Preorder OOTP 11 now and save $15!

[Markus Heinsohn]

OK friends,

we have just started our preorder period for OOTP 11! This year you can get the game for $24.99 (€24.99) from now on through February 21st, and safe $15 from the official release price. On top of that, you will receive the game two days prior to the official release if you preorder now! So, do not waste any time!!

From February 22nd until the release the preorder price is $29.99. After that, the price will be $39.99, just as every year.

OOTP 11 will be released in April 2010!

Please check our latest newsletter for preordering details and a list of new features:
NEWSLETTER containing webstore links (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/newsletters/nl0062/)

OOTP 11 will definitely the best OOTP we have ever produced, we are sure you will enjoy it :)

Cheers,
Markus

PS: Customers from the European Union will pay a sales tax on top of the dollar value, but this is still considerably cheaper than the €-price we had in previous years. Also, we will use eSellerate as our electronic license system for both PC and Mac this year.

[AgustusM]

woo hoo - love the April release AND I was a twitter winner so mine is already paid for. :banana:

[markprior22]

I'm in

[Sun Tzu]

In like Flint.

[AgustusM]

Import Facegen files from Facegen Modeler, allowing you to put your own face into the game!

My favorite feature so far - I love facegen over facepacks simply because I like the way they look and as soon as a player changes teams his real life picture looks wrong. This allows us to create facegens for real players. Can't wait for this new feature.

[CleBrownsfan]

In - lets see how long it takes Fool-X and Fool-H to do the switch ;)

This sounds interesting:

Dynamically evolving fictional leagues, an optional mode that breathes life into your league - imagine the league automatically introducing rule changes or league expansion randomly in a realistic fashion!

I wonder if it's just for fictional league and not real MLB 2010 roster league?

[DaddyTorgo]

In like Flint.

THAT'S MY FAVORITE MOVIE!!! :D

[Tasan]

Hopefully single day season simming doesn't get killed with this. You can still turn injuries all the way off, right?

[Pumpy Tudors]

:)

[DanGarion]

Ordered, as always...

[Sun Tzu]

THAT'S MY FAVORITE MOVIE!!! :D

http://images.movie-gazette.com/gallery/albums/I/in-like-flint.jpg

I always thought Austin Powers was the original Man of Mystery...

[lynchjm24]

That was quite a short development period especially when you include the developer took some time off. Someone wake me when the show stoppers are fixed in August.

[Sweed]

That was quite a short development period especially when you include the developer took some time off. Someone wake me when the show stoppers are fixed in August.

damned if he does\ damned if he doesn't :shrug:

Had to happen sometime if the game was going to get back to an April release. Just as well be now as next year.

[lynchjm24]

damned if he does\ damned if he doesn't :shrug:

Had to happen sometime if the game was going to get back to an April release. Just as well be now as next year.

True even if it was 18 months I'd say I'd wait until the show stoppers were squashed. This is a REALLY short cycle though and there really isn't anything in the feature list that is interesting. Loading my own picture... that's what people are excited about?

[JetsIn06]

True even if it was 18 months I'd say I'd wait until the show stoppers were squashed. This is a REALLY short cycle though and there really isn't anything in the feature list that is interesting. Loading my own picture... that's what people are excited about?

Seriously?


A totally re-coded amateur draft with optional signing bonuses, player demands, a slotting system, post-draft contract & bonus negotiations, and compensation picks for unsigned picks (who will re-enter the draft a year later). Also, when feeder leagues are used, undrafted/unsigned high school players may go to college and continue playing!
Automatically generated high school/college stats, helping you to evaluate potential picks in the amateur draft.
Recoded fielding engine, making defense more realistic while introducing new fielding stats like Zone Rating, Individual Fielding Efficiency, and Team Defense Efficiency.
More advanced statistics like wOBA (weighted on-base average), OPS+, ERA+ and FIP (fielding independent pitching)
Team owners with distinct personalities, providing constant feedback about your performance
Improved contract negotiations, including counter-offers from players.
More varied news stories
Create and print baseball cards of your favorite players on customizable templates, including historical player cards That's a bit more than importing your face.

[lynchjm24]

Seriously?


A totally re-coded amateur draft with optional signing bonuses, player demands, a slotting system, post-draft contract & bonus negotiations, and compensation picks for unsigned picks (who will re-enter the draft a year later). Also, when feeder leagues are used, undrafted/unsigned high school players may go to college and continue playing!
Automatically generated high school/college stats, helping you to evaluate potential picks in the amateur draft.
Recoded fielding engine, making defense more realistic while introducing new fielding stats like Zone Rating, Individual Fielding Efficiency, and Team Defense Efficiency.
More advanced statistics like wOBA (weighted on-base average), OPS+, ERA+ and FIP (fielding independent pitching)
Team owners with distinct personalities, providing constant feedback about your performance
Improved contract negotiations, including counter-offers from players.
More varied news stories
Create and print baseball cards of your favorite players on customizable templates, including historical player cards That's a bit more than importing your face.


There is really nothing there. More varied news stories? Create and print baseball cards?

Feeder leagues have never worked right so since they can't be turned on you can throw those out the window.

I need an owner to give me feedback about my performance? Did they take the standings out of the game?

If scouting wasn't a clusterfuck then stats for high school and college players might be nice, but since you can't turn scouting on I already know their talents and ratings.

If defense is improved that's nice. If the draft is improved that is also good to hear. I'll believe those two have happened when I see it.

Hopefully those advanced stats work better in the game then VORP has.

I was sort of joking that the development period was short, but if those are the biggest of the new features then it's barely above a roster update.

[SunDevil]

There is really nothing there. More varied news stories? Create and print baseball cards?

Feeder leagues have never worked right so since they can't be turned on you can throw those out the window.

I need an owner to give me feedback about my performance? Did they take the standings out of the game?

If scouting wasn't a clusterfuck then stats for high school and college players might be nice, but since you can't turn scouting on I already know their talents and ratings.

If defense is improved that's nice. If the draft is improved that is also good to hear. I'll believe those two have happened when I see it.

Hopefully those advanced stats work better in the game then VORP has.

