Bears into the cave?

[Sgran]

Okay, Bears fans, what do you do at this point? No first, no second, no line (maybe a decent right tackle going forward), a Hall of Fame defensive line coach (;)), an aging D, identical 5' 6" wide-outs, and a pocket passer with no pocket whose body has just aged a dog year. In an FOFC league I'd leave this team on a doorstep. Any ideas?

[Cringer]

Move the Bears to LA and re-name them the Pansies. Take this with a grain of salt though, since I am a Packer fan.

[Julio Riddols]

The Bears need a full rebuild. They have nothing of note anywhere and their formerly good defense is injury prone and old. They have a QB they can probably build around, given a major talent boost at the skill positions, but would probably be better served by finding a new arm to groom or trading Cutler while he has maybe a little value left. The lack of skilled WR has probably hurt Cutler (caused him to force more balls) as much as his line and his own poor decision making.

They need to move Hester back to returning kicks and demote him to 3rd or 4th WR, grab a couple top flight WR like the Giants did this past draft, then build on the O and D lines. It looks like a few years before they return to contention.

Do they even have any picks in the first 2 rounds of next years draft?

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

they can't trade him. if shanahan ends up in dc and snyders willing to give you what you paid for him then yeah, otherwise...

1. hire shanahan
-you already pushed your chips in with cutler.he's shanahans boy, they've had success, you need a coach anyway.

2. trade/package anyone not named cutler for o line help

3. sign every free agent available including t.o.
-it's an uncapped year and you're not getting better through the draft

4. sit on your draft positions
-don't do anything stupid. you made your bed.

and after all that you're still probably looking at 6-10. but they key is preserving the investment in cutler. another bad season and his mental game might not be salvageable.

[Coffee Warlord]

It's all irrelevant until they axe Lovie & Angelo.

Which I still don't believe the McCaskey's are willing to eat the money required to do so (AND sign a legitimate coach). Which means 1 more year of this mess.

But, aside from that.

1) Beg, borrow, and steal an o-line.
2) Beg, borrow, and steal legitimate WR's. Don't even need a burner here, we need a big tall WR who catches everything thrown his way.
3) Return Hester to returns.

Essentially, invest every possible thing you can into the offense this coming year. Defense is going to suck, but you can't fix both sides of the ball in one year. Get the offense clicking with some solid talent/systems behind your real QB, and then get the defense firing.

[cubboyroy1826]

I would say Lovie and Angelo need to go. Lovie has lost the team and just cannot develop talent. If the talent is no good which it may be then Angelo is at fault and must go as well. A 2nd rounder for Gaines Adams was just plain stupid. The defense is old we cannot seem to draft any secondary help, our O line is a siv, there is very little to nor receiving talent (not sure on this one because Cutler doesn't have time and down more three scores or more in games they keep throwing Cutler out there to get his brains beat in. Here are some things i would do.

1. Fire Lovie and Angelo
2. Bring in Shannahan or Cowher along with a new GM. I would not give either of them total personnel control.
3. Trade Urlacher - he is a big baby and cannot deal with someone on the team getting more press than him.

There is a lot more that needs to be done but that is where i would start.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I would recommend that they get Cutler some help by drafting wide receivers. Please, do this. I know the Bears have no first or second (MARINELLI WILL MAKE YOU A STAR, GAINES ADAMS!) round picks this year and they may not have a first round pick next year, but they should totally burn some early draft picks on wide receivers and give Cutler the weapons he so apparently needs. Building from the outisde in, is the way forward Bears' fans.

You can patch your o-line in free agency and Marinelli could mold any old bums (preferably old bums that once played for him in Tampa) into defensive line studs.

Do this and be succesfull!!!

[Kodos]

Bring in Matt Millen as a consultant. That dude gets things DONE.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Bring in Matt Millen as a consultant. That dude gets things DONE.

Another solid suggestion. Just listen to him on college football Saturdays and on the NFL Network games. The man simply knows. his. shit. No one who can so astutely call a game could be that bad.

[bulletsponge]

I would recommend that they get Cutler some help by drafting wide receivers. Please, do this. I know the Bears have no first or second (MARINELLI WILL MAKE YOU A STAR, GAINES ADAMS!) round picks this year and they may not have a first round pick next year, but they should totally burn some early draft picks on wide receivers and give Cutler the weapons he so apparently needs. Building from the outisde in, is the way forward Bears' fans.

You can patch your o-line in free agency and Marinelli could mold any old bums (preferably old bums that once played for him in Tampa) into defensive line studs.

