NFL WEEK 4!

[stevew]

Crabtree-still not signed
Browns-Worst team in football?

Anything else?

[RomaGoth]

Green Bay/Minnesota on MNF

Yes, the Browns are the worst team in the NFL, but Tampa Bay, St. Louis, KC, Carolina, and Miami aren't far behind. The Lions aren't much better either.

If the Steelers lose this game (which they could), does that mean they can be discounted from playoff talk at this point at 1-3?

[albionmoonlight]

Baltimore/NE--Is Balt a Super Bowl team? A win here, and I say yes. On the other side, a solid win here by NE would quelch whatever doubts the Jets game raised.

Jets/Saints--If the Saints win, they will go into their bye 4-0 having faced two rookies, Kevin Kolb and Trent Edwards at QB. Which is to say we still won't really know about their defense until week 6 against the Giants. The Jets could go from the "our fans always overhype us" buzz that they have now to "these guys might actually be really good" buzz if they win.

GB/Minn--Even without Favre, this game interests me as a battle between two teams that I still don't totally trust. If one of them takes a buttkicking, I wonder if it will be a sign of things to come.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I can't imagine a team worse than the Chiefs right now. They've got a few good pieces, but it's just terrible overall.

[Bearcat729]

I'm not sure he is the worst, but I'm hoping the Browns fire him after the season ends. This team makes me sad to be a Browns fan.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/09/29/mangini/index.html

Mangini: Worst coaching hire ever?

I haven't come up with a new word for a while, so I want to throw one out there .. the word is "fanbole" (pronounced FAN-buh-lee).

The definition is simply: A sweeping, exaggerated and often ludicrous sports statement that a fan makes when under the influence of an emotional sports event (and perhaps various substances).

If you see a shortstop make a diving stop and throw out a runner, you might say: "That's the greatest play I have ever seen." That would be a fanbole. It might be the greatest play you ever saw, but it probably isn't. In that moment, it feels that way.

If you see the Kansas City Chiefs give up against the Philadelphia Eagles like they did on Sunday, you might say: "This is the worst football team in the history of the NFL." That too would be a fanbole. The Chiefs are terrible, but they are probably not the worst team in NFL history. Probably not.

You call a player the worst ever, a coach a genius, a general manager an idiot -- these are probably fanboles.

But one of the fun things about a fanbole is that sometimes, after uttering one (or tweeting one), you will find that after you think about it for a while -- hey, you know what? -- you ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT.

I recently tweeted this:

"Another one of those fan maybe-overstatement-maybe-not thoughts: Eric Mangini was the worst NFL head coach hire in 25 years."

Now, I'll admit -- that's pure fanbole. I cannot stand what Eric Mangini has done to the Browns, the team of my childhood. I cannot stand the lack of respect he has shown for the team's history, the Mickey Mouse game he plays with quarterbacks, the amazing knack he has for getting his players to not play hard for him or the stupid fines he hands out like he's Principal Vernon from "The Breakfast Club." Don't mess with the bull, young man, you'll get the horns.

But here's the thing: Based on the Twitter responses I've seen ... I'm actually starting to believe that I'm right. I'm actually starting to believe that Mangini really was the worst head coach hire in 25 years. The responses have mostly been to list other coaches who were worse hires than Mangini. But you know what? I don't think any of those hires WERE worse than Mangini. Remember:

1. Mangini had just been fired in New York, where he had done a terrible job. He had a losing record. His team had collapsed down the stretch, he had alienated his players, he was a pain in the neck to deal with. Point is: He'd already PROVEN how much damage he could do as a coach.

2. He came right out of the school of Bill Belichick ... and that didn't work THE FIRST TIME in Cleveland. It seems to me that Cleveland is a working-class town and Browns fans want a working-class coach -- not some pompous know-it-all who doesn't feel like he should have to explain to the commoners what he's doing.

3. What had he ever done to convince anyone he could be a head coach in the first place? Why, because he was a defensive coordinator for the Patriots under Belichick for one season? The Browns had JUST HIRED Romeo Crennel, who was ALSO defensive coordinator under Belichick. Attention Cleveland Browns owners, here's a good hint: BILL BELICHICK IS HIS OWN DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.

4. Basically the first thing Mangini did -- first thing -- was have them tear down a mural of great Cleveland Browns players on the wall in the Browns offices. Now, there are differing opinions about what really happened, whose fault it really was, does it all matter, etc. You know what? The Cleveland Browns have never been to a Super Bowl. Never. Not one. But Browns fans still have a whole lot of pride. Browns fans grow up on a glorious history. If you allow something stupid like that to happen on your watch ... just a horrendous hire.

Now, here is a partial list of hires Twitter people think were worse than Mangini ... and why I disagree*:

*And remember: I'm talking about WORST HIRES, not necessarily WORST COACHES. Sometimes what seems like a good hire can turn disastrous. And sometimes what seems like a bad hire turns out well. We're talking specifically about the decision to hire Mangini here.

• Art Shell (Oakland): Admittedly this was a dreadful hire ... but there's no way it comes close to Mangini. Shell is a Raiders legend, a Hall of Famer player, who was also the first African American coach in the NFL (well, second, going back to Fritz Pollard in the 1920s). He actually coached the Raiders to three playoff appearances in five years in his first stint. True, when the Raiders hired him the second time he clearly had lost his coaching marbles ... but there's no way that's as bad a hire as Mangini.

• Jim Zorn (Washington): Well ... maybe. The whole process of hiring Zorn was nutty, and it's pretty clear he was overmatched. But Jim Zorn was a fine and fun quarterback, so at least he had that going for him. Plus he had not just been fired as a head coach.

• Bobby Petrino (Atlanta): This turned out to be a disastrous hire ... but I don't think it was considered bad at the time. Petrino was one of the hottest names in college football.

• Raheem Morris (Tampa Bay): Whew, yeah, that's a bad hire. But, again, at least he was hired from within and he had not just been canned.

• Steve Spurrier (Washington): No way. Not even close. Spurrier turned out to be a horrible NFL coach, but the hire itself was exciting and had every chance to work. NFL teams were falling over each other to hire Spurrier as a head coach. This isn't even in the same ballpark as the Mangini hire.

• Tom Cable (Oakland): The Raiders should have their own category when it comes to terrible NFL coach hires. But even this hire to me is not as insulting and infuriating as the Mangini hire. I mean, everyone in New York -- players, fans, media members, everyone -- DESPISED Mangini. I mean, I'm still wondering who in New York Mangini could have put down as a reference.

• Rich Kotite (New York Jets): Well, this hire has many of the same problems as the Mangini hire -- Kotite had just been canned, nobody liked him, and so on. But at least Kotite was a New Yorker who had played in the NFL and he had a winning record as a coach. This WAS bad ... I think Mangini was worse.

• Scott Linehan (St. Louis): Bad hire, of course, but he was a longtime assistant coach who had success in various other places. He'd coached in high school, in college, he was offensive coordinator for the Vikings and Dolphins. I don't think the hire itself compares to Mangini, though I certainly feel the Rams fans pain of having to endure two and a half seasons with him as coach.

• Marty Mornhinweg (Detroit): He was considered a bright young coordinator when the Lions hired him -- and he's offensive coordinator for the Eagles now. Plus, he lasted two years with the Lions (long enough to elect to kick off in overtime). I really don't think Mangini will last the season.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/09/29/mangini/index.html#ixzz0Scqg0PKR
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription

[JAG]

I think Barry Switzer wins hands down. It's one thing to hire an unknown (or known sucky) coach to lead a rebuilding team, it's another thing to hire a coach who had been out of work for 5 years and had never coached in the pros to lead a team coming off back-to-back Super Bowl championships.

Although if the firing (or whatever) of Jimmy Johnson had happened a few months earlier, I wonder if it might have been Norv Turner coaching the team...

[molson]

I think it's an exceptionally rare circumstance where a fan should root against his team (I hate it when fans do this just because they want a higher draft pick), but this year's Cleveland Browns team is one of those circumstances.

They need a 1-15 season or whatever it takes to get Mangini out the door.

[jbergey22]

Les Steckel from way back was just a horrible hire. He once tried to motivate a professional football team sticking peanut butter in a diaper and telling the players he wanted this game so bad he will eat shit as he stuck his face in the diaper filled with peanut butter. It didnt go over so well.

[DeToxRox]

Uh no Rod Marinelli? Not only was he never even a defensive coordinator, but the way he was hired was a joke, including giving him an OC he didn't even want. It was not all on Marinelli, but the hiring and everything that went with it was just terrible.

[Big Fo]

Les Steckel from way back was just a horrible hire. He once tried to motivate a professional football team sticking peanut butter in a diaper and telling the players he wanted this game so bad he will eat shit as he stuck his face in the diaper filled with peanut butter. It didnt go over so well.

hahaha

And I thought Marty Morningwig peeling out on his chopper was bad.

[Radii]

Baltimore/NE--

Jets/Saints--

GB/Minn--


These are the three games I'm most interested in this week for sure. Add in San Diego/Pittsburgh and Dallas/Denver too for me.

[stevew]

Has an "open QB competition" ever turned out well?

[Lathum]

I wonder if Flozell Adams will get fined again?

[DeToxRox]

I think Barry Switzer wins hands down. It's one thing to hire an unknown (or known sucky) coach to lead a rebuilding team, it's another thing to hire a coach who had been out of work for 5 years and had never coached in the pros to lead a team coming off back-to-back Super Bowl championships.

Although if the firing (or whatever) of Jimmy Johnson had happened a few months earlier, I wonder if it might have been Norv Turner coaching the team...

Reading Boys Will Be Boys (An Amazing read about the rise and fall of the Cowboys) it was all but certain, even during the season, that Switzer was the guy. He was Jones boy and he was going to be the coach come hell or high water. Norv was associated with Johnson which means he had no chance.

[JeeberD]

I'm going to be in Denver for a wedding this week, so I'll be sticking around long enough to go to the Cowboys-Broncos game. I haven't been to an NFL game in probably four years, so this should be fun... :)

[fantom1979]

Has an "open QB competition" ever turned out well?

I was just talking about this at work. They don't ever seem to work very well. The Jets sorta of had an open competition this year and that has worked pretty well, San Fran is doing ok as well, and the Lions have already won more games then I thought they would. Tampa and Cleveland are just horrible.

One interesting thing that my friend brought up (and may not be completely factual with some investigation), is how well some teams do after a switch to the back up quarterback (either by injury or brought in to replace the starting qb). Just some names that come to mind over the last 15 or 20 years: Frank Reich, Scott Mitchell, Kurt Warner, Joe Flacco, Derek Anderson, Kerry Collins, Gus Frerotte, Tom Brady, Tommy Maddox, Jeff Garcia,

[Bad-example]

Rams at 49ers. Trap game?

[B & B]

If you live in south georgia, se alabama or north florida you are completely fucked this Sunday.

As you may know, the Jags games are blacked out locally and thats what your scheduled to see. Therefore you get nothing.

Oh, unless you want to turn on the FoX broadcast of the only 1pm game on cable. TAMPA BAY vs WASHINGTON.

[JPhillips]

I can't believe Pos doesn't even mention Dave Shula.

[TroyF]

I think Barry Switzer wins hands down. It's one thing to hire an unknown (or known sucky) coach to lead a rebuilding team, it's another thing to hire a coach who had been out of work for 5 years and had never coached in the pros to lead a team coming off back-to-back Super Bowl championships.

Although if the firing (or whatever) of Jimmy Johnson had happened a few months earlier, I wonder if it might have been Norv Turner coaching the team...