I was sort of joking that the development period was short, but if those are the biggest of the new features then it's barely above a roster update.

+1

[JetsIn06]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :)

I think the new draft stuff, stats, and defense are well worth the upgrade. I like the card feature too, but understand that's not for everyone.

[Nugget699]

I won't be buying OOTP until Marcus puts Relegation and Promotion into the game for my Fictional Leagues.

[lighthousekeeper]

in 4 1

[cougarfreak]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :)

I think the new draft stuff, stats, and defense are well worth the upgrade. I like the card feature too, but understand that's not for everyone.

+1........looks like some nice new features to me. I'm looking forward to it.

[Markus Heinsohn]

There is really nothing there.(snip)... then it's barely above a roster update

Oh boy. You cannot be serious. :confused:

You do know that we spend time on every feature each year, improving what we have and not listing it as new features, right?

But well, I guess you cannot please everyone.

[Markus Heinsohn]

+1........looks like some nice new features to me. I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks, you'll enjoy the game, I'm sure :)

[lynchjm24]

Oh boy. You cannot be serious. :confused:

You do know that we spend time on every feature each year, improving what we have and not listing it as new features, right?

But well, I guess you cannot please everyone.

I am dead serious. I support your game and have bought every version since 4, but there isn't a whole heck of a lot here to sink teeth into.

Scouting is the perfect example. Have you spent time and improved it again this version, because ten versions in and it's not a viable feature to use. If you turn on scouting and listen to your scouts in the draft you will never develop an above average major league player. You can hire the highest rated scout in the league and using OSA to draft will leave you with a better system then your scout. I've shown step by step on the OOTP board how broken it is, but it disappears into the ether under an avalanche of posts and suggestions about things that have nothing to do with improving the core baseball game.

I understand that things like printing baseball cards have their supporters, but I really just do not get how you could want to play a baseball sim as deep as OOTP purports to be, but not care that scouting and feeders are useless but care that you can import your own face.

Just saying you've improved defense doesn't really tell me a whole heck of a lot. What was wrong was it before? What is better about it now? Since I've seen you claim 10 versions in a row that the AI is improved but have yet to see a shred of evidence in practice you'll have to forgive me if I take a wait and see approach as to if/how improved something is.

I guess there could people who want the game to change the rules and randomly expand, but I must be missing how most people play the game, because the sort of nerds who like these games seem to enjoy having control over the universe. I am not even one of the uberdorks who is making uniforms, and writing game recaps but even I take time to carefully choose what options and cities and teams I'm using in my leagues.

[Markus Heinsohn]

I understand that things like printing baseball cards have their supporters, but I really just do not get how you could want to play a baseball sim as deep as OOTP purports to be, but not care that scouting and feeders are useless but care that you can import your own face.

I did not spend a single minute coding these two features, Andreas does that part of the game, so it is not time 'wasted' (as you seem to think) from my side.

So, feeders and scouting are useless. I am glad that most people seem to disagree :) Anyway, feel free to email me (markus at ootpdevelopments.com) what you dislike about them, I am always open to ideas.

[lynchjm24]

I did not spend a single minute coding these two features, Andreas does that part of the game, so it is not time 'wasted' (as you seem to think) from my side.

So, feeders and scouting are useless. I am glad that most people seem to disagree :) Anyway, feel free to email me (markus at ootpdevelopments.com) what you dislike about them, I am always open to ideas.

I'd love to see what majority is using feeders. I haven't seen more then a few people post they have ever been able to keep the talent entering their league balanced when using them.

As for scouting, if you can't see how you can triangulate the actual ratings in the draft by using OSA and can see where your scout is wrong... then I don't know what to tell you - it's so obvious that it's unplayable.

A. Turn on Scouting
B. Hire the best scouts
C. Go to the draft
D. See which players your scout likes best
E. Go into the editor and see their ratings
F. The players your scout likes most are the players where his positive error is.

Run 10 seasons picking the player your scout likes best, then run 10 seasons where you pick the highest rated players that your scout and OSA agree on. Go back and tell me which 10 year stretch you drafted better players. It's not even close. Unless you are picking in the top 5 the player your scout likes best is always a bust, because every team is scouting them and if their ratings were really high one of the other scouts in the league would have identified the player. I can turn on scouting, go to the draft and 5 picks into the draft I can identify the 5-10 players my scout is telling me are good but aren't, but the AI isn't taking them and my scout is 2 or 3 standard deviations high on rating those players.

Because of the way the game creates players, I know the higher the ratings the more likely they are 'mis-scouted'.

I don't really care, I've given up trying to use scouts and it doesn't keep me from playing the game, but it does give me pause when I see something like defense is 'improved', yet since I have no idea how it worked before or how it works going forward, you'll have to forgive me for being skeptical because I've seen the same claims about things like scouting and it has been wrong.

As far as who programs what features, it doesn't really matter. If you think your customer base thinks that printable baseball cards is something that is going to move more units, then that's your decision to make. If it's true it just suprises me that the sort of people attracted to this sort of game would be excited about that. I would think that real improvements to the financials, engine, AI, would sell more units, but it's your livelihood and I respect the fact that they are your calls to make, but it doesn't make me any more impressed or excited by the list.

[Markus Heinsohn]

...

We have tested scouting a lot, and it works exactly as designed to be honest. The best scouts have the lowest scouting error and OSA is the least reliable, as it should be. Maybe the default setting of the scouting accuracy isn't for your taste, but you can adjust this in the game options.

Also, OOTP customers play the game in many different ways, we have 15 year old guys who just play MLB, and 75 year old folks who love quick historical simming, and everything in between. And the features we choose each year are features which are suggested and supported by community members, and there really are a lot of people who enjoy baseball cards or the thought of seeing their face in the game and let the Facegen engine handle the aging/mood accordingly. I personally wouldn't see these as priorities either, but there are indeed people who do :)

[Honolulu Blue]

I liked the new feature set enough to pre-order. I'm especially excited about being able to make mock '75 Topps cards of my Ludington Demons team. Just kidding. Here's what I'm really excited about:

* The extra fielding stats is nice. It's terribly hard to get a +/- runs/wins figure from just the base stats. This should make it easier to find out how much my "1" left fielder is costing me.
* The amateur draft changes sound promising. It's about time that signing bonuses made it into the game, IMO. That will make turning around those hopeless teams a little more challenging.
* I like having amateur stats. It'll save me from having to use feeders for just that purpose.
* Evolving fictional leagues has a lot of potential, depending on what changes are in the script. Will the spitball make a comeback? Could they get super serious about PEDs? I know, let's raise the mound and pretend it's 1968 again.