Do this and be succesfull!!!

Yes the Detroit Lions way!

as a Vikings fan i approve of this method

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I would recommend that they get Cutler some help by drafting wide receivers. Please, do this. I know the Bears have no first or second (MARINELLI WILL MAKE YOU A STAR, GAINES ADAMS!) round picks this year and they may not have a first round pick next year, but they should totally burn some early draft picks on wide receivers and give Cutler the weapons he so apparently needs. Building from the outisde in, is the way forward Bears' fans.

You can patch your o-line in free agency and Marinelli could mold any old bums (preferably old bums that once played for him in Tampa) into defensive line studs.

Do this and be succesfull!!!

That is hilarious! Matt Millen may have made a blueprint for any rebuilding team... all they have to do is the opposite of what he did! Even San Fran dumped the black outline thingy off their jerseys! :lol:

[revrew]

As a Broncos fan whose wife follows the Bears religiously, I've seen both sides of Cutler, and I disagree with the assessment that he's a pocket passer.

In Denver, he was FAR more successful as a roll-out passer. True, he doesn't make many plays with his feet, but his rhythm is better when he's on the move, and he has the arm strength to throw from any position.

What he CAN'T do is stare down a pass rush in his face and still make a good read and get the ball out in a timely fashion. That was evident vs. the Vikes, when, after the 92-yard kick return he was sacked, like, 3 times straight. His receivers were open for the easy TD, but as soon as he had to dodge that first pass rusher, he was worthless, panic-blinders on.

What do Bears need to do?
#1 - Get an O-coordinator. They haven't had one in over a decade, but still, you think they'd put some brains behind the Cutler experiment.

The team has several other holes, notably O-line, WR, and safety, but just scheming for the (new) face of the franchise would be smart, don't you think?

[JediKooter]

Bring in a quarterback coach that can do two things with Cutler:

1. Get into his thick skull that, yea you do have a strong arm, but, you need to be accurate and smart
2. Teach him how to throw when his feet are moving

After getting to watch Cutler for at least two games each year when he was with the Broncos, I knew the Chargers would have a good game if at the very least, they got his feet moving. Didn't have to sack him, just flush him out of the pocket. It was always a treat watching him throw into triple coverage and think that his arm strength would get it to the reciever untouched. He was always good for at least a couple of picks if they did that to him. I see he has not changed one bit since going to Chicago.

Granted, his offensive line isn't as good as it was in Denver, but, it's still the same 'ol Cutler that was in Denver.

[Neuqua]

We're too cheap to fire Lovie/Angelo so I won't put that into consideration.

Basically we need to use the limited resources we have to try to invest in our lines. Primarily offensive but we also need to find a DL that can get to the Quarterback (I'm assuming Adawale is gone after the year.) Go ahead and cut Tommie Harris, he's done.

[Atocep]

Receivers aren't a major issue right now. They're an issue, but Devin has actually be a solid-very good receiver this year. Knox has shown some good potential. Bennett would be a very reliable 3rd down receiver out of the slot. A group of Devin, a possession receiver, Knox, Bennett would be very good.

The offensive line has to be improved. The most important unit on the field is the OLine and the bears simply don't have one. Pace is terrible. Williams has looked like a bust. Kruetz is now a below average Center being paid like a pro bowler. Omiyale may have been the worst starting offensive lineman in the NFL. Garza has been the lone bright stop, but only because he hasn't sucked, not because he's played particularly well.

Blow the defense up. There's just too many guys under-performing on that side of the ball and eating up a ton of cap space. Combine that with the holes that are there and it doesn't make sense to me to hold onto the guys that can play for a couple years and let them grow old and eat up cap space as you fix things.

I know it's the McCaskeys, but Lovie could very well be putting them in a position where they have no choice but to fire him. The team is simply getting worse and the defense has regressed with him taking over playcalling this year. If Lovie is fired I'd look for them to clean house with Angelo as well and use that opportunity to go after Shanahan or Cowher and offer them personnel control as well.

[Neuqua]

I just don't see them firing Lovie/Angelo though. Eating up that money alone is going to lead us to hiring some random coordinator instead of one of the big name coaches.

I agree for the most part on the WRs. Our guys aren't world beaters by any stretch but there's some glimpse of potential. I would focus on fixing that line in front of Jay, and if that gets patched up, then possibly consider a good WR if there's a match.

[Abe Sargent]

They need to move Hester back to returning kicks and demote him to 3rd or 4th WR, grab a couple top flight WR like the Giants did this past draft, then build on the O and D lines. It looks like a few years before they return to contention.



