcg421]

i got a few things to say..

Brett Favre is vastly overrated, but not by the fans, by the media. theyve sucked on his dong ever since he won the superbowl which brings me to another thing...

if it wasnt for Howard having the best special teams day in superbowl history, Favre would have 0 rings

and TD passes are the most overrated stat in football

Actually the most overrated stat is the other one you brought up (Superbowl rings).

I would agree that TD passes by themselves don't make for a great measure, but it's good when comparing to INT's. For example, a QB might lose alot of TD's because of a strong running game, but then he should also have fewer INT's because he's facing easier defenses.

But you absolutely must consider TD/INT in context of the time the person played. When Marino was a rookie in 1983, the league average INT% was 4.4. In 2008, the league average was only 2.8%.

[molson]

Yeah, it's not like you need to score points to win games.

Putting so much weight on TD passes infers that if you score another way, like running the ball into the end zone, the QB did something wrong.

Team A may like to run in the red zone, Team B might like to pass. Team B's QB is going to have more passing TDs. That dosn't make him better.

Passing TDs are evidence of value, like any other stat, but as far as stats go, it's pretty flawed.

[Arles]

Yeah, the game changes a lot. The best comparisons from that list to me are Marino, Elway, Montana, Young, Aikman and Kelly. Favre ranks behind Young and Montana, within 0.2% of Marino and ahead of the others. That puts him as one of the top 4-5 QBs in the 1985 to 2005 window. He's certainly not the best guy in the past 20 years, but arguably being in the top 5 for your ERA seems like a HOF career and one that should be celebrated.

What has hurt Favre is the amount of apologists he's had in the past 4 seasons when his performance has slipped noticeably. I think that has created a lot of backlash that the first 10-12 years of his career didn't really deserve.

[Matthean]

SI: Did Favre hire personal trainer? (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/101250-did-favre-hire-personal-trainer?cnn=yes)

:popcorn:

[DaddyTorgo]

What has hurt Favre is the amount of apologists he's had in the past 4 seasons when his performance has slipped noticeably. I think that has created a lot of backlash that the first 10-12 years of his career didn't really deserve.

definately true

[Arles]

Just for reference, here's a list of starting HBs for Green Bay in Favre's first 10 seasons:

1992: Vince Workman (631 yards, 3.9 ypc), 3.7 team ypc
1993: Darrell Thompson (654 yards, 3.9 ypc), 3.6 team ypc
1994: Edgar Bennett (623 yards, 3.5 ypc), 3.6 team ypc
1995: Edgar Bennett (1067 yards, 3.4 ypc), 3.5 team ypc
* interesting sidebar - Favre was the second best runner this season with 39 attempts for 181 yards (4.6 ypc). Without him, they would have averaged 3.2 ypc.
1996: Edgar Bennett (899 yards, 4.0 ypc), 3.9 team ypc
1997: Dorsey Levens (1435 yards, 4.3 ypc), 4.2 team ypc
1998: essentially a tie between an injured Dorsey Levens (378, 3.3 ypc) and Travis Jervey (325 yards, 3.8 ypc), 3.4 team ypc
1999: Levens (1034 yards, 3.7 ypc), 3.8 team ypc
2000: Ahman Green (1175, 4.5 ypc), 4.0 team ypc
2001: Ahman Green (1387, 4.5 ypc), 4.0 team ypc

Outside of a few seasons in the 2000-2004 range with Green, Favre has had perhaps the worst running game of any major QB. Even Marino only had 1 or 2 seasons in his first 10 where the top back averaged less than 4 ypc. Plus, Favre has certainly never had a back near the level of Terrell Davis, Emmitt Smith or Rodger Craig (or even Ricky Watters for that matter).

[DaddyTorgo]

i wonder what the league-wide numbers for those years were?

and i'd say 92/93 were fine, and 96/97 were fine

[Cringer]

That's because Vince Workman, Edgar Bennett, and Dorsey Levens were the greatest RBs of all time. :D Although Travis Jervey and his love of exotic animals makes him a close second.

[larrymcg421]

Well, part of it might be that Favre generally played with good defenses, so the YPC's are lower since they'r eplaying ahead and running out the clock alot, whereas Marino was playing from behind so people like Lorenzo Hampton and Troy Stradford had no problem gaining 5 yards against the Dime.

I haven't done other QB's yet, but the difference in average defensive rank between Marino and Favre is pretty wide.

Favre: 9.0
Marino: 19.7

And Favre's Superbowl came in 1996, when he had the #1 defense.

[JAG]

I would agree that TD passes by themselves don't make for a great measure, but it's good when comparing to INT's. For example, a QB might lose alot of TD's because of a strong running game, but then he should also have fewer INT's because he's facing easier defenses.

Not necessarily true (re: fewer INT's). When would a QB on a team where the RB's get the bulk of the TD's pass the most? When they're losing / late in the game when most INT's happen. Their ratios could look awful as a result, but it might have nothing to do with how good the QB is.

Another thing is I would expect QB's in West Coast offenses to have a much better TD / INT ranking than other QB's because the passes are generally less risky and I would guess those teams throw more frequently in the red zone than downfield passing teams like the Chargers in the 80's, Cowboys in the 90's, or Rams in the late 90's / early 00's. Looking at where Fouts and Aikman rank on the list, it seems like that could well be what's happening with this set of stats.

[Arles]

Yeah, my point isn't that Favre is greater than Marino, Elway or Montana (he obviously isn't), but to remind people how putrid his running game was early on. As a team, they were below the league average on ypc in all but one season from 1992 to 1999. And Favre has a high yards per completion average for his career than Aikman.

[RainMaker]

Well, part of it might be that Favre generally played with good defenses, so the YPC's are lower since they'r eplaying ahead and running out the clock alot, whereas Marino was playing from behind so people like Lorenzo Hampton and Troy Stradford had no problem gaining 5 yards against the Dime.

I haven't done other QB's yet, but the difference in average defensive rank between Marino and Favre is pretty wide.

Favre: 9.0
Marino: 19.7

And Favre's Superbowl came in 1996, when he had the #1 defense.

Defensive stats can be a little misleading. Green Bay has more lower scoring games due to the weather than Miami does. Any game there from November on is a crapshoot with cold, wind, and a rock hard field. Marino also played in a tougher division that had his team going up against the high powered Bills offense twice a year.

Not saying that Marino had better defenses, but the numbers are probably a little closer than they look.

[RainMaker]

I think Favre is overated by the media and is given a free pass far too often. But I also think he's done some incredible things.

Playing in that many consecutive games is amazing. Especially when you consider his style of play, his mediocre offensive lines, and his lack of a running game. I don't care what anyone says, that alone is a remarkable achievement.

I would also add that his mystique comes from the fact he resurrected one of the most storied franchises in sports. The Packers were pretty shitty back in the 80's and early 90's. He came in and turned that team around quickly. He was the reason they were able to go out and bring in some big name free agents.

And finally, he made mediocre players look like stars. Look at the list of receivers like Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman, Donald Driver and so on that he has turned into Pro Bowlers. There are few QBs who can do that. I personally think Manning is a better QB than Favre, but I don't think Manning wins as many games as Favre with the talent Favre had. Manning is a guy who needs some talent with him while Favre was someone who made the talent. Different styles and different types of QBs.