[lungs]

Markus, will we ever see the ability to purchase a contract from another team? It'd make modeling independent leagues much more realistic. It would also be a hit for historical simmers.

[lynchjm24]

We have tested scouting a lot, and it works exactly as designed to be honest. The best scouts have the lowest scouting error and OSA is the least reliable, as it should be. Maybe the default setting of the scouting accuracy isn't for your taste, but you can adjust this in the game options.



I know it works as designed. That is the problem. How anyone can play with scouts on during the draft is 100% lost on me.

I'd go through the trouble of walking through the logic on yet another draft but only a small percentage of people seem to understand the issues and I don't feel like wasting any more time on it, but I've got nothing to do so maybe I'll once again spell it out later.

[lynchjm24]

I created a 16 team fictional league. Took my scout and made him neutral and a 100 rating in the editor. I took the entire budget I had and put it on scouting amateurs.

My team Washington picks 11th out of 16. I'll walk you through the simple logic to show you how broken the process is and then reveal the real ratings as players are drafted.

Let's start with the hitters:

My scout likes as 5 star prospects (Con-Pow-Eye)
SS MacKinley 12-12-14
2b Matthews 20-12-17
1b Gallardo 14-14-12

OSA thinks that MacKinley is a 6-10-7. He is a bust in the first.
OSA has Matthews at 13-5-10. He's probably a decent prospect but nowhere near the player my scout says he is
OSA has Gallardo at 6-5-5. He's probably not a prospect at first base.

So I have the best scout, I've put my entire budget at scouting the draft and he has brought me reports that there are 3 5-star position players. I am 99% sure that 2 of them totally suck and would be first round busts. I think that one might be pretty good and might not be an embarrassment picking at 11.

Pitchers:
One 5 star starter Colon my scout has him at 14-15-12 OSA has him at 17-18-14. I have absolutely no doubt that this is the best player in the draft.

On to the draft;
1. Colon - True ratings of 16-15-15. SIMPLE TO TRIANGULATE HE WAS THE BEST PLAYER
2. McKinley - True ratings 8-12-10 Not actually as bad as I thought he'd be. I thought the power would be pretty low, not just contact.
3. Matthews goes next 17-8-11 He's better then decent, but it was obvious that my scout was stupid wrong on him. Since 20-12-17 ratings almost never happen, I know when I see them that they are wrong.

I know you are going to somehow tell me that statistically my scout is more accurate then OSA so far.. great, except that by knowing how the system works and the OSA ratings I can inherently have a better idea of what their real ratings are.

So I've moved ahead to my pick at 11. Guess who is left.... that's right, the 5 star first base prospect Gallardo....
Contact 14, Gap 20, Power 14, Eye 12, Avoid Ks 12. Yet he fell all the way to 11. There is no way in the world that this player isn't a complete bust and I know that. The only way to build a franchise WOULD BE TO IGNORE THE BEST SCOUT IN THE LEAGUE ON A TEAM THAT PUTS IT'S ENTIRE BUDGET INTO AMATEUR SCOUTING.

There are 2 4 star players left on my scout's board:
SS Zaitsoff - 12-3-12. OSA 8-2-8. Likely not a good first rounder
LF Guesne 16-8-12 OSA 7-4-7. Likely not a good prospect

So these are the three players my scout says are head and shoulders above the others remaining. None of them are probably any good, and I wouldn't be suprised if the SS Zaitsoff was the best of the three. Let's see.

Guesne is 11-6-9. OSA was closer
Gallardo is 10-10-8 A touch better then I thought he was going to be, but nowhere near the 5* player my scout predicted
Zaitsoff 14-3-13. The best player and the ONE I WOULD HAVE DRAFTED BY BACKING INTO THE RATINGS EVEN THOUGH MY SCOUT THOUGHT HE WAS THE WORST OF THE THREE

If this 'works', then I guess anytime I hear that anything 'works' in OOTP you'll have to understand why I'm skeptical.

[Axxon]

I know you are going to somehow tell me that statistically my scout is more accurate then OSA so far.. great, except that by knowing how the system works and the OSA ratings I can inherently have a better idea of what their real ratings are.



So, you're saying you can use the information provided by the game to get a better idea about their real ratings? Clearly the game is busted beyond repair then.

[lynchjm24]

So, you're saying you can use the information provided by the game to get a better idea about their real ratings? Clearly the game is busted beyond repair then.

Yeah that right... 'working' means that I ignore the highest rated scout in the game and I don't select the players he suggests, instead I intentionally ignore him. It will be just like Theo Epstein, he ignores the scouts and just reads off Baseball America's draft preview.

It's really adds a fun factor when my scout identifies 4 5* players and I know which are really 5* prospects and which aren't.

Two choices, you can triangulate using OSA which is akin to the Yankees averaging their scout's opinions with Keith Law on ESPN or I can go with my scouts and draft a shitty player in every round unless I'm picking in the top 3 and get lucky.

That's a 'working' system.

[CraigSca]

I stopped playing when everyone in my minor leagues (which included the "allow ghost player option") has ~ 45 run ERAs because it would re-use the same guys over and over as starters even when they were exhausted.

The thing that always got me was - while Markus made wizards to re-create leagues the wizards always took effect AFTER you created the players. So, if I wanted to create a league with logos and all the other settings and the re-start with no players, that was impossible. That stinks. I have a set structure that I want, why can't I just create new player databases within that template? It took about an hour to set-up - why do I have to repeat that process?

[Axxon]

Yeah that right... 'working' means that I ignore the highest rated scout in the game and I don't select the players he suggests, instead I intentionally ignore him. It will be just like Theo Epstein, he ignores the scouts and just reads off Baseball America's draft preview.