Do you realize how hard it is to build the O and D lines with only 3rd rouneders and later? The big bodies go quickly, and it is hard to find good, reliable lineman after round 2. You can occasionally, but you wouldn;t want to rely on it.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

crying poverty is bs. how much money does not having to sign 1st & 2nd's in consecutive years save you? i'd imagine it'd cover the remaining costs on the hc and gm.

the hester thing is a disaster. they paid him top tier wr money based on his return skills and now he's neither a wr nor a returner. i'd trade him for whatever you could get for him. you've got knox.

forte/hester to hou for andre johnson would be nice.

[Kodos]

Why in god's name would Houston ever make that trade? ;)

[DataKing]

crying poverty is bs. how much money does not having to sign 1st & 2nd's in consecutive years save you? i'd imagine it'd cover the remaining costs on the hc and gm.

the hester thing is a disaster. they paid him top tier wr money based on his return skills and now he's neither a wr nor a returner. i'd trade him for whatever you could get for him. you've got knox.

forte/hester to hou for andre johnson would be nice.

It's not about crying poverty. It's about knowing the McCaskeys and how they spend their money. They are loath to do something that they interpret as "wasteful," whether or not it would actually be good for the team. I'm not saying their Scrooge either...they spend to the cap or close to it every year. But I find it unlikely that they'll fire Lovie and eat the contract...Ted Phillips is an accountant, not a football guy

Forte + Hester to Houston for Johnson would be a godsend, but Houston would be damn fools to do it.

[Atocep]

the hester thing is a disaster. they paid him top tier wr money based on his return skills and now he's neither a wr nor a returner. i'd trade him for whatever you could get for him. you've got knox.



I'm calling Bullshit here. Hester has been good as a receiver this year. I'd be a lot better if the line gave him time to actually get open downfield.

[Atocep]

Forte + Hester to Houston for Johnson would be a godsend, but Houston would be damn fools to do it.

I wouldn't even consider this if I'm the bears. Last year with an average line Forte was arguably the most complete back in the NFL. Hester is a solid receiver. Creating another problem to get an upgrade at one of the least important positions there is would be insane.

[DanGarion]

Move the Bears to LA and re-name them the Pansies. Take this with a grain of salt though, since I am a Packer fan.

And then trade Dickerson for a ton of picks... wait.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i just said it was nice. like trading the entire defense to cle for joe thomas.

knox=hester.

[DataKing]

I wouldn't even consider this if I'm the bears. Last year with an average line Forte was arguably the most complete back in the NFL. Hester is a solid receiver. Creating another problem to get an upgrade at one of the least important positions there is would be insane.

Personally I feel that running backs, with a very few exceptions (A.P. for example), are replaceable. Elite Wide Receivers, on the other hand, are a much more precious commodity (and I personally think Johnson is the best WR on the planet right now).

[Atocep]

Personally I feel that running backs, with a very few exceptions (A.P. for example), are replaceable. Elite Wide Receivers, on the other hand, are a much more precious commodity (and I personally think Johnson is the best WR on the planet right now).

I would take an elite RB over 2 elite receivers. Forte is already one of the best blocking backs in the league, catches the ball well, and is a very good runner. The only knock on him is the lack of elite speed. Give me him and Devin at receiver over any receiver in football right now.

Devin catches a very high number passes thrown his was and he would be a deep threat if he had time to get downfield before Cutler was either on his back or had a defender in his face. Devin is not an elite receiver, but he's not far from pro bowl caliber either.

[RainMaker]

I think they need to blow it up. Lovie and Angelo need to go and some fresh blood needs to be brought in. I'd start with giving control of the organization to someone like Parcells or Cowher. They don't need to coach, just bring in the right football minds to run the show.

As for personnel moves:

1) Release Tommie Harris and Nathan Vasher. Harris is Mark Prior and Vasher was a bad re-signing.

2) Try and trade good vets for draft picks. Lance Briggs and Charles Tillman are the two I think that would have some value to a team. Really like them both but at their ages, I don't think they can be in the long term plans.

3) Move Hester back to returning kicks and a slot 3rd WR. I'd actually be for trading him if anyone will take him at that price.

4) Land the best free agent OL on the market under 28 years old.

5) Draft WR and OL in the draft. Also try to acquire a solid backup RB that offers a change of pace.

6) Continue to bring in young players through the draft, acquire picks when you can for veterans, and play the young guys.