How can that be the worst hiring ever? Switzer went to an NFC championship game his first year and won a Super Bowl title in his second. He finished 10-6 in his third year and went to the divisional round.

The structure around the team was crumbling, with Jerry at the top. By the time the 10-6 year rolled around, Emmitt wasn't a 1500+ yard back who averaged 4.5 to 5.5 yards a carry. He went from his prime to very good. Alvin Harper and the ally oop TD? Gone to prove and fail at being a #1 WR. Novacek? Retired. Michael Irvin? '95 was his last huge year. Like Emmitt, he had very good years after, but never at the same level. Ditto for Daryl Johnston. Aikman never threw for over 60% again after '96. 80% of the line was done, at least with the Cowboys by '96.

Defensively, guys like Jim Jeffcoat, Russell Maryland, Ken Norton, and Charles Haley were history.

I don't want to make this seem like the move was a great one. But we can't assume Jimmy would have simply reloaded with the dawn of the salary cap era approaching. He had 4 years in Miami and never did better than 10-6 in that era.

We also can't assume Jimmy wouldn't have taken off at some point in this process either.

Barry was a horrible, horrible hire. But at the end of the day, the Cowboys were going to face the same issues with him Gailey or Jimmy. A cap that wouldn't allow them to keep their core, their core aging, a bunch of low draft picks because they were winning so much. Jimmy may have won an extra title (even that is debateable in my opinion), but I don't think you can make a case that Switzer was the worst hire ever. Just my opinion.

[RomaGoth]

...and the Lions have already won more games then I thought they would.

You thought the Lions would go winless again?

[TroyF]

As far as week 4 games that interest me:

Cowboys/Broncos - Just how good is the Denver D and the Denver team? We find out this week.

Baltimore/NE - What a game this should be.

Jets/NO - Another terrific game. The Jets D against Brees. Looking forward to this one.

SD/Pitt - Neither AFC favorite has impressed me that much. A Pittsburgh win puts both of them at 2-2. A Chargers win means that even with an uneven start they are 3-1 and headed for a first round bye. (look at the division)

And of course. . . GB/Minn - Not as fun as the Min at GB will be later this year. But it should be a fun game to watch.

[RomaGoth]

As far as week 4 games that interest me:

Cowboys/Broncos - Just how good is the Denver D and the Denver team? We find out this week.

Baltimore/NE - What a game this should be.

Jets/NO - Another terrific game. The Jets D against Brees. Looking forward to this one.

SD/Pitt - Neither AFC favorite has impressed me that much. A Pittsburgh win puts both of them at 2-2. A Chargers win means that even with an uneven start they are 3-1 and headed for a first round bye. (look at the division)

And of course. . . GB/Minn - Not as fun as the Min at GB will be later this year. But it should be a fun game to watch.

Good choices. I am hoping the Broncos defense is for real, I picked them up for my fantasy team.

[Dutch]

• Raheem Morris (Tampa Bay): Whew, yeah, that's a bad hire. But, again, at least he was hired from within and he had not just been canned.

I wouldn't say it was a bad hire. Maybe a bit premature though...

But the direction of the Buccaneers this off-season was clear. The head coach was fired, the GM was fired, the DC "retired", a large majority of the veterans on the team were let go, no new FA's of note were hired, a 1st round rookie QB was selected.

Read: This team is in full rebuilding mode.

Now, I wasn't completely aware of that until we went 0-3, but in hindsight...duh!

While the FOFC community loves nothing better than going "empty cupboard", I'm not sure a lot of veteran HC's are very interested in that. It's really the perfect game for younger coaches. And I think that plays a bit into it. I think the owners are really trying to see if they can get another Tony Dungy styled turnaround with the young Raheem Morris.

Now, I will say that when Tony Dungy first took over, there were certain things that he said that made you really think he had his shit together, and I haven't totally got that vibe from Morris, but he doesn't seem like a blathering buffoon that doesn't know his head from his ass, either.

So was this a bad hire? I don't think so.

[RomaGoth]

Hard to convince me that Marty Mornhinweg wasn't the worst hire outside of Mangini. That guy was awful from the beginning. Of course, so was his GM.

[JediKooter]

Jamarcus Russell: In the immortal words of Tommy Lasorda - "He couldn't hit water if he fell out of fucking boat!"


Raiders, Chiefs, Lions, Browns, Redskins and the Bucs are just really awful awful teams. 3-15 is their combined win/loss record this season. I discounted a couple of winless teams, becauase they are just not as happless as these 6 teams in my opinion.

Raiders - Oh boy, where to start? You know it's bad when the Raiders organization is lashing out at the press for not being nice to them. Raider Nation, your wahmbulance is on its way. Speaking of Raider Nation...Umm I thought you guys were the most die hard, Darth Vader masked, spiked shoulder pad, painted faced fans in the world? Always accusing other fans of being fairweather. Tell me why was the Raider game blacked out in Raider Nation Central last weekend and from the highlights, it looked more like a Braves playoff game than "Hug a Thug" night at the Coliseum?

What would happen to the time space continuum if the Raiders and Lions had to play each other? Parking shouldn't be a problem though.


My surprises so far:

Steelers, Titans and the Jets.

Steelers defense looks like it's starting show its age.
Maybe the loss of Haynsworth to the Redskins has affected the Titans more than expected. He hasn't helped the Redskins though.
Jets - Proof that a defensive minded coach will win you some games.

[RomaGoth]

Jamarcus Russell: In the immortal words of Tommy Lasorda - "He couldn't hit water if he fell out of fucking boat!"


Raiders, Chiefs, Lions, Browns, Redskins and the Bucs are just really awful awful teams. 3-15 is their combined win/loss record this season. I discounted a couple of winless teams, becauase they are just not as happless as these 6 teams in my opinion.

Raiders - Oh boy, where to start? You know it's bad when the Raiders organization is lashing out at the press for not being nice to them. Raider Nation, your wahmbulance is on its way. Speaking of Raider Nation...Umm I thought you guys were the most die hard, Darth Vader masked, spiked shoulder pad, painted faced fans in the world? Always accusing other fans of being fairweather. Tell me why was the Raider game blacked out in Raider Nation Central last weekend and from the highlights, it looked more like a Braves playoff game than "Hug a Thug" night at the Coliseum?

What would happen to the time space continuum if the Raiders and Lions had to play each other? Parking shouldn't be a problem though.


My surprises so far:

Steelers, Titans and the Jets.

Steelers defense looks like it's starting show its age.
Maybe the loss of Haynsworth to the Redskins has affected the Titans more than expected. He hasn't helped the Redskins though.
Jets - Proof that a defensive minded coach will win you some games.

At first I thought this was a call to Jim Rome....

[JAG]

How can that be the worst hiring ever? Switzer went to an NFC championship game his first year and won a Super Bowl title in his second. He finished 10-6 in his third year and went to the divisional round.

The structure around the team was crumbling, with Jerry at the top. By the time the 10-6 year rolled around, Emmitt wasn't a 1500+ yard back who averaged 4.5 to 5.5 yards a carry. He went from his prime to very good. Alvin Harper and the ally oop TD? Gone to prove and fail at being a #1 WR. Novacek? Retired. Michael Irvin? '95 was his last huge year. Like Emmitt, he had very good years after, but never at the same level. Ditto for Daryl Johnston. Aikman never threw for over 60% again after '96. 80% of the line was done, at least with the Cowboys by '96.

Defensively, guys like Jim Jeffcoat, Russell Maryland, Ken Norton, and Charles Haley were history.

I don't want to make this seem like the move was a great one. But we can't assume Jimmy would have simply reloaded with the dawn of the salary cap era approaching. He had 4 years in Miami and never did better than 10-6 in that era.

We also can't assume Jimmy wouldn't have taken off at some point in this process either.

Barry was a horrible, horrible hire. But at the end of the day, the Cowboys were going to face the same issues with him Gailey or Jimmy. A cap that wouldn't allow them to keep their core, their core aging, a bunch of low draft picks because they were winning so much. Jimmy may have won an extra title (even that is debateable in my opinion), but I don't think you can make a case that Switzer was the worst hire ever. Just my opinion.

You make some good points. When I called Switzer the 'worst ever', it's a matter of semantics. In my opinion (and what do I know) there's almost no one who would have turned down the head coaching position at that time and Jerry Jones gave it to someone that no other team would have hired. That to me is the greatest disparity for a coach ever hired in terms of 'value of position available' and 'ability of person hired to fill position'. There's no lack of coaches who proved they have no ability to coach, but a lot of those guys are also hired into bad situations where they don't have much chance to have a positive impact even if they're the second coming of Lombardi.

[RomaGoth]

You make some good points. When I called Switzer the 'worst ever', it's a matter of semantics. In my opinion (and what do I know) there's almost no one who would have turned down the head coaching position at that time and Jerry Jones gave it to someone that no other team would have hired. That to me is the greatest disparity for a coach ever hired in terms of 'value of position available' and 'ability of person hired to fill position'. There's no lack of coaches who proved they have no ability to coach, but a lot of those guys are also hired into bad situations where they don't have much chance to have a positive impact even if they're the second coming of Lombardi.

Don't you think that any coach hired under Jerry Jones is really just a "yes" man though?

[JediKooter]

At first I thought this was a call to Jim Rome....

Can't stand Jim Rome, but, I can see what you're talking about.

[fantom1979]

At first I thought this was a call to Jim Rome....

Rack'em

[RomaGoth]

Can't stand Jim Rome, but, I can see what you're talking about.

I don't really mind him some of the time, but his "clones" are morons. Who calls a radio show and talks shit during the day? Don't they have jobs?

Rack'em

Manual buzzer.

[TroyF]

Jamarcus Russell: In the immortal words of Tommy Lasorda - "He couldn't hit water if he fell out of fucking boat!"


Raiders, Chiefs, Lions, Browns, Redskins and the Bucs are just really awful awful teams. 3-15 is their combined win/loss record this season. I discounted a couple of winless teams, becauase they are just not as happless as these 6 teams in my opinion.

Raiders - Oh boy, where to start? You know it's bad when the Raiders organization is lashing out at the press for not being nice to them. Raider Nation, your wahmbulance is on its way. Speaking of Raider Nation...Umm I thought you guys were the most die hard, Darth Vader masked, spiked shoulder pad, painted faced fans in the world? Always accusing other fans of being fairweather. Tell me why was the Raider game blacked out in Raider Nation Central last weekend and from the highlights, it looked more like a Braves playoff game than "Hug a Thug" night at the Coliseum?

What would happen to the time space continuum if the Raiders and Lions had to play each other? Parking shouldn't be a problem though.


My surprises so far:

Steelers, Titans and the Jets.

Steelers defense looks like it's starting show its age.
Maybe the loss of Haynsworth to the Redskins has affected the Titans more than expected. He hasn't helped the Redskins though.
Jets - Proof that a defensive minded coach will win you some games.

1) It's easy to say the Steelers defense is showing it's age with Troy Polamalu injured. Despite that they are 8th in the NFL in points and yards allowed, better in both catagories than a healthy Ravens team who has already played the Cheifs and Browns. I think their bigger problem is offensive line.

2) The Titans are struggling. Not having Haynseworth is a part of that problem.

3) It's proof a good coach and an already solid talent base will win you some games. Dick Jauron is a defensive coach. Raheem Morris is a defensive coach. Put Ryan on either of o their teams and I'd bet money they'd still struggle.

[MikeVic]

Go Steelers!

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj276/mlarson1971/steelerschargers.jpg

[RomaGoth]

1) It's easy to say the Steelers defense is showing it's age with Troy Polamalu injured. Despite that they are 8th in the NFL in points and yards allowed, better in both catagories than a healthy Ravens team who has already played the Cheifs and Browns. I think their bigger problem is offensive line.

