Fire Letterman Rally

[Karlifornia]

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[rowech]

Just unbelievable...all there is to it.

[RainMaker]

This is Palin's "base"?

[KWhit]

That is epic.

[jeff061]

This is why I hate people.

[Comey]

Goddamn I hate Sarah Palin.

[sabotai]

"What do you think of Leno?"

"I....I only watch Fox News channel."

Haha, epic.

[RainMaker]

What was with the "sex offender" sign?

[Noop]

I hope those people step on a thumbtack barefooted in the middle of a Wisconsin winter.

[Big Fo]

All white people with all but one looking over 45 :)

:lol: at the one guy acting all miss thang when a passerby asked where he was from.

Palin supporters are still as embarrassing as they were in Fall 2008.

[JPhillips]

Doesn't "rape them in the mouth" come from Hamlet 2?

[Swaggs]

I'd love to see Letterman stick it to these folks (and Palin) and work with this for the next few weeks.

Let's be honest here: If CBS fires Letterman, he would have another job, probably with a raise, within a week.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, at NBC ;)

SI

[larrymcg421]

This is what's funny to me. Palin has for some reason singled out David Letterman, but it's not like he's the only one telling Bristol jokes:

"Sarah Palin is going to drop the first puck at the Philadelphia Flyers' hockey game. Then Palin will spend the rest of the game trying to keep the hockey players out of her daughter's penalty box." --Conan O'Brien

"You know, they're watching this interview, this is the first time she's really sat down and talked. Political experts say that during the interview, she did a pretty good job convincing voters that she's qualified. Yeah, Palin says she has plenty of experience, and that her daughter has a little too much experience." --Conan O'Brien

"Governor Palin announced over the weekend that her 17-year-old unmarried daughter is five months pregnant. Oh, boy, you thought John Edwards was in trouble before, now he's really done it!" --Jay Leno

[Logan]

Isn't all the uproar because it was actually her 14-year old that he was technically making fun of?

[larrymcg421]

I don't think anybody really believes he was making fun of the 14 year old. Sarah Palin has used that as part of her attack so she can imply he's a pedophile, but I seriously doubt even she thinks the joke is about Willow.

Now, it was actually the 14 year old daughter that was at the game referenced in the joke, but the whole point of the joke was based on Bristol Palin getting knocked up.

[Schmidty]

I think it's idiotic and juvenile how hard people are on Palin and her family, but a rally to fire Letterman because he made a rude, crappy joke? That's even more idiotic.

[RainMaker]

I'd love to see Letterman stick it to these folks (and Palin) and work with this for the next few weeks.

Let's be honest here: If CBS fires Letterman, he would have another job, probably with a raise, within a week.

CBS isn't firing Letterman because 15 mouth breathers with an IQ below 70 protested outside his studio. No one gives a shit about this besides those people and Fox News.

[Galaxy]

So did this people actually take off work to do this?

[Greyroofoo]

these people have jobs?

[Vegas Vic]

I think it's idiotic and juvenile how hard people are on Palin and her family, but a rally to fire Letterman because he made a rude, crappy joke? That's even more idiotic.

I wonder what the reaction from the media and general public would have been if Letterman had made an off color joke about Michelle Obama or one of her children?

[Schmidty]

I wonder what the reaction from the media and general public would have been if Letterman had made an off color joke about Michelle Obama or one of her children?

Letterman would have been instantly incinerated by God.

[Karlifornia]

I wonder what the reaction from the media and general public would have been if Letterman had made an off color joke about Michelle Obama or one of her children?

Well, first of all, those kids are even younger, and second, none of the Obama children have been knocked up by a hockey player while still in HS. So I suppose the reaction would be a bit different. Probably more confusion than anything else.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

http://www.wowowow.com/files/imagecache/300x/2009_0520_People_Bristol_PalinSQUARE.jpg

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think it's idiotic and juvenile how hard people are on Palin and her family...

She's a public figure. She brought her family into the public spotlight. This isn't 1/10th as bad as the stuff the Clintons suffered through. While I don't even know what the joke was (nor do I care to know), if you parade your family across the stage and make them a big part of your vice presidential campaign, then you're going to have to take it.

It's not like roasting politicians and/or their families is something new. This kind of thing has been going on hundreds, if not, thousands of years.

[BYU 14]

Isn't all the uproar because it was actually her 14-year old that he was technically making fun of?

Technically it was more a jab at A-Rod. I am sure he didn't know which Daughter was at the game, but he was definitely referencing Bristol.

[Vegas Vic]

Well, first of all, those kids are even younger, and second, none of the Obama children have been knocked up by a hockey player while still in HS. So I suppose the reaction would be a bit different. Probably more confusion than anything else.

I see.

As for the top ten list with Palin's "slutty flight attendant" look, I suppose you have some similar rationalization that a top ten list with an inappropriate slur on Michelle Obama would be treated no differently.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

She doesn't have a slutty flight attendant look?

[BYU 14]

She's a public figure. She brought her family into the public spotlight. This isn't 1/10th as bad as the stuff the Clintons suffered through. While I don't even know what the joke was (nor do I care to know), if you parade your family across the stage and make them a big part of your vice presidential campaign, then you're going to have to take it.

It's not like roasting politicians and/or their families is something new. This kind of thing has been going on hundreds, if not, thousands of years.

Bingo. She tried to use Bristols "mistake" as an example of what girls should do if they did become pregnant. In fact at times she shoved it down our throats, so she really has no right to be upset if people choose to continue to joke about it.

What she really needs to be doing is taking her ass back to Alaska and letting her 15 minutes end gracefully. She spends more time in the lower 48 it seems than her own state, which still has plenty to keep her busy in her "day" job as Governor. Maybe she could start by tackling one of the worst per capita gang problems in the US for instance.

[Schmidty]

This kind of thing has been going on hundreds, if not, thousands of years.

That doesn't make it any better, nor does it make the people that participate in it any less sleazy or lame. It's like political tabloid shit. And the worst part is that supposedly/otherwise intelligent people participate in or defend this crap. It makes me almost disregard a lot of their other points because they accept something so irrational.

[Toddzilla]

LOL - East Side Dave from the Ron & Fez show was in that clip :)

[BYU 14]

That doesn't make it any better, nor does it make the people that participate in it any less sleazy or lame. It's like political tabloid shit. And the worst part is that supposedly/otherwise intelligent people participate in or defend this crap. It makes me almost disregard a lot of their other points because they're accept something so irrational.

I don't think thats the issue. People have the right to say it and people have the right to react to it as they see fit. I choose to ignore shit like this because it is stupid and in the end doesn't affect anyones quality of life.

If I am going to put my time and energy into something it will be something more relevant than a fire Letterman campaign, but if others think that will make the world a better place more power to them. He apologized, move on.

[Honolulu_Blue]

What she really needs to be doing is taking her ass back to Alaska and letting her 15 minutes end gracefully. She spends more time in the lower 48 it seems than her own state, which still has plenty to keep her busy in her "day" job as Governor. Maybe she could start by tackling one of the worst per capita gang problems in the US for instance.

This is the most annoying/worst part about this whole thing. It's bringing this woman back into the spotlight. She needs to be forgotten. A non-entity. The last thing I want is for her name to remain in the public conscious. She needs to be completely and utterly forgotten. It's the best thing for her, her family, and, most of all, our country and the rest of the free world.

[Karlifornia]

I see.

As for the top ten list with Palin's "slutty flight attendant" look, I suppose you have some similar rationalization that a top ten list with an inappropriate slur on Michelle Obama would be treated no differently.

It probably would be just a flip flop. The batshit left-wingers would be out protesting, much like the batshit right-ringers did yesterday (or whichever day it took place)

[SnowMan]

What she really needs to be doing is taking her ass back to Alaska and letting her 15 minutes end gracefully. She spends more time in the lower 48 it seems than her own state, which still has plenty to keep her busy in her "day" job as Governor. Maybe she could start by tackling one of the worst per capita gang problems in the US for instance.

There's lots of "per capita" stats that Alaska's 700k population skews. Not sure I'd say there's more of a "gang problem" here than in many places in America.

Now, if you accuse us of having the most ugly women per capita, I think you've made a very valid point...

[RainMaker]

I see.

As for the top ten list with Palin's "slutty flight attendant" look, I suppose you have some similar rationalization that a top ten list with an inappropriate slur on Michelle Obama would be treated no differently.
Wasn't she called anti-American throughout the entire campaign? On top of the racist stuff that ignorant people (including members of the GOP) spout even to this day.