[RainMaker]

I'm calling Bullshit here. Hester has been good as a receiver this year. I'd be a lot better if the line gave him time to actually get open downfield.
Hester is not that good. He frequently runs the wrong routes and has been responsible for a handful of Cutler interceptions this year. Has a lot of trouble with physical corners. I think he could be a solid #2 in this league but would probably be better suited for a slot position and playing the role of a Percy Harvin type in the offense. He's not a #1 WR which the Bears are paying him to be. He's a guy you try to get the ball a few times in a game and see if he can make a play, not a guy you count on for big first down pickups.

[RainMaker]

I wouldn't even consider this if I'm the bears. Last year with an average line Forte was arguably the most complete back in the NFL. Hester is a solid receiver. Creating another problem to get an upgrade at one of the least important positions there is would be insane.
This is a passing league. Forte was good last year but not great. He only averaged 3.9 yards a carry which is near the bottom of starting RBs. He doesn't have breakaway speed and seems to have actually lost a step this season. Andre Johnson can change a game, Matt Forte can't.

[miked]

My buddy at UM told me that initially they wanted Hester to be a WR, but he was too dumb to learn routes and frequently screwed up. So they put him at PR/KR where all he had to do was catch a ball while stationary, and run.

[RainMaker]

The Bears did try him at corner a little and he couldn't figure out the defensive schemes.

[Atocep]

This is a passing league. Forte was good last year but not great. He only averaged 3.9 yards a carry which is near the bottom of starting RBs. He doesn't have breakaway speed and seems to have actually lost a step this season. Andre Johnson can change a game, Matt Forte can't.

It is a passing league, but the drop-off from a guy like Forte to an back that can't pass block, or can't catch the ball out of the backfield, or isn't a good runner is much larger than the drop-off from Andre Johnson to Devin Hester.

Running backs are replaceable. Elite backs aren't. Forte is an elite back playing with a terrible offensive line. YPC don't tell the entire story. From '01-'07 Tomlinson was the best back in the NFL and still averaged under 4ypc twice in that span. Pass catching is the most underrated aspect of being a running back and pass blocking is right behind it. Forte is outstanding in both of those areas.

Receivers are replaceable whether they are elite or not. They're nice to have, but it is still the least important position on either side of the ball.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i couldn't disagree more.

[RainMaker]

We disagree greatly on Forte. He's an average back in my opinion that got a lot of yards last year because the Bears had no options on offense. He's not quick, not fast, and doesn't break a lot of tackles. An NFL starter, but not an elite back.

[Atocep]

It's rare to see a rookie back as assured as Forte, who had the starting job fall into his lap after Cedric Benson's summer indiscretions and made it his own. From Week 1, Forte ran, received, and blocked like a veteran back; only Frank Gore had a higher percentage of his team's touches. he was more dependable than most veteran backs that get the monicker, as he didn't register a single blown block and had no fumble issues to speak of. The one negative was that he wore down quickly following 73 carries in the first 3 weeks, but he was used more judiciously by Lovie Smith thereafter and averaged 4.3 yards per carry after the Week 8 bye. He lacks the top-end speed needed to be an elite back, but he has everything else you'd want. The best compliment we can give Forte? The closest skill set we can think of to his is Emmitt Smith's. Forte is that special of a player

That's from the 2009 Football Outsiders almanac.

[Honolulu_Blue]

That's from the 2009 Football Outsiders almanac.

I wonder what the 2010 Football Outsiders almanac entry will read like.

[Atocep]

I wonder what the 2010 Football Outsiders almanac entry will read like.

I'm guessing something along the lines of: "Forte played for the bears..."

[DataKing]

The more I think about it, the more I think it is really difficult to get an accurate read on Forte's abilities for one reason: the awful o-line he is playing behind this year. It's really difficult to tell whether he's a legit back or a one-year-wonder.

[RainMaker]

You have to watch him play. He doesn't hit holes hard and when he has had open space he gets caught from behind. The other backs on the team are averaging 7.6 yards a carry.

[bulletsponge]

Why in god's name would Houston ever make that trade? ;)

if Al Davis took over houston then......

[Atocep]

You have to watch him play. He doesn't hit holes hard and when he has had open space he gets caught from behind. The other backs on the team are averaging 7.6 yards a carry.

I've watched Forte play plenty. He's grown hesitant as the year has gone on, but I really can't put blame on him at this point. Regardless, he's still the the best pass blocker on the team (lineman included) and he's still going to put up around 1,400 total yards because of how good he is as a receiver.