2) The Titans are struggling. Not having Haynseworth is a part of that problem.

3) It's proof a good coach and an already solid talent base will win you some games. Dick Jauron is a defensive coach. Raheem Morris is a defensive coach. Put Ryan on either of o their teams and I'd bet money they'd still struggle.

The Steelers problem IS their offensive line. With or without Polamalu, they could have beaten both Cinci and Chicago with a running game.

[DataKing]

It's a shame that flex scheduling doesn't kick in until later in the year, because I would love to see the Pats/Ravens game. That one just smells like a Game Of the Week.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This week we get:

NYJ/NO
DET/CHI
DAL/DEN

Not bad. If the NE/Baltimore game is the game of the week, NYJ/NO has to be a close second. Personally, I am sick of watching the Cowboys, but I am interested in seeing how the Broncos match up against them.

[larrymcg421]

The one good thing about Pennington being out for the season is that he can now win Comeback Player of the Year for the third time.

[JediKooter]

I don't really mind him some of the time, but his "clones" are morons. Who calls a radio show and talks shit during the day? Don't they have jobs?



Manual buzzer.

Yes, I think the 'clones' are morons. "Hey, I don't have my own radio show, so let me just copy the guy who does and call in."

There's podcasts now, do your own show.

Maybe they are hired by Rome to call in?



1) It's easy to say the Steelers defense is showing it's age with Troy Polamalu injured. Despite that they are 8th in the NFL in points and yards allowed, better in both catagories than a healthy Ravens team who has already played the Cheifs and Browns. I think their bigger problem is offensive line.

2) The Titans are struggling. Not having Haynseworth is a part of that problem.

3) It's proof a good coach and an already solid talent base will win you some games. Dick Jauron is a defensive coach. Raheem Morris is a defensive coach. Put Ryan on either of o their teams and I'd bet money they'd still struggle.

Even when Polamalu was in, something just didn't seem right about the Steelers defense. As much as I dislike the Steelers, I am extremely jealous of the defense they have put together and wish the Chargers would use them as a model. Without TP, I'd still take the Steelers defense any day. They just seem a bit slow right now.

Titans are definitely struggling and I'm amazed that they are sitting at 0-3 even with Haynesworth gone.

My comment about having a defensive minded coach was a poke at Norv "The Most Uninspiring Play Calling in the Universe" Turner. The dude is a yellow bellied chicken shit in the Red Zone and I think if he had more of a defensive mind set and a killer instinct to the game, he wouldn't turn into the Little Engine that Can't during crucial moments of the game. Granted, the run blocking of the Chargers is down right horrid and I actually like seeing Rivers air it out like the good 'ol Air Coryell days, but, you have to score in the Red Zone and his play calls are not getting it done.

[Izulde]

Can't believe nobody's mentioned Tyler Thigpen being traded to the Dolphins for an undisclosed draft pick. While I don't see him unseating Henne at this particular moment, if Henne bombs, at least Thigpen has some experience and shown flashes as a starter for Kansas City last year.

[Big Fo]

Thigpen was mentioned, it must have been in last week's thread. The undisclosed pick better have been a 6th or 7th rounder.

[Izulde]

Thigpen was mentioned, it must have been in last week's thread. The undisclosed pick better have been a 6th or 7th rounder.

Oh okay, I only heard about it a couple days go, so I thought it'd be in this thread.

[Big Fo]

I guess Pat White hasn't looked too impressive throwing the ball in practice. I'm still pissed that Miami used a 2nd round pick on him instead of someone that might have been able to contribute immediately.

[RomaGoth]

I guess Pat White hasn't looked too impressive throwing the ball in practice. I'm still pissed that Miami used a 2nd round pick on him instead of someone that might have been able to contribute immediately.

Amazing they took him that early in the draft. I think Parcells missed the boat with that one.

[TroyF]

Jedi,

What exactly did you think was wrong with the Steelers D before he got hurt? By my totals the Steelers D allowed around 130 yards and two FG attempts in almost a half before he got hurt. After he left, they gave up 71 in a single drive and then gave up over 200 yards the rest of the game.

[stevew]

Yeah, the struggles are primarily Polamalu based. I think if you took a top 5(or 10 if you guys want to be that way) defensive player in the league off of any team they'd be hurting. Seriously, I'm a homer but the dude makes plays unlike almost anyone else. They're in trouble until he gets healthy again.

The O-Line is obviously not that good. But what's plauged Steeler football as far as I can remember is the fact that they always seem too content with a 10 point lead. Cowher never lost those games(look it up, his record was rediculous), and Tomlin hasn't been nearly as good. But as a fan I can remember far too many games that were too close cause they were content with a lead.

Then again, if guys make plays(looking at you Santurdio vs. the Bears, and Manos:Hands of Sweed vs the Bengals), the team is 3-0 right now.

I'm not panicking, and actually I really don't care as much as I used to. The titles have me fat with goodwill right now. If they lose to San Diego this week, I'm going to get concerned though.

[JediKooter]

Jedi,

What exactly did you think was wrong with the Steelers D before he got hurt? By my totals the Steelers D allowed around 130 yards and two FG attempts in almost a half before he got hurt. After he left, they gave up 71 in a single drive and then gave up over 200 yards the rest of the game.

Definitely not bashing the Steelers D here. :)

They looked slow, not that they look bad. Harrison doesn't seem to be blowing by people as frequently as well. He did finally get his first sack last weekend. I don't think they are in any danger of a collapse or anything like that. The opening night game was one heck of a fun game to watch. Probably a heart stopper for Steelers fans though.

It may be that TP has been bitten by the Head and Shoulders curse, but, I'd take the Steelers D any day of the week, with or without Troy. I really enjoy watching the Steelers D (except when they play the Chargers) and how they normaly dictate the game. Even in the Super Bowl last season, it was the D that won it for them or that last minute drive by Ben and Co. would not have mattered.

Their O-line, looks pretty much the same as it did last year, to me.

When I watch the Steelers D, I just think, "Damn, why can't the Chargers D be as agressive as these guys?" The Steelers are still agressive, just look a little slow to me. Who knows, this weeks game may be the game they work out the kinks and back to their normal selves, since the Chargers O-line is just a wreck.

[JAG]

Don't you think that any coach hired under Jerry Jones is really just a "yes" man though?

Jimmy Johnson and Parcells weren't, but that does fit the other four.

[JAG]

I guess Pat White hasn't looked too impressive throwing the ball in practice. I'm still pissed that Miami used a 2nd round pick on him instead of someone that might have been able to contribute immediately.

Why did they need someone to contribute immediately? They're 0-3 now, chances are one player wasn't going to turn this into a Super Bowl season.

[Julio Riddols]

If Cincinnati wins by 14 or more this week, I will be ready to believe the culture is changed there, at least for this season. Can't afford to play down to competition if they really do have the mental toughness that has been missing for so long.

Pretty stoked about the Jets/Saints matchup, I think the Jets win due to a better balance of Defense/Offense. Sanchez might have a statement game here. Ravens/Pats looks nice too, I think the Ravens will expose the Pats and win fairly easily though. The Patriots are not the same this season, and it seems obvious.. And Joe Flacco is not the guy I thought he was. He seems to have taken HUGE steps this offseason, which is scary as shit, considering that the D in Baltimore is always stout with Ray Lewis in the lineup.

[RomaGoth]

Yeah, the struggles are primarily Polamalu based. I think if you took a top 5(or 10 if you guys want to be that way) defensive player in the league off of any team they'd be hurting. Seriously, I'm a homer but the dude makes plays unlike almost anyone else. They're in trouble until he gets healthy again.

The O-Line is obviously not that good. But what's plauged Steeler football as far as I can remember is the fact that they always seem too content with a 10 point lead. Cowher never lost those games(look it up, his record was rediculous), and Tomlin hasn't been nearly as good. But as a fan I can remember far too many games that were too close cause they were content with a lead.

Then again, if guys make plays(looking at you Santurdio vs. the Bears, and Manos:Hands of Sweed vs the Bengals), the team is 3-0 right now.

I'm not panicking, and actually I really don't care as much as I used to. The titles have me fat with goodwill right now. If they lose to San Diego this week, I'm going to get concerned though.

I kinda feel the same way. I would love to see a killer instinct from this team for a change, rather than the "let's hold onto this 10 point lead without moving the ball on offense the rest of the game" attitude. Just like you, though, I am happy with 2 titles in 5 years, and knowing how difficult it is to repeat, I am not expecting anything more than an average to slightly above average season (anywhere from 8-8 to 10-6 seems realistic to me).

TP is a monster too, they are definitely hurting without him. Too bad he can't play o-line too. :(

[RomaGoth]

Jimmy Johnson and Parcells weren't, but that does fit the other four.

The funny thing is, wouldn't you consider Johnson and Parcells the two most successful coaches since Jerry Jones bought the team? (especially Johnson)

They both pretty much left on their own terms, where as the other ones were essentially fired/let go.

[JAG]

Well, the biggest problem with the Cowboys since Johnson left wasn't the coaching, it was GM Jerry, yes man Larry Lacewell, and the horrible drafting they were involved with. They started drafting better I think a year before Parcells arrived and while he had some misses, they had some good picks during that time (although keep in mind there were some misses too, and he wanted to take DE Marcus Spears at #11 in 2005 instead of Ware) and thus far seem to have drafted well since he left after he laid some good groundwork. Some of the recent success also interestingly coincides with his son Stephen Jones getting more influence in the organization, so I'll be interested to see what they decide coaching-wise after this season when Phillips gets fired (barring the Cowboys having a very successful season).

[Radii]

I know everyone else is bored today since the Panthers have a bye, but there are other games that could be discussed!

[DaddyTorgo]

this pats team needs to learn to fucking punch the ball in when in the red zone, and play redzone defense or they're going nowhere

[Neuqua]

Bears and Lions in a shootout

[kingfc22]

Raiders are so fun to watch because they are AWFUL. Pure comic relief.

[kingfc22]

Jaminkus is as accurate as always. 4/10 for 32 yards. LOL

[hoopsguy]

Bears punter Maynard has put two coffin corner punts to put the Lions inside the 5. Pretty impressive.

[Sublime 2]

Pats D is getting great pressure on Flacco, and the offense (other than their first possession) has looked solid, and relatively balanced.

[RainMaker]

Has anyone had trouble getting to ESPN fantasy football today?

[larrymcg421]

Patriots lineman pushes a Ravens DT into Brady. 15 yard penalty on the Ravens. :rolleyes:

[Greyroofoo]

Always nice to see Peyton drive down the field with less than 2 minutes remaining.

[Radii]

Seriously impressive drive by the lions after getting pinned at the 2 yard line with 4:50 left in the half... 11 play/98 yard drive for a TD led by Stafford, scoring with under 30 seconds left to tie the game up.

[mauchow]

Patriots lineman pushes a Ravens DT into Brady. 15 yard penalty on the Ravens. :rolleyes:

And he nicked Brady... Brady started pointing at the guy like he was four years old. "He tried hurting me, Mr Referee!"

[mauchow]

Lets see how the Lions screw up this last second play in the half for the Bears.

[samifan24]

I have Comcast here in Connecticut and we have a free preview of the new NFL Red Zone channel today. So far I watched Peyton Manning make an incredible TD pass as time expired, Robert Gathers run a fumble back for a TD and countless scoring plays right as they happen. It's great.

[hoopsguy]

Seriously impressive drive by the lions after getting pinned at the 2 yard line with 4:50 left in the half... 11 play/98 yard drive for a TD led by Stafford, scoring with under 30 seconds left to tie the game up.