It's really adds a fun factor when my scout identifies 4 5* players and I know which are really 5* prospects and which aren't.

Two choices, you can triangulate using OSA which is akin to the Yankees averaging their scout's opinions with Keith Law on ESPN or I can go with my scouts and draft a shitty player in every round unless I'm picking in the top 3 and get lucky.

That's a 'working' system.

I'm not arguing for the system but it appears you're not ignoring anything; you're using it to triangulate with other information you're given instead of just using it as gospel. You've even said it's more correct than OSA by itself It seems you want the scout to be perfect else the system is busted. I find that amusing.

[lynchjm24]

I'm not arguing for the system but it appears you're not ignoring anything; you're using it to triangulate with other information you're given instead of just using it as gospel. You've even said it's more correct than OSA by itself It seems you want the scout to be perfect else the system is busted. I find that amusing.

Not even close to my point. The system doesn't work because I shouldn't have my scout telling me there are 4 5* prospects and be able to know which one is the real deal by using a system that is supposed to be much worse then mine.

From the standpoint of a game how does that design make any sense. I was under the impression that OOTP was trying to simulate what running a baseball team would be like. In real baseball you don't KNOW that your scouting department is wrong because either A: Baseball America tells you so or B: When you see that other teams aren't interested in a player you know your scout's rating is wrong

If you hire the best scout and spend the most money on scouting and follow your scout's advice, you will never draft any prospects until you are picking in the top 5 and get lucky, because any lower in the draft and you are plucking the players your scout is most wrong about. What about that system works?

If hiring the best scout and spending more money then the other teams in scouting amateurs doesn't lead you to drafting better prospects then how is the system anything other then 'broken'? Obviously you aren't going to hit on every pick, there needs to be some sort of scouting fog, but there should be a long term advantage if you align your resources towards scouting the draft with the best scout.

[molson]

I hate it when lynchjm24 ruins things with his numbers and book knowledge.

I've never played with scouting on in any text sim (when it was an option to turn it off). I'd much rather go with a really low rating scale (like 1-5), and just get randomness from that.

I don't think, generally, text sims have figured out scouting yet. I know there have been a bunch of threads here about that.

If you had to get through an NFL/NBA draft with nothing but ESPN.com mock drafts - nobody would notice your results as being drastically different than the teams' hired professionals. (In fact, we tend to evaluate real NFL/NBA drafts by how far they deviate from the mock drafts.) There's really not that much difference between scouts.

I guess in baseball, they have a somewhat more important role, in that they have to "find" lower-rated guys out there in corn fields across America, but again, if a guy has 1st round talent, every scout is going to agree with that. The guy might still be a bust, but anyone would take him in the 1st round.

[cougarfreak]

I hate it when lynchjm24 ruins things with his numbers and book knowledge.

I've never played with scouting on in any text sim (when it was an option to turn it off). I'd much rather go with a really low rating scale (like 1-5), and just get randomness from that.

I don't think, generally, text sims have figured out scouting yet. I know there have been a bunch of threads here about that.

If you had to get through an NFL/NBA draft with nothing but ESPN.com mock drafts - nobody would notice your results as being drastically different than the teams' hired professionals. (In fact, we tend to evaluate real NFL/NBA drafts by how far they deviate from the mock drafts.) There's really not that much difference between scouts.

I guess in baseball, they have a somewhat more important role, in that they have to "find" lower-rated guys out there in corn fields across America, but again, if a guy has 1st round talent, every scout is going to agree with that. The guy might still be a bust, but anyone would take him in the 1st round.

I play with real ratings off, talent only. Never had any interest in scouts, I like my fog of war the way I play.

[stevew]

No chance I'm buying. Fool me 6 times, shame on me.

[Buccaneer]

I've never played with scouting on in any text sim (when it was an option to turn it off). I'd much rather go with a really low rating scale (like 1-5), and just get randomness from that.

+1. I, too, don't think I have ever turned scouts on in any game, esp. OOTP (particularly from reading the stuff here). I do like the way FBCB does it but we're not looking for much and it seems to be a direct correlation between the scout value and the degree of accuracy. I recall buying 2007 (?) and turning most things off.

Nice work jimlynch to prove a point.

[cuervo72]

Put Izulde down for seven copies.

[stevew]

I do appreciate the pre-order period though. If I was going to buy it I am always a fan of saving money. I'm sure I will get version 12. It is just too much to expect everyone in a league to shell out 25 to 40 dollars each year. Or drop out.

[markprior22]

The thing that always got me was - while Markus made wizards to re-create leagues the wizards always took effect AFTER you created the players. So, if I wanted to create a league with logos and all the other settings and the re-start with no players, that was impossible. That stinks. I have a set structure that I want, why can't I just create new player databases within that template? It took about an hour to set-up - why do I have to repeat that process?


I love OOTP but this has always bugged me too. I spend time setting up uniforms, logos, caps, ballpark dimensions...all the options and rules. If I later decide I want to start the same league over, you can't just create new players. That certainly would be nice.

[stevew]

I'd love it if a much simplified online version was developed. Basically scrap everything that came out after 6.5. And just make a stable easy to use game that is fairly easy to follow.

Like I actually liked the 30 day free agency period and the offseason drafts. The current method is too cumbersome.

[JetsIn06]

I love OOTP but this has always bugged me too. I spend time setting up uniforms, logos, caps, ballpark dimensions...all the options and rules. If I later decide I want to start the same league over, you can't just create new players. That certainly would be nice.

Correct me if this is not what you're looking for, but why not save the initial game as a quickstart, then, if you want to start over with no players, load up the quickstart, release all players to FA, delete all FA.

If you want new players, assign fictional players to all teams, then schedule inaugural draft.

[stevew]

And something as simple as the financial coefficient has never worked for me. What I would like is to start a league in 2010 and have revenues gradually increase over time. So if I sign a guy to a progressive 5 year contract, by year 5 some sort of inflation will occur and it will be somewhat proportional to the amount of revenue at that period. Like how FOF does it.