[Arles]

Defensive stats can be a little misleading. Green Bay has more lower scoring games due to the weather than Miami does. Any game there from November on is a crapshoot with cold, wind, and a rock hard field. Marino also played in a tougher division that had his team going up against the high powered Bills offense twice a year.

Not saying that Marino had better defenses, but the numbers are probably a little closer than they look.
This is a good point. Even when GB was terrible in the 80s, they always ranked in the top half for team defense - primarily because of the weather. For instance, GB went 4-12 in 1988 under Lindy Infante (absolutely dreadful team), but ranked 7th in total defense because of some low cold weather scores.

[Fighter of Foo]

This is a good point. Even when GB was terrible in the 80s, they always ranked in the top half for team defense - primarily because of the weather. For instance, GB went 4-12 in 1988 under Lindy Infante (absolutely dreadful team), but ranked 7th in total defense because of some low cold weather scores.

Primarily because of the weather??? I call BS

[RainMaker]

Primarily because of the weather??? I call BS

It was also a rather poor offensive division for much of the 80's and 90's.

[Arles]

Yeah, what I meant above was that a lot of the poor scoring games happened late in the year. But, Chicago and Minnesota has some bad offenses in the late 80s. Still, there was usually a drop in late home games in GB or Chicago in the 80s and early 90s that seemed to coincide with bad weather.

In other news, the Vikes may very well get back into the Favre game:

Minnesota Vikings coach Brad Childress: We will discuss Brett Favre - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4123764)

The Minnesota Vikings haven't discussed the possibility of pursuing veteran quarterback Brett Favre. Yet.

Speaking on the first day of his team's rookie minicamp, coach Brad Childress said there hasn't been time to discuss the New York Jets' decision to release Favre. The move made Favre a free agent, raising speculation he was considering a return to the game despite releasing a statement in which he said his plans were to remain retired "at this time."

"We talk about everything," Childress said. "So yeah, I'm sure we'll talk about that."
Looks like we get another 6 months of "Favre watch" on ESPN. Oh, joy :rolleyes:

[RainMaker]

Yeah, what I meant above was that a lot of the poor scoring games happened late in the year. But, Chicago and Minnesota has some bad offenses in the late 80s. Still, there was usually a drop in late home games in GB or Chicago in the 80s and early 90s that seemed to coincide with bad weather.


Don't forget Tampa Bay which was woeful every year.

[Arles]

ah, yes, the Bay of Pigs matchup

[Jas_lov]

Favre is meeting with Childress! You should read some of the posts over at JS Online. Many more Packer fans are jumping on the anti-Favre bandwagon now. Favre is making a terrible mistake tarnishing his legacy like this and so are the Vikings trying to sign a washed up interception throwing machine who only wants to sign with the Vikings to stick it to Thompson and McCarthy.

[USFLTecmo]

Favre is meeting with Childress! You should read some of the posts over at JS Online. Many more Packer fans are jumping on the anti-Favre bandwagon now. Favre is making a terrible mistake tarnishing his legacy like this and so are the Vikings trying to sign a washed up interception throwing machine who only wants to sign with the Vikings to stick it to Thompson and McCarthy.

He has to actually sign and put on the Vikings helmet before I jump, but put it this way, I'm getting ready to.

[Arles]

Yep, just his ESPN:

Source: Brett Favre to talk to Brad Childress about playing - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4142857)

Looks like his hatred of the current GB GM is his reason for returning. Good luck with that ;)

[Mustang]

Favre is meeting with Childress! You should read some of the posts over at JS Online. Many more Packer fans are jumping on the anti-Favre bandwagon now. Favre is making a terrible mistake tarnishing his legacy like this and so are the Vikings trying to sign a washed up interception throwing machine who only wants to sign with the Vikings to stick it to Thompson and McCarthy.

Obviously he doesn't care. Anyone thought that he'd hang around Green Bay ala Fuzzy Thurston was kidding themselves. Dude was going to be a ghost in Wisconsin after he was really finally done.

From a Minnesota perspective, getting a soon to be 40 year old QB, that his new teammates didn't warm up to, with a torn biceps, that doesn't take part in preseason camps, who tailed off late in the last 2 seasons and who's primary motivation is revenge doesn't seem like a good play.

[USFLTecmo]

But when has Minnesota ever been accused of doing that? :D

[panerd]

This story is the swine flu story for sports.

[bhlloy]

IF true, this well and truly tarnishes his legacy. Way to shit all over the team that made your career, the fans that idolized you and defended you all those years you were declining. What a complete and utter douche.

[BYU 14]

There is nothing right about this. As a Vikings fan I want to see him in the Purple about as much as I would have liked seeing Fran Tarkenton in that god awful Green and Yellow!

[Big Fo]

It will be great seeing him lead the Vikings to a win in Lambeau.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It will be great seeing him lead the Vikings to a win in Lambeau.

Would be kinda fun.

[ColtCrazy]

Wow....I'm kind of split on this. On one hand, Favre has always been entertaining to watch. As many bonehead throws he has made, I also remember the great ones. It was hard not to like him when he completed that 3rd and 15 against the Pats this year when the Jets still looked good.

But....the Vikings? If I were the Packers, I'd have a hard time not telling the kicker to wear #4 this year just to stick it to him. It's one thing to move on, but another to play for a rival. Would Brady play for the Bills? Manning for the Jags? I don't see it happening.

I realize it's a business...and I realize Favre is trying to avoid retirement as much as possible....but I don't see this ending well for him. And it's really a shame.

[ISiddiqui]

LOL. What a mess!

[Crim]

Heh John Elway taking snaps in the silver and black...



haw haw haw never ever ever. Brett is shitting on himself with all this madness.

[Arles]

It will be great seeing him lead the Vikings to a win in Lambeau.
It will great to see Favre make the Vikings throw 40 times in Lambeau, providing the best defense GB could hope for in keeping touches from Adrian Peterson. There's no way his ego lets him go back to Green Bay and through 10-15 passes while AP rushes 35 times. So, as a Packer fan, I think a Favre-led Vikings team is much less of a threat than one relying on Peterson and their defense.

[Matthean]

The really awkward moment comes when Brett finally gets into the Hall of Fame. Since he basically only has it out for a few people, it's still widely assumed he'll go in as a Packer, but after this it will be interesting to see just how Packer nation deals with it.

[Crim]

I'd say that after five years of actually retirement, most will be able to forgive and forget.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Please let this happen. I'd love to see Favre on the Vikings. It'd make the NFC Central pretty interesting.

[Crim]

I'd say that after five years of actually retirement, most will be able to forgive and forget.

Frogot to add: except for Jas Lov

[Jas_lov]

Favre as a Viking has the potential to be hilarious because I can just see him trying to hard and throwing 4 picks a game. If it backfires on Favre, and the Packers are the ones who stick it to Favre, then it will all be worth it. I could forgive and forget if Favre had just retired after being released by the Jets, but him playing for the Vikings will tarnish his legacy for all Packer fans.

[molson]

I'd say that after five years of actually retirement, most will be able to forgive and forget.

But can Favre forgive the Packers?