I do think the daughter is brought up because Palin has had an abstinence stance. The pregnancy showed how utterly ignorant her stance is and the realistic expectations that teens won't have sex (or that birth control is wrong). She also used her family heavily in campaigning (which everyone does). Unfortunately that exposes them to the public ire as unfortunate as that is. You can't parade your family and their views out in public for political gain and then have a fit when someone questions them.

I think the joke made by Letterman was tasteless. Family really should have no role in any of this. I don't care if it's the Palin kids or the Obama kids. They aren't running for office. But this shit does go on all the time and I think this faux outrage is worse than the slur. People are making fun of them because they are upset at a joke about her daughter, but at the same time calling Letterman's 5-year old son a bastard and his wife a whore. More or less just pointing out the hypocrisy and idiocy of these people. Whoever is advising Palin is a moron.

[Axxon]

I see.

As for the top ten list with Palin's "slutty flight attendant" look, I suppose you have some similar rationalization that a top ten list with an inappropriate slur on Michelle Obama would be treated no differently.

Doesn't really matter. Even Sarah didn't express being upset about being the brunt of a joke. She was pissed because her daughter was. That is, assuming she's being on the level.

Of course, lets not go all hypothetical. We have a real life example of something equally cruel coming from the leader of the Republican Party.

hxxp://www.noseyonline.com/2004/06/not_quite_the_family_dog_eh_ru.php

More time travelling...

All that aside, Limbaugh's recent remarks directed at two Sept. 11 widows veer so far off his worn propaganda path that they bypass his "insensitive and inappropriate" statements concerning Donovan McNabb and venture into the realm of another shameful moment in broadcast history -- when he lit into 13-year-old Chelsea Clinton in 1993. "Everyone knows the Clintons have a cat. Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is a White House dog?" Limbaugh said on TV, before holding up a picture of Chelsea.

He never got fired, I don't recall it hurting his career and I certainly recall absolutely ZERO right wing outrage over this. Be very careful before you start playing the hypocrite card because this is a two way steet baybee.

Personally I think both jokes are in bad taste and while maybe, possibly, in some way Willow may have been made to feel that this joke was about her, there's zero doubt in Chelsea's case and she was only 13. I think negatively about both jokes but didn't fly off the handle with either of them and don't think the tellers deserved to be fired or even protested. That's the comedian's fucking job.

There yah go.

[Galaxy]

Wasn't she called anti-American throughout the entire campaign? On top of the racist stuff that ignorant people (including members of the GOP) spout even to this day.

I do think the daughter is brought up because Palin has had an abstinence stance. The pregnancy showed how utterly ignorant her stance is and the realistic expectations that teens won't have sex (or that birth control is wrong). She also used her family heavily in campaigning (which everyone does). Unfortunately that exposes them to the public ire as unfortunate as that is. You can't parade your family and their views out in public for political gain and then have a fit when someone questions them.

I think the joke made by Letterman was tasteless. Family really should have no role in any of this. I don't care if it's the Palin kids or the Obama kids. They aren't running for office. But this shit does go on all the time and I think this faux outrage is worse than the slur. People are making fun of them because they are upset at a joke about her daughter, but at the same time calling Letterman's 5-year old son a bastard and his wife a whore. More or less just pointing out the hypocrisy and idiocy of these people. Whoever is advising Palin is a moron.

Calling him a sex offender is pretty poor.

[larrymcg421]

Actually, many right wingers actually believe Limbaugh's assinine excuse that they were supposed to show a picture of a dog and not Chelsea.

[Axxon]

I think the joke made by Letterman was tasteless. Family really should have no role in any of this. I don't care if it's the Palin kids or the Obama kids. They aren't running for office. But this shit does go on all the time and I think this faux outrage is worse than the slur. People are making fun of them because they are upset at a joke about her daughter, but at the same time calling Letterman's 5-year old son a bastard and his wife a whore. More or less just pointing out the hypocrisy and idiocy of these people. Whoever is advising Palin is a moron.

I agree but I think Palin herself deserves a pass on her reaction. She's a mother and she's not particularly gifted in the PR department. She got her hackles up. I understand her reaction even though to someone not intimately involved it's an overreaction.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

She doesn't have a slutty flight attendant look?

No.

She has the look of a professional, intelligent woman who loves this country and upholds good, conservative, family values.












:lol:

[Axxon]

Actually, many right wingers actually believe Limbaugh's assinine excuse that they were supposed to show a picture of a dog and not Chelsea. I think all of those people were at the fire Dave rally though.

[larrymcg421]

I agree but I think Palin herself deserves a pass on her reaction. She's a mother and she's not particularly gifted in the PR department. She got her hackles up. I understand her reaction even though to someone not intimately involved it's an overreaction.

I would understand her reaction if she was upset at jokes being made about Bristol. Even if it is her fault to some degree for putting her daughter in the limelight, picking on family members (especially for something I don't really view as a bad thing, as opposed to say the Bush daughter DUI) is in poor taste. However, Palin couldn't just have that, she had to make this all about Willow, who no one has nor ever will give a shit about, because it makes for a good line of attack where she can basically call Letterman a pedophile. Sure she gets an extended 15 minutes of fame by doing this, but she thrusts another daughter into the spotlight in a situation where it's painfully obvious he was talking about Bristol.

[RainMaker]

I agree but I think Palin herself deserves a pass on her reaction. She's a mother and she's not particularly gifted in the PR department. She got her hackles up. I understand her reaction even though to someone not intimately involved it's an overreaction.

I really think someone pushed her into making this an issue. She did all the rounds on television for some reason. It just came across as faux outrage. Would have been better to make one press release and shown some tougher skin.

[Axxon]

I would understand her reaction if she was upset at jokes being made about Bristol. Even if it is her fault to some degree for putting her daughter in the limelight, picking on family members (especially for something I don't really view as a bad thing, as opposed to say the Bush daughter DUI) is in poor taste. However, Palin couldn't just have that, she had to make this all about Willow, who no one has nor ever will give a shit about, because it makes for a good line of attack where she can basically call Letterman a pedophile. Sure she gets an extended 15 minutes of fame by doing this, but she thrusts another daughter into the spotlight in a situation where it's painfully obvious he was talking about Bristol.

I can certainly see this as a possibility but to be honest I can easily believe that she really did believe it was about Willow at first ( deep thinking not being a strong point and when family is involved, I wouldn't even blame a deep thinker ) and had worked up all kind of mad about it and when she was confronted with reality she didn't care anymore. She didn't get the pitbull in lipstick tag for being all reasonable and frankly, calling for children to be off limits isn't a nonsensical thought. The firing and all that is an overreaction but I don't recall Palin herself calling for anything but an apology. I could so be wrong about this last part though. I haven't really followed it that closely.

I guess I could go either way and choose to give her the aggrieved parent benefit of the doubt. I have a whole lot of problems with her ideology and politics but personally have seen nothing that shows she's not a caring and loving mother. Mothers do some funky shit when they feel their babies are attacked.

[Axxon]

I really think someone pushed her into making this an issue. She did all the rounds on television for some reason. It just came across as faux outrage. Would have been better to make one press release and shown some tougher skin. Yep, but she doesn't have the PR sense to know that and since her act plays well to the base I can understand her handler pushing the outrage card and fanning her very real outrage. I just can't see blaming Palin for that in this case. It's nothing new for her anyway and she kinda has a reason to be mad.

[MJ4H]

Just watched the video and have no idea what the hell that was all about but it looked 100% ridiculous. These are the kinds of videos you wish you could sit down and show people so they could see how fucking stupidly they are acting in public.

[Sgran]

Anyone who enjoyed this clip should see the movie Bob Roberts. One of Roberts' fanatical followers is played by Jack Black.

[miked]

There wasn't this much outrage recently when the GOP leader of South Carolina called an escaped gorilla at the zoo one of Michele Obama's ancestors. Of course, he tried to play it off as a comment on evolution, one that she never made.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good to see the NY/NJ Idiot convention getting the attention it deserves.

[sterlingice]

No.

She has the look of a professional, intelligent woman who loves this country and upholds good, conservative, family values.












:lol:

Aw, you almost had me there for a second ;)

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

Aw, you almost had me there for a second ;)

SI

he had me. i was like :eek:

[BYU 14]

Now, if you accuse us of having the most ugly women per capita, I think you've made a very valid point...

You have Women??

[lungs]

Now, if you accuse us of having the most ugly women per capita, I think you've made a very valid point...

We'd give you a good run for your money here in Wisconsin.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just my two cents...........

I think there's merit in the thought that people are far too judgmental of women and his jokes were pretty crude given we're dealing with an 18 year old. While that's legal, she's still a young kid. I'd be pissed if he said that about my child, regardless of her previous errors in judgment.

Unfortunately, any discussion of merit is being overshadowed by the idiots who are taking the rape/child molester angle way too far.