[jbergey22]

Not even close to my point. The system doesn't work because I shouldn't have my scout telling me there are 4 5* prospects and be able to know which one is the real deal by using a system that is supposed to be much worse then mine.

From the standpoint of a game how does that design make any sense. I was under the impression that OOTP was trying to simulate what running a baseball team would be like. In real baseball you don't KNOW that your scouting department is wrong because either A: Baseball America tells you so or B: When you see that other teams aren't interested in a player you know your scout's rating is wrong

If you hire the best scout and spend the most money on scouting and follow your scout's advice, you will never draft any prospects until you are picking in the top 5 and get lucky, because any lower in the draft and you are plucking the players your scout is most wrong about. What about that system works?

If hiring the best scout and spending more money then the other teams in scouting amateurs doesn't lead you to drafting better prospects then how is the system anything other then 'broken'? Obviously you aren't going to hit on every pick, there needs to be some sort of scouting fog, but there should be a long term advantage if you align your resources towards scouting the draft with the best scout.

I agree completely with you on this part.

An average scout should be more accurate than OSA. OSA should basically be like a below average scout.

An A scout would have an error margin of +/- 10.(100 scale)
A B scout would have an error margin of +/- 20
so on and so forth.

Like you say it seems OSA is the voice of reason right now instead of the Baseball America type feature it should be.

Id speculate OSA is used to draft for the computer teams which completely defeats the purpose of scouts in the first place as either you have a team that drafts like a 12 year old kid would or as it is where OSA is more accurate than you scouts.

[markprior22]

Correct me if this is not what you're looking for, but why not save the initial game as a quickstart, then, if you want to start over with no players, load up the quickstart, release all players to FA, delete all FA.

If you want new players, assign fictional players to all teams, then schedule inaugural draft.

I'll have to give that a try.

[lynchjm24]

I agree completely with you on this part.

An average scout should be more accurate than OSA. OSA should basically be like a below average scout.

An A scout would have an error margin of +/- 10.(100 scale)
A B scout would have an error margin of +/- 20
so on and so forth.

Like you say it seems OSA is the voice of reason right now instead of the Baseball America type feature it should be.

Id speculate OSA is used to draft for the computer teams which completely defeats the purpose of scouts in the first place as either you have a team that drafts like a 12 year old kid would or as it is where OSA is more accurate than you scouts.

Markus is going to say that your scout IS more accurate then OSA, and I'm sure that it is if you took the average deviation between the scout and OSA versus the actual ratings. The problem is that you don't ever take advantage of the 'average deviation' because when you select players in a draft, you are selecting the outliers.

It doesn't matter that my scout was more accurate on say 25 of the 30 players who would go in the first round: I'm going to select one of the 5 that my scout is wrong about because the chosen player looks attractive because he's incorrectly scouted. If you play enough season every round of the draft has a player that sticks out like a sore thumb and it's obvious that he's the player my scout missed by 3 standard deviations. It doesn't matter that my scout is off by 3 SDs on fewer players, because it only takes one to ruin the illusion that the game reflects 'reality'.

[stevew]

Will Carroll likes how ootp scouting works.

[DeToxRox]

Put Izulde down for seven copies.

Well played.

[Mota]

There is really nothing there. More varied news stories? Create and print baseball cards?

I was sort of joking that the development period was short, but if those are the biggest of the new features then it's barely above a roster update.

Just don't buy it then. I'll be picking it up and I'll certainly enjoy these changes.

[Ramzavail]

I was going to buy it anyway. But I'm glad this made it back to the game from the old season ticket days.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/ootp11/screens/s1.jpg

[Sweed]

I was going to buy it anyway. But I'm glad this made it back to the game from the old season ticket days.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/ootp11/screens/s1.jpg

I've never missed it but am glad it's in for those that want it. I'd prefer hiring base coaches and let them make the call, with the ability to do it yourself if you wanted to. Then I'd have an ass to chew after the game when things didn't go well;)

[lynchjm24]

Just don't buy it then. I'll be picking it up and I'll certainly enjoy these changes.

So on a message board that is somewhat loosely based on discussing text sims, don't discuss them. Got it.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Will Carroll likes how ootp scouting works.
epic

[molson]

I didn't get last year's version, but I'm sure this game continues to kick ass in the simple, fictional, no-scouting, no-financials, no-feeder leagues I tend to run.

[SunDevil]

Still waiting for Markus's response to lynchjm24's comments.....

[Pumpy Tudors]

Still waiting for Markus's response to lynchjm24's comments.....
I might be grossly mistaken, but I have a feeling that those two have had the exact same discussion for the past 15 years in a row.

[miked]

I'm sleep deprived from a sick baby, but I still don't really get Lynch's message. In his brief test there, his high paid, high rated scout was much more accurate than the OSA, if I'm reading it correctly. Like I said, I'm in a fog, but I'd like it explained to me in the usual condescending way Jim is so good at. Please?

[lynchjm24]

I'm sleep deprived from a sick baby, but I still don't really get Lynch's message. In his brief test there, his high paid, high rated scout was much more accurate than the OSA, if I'm reading it correctly. Like I said, I'm in a fog, but I'd like it explained to me in the usual condescending way Jim is so good at. Please?

What worse? Condescending or passive-aggressive?

Let's say I'm picking first in that draft. My scout identifies 4 5* prospects. Based on why my scout told me, the best prospect is the ridiculously rated middle infielder. However, I can go to the internet, punch up Baseball America (OSA) and I know exactly which of the 4 to select, and of those 4 players only one of them is actually a good prospect (the starting pitcher - which is obvious when you look at the OSA ratings).

Let's say I'm picking 11th in that draft. Then I watch 10 teams pass on a 5* first base prospect who my scout thinks is a future HOFer. So, even without OSA, I know that my scout is wrong, because I know that the way scouting works in OOTP - it's never the outlier who is right, if you are the outlier you are always wrong. It happens in almost every round of a solo league with scouting on. There will be one or two players who are much better who all the other teams are passing on - and it's obvious why they are passing - it's my scout who is wrong.

