ping: Cam

[JPhillips]

WARNING! Literary Criticism Ahead!

Be careful what you ask for, Cam. I thought it would be better to set this aside from the Obama thread.

Before I explain why I believe a conservative comedy show would be difficult, I need to provide a bit of historical and theoretical foundations for comedy. The typical comic plot of the Romans and Commedia del’ Arte is the familiar boy gets girl story. Generally in these plays a young man is enamored with a young woman that he can’t have due to his lack of social standing and money. Oftentimes a powerful father figure, either that of the man or woman, stands in the way of the young man’s desires. The young man sets out to overcome the obstacles in his path and does eventually succeed in bypassing the father figure and attaining the love of the young woman. That basic plot has been at the heart of comedy for several centuries, and while it has been modified (perhaps a young woman is the comic hero or the object of desire is an animal or inanimate object) the same structure remains true today. (If you’d like more info on this see Northrop Frye’s Anatomy of Criticism)

Why is this important? The standard comic plot is a tale of the overturning of the traditional power structure, it’s why I tell my classes that comedy is inherently subversive. The young and powerless somehow succeed in overcoming the desires of the rich and powerful, and the audience is left believing that this revolution is indeed for the best. Tradition is cast aside for change. (Yes, I used that term purposefully.)

So you may ask, if this is true why do I laugh at conservative leaning jokes? What I’m talking about is not humor, but structure of the comic narrative. There are numerous examples of humor that favors tradition and the ruling classes, ethnic jokes of nearly every variety would fit this category, but a larger narrative or story needs to be present for there to be comedy. This challenge of constructing the comic narrative is where a conservative comedy show would have troubles.

Look at The Daily Show. It’s a sketch comedy show with little connection from episode to episode, but even though tenuous it does still have a comic narrative. The Daily Show is about attacking the powerful and the audience believes that those attacks are indeed just. Whether you like the show or not, the message being conveyed over the life of the show is that the young and powerless are smarter and more worthy of being in charge than those currently in power, be it politicians, media, religious leaders, etc. That larger message is what keeps viewers tuning in, regardless of the particular story, the message remains the same. Of course it also suffers from the same problem as any comedy in that the people who don’t believe in the replacement of the current system with the new system that is represented don’t see the show as effective, or even humorous.

This is where a conservative comedy series is going to run into troubles. Conservative political thought is about keeping in place the systems that are there currently. Instead of seeing tradition as something to be cast aside in favor of change, conservatives believe in holding on to what has a history of effectiveness. A conservative themed comedy show can have successful segments, but I believe the clash between what it means to be comedic and what it means to be conservative makes it very difficult to achieve success long term. It’s hard to build comedy around “let’s keep things the way they are.”

I haven’t given it much thought, but I’m willing to believe that a libertarian themed show has a much better chance of success in our current environment because it is also currently youth driven and advocates casting aside those in power in favor of change, but I haven’t thought enough about it to go any further.

[CamEdwards]

Thanks JPhillips! I'd definitely agree that a libertarian-themed comedy show is going to have a better chance of success than a conservative-leaning comedy show, though perhaps not for the same reasons as you.

I'll have to ponder this some more, but I really appreciate your thoughts on this. I'll respond at length, but it may not be today... it's my wife's birthday and I'm a little consumed by that and work at the moment.

[CamEdwards]

Okay, so I've had some time to think about this.

First of all, the traditional power structure stopped being “conservative” sometime in the 1960s, and it has only accelerated in the intervening decades. Is academia "conservative"? Is the media "conservative"? Even among America's top earners, you'll find plenty of Democrats.

I'd also disagree that conservative means "status quo". I think you'd be hard pressed to find many conservatives that think a winning message these days is "keep things exactly as they are now". True conservatives recognize that change is sometimes necessary, but it shouldn't be undertaken for light and transient reasons, and certainly not with the expectation that all change will be for the best.

I think conservative comedy has largely failed because conservatives who try to be funny don't do a very good job of being subversive. It's easier to go after Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan, or to make the easy joke about Pelosi or Barney Frank rather than digging for the subversive humor. I still think it's possible for a conservative comedy show to make it, but you're right that "let's keep things the way they are" won't do it. "Look at how they've fucked things up", however, might work. :)

[lungs]

First of all, the traditional power structure stopped being “conservative” sometime in the 1960s, and it has only accelerated in the intervening decades. Is academia "conservative"? Is the media "conservative"? Even among America's top earners, you'll find plenty of Democrats.

I'd also disagree that conservative means "status quo". I think you'd be hard pressed to find many conservatives that think a winning message these days is "keep things exactly as they are now".


Nah, they just want to turn the hands of time back to when they were the traditional power structure :)

[JPhillips]

Okay, so I've had some time to think about this.

First of all, the traditional power structure stopped being “conservative” sometime in the 1960s, and it has only accelerated in the intervening decades. Is academia "conservative"? Is the media "conservative"? Even among America's top earners, you'll find plenty of Democrats.

I'd also disagree that conservative means "status quo". I think you'd be hard pressed to find many conservatives that think a winning message these days is "keep things exactly as they are now". True conservatives recognize that change is sometimes necessary, but it shouldn't be undertaken for light and transient reasons, and certainly not with the expectation that all change will be for the best.

I think conservative comedy has largely failed because conservatives who try to be funny don't do a very good job of being subversive. It's easier to go after Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan, or to make the easy joke about Pelosi or Barney Frank rather than digging for the subversive humor. I still think it's possible for a conservative comedy show to make it, but you're right that "let's keep things the way they are" won't do it. "Look at how they've fucked things up", however, might work. :)

You're being too specific to current politics. The overall shape of the U.S. government is conservative as it hasn't changed much in 200 years. The same with academia in that how universities are structured is still based on nineteenth century models.

You might be right, however, if conservatives could challenge the larger structure of society as opposed to current political leaders. I think that's what The Daily Show does that drives it's comic narrative. Sure, Stewart supports Obama, but that alone wouldn't make for much of a comedy narrative. His narrative is based on the idea of attacking and eventually displacing the power structure. The irony with comedy is that even if he and his audience were to succeed, the resulting power structure would become the object of attack for a new generation of younger, wittier people.

I'd argue that while a lot of conservative comedy has been bad, there is indeed a contradiction between the tenets of conservatism and the radical change sought through a comic narrative.