[Kodos]

Considering there shouldn't be a rape/child molester angle at all.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Considering there shouldn't be a rape/child molester angle at all.

Exactly.

[molson]

I wish they would just leave the kids alone. Chelsea was nationally mocked for being ugly when she was in her teens - it was just ridiculous, it's amazing she didn't kill herself. (And I hate the argument that it's OK once Bristol turns 18 - we're not talking about a driver's license here).

I guess this is one of the benefits of the Obama media/popular culture love fest, his kids appear to be untouchable. Maybe that will kill this whole "tradition".

[DaddyTorgo]

wasn't it McCain who said that Janet Reno was Chelsea's father or something?

[Kodos]

Yep. It'd be better if we could just focus the attacks on the politicians themselves.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

And I hate the argument that it's OK once Bristol turns 18 - we're not talking about a driver's license here

To be fair, I don't think (most) people are saying she's "fair game" at 18, just that the joke was meant to be about an 18 year old and David Letterman is not some pedophile tongue rapist.

[molson]

To be fair, I don't think (most) people are saying she's "fair game" at 18, just that the joke was meant to be about an 18 year old and David Letterman is not some pedophile tongue rapist.

Fair enough, but a lot of people (in this thread) are saying she's fair game because....Palin brought them on stage once. God forbid she recognize her family on the biggest night of her life.

Not that I think Letterman should be fired or anything, but good for Palin for probably getting the late night hosts to shut up about her kids. Would people not want to do the same if it were their kids? Not mocking her kids will just be the "cool" underground/internet thing to do, I don't think we'll be seeing much of it in the mainstream anymore.

[albionmoonlight]

The fact that this thread is already two pages long demonstrates that, whatever you think about Palin, she stokes the fires. Never a bad trait for a politician.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Fair enough, but a lot of people (in this thread) are saying she's fair game because....Palin brought them on stage once. God forbid she recognize her family on the biggest night of her life.

Well, to be perfectly honest, I think that Bristol became fair game once she chose to appear on the cover of People magazine. I don't think the joke was particularly funny, it definitely wasn't clever, and I don't even watch late night network shows. However, I think that putting yourself in the public eye like that has a downside, and either her mom is milking this for as much publicity/political gain as possible (my bet), or they truly didn't understand that putting yourself in the public arena comes with a lot of scrutiny, not all of it fair (which would make them at best naive, at worst incredibly stupid).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Well, to be perfectly honest, I think that Bristol became fair game once she chose to appear on the cover of People magazine. I don't think the joke was particularly funny, it definitely wasn't clever, and I don't even watch late night network shows. However, I think that putting yourself in the public eye like that has a downside, and either her mom is milking this for as much publicity/political gain as possible (my bet), or they truly didn't understand that putting yourself in the public arena comes with a lot of scrutiny, not all of it fair (which would make them at best naive, at worst incredibly stupid).

This "fair game" comment really rubs me the wrong way. If you were in her parents' shoes, you would have reacted just as strongly. It's never OK to make jokes at the expense of a young, impressionable girl. That includes all the other examples cited in this thread. As another poster mentioned, Chelsea got the same crap and it was way out of line.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

So, are you outraged when Lindsay Lohan gets mocked?

[DaddyTorgo]

So, are you outraged when Lindsay Lohan gets mocked?

isn't that somewhat different though because Lohan put herself in the public eye by virtue of her chosen occupation, while politicians' daughters are in the public eye through an accident of birth?

i'm sure one could make that argument

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

My point, which I made above, is that by CHOOSING to go on the cover of PEOPLE MAGAZINE, you are no longer in the public eye through an accident of birth.

[Samdari]

Now, if you accuse us of having the most ugly women per capita, I think you've made a very valid point...

You have Women??

Best strip club in America, with VERY hot women, is in Alaska.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

My point, which I made above, is that by CHOOSING to go on the cover of PEOPLE MAGAZINE, you are no longer in the public eye through an accident of birth.

But she's not being jabbed because of anything she said in that People Magazine article. If anything, she came off as a pretty good, if somewhat naive, kid who handled herself well. She did nothing other than what many teenage mothers have done before her. That doesn't mean she's a whore as Letterman's joke implied (and you're foolish if you think the intent was anything other than to demean her in that way).

Lindsey Lohan is getting lambasted due to her inappropriate lifestyle that she chose. That's a much different situation.

[DaddyTorgo]

My point, which I made above, is that by CHOOSING to go on the cover of PEOPLE MAGAZINE, you are no longer in the public eye through an accident of birth.

i can see your point with that.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

But she's not being jabbed because of anything she said in that People Magazine article. If anything, she came off as a pretty good, if somewhat naive, kid who handled herself well. She did nothing other than what many teenage mothers have done before her. That doesn't mean she's a whore as Letterman's joke implied (and you're foolish if you think the intent was anything other than to demean her in that way).

Lindsey Lohan is getting lambasted due to her inappropriate lifestyle that she chose. That's a much different situation.

It's not fair - of course - but people who are in the public eye aren't treated fairly. A big reason why I'd never want to be famous.

[Arles]

First, these groups in the video are the white equivalent of Jesse Jackson and are a complete joke. They deserve whatever ridicule they get from an asinine demonstration.

Well, to be perfectly honest, I think that Bristol became fair game once she chose to appear on the cover of People magazine.
I think this is pretty silly. Does the fact that the Obama girls appeared on People magazine mean they are fair game?

http://cdn.buzznet.com/media-cdn/jj1/headlines/2008/07/obama-people-magazine-cover.jpg
Leave the kids out of it - all it does it make the side attacking look bitter and (ironically) childish.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

To rebut, Arles, Bristol was on there discussing life as a teenage mother - which is the origin of the joke. She was using that part of her life to increase her fame, which leads to people taking shots at you. I would argue that Bristol Palin would have largely faded into the "Where Are They Now" portion of her life except for her choices to keep herself in the public eye. Like the Octomom - if she weren't out pimping herself to whoever will put her on TV, no one would be mocking her.

If the Obama children had something about them that would lead to them getting mocked (see Chelsea's unfortuante awkward looks) then they too should not be pushed out into the public eye because people are dicks. I want to reiterate that I don't think in any way that Bristol DESERVES to be treated like this, but one can't say they're SURPRISED by it at all.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

She was using that part of her life to increase her fame, which leads to people taking shots at you.

That's a pretty faulty characterization. Everything in that article indicates she was using it as a platform to lend support to those young girls that end up in a similar situation. That's not something that warrants 'people taking shots at you'. That's far from trying to 'increase her fame'. Would you mind citing the specific quotes where you feel she's trying to use it to increase her fame as opposed to openly discussing her situation to inform others?

You're looking for a motive that's simply not there.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I guess you're far less cynical than I, MBBF.

[flere-imsaho]

I think it's idiotic and juvenile how hard people are on Palin and her family

In 2008, as McCain's running mate, Palin makes a big deal (amongst other items) of being behind abstinence-only education, on top of a collection of other right-wing "family values" pablum.

Her daughter becomes pregnant and she and her boyfriend (now fiancee) are paraded in front of the public in an obvious "shotgun wedding" (to detractors) / "demonstration of family values" (to supporters).

Bristol has the kid and hits up the media outlets claiming to be the poster child for why to avoid teen pregnancy, all the while glamorizing it (see the "People" pictures) and admitting that abstinence is "not realistic".

Sorry, the public gets off on hypocrisy, especially if it involves sordid details and hot chicks. I'm absolutely not surprised that the Palins are getting hammered for this.

[JeeberD]

I got an e-mail at work the other day from corporate and the subject line read something like, "Talking Points re: Palin/Letterman Controversy"

My first reaction was, what in the hell does that have to do with OG and why should I expect anyone to ask me about it? Well, it turns out that OG advertises during Letterman and ever since this whole thing has developed the home office has received numerous phone calls asking how we can dare advertise with him, blah blah blah...

Idiots.

[flere-imsaho]

Or, as written by Gail Collins: (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/opinion/07collins.html?pagewanted=print)

“Just because you’re wearing high-heeled sexy shoes doesn’t mean you should have a baby,” said Neil Cole.

I believe we can all rally around this sentiment.

Cole is the head of Iconix, a company that makes the Candie’s line of teen fashions. A couple of years ago, under fire from critics who accused him of dressing high schoolers like tarts, he established the Candie’s Foundation, which fights teen pregnancy. And there he was on Wednesday introducing the foundation’s new teen ambassador, Bristol Palin.

Palin is not in any way to be confused with the new Candie’s brand spokesperson, Britney Spears. Bristol is the one endorsing abstinence; Britney is the one promoting “hot bottoms.”