[jbergey22]

Change of offensive cordinators for one. Secondly they need to start over with their offensive line. Instead of drafting the "Lovie" offensive lineman they need to get bigger and stronger so they can start getting the tough rushing yards. Thirdly they need to work off of their run game by rolling Cutler out where he is much better outside the pocket. They also need to take away some of his "freedom" so he isnt forcing the ball ESPECIALLY near the goaline.

Finally their secondary(most notably the safetys) are very poor so they need to find some talent back there.

They need to get their identity back most of all. A Chicago Bear team shouldnt be passing the ball 40+ times out of spread offenses. The Bears had a lot of success with defense and running the ball over their history and they need to start with fixing that part of their team. Its hard to build an offense around the pass when playing half your games in the windy city.

They should trade Hester IMO because the Bears dont properly use him anyway. Maybe they could get a 2nd round pick for him. If they want to keep him at WR they should use him like the Panthers use Steve Smith and they need to have him returning kicks. He is one of the biggest weapons in the NFL when used right.

I agree with the post above that it is a great time to trade Urlacher. Its tough to shine as a MLB when the rest of the defense has holes.

Im undecided on Forte at this time. I thought he was a servicable back but as this season goes on I wonder if he isnt more of a 3rd down back type. He just doesnt seem explosive. Steven Jackson has a crap line in front of him yet he still plays like a stud.

[stevew]

There's maybe 3 guys in the league of Andre Johnson. There's probably 20-30 backs as good as Forte.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

it's moot anyway because it'll never happen. johnson was rumored to be unhappy in hou earlier this year but every wr in the league is unhappy. even if he sits out i can't see hou trading him. that said, there's not a player on the bears roster i wouldn't trade for him.

they have to get shanahan. you bring in the wrong guy and they clash and in 2 years cutler will be qbing for the raiders and you'll own the number 3 spot on the worst trades of all time list behind herschel and ricky.

[RainMaker]

My only problem with Shannahan is he seems to be a more run-oriented coach when I think this team needs someone pass oriented. I think the league is shifting toward more forward thinking minds and I don't want to get Shottenheimer'd like the Chargers did.

[RainMaker]

I've watched Forte play plenty. He's grown hesitant as the year has gone on, but I really can't put blame on him at this point. Regardless, he's still the the best pass blocker on the team (lineman included) and he's still going to put up around 1,400 total yards because of how good he is as a receiver.
That's fine, but Andre Johnson is one of the best receivers in the game and capable of changing one on his own. Forte is a solid NFL starter and will have his ups and downs, but he's not someone who's going to make big plays and change games. He'll take what the defense gives him.

I also look back at past Super Bowl champs. You have to go back to 2000 before you really have an elite RB on a team that won. It's a passing league and I think Andre Johnson has a much bigger impact than Matt Forte who still requires a decent offensive line.

[RainMaker]

Change of offensive cordinators for one. Secondly they need to start over with their offensive line. Instead of drafting the "Lovie" offensive lineman they need to get bigger and stronger so they can start getting the tough rushing yards. Thirdly they need to work off of their run game by rolling Cutler out where he is much better outside the pocket. They also need to take away some of his "freedom" so he isnt forcing the ball ESPECIALLY near the goaline.

Finally their secondary(most notably the safetys) are very poor so they need to find some talent back there.

They need to get their identity back most of all. A Chicago Bear team shouldnt be passing the ball 40+ times out of spread offenses. The Bears had a lot of success with defense and running the ball over their history and they need to start with fixing that part of their team. Its hard to build an offense around the pass when playing half your games in the windy city.

They should trade Hester IMO because the Bears dont properly use him anyway. Maybe they could get a 2nd round pick for him. If they want to keep him at WR they should use him like the Panthers use Steve Smith and they need to have him returning kicks. He is one of the biggest weapons in the NFL when used right.

I agree with the post above that it is a great time to trade Urlacher. Its tough to shine as a MLB when the rest of the defense has holes.

Im undecided on Forte at this time. I thought he was a servicable back but as this season goes on I wonder if he isnt more of a 3rd down back type. He just doesnt seem explosive. Steven Jackson has a crap line in front of him yet he still plays like a stud.

I think that's the problem though. This mentality that we have to "play Chicago Bears football". That style of play has passed the NFL by. The rules are set to benefit the passing game. Sure the weather is tough at times, but it's also tough out in New England.

The Bears need to stop with the stereotype and hire a coach that will implement a scheme that will win games. Not make cute slogans for t-shirts.

[Atocep]

I also look back at past Super Bowl champs. You have to go back to 2000 before you really have an elite RB on a team that won. It's a passing league and I think Andre Johnson has a much bigger impact than Matt Forte who still requires a decent offensive line.