That's the real douchebag aspect of this, if it's true. It's all about vengeance for him. Because a team made a football decision (that was proven right).

[Matthean]

Just looked up their schedules and they play in week 4 and 8. I was kind of hoping the game at GB was late in the season when Favre seems to play worse due to an old body in cold weather. Nov. 1 is the latest they will play. Both teams have a decent chance of being 3-0 going into the first game and it's a Monday nighter so you know ESPN will beat this thing to death.

[flere-imsaho]

Please let this happen. I'd love to see Favre on the Vikings. It'd make the NFC Central pretty interesting.

This, plus Stafford, plus Cutler is going to make the NFC Central the DRAMA Central Division. :D Love it! :D

[Passacaglia]

And the drama will increase when the NFC North teams find out you've been calling it the NFC Central! :p

[PackerFanatic]

Just looked up their schedules and they play in week 4 and 8. I was kind of hoping the game at GB was late in the season when Favre seems to play worse due to an old body in cold weather. Nov. 1 is the latest they will play. Both teams have a decent chance of being 3-0 going into the first game and it's a Monday nighter so you know ESPN will beat this thing to death.

Doesn't matter where Favre might be - TK will beat this thing to death no matter what. If he happens to be playing for the Vikes, I will have to listen to the game on the radio because I will not be able to listen to TK.

[terpkristin]

Doesn't matter where Favre might be - TK will beat this thing to death no matter what. If he happens to be playing for the Vikes, I will have to listen to the game on the radio because I will not be able to listen to TK.

I read this and couldn't figure out what I did.

Then I realize you're probably talking about Kornheiser.

/tk

[Honolulu_Blue]

And the drama will increase when the NFC North teams find out you've been calling it the NFC Central! :p

Save the DRAMA for your MAMA.

It's in the middle of the NHL playoffs, I can't be blamed for such things.

[flere-imsaho]

I knew something was wrong with calling it the NFC Central.....

/shame

[Qwikshot]

I read this and couldn't figure out what I did.

Then I realize you're probably talking about Kornheiser.

/tk


I think you are tk, Tony must be TK.:D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wait, he's seriously considering coming back? I just assumed this thread was a joke and didn't bother to read it. Then I heard this morning the report about him talking to the Vikings.

Before long, we'll have Steve DeBerg at QB for the Chiefs (broken pinky and all) with Christian Okoye in the backfield.

[Mustang]

But can Favre's Family forgive the Packers?


I think Favre's action are driven in large part by Bus Cook and his family. If Brett's Dad is alive, I don't think half this stuff happens.

[PackerFanatic]

I think Favre's action are driven in large part by Bus Cook and his family. If Brett's Dad is alive, I don't think half this stuff happens.

That is a damn good point.

[larrymcg421]

What will really be funny is when Favre plays like crap in the first 4 games, but the Vikings are 4-0 behind AP's running, we'll see a bunch of crap praising Favre for his leadership and knowing "how to win".

[Honolulu_Blue]

I knew something was wrong with calling it the NFC Central.....

/shame

Seriously. You really have no good excuse. It's right for you to feel shame.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This, plus Stafford, plus Cutler is going to make the NFC Central the DRAMA Central Division. :D Love it! :D

The quarterback landscape will be shockingly different than it was last year. Last year, before the season began, I remember how everyone kept talking about how the Lions had the best quarterback in that division: Jon Kitna.

They were wrong, but still.

[flere-imsaho]

Seriously. You really have no good excuse. It's right for you to feel shame.

Eight-month old? Can I plead for leniency considering the extenuating circumstances? :D

[Honolulu_Blue]

Eight-month old? Can I plead for leniency considering the extenuating circumstances? :D

We have reviewed your application.

Motion GRANTED.

You may now proceed shame free.

In fact, based on all of these extenuating circumstances, I think it's that jerk Passacaglia who should be feeling shame. Picking on an exhausted hockey fan posting at 1:00 am and the father of a new born like that. Now that's just shameful.... Shameful.

APOLOGIES WILL BE ACCEPTED THANK YOU

[gstelmack]

What will really be funny is when Favre plays like crap in the first 4 games, but the Vikings are 4-0 behind AP's running, we'll see a bunch of crap praising Favre for his leadership and knowing "how to win".

They won't give AP the ball enough for that to happen...

[PackerFanatic]

They won't give AP the ball enough for that to happen...

Exactly. Brad Childress is still their coach, after all.

[Logan]

I realize the world might implode if I complete this thought, but yeah I think I'd rather have Sage Rosenfels than Favre at this point (as long as he promises to never try to dive over a pile of defenders while protecting a lead).

[Arles]

I realize the world might implode if I complete this thought, but yeah I think I'd rather have Sage Rosenfels than Favre at this point (as long as he promises to never try to dive over a pile of defenders while protecting a lead).
Come on, what's not to like about a 40-year old with a torn bicep slinging the ball around the field while AP sits idly by?

[PilotMan]

Brett Favre is teh gretest eva. Hes betr thn evry1.

[Kodos]

Favre 4 Lyfe!

[kurtism]

A Vikings fan (and certified Favre-hater) with his take on Brett in the Twin Cities (language nsfw): hxxp://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2009/05/f-k-you-brett-favre.html

[sooner333]

They won't give AP the ball enough for that to happen...

I think the probably give him the ball the right amount of times if they plan on making the playoffs. Taylor is too good to not get the ball and risk wearing out Peterson. It's AD, btw.

[stevew]

Trade Taylor and a 3rd or 4th for braylon. Then let papa Favre work his magic.

[miami_fan]

A Vikings fan (and certified Favre-hater) with his take on Brett in the Twin Cities (language nsfw): hxxp://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2009/05/f-k-you-brett-favre.html

That was well done.:D

[PackerFanatic]

Source: Favre rebuffs Vikings, will stay retired - NFL - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-favre050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

This thing is just so out of whack now - everyone wants to get that first big story, everyone is just canceling each other out and we have no idea who to believe. Damn media...

[Matthean]

Source: Favre rebuffs Vikings, will stay retired - NFL - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-favre050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

This thing is just so out of whack now - everyone wants to get that first big story, everyone is just canceling each other out and we have no idea who to believe. Damn media...

Dear Brad Childress,

You're screwed.

If the Vikings axe Childress and can get a solid game manager type QB in the draft they could be an interesting team to watch.

[stevew]

I think Sage will outperform what Favre did in 2008. I plan on getting him on as many of my fantasy teams as possible.

[Fighter of Foo]

I think Sage will outperform what Favre did in 2008. I plan on getting him on as many of my fantasy teams as possible.

Hope it's not -2 points for turnovers. And that you have a good backup because there is close to zero chance of him playing a full 16 games.

[Julio Riddols]

With the way Tarvaris Jackson played in the last 4 games last season, what IDIOT would want Sage ROSENFAIL as a starting QB?

Have some damn faith in the guy. Nobody knew wtf you were doing drafting him in round 2, now put your speculation to the test. He has played well, IMO. Very well considering the talent he has had to throw to.

Sacked only 14 times, threw only 2 picks in 9 games on 149 attempts. Rating of 95.4 in his second season as the true starter (although it was cut by the injury issue) When he was allowed to sit and watch due to the injury, he came back and performed like a pro bowler in the last 4 games.