Can I say upfront that this is a terrible, terrible idea? Not the sexy clothes. Perhaps in the best of all possible worlds we would not have 12-year-olds dressing as if they were auditioning for a leading role in “Girls Gone Wild,” but history suggests that resistance is futile. There was one minute back in the late 1960s when the women’s movement tried to convince everyone that being liberated involved wearing sensible shoes. It was not a success. Really, you should never try to impose feminist principles that even Gloria Steinem refuses to pay attention to.

But surely, when it comes to combating teen pregnancy, the Palin family has done enough damage already. What worse message could you send to teenage girls than the one they delivered at the Republican convention: If your handsome but somewhat thuglike boyfriend gets you with child, he will clean up nicely, propose marriage, and show up at an important family event wearing a suit and holding your hand. At which point you will get a standing ovation.

Now a single mom on the outs with the father of her baby, Bristol wants a new kind of happy ending.

“I just want to go out there and promote abstinence and say this is the safest choice,” she said on “Good Morning America.”

“It’s not going to work,” said her ex-boyfriend, Levi Johnston, in a dueling early-morning interview.

If you have ever watched Levi Johnston on TV for two minutes you will appreciate how terrifying it is when he has the most reasonable analysis of a social issue.

Because Bristol’s own philosophy seems, at minimum, tentative, it’s hard to tell whether she believes that cheerleading for abstinence should be coupled with education about birth control methods. She and Levi used condoms, except when they didn’t.

Her mom has said in the past that she opposes “explicit” sex education, which kind of sounds like ... sex education. And while encouraging kids to wait is obviously fine, the evidence is pretty clear that abstinence education is worse than useless. Texas, where virtually all the schools teach abstinence and abstinence alone, is a teen pregnancy disaster zone. “It’s had one of the highest rates for as long as I can remember,” said David Wiley, a professor of health education at Texas State University.

Bristol appeared Wednesday at Event to Prevent, a teen town hall, during which she said very little except to assure her audience that having a baby is no picnic. (“You have so much responsibility. It’s just hard work all the time.”) It’s hard not to suspect that for her, being the anti-pregnancy ambassador is just a good excuse to get out of Wasilla.

But where were her parents? Her mom ought to know by now that the only way to protect your family from becoming tabloid fodder is to make it clear to the media that the kids are absolutely, totally off limits. You can’t put them on network TV one day and then complain the next when a reporter asks whether the baby’s other grandmother is still facing drug charges.

“We contacted the governor’s office, and the next thing we knew Todd Palin was on the phone and said Bristol wanted to talk,” Cole said, explaining how his ambassador had been recruited. And indeed, there was Todd, beaming as his beautiful daughter stood in front of about 50 shrieking photographers, smiling a fixed smile.

We have seen so many bad plans about breaching the public-private divide lately. Elizabeth Edwards’s book tour. Eliot Spitzer’s media blitz. (Can we point out here that when 51 percent of the public tells pollsters that they would rather have Spitzer as governor than the current incumbent, David Paterson, that is not the same as saying they would like Spitzer to come back? You could probably get 51 percent of the voters to say they would rather have Vlad the Impaler than David Paterson. Or at least 30.)

But when a teenager goes out on this kind of mission, you have to wonder where her parents’ heads were. What does this say about Sarah Palin’s judgment?

Although we’ve sort of answered that question before.

[Mike Lowe]

"What do you think of Leno?"

"I....I only watch Fox News channel."

Haha, epic.


Haha, I was thinking the same thing. FOX eh? BIG surprise!

[Lathum]

I got an e-mail at work the other day from corporate and the subject line read something like, "Talking Points re: Palin/Letterman Controversy"

My first reaction was, what in the hell does that have to do with OG and why should I expect anyone to ask me about it? Well, it turns out that OG advertises during Letterman and ever since this whole thing has developed the home office has received numerous phone calls asking how we can dare advertise with him, blah blah blah...

Idiots.

Idiots yes, but this is how people in Lettermans position get fired.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I guess you're far less cynical than I, MBBF.

So it was your opinion without any basis in the article. That's fine, but don't state is as fact. Take my word for it since I've been known to make that mistake. :)

Regarding your other comment that 'no one should be surprised', it doesn't really matter whether anyone is surprised. As you correctly stated, it was wrong no matter what the motive.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

So it was your opinion without any basis in the article. That's fine, but don't state is as fact. Take my word for it since I've been known to make that mistake. :)

Seems to me this is an opinion thread. Really confused about how you could have interpreted me saying "She did this for fame" as fact, that seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Regarding your other comment that 'no one should be surprised', it doesn't really matter whether anyone is surprised. As you correctly stated, it was wrong no matter what the motive.

Sure, I could rail about how popular culture takes cheap shots at people, but that's pretty obvious. What's more interesting to me is why she would put herself in a position to be shot at.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sure, I could rail about how popular culture takes cheap shots at people, but that's pretty obvious. What's more interesting to me is why she would put herself in a position to be shot at.

We're going in circles here. That's already been explained by several posters. Discussing her experience as a teen mother in a publication does not equal 'putting herself in a position to be shot at'. Even if you don't agree with her 'abstinence' stance, it doesn't warrant a personal attack on her by a public figure. Cracking on the parents for their stance is well-warranted.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

We're going in circles here. That's already been explained by several posters. Discussing her experience as a teen mother in a publication does not equal 'putting herself in a position to be shot at'. Even if you don't agree with her 'abstinence' stance, it doesn't warrant a personal attack on her by a public figure. Cracking on the parents for their stance is well-warranted.

I think I'm ready to agree to disagree as well. If you changed "does not equal" to "should not equal" I'd agree with you. I'm the kind of person who would never want to be famous, because whether its fair or not famous people get shat on.

[DaddyTorgo]

In 2008, as McCain's running mate, Palin makes a big deal (amongst other items) of being behind abstinence-only education, on top of a collection of other right-wing "family values" pablum.

Her daughter becomes pregnant and she and her boyfriend (now fiancee) are paraded in front of the public in an obvious "shotgun wedding" (to detractors) / "demonstration of family values" (to supporters).

Bristol has the kid and hits up the media outlets claiming to be the poster child for why to avoid teen pregnancy, all the while glamorizing it (see the "People" pictures) and admitting that abstinence is "not realistic".

Sorry, the public gets off on hypocrisy, especially if it involves sordid details and hot chicks. I'm absolutely not surprised that the Palins are getting hammered for this.

I gotta say, that's a pretty fair summation of the situation.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think I'm ready to agree to disagree as well. If you changed "does not equal" to "should not equal" I'd agree with you. I'm the kind of person who would never want to be famous, because whether its fair or not famous people get shat on.

+1

[RendeR]

We're going in circles here. That's already been explained by several posters. Discussing her experience as a teen mother in a publication does not equal 'putting herself in a position to be shot at'. Even if you don't agree with her 'abstinence' stance, it doesn't warrant a personal attack on her by a public figure. Cracking on the parents for their stance is well-warranted.


Umm, no, her abstinance stance warrents whatever it gets, she didn't follow it, but now tries to say its the way to go? hindsight is 20/20 or something.

Her mother is a moron, a power hungry angry-bitch moron. SHe takes advantage of anyone and everyone she can for personal gain and then, THEN, when something happens that ruins her use of them she has the uadacity to get upset about it?

Please. That entire family should be flushed. Along with anyone supporting them.

[RendeR]

I gotta say, that's a pretty fair summation of the situation.


+100000

[Pumpy Tudors]

Wasn't the purpose of the thread to make fun of the nutjobs? What's wrong with you people? :(

[sterlingice]

Wasn't the purpose of the thread to make fun of the nutjobs? What's wrong with you people? :(

One could argue that they are, what with all the talk about the Palin family *rimshot* Am I right? Can I get a little applause here?

Wait, that sounded too stupid and like a joke a late night talk show host would make ;)

SI

[RendeR]

Those arguing about the jokes being wrong are obviously not tuned in to what gets ratings and what makes money.

You also seem to care what a late night comedian says....

kinda sad all told.

Who gives a fuck what letterman says anyway? he's an old fart whose riding the coattails of his career using whatever material he can find.

and you think it MATTERS?

[cartman]

Those arguing about the jokes being wrong are obviously not tuned in to what gets ratings and what makes money.

You also seem to care what a late night comedian says....

kinda sad all told.

Who gives a fuck what letterman says anyway? he's an old fart whose riding the coattails of his career using whatever material he can find.

and you think it MATTERS?

You sound like someone who enjoys spending $10/oz for steak.

:D

[RendeR]

You sound like someone who enjoys spending $10/oz for steak.