All three of their scoring drives were 9+ plays and 70+ yards, ending in TDs. Big 3rd down pickups ... they look really good.

I'm not sure which of the two QB's has the bigger arm - they both throw the heck out of the ball. But old man Favre probably has the 2nd weakest arm in the division.

[DaddyTorgo]

Patriots lineman pushes a Ravens DT into Brady. 15 yard penalty on the Ravens. :rolleyes:

hey that's the rules...you win some and you lose some. The calls even out over the course of games...the NFL has decided to protect the QB's.

[Galaril]

Wow, the Titans are getting pole axed by no less the jags 30-3 :o.........Fisher is definitely staring at this being his last season if not sooner being he has a very talented team as most know and his and GM Reinfeldts poor personnell decisions like not signing the second top KR/PR from last season or a veteran replacement instead of a rookie, going thinner at CB, Pacman etc rests on them.

[larrymcg421]

How long until Vince Young gets in there?

[Neuqua]

Johnny Knox returns the 2nd half opening kickoff 102 yards and the Bears take a 28-21 lead.

Man that kid is fast.

[mauchow]

Johnny Knox returns the 2nd half opening kickoff 102 yards and the Bears take a 28-21 lead.

Man that kid is fast.

Holy crap. Upon my slow mo replay he dropped the ball before he got into the endzone. DeSean Jackson style, except a lot closer to the goal line.

[larrymcg421]

Holy crap. Upon my slow mo replay he dropped the ball before he got into the endzone. DeSean Jackson style, except a lot closer to the goal line.

You're absolutely right. It really looks like he did drop it too early.

[Galaril]

How long until Vince Young gets in there?

They got the Colts at home next week and then on the road at New England definitely losses with this pass defense or lack of. I figure they will keep Collins in to take the beating the Colts and Pats will be handing out. Then they are on a bye week followed by a home game against the Jags. I would bet they are 0-6 going into that one and then we see Young take over for good until the end of the season. Young has a huge pay bump for next season so this would be is last chance to save his job in Tennessee. He looked better this past preseason know that he has something to throw to albiet not much still.

[larrymcg421]

I still do not understand illegal contact calls. If that got called every time there was contact beyond 5 yards, shouldn't flags be flying on almost every downfield pass?

[mauchow]

Another good starting spot for the Bears. If the Lions don't create a turnover here or hold them to no points it could be time to watch the Pats/Ravens full time.

[cartman]

LOL @ the Raiders. Give up a safety, then the Texans return the ensuing free kick for a TD.

[DaddyTorgo]

LMAO

[Thomkal]

Has anyone had trouble getting to ESPN fantasy football today?

I've had it up since before the games started and I am not able to reach one of my team's pages-don't know if that's related to your problem or not.

And I kept going back and forth between starting Portis and Kevin Smith since they were both coming off injuries...I did not choose wisely it seems. :(

[SirFozzie]

Either the Pats have a really good d-plan going up, or the front seven is no where as near as bad as rumored, even with Mayo out (and he's practicing, so hopefully he'll be back in the next couple weeks.

[SirFozzie]

Dola:FUCK.

[kcchief19]

Can't believe nobody's mentioned Tyler Thigpen being traded to the Dolphins for an undisclosed draft pick. While I don't see him unseating Henne at this particular moment, if Henne bombs, at least Thigpen has some experience and shown flashes as a starter for Kansas City last year.
It's difficult for any QB to come in midseason and run an offense, even more so for someone as inexperienced and limited as Thigpen. I say limited because Thigpen is an emergency QB only -- when you're QB goes down for a few weeks, you break the glass and scheme around him with a spread offense, QB runs and a Wildcat-style offense. It's actually a decent fit for the Dolphins but don't expect Thigpen to come in and take a team to the playoffs.
Thigpen was mentioned, it must have been in last week's thread. The undisclosed pick better have been a 6th or 7th rounder.
My guess is that this might wipe out the undisclosed pick we sent a few weeks ago for the two offensive linemen. Jacksonville offered a 5th for Thigpen preseason and Pioli wanted a 4th. I say it either ends up with a no pick exchanged or a net 7th for the Chiefs.

[JediKooter]

Has anyone had trouble getting to ESPN fantasy football today?

Yes, I can't log in at all.

[Thomkal]

I've had it up since before the games started and I am not able to reach one of my team's pages-don't know if that's related to your problem or not.

And I kept going back and forth between starting Portis and Kevin Smith since they were both coming off injuries...I did not choose wisely it seems. :(

Ah got through to that team page and this notice has been posted:

We're currently experiencing issues with our registration system that prevent some users from logging in. We're working to resolve them as quickly as possible and apologize for the inconvenience.

[kcchief19]

Eli has a "bruised heel" and is probably out the rest of the game. I put it in quotes because he wasn't hit on the play in question -- Kenny, Moose and Goose think it could be an achilles issue but it also looked like it could have been a strain or a stress injury.

[Thomkal]

And for the record, I cannot stand Phil Simms as a broadcaster-hardly ever contributes an insightful point, gets penalty calls/replays wrong all the time, basically just agrees with whatever Jim Nantz says...grrrr.

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL - you can tell that on that Pats drive right after the strip-sack TD that Brady said "okay guys...hop on my back and let me just wing it" because they just carved up the Ravens secondary to put the lead back at 10

[Balldog]

Uh oh Stafford just went down holding his right knee.

[kcchief19]

I may have ranted about this last week but I have very serious concerns about whether we may look at the hiring of Todd Haley as a Mangenius-esque hire.

The pro for Haley was that he was the offensive coordinator for a high-scoring team that made the Super Bowl.

The cons are pretty high. He was only offensive coordinator for two years and only called plays for one full season. In that full season, he had screaming matches on the sideline with Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald. In that Super Bowl season, they only went 9-7 and happened to catch lighting in a bottle by getting hot at the right time and catching some breaks such as going against a rookie QB and having Jake Delhomme self-implode.

Since he has arrived here Haley has done some of the same things Mangini has done in Cleveland. He refused to talk our only decent offensive lineman Brian Waters and when they finally ran into each other Haley told him he could get 53 guys off the street to win two games (apparently not). He and Piolo have completely ignore the team's legacy and the Chiefs legends who were at the center of the Peterson Era have been shown the door.

Then he fires his offensive coordinator before the season starts and engages in some of the most bizarre play calling I've ever seen. By most accounts, Gailey was fired because he wanted Thigpen to be the backup QB and run more of a spread offense. Haley wanted to be more conservative and go to Brodie Croyle as the backup (Croyle is awful by the way). So far this season the Chiefs offense has been horrific and unimaginative. Down by three scores in the second half against the Eagles, the Chiefs gave up and ran the ball 20 times and threw 8 times in the second half. They have no offensive line yet continue to use seven-step drops and nothing to try and get the ball out to the WRs faster.

I bought into the "fanbole" of Pioli and Haley coming here but so far all of the nagging doubts have been reinforced and none of the upside has been realized. This is a horrible, horrible team.

[JediKooter]

Nice mohawk Jamarcus Russell. You still suck.

[Karlifornia]

Nice mohawk Jamarcus Russell. You still suck.

The Raiders don't have anything on offense, besides maybe a decent TE in Miller and a decent RB in McFadden. The WR's suck, Russell sucks, the OL sucks. Just awful.

[mauchow]

Browns are winning??

[Eaglesfan27]

Browns are winning??

Yes, Bengals offense has been crap the 2nd half, but might be finally waking up now.

[DeToxRox]

Uh oh Stafford just went down holding his right knee.

Looks like it's just a twist. I'd assume he'd be in the back already if not.

[JediKooter]

The Raiders don't have anything on offense, besides maybe a decent TE in Miller and a decent RB in McFadden. The WR's suck, Russell sucks, the OL sucks. Just awful.

You said it. Why any player would want to play on that team is beyond me, other than it beats digging ditches.

Heck, I could throw just as many, if not more incomplete passes as Russell for a tenth of his pay.

[Eaglesfan27]

Palmer to Ochocinco on 4th and goal for the TD!

[Eaglesfan27]

Wow. Bengals with a bad snap that leads to the extra point being blocked. Tied at 20.

[Greyroofoo]

Bungles!!!

[Radii]

Baltimore has two tries to get 1 yard to keep a drive alive and fail miserably.

[Hammer755]

Bears punter Maynard has put two coffin corner punts to put the Lions inside the 5. Pretty impressive.

I've been a fan of Maynard's since he won the MAC Defensive POY and league MVP at Ball State. Seriously ... a punter being named conference MVP!

[Radii]

Pats 3 and out and the punt goes into the end zone for a touchback. Ravens ball at the 20 with 3:30 left.

[Eaglesfan27]

Bengals got the ball first in OT but ended up punting.

[mauchow]

oh man what a drop

[Sublime 2]

Phew...dropped pass by the Ravens give the Pats the win!

Good game, Ray Rice abused the Pats on a couple of screen plays and a few runs.

[DaddyTorgo]

hehe woohoo

pats deserved that win anyways

[MikeVic]

Really Bengals? Geez. I picked them in a suicide pool since I thought even they could beat the Browns. Not looking like a great pick right now.

[Eaglesfan27]

Really Bengals? Geez. I picked them in a suicide pool since I thought even they could beat the Browns. Not looking like a great pick right now.

What does a tie count as in a suicide pool?

[MikeVic]

What does a tie count as in a suicide pool?

I think I get eliminated from the pool.

[Logan]

The Raiders don't have anything on offense, besides maybe a decent TE in Miller and a decent RB in McFadden. The WR's suck, Russell sucks, the OL sucks. Just awful.

Chaz Schilens is actually pretty damn good.

I think I get eliminated from the pool.

That's how my pool worked with the Eagles tie last year.

[Big Fo]

First career pick for Vontae Davis and he walks it into the endzone for six.

10-0 Dolphins.

[Eaglesfan27]

The Bengals with a 31 yard FG with 7 seconds left in OT to win it.

[MikeVic]

lol, announcer in the Bengals game...

"Why are they calling for a timeout with 7 seconds left? You're kicking to Joshua Cribbs after this."

"We're in overtime."

"Oh, you just get so confused up here."

[cougarfreak]

Jesus.........the Bengals offense was terrible today, and they still won on the road.

[Logan]

lol, announcer in the Bengals game...

"Why are they calling for a timeout with 7 seconds left? You're kicking to Joshua Cribbs after this."

"We're in overtime."

"Oh, you just get so confused up here."

Awesome. Anyone know who it was?

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm not sure, but he was talking a few minutes earlier about McNabb getting confused in OT and how he was also a Syracuse grad.

[kcchief19]

That FG was good? Seen the replay a few times and it still looks wide right. Must be a bad angle. NFL RedZone says they will be discussing it momentarily.

[JPhillips]

The Bengals have got to stop this crap. I can't live through sixteen weeks of this.

[Masked]

Saints offense - 3 points
Saints defense - 14 points

[Logan]

I'm not sure, but he was talking a few minutes earlier about McNabb getting confused in OT and how he was also a Syracuse grad.

Syracuse huh? Makes sense.

Not a great start for Mark Sanchez. First Darren Sharper picks him off on the goal line and runs it all the way back, and now he gets stripped in his own end zone after holding on to the ball way too long, and the Saints fall on it for the TD.

[Chief Rum]

So was Braylon Edwards not playing today? WTF? (Fantasy)

[Tigercat]

Wonder what that NY media who claimed that the Jets offense had the big advantage over a bad Saints defense will say now?

It may be against a Green (heh) QB, but yet again this Saints D is showing how improved it is. Greg Williams is the man.