[DaddyTorgo]

With the way Tarvaris Jackson played in the last 4 games last season, what IDIOT would want Sage ROSENFAIL as a starting QB?

Have some damn faith in the guy. Nobody knew wtf you were doing drafting him in round 2, now put your speculation to the test. He has played well, IMO. Very well considering the talent he has had to throw to.

Sacked only 14 times, threw only 2 picks in 9 games on 149 attempts. Rating of 95.4 in his second season as the true starter (although it was cut by the injury issue) When he was allowed to sit and watch due to the injury, he came back and performed like a pro bowler in the last 4 games.

I kind of agree.

[Jas_lov]

BRETT FAVRE UPDATE:

Brett Favre's health a factor in whether he might join Minnesota Vikings - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4152783)

Favre has sent X-Rays to the Vikings and he is eager to play for the Vikings this year. Here's is Favre primary motivation for returning:

According to Schaap's source, Favre is motivated to continue his career, in part due to his disdain for Packers' management, and that he is eager to play again in the NFC North, where he would have the chance to exact a measure of revenge against the franchise he spent 16 seasons with.

[terpkristin]

What would X-rays show? I thought he had a torn bicep/bicep tendon?

/tk

[Eaglesfan27]

What would X-rays show? I thought he had a torn bicep/bicep tendon?

/tk

Not my area of expertise, but I was wondering the same thing. Sounds like one more BS rumor floating around out there.

[Jas_lov]

The story says that the Vikings medical staff will determine if Favre needs major surgery or not. If he does, he will stay retired. If he doesn't, he will turn his back on the Green Bay Packers franchise forever. Favre obviously wants to play, but he doesn't want to embarrass him self like he did last year.

[terpkristin]

Not my area of expertise, but I was wondering the same thing. Sounds like one more BS rumor floating around out there.

Thinking on it, I think BS rumor floating around is possible, but it might be that the reporting is just not right, either. I mean, it could be he sent MRI films and X-rays or CT films and they're just lumping it all as X-rays.

Kinda how people are saying Manny tested positive, but there have been conflicting reports on that. Some say he tested positive for something, some say he didn't test positive but that test results yielded further investigation that uncovered his use of HCG.

I think this is all news is just covering up the fact that by and large, the NBA playoffs haven't been that interesting (aside from the crazy Bulls/Celtics series).

/tk

[duckman]

The story says that the Vikings medical staff will determine if Favre needs major surgery or not. If he does, he will stay retired. If he doesn't, he will turn his back on the Green Bay Packers franchise forever. Favre obviously wants to play, but he doesn't want to embarrass him self like he did last year.
http://www.defendingthetruth.com/members/cubbie-albums-fun-stuff-picture270-drama-queen.jpg

[Eaglesfan27]

Thinking on it, I think BS rumor floating around is possible, but it might be that the reporting is just not right, either. I mean, it could be he sent MRI films and X-rays or CT films and they're just lumping it all as X-rays.

Kinda how people are saying Manny tested positive, but there have been conflicting reports on that. Some say he tested positive for something, some say he didn't test positive but that test results yielded further investigation that uncovered his use of HCG.

I think this is all news is just covering up the fact that by and large, the NBA playoffs haven't been that interesting (aside from the crazy Bulls/Celtics series).

/tk

I definitely thought of that as a possibility. Lay people get X-rays and MRI's frequently confused. I guess it would be foolish of me to expect reporters to keep them straight.

[gstelmack]

Favre obviously wants to play, but he doesn't want to embarrass him self like he did last year.

Class, this is what we call a contradiction.

[Passacaglia]

Maybe he's just using the Vikings to figure out if he needs surgery..

[Mustang]

What would X-rays show? I thought he had a torn bicep/bicep tendon?

/tk


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zpQJnvVEB3w/SVPHegoSLtI/AAAAAAAAAJM/zcvjsynLw6o/s400/Grinch+heart.jpg

[terpkristin]

Report: Brett Favre expected to undergo surgery on biceps tendon - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4175616)

Seeing Dr. Andrews is almost never a good sign, though this article says that the surgery recovery would be 6-8 weeks. I guess I have no idea on the extent of his injury (or the exact nature) or what this surgery will accomplish, but hey, if it's what he wants...

/tk

[Cringer]

The recovery time wouldn't be a big deal. It is not like he would ever go to OTA's or minicamps anyways, no matter how much the Vikes begged him to do so.

[Jas_lov]

It's official then, he's coming back as a Viking soley for revenge. He will get heavily booed when he returns to Lambeau and I can't wait to watch Favre embarrass himself.

[ColtCrazy]

If I were Packers management, the second Favre becomes a Viking, I would have the punter change his number to 4...just to see all of Packer Nation use duct tape on their Favre jerseys.

If management would just dive in and play Favre's revenge game, this could get fun. :popcorn:

And then we can all get a laugh when the Bears when the division anyway.

[Senator]

Come on back, we don't mind at all.

[Arles]

I don't see Brett helping the Vikes anymore than he helped the Jets last season. By late season, Thomas Jo... err, Adrian Peterson will be wondering why he doesn't get more touches and Kerry Rhod..., um make that Chad Greenway will be wondering why the team keeps throwing and giving up game-killing turnovers.

Favre is what he is - a QB with the mind/confidence of a 22-year old and the body of a 40-year old. Maybe it ends well for Minnesota, but I don't see it ending any better than it did in New York.

[Matthean]

Brett has to pray that the Vikings win home field throughout the playoffs, or get friendly away playoff games because we all know what he's like in a cold game in January. Dec. 28 @ Chicago should be fun.

[Arles]

Source: Brett Favre surgery not imminent after all - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4176703)

Contrary to reports, Brett Favre does not have an appointment with Dr. James Andrews on Tuesday and doesn't consider surgery on his partially torn biceps tendon to be imminent, according to a source.

Favre discussed surgical and non-surgical options with Andrews last week, as ESPN has reported.

Citing unnamed sources, the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported that Favre was to meet with Andrews on Tuesday in Birmingham, Alabama, to discuss surgery on his throwing shoulder and that the procedure was expected to be performed later this week.

Favre, however, remains focused on non-surgical options, including cortisone injections and natural movements like light throwing and bicep curls that might cause the tendon to release naturally, the source told ESPN. If the tendon releases and the pain subsides, Favre is virtually certain to play again. If he has surgery and his arm strength diminishes or the pain remains, he will remain retired, the source said.

At 39, Favre believes the less he has to do to correct the problem the better as he believes he still possesses the arm strength he had 10 years ago. The difference now is the injury is causing pain. According to the source, Favre will return to the NFL to play for the Minnesota Vikings if the tendon ruptures and it makes him pain-free. If he submits to arthroscopic surgery and it fails to resolve the problem, then Favre intends to remain retired.

Either way, Favre is losing patience, causing the source to say the shoulder problem must be overcome soon or Favre is likely to abandon his effort to play a 19th NFL season.
The more I read of this, the more it sounds like someone who isn't 100% dedicated to coming back but doesn't want to retire. I think I understand it - Favre feels wronged by the Packers and wanted to leave the team completely on his terms and wants to keep playing as long as he can. Still, it's a fairly benign surgery and the recovery/rehab is 6-8 weeks tops. So, if he's unwilling to go through that, how willing will he be to stay in top physical and mental shape for a 16-game season. The bolded part is exactly what I stated two posts above and this "belief" of Favre's could make 2009 a bit of a disaster.