:D


LOL umm....yeah thats...no..no just step AWAY from the conversation =)

[larrymcg421]

I really can't stand it when people refuse to engage the debate in an honest way. "Brought her up on stage once"? Yeah that's all we're talking about. Give me a break. She used her to make a point about responsibility and values that tied into her campaign theme. That's certainly different than just simply putting her on stage. And it turned out to be the show that many people assumed at the time. I don't think anyone was surprised when they didn't get married.

I think some of the comparisons being used aren't apt either. For instance, I think there's a difference between a joke about the choices someone made and joking about something they can't control. For instance, jokes about the Bush daughter DUI or Gore's son are about situations they put themselves in. The Bristol situation is a little more sketchy, because I don't consider what she did a bad thing and the joke borders the taste line, but it's still a joke about a decision she made. Jokes about Chelsea Clinton were about something she had no control over. And jokes about the Obama daughters would certainly be over the line, just as the Letterman joke would have been way over the line if it actually was about Willow.

[path12]

I'm just weary of outrage.

[molson]

I really can't stand it when people refuse to engage the debate in an honest way. "Brought her up on stage once"? Yeah that's all we're talking about. Give me a break. She used her to make a point about responsibility and values that tied into her campaign theme. That's certainly different than just simply putting her on stage. And it turned out to be the show that many people assumed at the time. I don't think anyone was surprised when they didn't get married.
.

The stage "incident" is most commonly cited.

But it still escapes me how a political candidate's decisions make it OK to attack their children in tasteless ways. Bristol wasn't Palin's campaign manager, as far as I know. And the idea that Palin is somehow wrong to be upset that someone is attacking her children is just bizarre.

It's all about Palin though, you can see it in this thread. The weird hate comes first, then the scramble for the justification.

Both Palin and Hillary Clinton get a disproportionate amount of raw anger, considering their actual influence. Sexism in this country is far more prevalent than racism, and it's more accepted. You can say "bitch", any other gender slur all you want. The racial slurs on the other and have an aura of universal wrongness. Which is good, I just wonder if we'll ever reach that point with sexism.

(I should point out that people who criticize Palin aren't sexist. I think it exists in the over-the-top hate about wardrobe criticisms, the "slutty stewardess" stuff, the "bitch" attitude (which Hillary Clinton gets a ton of too even though by a male standard, there's nothing offensive about her personality at all, and the weird hate in general).

[flere-imsaho]

Both Palin and Hillary Clinton get a disproportionate amount of raw anger, considering their actual influence.

For me, and many people I know, Palin quickly became the poster child for all the hypocritical right-wing "family values" bullshit we've been fed since 1994.

For fifteen years a right-wing PR machine has told me I'm what's wrong with America because I have liberal social values and then gone and done things that are worse or at least hypocritical to their stances (Ted Haggard -> gay sex, Henry Hyde -> adultery, Rush Limbaugh -> prescription drug abuse, Larry Craig -> gay sex, Sarah Palin -> such an awesome mother her teenage daughter gets pregnant out of wedlock).

So excuse me if, every time one of these self-righteous fucknuts takes a swan dive off of the hypocrisy plank, I point and laugh.

[RainMaker]

I think this is pretty silly. Does the fact that the Obama girls appeared on People magazine mean they are fair game?
I think it's tricky. Bristol Palin is on the cover of People and making the rounds on talk shows to promote abstinence among other things like her image. This isn't her just standing next to her Mom at a rally or sitting in a family photo. It's her exposing her life and her beliefs for some personal gain. I don't see how that's much different than what Lindsey Lohan or Britney Spears do.

When she first started doing interviews many months ago, she actually seemed genuine and like someone that could really do some good in lowering teen pregnancies around the country. She talked like a real teenager who had learned valuable lessons. I think her Mother and probably her Mother's handlers have tried to use her as something else now and changed her original beliefs for political benefit. It is sad that she didn't stick to the original line.

So while I think children and family should be 100% off limits, I also believe that if you are self-promoting yourself as an adult, you don't get to cover yourself up under that shield. She is no longer an innocent bystander who got caught up in attacks (she was last year). She is now an active figure and semi-activist.

The saddest thing about this is that everyone is missing one of the worst part about Letterman's comments. It wasn't that he attacked her child, it's just the ridiculous stereotype we have for young women who have sex. If you're a young female and have sex you're a whore. If you're a young male and have sex you're a ladies man. I think labeling every teen girl who has sex as a whore is an unhealthy societal image we are portraying.

[RainMaker]

Both Palin and Hillary Clinton get a disproportionate amount of raw anger, considering their actual influence. Sexism in this country is far more prevalent than racism, and it's more accepted. You can say "bitch", any other gender slur all you want. The racial slurs on the other and have an aura of universal wrongness. Which is good, I just wonder if we'll ever reach that point with sexism.
That's 100% right. Martha Stewart was a cunt for being a tough boss. Donald Trump gets hailed as a tycoon and savvy businessman for the same thing. George Clooney is a ladies man for sleeping around, Sienna Miller is just a slut.

It seems that many men in this country are afraid of powerful women. I do think a lot of the criticism on Palin was fair (in terms of context) but I know that if she was a young, good looking male governor of Alaska, she wouldn't have had half the pressure. The hatred toward powerful women in this country is rather sick. Whether it's a politician, attorney, or CEO.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I am sure he didn't know which Daughter was at the game

And right there is where he screwed up.

My political stances are pretty well known here I believe but I've got zero problem whatsoever with the joke as intended. Bristol made her own bed (no pun intended), she can lie in it as far as I'm concerned.

But the joke as delivered, since he hit the wrong target, did warrant some criticism and warranted the apology he eventually made. Heck, I'll even go so far as to be willing to believe he actually did regret misfiring for more than just the controversy. At some level, at his age, I can believe he knows that he ended up going somewhere he shouldn't have even if it was unintentional.

I'm content with the apology & can't get worked up enough about the error to want him fired over it but there have certainly been cases where people lost their jobs for less too.

[RainMaker]

There was a report saying that Olive Garden removed ads from the show and now one saying they didn't.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There was a report saying that Olive Garden removed ads from the show and now one saying they didn't.

The company says they didn't (http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/olive-garden-says-it-did-not-cancel-ads-on-letterman-show/)but noted "The Olive Garden media schedule is planned months in advance. The schedule for Late Show with David Letterman was completed earlier this month."

My wild-assed guess would be that they didn't continue the schedule beyond what was already on the books & that they will quietly walk around from the show until the controversy dies down. Someone (whoever Andy Barr at Politico is) took that & turned it into "they've cancelled", which I'd go further & speculate was misunderstanding a miffed CBS sales rep who had figured to get the buy extended only to find negotiations with the media buyer hitting a stone wall. The rep cries in anguish, Barr leaps to the wrong conclusion, and we end up with sounds like bad info floating in cyberspace.

Or at least that's how I could easily see the conflicting info happening, YMMV.

edit to add: OG's agency might have even gone so far as to refuse makegoods for missed spots and/or underdelivery (which there shouldn't have been any of with his recent uptick) in the show, which kind of technically could be considered a partial cancellation if they opted to keep the money in their pocket instead of moving it into another program. But now I'm really stretching the speculation thing to go that far in imagining a scenario.

[RainMaker]

Is it really a controversy though? I mean 15 people showed up at the protest. I know Fox News is treating this like 9/11, but I've gathered that most people don't give a fuck.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is it really a controversy though? I mean 15 people showed up at the protest. I know Fox News is treating this like 9/11, but I've gathered that most people don't give a fuck.

When you're positioned as a family restaurant (or whatever, but that's a reasonable description of OG I think) pretty much any controversy is controversy. Part of a good agency's job (IMO at least) is to not only provide guidance to their client but also to anticipate possible controversies ahead of time so that you have a strategy in place to deal with them. Now granted, I tend to be more hands-on & ground level than most buyers, but I literally knew the morning show content of every local market station (about three dozen markets give or take) that I placed ads on for a client, even took a look at the web presence of those in formats likely to cross the boundaries of taste. Prevented more than one nasty surprise over the years.

Unless you're intentionally shooting for edgy in your targeting, there's not many cases where an ad vehicle is worth the risk of losing even a small percentage of customers over, there's simply too many options to reach the same people without the risk.

If the average person realized how sensitive corporations can be with this sort of thing, we'd see 5x as many protests.

[SnowMan]

Best strip club in America, with VERY hot women, is in Alaska.Ahh yes, ABC. It's pretty good in the summer. But in the winter. Yikes.

[larrymcg421]

The stage "incident" is most commonly cited.

But it still escapes me how a political candidate's decisions make it OK to attack their children in tasteless ways. Bristol wasn't Palin's campaign manager, as far as I know. And the idea that Palin is somehow wrong to be upset that someone is attacking her children is just bizarre.