[kcchief19]

I'm not sure, but he was talking a few minutes earlier about McNabb getting confused in OT and how he was also a Syracuse grad.
Sadly it was Rich Gannon, who I generally like. But he's teamed with Ian Eagle, which means he's the new Solomon Wilcots, which in turn means he has no idea what's talking about. Ian Eagle seems to bring everyone down to his level.

[Bearcat729]

So was Braylon Edwards not playing today? WTF? (Fantasy)

Edwards played, dropped one pass that I know of, then Anderson realized that Massaquoi could catch and pretty much ignored Edwards the rest of the game.

[DaddyTorgo]

Romo's got the worst hands of any QB in the league...dropping snaps constantly

[Logan]

Romo's got the worst hands of any QB in the league...dropping snaps constantly

We already know he can't clutch.

[Butter]

So was Braylon Edwards not playing today? WTF? (Fantasy)

Yes, they pretty much didn't throw to him today at all.

[Butter]

lol, announcer in the Bengals game...

"Why are they calling for a timeout with 7 seconds left? You're kicking to Joshua Cribbs after this."

"We're in overtime."

"Oh, you just get so confused up here."

Awesome. Anyone know who it was?

The Syracuse announcer was Ian Eagle I believe, and the guy who got confused was Rich Gannon.

[Butter]

The Bengals have got to stop this crap. I can't live through sixteen weeks of this.

That's 3 games now where they've pretty much decided to show up on one drive during the game, and on one drive at the end of regulation... only they lost vs. Denver. That will bite you in the ass eventually. Kind of evens out the Denver loss a little bit, playing Cleveland that close almost felt like a loss.

[Big Fo]

Miami now crushing the Bills 31-3, Henne has been decent and Miami's running game and defense are doing really well.

[Super Ugly]

Jets with a big stop on 4th down, trailing by 7. I love Bart Scott, but I think he needs to shut the fuck up before he draws a flag ...

[Crapshoot]

49ers aren't this good, but the Rams are this bad.

[bronconick]

Thank God Sanchez finally looked like a rookie. I don't know how much more ESPN man-love I could handle listening to. Now if Favre will just crap his pants Monday night I'll be set.

[hoopsguy]

So I'm wondering if this is a big game for the Cowboys? If so, then Romo may get "out-clutched" by Orton, who needs about 15 yards to get into FG range.

[kingfc22]

Niners take care of business. 3-0 in the division

[Eaglesfan27]

Always nice to see the Cowboys collapse.

[Crapshoot]

What a play by Brandon Marshall. Wade is getting fired this week. :D

[henry296]

Marshall probably shouldn't have tried to score... Now Romo has 1:45 to prove he is clutch.

[Big Fo]

I guess Marshall didn't need to practice in preseason, that was impressive.

[hoopsguy]

Wow, some serious YAC on the TD grab by Marshall. 51 yards, great throw by Orton although I'm guessing Marshall ran about 90.

OK, time for Romo to run the two minute drill. No pressure ...

[mauchow]

Good for Orton. Always had a soft spot for the guy when the Badgers knocked him out of the Heisman race years back.

4-0 for a guy nobody really gave a shot.

Romo time though.

[Crapshoot]

And a hell of a play by Romo. This game is good.

[mauchow]

Romo doing the unbelievable.. lol

[CU Tiger]

every now and then Romo does something like this that makes me a fan again.

[Big Fo]

Nicely done by Romo and Herd there.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Nice throw by Romo.

[hoopsguy]

Wow, Romo did a great job of keeping that play alive on 4th and 3, then threw across his body to something like his 11th receiver, who ran it down to the Bronco 20.

And Wade Phillips is just oozing confidence on the sidelines. How can you not win for that guy?

[larrymcg421]

Really happy with the Dolphins today. Henne played a very Pennington-esque game - lots of short throws, minimal mistakes. The pass rush finally showed up, Ronnie/Ricky tore it up, and for the first time this year, we finally finished off some drives.

But I guess I should be disappointed with this 38-10 victory, since according to Matt Millen and wade it wasn't as good a performance as their 27-23 loss to the Colts, since they only possessed the ball for 37 minutes.

[NewIdentity]

That was a terrible play for dallas. Why didn't the reciver try to get out of bounds?

[CU Tiger]

awwww. fahhhhhhh........ btw bailey was early there....

[DeToxRox]

Not Romo's fault at the end but throwing 16 times at Champ? Really?

[hoopsguy]

Not sure why they kept throwing at Bailey or to Hurd ... could that really have been the best option for the Cowboys?

I'm amazed that the Broncos are 4-0.

[henry296]

Was Williams hurt, I saw him on the sideline, but had no sound on.

[cartman]

Was Williams hurt, I saw him on the sideline, but had no sound on.

They didn't announce anything, but I'd surprised if he didn't have at least some bruised ribs on a shot he received earlier in the 4th quarter.

[TroyF]

Roy took a shot in the fourth quarter. Ribs had to be hurting badly.

As a Denver Broncos fan, I'm stunned. I fully expected to go 4-12 or 5-11 this year. Forget the fluke win at Cincy, this defense is for real. Four games, 26 points allowed. They allowed 315 yards today, and only allowed the vaunted Cowboys running game to a 3.0 yards per carry.

I still don't think this is a Super Bowl contender. They could easily still lose their next four games. Romo was off a lot of the day. Orton still sucks. But it looks to me like this defense will give Denver a chance to win most of their games.

The most exciting thing for me today was Ayers. Only a couple of tackles on the stat sheet, but he was all over the field. As pissed off as I was over the Cutler fiasco, I said I'd give Josh McD a chance. He's got this team playing good ball.

Oh. . . and for you NFC East fans. . . I always knew Dawkins was a special player. But watching this guy game in, game out, I'm amazed at how good he is.

[Eaglesfan27]

Oh. . . and for you NFC East fans. . . I always knew Dawkins was a special player. But watching this guy game in, game out, I'm amazed at how good he is.

Philly letting him go is one of my biggest disappointments. He's still one of my favorite players.

[TroyF]

One more thing about things I saw today:

The Sanchez diving at the legs play was one of the single cheapest plays I've seen in the NFL. If Sanchez was running down the field on some reverse and a defender with no chance to make the tackle cut him, the offending party could be expected to miss next weeks game at a minimum.

The league wants to protect QB's. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. They damned well should send a message to the rest of the league that a QB cheap shotting another player won't be acceptable either. I still like the guy and I'm sure it came out of frustration. . . but that cannot be tolerated on a football field.

[Oilers9911]

I can't believe Denver is 4-0. I know the bubble will burst at some point but for now I am enjoying the ride. I am not going to go as far as saying Orton sucks. Is he great? No. Is he good? That's even stretching it. I would say that he is....ok and hasn't hurt them. He hasn't thrown a pick this year and his QB rating is or was around 90. Now perhaps if he took more shots downfield he would turn it over more and yes he hasn't put up alot of passing yards but I still wouldn't say he sucks.

[k0ruptr]

I'm not a Bronco fan but seriously Mcd has this team bonding together and playing good ball. There schedule doesn't get any easier, but they have easily surpassed my expectations and the Defense is golden! I'm really rooting for them in the AFC now, good story.

[kcchief19]

Good for Orton. Always had a soft spot for the guy when the Badgers knocked him out of the Heisman race years back.

4-0 for a guy nobody really gave a shot.
Great throw? Looked like the usual Orton to me -- completely under the WR which surprised the DB and Marshall was able to adjust and make the catch. Orton was "trying" to throw a jump ball for Marshall to use his height to out jump the receiver. If the defender tried to just knock the ball down, that pass is incomplete -- went right past his hands. Great play by Marshall. Go figure that the best player on that team making plays is the guy the coach wants to get rid of.

I readily admit I'm looking at this through anti-orange tinted glasses because I dislike the Broncos so much, but how is this team 4-0? Pure luck, I realize -- Cincy, Cleveland and Oakland aren't exactly murderer's row. This game is in Big D and I think Dallas wins by a couple of scores, and I don't think Dallas is very good right now either.

But 4-0 will give them confidence and that will probably propel them to some more wins. But this has to be one of the luckiest 4-0 teams I've ever seen, from the blooper-worthy win over the Bangles to stumbling past the Cowboys today.

Cue Troy to tell me why I'm full of crap and the Broncos are in fact better than the '07 Patriots and '72 Dolphins -- combined. ;)

[kcchief19]

As a Denver Broncos fan, I'm stunned. I fully expected to go 4-12 or 5-11 this year. Forget the fluke win at Cincy, this defense is for real. Four games, 26 points allowed. They allowed 315 yards today, and only allowed the vaunted Cowboys running game to a 3.0 yards per carry.

I still don't think this is a Super Bowl contender. They could easily still lose their next four games. Romo was off a lot of the day. Orton still sucks. But it looks to me like this defense will give Denver a chance to win most of their games.
C'mon, stop being realistic. You're making me look like a dick now. :)

[k0ruptr]

The cowboys were leading the entire NFL in rushing going in to this game.

And I agree, I have no idea what they were thinking throwing at champ so much. You don't pick on Champ, Champ picks on you.

[kcchief19]

One more thing about things I saw today:

The Sanchez diving at the legs play was one of the single cheapest plays I've seen in the NFL. If Sanchez was running down the field on some reverse and a defender with no chance to make the tackle cut him, the offending party could be expected to miss next weeks game at a minimum.

The league wants to protect QB's. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. They damned well should send a message to the rest of the league that a QB cheap shotting another player won't be acceptable either. I still like the guy and I'm sure it came out of frustration. . . but that cannot be tolerated on a football field.
It was a cheap play but I don't think it was intentional. I think it was a rookie QB who has probably never tackled anyone in his life trying not to look bad and ... ending up looking bad.

And it wasn't anywhere near as cheap as the shot Favre put on Eugene Wilson in the preseason. If Sanchez gets fined as much as Favre did, it'll be another case of the NFL cutting a veteran slack and punishing a kid. I'm sure the ass-chewing Sanchez will get from his team will drill the message home.

[k0ruptr]

Also just another stat I noticed. Elvis Dumervil is a beast the last 3 weeks. 8 sacks in 3 games. lol thats awesome.

[McSweeny]

It was a cheap play but I don't think it was intentional. I think it was a rookie QB who has probably never tackled anyone in his life trying not to look bad and ... ending up looking bad.

And it wasn't anywhere near as cheap as the shot Favre put on Eugene Wilson in the preseason. If Sanchez gets fined as much as Favre did, it'll be another case of the NFL cutting a veteran slack and punishing a kid. I'm sure the ass-chewing Sanchez will get from his team will drill the message home.

actually i'm pretty sure Sanchez did the same exact thing against Houston in week 1

[Swaggs]

Woah! Carey Davis is back w/ the Steelers?

[henry296]

I really don't think Wallace got his second foot down on that catch on the sideline.

As for Davis, he was signed this week since both fullbacks were hurt.

[DaddyTorgo]

sour grapes from Ravens players complaining about the officials during the game - the roughing the passer calls were what they were - the Pats also had one that was pretty minimal that they got flagged for, so they were just calling that tight.

as for the spots - on the 4th and 1 by McGahee he was NOWHERE near a first down, and it was never clear that on the fake-FG (that was nullified by a penalty anyways) that the spot would have gotten them a first down.

Baltimore Ravens criticize referees for perceived slights by referees vs. Patriots - ESPN Boston (http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4531578)

[mauchow]

Great throw? Looked like the usual Orton to me -- completely under the WR which surprised the DB and Marshall was able to adjust and make the catch. Orton was "trying" to throw a jump ball for Marshall to use his height to out jump the receiver. If the defender tried to just knock the ball down, that pass is incomplete -- went right past his hands. Great play by Marshall. Go figure that the best player on that team making plays is the guy the coach wants to get rid of.