As someone who wants to remember Favre as the QB he was from 1992 until 2007, I hope he takes this out and retires before he does any more damage to his already teetering legacy.

[RainMaker]

I actually think it would be great drama to see him comeback. But I also know it would make ESPN unwatchable for the next 6 months.

[Cringer]

I actually think it would be great drama to see him comeback. But I also know it would make ESPN unwatchable for the next 6 months.

At least Tony Kornheiser is off of MNF, that should help some.

[Matthean]

Sports Radio Interviews » Blog Archive » That’s Incredible! A Former Player That Isn’t A Fan of Brett Favre’s (http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2009/05/27/thats-incredible-a-former-player-that-isnt-a-fan-of-brett-favres/)

[Jas_lov]

FYI- Favre is NOT expected to announce his return to the NFL as a Minnesota Viking tonight on Joe Buck's new show on HBO at 9 PM ET. How did Joe Buck get his own show? I don't know, but it's pretty much guaranteed to suck.

[DaddyTorgo]

If I were Packers management, the second Favre becomes a Viking, I would have the punter change his number to 4...just to see all of Packer Nation use duct tape on their Favre jerseys.

If management would just dive in and play Favre's revenge game, this could get fun. :popcorn:


:D

[wade moore]

FYI- Favre is expected to announce his return to the NFL as a Minnesota Viking tonight on Joe Buck's new show on HBO at 9 PM ET. How did Joe Buck get his own show? I don't know, but it's pretty much guaranteed to suck.

PFT begs to differ:

ProFootballTalk.com - Favre Interview Set In Motion Months Ago (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/06/15/favre-interview-set-in-motion-months-ago/)

[Jas_lov]

Oh God. I just assumed he was going on to say he's coming back. Now this is going to drag on even further if he doesn't just say he's getting ready for the season which apparently he is. He had the surgery, the Vikings are working with him, so he's definitely coming back.

[Mustang]

I think even Obama looks at Favre and says.. "Man, you get a lot of press"

[Logan]

Oh God. I just assumed he was going on to say he's coming back. Now this is going to drag on even further if he doesn't just say he's getting ready for the season which apparently he is. He had the surgery, the Vikings are working with him, so he's definitely coming back.

So when you said "Favre is expected" you just decided to completely make shit up?

[Samdari]

Oh God.... Now this is going to drag on even further....


Did you not read the thread topic?

[Jas_lov]

So when you said "Favre is expected" you just decided to completely make shit up?

I always make shit up! Now I have changed it, but why else would Favre go on the show? He hasn't spoken to anybody in the media about this and all of a sudden he's doing a sit down interview like Greta van Sustren last year.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

And, thankfully, over.

Childress: Favre staying retired (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/51926357.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUvckD_V_jEyhD:UiD3aPc:_Yyc:aU7DYaGEP7vDEh7P:DiUs)

[Atocep]

And, thankfully, over.



Are you really going to believe that?

[MikeVic]

I only thought about buying a Favre jersey and this is what happened. You're welcome Logan (I think it was you that requested I buy a Favre jersey after my Vick and Big Ben ones).

[Honolulu_Blue]

And, thankfully, over.

Childress: Favre staying retired (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/51926357.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUvckD_V_jEyhD:UiD3aPc:_Yyc:aU7DYaGEP7vDEh7P:DiUs)

That's too bad.

[Big Fo]

What an attention whore.

[stevew]

please....im not fucking buying that for a minute.

32nd thoughts will surely happen next week.

[Cringer]

I don't know if it's over or not, but this is clearly all about promoting his new Sears commercial that is set to air in September in which Favre says about people who can't decide between tv's, "Yeah, I hate those guys."

[Logan]

I only thought about buying a Favre jersey and this is what happened. You're welcome Logan (I think it was you that requested I buy a Favre jersey after my Vick and Big Ben ones).

Yes it was. Thank you my good sir, I have a new admiration for our neighbors to the north!

Unfortunately he'll make a rumbling about coming back again during training camp, no effing doubt about it.

[Cringer]

Tweets from GB Press-Gazette Packer reporter Tom Peliserro...

How many times has favre now "retired" or "decided to stay retired"? By my count, there's 1. Early March, 2008 ... 2. Late March 2008 ...... 3. Feb. 11. ... 4. May (per disputed yahoo report) ... 5. Today. ... No reason to think he doesn't have one more in him

[Logan]

Impressive that he can capture all the retirements in the 140 character twitter limit.

[sovereignstar]

I officially hate Brett Favre now.

[JediKooter]

Who the hell is Brett Favre?

[Eaglesfan27]

And, thankfully, over.

Childress: Favre staying retired (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/51926357.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUvckD_V_jEyhD:UiD3aPc:_Yyc:aU7DYaGEP7vDEh7P:DiUs)

I'm shocked. I think this officially does end it. He teased the Vikings too long and seemed to be so intent on coming back that I think any team's interest in him has to fade to nothing at this point.

[sovereignstar]

The backtracking is going to be nauseating as a Vikings fan. All sorts of players wanted Favre to join. Allen, Peterson, Hutchinson, Berrian. All these guys were calling the goober very recently. Now it's going to be all, "Oh, adding Favre would've been nice, but we've got two very capable quarterbacks in Rosenfels and Jackson."

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz

[stevew]

I like Sage. I think he will bring just as much as gimpy favre could

[ISiddiqui]

I'm shocked. I think this officially does end it.

You are such an optimist.

[Thomkal]

Please please please let this be the end of it and we stop talking about Favre until he's eligible for the Hall of Fame. Great career, but man this drawn out retirement was not a good move on his part.

[Arles]

Favre's last move as a Packer - throw the Vikes into chaos as camp starts ;)

[thesloppy]

Favre will continue to keep throwing. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/28/favre-will-continue-to-keep-throwing/)

When Mariucci asked how Favre would feel about his decision Wednesday morning, Favre reportedly said, "I'm wondering that myself."

[PackerFanatic]

The backtracking is going to be nauseating as a Vikings fan. All sorts of players wanted Favre to join. Allen, Peterson, Hutchinson, Berrian. All these guys were calling the goober very recently. Now it's going to be all, "Oh, adding Favre would've been nice, but we've got two very capable quarterbacks in Rosenfels and Jackson."

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz

This is what I am most looking forward to.

[molson]

What a goof. I'm really hoping for it to keep going though. Just forever. I want to see him spurn two more teams, and then join and ruin a third for the next season.

[JonInMiddleGA]

He ought to go coach HS football somewhere. It would keep him around the game & keep him away from ESPN until the TV cameras showed up to do one of their games.

[Fighter of Foo]

:( I was all set to bet the Vikings under, and now he goes and does this. Fucking asshole.

[stevew]

I think the big thing is the consecutive starts. Once he misses week one I will believe he is done.

[Samdari]

:( I was all set to bet the Vikings under, and now he goes and does this. Fucking asshole.

You cannot possibly think that Rosenfels or Jackson will lead them to more wins than Favre would?