Except I never said she shouldn't be upset. I said it made sense and I understood that, whether she was partly responsible or not.

It's all about Palin though, you can see it in this thread. The weird hate comes first, then the scramble for the justification.

Both Palin and Hillary Clinton get a disproportionate amount of raw anger, considering their actual influence. Sexism in this country is far more prevalent than racism, and it's more accepted. You can say "bitch", any other gender slur all you want. The racial slurs on the other and have an aura of universal wrongness. Which is good, I just wonder if we'll ever reach that point with sexism.


What I do find interesting about your comment here is that Palin herself said female candidates shouldn't "whine" about sexism. Of course, that was before she was the VP nominee. It was when she was weighing in on Hillary Clinton's campaign.

I don't like Palin, but it has nothing to do with her sex. It has to do with her "gee government, get off my back" nonsense that is supposed to pass for a political position and her constant hypocrisy.

[kcchief19]

I told Mrs. kcchief19 after we watched Dave's second apology that we would now see Palin's true colors because there was no way she would apologize for implying that he was a sexual predator who couldn't be trusted around young girls. Her supporters share her hypocrisy; nice to see them talk about his "bastard" child and "whore" wife.

I wish Dave would stick to his guns though. It's similar to the OJ issue. Leno feasted on OJ Simpson jokes for his entire run at NBC. Dave didn't do OJ jokes for years. Howard Stern was on one night making OJ jokes and Dave wasn't laughing. When Stern asked him why he didn't do OJ jokes, Dave said, "I just don't find double murder all that funny."

I'll admit I'm sorry Dave ever did an OJ joke, but just the fact that he has enough humanity to feel remorse about doing sick jokes or feeling bad when a joke hurts someone proves that he's got more class than most of us.

[kcchief19]

My wild-assed guess would be that they didn't continue the schedule beyond what was already on the books & that they will quietly walk around from the show until the controversy dies down. Someone (whoever Andy Barr at Politico is) took that & turned it into "they've cancelled", which I'd go further & speculate was misunderstanding a miffed CBS sales rep who had figured to get the buy extended only to find negotiations with the media buyer hitting a stone wall. The rep cries in anguish, Barr leaps to the wrong conclusion, and we end up with sounds like bad info floating in cyberspace.
Olive Garden’s manager of media relations, who asked not to be quoted on the record, confirmed to POLITICO Thursday that the emails were sent by the restaurant chain, and also confirmed that the company would be pulling its remaining television spots on the program for the rest of the year when asked that question. My wild-assed guess is that the manager of media relations, who is not authorized to go on the record, confirmed the truth to Politico that they were indeed pulling their ads. Then the Director of Media Relations stepped in to change the story. Typical crisis PR for people who don't know what they are doing -- alienate both sides as much as you can.

Guess I'll see what happens. I just sent an e-mail on Olive Garden's Web site stating my family and I will no longer be frequenting Olive Garden or any Darden Restaurants until they issue an apology to Mr. Letterman and resume advertising on his program. I now know the rush that it feels like to be a holier-than-thou-there-but-for-the-grace-of-god-go-I wacko!

[RainMaker]

I think if advertisers pull spots and it gets steam in the media, it actually works out worse for Palin. Dave is pretty well liked and while making a statement that she felt his comments were tasteless is one thing, starting a lynch mob for the guys career is another. Potential for an epic backfire.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think if advertisers pull spots and it gets steam in the media, it actually works out worse for Palin. Dave is pretty well liked and while making a statement that she felt his comments were tasteless is one thing, starting a lynch mob for the guys career is another. Potential for an epic backfire.

Not likely to bother many people who were going to vote for her IMO, at least not enough to change their vote over it. Don't confuse Letterman's improved numbers vs Conan with some sort of huge sudden love for Dave, it's just that he's more palatable to a lot of people by default now.

Like I said in another Palin thread way back, she's got an odd appeal to a lot of people (no jokes needed there, thanks, I just don't know another way to phrase it) and it's almost eerie in a way. I called her out for a number of basically white trash characteristics back in '08 but at the same time, she's got this weird charisma or whatever that really connects to people (and no birds of a feather joke needed there either, actually the people I've run across IRL who liked her the most were waaaay over to the other extreme in their personalities/social characteristics/whathaveyou)

[Axxon]

But she's not being jabbed because of anything she said in that People Magazine article. If anything, she came off as a pretty good, if somewhat naive, kid who handled herself well. She did nothing other than what many teenage mothers have done before her. That doesn't mean she's a whore as Letterman's joke implied (and you're foolish if you think the intent was anything other than to demean her in that way).

Lindsey Lohan is getting lambasted due to her inappropriate lifestyle that she chose. That's a much different situation.

How can you type this with a straight face? Both Lindsey Lohan and Bristol Palin led inappropriate lifestyles they they chose. It's the exact same situation.

[RainMaker]

Not likely to bother many people who were going to vote for her IMO, at least not enough to change their vote over it. Don't confuse Letterman's improved numbers vs Conan with some sort of huge sudden love for Dave, it's just that he's more palatable to a lot of people by default now.

Like I said in another Palin thread way back, she's got an odd appeal to a lot of people (no jokes needed there, thanks, I just don't know another way to phrase it) and it's almost eerie in a way. I called her out for a number of basically white trash characteristics back in '08 but at the same time, she's got this weird charisma or whatever that really connects to people (and no birds of a feather joke needed there either, actually the people I've run across IRL who liked her the most were waaaay over to the other extreme in their personalities/social characteristics/whathaveyou)

I think it's fine if she is just going to cater toward hardcore conservatives. If she wants a career giving high priced speeches at conservative conferences, and so on then this is perfect. She'll keep that niche in the political game and be extremely succesful at it. She'll be able to write books and get TV appearances whenever she wants. Will make a ton of money too. Not a bad life at all.

But if she wants to be President, this won't help at all. It hurts her with moderates and independents, the two types of voters you need to be President (especially when your party is way behind in voter identification).

[Galaril]

these people have jobs?

Yup............................torching abortion clinics.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

These morons are the right-wing equivalent of Cindy Sheehan. Loud, annoying and getting far too much press. I hope Governor Palin is proud to see what a fine group of supporters she has.

By the way... I think the IQ out there was about 130. (Cumulative, not average.)

[stevew]

With Tripp, Track, and now Trig as family boys names, they should have gone with "Trick" instead of Bristol. It fits better.

;)

[larrymcg421]

How can you type this with a straight face? Both Lindsey Lohan and Bristol Palin led inappropriate lifestyles they they chose. It's the exact same situation.

I wouldn't say Bristol led an inappropriate lifestyle.

[Galaril]

I wouldn't say Bristol led an inappropriate lifestyle.

Yeah I know one of my aspirations for my daughter is for her to grow up and get knocked up by some dirt ball named LEVI at the age of 16:eek:

[Axxon]

I wouldn't say Bristol led an inappropriate lifestyle. So high school having unprotected sex and getting knocked up is appropriate now? I don't think her family would agree with you so by her ( abstinence advocate ) and her mother's own words, she was living an inappropriate lifestyle.

[stevew]

In the DVR era, who still watches Letterman or Leno or whomever else is on? I actually get home right about the middle of either one of those shows, but I'd much rather something I have taped.

[Radii]

So high school having unprotected sex and getting knocked up is appropriate now? I don't think her family would agree with you so by her ( abstinence advocate ) and her mother's own words, she was living an inappropriate lifestyle.


Oh come on, you're really stretching things out a long way to try to make a point here. Who the hell didn't do inappropriate things in high school? Typing Bristol Palin and Lindsay Lohan in the same sentence totally invalidates anything you're trying to say. implying... not even implying, I believe your exact words were "It's the exact same situation" actually. Stating that a high school kid who had sex and unfortunately got pregnant is anything at all like the lifestyle that Lindsay Lohan is leading is absurd.

[Axxon]

Oh come on, you're really stretching things out a long way to try to make a point here. Who the hell didn't do inappropriate things in high school? Typing Bristol Palin and Lindsay Lohan in the same sentence totally invalidates anything you're trying to say. implying... not even implying, I believe your exact words were "It's the exact same situation" actually. Stating that a high school kid who had sex and unfortunately got pregnant is anything at all like the lifestyle that Lindsay Lohan is leading is absurd.

The Palins themselves call it inappropriate. It's something now that Bristol in fact is advocating against. I think it's pretty clear that if one allows them to decide about their own actions you'd have to call it inappropriate.