I readily admit I'm looking at this through anti-orange tinted glasses because I dislike the Broncos so much, but how is this team 4-0? Pure luck, I realize -- Cincy, Cleveland and Oakland aren't exactly murderer's row. This game is in Big D and I think Dallas wins by a couple of scores, and I don't think Dallas is very good right now either.

But 4-0 will give them confidence and that will probably propel them to some more wins. But this has to be one of the luckiest 4-0 teams I've ever seen, from the blooper-worthy win over the Bangles to stumbling past the Cowboys today.

Cue Troy to tell me why I'm full of crap and the Broncos are in fact better than the '07 Patriots and '72 Dolphins -- combined. ;)

I didn't say anything about Orton's throw...

*shrug*

I was just saying that I had a soft spot for the guy. I know he isn't all that but the guy was traded for Cutler and it seems to have worked out for both sides...... so far.

[henry296]

DT - On the fake FG, if he was short, then Baltimore declines penalty and the Patriots don't get 3 points and then they could've tied instead of going forward on 4th down. I didn't see the replays, but it was an important call.

[Dodgerchick]

Where's the defense? Jeezus

[mauchow]

He wasn't short. The announcer thought he was short but there was no way he was short, lol

[Swaggs]

sour grapes from Ravens players complaining about the officials during the game - the roughing the passer calls were what they were - the Pats also had one that was pretty minimal that they got flagged for, so they were just calling that tight.

as for the spots - on the 4th and 1 by McGahee he was NOWHERE near a first down, and it was never clear that on the fake-FG (that was nullified by a penalty anyways) that the spot would have gotten them a first down.

Baltimore Ravens criticize referees for perceived slights by referees vs. Patriots - ESPN Boston (http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4531578)

Somehow, I knew who the quoted Raven would be before I read the article. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

DT - On the fake FG, if he was short, then Baltimore declines penalty and the Patriots don't get 3 points and then they could've tied instead of going forward on 4th down. I didn't see the replays, but it was an important call.

An interview with referee Ron Winters, from the Patriots:The Patriots attempted a fake field goal with 7:18 left in the fourth quarter. Punter Chris Hanson complete a four yard pass to tight end Chris Baker for four yards. But Baker was called for illegal motion. Here is where it gets funny.

Q: What were the Ravens challenging on the fake field goal?
RW: The Ravens were challenging that the pass should have been called incomplete.

Q: Why did the illegal motion penalty not override that challenge?
RW: If it had been an incomplete pass, then they would have declined the penalty and they would have taken the ball at the previous spot. Baltimore would have – because it was fourth down [and an] incomplete pass – so they would have gotten the ball 1st-and-10 at the previous spot. So that’s why they challenged that, to determine whether or not it was in fact a completed pass. When we found out it was a completed pass, then the illegal motion penalty kicks in. [That] takes it back, so they have to repeat the down …. It was a fourth down. [He] caught the pass [and it was] good for a first down.

Q: So [Baltimore] challenged if [New England] had caught the ball?
RW: That’s right.

Q: Should the play have been spotted and measured before the challenge?
RW: There was no indisputable evidence to indicate that the ball was not a first down. We looked at that to see if it was in fact a first down. We couldn't determine that from the replay. So the ruling on the field would stand in that regard.

[TroyF]

C'mon, stop being realistic. You're making me look like a dick now. :)


You did that yourself. Luckiest 4-0 team in history? And then trying to take away the Cowboy win as though Dallas lost it and Denver didn't deserve it? Get a grip.

At best, you could say Dallas played Denver to a draw. I know, Romo missed receivers. The Broncos 5 sacks, holding the running game to 3 yards a carry and constant pressure didn't have anything to do with that, right?

They had a lucky win at Cincy. They blew out Cleveland and the Raiders. They could easily finish the year 6-10. . . but that wouldn't take a thing away from three of this teams wins, especially the one today.

[Dodgerchick]

Sigh

[DaddyTorgo]

haha - funny comment from the KSK comments - to be clear, not mine at all, i just like the bolded part


I love it. Broken record from ‘07 when they lost to Patriots in Baltimore. Even when teams actually do get screwed by bad officiating it makes them players, fans, and media who whine about it sound like 8 year old bitches with scraped knees.

This is even worse because it looked to me like there was 1 bad roughing the passer call- and maybe 1 bad spot. That’s it. The second roughing the passer call was so blatant it was the first time I’ve ever agreed with the new diving below the knees rule. The first roughing the passer call was lame- but the Patriots got called for the same thing, hitting the QB’s head, on a 3rd down earlier in the game so thats a wash. So really- they’re bitching about 1 bad spot- so shut the fuck up.

If I were a reporter listening to Ray Lewis bitch I’d respond every time with, “Yeah well, you were complicit in the fatal stabbing of two people, and never served a day in jail, so… like Karma dude, you know?

[k0ruptr]

LOL

[k0ruptr]

SHIT the Chargers forgot to put the Stickum on there receiver gloves this week! ARG

[Dodgerchick]

Yeah why not go for it on fourth and inches on their own 30 right?

[k0ruptr]

well the good thing about this is Rivers is on my fantasy team(s) and they are gonna most likely air it out in the 2nd half. GO RIVERS!!!

[Dodgerchick]

Hope Norv Turner has a hell of a half time speech ready but I'm not holding my breath.

[Dodgerchick]

Live Drew Brees with Bob Costas and the undefeated Saints... Ugh.

[NewIdentity]

well the good thing about this is Rivers is on my fantasy team(s) and they are gonna most likely air it out in the 2nd half. GO RIVERS!!!
You should be OK, as long as your league does not subtract points for Ints.


I would not be surprised to see 5 sacks and 3 ints in the second half by the Steelers defense.


I wonder how much Ray Lewis is going to get fined for his comments?

[jbergey22]

You should be OK, as long as your league does not subtract points for Ints.


I would not be surprised to see 5 sacks and 3 ints in the second half by the Steelers defense.


I wonder how much Ray Lewis is going to get fined for his comments?


Hopefully he doesnt. That call was beyond horrible.

[TroyF]

It was a cheap play but I don't think it was intentional. I think it was a rookie QB who has probably never tackled anyone in his life trying not to look bad and ... ending up looking bad.

And it wasn't anywhere near as cheap as the shot Favre put on Eugene Wilson in the preseason. If Sanchez gets fined as much as Favre did, it'll be another case of the NFL cutting a veteran slack and punishing a kid. I'm sure the ass-chewing Sanchez will get from his team will drill the message home.

Huh? it was cheap but unintentional? OK, pray tell me what exactly was Sanchez trying to do? You said he'd never made a tackle so he didn't know how. . . um, he's not so daft that he has to learn that when making a tackle you have to hit the guy WHO HAS THE BALL is he?

He went after Vilma with a clear intent to injure. I think Sapp hitting the defenseless OL a few years ago was a cheap shot. Sanchez was right in line with that.

I'm not saying we chop his nuts off and hang em from the upper deck, but I am saying he needs a very stiff fine with the threat of suspension so that never happens again. Vilma could have had his season with that shot. This isn't a minor deal IMHO.

[Dodgerchick]

Chargers need a Glee dance to get back in the game.

[k0ruptr]

The receivers aren't helping Rivers out much. With the exception of Gates.

[k0ruptr]

Dola, I love Rivers to Gates, that connection is my fantasy team.

[k0ruptr]

I fucking LOVE you Rivers to Gates!

[henry296]

Speaking of fantasy, I'm playing Rodgers, Peterson, Harvin and Jennings tomorrow. I still have Big Ben tonight. I think I need at least a 50 point lead.

[k0ruptr]

yea, at least. Peterson could go off. Harvin has been a td a game so far, Jennings and Rodgers might not do great but probably average.

[Honolulu_Blue]

They had a free preview of the Red Zone channel today on Comcast (at least the one have). It was awesome.

I may pick it up the sports package just to get it. It's only $8 a month, which comes out to about $2 a Sunday. I'd pay $2 for that. Given that I get the Lions' games via the local feed, based on my experience with the NFL Sunday Ticket, the Red Zone Channel is a very, very good proxy for having all the games.

Now just to sneak it by Lady H_B who is already none to thrilled (rightfully so) with our ridiculous cable bill.

[Pumpy Tudors]

But I guess I should be disappointed with this 38-10 victory, since according to Matt Millen and wade it wasn't as good a performance as their 27-23 loss to the Colts, since they only possessed the ball for 37 minutes.
keep plucking that chicken

[kcchief19]

I didn't say anything about Orton's throw...

*shrug*

I was just saying that I had a soft spot for the guy. I know he isn't all that but the guy was traded for Cutler and it seems to have worked out for both sides...... so far.
Sorry, I clicked on the wrong thread for quoting. It was hoopsguy who said it was a great throw. My apologies for besmirching your good name!

[RainMaker]

They had a free preview of the Red Zone channel today on Comcast (at least the one have). It was awesome.

I may pick it up the sports package just to get it. It's only $8 a month, which comes out to about $2 a Sunday. I'd pay $2 for that. Given that I get the Lions' games via the local feed, based on my experience with the NFL Sunday Ticket, the Red Zone Channel is a very, very good proxy for having all the games.

Now just to sneak it by Lady H_B who is already none to thrilled (rightfully so) with our ridiculous cable bill.
They weren't able to get my DirecTV setup since some trees block the dish in the neighborhood. I got the Redzone Channel as an alternative and will say it was a blessing in disguise. Having a commercial free channel of non-stop football is amazing. With the Bears having late games the first 3 weeks, I've thoroughly enjoyed watching all the noon games via it.

I don't know how CBS and Fox aren't bitching. I never watch them anymore outside of the Bears games.

[Swaggs]

Kind of screwy that they didn't call progress on that, but I think his knee didn't touch.

[Swaggs]

...and so do the refs.

Frustrating. Not sure why they didn't blow the whistle there -- he had three guys standing him up and had been running in place for a few seconds (at least).

[k0ruptr]

Steelers steal a play from the chargers playbook and get a TD on the half back pass to most likely clinch the victory.

[henry296]

And when I could use another Big Ben TD, they use the half-back option to get a passing TD. Currently up by 44 in my fantasy game.

[kcchief19]

You did that yourself. Luckiest 4-0 team in history? And then trying to take away the Cowboy win as though Dallas lost it and Denver didn't deserve it? Get a grip.

At best, you could say Dallas played Denver to a draw. I know, Romo missed receivers. The Broncos 5 sacks, holding the running game to 3 yards a carry and constant pressure didn't have anything to do with that, right?

They had a lucky win at Cincy. They blew out Cleveland and the Raiders. They could easily finish the year 6-10. . . but that wouldn't take a thing away from three of this teams wins, especially the one today.
Thanks for taking the good natured kidding much too personally and seriously as usual. :)

I'd agree the game was a draw and I don't think I ever said that Dallas "lost" the game. I'm saying I think Dallas isn't very good right now, might be an .500 team at best. That's the toughest team Denver has played yet and it played to near draw at home.

I'll gladly admit to the usually "fanbole" on the luckiest 4-0 team ever but the schedule and breaks Denver has had so far this year has made for a great opportunity for them and they have taken advantage of it.

[stevew]

One of the worst calls I've ever seen on the Hester TD. The refs should kill themselves.

[Swaggs]

Man... Woodley has been half a second slow on getting to the QB about five times in the second half.

