Kurt Warner retires

[Thomkal]

Yep sad day in Cardinals land, Kurt Warner retires. His news conference starts any moment for any who want to watch.

[gstelmack]

And unlike Brett Favre, he'll probably STAY retired.

[Lathum]

Good player, better person.

[Honolulu_Blue]

A pretty spectacular career overall. I'm sure he could still play another year or two, but why? He really took a pounding over the course of his career and he's got nothing left to prove.

[Thomkal]

And unlike Brett Favre, he'll probably STAY retired.
+1, Brett really needs to watch and learn from this news conference. No chance Kurt comes back.

[Thomkal]

have to admit again that I was wrong two seasons ago when I thought it was stupid the Cards chose Warner to start over Leinart. Can't imagine they would have made the Super Bowl last season and the playoffs this year without him. He had his really bad games during those two years of which I thought there would be a lot more, but man when he was on, he was practically unbeatable. Thanks for a couple magicial seasons Kurt from a long suffering Cardinals fan.

[ISiddiqui]

Good player, better person.

Well put. 100% agreement.

[Young Drachma]

One of the best sports stories, EVER. Enjoy retirement, Kurt. You've earned it.

[flere-imsaho]

have to admit again that I was wrong two seasons ago when I thought it was stupid the Cards chose Warner to start over Leinart.

+1

Even after all his success in St. Louis I always thought he was more a product of the system, until he started lighting things up in Arizona. I hope he has a good retirement.

[Kodos]

Classy guy. Game needs more folks like him.

[DaddyTorgo]

GJ Kurt!

[Sun Tzu]

Even as a Niner fan I can appreciate how good and classy Warner was, and still is. While I can't see he will be missed (;)), I will say that I feel lucky to have seen him play. One of the greatest playoff/big game QB's ever IMO.

[rowech]

Like the guy but am amazed ad the HOF push he's already getting. I'll never think of him as a HOF quarterback. Put up some amazing numbers at time, got pooped on in the middle, and then put up some more amazing numbers. Just can't see that being HOF worthy.

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't see him as a HOF QB either due to lack of longetivity. However, I'll second what has already been said. Very good player, better person. I hope he enjoys his retirement.

[DeToxRox]

While injuries didn't do him in, I think the Gail Sayers argument is appropriate here. He was dominant for what, six seasons? I think that should be enough to get him in the HOF, but I am not going to say it's a travesty if he wasn't inducted.

[MikeVic]

Like the guy but am amazed ad the HOF push he's already getting. I'll never think of him as a HOF quarterback. Put up some amazing numbers at time, got pooped on in the middle, and then put up some more amazing numbers. Just can't see that being HOF worthy.

I think it depends on your personal HOF criteria. Do you value a long, alright career? Or a few awesome seasons? I think Warner is one of the best sports stories ever (as someone mentioned above), going from supermarket worker to potential HOFer is nuts.

Also, I started getting into fantasy football the year Trent Green was injured. Warner was unbelievable.

[PackerFanatic]

Despite what he did the Packers a couple weeks back, I've always respected the guy and his talent. Great player and a great story too. I think he is definitely a hall-of-famer.

[TroyF]

I remember all the years I kept defending the guy saying he wasn't a product of the system in St. Louis. Whatever happens with the HOF, I'm glad he got a chance to stick it to all of the people who thought he sucked by having these last couple of seasons with the Cardinals.

As for the HOF debate:

5 pro bowls, 2 MVP's, 3 Super Bowls, 1 win in a Super Bowl.

9-4 playoff record: 31 TD-14 INT in those games.

261 yards per game (2nd all time)
7.9 yards per pass attempt
208 TD vs. 128 INT

Career too short? Possibly, but the numbers he put up were/are stunning for that period of time. There are certainly worse players than him in the HOF.

I could go either way on this one. In my mind, HOF or not, he's one of the best QB's I've ever seen.

I'll treasure the fact I've gotten to see Warner, Manning (the best of this bunch), Brady and Favre live.

[albionmoonlight]

You know, we all thought in 1999 that Mike Martz was a genius that made a good QB (Warner) look like a great QB.

We now know that Warner was a great QB who made Mike Martz look like a genius.

Funny to think that when he first started, his main claim to fame was that his name sounded like Curt Warner. He's come a long way.

And I have no doubt that, unlike Favre and others, he will stay retired. He has some things (his faith, his family) to fill the void that football will leave. It is sad, but a lot of these great athletes don't have that, and we end up seeing so many of them trying to hang on well past the "hang it up" stage.

[kenparker23]

I don't see him as a HOF QB either due to lack of longetivity. However, I'll second what has already been said. Very good player, better person. I hope he enjoys his retirement.

I disagree. I think he is a lock for the hall. Here are some accomplishments.



2nd Highest Average Passing Yards Per Game, Career (Min. 100 games) - 260.4 yards/game (Peyton Manning is first)[35]
Highest completion percentage in a single game (regular season) - 92.3% (24/26) (9/20/09) [36]
Most Yards Passing, Super Bowl (Game) - 414 yards vs. Tennessee Titans (only QB to pass for 400+ yards in the Super Bowl; also owns 2nd and 3rd highest yardage total in Super Bowl with 377 against the Pittsburgh Steelers and 365 against the New England Patriots). [37][38]
Most Yards Passing, Super Bowl (Career) - 1,156
Most Yards Passing, Playoffs (Single Season) - 1,147 (in 2009).
Most touchdown passes in a single postseason - 11 (in 2009, tied w/Joe Montana, who did it in 1990).
Highest career completion percentage, Playoffs - 66.5%
2nd Highest career passer rating, Playoffs - 104.6 (Bart Starr is first)
Highest Rate of Games w/300+ Yards Passing (Min. 100 games played) - 45.2% (47/104)[39]
Most Yards Passing in the first two games of a season (2000) - 827[40]
Most Consecutive Games w/300+ Yards Passing - 6 (tied w/ Steve Young and Rich Gannon)[41]
Most Games with a perfect Passer Rating, Career (regular season only) - 3 (tied w/Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger)[42]
Only NFL quarterback to throw 40 touchdowns and win a Super Bowl in the same season (1999).
Only quarterback to throw for over 14,000 yards with two different teams (St. Louis Rams, Arizona Cardinals)
One of only 2 players in NFL history to throw 100 touchdown passes with two different teams (Fran Tarkenton is the other)
2nd oldest quarterback to throw for 30 touchdowns in a season - Aged 37 in 2008 (Brett Favre is the oldest, aged 40 in 2009)
Tied Dan Marino as the fastest player to pass for 30,000 yards. He accomplished this in 114 games.
Tied Johnny Unitas with 4 consecutive games with a passer rating over 120 (against Brett Favre and the 10-1 Vikings on 12/6/2009)
Highest average passing yards per game on Monday Night Football - 329.4 (min 7 games)
Tied Daryle Lamonica with throwing 5 touchdown passes in two different playoff games.
Warner is the second quarterback to make Super Bowl starts with two different teams joining Craig Morton (1970 Dallas Cowboys and 1977 Denver Broncos). He also became the third quarterback in NFL history to win a conference championship with two different teams, following Craig Morton and Earl Morrall.