So to successfully build a team in OOTP playing solo with scouting on the best strategy is to:

A. Use OSA to determine which of your scouts grades are legitimate
and
B. If you are picking outside of the first 5 picks in the first round, you NEVER want to pick the player your scout says is best.

It takes 5 minutes to set up a league and 30 minutes to simulate a half dozen drafts to see that if you have the best scout, budget the money for scouting amateurs and then actually follow the scout's recommendations you end up with one dogshit draft after another.

As for discussing this 15 years, I think this is only the second time I've ever posted about the issue in depth and I'm pretty sure the other time was on the OOTP board.

[miked]

Wasn't really be passive-aggressive, I just had no idea what you were talking about. Seemed to me your scout did a pretty decent job. There are interesting tidbits here, but I want to some testing. You inspired me.

[Mota]

So to successfully build a team in OOTP playing solo with scouting on the best strategy is to:

A. Use OSA to determine which of your scouts grades are legitimate
and
B. If you are picking outside of the first 5 picks in the first round, you NEVER want to pick the player your scout says is best.

It takes 5 minutes to set up a league and 30 minutes to simulate a half dozen drafts to see that if you have the best scout, budget the money for scouting amateurs and then actually follow the scout's recommendations you end up with one dogshit draft after another.

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, but the MLB draft is notoriously unpredictable. There's tons of players that have made it from the lower rounds, and a laundry list of guys that got drafted high and never even cracked the majors. Scouts are often wrong.

I think that your A analysis is quite fair. Don't use one source to determine your draft pick. You analyze a number of factors and make your decisions that way. I'm sure that in real life, GM's read the draft rankings and cross-index to their scout data before making up their minds.

I do miss having multiple scouts though. That way it gives you a better indicator that your head scout may be out to lunch, if all your other scouts are rating a player 1* and he is giving him 5*.

Hopefully with the added stats for prospects (hopefully that give you real indicators and not just random stats), the OSA rankings and your head scout ranking, you can have an idea of whether a prospect is good or not. It reminds me of FOF, if you just look at the bars it is extremely misleading, you have to look at the overrated / underrated, the combine scores etc PLUS the bars to help you determine things.

[lynchjm24]

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, but the MLB draft is notoriously unpredictable. There's tons of players that have made it from the lower rounds, and a laundry list of guys that got drafted high and never even cracked the majors. Scouts are often wrong.

I think that your A analysis is quite fair. Don't use one source to determine your draft pick. You analyze a number of factors and make your decisions that way. I'm sure that in real life, GM's read the draft rankings and cross-index to their scout data before making up their minds.

I do miss having multiple scouts though. That way it gives you a better indicator that your head scout may be out to lunch, if all your other scouts are rating a player 1* and he is giving him 5*.

Hopefully with the added stats for prospects (hopefully that give you real indicators and not just random stats), the OSA rankings and your head scout ranking, you can have an idea of whether a prospect is good or not. It reminds me of FOF, if you just look at the bars it is extremely misleading, you have to look at the overrated / underrated, the combine scores etc PLUS the bars to help you determine things.

There is no way that scouting directors are using Baseball America to inform their decisions. They are using things like Baseball America as a tool of misinformation so that the other teams don't know what players they are really on.

I guess I'm not getting my point across very well. I'm not saying that my scout isn't accurate enough and I'm not saying that I should have some unrealistic amount of success in the draft no matter how much I spend.

A: I shouldn't be able to use OSA to be certain which of the 4 5* players I should draft.

B: I shouldn't be able to tease out by who the other teams are drafting the players that my scout has not only rated incorrectly, but has rated high by multiple standard deviations.

C: If you the 3rd or 4th player on your scout's board in every round (except the first 5 picks of the draft), you will end up with better prospects then if you pick the player your scout likes best. This is because it is much more likely that those players are scouted appropriately.

It isn't a question of accuracy, it isn't a question of attrition of prospects - it's a clear design flaw with the logic around drafting players with scouts on.

[CraigSca]

It sounds to me that the problem is the deltas between the hired scout and the OSA. If your scout thought he was a first round pick and OSA thought he was a 2nd, that would be okay. However, if your scout thinks he's horrible while OSA thinks he's great, that's a problem.

Really, I would think scouting would work like this. The guys real rating is a 50. My scout has him at whatever +- 10. The OSA has him at whatever +- 20.

[stevew]

I'm sorry, this is ootpx on "LOW" injuries.