[Logan]

I do (Rosenfels at least).

[Samdari]

I do (Rosenfels at least).

Wow, I don't think he's one of the top 40 QB's in the NFL.

I don't think Favre is great anymore, I think he's passable. And better yet, he's still well above average on the deep ball. The threat of him throwing deep to Berrian would have made their running game even better (see: Thomas Jones 2008 vs 2007).

This leaves them with noone on the roster who approaches passable.

[flere-imsaho]

I'll believe it when the season's over and he still hasn't signed with anyone, because I'm calling it right now: at about 3/4ths through the season some team on the bubble and with a struggling (or crap, or injured) QB is going to think about signing Favre (or the sportswriters will do it for them) to get them to the promised land.

Mark my words. :D

On another note, I'd be pissed if I was a Vikings fan. Childress spent all this time screwing around with Favre to no avail when he could have done something more constructive to help his passing game. Now you get to watch ADP run into 11 guys 20 times a game again.

[Cap Ologist]

I was hoping for a diagram, flere.

[flere-imsaho]

I did a Favre one last week but sadly it's now out-of-date.... :(

[gstelmack]

I did a Favre one last week but sadly it's now out-of-date.... :(

A implies B.

[flere-imsaho]

yeah, yeah.... :p

[miami_fan]

I'll believe it when the season's over and he still hasn't signed with anyone, because I'm calling it right now: at about 3/4ths through the season some team on the bubble and with a struggling (or crap, or injured) QB is going to think about signing Favre (or the sportswriters will do it for them) to get them to the promised land.

Mark my words. :D

On another note, I'd be pissed if I was a Vikings fan. Childress spent all this time screwing around with Favre to no avail when he could have done something more constructive to help his passing game. Now you get to watch ADP run into 11 guys 20 times a game again.

Brett has already thrown out 1 November as a good date.:D

[flere-imsaho]

:D

[miami_fan]

Report: Jackson has sprained MCL

Tarvaris Jackson of Minnesota Vikings leaves field with reported MCL injury - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp09/news/story?id=4371142)


MANKATO, Minn. -- Minnesota Vikings quarterback Tarvaris Jackson suffered a sprained MCL after getting tangled with a teammate during a Saturday morning scrimmage, according to a report in the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

The Web site ProFootballTalk.com was the first to report the injury.

Jackson, who had an MRI exam according to the Star Tribune, was not on the field for practice later Saturday.

Jackson was injured when defensive lineman Letroy Guion fell at his feet and rolled over his leg during an 11-on-11 drill. Jackson folded to the field in pain as trainers rushed to check on him. After a few minutes, he was able to get up and walk off under his own power.

"I really don't know what happened," Guion said. "Everybody was moving so fast."

The fourth-year pro first received some attention at a tent on the side of the field before heading to the team's locker room area at Minnesota State University, Mankato.

Jackson is in a battle with Sage Rosenfels for the starting quarterback position after Brett Favre decided not to come out of retirement and join the Vikings.

"Whether it's Tarvaris or any of your guys, you don't want to see any of your guys go down, no matter who it is," offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell said after the morning practice. "Whether it's your quarterback, your third tight end, it doesn't matter. You don't like to see anybody have any type of injury."

The Vikings have held three practices since training camp began Friday, and Jackson and Rosenfels have been splitting the snaps with the first team.

"It's pretty tough [to see that], especially in practice," left tackle Bryant McKinnie said. "Hopefully he'll be all right."

In his first season on the job, Vikings coach Brad Childress drafted Jackson in the second round as his quarterback of the future. He has been up and down in his first three seasons in the league, which led to the summerlong recruitment of Favre.

When Favre called Childress on Tuesday to tell him he wasn't coming, the competition started anew for Jackson and Rosenfels.

Jackson's familiarity with the offense appears to have given him a slight edge so far, but it's still very early in the competition.

"At this time, Tarvaris has a little bit more knowledge of our system," Bevell said. "He is an athletic quarterback. He's got a very strong arm and those would be the positives about him."

[sovereignstar]

Just sayin...

Just sayin what?

[flere-imsaho]

On another note, I'd be pissed if I was a Vikings fan. Childress spent all this time screwing around with Favre to no avail when he could have done something more constructive to help his passing game. Now you get to watch ADP run into 11 guys 20 times a game again.

+2

:D

Edit: Although perhaps losing Jackson actually upgrades the passing game....

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm shocked. I think this officially does end it. He teased the Vikings too long and seemed to be so intent on coming back that I think any team's interest in him has to fade to nothing at this point.

Apparently, I was much too optimistic. Fox Sports is reporting that "unnamed Vikings players" expect Favre to join the Vikings in the very near future.

[sovereignstar]

I just can't imagine that totally avoiding training camp goes over well with all of your teammates. Is getting to know your receivers overrated?

[Logan]

I just can't imagine that totally avoiding training camp goes over well with all of your teammates. Is getting to know your receivers overrated?

He already has a great connection with DBs around the league.

[Cringer]

THis could branch off onto another thread/discussion very easily.... Worst ever preparation for a sports comeback?

Even Rick Moranis prepared more then this for his comeback.

[Groundhog]

He already has a great connection with DBs around the league.

:D

[Lathum]

ESPN reporting he is on a plane to Minnesota to sign.

[Passacaglia]

Oh, so this is what PF was talking about on facebook. I had a feeling.

[molson]

WCCO-Minneapolis expects a signing today

http://wcco.com/sports/brett.favre.minnesota.2.1133319.html

It's almost anti-climatic, like even the media is actually tired of this story.

[Lathum]

It's almost anti-climatic, like even the media is actually tired of this story.

why shouldn't they be, everyone else is.

[DaddyTorgo]

why shouldn't they be, everyone else is.

+1

I don't even care from a Minnesota/Green Bay perspective, but from the perspective of a fan of the game who's irritated that this guy seems to continually want to have the spotlight on him with his "okay i'm retired this time. absolutely. no way i'm coming back" celebrations to "oh no wait, actually i think i could come back...maybe...let me think about it" changing of his mind...it's just tiresome.

[Kodos]

I used to really like him, but I'd rather just see him go away at this point.

[PackerFanatic]

Oh, so this is what PF was talking about on facebook. I had a feeling.

And I thought you were kidding, heh.

And I am with Kodos. Not sure what he is trying to pull. I can understand not wanting to be away from the game, but then make up your mind because announcing a decision and then going back on it days later.

[molson]

He's kind of a sick man, if the reports about this being motivated by revenge on the Packers are true.

[kingfc22]

Ugh. ESPN needs to STFU and get off of Favre's nuts.

[Passacaglia]

And I thought you were kidding, heh.

And I am with Kodos. Not sure what he is trying to pull. I can understand not wanting to be away from the game, but then make up your mind because announcing a decision and then going back on it days later.

Well, I was kidding. Like I said, I had a feeling. When "PackerFanatic" makes a post whining about "you-know-who" and how he "doesn't care anymore" even without having heard the story, I was pretty sure Favre was involved.

[PackerFanatic]

Haha. Fair enough ;)

[molson]

So he sucked the last few years, and now he's older.