To me, this isn't a judge the severity of a young woman's indiscretions though. I wrote "Both Lindsey Lohan and Bristol Palin led inappropriate lifestyles they they chose." Without trying to judge the levels of the inappropriate lifestyles which isn't my point, in the definition I was stating it is the same thing. A guy flying a Cessna and a guy flying a 747 are both pilots. It doesn't matter which one's plane is bigger.

The problem with playing whose was worse is that it's apologetic to the lesser offense when it may not deserve being apologetic against or vilifies something that does not deserve it. I don't think anyone has tried to claim that their actions are identical but clearly they both have led inappropriate lifestyles by their very own admissions. Same thing especially since Dave's joke is precisely lambasting due to her inappropriate lifestyle that she chose.

It's not a different situation. The situation is that they both were lambasted due to their ( by her own admission ) inappropriate lifestyle that they chose.

Now, if you want to argue that there's some level of inappropriateness that causes you to give up all rights to expect decency from the peanut gallery then feel free. It's not the argument I was addressing with my statement though.

[fantom1979]

I think we are all missing the point here. Someone started a fire Letterman protest and 15 people showed up. I am thinking that Palin's base might not be very strong (or maybe it is hibernating).

[Radii]

I'm so confused. I think I have to just quit the thread, which I never should have come into in the first place, and quite possibly the internet. This is way beyond me. I don't even know what's being argued right now, and I'm afraid anything I say is going to end up defending MBBF, which just puts me in a bad place. I lose!

[Axxon]

I'm so confused. I think I have to just quit the thread, which I never should have come into in the first place, and quite possibly the internet. This is way beyond me. I don't even know what's being argued right now, and I'm afraid anything I say is going to end up defending MBBF, which just puts me in a bad place. I lose!

I think you're just reading too much into my one criticism of one statement. My statements before that should give you an idea of where my feelings lie and it's on the side of the kids.

I wonder about Lindsey though. Obviously she's screwed up but the thing is, she's reminded of this constantly and in very hurtful ways. I'm not really sure that this is helpful for someone of her temperament. I'm not suggesting that she should be treated with kid gloves but probably all the cheap shots and abuse aren't helping the situation.

I'd say if we're going to cut the Palins some slack we should extend that to Lindsey too ( why not, she's not our responsibility so what's the point of commenting if it isn't helpful? ) which is really exactly what Palin was saying and damn, if you think you lose defending MBBF I'm actually defending Palin and that's far, far more skeevely to me so maybe I should back off too. :)

Still don't think Dave should be fired though.

[RainMaker]

I don't think she did anything inappropriate. I think she did something stupid and reckless. But she wasn't raised by parents that believe in sex education. I'd honestly bet that a lot of us had some close calls in our day.

[fantom1979]

I can honestly say that I have never been close to being pregnant.

[rowech]

I think we are all missing the point here. Someone started a fire Letterman protest and 15 people showed up. I am thinking that Palin's base might not be very strong (or maybe it is hibernating).

Probably just not strong in New York...something tells me her lifestyle wouldn't transplant well.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The saddest thing about this is that everyone is missing one of the worst part about Letterman's comments. It wasn't that he attacked her child, it's just the ridiculous stereotype we have for young women who have sex. If you're a young female and have sex you're a whore. If you're a young male and have sex you're a ladies man. I think labeling every teen girl who has sex as a whore is an unhealthy societal image we are portraying.

That point was made earlier in this thread by yours truly. It's just being ignored because it's a debate killer. The other more political talking points make for much more lively discussion.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

How can you type this with a straight face? Both Lindsey Lohan and Bristol Palin led inappropriate lifestyles they they chose. It's the exact same situation.

Oh dear. This post speaks for itself.

[larrymcg421]

So high school having unprotected sex and getting knocked up is appropriate now? I don't think her family would agree with you so by her ( abstinence advocate ) and her mother's own words, she was living an inappropriate lifestyle.

We don't know she had unprotected sex.

I think having sex in high school is a fairly normal lifestyle that many teenagers engage in, which is exactly why Palin's abstinence only policy is stupid and unrealistic.

And I'm not sure what their own thoughts on the appropriateness have to do with my statement that you responded to. My feeling on the matter wouldn't change no matter what the Palins thought.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

That point was made earlier in this thread by yours truly. It's just being ignored because it's a debate killer. The other more political talking points make for much more lively discussion.

No, it's because it's not really germane to the discussion. Unless we want to hold Letterman accountable for society's problems.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No, it's because it's not really germane to the discussion. Unless we want to hold Letterman accountable for society's problems.

A man who is in the spotlight as much as he is can affect society, both positively and negatively. We can't hold him accountable for society's ignorance, but we can certainly hold him accountable for furthering and fostering that ignorance.

[larrymcg421]

I'm not sure I see that, though. It was just as much a joke about A-Rod as it was about Bristol.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm not sure I see that, though. It was just as much a joke about A-Rod as it was about Bristol.

Let's not kid ourselves here. Letterman has openly stated his political leanings. Bristol was collateral damage to snipe at the Palin family. He could have told a similar joke to make fun of A-Rod without including Bristol if that was TRULY his intent (which it wasn't).

[larrymcg421]

Yeah, Letterman never told sex jokes about Bill Clinton or John Edwards or Elliot Spitzer.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yeah, Letterman never told sex jokes about Bill Clinton or John Edwards or Elliot Spitzer.

Which is irrelevant. Those people are like Palin and are open to that kind of thing. Kids should not be part of that. He was looking to demean someone he hates politically and he used the kid to take the shot. That's just wrong, plain and simple.

[larrymcg421]

I was responding to your sexism argument, but I guess it's silly for me to expect you to keep one consistent argument going.

Again, the political argument is stupid because he will make fun of anyone, no matter what their politics as I just established. And he will make jokes about family members (see: Clinton, Roger). If you want to say family members should be off limits, that's one thing, and we've been discussing that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I was responding to your sexism argument, but I guess it's silly for me to expect you to keep one consistent argument going.

Sorry, that was much earlier in the thread. Didn't realize you were discussing something further back since it wasn't quoted. It's impossible to know otherwise.

I don't have nearly the problem with the Palin 'flight attendant' joke that others do. The kid jokes I have a huge problem with.

[larrymcg421]

Sorry, that was much earlier in the thread. Didn't realize you were discussing something further back since it wasn't quoted. It's impossible to know otherwise.

I don't have nearly the problem with the Palin 'flight attendant' joke that others do. The kid jokes I have a huge problem with.

No, that's not what I'm talking about either. I was responding to the point you and Rainmaker were making about women and sex.

And I'd suggest you were doing very well in this thread until you started talking about Letterman as the evil liberal.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No, that's not what I'm talking about either. I was responding to the point you and Rainmaker were making about women and sex.

And I'd suggest you were doing very well in this thread until you started talking about Letterman as the evil liberal.

He's not an 'evil liberal' and I never termed him as such. He's a person who favors the liberal side of issues and made the mistake of incorporating his beliefs into a tasteless joke. That doesn't make him evil. It makes him guilty of very poor judgment and foresight. There's nothing wrong with holding a political belief. There is something wrong with attempting to put down the beliefs of others while using a kid to do that.

I stand by my statement concerning sexism. If you don't know it exists, you likely just haven't looked hard enough or haven't had a wife/daughter smack you in the head to make you aware it exists.

[larrymcg421]

He's not an 'evil liberal' and I never termed him as such. He's a person who favors the liberal side of issues and made the mistake of incorporating his beliefs into a tasteless joke. That doesn't make him evil. It makes him guilty of very poor judgment and foresight. There's nothing wrong with holding a political belief. There is something wrong with attempting to put down the beliefs of others while using a kid to do that.

But as I said, he has always attacked people no matter their politics. My problem is you're trying to make this a political thing, when it's really a taste thing.

I stand by my statement concerning sexism. If you don't know it exists, you likely just haven't looked hard enough or haven't had a wife/daughter smack you in the head to make you aware it exists.

Where the hell did this come from? I never said sexism doesn't exist. I said it didn't exist in that joke. Responses like this, which have no basis in anything I posted, are why you are so fucking annoying.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Where the hell did this come from? I never said sexism doesn't exist. I said it didn't exist in that joke.

I'll let your post stand on its own merit. I couldn't disagree more that sexism didn't exist in the joke.

[Fighter of Foo]

I've paid zero attention to this until this morning. Just need to know if I have this right...

Some people, who for the most part do not watch Letterman, have a problem with a joke he made about Sarah Palin's kid? And that's it?

[Pumpy Tudors]

I've paid zero attention to this until this morning. Just need to know if I have this right...

Some people, who for the most part do not watch Letterman, have a problem with a joke he made about Sarah Palin's kid? And that's it?
Yeah, that seems to be it. And now nobody's even making fun of those people anymore. We're not using the internet to its full capabilities.