He also was NFL MVP twice
Super Bowl MVP
One Super Bowl title and is two plays away from three titles (which would put him in the rare air of Montana, Brady, Aikman)

Also, I think he is one of the best pure passers I have ever seen. Throws an excellent ball.

Took two historically horrible teams to Super Bowls

The guy was in the NFL for 11 years, passed for 32,344 yards, 66.5% completion, 208 TDs (128 int) career rating 93.7. He has higher career passer rating than JOE MONTANA (92.3). And this is over an 11 YEAR career!!

Compare to Troy Aikman 12 year career. 32,942 yds, 61.5% comp, 165 TD (141 int), career rating 81.6, 3 super bowl titles, 1 super bowl MVP

I get it that he played in a pass happy era, I get it that he had a few down years with the Giants (which makes his numbers more impressive), but for a total body of work, very few quarterbacks come close to both stats and winning like Warner.

Good guy, good teammate, winner, hell of a quarterback. This guy is not a borderline hall of famer, he is a FIRST BALLOT hall of fame player without question.

[Passacaglia]

Okay, I was going to let "shoe-in" slide, but first ballad? You're making it really hard to suppress the grammar nazi in me..

[ISiddiqui]

First Ballad? They'll sing songs to him?

Sorry, I had to...

[Logan]

I fully agree with ken. Looking at the numbers objectively, I don't see how an argument can be made.

[DaddyTorgo]

Aikman was a scrub.

[SportsDino]

Kurt Warner and the Rams were my favorite team when I really started to watch football (as a wee one I watched the woeful Lions and idolized the Barry Sanders, but hardly watched football). Once he was gone the Rams weren't worth watching anymore.

One of my favorite players, I think he picked up an injury to spur his fall with the Rams... I'm glad he made a comeback with the Cards.

[Sgran]

If you're Cleveland, don't you camp out at Warner's home, offer him a blank check and beg him on your hands and knees to QB the Browns? I'd say the same about the Lions, but at least they have a promising young QB. Kurt Warner is the miracle worker for sad-sack franchises.

[MIJB#19]

Generally, I don't really have favorite players or teams in sports. Kurt Warner is about the closest thing for me in football. The Rams cinderella story during the 1999 season drew me into watching and following the NFL and simultaneously picking up the Amsterdam Admirals (RIP) to root for. Warner's NFL career was like a rollercoaster, almost coming back on top last season. And stepping away just in time to avoid completing the NFL circle of life with a career ending injury after one final sack too many. My hat goes off for Kurt Warner, thank you for not quitting the game until now.

[RedKingGold]

I will miss his wife.

[RedKingGold]

Generally, I don't really have favorite players or teams in sports. Kurt Warner is about the closest thing for me in football. The Rams cinderella story during the 1999 season drew me into watching and following the NFL and simultaneously picking up the Amsterdam Admirals (RIP) to root for. Warner's NFL career was like a rollercoaster, almost coming back on top last season. And stepping away just in time to avoid completing the NFL circle of life with a career ending injury after one final sack too many. My hat goes off for Kurt Warner, thank you for not quitting the game until now.

Steve Young says hi!

:D

[kenparker23]

Okay, I was going to let "shoe-in" slide, but first ballad? You're making it really hard to suppress the grammar nazi in me..

Man that is funny. And to think I put that in ALL CAPS. I deserve the grammar nazi on that one!!

I guess I was "singing Warners praises"

[Travis]

If you're Cleveland, don't you camp out at Warner's home, offer him a blank check and beg him on your hands and knees to QB the Browns? I'd say the same about the Lions, but at least they have a promising young QB. Kurt Warner is the miracle worker for sad-sack franchises.

He may be mircale for sad-sack franchises, but the Browns hardly have the sort of WR talent that Warner had in St. Louis or Arizona.

Yes Warner was a great QB, but he also had the benefit of playing in a pair of offenses that featured some pretty impressive WR groups.

[Thomkal]

Now we have to look to the future for the Cards, and the division could be wide open. Leinart is obviously the man at QB right now, but I don't think Coach Whisenhunt has ever been sold on him.

Interestingly enough Sports Illustrated came out with their first mock draft and who do they have the Cards taking in the first round? QB Tim Tebow. While I think it would be a mistake to take him in the first round (they need secondary help badly), Tebow is like Warner reborn personality wise-everybody loves him, strong christian, and a good leader. Sadly I don't think he'll ever be close to Warner in ability.

[MIJB#19]

Steve Young says hi!

:DWhat's with Steve Young? Didn't he retire in 1999?

[DanGarion]

We'll miss you Burt...

[Chief Rum]

One of my favorite players. Sad to see him go, but happy for the memories.

[MizzouRah]

One of my favorites too.. if only he would have stayed instead of Bulger.

Enjoy your retirement Kurt!!!

[Eaglesfan27]

I disagree. I think he is a lock for the hall. Here are some accomplishments.


Second all-time Career Passing Yards per Game (260.4)
Highest all-time percentage of 300-yard games (45.2 percent)
Tied (P. Manning) for most games with perfect passer rating (three)
1-of-2 players in NFL history to throw 100 TD with two teams
Only player in NFL history to throw 14,000 yards with two teams
Tied (Marino) as fastest player to 30,000 pass yards (114 gms)
Tied (Unitas) for consecutive games with 120+ passer rating (four)
Highest Passing Yards per Game on MNF (329.4)
Oldest QB to throw 30 touchdowns in a season
Most 300-yard games (113)
Only QB to throw 40 TD and win the Superbowl in the same season
Highest completing percentage in a single game (92.3 percent)
Tied (Montana) most TD in single postseason (11)
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,147)
First, Second, and Third for passing yards in a Superbowl (414, 377, 365)
He also was NFL MVP twice
Super Bowl MVP
One Super Bowl title and is two plays away from three titles (which would put him in the rare air of Montana, Brady, Aikman)

Also, I think he is one of the best pure passers I have ever seen. Throws an excellent ball.