[k0ruptr]

I LOVE YOU RIVERS TO GATES~!! I think I just got enough of a lead to seal it. unless Aaron Rodgers goes ballistic and has a Brees esque day from week 1

[Crapshoot]

Okay, who told the Pittsburgh defense the game was over?

[Eaglesfan27]

I was all set to turn this one off after the last Pittsburgh TD. Glad I didn't..

[kcchief19]

Huh? it was cheap but unintentional? OK, pray tell me what exactly was Sanchez trying to do? You said he'd never made a tackle so he didn't know how. . . um, he's not so daft that he has to learn that when making a tackle you have to hit the guy WHO HAS THE BALL is he?

He went after Vilma with a clear intent to injure. I think Sapp hitting the defenseless OL a few years ago was a cheap shot. Sanchez was right in line with that.

I'm not saying we chop his nuts off and hang em from the upper deck, but I am saying he needs a very stiff fine with the threat of suspension so that never happens again. Vilma could have had his season with that shot. This isn't a minor deal IMHO.
Looking at a second time I would correct myself and say it was intentional. However, you can also see what he was trying to do -- dive through the blocker to trip up the returner. It was the only play he had. It wasn't a smart play because he could have wrecked his shoulder.

That said, it wasn't as cheap as I first thought. Yes he hit the guy low and it should have been called and possibly fined because low hits are a no-no. But he also hit the guy from the front and the guy could see it coming.

Favre got fined $10,000 for chop blocking Eugene Wilson from the side. What Sanchez did was stupid but it wasn't on the same level of what Favre did.

[Dodgerchick]

Chargers cant tackle for shit

[M GO BLUE!!!]

You got to love Hines Ward.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I used to love that HB pass play on FBPRO.

[TroyF]

Looking at a second time I would correct myself and say it was intentional. However, you can also see what he was trying to do -- dive through the blocker to trip up the returner. It was the only play he had. It wasn't a smart play because he could have wrecked his shoulder.

That said, it wasn't as cheap as I first thought. Yes he hit the guy low and it should have been called and possibly fined because low hits are a no-no. But he also hit the guy from the front and the guy could see it coming.

Favre got fined $10,000 for chop blocking Eugene Wilson from the side. What Sanchez did was stupid but it wasn't on the same level of what Favre did.


different viewpoints and all I guess. He wasn't trying to go through the blocker to the ball carrier. He was well behind the ball carrier. It was a cheap, disgusting play. I've read your response and I just can't see how someone could view it as not cheap or not on the level with what Favre did. I think it was every bit as bad if not worse. His goal was to injure. Period.

[Logan]

And as said, it's not the first time he's been flagged for it. I think someone needs to tell him to cut that shit out before a defender decides a 15 yard penalty is worth sending him that message.

[TroyF]

Steelers and Chargers are two of the leagues most goofy teams. The Steelers put up 500+ yards of offense and nearly lose the game. The Chargers look inept for long stretches. . . then Rivers gets into a groove and Katy bar the door.

I think the Chargers still win the AFC West, but their pass rush is poor and the loss of Williams looks like it may be a fatal blow for the defense. If I were Norv, I'd start playing pure spread offense 100% of the time. Rivers excels in those situations. They need to pretend they are behind from the opening kickoff.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Nothing like suddenly remembering that you are commenting on a message board about a game you are watching on delay. Duh.

[bhlloy]

This was a pretty bad defense before the loss of Williams to be honest Troy. I think losing Olshansky really hurt, the whole scheme was based on having 3 solid run stuffers up front keeping blockers off the middle linebackers and allowing the outside backers to freelance and basically pass rush the whole game. Williams was starting to look old even before the injury and Castillo can't do it all by himself. Add in that Merriman is pretty much done, Phillips had one good year when teams were focusing on Merriman and the fact that the secondary is horrendous, ugh. I really think this defense could be up there (down there?) with the worst units in NFL history. Looks like Phillips could be out for a long time now as well.

[DeToxRox]

Lions 49 - Steelers -7. Heard it hear first.

[TroyF]

This was a pretty bad defense before the loss of Williams to be honest Troy. I think losing Olshansky really hurt, the whole scheme was based on having 3 solid run stuffers up front keeping blockers off the middle linebackers and allowing the outside backers to freelance and basically pass rush the whole game. Williams was starting to look old even before the injury and Castillo can't do it all by himself. Add in that Merriman is pretty much done, Phillips had one good year when teams were focusing on Merriman and the fact that the secondary is horrendous, ugh. I really think this defense could be up there (down there?) with the worst units in NFL history. Looks like Phillips could be out for a long time now as well.


I don't disagree bh. That's why I said the fatal blow. It already had a lot of problems to begin with, but even an average Williams made the Chargers difficult to run up the middle against. Merriman still isn't himself after the injury. Because of that the pass rush just isn't there at all. I really thought with English added that Merriman would be successful this year. I still think this is a better team than the Broncos. The Broncs will meet both teams the Chargers lost to as well as the Chargers in the next four weeks. We'll be able to judge the AFC West at that point.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Lions 49 - Steelers -7. Heard it hear first.

So Steelers up 7-0, end of the 3rd qtr?

[EagleFan]

What happened in the Pittsburgh game, saw 28-0 and turned it off. Flipping by later and it's 35-28 and the Steelers are icing their own kicker.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

What happened in the Pittsburgh game, saw 28-0 and turned it off. Flipping by later and it's 35-28 and the Steelers are icing their own kicker.

Detroit's own Antonio Gates manned up. A nice HB pass got Pittsburgh another score. Gates showed again why he is dangerous. Then SD got an onside kick. Gates, Gates & more Gates.

[DeToxRox]

So Steelers up 7-0, end of the 3rd qtr?

Well played.

[EagleFan]

Oh, for anyone in the Season Prediction contest, check out how everyone has done for this week. We have a chance at the first ever perfect week.

[Fidatelo]

As a Broncos fan I finally got to see them play for the first time this season, and it was everything I could have asked for. They are better than I thought (their defence is for real), and I like Orton more than I thought I would, but they will still be lucky to finish 8-8. I hope I'm wrong, I hope they somehow take 1 or 2 from the Chargers, get the 3 wins from Oakland and KC that they should get, and maybe, just maybe, pull another win or two out somehow... but I doubt it.

Bottom line: this season has already exceeded my expectations, and we're playing with house money the rest of the way.

[TroyF]

As a Broncos fan I finally got to see them play for the first time this season, and it was everything I could have asked for. They are better than I thought (their defence is for real), and I like Orton more than I thought I would, but they will still be lucky to finish 8-8. I hope I'm wrong, I hope they somehow take 1 or 2 from the Chargers, get the 3 wins from Oakland and KC that they should get, and maybe, just maybe, pull another win or two out somehow... but I doubt it.

Bottom line: this season has already exceeded my expectations, and we're playing with house money the rest of the way.

4 wins are in the bank.

Let's give them the win against KC and Oak at home. That's 6.

Now it gets hard:

Patriots
Chargers x2
Ravens
Steelers
Redskins
Giants
Colts
Eagles
Chiefs

That's brutal.

8-8 is still going to be very tough to achieve. That said, I feel a hell of a lot more confident about our chances now than I did this morning.

[jbergey22]

4 wins are in the bank.

Let's give them the win against KC and Oak at home. That's 6.

Now it gets hard:

Patriots
Chargers x2
Ravens
Steelers
Redskins
Giants
Colts
Eagles
Chiefs

That's brutal.

8-8 is still going to be very tough to achieve. That said, I feel a hell of a lot more confident about our chances now than I did this morning.

If they can continue playing like they are on defense while this offense starts getting better as the season progresses wins against the Chargers, Redskins seem very possible and they could sneak out 2 other ones. The division is within reach with this poor San Diego defense that I swear Cleveland could run on right now. Surprisingly the Broncos averaged 2.16 points per possession last year and are averaging 2.03 this year on offense. Orton isnt playing well but he also isnt making mistakes.

Orton is actually outplaying Cutler this year by a substantial margin. FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2009 (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb)

[RainMaker]

4 wins are in the bank.

Let's give them the win against KC and Oak at home. That's 6.

Now it gets hard:

Patriots
Chargers x2
Ravens
Steelers
Redskins
Giants
Colts
Eagles
Chiefs

That's brutal.

8-8 is still going to be very tough to achieve. That said, I feel a hell of a lot more confident about our chances now than I did this morning.
It all depends on whether that defense is legit or not. With Orton, they have a QB who won't make mistakes and will do just enough to keep them in games. That's all you need in this league if you have a great defense to be a playoff team.

I think the division is really weak too. I think KC and Oakland are potential wins, and don't see why they can't split with Denver. The Redskins are bad and if they can sneak an upset out of one of the remaining teams, it's 9-7 and probably the division.

[RainMaker]

Orton is actually outplaying Cutler this year by a substantial margin. FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2009 (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb)
I'd be interested in seeing how Cutler stacks up in his last 3 games after throwing out that abortion against the Packers.

[jbergey22]

I'd be interested in seeing how Cutler stacks up in his last 3 games after throwing out that abortion against the Packers.

Probably quite well. His average per attempt this year has been impressive. He has faced the 7th, 9th, 17th and 30th rated defenses. The rankings will change quite a bit after this week as it adds strength of schedule to the rankings after week 4.

[TroyF]

Orton is really an enigma.

You watch the game and see him missing wide open WR all over the place. Underthrown balls, balls 15 feet wide of the target. Balls that should be picked off and are just missed.

Then. .. you look at the numbers at the end of the game. 20-29, 243 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT.

He's still wearing a glove. I'm interested to see his accuracy after he's able to get rid of that.

There is no question this all hinges on the defense. If the defense continues to play well, hold teams in the 17 point a game range and force turnovers. . . the Broncos will be in 90% of their games, even against the tough teams.

What I find amusing is how before this game, everyone jumped up and said, this is the game Denver can prove if they are for real or not. The third ranked offense in the league. The top rushing offense in the league. A team that put up 31 points and 378 yards on the Giants. This is where you'll find out how good they really are.

Well. . . 10 points, just over 300 total yards of offense, 3 yards a carry on the ground, 5 sacks, 2 forced turnovers. . . and now people are saying "it's just the Cowboys. Romo sucks and had an off day to boot." and talking about all of the Cowboys problems on offense.

It's funny that with all of those problems on offense, Dallas had games of 462 yards, 378 yards and 449 yards heading into this game.

I have zero problems with people looking at the schedule and saying "6-10, the schedule is still too strong" Just save me the speel about the Broncos beating yet another garbage offense, ok?

For myself, the five games in this grouping have to be looked at as a whole. Go 2-3 in them and you go into the buy week 5-3 with three games left against the Raiders/Chiefs. As for the defense? I'm fairly convinced at this point. If I'm right, I promise you the Broncos don't lose 4 straight games before the bye.

[RomaGoth]

Orton is really an enigma.

You watch the game and see him missing wide open WR all over the place. Underthrown balls, balls 15 feet wide of the target. Balls that should be picked off and are just missed.

Then. .. you look at the numbers at the end of the game. 20-29, 243 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT.

He's still wearing a glove. I'm interested to see his accuracy after he's able to get rid of that.

There is no question this all hinges on the defense. If the defense continues to play well, hold teams in the 17 point a game range and force turnovers. . . the Broncos will be in 90% of their games, even against the tough teams.

What I find amusing is how before this game, everyone jumped up and said, this is the game Denver can prove if they are for real or not. The third ranked offense in the league. The top rushing offense in the league. A team that put up 31 points and 378 yards on the Giants. This is where you'll find out how good they really are.