The Vikings are a good team, but I guess the management is making their own bed here, so I can't feel sorry for them.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ugh. ESPN needs to STFU and get off of Favre's nuts.

this too

[Mustang]

They had better get off to a fast start. A 1-3, 0-2 start and there will be plenty of grumbling on why you allowed someone to come in several weeks into training camp and assume the starting QB job.

[DaddyTorgo]

what's the logic in doing this again - aside from the fact that you're removing the ball from Peterson's hands that many more times a game - particularly with the game on the line when we all know Favre tries to press too much and ends up making big mistakes.

Seems like with a dynamite running game like they have that teams will be putting 7 or 8 in the box and you ought to be able to throw against them no matter who your QB is.

[PackerFanatic]

...I guess the management is making their own bed here, so I can't feel sorry for them.

Bingo. As a Packers fan, I can't complain.

[larrymcg421]

They had better get off to a fast start. A 1-3, 0-2 start and there will be plenty of grumbling on why you allowed someone to come in several weeks into training camp and assume the starting QB job.

Of course, if they go 3-1 or 4-0 despite his 70.5 QB rating, he will get praised for his "grit", "leadership", "knowing how to win", and a bunch of other crap that's going to make me sick all season long.

[Arles]

what's the logic in doing this again - aside from the fact that you're removing the ball from Peterson's hands that many more times a game - particularly with the game on the line when we all know Favre tries to press too much and ends up making big mistakes.

Seems like with a dynamite running game like they have that teams will be putting 7 or 8 in the box and you ought to be able to throw against them no matter who your QB is.
This. Sage actually looked pretty good in their preseason game as well.

At this point, Favre is like the Allen Iverson of the NFL. If you have nothing, he can take a load and win you 6-8 games. But, if you have a good team, he's going to take away high percentage chances (ie, All Day) and replace them with his lower percentage deep shots.

It's funny, my dad said when Favre announced his retirement that he thought Favre just didn't want to stay in the dorm with the other "kiddies". Looks like he may have been right.

[DaddyTorgo]

This. Sage actually looked pretty good in their preseason game as well.

At this point, Favre is like the Allen Iverson of the NFL. If you have nothing, he can take a load and win you 6-8 games. But, if you have a good team, he's going to take away high percentage chances (ie, All Day) and replace them with his lower percentage deep shots.

It's funny, my dad said when Favre announced his retirement that he thought Favre just didn't want to stay in the dorm with the other "kiddies". Looks like he may have been right.

exactly. and with AD forcing defenses to play 8 in the box against him and Sage looking OK in preseason so far (and maybe I'm the only person in the world who hasn't given up on Tavaris Jackson either), the team would have been alright. Not a SB-contender, but Favre certainly isn't enough to put them over that hump and make them a SB contender, nor is he a long-term solution, so he's just a band-aid for a problem they didn't have, and frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see them do worse than last year with him in there.

[mckerney]

Fuck, I knew he wasn't going to stay retired. Still hate Brett Favre, going to be hard to cheer for him this year...

[Danny]

Brett has never been a favorite of mine, but I generally liked him. I am so sick of him now too. For me, his reputation has been tarnished.

[Draft Dodger]

what a fucking maroon

[Dr. Sak]

Fuck, I knew he wasn't going to stay retired. Still hate Brett Favre, going to be hard to cheer for him this year...

At least you got Farve and not Vick :(

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yes!

[flere-imsaho]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[jbergey22]

exactly. and with AD forcing defenses to play 8 in the box against him and Sage looking OK in preseason so far (and maybe I'm the only person in the world who hasn't given up on Tavaris Jackson either), the team would have been alright. Not a SB-contender, but Favre certainly isn't enough to put them over that hump and make them a SB contender, nor is he a long-term solution, so he's just a band-aid for a problem they didn't have, and frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see them do worse than last year with him in there.

Sage is what he is. A QB that can read a defense fairly well and throw a lot of short passes. Playing against teams that stack the run you need a QB that can stretch the field and isnt afraid to take chances. Having Favre will open up the running game in which Sage couldnt scare a defense enough to open it up for AP. This move will make AP a 2000 yard rusher this year. I cant say I am happy about how it all came about but I am very happy that it finally happened as a Viking fan.

[flere-imsaho]

Let's not forget that Childress will be starting his 4th season as HC of the Vikings and that the spent a fair bit of the offseason trying to get Favre to play. While we shouldn't discount Favre's apparent desire to play for the Vikings (or at least against the Packers), this was always a gamble by Childress to get past the Wild Card this year.

[Samdari]

Sounds like this was a done deal when they announced Favre would not come back a few weeks ago.

"Coach, I want to come back, but I am too good for training camp"

"No problem, Boss, but I have to pretent to the other guys that I feel training camp is important, so here's what we're gonna say...."

[SegRat]

Big Packer fan, and was a big Favre fan, the way I feel now, fuck him! I am so sick of hearing about him every couple of weeks. He is such an ego maniac. I dont ever hope someone gets hurt, now I hope he blows his fucking knee out.

[PackerFanatic]

Speaking as unbias as I can, I still don't understand how Minnesota can think this is a good move (especially after, apparently, Sage had a decent outing in the first preseason game) Nobody (literally, nobody) knows what Favre will do after this season, so let's just say you sign him for 1 year. You are banking on a guy that is going to be turning 40 in 2 months and in the last couple of years, has shown he can't handle the big-pressure situations as he has in the past. Plus, this totally throws the chemistry of your team into a mess - and the worst part: you are letting Favre run the show. It just doesn't make much sense to me.

[larrymcg421]

Sage is what he is. A QB that can read a defense fairly well and throw a lot of short passes. Playing against teams that stack the run you need a QB that can stretch the field and isnt afraid to take chances. Having Favre will open up the running game in which Sage couldnt scare a defense enough to open it up for AP. This move will make AP a 2000 yard rusher this year. I cant say I am happy about how it all came about but I am very happy that it finally happened as a Viking fan.

You can't hand the ball off to AP when the other team has possession.

[Arles]

It's one thing for the Packers to put up with his retirement crap (he did win a Super Bowl for them). But I don't see why the Vikings are dealing with it. I also wonder how the "Diva" will feel about joining up with some of the guys who slammed him publicly once he announced his retirement (ie, Jared Allen).

[Eaglesfan27]

I used to really like him, but I'd rather just see him go away at this point.

Completely agreed. I was still in his corner until this last stunt. He should have come back a few weeks ago if he was going to come back.

[DataKing]

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

[Samdari]

It's one thing for the Packers to put up with his retirement crap (he did win a Super Bowl for them). But I don't see why the Vikings are dealing with it. I also wonder how the "Diva" will feel about joining up with some of the guys who slammed him publicly once he announced his retirement (ie, Jared Allen).


Reading some of the training camp visit reports yesterday, I get the impression Favre called them and said he was still coming, just after TC. Those reports died out with little fanfare.

[Mustang]

I see he has a partially torn rotator cuff too? Going on 40, repaired tendon, partially torn rotator cuff, new team, coming in after missing a few weeks of camp and all the OTA's... yeesh. Ok, have at it.

[Autumn]

The Vikings have a guy they can really build around in Peterson. The fact that they're going this direction instead of building for the future seems crazy. When Brett does retire they're just back at square one, and eveyrone's anohter year (if he lasts that long) older.