Took two historically horrible teams to Super Bowls

The guy was in the NFL for 11 years, passed for 32,344 yards, 66.5% completion, 208 TDs (128 int) career rating 93.7. He has higher career passer rating than JOE MONTANA (92.3). And this is over an 11 YEAR career!!

Compare to Troy Aikman 12 year career. 32,942 yds, 61.5% comp, 165 TD (141 int), career rating 81.6, 3 super bowl titles, 1 super bowl MVP

I get it that he played in a pass happy era, I get it that he had a few down years with the Giants (which makes his numbers more impressive), but for a total body of work, very few quarterbacks come close to both stats and winning like Warner.

Good guy, good teammate, winner, hell of a quarterback. This guy is not a borderline hall of famer, he is a FIRST BALLOT hall of fame player without question.

He has some impressive numbers and that is an impressive list, but except for the 3 years with the Rams, he wasn't in the top 3 in most of the key QB stats in any one year. I know it is in part due to injuries but he had 5 subpar years. He was bad with the Giants in 2004, a year in which he only passed for 2000 yards, 6 TD's and 4 INT's in 10 games. He was subpar in 2005 as well, as he only passed for 11 TD's and 9 INT's for the Cardinals. He had 3 great years, followed by 5 below average years, followed by 3 very good years. That lack of consistency, for any reason, doesn't equal HOF in my opinion.

[Logan]

I think the list of QBs with 3 great years and 3 very good years is pretty small and HoF caliber.

[GrantDawg]

I think the list of QBs with 3 great years and 3 very good years is pretty small and HoF caliber.


Agreed. Can't see how he is not a HOF'er.

[Sweed]

As a Ram fan I love Warner and as an Iowan I get a double bonus.

For the numbers and wins he put up he sure took a lot of shit. I'm glad he got another shot with the Cards and was able to cap off a HOF career. System, recievers, blah, blah, blah. Many others have had those too, Montana anyone?
Fact is he had a hell of a quick release, knew where he needed to go with the ball, and was deadly accurate.

Enjoy your retirement Kurt, it was a pleasure to watch you play.

[Pyser]

no question hall of famer. at least in my book.

[Chief Rum]

Even if his actual playing career doesn't make him a HoFer (and I am in the group that thinks he actually has done enough), he belongs in the Hall because of his story and the type of person he is. He's the exact sort of player a Hall of Fame should be aspiring to include, frankly.

[jbergey22]

Crap! Loved watching him play and I thought he would play atleast 1 more year. Thanks for the memories Kurt!

[Denial Of Freedom]

A few things I noticed.


Oldest QB to throw 30 touchdowns in a season

Brett Favre threw 33 this year, so this stat is not accurate, which begs the question how many more are inaccurate.

The guy was in the NFL for 11 years, passed for 32,344 yards, 66.5% completion, 208 TDs (128 int) career rating 93.7. He has higher career passer rating than JOE MONTANA (92.3). And this is over an 11 YEAR career!!
Technically he had a higher QB rating than Montana, but he started 63 fewer games and did not start playing until he was 27 and more intelligent with age, whereas Montana started playing at 23. So I'm not sure its fair to compare against Montana's rating when he only started about 60% of the games Montana did.


Good guy, good teammate, winner, hell of a quarterback. This guy is not a borderline hall of famer, he is a FIRST BALLOT hall of fame player without question.
Final note is I do agree that he is probably a HOF QB, but not sure about first ballot. He put up a few great seasons, but there were several stinkers in a short career, plus if Favre retires for good maybe they decide to let Favre be the only QB to be selected in the year, like they may do with Rice this year.

[BYU 14]

Good player, better person.

Absolutely agree with that!

[ColtCrazy]

Gale Sayers made the HOF by being spectacular for 5 years and injured for 2.

If Warner put up good stats during those years, I'd say no HOF. But Warner put up great stats for five years, and the sixth was a solid season (middle Ram year).

His playoff record is impressive, and you can't deny his good guy image will win him a few extra Hall of Fame votes.

Maybe not in his first go, but Warner will make it in eventually.

[Warhammer]

Don't forget that 2nd Ram year he was injured part of the season, and he still put up numbers.

[kenparker23]

A few things I noticed.

Brett Favre threw 33 this year, so this stat is not accurate, which begs the question how many more are inaccurate.

Technically he had a higher QB rating than Montana, but he started 63 fewer games and did not start playing until he was 27 and more intelligent with age, whereas Montana started playing at 23. So I'm not sure its fair to compare against Montana's rating when he only started about 60% of the games Montana did.


Final note is I do agree that he is probably a HOF QB, but not sure about first ballot. He put up a few great seasons, but there were several stinkers in a short career, plus if Favre retires for good maybe they decide to let Favre be the only QB to be selected in the year, like they may do with Rice this year.

Thank you for the correction. My list has been updated.

I was not trying to compare him to Montana (who I think is the GOAT). In terms of absolute comparison to Montana, there is none. I wanted to demonstrate how impressive Warners numbers are in relation to the benchmark that many consider the best QB ever.

While on the 49ers, what about Warner and Steve Young (another first ballot guy)

Warner 32,344 yards, 66.5% comp, 208 TDs (128 int) career rating 93.7
Young 33,124 yards, 64.3% comp, 232 TDs (107 int) career rating 96.8

Youngs best years (1992-1998) 67% comp, rating 102

One could argue that Young did not get a chance in his early years and that is why I included 1992-1998. But it illustrates that Warners body of work is comparable to Youngs body of work. Had Young started in the late 80s, these numbers may have been different, but we will never know. Had Warner not injured his thumb with the Giants, he may have posted better numbers. My point is, football is full of "what ifs" with any player. The numbers are what they are.