How many elite receivers have won it in that time? Marvin Harrison?

[Atocep]

I think that's the problem though. This mentality that we have to "play Chicago Bears football". That style of play has passed the NFL by. The rules are set to benefit the passing game. Sure the weather is tough at times, but it's also tough out in New England.

The Bears need to stop with the stereotype and hire a coach that will implement a scheme that will win games. Not make cute slogans for t-shirts.

This I agree with 100%. Playing a certain way because a franchise has always played that way is idiotic. Of all teams, the Bears need to do something different considering that they've been a generally terrible franchise for 40 years.

[RainMaker]

How many elite receivers have won it in that time? Marvin Harrison?
But almost all those teams had better QBs than the Bears. Unless you have a world class defense, you have to throw the ball to win in the Super Bowl. Having a great WR makes a mediocre QB look much better.

[Atocep]

But almost all those teams had better QBs than the Bears. Unless you have a world class defense, you have to throw the ball to win in the Super Bowl.

I haven't argued with you at all on this. I agree that it is a passing league.

However...

Having a great WR makes a mediocre QB look much better.

I disagree strongly here. WRs are very QB dependent.

The top WRs in the NFL this year:

Sidney Rice
Reggie Wayne
Vincent Jackson
Colston
Fitzgerald
Welker
Moss
Driver

What do they have in common? Favre, Manning, Rivers, Brees, Warner, Brady, Brady, Rodgers.

How much has Calvin Johnson helped those QBs he's played with in Detroit? Hell, the Lions entire strategy revolved around receivers and they still couldn't get a QB to look decent there. How was Roddy White before Matt Ryan arrived?

[jbergey22]

I think that's the problem though. This mentality that we have to "play Chicago Bears football". That style of play has passed the NFL by. The rules are set to benefit the passing game. Sure the weather is tough at times, but it's also tough out in New England.

The Bears need to stop with the stereotype and hire a coach that will implement a scheme that will win games. Not make cute slogans for t-shirts.

Well you were playing Chicago Bear football(strong defense, strong running game) prior to this year and made it to a super bowl and won a majority of your games within the past 5 years. The Bengals changed their philosophy this year and are doing quite well. The Pats have been winning SB's because of strong defense and smart QB. Its not like they are playing home games in January putting up huge offensive numbers. In fact in 07 they ran into some bad whether in the later weeks and had their lowest scoring outputs of the season. Id agree that the NFL rules benefit the passing game however when the weather changes you win with defense and a run game unless you plan on getting to the Super Bowl on the road.

[jbergey22]

I disagree strongly here. WRs are very QB dependent.

The top WRs in the NFL this year:

Sidney Rice


True, Rice was just a talent until Favre got there. He was basically a non factor.

Terrell Owens is just crap this year because he has no QB.... The 2nd greatest WR in history(Moss) sucked balls with the crappy Raiders.

[Julio Riddols]

Do you realize how hard it is to build the O and D lines with only 3rd rouneders and later? The big bodies go quickly, and it is hard to find good, reliable lineman after round 2. You can occasionally, but you wouldn;t want to rely on it.

Thats why I said it would take a few years to do this. The Bears are only going to get worse for a couple years more than likely, unless they stumble upon a ton of gold nuggets late in the next draft.

Cinci has made a pretty solid case for having a non-stud O and D-line and making it work.. Their O-line has 3 undrafted guys starting I believe, and defensively they have a bunch of mid-late rounders who play a lot- (Peko, Fanene, M.Johnson, Rucker, Geathers, and castoff Tank Johnson) So it can be done, but I doubt it happens in anything short of at least 3 years of building.

Hester would be great out of the slot, on gadget plays, and going back to returning kicks/punts, but there is really not a lot else to work with and no real threat who garners double coverage and helps open up the field. Incredible special teams play can make a mediocre team much harder to beat too, so maybe they get a punter with a golden leg like Lechler from Oakland.. His leg alone is worth a win or two a year I would be willing to bet..

[TroyF]

atocep,

I don't think that entry from Football Outsiders did much to help your case. Read the words carefully again. He's not an elite back. (it's hilarious they say that and then compare him to Emmitt Smith. Their own rankings have Forte as the 38th best running back on runs last year)

Forte is the 35th rated running back on runs in the NFL this year. He's behind Larry Johnson. Think about that.

Receiving? He's ok, but nothing special there either. 41 catches, under 9 yards a pop. 3 catches of 20 yards or more all year. (with a long of 37)

Johnson? He is an elite WR.