Is this even close to being right, this was 2 weeks worth of spring training

New York Yankees: CF C. Gomez was injured when his car skidded off the road due to poor weather conditions. The Diagnosis: elbow contusion. He's expected to miss about 5 days.
Thursday, March 21st, 2013
Boston Red Sox: SS Y. Navarro was injured while throwing the ball. The Diagnosis: hamstring strain. He's expected to miss about 6-7 weeks.
Toronto Blue Jays: 2B L. Soto was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: oblique strain. He's expected to miss about 4 weeks.
Colorado Rockies: CL T. Otani was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: finger blister. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 4 days.
Cincinnati Reds: SP J. Beckett was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: elbow soreness. He's expected to miss about 6 days.
San Francisco Giants: RF D. Belcher was injured on a defensive play. The Diagnosis: fractured ankle. He's expected to miss about 3-4 months.
San Francisco Giants: 2B E. Burriss was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: shoulder soreness. He's expected to miss about 3 weeks.
Wednesday, March 20th, 2013
Tampa Bay Rays: MR A. Rodriguez was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: torn rotator cuff. He's expected to miss about 7 months.
Monday, March 18th, 2013
Houston Astros: 3B A. LaRoche was injured while stealing a base. The Diagnosis: ruptured Achilles tendon. He's expected to miss about 6-7 months.
Florida Marlins: RF B. Jones was injured on a defensive play. The Diagnosis: bruised foot. He's expected to miss about 1-2 weeks.
Cincinnati Reds: SS C. Valaika was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: sprained wrist. He's expected to miss about 4 weeks.
Arizona Diamondbacks: C S. Coughlin was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: strained hamstring. He's expected to miss about 3 weeks.
Sunday, March 17th, 2013
Boston Red Sox: RF J. Reddick was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: separated shoulder. He's expected to miss about 3 weeks.
Los Angeles Angels: 3B E. Encarnacion was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: sprained finger. He's expected to miss about 3 weeks.
Los Angeles Angels: 1B K. Morales was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: groin tightness. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 1 day.
San Francisco Giants: SP S. Barnes was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: sprained ankle. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 2 weeks.
St. Louis Cardinals: MR B. Fuentes was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: partially torn labrum. He's expected to miss about 4 months.
St. Louis Cardinals: SS M. Izturis was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: sprained thumb. He's expected to miss about 3-4 weeks.
Atlanta Braves: SP C. Rohrbough was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: elbow inflammation. He's expected to miss about one week.
Saturday, March 16th, 2013
Tampa Bay Rays: CF B. Upton was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: shoulder soreness. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 2 weeks.
Tampa Bay Rays: MR J. Bannister was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: rotator cuff strain. He's expected to miss about 4 weeks.
Oakland Athletics: LF C. Carter was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: mild abdominal strain. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 6 days.
Florida Marlins: RF J. Hermida was injured while throwing the ball. The Diagnosis: strained oblique. He's expected to miss about 4-5 weeks.
St. Louis Cardinals: MR T. Norrick was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: sore shoulder. He's expected to miss about 3 weeks.
Friday, March 15th, 2013
Detroit Tigers: RF G. Gross was injured on a defensive play. The Diagnosis: sore hamstring. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 4 days.
Chicago White Sox: LF R. Pena was injured on a defensive play. The Diagnosis: sprained elbow. He's expected to miss about 1-2 weeks.
St. Louis Cardinals: C T. Cruz was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: thigh muscle strain. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 6 days.
Arizona Diamondbacks: RF J. Upton was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: groin tightness. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 2 days.
Washington Nationals: RF M. Bradley was injured on a defensive play. The Diagnosis: fractured fibula. He's expected to miss about 3 months.
Thursday, March 14th, 2013
Detroit Tigers: SP T. Stovall was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: herniated disc (neck). He's expected to miss about 2-3 weeks.
Detroit Tigers: LF W. Ramirez was injured on a defensive play. The Diagnosis: strained oblique. He's expected to miss about 2 weeks.
Baltimore Orioles: C D. Ricardo was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: sore hamstring. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 1 day.
St. Louis Cardinals: 1B R. Howard was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: groin tightness. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 5 days.
New York Mets: SP J. Karstens was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: torn flexor tendon (elbow). He's expected to miss about 6-7 months.
Milwaukee Brewers: 2B R. Weeks was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: ruptured Achilles tendon. He's expected to miss about 4 months.
Wednesday, March 13th, 2013
Baltimore Orioles: SP Z. Britton was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: elbow tendinitis. He's expected to miss about 8 weeks.
Milwaukee Brewers: SS O. Tejeda was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: hip strain. He's expected to miss about 3 weeks.
Washington Nationals: MR T. Patton was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: mild hamstring strain. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 3 days.
Tuesday, March 12th, 2013
Milwaukee Brewers: MR W. Peralta is ill. The Diagnosis: viral infection. He's expected to miss about 3 days.
Kansas City Royals: SP J. Blanton was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: mild oblique strain. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last one week.
Kansas City Royals: RF S. Costa was injured being hit by a pitch. The Diagnosis: bruised thigh. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 5 days.
Florida Marlins: 2B A. Gonzalez was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: hamstring strain. He's expected to miss about 2-3 weeks.
New York Mets: CF J. Gerut was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: broken bone in elbow. He's expected to miss about 7-8 months.
Monday, March 11th, 2013
Houston Astros: LF C. DeLome was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: ankle soreness. He's expected to miss about 2 weeks.
Colorado Rockies: C W. Rosario was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: sprained ankle. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 2 weeks.
Arizona Diamondbacks: SP D. McGowan was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: chronic back soreness. He's expected to miss about 4 weeks.
Sunday, March 10th, 2013
San Francisco Giants: SP W. Joaquin is ill. The Diagnosis: flu-like symptoms. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 3 days.
Detroit Tigers: CF X. Avery was injured on a defensive play. The Diagnosis: fractured hand. He's expected to miss about 4 weeks.
Baltimore Orioles: MR C. Ray was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: sore ankle. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 1 day.
Texas Rangers: 2B I. Kinsler was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: wrist tendinitis. He's expected to miss about 3 weeks.
Houston Astros: CF J. Austin was injured while throwing the ball. The Diagnosis: shoulder soreness. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 6 days.
Pittsburgh Pirates: MR R. Uviedo was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: mild oblique strain. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 2 days.
Milwaukee Brewers: LF L. Scott was injured on a defensive play. The Diagnosis: intercostal strain. He's expected to miss about 5 weeks.
Saturday, March 9th, 2013
Detroit Tigers: SS B. Douglas was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: quadriceps strain. He's expected to miss about 5 days.
Tampa Bay Rays: MR J. Bannister was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: sore elbow. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 6 days.
Oakland Athletics: CF C. Brown was injured on a defensive play. The Diagnosis: herniated disc (back). He's expected to miss about 2 weeks.
Washington Nationals: RF M. Burgess was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: sprained thumb. He's expected to miss about 2 weeks.
Houston Astros: SP R. Tucker was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: sore ankle. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 1 day.
Friday, March 8th, 2013
Minnesota Twins: SS C. de la Cruz was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: sprained ankle. He's expected to miss about one week.
Seattle Mariners: SP M. Cleto was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: torn UCL (Tommy John surgery). He's expected to miss about 13 months.
Florida Marlins: SS H. Ramirez was injured in a collision at a base. The Diagnosis: high ankle sprain. He's expected to miss about 3 weeks.
Chicago Cubs: C M. Cerda was injured while throwing the ball. The Diagnosis: mild oblique strain. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 2 days.
Thursday, March 7th, 2013
Kansas City Royals: RF C. Aldridge was injured while slamming into a car stopped at a red light. The Diagnosis: mild hamstring strain. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 3 days.
Colorado Rockies: SP J. Vazquez was injured while pitching. The Diagnosis: torn rotator cuff. He's expected to miss about 8-9 months.
Colorado Rockies: RF B. Rike was injured on a defensive play. The Diagnosis: sprained finger. He's expected to miss about 2 weeks.
Florida Marlins: LF C. Lin was injured while throwing the ball. The Diagnosis: back stiffness. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 1 day.
Arizona Diamondbacks: LF C. Johnson was injured while running the bases. The Diagnosis: quadriceps soreness. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last 3 days.
Wednesday, February 13th, 2013
Los Angeles Angels: CF C. Fuller was injured while trying to win a prize by knocking all the bottles over at the county fair. The Diagnosis: back spasms. This is a day-to-day injury expected to last one week.
Monday, February 11th, 2013
St. Louis Cardinals: S. Lewis has suffered a setback in his recovery. He is not expected to recover for another 8 weeks.
Thursday, February 7th, 2013
Arizona Diamondbacks: C J. Brashear was injured while taping a late night television show. The Diagnosis: high ankle sprain. He's expected to miss about 6-7 weeks.