Both players have one super bowl MVP

In the postseason: (I think this is a very good comparison)

Steve Young (14 games): 275 of 447 (61.5 percent) for 3,118 yards (7.0 YPA), 20 touchdowns, and 12 interceptions. QB rate 86.1

Kurt Warner (13 games): 307-462 (66.5 percent) for 3,952 yards (8.5 YPA), 31 touchdowns, and 14 interceptions. QB rate 102.8



Favre will certainly be on the first ballot; and if he retired this year, Warner should be with him. However, if I had to choose a QB to lead my team in a Super Bowl, I think I would chose Warner over Favre.

[Cringer]

Wow, lots of guys on FOFC know Warner personally. Good to know he is such a good guy though.

[MrBug708]

Not sure how he isn't a HOF guy. This is the football HOF, not the baseball HOF. The voters actually try and find reasons TO vote you into the HOF

[Schmidty]

I'm sorry, but the people that are saying that he's not a HOFer are looking for a reason for him not to be one.

I know a lot of the HOF is numbers (and his are very good), but I've always felt that it is the Hall of Fame, not just the Hall of Great Stats. He has a super numbers and achievements, but more than that - He's KURT WARNER. A great success story and a great career. Everyone knows him and his story!! If that's not fame (combined with success), I don't know what is.

People need to stop over-analyzing this. He easily deserves to be there.

[stevew]

I remember seeing the Rams play their 2nd game their SB year. They killed someone. Their offense was basically nothing I had ever seen before. And they helped me get back into football.
Some of my favorite Madden moments involve using the Warner/Faulk/Holt/Bruce tandem.

[Eaglesfan27]

I like Kurt Warner and want him to be in the HOF, but I don't think it is a slam dunk particularly when his entire career is reviewed in 5 years and not in the immediate afterglow of his career ending.

[MizzouRah]

Hall of famer, period.

[rowech]

I'm sorry, but the people that are saying that he's not a HOFer are looking for a reason for him not to be one.

I know a lot of the HOF is numbers (and his are very good), but I've always felt that it is the Hall of Fame, not just the Hall of Great Stats. He has a super numbers and achievements, but more than that - He's KURT WARNER. A great success story and a great career. Everyone knows him and his story!! If that's not fame (combined with success), I don't know what is.

People need to stop over-analyzing this. He easily deserves to be there.

If I do the knee-jerk reaction, he isn't even close for me. I give him more of the benefit of the doubt because of his story, etc. but I would never consider him a HOFer. I would consider him a top 5 QB when he was in STL but not even close the rest of his years.

[Passacaglia]

Wow, lots of guys on FOFC know Warner personally. Good to know he is such a good guy though.

Right on! And it's amazing that people have seen every one of his passes to be able to accumulate all those stats!

[flere-imsaho]

I'm sorry, but the people that are saying that he's not a HOFer are looking for a reason for him not to be one.

I know a lot of the HOF is numbers (and his are very good), but I've always felt that it is the Hall of Fame, not just the Hall of Great Stats. He has a super numbers and achievements, but more than that - He's KURT WARNER. A great success story and a great career. Everyone knows him and his story!! If that's not fame (combined with success), I don't know what is.

People need to stop over-analyzing this. He easily deserves to be there.

:withstupid:

[Logan]

If I do the knee-jerk reaction, he isn't even close for me. I give him more of the benefit of the doubt because of his story, etc. but I would never consider him a HOFer. I would consider him a top 5 QB when he was in STL but not even close the rest of his years.

Please try to make the argument that his ARI years are worse than ANY three year block that John Elway or Jim Kelly put up, to compare to recently elected QBs.

edit: If you're really feeling courageous, you can even try Troy Aikman but that's probably not fair.

[Fidatelo]

I was always annoyed by his penchant for throwing God into every sentence, but aside from that the guy is a pretty awesome story. I'd say there is something wrong with the Hall of Fame if you leave him out.

[Cringer]

Right on! And it's amazing that people have seen every one of his passes to be able to accumulate all those stats!

Not even close to the same thing but no big deal. ;)

[rowech]

Please try to make the argument that his ARI years are worse than ANY three year block that John Elway or Jim Kelly put up, to compare to recently elected QBs.

edit: If you're really feeling courageous, you can even try Troy Aikman but that's probably not fair.

Very different eras. VERY different.

My point is the guy had 3 great seasons (STL years where he was probably the best QB in the league) and 3 good seasons (ARI years where he was probably not in the top 5 QBs in the league).

If he put up 3 years like his three in STL and if he won the Super Bowl in Arizona I'd be on board. But the game changed so much through the 2000s in terms of passing that those three seasons in Arizona, while good, aren't great seasons compared to the other QBs playing during those years.

[MIJB#19]

My point is the guy had 3 great seasons (STL years where he was probably the best QB in the league) and 3 good seasons (ARI years where he was probably not in the top 5 QBs in the league).Then who are those top 5 QBs?

Let's take a look at passing stats of the past three seasons (31 players had 600 or more attempts). I listed Warner and all the players in front of him in selected stats categories. My source for yearly stats (regular season only) was The Football Database (www.footballdb.com).

passer rating (min 600 att)
106.6 Tom Brady
98.7 Aaron Rodgers
97.7 Philip Rivers
97.7 Peyton Manning
97.6 Drew Brees
95.7-94.2 Romo, Favre, Roethlisberger, Schaub
93.6 Kurt Warner (10th)
82.9 NFL AVERAGE

passing yards
13,880 Drew Brees
12,542 Peyton Manning
12,142 Tony Romo
11,829 Brett Favre
11,753 Kurt Warner (5th)
11,689 Jay Cutler
10,955 NFL AVERAGE PER FRANCHISE

completion percentage (min 600 att)
68.0 Chad Pennington
67.5 Drew Brees
67.2 Tom Brady
67.1 Peyton Manning
67.0 Matt Schaub
66.9 Brett Favre
65.4 Kurt Warner (7th)
61.0 NFL AVERAGE

yards per attempt (min 600 att)
8.04 Tom Brady
8.03 Matt Schaub
8.02 Philip Rivers
7.99 Tony Romo
7.86 Aaron Rodgers
7.82-7.64 Roethlisberger, Brees, P.Manning
7.52 Kurt Warner (9th)
6.93 NFL AVERAGE

touchdowns
96 Drew Brees
91 Peyton Manning
88 Tony Romo
83 Philip Rivers
83 Kurt Warner (t-4th)
83 Brett Favre
65 NFL AVERAGE PER FRANCHISE