[TroyF]

I don't know how this is going to work out. (I think better than most people seem to think) I do have to say I'm amused at how everyone seems to be viewing Sage as a good game manager who fits the offense.

In his last 414 pass attempts, Sage has thrown 22 INT's. He's fumbled the ball 3 times in that span (losing 2)

Last year, Brett threw the ball 522 times and had 22 INT's. He fumbled 5 times and lost 0.

Sage is a worse game manager than Favre.

I dunno. Favre was actually pretty good until the final 5 games last year when he went to hell. If he gets better pass protection and nothing happens to AP, I think this makes the Viking a Super Bowl contender.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I see he has a partially torn rotator cuff too? Going on 40, repaired tendon, partially torn rotator cuff, new team, coming in after missing a few weeks of camp and all the OTA's... yeesh. Ok, have at it.
At least the Vikings aren't stuck with a healthy Kyle Orton.

:(

[ISiddiqui]

All I have to say is... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The story that just won't go away.

[mckerney]

The fact that they're going this direction instead of building for the future seems crazy.


Not when the situation is Childress is gone this year if they don't do anything in the playoffs.

[DataKing]

I feel like Favre needs a nickname...

How does Brett " :deadhorse:" Favre sound?

[DaddyTorgo]

I feel like Favre needs a nickname...

How does Brett " :deadhorse:" Favre sound?
:lol:

[Cringer]

Completely agreed. I was still in his corner until this last stunt. He should have come back a few weeks ago if he was going to come back.

Yeah, in my mind I would thinl reporting for camp and even going on the PUP list until now would have gone over better with teammates. But what do I know, probably not.

[Rizon]

In other surprising news: Lance Bass is gay.

[Arles]

I don't know how this is going to work out. (I think better than most people seem to think) I do have to say I'm amused at how everyone seems to be viewing Sage as a good game manager who fits the offense.

In his last 414 pass attempts, Sage has thrown 22 INT's. He's fumbled the ball 3 times in that span (losing 2)

Last year, Brett threw the ball 522 times and had 22 INT's. He fumbled 5 times and lost 0.

Sage is a worse game manager than Favre.

I dunno. Favre was actually pretty good until the final 5 games last year when he went to hell. If he gets better pass protection and nothing happens to AP, I think this makes the Viking a Super Bowl contender.
Favre with the Jets:
522 attempts, 65.7% completion, 6.7 yards per attempt, 22 TDs, 22 INTs, 10 fumbles (2 lost)

Sage in his last 15 games:
411 attempts, 65.7% completion, 7.6 yards per attempt, 21 TDs, 22 INTs, 8 fumbles (5 lost)

So, Sage has a higher TD %, higher yards per attempt and the same completion %. He is about 1% more likely to have a fumble/pick, but that's about all Favre has on him. Combine that with Favre's gimpy rotator cuff, his age and the fact that 9 of his 21 TDs came in 2 games against banged up defenses (SD and Arizona in weeks 3 and 4) - and I'm not sure where all this "Favre is a massive upgrade" information is coming from.

After the BYE in week 5, Favre played 12 games for the Jets and had 10 TDs, 18 INTs and 8 fumbles. That's Super Bowl material right there!

Edit: Here was that 12-game schedule: Cincy, Oakland, KC, Buffalo twice, StL, NE, Ten, Denver, SF, Seattle and Miami. That's teams with a combined winning % in the low 40s (only 3 over .500).

[DaddyTorgo]

fumbles/fumbles lost is largely a "luck" statistic too though isn't it? i mean it's impossible to say someone is more likely to have a fumble that will be lost (especially trying to neutralize for teammates). Who's to say that if Favre wasn't in Sage's position he wouldn't have lost 5 fumbles too. Because once he's down and he has fumbled the odds against HIM being in a position to recover it are very low - it's largely a function of his teammates...and now they'll have the same set of teammates

[mckerney]

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x134/turncoats1/Favre.jpg

Blarg.

[Cringer]

I am going to go take a dump in honor of Favre's career/legacy as a Packer.

[Arles]

You can't expect Leon to fumble the ball and pick it back up. Leon can't do everything!

[Cringer]

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x134/turncoats1/Favre.jpg

Blarg.

Wow, Fran Tarkenton unretired as well?

edit: just commenting on how old he looks there.

[Thomkal]

Please please please let this be the end of it and we stop talking about Favre until he's eligible for the Hall of Fame. Great career, but man this drawn out retirement was not a good move on his part.

*sigh*

[flere-imsaho]

Let's bear in mind that Favre's never been asked to be a "game manager" nor is he inclined to fill that role, while Sage has almost certainly never been asked to be anything but a "game manager".

With Sage, the Vikings are looking at a season of 8 defenders in the box and a decent, but hardly stellar record with the playoffs largely dependent on how crappy the rest of the division is.

With Favre, the Vikings could go 4-12 or 12-4.

It's a high-risk, high-reward gamble by a coach who figured he had another season of mediocrity or two before he got axed so instead of following through on trying to build or acquire a long-term solution at QB (and clearly Jackson wasn't it), he's gambling.

[larrymcg421]

Brett Favre clearly has such a large dick that he can knock people out of the way when they try to go after one of his fumbles. [/ESPN]

[DaddyTorgo]

you think favre can lead a team to 12-4 still?

i'll believe it when I see it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Posted by ESPN.com's Kevin Seifert ALLEN PARK, Mich. -- The rumors started spreading early Tuesday morning as I was watching Detroit go through a two-hour practice: A private airplane was in Hattiesburg, Miss., waiting to take Brett Favre (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=112) to Minnesota. I checked in with a few trustworthy people, and their tight-lipped reactions suggested that an event we have considered inevitable at times and impossible at others will become reality (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4406963).

So here is my unqualified reaction: Call it the three B's. What a Blatant, Brazen and Brilliant ploy to skip training camp and still be given the reins to a Super Bowl-caliber team.




this guy is smoking something...Minnesota a Super Bowl caliber team? That's really fuckin stretching the definition of Super Bowl caliber.

[DataKing]

Brett Favre clearly has such a large dick that he can knock people out of the way when they try to go after one of his fumbles. [/ESPN]

:lol:

[Thomkal]

Was it really necessary ESPN to show the local coverage from a helicopter showing Favre's car on the way to the Vikings facility? *sigh*

[flere-imsaho]

you think favre can lead a team to 12-4 still?


They play in the NFC North. Anything can happen.

[Cringer]

this guy is smoking something...Minnesota a Super Bowl caliber team? That's really fuckin stretching the definition of Super Bowl caliber.

Great running game, pretty damn good defense (based on last year of course), and Favre. I think Favre will do better then what most think he will do (not saying the levels of GREATNESS, but pretty good). That sounds like a Super Bowl level team. I mean, I take Favre now over Jim McMahon or Mark Rypien or even Trent Dilfer. Maybe I still have the blinders on just a little, I still think he may be able to match last season without the end of season fade.

Now....I do want him to fail. I am a Pacer fan after all. I also wonder wait to see how he starts off. I would expect a slow start based on injuries and no camp. In the end that may help him finish the season though and maybe he new knows what he is doing here.

Still, please fail. Go Pack Go!