[kcchief19]

Not likely to bother many people who were going to vote for her IMO, at least not enough to change their vote over it. Don't confuse Letterman's improved numbers vs Conan with some sort of huge sudden love for Dave, it's just that he's more palatable to a lot of people by default now.
True to a certain degree. The funny thing is that NBC is spinning Conan's lower total viewer numbers than Leno had being due to the slower summer TV season, which ignores the fact that at the same time Letterman has remained consistent if not built his audience slightly at a time when you would expect his numbers to seasonally dip too.
Like I said in another Palin thread way back, she's got an odd appeal to a lot of people (no jokes needed there, thanks, I just don't know another way to phrase it) and it's almost eerie in a way. I called her out for a number of basically white trash characteristics back in '08 but at the same time, she's got this weird charisma or whatever that really connects to people (and no birds of a feather joke needed there either, actually the people I've run across IRL who liked her the most were waaaay over to the other extreme in their personalities/social characteristics/whathaveyou)
I don't think it's weird or odd at all. She's a fairly attractive woman and charismatic woman and plays to that strength. There's a disturbing lack of women in the governorships and national politics so an attractive charismatic woman stands out from the crowd. Physical attraction works on both sexes; there's a reason why the homecoming queen is the hottest, most popular girl in school.

I'm not sure I can agree with that last part, at least not around my part of the world. Her fan base here appears to be extremely conservative and predominately male. Conservative women like here too, but men really dig her, and I don't think that's odd or weird at all.

[Axxon]

We don't know she had unprotected sex.

I think having sex in high school is a fairly normal lifestyle that many teenagers engage in, which is exactly why Palin's abstinence only policy is stupid and unrealistic.

And I'm not sure what their own thoughts on the appropriateness have to do with my statement that you responded to. My feeling on the matter wouldn't change no matter what the Palins thought.

So an activity cannot be inappropriate as long as many people do it? That's an interesting thought.

Even better, an activity can't be inappropriate even if you think it as as long as someone else doesn't think it is.

I'm not sure I'm ready for that much moral relativism but I know lots of people are.

[kcchief19]

My personal confession on this:

I'm a hypocrite. I've been a Letterman fan for 30 years (since before Late Night) and that's pretty much all my life. There is nothing Dave can say that will make me think less of him.

I think I feel about the joke the same way Dave does; it seemed funny at the time but it was a coarse joke about involving an 18-year-old girl. I'm very torn on my sympathies about Bristol Palin. I really want to feel sorry for her. Her parents apparently believe in "abstinence only" and chose a path for her that I believe (based on evidence) leads to too many teenage pregnancies. I can't imagine Bristol Palin wanted to have a baby but she had no freedom of choice based on who her mother was. I don't know if Bristol Palin wanted to stay home in Alaska or not, but she was paraded across the country as a political prop by her parents and the GOP. I feel sorry for Bristol Palin. I think her parents are asshats though.

To me, the joke was less about Bristol Palin than it was a joke about Alex Rodriguez and Sarah Palin. I think a lot of the Bristol Palin jokes are shots at her mother for not teaching her daughter how to make better choices. I still think there is a difference between making a joke about someone based on their actions or choices than based on things out of their control. I think there's a huge difference between a joke about a knocked-up Bristol Palin and comparing Chelsea Clinton to a dog.

I'm glad Dave apologized and I'm glad he probably won't be doing any more Bristol Palin jokes any more becuase it's the right thing to do. But I still think Sarah Palin owes Dave an apology for the things she and her husband said about him, and I don't think they have the character to do it.

[RainMaker]

Sorry, that was much earlier in the thread. Didn't realize you were discussing something further back since it wasn't quoted. It's impossible to know otherwise.

I don't have nearly the problem with the Palin 'flight attendant' joke that others do. The kid jokes I have a huge problem with.

When do "kids" become fair game? Caroline Kennedy seemed to get a lot of criticism and negative comments when she was interested in the Senate seat. Are you saying that if you're a kid of someone in politics, you are never allowed to have your views and lifestyle scrutinized?

[CamEdwards]

When do "kids" become fair game? Caroline Kennedy seemed to get a lot of criticism and negative comments when she was interested in the Senate seat. Are you saying that if you're a kid of someone in politics, you are never allowed to have your views and lifestyle scrutinized?

How about the standard (as if this really needs debating) is if you're a kid who's not willingly putting yourself out there politically, you get left alone. That would include the Obama children, the Palin kids, even Rick Santorum's children, but would leave Caroline Kennedy, Meghan McCain, etc. open for scrutiny.

[RainMaker]

How about the standard (as if this really needs debating) is if you're a kid who's not willingly putting yourself out there politically, you get left alone. That would include the Obama children, the Palin kids, even Rick Santorum's children, but would leave Caroline Kennedy, Meghan McCain, etc. open for scrutiny.

But Bristol did a full spread for People. Has given numerous interviews and profiles for magazines. She's also made the rounds on all the major talk shows. When does she become an innocent bystander to the situation to someone who is going out in public and trying to make a name for herself?

[CamEdwards]

But Bristol did a full spread for People. Has given numerous interviews and profiles for magazines. She's also made the rounds on all the major talk shows. When does she become an innocent bystander to the situation to someone who is going out in public and trying to make a name for herself?

No, you're right. I'd say Bristol has put herself out there. The other kids haven't, I would say.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Her fan base here appears to be extremely conservative and predominately male. Conservative women like here too, but men really dig her, and I don't think that's odd or weird at all.

Interesting.

I don't think I know (offline) a conservative male who particular like her but I also can't think offhand of a conservative female that I know who doesn't absolutely adore her (even when she has an obvious screwup). She's more teflon with the women I know than Reagan was even in his heyday.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'd say Bristol has put herself out there.

I'd say that phrasing is one hell of a straight line :D

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

No, you're right. I'd say Bristol has put herself out there. The other kids haven't, I would say.

This was my point all along, which I torturedly failed to get out.

[RendeR]

A man who is in the spotlight as much as he is can affect society, both positively and negatively. We can't hold him accountable for society's ignorance, but we can certainly hold him accountable for furthering and fostering that ignorance.



So your solution to the ignorance of the masses is to tell a comedian he's not funny.

You carry on trooper!

[Greyroofoo]

Sometimes I get the feeling that people come here to debate Mizzou B-ball fan rather than argue about the issues of the day.

[RendeR]

Sometimes I get the feeling that people come here to debate Mizzou B-ball fan rather than argue about the issues of the day.


Since he's really not capable of forming a valid argument everything tends to default to the former. *shrugs*

The real issue with this topic is that its NOT an issue of the day, its an issue of the tabloids. Its utter stupidity placed high in importance because the moronic masses that make up television viewership in this country put more stock in what a geriatric-has-been of a comedian cracks jokes about.

This has been and always will be a non issue, but a large portion of this country lives its life from the cushions of their couches and have nothing better to do with their time than get bent out of shape over this rather than something that actually matters.

[ISiddiqui]

Little late to the party (was in St. Louis when this all went down), but WOW, those people in the video are touched in the head.

[JeeberD]

Last night a guest who had finished his dinner and was about to leave pulled me aside and told me that the reason he chose OG for dinner was specifically to support us for pulling our advertising from Letterman.

*shrug*

[DaddyTorgo]

But Bristol did a full spread for People. Has given numerous interviews and profiles for magazines. She's also made the rounds on all the major talk shows. When does she become an innocent bystander to the situation to someone who is going out in public and trying to make a name for herself?

Just wait till Bristol REALLY does a full spread and puts herself out there. :lol:

[sterlingice]

Since he's really not capable of forming a valid argument everything tends to default to the former. *shrugs*

The real issue with this topic is that its NOT an issue of the day, its an issue of the tabloids. Its utter stupidity placed high in importance because the moronic masses that make up television viewership in this country put more stock in what a geriatric-has-been of a comedian cracks jokes about.

This has been and always will be a non issue, but a large portion of this country lives its life from the cushions of their couches and have nothing better to do with their time than get bent out of shape over this rather than something that actually matters.

Yeah, and that's what's so damning. Sure, we're all getting a chuckle or having a heated debate about it. But at the end of the hour, it's just a message board and we're blue skying ideas and having issue debates at most about it. Some people are genuinely making their decisions based on stuff like this. Hell, JIMGA makes his living off of it.

Last night a guest who had finished his dinner and was about to leave pulled me aside and told me that the reason he chose OG for dinner was specifically to support us for pulling our advertising from Letterman.

*shrug*

SI

[JeeberD]

And another guy stopped me today to tell me basically the same thing. I guess it's having some effect, though I wonder how much business we've lost from the other side?