touchdown percentage (min 600 att)
6.76 Tom Brady
5.83 Philip Rivers
5.79 Tony Romo
5.55 Peyton Manning
5.44 Ben Roethlisberger
5.34-5.33 Rodgers, Brees
5.31 Kurt Warner (8th)
4.10 NFL AVERAGE

interception percentage (min 600 att)
1.42 Jeff Garcia
1.81 Aaron Rodgers
1.82 Tom Brady
1.88 Donovan McNabb
1.89 David Garrard
2.10-2.82 K.Collins, Pennington, Campbell, Orton, Rivers, Brees, P.Manning, Flacco, Schaub, Roethlisberger, Cassel, Ryan
2.88 Kurt Warner (18th)
3.01 NFL AVERAGE

touchdowns per interception (min 600 att)
3.71 Tom Brady
2.95 Aaron Rodgers
2.50 Jeff Garcia
2.37 Philip Rivers
2.29 Donovan McNabb
2.17-1.85 P.Manning, Romo, Brees, Roethlisberger, Favre, Garrard
1.84 Kurt Warner (12th)
1.36 NFL AVERAGE

sack percentage (min 600 att)
2.60 Kerry Collins
2.65 Drew Brees
2.67 Peyton Manning
3.11 Tom Brady
3.78 Derek Anderson
3.91-4.27 Ryan, Cutler
4.29 Kurt Warner (8th)
6.02 NFL AVERAGE


At the same time, it's probably more correct to not single out the last three seasons in Arizona. So, here's where Kurt Warner ranks over 2005-2009 between all the quarterbacks in the league (31 of them had 1,000 or more attempts).

passer rating (min 1000 att)
99.4 Peyton Manning
98.7 Tom Brady
97.2 Aaron Rodgers
95.9 Drew Brees
95.8 Philip Rivers
95.6-93.9 Romo, Schaub
91.9 Kurt Warner (8th)
81.9 NFL AVERGAE

passing yards
21,874 Drew Brees
20,686 Peyton Manning
19,595 Brett Favre
17,601 Eli Manning
16,919 Tom Brady
16,681-15,947 Roethlisberger, McNabb
15,843 Kurt Warner (8th)
17,955 NFL AVERAGE PER FRANCHISE

completion percentage (min 1000 att)
66.7 Peyton Manning
66.4 Drew Brees
66.3 Matt Schaub
66.3 Chad Pennington
65.1 Kurt Warner (5th)
65.0 Tom Brady
60.5 NFL AVERAGE

yards per attempt (min 1000 att)
8.10 Tony Romo
8.01 Matt Schaub
7.88 Ben Roethlisberger
7.83 Philip Rivers
7.80 Peyton Manning
7.75-7.66 Rodgers, Brady, Brees
7.53 Kurt Warner (9th)
6.88 NFL AVERAGE

touchdowns
150 Peyton Manning
146 Drew Brees
128 Tom Brady
121 Brett Favre
119 Eli Manning
110-105 Roethlisberger, Palmer, Romo, Rivers
100 Kurt Warner (10th)
105 NFL AVERAGE PER FRANCHISE

touchdown percentage (min 1000 att)
5.8 Tom Brady
5.8 Tony Romo
5.7 Peyton Manning
5.5 Philip Rivers
5.2 Ben Roethlisberger
5.2-5.0 Rodgers, Brees, Palmer
4.8 Kurt Warner (9th)
4.0 NFL AVERAGE

interception percentage (min 1000 att)
1.7 Jeff Garcia
1.8 Aaron Rodgers
2.0 Donovan McNabb
2.0 David Garrard
2.1 Tom Brady
2.3-2.8 P.Manning, Campbell, McNair, Rivers, K.Collins, Brees, Bulger, Carr, Schaub, Orton, Pennington, Cassel
2.8 Kurt Warner (18th)
3.1 NFL AVERAGE

touchdowns per interceptions (min 1000 att)
2.81 Aaron Rodgers
2.72 Tom Brady
2.46 Peyton Manning
2.33 Philip Rivers
2.28 Donovan McNabb
2.11-1.72 Garcia, Brees, Romo, Palmer, Garrard
1.69 Kurt Warner (11th)
1.32 NFL AVERAGE

sack percentage (min 1000 att)
2.79 Peyton Manning
3.19 Drew Brees
3.77 Steve McNair
3.89 Tom Brady
4.07 Derek Anderson
4.23-4.83 Favre, K.Collins, Cutler, Palmer, Garcia
4.84 Kurt Warner (11th)
6.27 NFL AVERAGE

[rowech]

Some will be disagreed with because of post-season performance and I understand that...

Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Romo, McNabb, Rodgers, Roethlisberger

I think Warner comes in behind these guys. Manning, Brady, and Brees without question. I don't think Roethlisberger is a great QB but tough to argue with two titles. The other guys I know people will pick apart because of not having any post-season success (other than McNabb who has become his own entity as a QB)

[Matthean]

Some will be disagreed with because of post-season performance and I understand that...

Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Romo, McNabb, Rodgers, Roethlisberger

I think Warner comes in behind these guys. Manning, Brady, and Brees without question. I don't think Roethlisberger is a great QB but tough to argue with two titles. The other guys I know people will pick apart because of not having any post-season success (other than McNabb who has become his own entity as a QB)

At worst I think he would be 4th on that list in terms of QBs I would want to be on my team and I would trust all the way through the playoffs. That's considering the list includes two 1st ballot HoF QBs.

One thing not being mentioned is he was the QB who was as big of a driving force for the Cards making the SB as anybody. The Arizona freaking Cardinals. It's not like St. Louis was some top notch team when he took over either. If somebody is the driving force behind taking two different mediocre/sub par franchises to the SB and you don't think they belong in the Hall, I'm really curious as to what somebody needs to do to actually get in.
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[Danny]

Some will be disagreed with because of post-season performance and I understand that...

Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Romo, McNabb, Rodgers, Roethlisberger

I think Warner comes in behind these guys. Manning, Brady, and Brees without question. I don't think Roethlisberger is a great QB but tough to argue with two titles. The other guys I know people will pick apart because of not having any post-season success (other than McNabb who has become his own entity as a QB)

Right now Warner is 3rd on that list behind only Manning and Brady. Roethlisberger and Brees should be able to pass him as well, but haven't yet. Rivers, Romo, and Rodgers, way too early to tell and not a given at all. And Mcnabb I think will always be behind Warner unless he wins the super bowl.