As for how many elite WR have won, let's think about this:

1) Last years Super Bowl featured Larry Fitzgerals and Boldin vs. Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. (all four are upper echelon WR)

2) The year before was Moss vs. Plaxico. (ask Eli how important Plax was)

But even if none of them had won a title or got there, that is irrelevant. Forte isn't an elite RB and he never will be. If he's doing this at 23 years of age, I shudder to think what he's going to do when he really wears down.

Johnson gives you an elite WR for the next five years to go with your strong armed QB. Forte can be replaced with a fourth round pick.

Your problem is the Texans wouldn't even consider the deal. They'd laugh at you. So you'll get your way and keep Forte. Just do me a favor and don't be shocked when the next coach comes in and has Forte as a 12 carry or less a game back within two years.

[TroyF]

dola:

One last note, Forte is really bad this year. I know the Bears offensive line sucks, but Forte isn't helping them at all.

He had 121 yards against Detroit. 90 against Cleveland. That's 40% of his rushing yards on the year in two games against two of the worst teams in the league. He's rushed for an average of 37 yards in the other 9 games. Forte has rushed for 75 yards or more in a game three times in his last 16 outings.

I'm sorry, but forget elite. The guy isn't even average at running the ball. He's a third down pass catching RB. I don't want to make it seem like I hate the guy, I don't. But he's just not a very good RB. (and please don't tell me it's all the lines fault. If he can't be even partially effective behind the line, he's in trouble, that line isn't getting better tomorrow)

[Blackadar]

Is anyone really surprised? Cutler hasn't won a damn thing in his life. He puts up great stats and looks good doing it, but doesn't have that winning instinct. He couldn't win at Vandy, couldn't win at Denver and hasn't won at Chicago. I think he's a good QB, but I don't think he's a winner.

I think the Bears should fire Lovie Smith and hire Bill Cowher if they could get him. I think he'd fit quite well with that team. He's used to dealing with odd weapons (Slash, Randle El, Hines Ward) and could make good use of Hester. He'd toughen the line and install an aggressive defense that would try to make plays rather than the read-and-react defense the Bears seem to have become.

[Sgran]

yeah, bring in an established coach, you know, like Dusty Baker or Lou Pinella... Oh wait, wrong sport.

But seriously, I'm pretty sure every Bears fan would love to have Cowher (maybe even Shanahan), but for whatever reason successful coaches in Chicago have been untested: Phil Jackson, Ozzie, Ditka.... um... Halas?

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah, bring in an established coach, you know, like Dusty Baker or Lou Pinella... Oh wait, wrong sport.

But seriously, I'm pretty sure every Bears fan would love to have Cowher (maybe even Shanahan), but for whatever reason successful coaches in Chicago have been untested: Phil Jackson, Ozzie, Ditka.... um... Halas?

call me crazy but i'm not sold on phil jackson as an effective "coach." he's a lucky coach in my book. very very lucky.

wandered into the most revolutionary basketball player in a generation - check

brought into a situation with the "heir apparent" to the "most revolutionary player in a generation" and a second "once in a generation" type player - check

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Mike Brown would like to disagree.

[DaddyTorgo]

Mike Brown would like to disagree.

or maybe lebron isn't quite that transcendent. or mike brown is worse than phil jackson (that still doesn't make phil jackson a great coach)

[DaddyTorgo]

idk...not trying to shit on phil jackson too hardcore...just not sure how much influence a coach has in basketball really...particularly with guys who are so transcendent in a 1v1 game that they don't need designed plays or complicated offenses to score.

[Fidatelo]

Everyone is focusing too much on 'skill positions' (RB, WR) as the fix to the Bears. The real fix, as it is for almost any bad team, is on the O-line.

Screw Andre Johnson, Matt Forte, or even Jesus if he's wearing a number in the 80's. I want 4 kick-ass hogs that can give my mediocre-to-average 'skill' guys the time and space they need to succeed.

[flere-imsaho]

Everyone is focusing too much on 'skill positions' (RB, WR) as the fix to the Bears. The real fix, as it is for almost any bad team, is on the O-line.

+1

If Cutler got more than 1 second a snap to throw the ball, and if there were actually some holes for Forte to run into, this is a completely different team. And if they had some good playcalling on top of that, this is a playoff team (though with still a leaky defense).

[whomario]

idk...not trying to shit on phil jackson too hardcore...just not sure how much influence a coach has in basketball really...particularly with guys who are so transcendent in a 1v1 game that they don't need designed plays or complicated offenses to score.