Well. . . 10 points, just over 300 total yards of offense, 3 yards a carry on the ground, 5 sacks, 2 forced turnovers. . . and now people are saying "it's just the Cowboys. Romo sucks and had an off day to boot." and talking about all of the Cowboys problems on offense.

It's funny that with all of those problems on offense, Dallas had games of 462 yards, 378 yards and 449 yards heading into this game.

I have zero problems with people looking at the schedule and saying "6-10, the schedule is still too strong" Just save me the speel about the Broncos beating yet another garbage offense, ok?

For myself, the five games in this grouping have to be looked at as a whole. Go 2-3 in them and you go into the buy week 5-3 with three games left against the Raiders/Chiefs. As for the defense? I'm fairly convinced at this point. If I'm right, I promise you the Broncos don't lose 4 straight games before the bye.

I think there is some truth to the "Dallas offense sucks" argument. They looked terrible yesterday, especially Romo. However, the Bronco defense was all over the place and they deserve recognition for how well they have played. They will be a playoff team if the defense keeps this up.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I think Denver is "for real" in the sense that no game against them will be easy and that they have every possibility of winning their division. The Patriots trip to Denver next week is *anything* but a gimmee.

[albionmoonlight]

Glad that Troy noticed the Sanchez block. That play was incredibly cheap. I don't know if a one game suspension is out of line for it.

In the case of Favre, his teammate had the ball, and he was blocking for his teammate. The block was dirty, but it made sense in a football context.

In contrast, Sanchez was acting as a defender, and he had no chance to catch the ball carrier, so he just dove at the knees of an opposing player. The only thing he could have been trying to do there was injure the opposing player. There is no legitimate football reason to do what he did.

Part of me thinks that, had he not been a QB, he might have gotten kicked out of the game for it.

The closest examples I can think of are when Sapp hit Chad Clifton 30 yards away from the ball and when that Packer suplexed Jim McMahon 5 seconds after he threw the ball. We are talking that level of malicious and pointless assault.

When a guy is trying to stop the ball or block for a teammate and goes cheap, I can understand it as getting carried away trying to win. Something like the Sanchez hit has no place whatsoever on the field.

[DaddyTorgo]

figures that Sanchez went to USC...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Geez, I didn't realize how bad this is getting. I heard this snippit on the radio this morning. The Chiefs have now lost 27 of their last 29 games, which is the worst 29 game stretch in NFL history. Ouch.

[Logan]

I'm late to reading Bill Simmons' power poll heading into Week 4, and this part for the Raiders (#28) killed me:

From Anthony in Philly: "Has there ever been a uniform number that so perfectly describes a player's performance as JaMarcus Russell's No. 2?" Nope. And that wasn't even the best Raiders-related e-mail this week. Vallejo, Calif., reader Steddy Long writes, "I was at the Broncos-Raiders game on Sunday. Took my son for his ninth birthday as part of his *gift.* How am I supposed to keep my little guy interested in a product like that? So he is sitting there on the ride home and finally he just says it: 'Hey, Dad, can we not have the Raider tickets be part of my birthday present next year?' Kills me."

(The Oakland Raiders … where "Just Win Baby" has given way to "Hey, Dad, can we not have the Raider tickets be part of my birthday present next year?" Al Davis, I think it's time to sell.)

[JediKooter]

YES! Way to go Norv Turner. Your 4th game in a row this season your team comes out and looks completely unprepared and listless. No, wait, that's every game you have been the head coach of the Chargers, my bad. Your teams are so unprepared that you made the Raider fans think they had a decent squad this year.

Injuries have nothing to do with how unprepaired this team looks every single game. Injuries have nothing to do with getting into the red zone 6 times and coming away with 2 field goals. Injuries have nothing to do with blown coverages in the secondary. It's you Norv Turner, YOU. You castrated the toughness that Marty had instilled in them. It is you Norv Turner that released Lorenzo Neal and now can't get a back to rush for more than 40 yards a game. It is you Norv Turner that makes the play calls in the red zone and then turn into Henry Winklers character in the Water Boy and puss out.

I can only hope Norv "The Genius" Turner keeps this up and San Diego can finally get a real head coach and not a coordinator that's only good at coordinating and can't handle all the other elements of being a head coach.

My prediction of a 9-7 (or was it 10-6?) season for the Chargers may have to be revised. 8-8 at best with more than likely a 7-9 season. Which will conform to every single team that Norv Turner has ever been the head coach of.

Hell, if I had the money, I'd offer AJ Smith to buy out Turners contract, so he can fire him and get someone in there who knows how to prepare and motivate a team in the NFL and get the best out of his players.

Anyone have Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahans number handy?

[PurdueBrad]

Glad that Troy noticed the Sanchez block. That play was incredibly cheap. I don't know if a one game suspension is out of line for it.

In the case of Favre, his teammate had the ball, and he was blocking for his teammate. The block was dirty, but it made sense in a football context.

In contrast, Sanchez was acting as a defender, and he had no chance to catch the ball carrier, so he just dove at the knees of an opposing player. The only thing he could have been trying to do there was injure the opposing player. There is no legitimate football reason to do what he did.

Part of me thinks that, had he not been a QB, he might have gotten kicked out of the game for it.

The closest examples I can think of are when Sapp hit Chad Clifton 30 yards away from the ball and when that Packer suplexed Jim McMahon 5 seconds after he threw the ball. We are talking that level of malicious and pointless assault.

When a guy is trying to stop the ball or block for a teammate and goes cheap, I can understand it as getting carried away trying to win. Something like the Sanchez hit has no place whatsoever on the field.

Yeah, I completely +1 all of this. You look at the call in the Ravens game for roughing the passer (BS and I'm a Steeler fan so I hate to agree with Ray Lewis but he's right) and then you look at what Sanchez pulls here. I expect the NFL to take some good action on this, particularly because Sanchez had NO reason to do this. He wasn't blocking for a runner, he wasn't, at this point, going to get anywhere near the ball carrier, so he just took a guy out to take him out. I hate when the NFL steps in on hits and stuff, but this seems like a good place to make an example of a cheap, dirty play.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah, I completely +1 all of this. You look at the call in the Ravens game for roughing the passer (BS and I'm a Steeler fan so I hate to agree with Ray Lewis but he's right) and then you look at what Sanchez pulls here. I expect the NFL to take some good action on this, particularly because Sanchez had NO reason to do this. He wasn't blocking for a runner, he wasn't, at this point, going to get anywhere near the ball carrier, so he just took a guy out to take him out. I hate when the NFL steps in on hits and stuff, but this seems like a good place to make an example of a cheap, dirty play.

look at the call where the Pats got called for roughing the passer because the guy's hand brushed over Flacco's face too.

[albionmoonlight]

I think that there should be a 5 yard penalty for touching the QB's helmet and a 15 yarder for hitting it.

Though they recently got rid of the 5/15 for facemask, so they seem to be moving in the opposite direction.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I think the NFL ought to allow fighting like the NHL does. Have two players drop their helmets and just go at it. Then have both guys sit out a play. This way, even if there's a BS roughing-the-passer call or something, the guy who got flagged can just release his anger by fighting with the lineman who failed to block him or something. And hey, possible momentum shift!!

Roger Goodell is a pussy.

[JS19]

Eli getting an MRI, uh oh. I know it's probably precautionary, but after watching what the Mets went through all year, and the Giants for that matter, I'm really not digging this.

New York Giants quarterback Eli Manning undergoes MRI on right leg - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4533731)

[JAG]

Orton is really an enigma.

You watch the game and see him missing wide open WR all over the place. Underthrown balls, balls 15 feet wide of the target. Balls that should be picked off and are just missed.

Then. .. you look at the numbers at the end of the game. 20-29, 243 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT.

He's still wearing a glove. I'm interested to see his accuracy after he's able to get rid of that.

There is no question this all hinges on the defense. If the defense continues to play well, hold teams in the 17 point a game range and force turnovers. . . the Broncos will be in 90% of their games, even against the tough teams.

What I find amusing is how before this game, everyone jumped up and said, this is the game Denver can prove if they are for real or not. The third ranked offense in the league. The top rushing offense in the league. A team that put up 31 points and 378 yards on the Giants. This is where you'll find out how good they really are.

Well. . . 10 points, just over 300 total yards of offense, 3 yards a carry on the ground, 5 sacks, 2 forced turnovers. . . and now people are saying "it's just the Cowboys. Romo sucks and had an off day to boot." and talking about all of the Cowboys problems on offense.

It's funny that with all of those problems on offense, Dallas had games of 462 yards, 378 yards and 449 yards heading into this game.

I have zero problems with people looking at the schedule and saying "6-10, the schedule is still too strong" Just save me the speel about the Broncos beating yet another garbage offense, ok?

For myself, the five games in this grouping have to be looked at as a whole. Go 2-3 in them and you go into the buy week 5-3 with three games left against the Raiders/Chiefs. As for the defense? I'm fairly convinced at this point. If I'm right, I promise you the Broncos don't lose 4 straight games before the bye.

Denver did a great job defensively from what I could see. Orton was terrible with his accuracy (not raw numbers, but inability to put the ball where it was supposed to go), if he had been better, he could've carved up Dallas' defense like Eli did. I have no clue if that's due to his injury or not. Romo was ok in the first half (minus the turnover, unsure if it was totally on him for pocket awareness or a bad blitz pickup or both) but ice cold after that. Overall Dallas looks like an average team to me. The offense is pretty good at moving the ball but turns the ball over at a pathetic rate. The defense is streaky and doesn't force a lot of turnovers. They didn't change the team much from last season which is why it looks a lot like last season, except improved special teams. I don't expect them to be in the playoff hunt unless they suffer an abnormally low amount of injuries.

[RomaGoth]

Romo was ok in the first half (minus the turnover, unsure if it was totally on him for pocket awareness or a bad blitz pickup or both) but ice cold after that.

Joe Buck actually mentioned how Romo looked out of sorts and was having a poor pocket presence day (or something similar, don't remember the exact quote).

You know it's a bad day at the office when JB says something.

[Butter]

With the Broncos beating an actual team on a non-fluke play, I am willing to give them some credit. But they have a long way to go still.

Their defense is miles beyond last year's though. So much better, it's almost hard to believe.

[Lathum]

Eli getting an MRI, uh oh. I know it's probably precautionary, but after watching what the Mets went through all year, and the Giants for that matter, I'm really not digging this.

New York Giants quarterback Eli Manning undergoes MRI on right leg - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4533731)

From what I hear they aren't worried that it is an achilles injury since he walked off the field.

Even if he sits next week I have the confidence Carr can get it done against the raiders.

[jbergey22]

From what I hear they aren't worried that it is an achilles injury since he walked off the field.

Even if he sits next week I have the confidence Carr can get it done against the raiders.

Kind of off topic but I have been wondering this. As a Giant fan would you rather have Orton as your QB or Jay Cutler? I ask this for a reason and I will wait to respond.

[Lathum]

Kind of off topic but I have been wondering this. As a Giant fan would you rather have Orton as your QB or Jay Cutler? I ask this for a reason and I will wait to respond.

Cutler.

[Logan]

Just saw on another board that Ochocinco went on twitter after the game and invited fans to meet him at a local place for dinner, with the bill on him of course.

I love the guy.

[JS19]

Just saw on another board that Ochocinco went on twitter after the game and invited fans to meet him at a local place for dinner, with the bill on him of course.

I love the guy.

Awesome. I thought I remember reading/watching something along the lines of him saying, "I'm gonna get a little crazy this Sunday (in regards to the breast cancer awareness), probably be fined by the NFL". Did I miss something?

[stevew]

Yeah, I like Chad a lot. Unless he's playing my team.