[MIJB#19]

Keep in mind that the stats I posted are for the 2007-2009 and for 2005-2009 regular seasons only. It doesn't reflect on post-season success. Maybe a table format works better to compare stuff (again with the 600 and 1000 attempts minimum):
<table border=1><tr><td>2007-2009<td>att<td>cmp<td>pct<td>yds<td>avg<td>td<td>td%<td>int<td>int%<td>sack<td>loss<td>sack%<td>Rate
<tr><td>Tom Brady<td>1154<td>776<td>67.2<td>9280<td>8<td>78<td>6.8<td>21<td>1.8<td>37<td>214<td>3.1<td>106.6
<tr><td>Aaron Rodgers<td>1105<td>711<td>64.3<td>8690<td>7.9<td>59<td>5.3<td>20<td>1.8<td>87<td>561<td>7.3<td>98.7
<tr><td>Philip Rivers<td>1424<td>906<td>63.6<td>11415<td>8<td>83<td>5.8<td>35<td>2.5<td>72<td>481<td>4.8<td>97.7
<tr><td>Peyton Manning<td>1641<td>1101<td>67.1<td>12542<td>7.6<td>91<td>5.5<td>42<td>2.6<td>45<td>284<td>2.7<td>97.7
<tr><td>Drew Brees<td>1801<td>1216<td>67.5<td>13880<td>7.7<td>96<td>5.3<td>46<td>2.6<td>49<td>336<td>2.6<td>97.6
<tr><td>Tony Romo<td>1520<td>958<td>63<td>12142<td>8<td>88<td>5.8<td>42<td>2.8<td>78<td>495<td>4.9<td>95.7
<tr><td>Brett Favre<td>1588<td>1062<td>66.9<td>11829<td>7.4<td>83<td>5.2<td>44<td>2.8<td>79<td>553<td>4.7<td>94.7
<tr><td>Ben Roethlisberger<td>1379<td>882<td>64<td>10783<td>7.8<td>75<td>5.4<td>38<td>2.8<td>143<td>979<td>9.4<td>94.6
<tr><td>Matt Schaub<td>1252<td>839<td>67<td>10054<td>8<td>53<td>4.2<td>34<td>2.7<td>64<td>424<td>4.9<td>94.2
<tr><td>Kurt Warner<td>1562<td>1021<td>65.4<td>11753<td>7.5<td>83<td>5.3<td>45<td>2.9<td>70<td>494<td>4.3<td>93.6
<tr><td>Jeff Garcia<td>703<td>453<td>64.4<td>5152<td>7.3<td>25<td>3.6<td>10<td>1.4<td>42<td>204<td>5.6<td>92.2
<tr><td>Chad Pennington<td>810<td>551<td>68<td>5831<td>7.2<td>30<td>3.7<td>18<td>2.2<td>56<td>331<td>6.5<td>91.9
<tr><td>Donovan McNabb<td>1487<td>903<td>60.7<td>10793<td>7.3<td>64<td>4.3<td>28<td>1.9<td>102<td>640<td>6.4<td>89.4
<tr><td>David Garrard<td>1376<td>857<td>62.3<td>9726<td>7.1<td>48<td>3.5<td>26<td>1.9<td>105<td>623<td>7.1<td>87.2
<tr><td>Joe Flacco<td>927<td>572<td>61.7<td>6584<td>7.1<td>35<td>3.8<td>24<td>2.6<td>68<td>494<td>6.8<td>84.9
<tr><td>Eli Manning<td>1517<td>903<td>59.5<td>10595<td>7<td>71<td>4.7<td>44<td>2.9<td>84<td>607<td>5.2<td>84.3
<tr><td>Matt Ryan<td>885<td>528<td>59.7<td>6356<td>7.2<td>38<td>4.3<td>25<td>2.8<td>36<td>196<td>3.9<td>84.3
<tr><td>Carson Palmer<td>1170<td>730<td>62.4<td>7956<td>6.8<td>50<td>4.3<td>37<td>3.2<td>54<td>399<td>4.4<td>83.5
<tr><td>Jay Cutler<td>1638<td>1017<td>62.1<td>11689<td>7.1<td>72<td>4.4<td>58<td>3.5<td>73<td>426<td>4.3<td>83.5
<tr><td>Jason Campbell<td>1430<td>892<td>62.4<td>9563<td>6.7<td>45<td>3.1<td>32<td>2.2<td>102<td>661<td>6.7<td>83.1
<tr><td>Kyle Orton<td>1086<td>651<td>59.9<td>7252<td>6.7<td>42<td>3.9<td>26<td>2.4<td>58<td>331<td>5.1<td>82.8
<tr><td>Matt Hasselbeck<td>1259<td>754<td>59.9<td>8211<td>6.5<td>50<td>4<td>39<td>3.1<td>84<td>532<td>6.3<td>79.5
<tr><td>Matt Cassel<td>1016<td>602<td>59.3<td>6655<td>6.6<td>37<td>3.6<td>28<td>2.8<td>89<td>462<td>8.1<td>79.4
<tr><td>Jon Kitna<td>681<td>423<td>62.1<td>4826<td>7.1<td>23<td>3.4<td>25<td>3.7<td>66<td>409<td>8.8<td>79.3
<tr><td>Trent Edwards<td>826<td>506<td>61.3<td>5498<td>6.7<td>24<td>2.9<td>25<td>3<td>58<td>387<td>6.6<td>77.9
<tr><td>Jake Delhomme<td>821<td>479<td>58.3<td>5927<td>7.2<td>31<td>3.8<td>31<td>3.8<td>48<td>363<td>5.5<td>77.6
<tr><td>Kerry Collins<td>713<td>411<td>57.6<td>4432<td>6.2<td>18<td>2.5<td>15<td>2.1<td>19<td>139<td>2.6<td>75.7
<tr><td>Vince Young<td>677<td>412<td>60.9<td>4644<td>6.9<td>20<td>3<td>26<td>3.8<td>37<td>206<td>5.2<td>75.2
<tr><td>Marc Bulger<td>1065<td>612<td>57.5<td>6581<td>6.2<td>27<td>2.5<td>34<td>3.2<td>89<td>617<td>7.7<td>70.9
<tr><td>Derek Anderson<td>992<td>521<td>52.5<td>6290<td>6.3<td>41<td>4.1<td>37<td>3.7<td>39<td>271<td>3.8<td>70.5
<tr><td>JaMarcus Russell<td>680<td>354<td>52.1<td>4083<td>6<td>18<td>2.6<td>23<td>3.4<td>70<td>457<td>9.3<td>65.2
</table>