Jackson´s biggest achievement has been that he gets "the other guys" to fit in around his star(s) and of course that´s mostly achieved by the triangle, which admittedly isn´t his idea but Tex Winter´s.

Still, he´s a great man-manager. He allways has the role players playing just the way every team would love their role players to play like (and them being happy with that role mostly).


but regarding the bears : I agree that they need an overhaul. Pure "fixing things" won´t help with so many holes and bad-fitting parts.
I do think Cutler deserves a shot with this team changed to fit his needs ...

[Neuqua]

Last year I saw Forte as a B+ guy but as I've posted elsewhere, I'm just not sure. The line is really bad, but as others have stated, he's not getting any separation and not breaking any tackles. That has me concerned.

My fear is that with so many holes, we may not get a chance to go to the playoffs in the Jay Cutler era, and it's not necessarily because of him. We have him signed through what, 2013 now? We need to completely rebuild the OL. We are at the point where we are going to have a lame duck head coach next year.

I'm a Bears fan, and maybe I'm just pessimistic but I just don't see any upside.

[RainMaker]

Well you were playing Chicago Bear football(strong defense, strong running game) prior to this year and made it to a super bowl and won a majority of your games within the past 5 years. The Bengals changed their philosophy this year and are doing quite well. The Pats have been winning SB's because of strong defense and smart QB. Its not like they are playing home games in January putting up huge offensive numbers. In fact in 07 they ran into some bad whether in the later weeks and had their lowest scoring outputs of the season. Id agree that the NFL rules benefit the passing game however when the weather changes you win with defense and a run game unless you plan on getting to the Super Bowl on the road.
The problem is that it's much tougher to build a consistent defense year in and year out than an offense. A few teams have done it, but not many. There are just too many variables at play. I just don't think you can rely on having a great defense as much as you can rely on a couple star offensive players (especially at QB).

And the Bears made it to the Super Bowl because they had a good offense too. They finished 2nd in the league in scoring and had a semi-balanced attack (despite the bad Rex games thrown in on occasion). The defense was great early on but actually faltered a little later in the year when Tommie Harris and Mike Brown got hurt. I do believe that if Tommie Harris had not gotten hurt, the Bears would have won the Super Bowl.

[RainMaker]

I disagree strongly here. WRs are very QB dependent.

The top WRs in the NFL this year:

Sidney Rice
Reggie Wayne
Vincent Jackson
Colston
Fitzgerald
Welker
Moss
Driver

What do they have in common? Favre, Manning, Rivers, Brees, Warner, Brady, Brady, Rodgers.

How much has Calvin Johnson helped those QBs he's played with in Detroit? Hell, the Lions entire strategy revolved around receivers and they still couldn't get a QB to look decent there. How was Roddy White before Matt Ryan arrived?
There are only 2, maybe 3 QBs that can have success with just about anything he's given. The rest of the names you are can't. We've seen how Warner and Favre have fared when given weaker supporting casts. Rodgers has a losing record as a starter.

The elite QBs in the league consist of Brady, Manning, and Brees. The next level requires some help from a receiving core to be succesful. Matt Schaub is not among the leaders at QB because he's a great QB. Jay Cutler didn't magically lose all the abilities he had last year, he just lost Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal.

[RainMaker]

Everyone is focusing too much on 'skill positions' (RB, WR) as the fix to the Bears. The real fix, as it is for almost any bad team, is on the O-line.

Screw Andre Johnson, Matt Forte, or even Jesus if he's wearing a number in the 80's. I want 4 kick-ass hogs that can give my mediocre-to-average 'skill' guys the time and space they need to succeed.
I think we were just debating a hypothetical. I do think you need a good QB to win consistently in this league and that's just as important as an offensive line.

I'd go one step further and say D-line as well. A strong D-Line makes everyone look good on defense. If I was a GM, I'd have it a rule that every year a 1st or 2nd round pick must be used on a OL or DL.

[flere-imsaho]

And the Bears made it to the Super Bowl because they had a good offense too. They finished 2nd in the league in scoring and had a semi-balanced attack (despite the bad Rex games thrown in on occasion). The defense was great early on but actually faltered a little later in the year when Tommie Harris and Mike Brown got hurt. I do believe that if Tommie Harris had not gotten hurt, the Bears would have won the Super Bowl.

To add on to this, the Bears' defense is designed to create big plays, at the risk of giving up big plays. If you have an offense that can get you back the 7 your defense just gave up (as they did during the Super Bowl run), you're fine. If you don't (as they do now, and especially last year), you're screwed.