<table border=1><tr><td>2005-2009<td>att<td>comp<td>Pct<td>yds<td>avg<td>td<td>td%<td>int<td>int%<td>sack<td>loss<td>sack%<td>Rate
<tr><td>Peyton Manning<td>2651<td>1768<td>66.7<td>20686<td>7.8<td>150<td>5.7<td>61<td>2.3<td>76<td>451<td>2.8<td>99.4
<tr><td>Tom Brady<td>2200<td>1429<td>65<td>16919<td>7.7<td>128<td>5.8<td>47<td>2.1<td>89<td>577<td>3.9<td>98.7
<tr><td>Aaron Rodgers<td>1136<td>726<td>63.9<td>8801<td>7.7<td>59<td>5.2<td>21<td>1.8<td>93<td>607<td>7.6<td>97.2
<tr><td>Drew Brees<td>2855<td>1895<td>66.4<td>21874<td>7.7<td>146<td>5.1<td>72<td>2.5<td>94<td>664<td>3.2<td>95.9
<tr><td>Philip Rivers<td>1906<td>1202<td>63.1<td>14918<td>7.8<td>105<td>5.5<td>45<td>2.4<td>102<td>641<td>5.1<td>95.8
<tr><td>Tony Romo<td>1857<td>1178<td>63.4<td>15045<td>8.1<td>107<td>5.8<td>55<td>3<td>99<td>619<td>5.1<td>95.6
<tr><td>Matt Schaub<td>1343<td>890<td>66.3<td>10757<td>8<td>58<td>4.3<td>36<td>2.7<td>72<td>459<td>5.1<td>93.9
<tr><td>Kurt Warner<td>2105<td>1371<td>65.1<td>15843<td>7.5<td>100<td>4.8<td>59<td>2.8<td>107<td>756<td>4.8<td>91.9
<tr><td>Ben Roethlisberger<td>2116<td>1330<td>62.9<td>16681<td>7.9<td>110<td>5.2<td>70<td>3.3<td>212<td>1388<td>9.1<td>90.9
<tr><td>Carson Palmer<td>2199<td>1399<td>63.6<td>15827<td>7.2<td>110<td>5<td>62<td>2.8<td>109<td>737<td>4.7<td>90
<tr><td>Donovan McNabb<td>2160<td>1294<td>59.9<td>15947<td>7.4<td>98<td>4.5<td>43<td>2<td>142<td>892<td>6.2<td>89.6
<tr><td>Jeff Garcia<td>1064<td>671<td>63.1<td>7398<td>7<td>38<td>3.6<td>18<td>1.7<td>54<td>278<td>4.8<td>88.5
<tr><td>Chad Pennington<td>1378<td>913<td>66.3<td>9713<td>7<td>49<td>3.6<td>37<td>2.7<td>95<td>555<td>6.4<td>87.3
<tr><td>David Garrard<td>1785<td>1100<td>61.6<td>12578<td>7<td>62<td>3.5<td>36<td>2<td>133<td>787<td>6.9<td>86
<tr><td>Brett Favre<td>2808<td>1777<td>63.3<td>19595<td>7<td>121<td>4.3<td>91<td>3.2<td>124<td>857<td>4.2<td>84.8
<tr><td>Jay Cutler<td>1775<td>1098<td>61.9<td>12690<td>7.1<td>81<td>4.6<td>63<td>3.5<td>86<td>511<td>4.6<td>83.8
<tr><td>Matt Hasselbeck<td>2079<td>1258<td>60.5<td>14112<td>6.8<td>92<td>4.4<td>63<td>3<td>142<td>915<td>6.4<td>82.9
<tr><td>Jason Campbell<td>1637<td>1002<td>61.2<td>10860<td>6.6<td>55<td>3.4<td>38<td>2.3<td>109<td>716<td>6.2<td>82.3
<tr><td>Jake Delhomme<td>1687<td>1004<td>59.5<td>12153<td>7.2<td>72<td>4.3<td>58<td>3.4<td>98<td>744<td>5.5<td>81.6
<tr><td>Marc Bulger<td>1940<td>1174<td>60.5<td>13179<td>6.8<td>65<td>3.4<td>51<td>2.6<td>164<td>1171<td>7.8<td>81
<tr><td>Eli Manning<td>2596<td>1498<td>57.7<td>17601<td>6.8<td>119<td>4.6<td>79<td>3<td>137<td>977<td>5<td>81
<tr><td>Steve McNair<td>1149<td>720<td>62.7<td>7324<td>6.4<td>34<td>3<td>27<td>2.3<td>45<td>303<td>3.8<td>80.9
<tr><td>Matt Cassel<td>1048<td>620<td>59.2<td>6870<td>6.6<td>39<td>3.7<td>29<td>2.8<td>93<td>478<td>8.2<td>79.6
<tr><td>Jon Kitna<td>1306<td>812<td>62.2<td>9133<td>7<td>44<td>3.4<td>49<td>3.8<td>131<td>807<td>9.1<td>78.6
<tr><td>David Carr<td>1046<td>661<td>63.2<td>6230<td>6<td>31<td>3<td>28<td>2.7<td>125<td>751<td>10.7<td>78.3
<tr><td>Kyle Orton<td>1454<td>841<td>57.8<td>9121<td>6.3<td>51<td>3.5<td>39<td>2.7<td>88<td>521<td>5.7<td>76.9
<tr><td>Kerry Collins<td>1368<td>755<td>55.2<td>8740<td>6.4<td>39<td>2.9<td>33<td>2.4<td>62<td>423<td>4.3<td>74.1
<tr><td>Joey Harrington<td>1066<td>626<td>58.7<td>6472<td>6.1<td>31<td>2.9<td>35<td>3.3<td>71<td>444<td>6.2<td>72.3
<tr><td>Vince Young<td>1034<td>596<td>57.6<td>6843<td>6.6<td>32<td>3.1<td>39<td>3.8<td>62<td>335<td>5.7<td>72.3
<tr><td>Derek Anderson<td>1109<td>587<td>52.9<td>7083<td>6.4<td>46<td>4.1<td>45<td>4.1<td>47<td>337<td>4.1<td>69.7
<tr><td>Alex Smith<td>1172<td>660<td>56.3<td>7029<td>6<td>37<td>3.2<td>43<td>3.7<td>103<td>642<td>8.1<td>69.2
</table>

Some will be disagreed with because of post-season performance and I understand that...

Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Romo, McNabb, Rodgers, Roethlisberger

I think Warner comes in behind these guys. Manning, Brady, and Brees without question. I don't think Roethlisberger is a great QB but tough to argue with two titles. The other guys I know people will pick apart because of not having any post-season success (other than McNabb who has become his own entity as a QB)From the stats, I think it's really just P.Manning, Brady an Brees that have the obviously better numbers over 2005/2007 through 2009. Behind them, Roethlisberger has the playoffs success, while Romo and Rivers had consistent regular season stats. Overall, you have consider Kurt Warner as being 4th or 5th best over the past 5 seasons.

[Sweed]

Some will be disagreed with because of post-season performance and I understand that...

Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Romo, McNabb, Rodgers, Roethlisberger

I think Warner comes in behind these guys. Manning, Brady, and Brees without question. I don't think Roethlisberger is a great QB but tough to argue with two titles. The other guys I know people will pick apart because of not having any post-season success (other than McNabb who has become his own entity as a QB)

Yes, and that post season performance is the 800lb gorilla in the corner. You can't look at Warner's career and not see it or ignore it. Championships and playoff success define quarterbacks in the NFL. How many guys over the years have we heard "if he had a super bowl ring" or "he's never won the big games"? Warner has done it and done it with his skills not by relying on the Steel Curtain, '85 Bears' or more recent Ravens' defenses. Sure he had good skill position guys but if he doesn't get the ball to them then it really doesn't matter.

Of these guys you listed (Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Romo, McNabb, Rodgers, Roethlisberger) who would you rather have under center if your team were in the super bowl? Manning and Brady stick out but an argument could still be made that Warner might be the best choice. The rest? Not even close IMHO.

[rowech]

For the record guys....I'm not saying Warner is some God awful QB. I just don't believe he has a HOF career. I love the dude. Just not enough for HOF.

[kenparker23]

What are you guys talking about?? "where does he rank in 2005-2009" or "where does he rank in the Arizona years". Hall of Fame is the result of a players body of work from start to finish.

Warner 32,344 yards, 66.5% comp, 208 TDs (128 int) career rating 93.7

His post seasons are some of the best ever. Again, look at Warner versus Steve Young (from an earlier post).

Steve Young (14 games): 275 of 447 (61.5 percent) for 3,118 yards (7.0 YPA), 20 touchdowns, and 12 interceptions. QB rate 86.1

Kurt Warner (13 games): 307-462 (66.5 percent) for 3,952 yards (8.5 YPA), 31 touchdowns, and 14 interceptions. QB rate 102.8

In the NFL it is all about the post season. This is why Lynn Swann and Terry Bradshaw are there (and deservingly so IMHO)

The problem is, Warner has been underrated his entire career. I love the Tony Romo comparison. If you put these same numbers for a guy like Tony Romo in 10 years, everyone will think he would be a lock for the hall of fame. To get there, Romo will have to continue the same productivity that he has had for the next 4-5 years, go to the super bowl the next 3 out of 4 years, win at least one of them, and be named MVP of the game. And in those super bowls, Romo needs to post the top three super bowl passing games of ALL TIME!!

To date, Romo is a hell of a long way from this. He has one playoff win.

Warner's body of work alone should get him into the hall. It doesn't matter that his career had some peaks and valleys.

What is hall of fame criteria???
Great stats -- check
Great teammate -- check
Winner -- check
Big game player in post season -- check
Good person -- check
Quarterbacks - great release and accurate -- check
Could lead teams and men -- check
Career over 10 years -- check
Excellence sustained over a period of time -- half a check (because he was injured in the middle of his career, but he came back late in his career)

It makes if hard for me to see how anyone could argue against his being a hall of famer.

[Eaglesfan27]

Was he really injured for the entirety of those 5 bad years, or did he have trouble beating out two different young QB's because his play was bad during that time? What about the start of 2002 when he was healthy, but started off the year with 7 interceptions in his first 3 games before he was hurt? What about 2005 when he started off poorly against for the Cardinals in their first few games before he hurt his groin and then was beat out by Josh McCown? Those 5 years were such a barren period that I think he'll at least fail to make it in on the first ballot despite his great character giving him a boost.

[Chief Rum]

Was he really injured for the entirety of those 5 bad years, or did he have trouble beating out two different young QB's because his play was bad during that time? What about the start of 2002 when he was healthy, but started off the year with 7 interceptions in his first 3 games before he was hurt? What about 2005 when he started off poorly against for the Cardinals in their first few games before he hurt his groin and then was beat out by Josh McCown? Those 5 years were such a barren period that I think he'll at least fail to make it in on the first ballot despite his great character giving him a boost.

Denny Green was in love with McCown, and Warner had been injury riddled since the Rams days. Not a surprise to see McCown get the nod. This is why Denny Green is no longer an NFL coach.

As for the Giants situation, Warner was playing with a new team and doing "okay", but the intent was always that he would be holding things over for Eli. Everyone knew that; the Giants spent an arm and a leg to get Eli. Joe Montana in his prime wouldn't have been able to stop that momentum.

As for 2002, not sure how much we can make of it. Plenty of players get off to bad starts and then right the ship. In this case, Warner got hurt before he got the chance to do so. We don't know what would have happened, but considering what success he had since then, I would argue he probably would have made some positive gains back to respectability.

[miked]

He had a rating of like 86 or 87 and a winning record before the Giants benched him. His rating with the Giants was as good or better than most of Eli's years. They just got impatient with their new car and decided to rush it off the lot.

[Warhammer]

In 2002 in StL, the Rams played a completely different offense with him in there than they did without him. They kept 5 guys in to block when Warner was QB, and had 7 guys in to block when Bulger was QB. The line had deteriorated to the point where Warner was getting killed.

With the Giants, he never had a chance. He was keeping the seat warm for Eli.

[Sweed]

In 2002 in StL, the Rams played a completely different offense with him in there than they did without him. They kept 5 guys in to block when Warner was QB, and had 7 guys in to block when Bulger was QB. The line had deteriorated to the point where Warner was getting killed.


^^^^^
This doesn't get said nearly enough.

Martz (the genious) nearly killed Warner with his stubbornness, refusing to make any adjustments to protect him.