[stevew]

That's 22 injuries of around a month or longer, in something like 15 days worth of spring training. This is on low. Admittedly I don't have any real life data to compare this too, but I'd have to wonder what exactly "High" is?

[JPhillips]

Everything is working perfectly as designed.

Welcome to Cooperstown.

[molson]

I want to know what TV show this is:

"Arizona Diamondbacks: C J. Brashear was injured while taping a late night television show. The Diagnosis: high ankle sprain. He's expected to miss about 6-7 weeks."

[gstelmack]

I want to know what TV show this is:

"Arizona Diamondbacks: C J. Brashear was injured while taping a late night television show. The Diagnosis: high ankle sprain. He's expected to miss about 6-7 weeks."

The Tonight Show. Jim Fowler brought a tiger on and it went after him. He tripped trying to scramble back over the couch to get out of the way.

[molson]

As for the injuries, I'm sure there's a lot more than 22 players who will miss more than the 1st month of the season, though a lot of those are carryover injuries from last season, or the offseason.

I can see having to exaggerate spring training a little injuries to get that effect. I'm sure the end-of-season stats are pretty good.

[molson]

The Tonight Show. Jim Fowler brought a tiger on and it went after him. He tripped trying to scramble back over the couch to get out of the way.

Either Brashear was one of the stagehands to help with animals, or the Tonight Show is really hurting for guests.

[lighthousekeeper]

I'm sorry, this is ootpx on "LOW" injuries.

Is this even close to being right, this was 2 weeks worth of spring training


This is a topic that has been raised and debated many times at the ootp boards, but ultimately the powers-that-be believe the injury levels are accurate, and they have data to back up those claims. If anyone is going to force a change in this, they will have to back it up with their own set of real data to prove that the injury levels are not accurate (if that is in fact the case).

[lighthousekeeper]

...scouting is broken...


lynchjm, here is what I suspect is happening regarding scouting in ootp:

1. all computer controlled teams do not have their own scouts - they instead rely on the OSA scout
2. if the OSA scout was horrible, the game AI would be even more out of whack because the teams would be basing their decisions solely on the poor OSA evaluations, which would result in a game that is even easier to beat - easier than the environment that you say is aready too easy.


i could be totally wrong. *shurg*

[JPhillips]

This is a topic that has been raised and debated many times at the ootp boards, but ultimately the powers-that-be believe the injury levels are accurate, and they have data to back up those claims. If anyone is going to force a change in this, they will have to back it up with their own set of real data to prove that the injury levels are not accurate (if that is in fact the case).

I've always thought the problem was a bias toward long term injuries. I don't mind accurate amounts of injuries, but it seems like there are way too few 3-7 day injuries.

[Rizon]

:popcorn:

[Sun Tzu]

Oaktown in the house.

[JPhillips]

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, but the MLB draft is notoriously unpredictable. There's tons of players that have made it from the lower rounds, and a laundry list of guys that got drafted high and never even cracked the majors. Scouts are often wrong.

Sure scouts are often wrong, but the draft isn't a random crap shoot. Guys drafted early have a much better chance of being big time prospects than guys drafted late. Overall scouts do a pretty good job of grading talent. Look at the draft round for BA's top 100 prospects for 2010.

44: First
6: Supplemental first, second
5: Fourth, fifth
2: Third, eighth, 10th
1: Sixth, ninth, 11th, 15th, 17th, 18th,
20th, 22nd, 33rd, 36th

[KWhit]

I've always thought the problem was a bias toward long term injuries. I don't mind accurate amounts of injuries, but it seems like there are way too few 3-7 day injuries.

I don't know if that's true or not, but from a gameplay perspective, I'd rather have fewer 3-7 day injuries than in real life, as I try to get through seasons relatively quickly, and hate having to fiddle with the lineup too much for day-to-day injuries, etc.

[Sgran]

to tell the truth, I would be happy if all they fixed was how my back-up catcher is automatically made the reserve short stop because he played there once in little league.

[Johnny93g]

to tell the truth, I would be happy if all they fixed was how my back-up catcher is automatically made the reserve short stop because he played there once in little league.

+1

[Bigsmooth]

Re Sgran:


You can already force players to only play a specific position in the player strategies area. Very cool feature.

[stevew]

that's for forcing them to start at a certain position, not for only at that postition, i think.

[SackAttack]

The Tonight Show. Jim Fowler brought a tiger on and it went after him. He tripped trying to scramble back over the couch to get out of the way.

I would've sworn the Masturbating Bear was involved somehow.

[stevew]

Jay Leno wanted the D-backs catching job.

[Sgran]

Re Sgran:


You can already force players to only play a specific position in the player strategies area. Very cool feature.

I'll give this a look.

When I'm playing single-player I just go into the editor and erase meager talents at silly positions to avoid this, but in a league I'm guessing that would be seen as tampering.

[SunDevil]

Still waiting for Markus's response to lynchjm24's comments.....

[bhlloy]

lynchjm, here is what I suspect is happening regarding scouting in ootp:

1. all computer controlled teams do not have their own scouts - they instead rely on the OSA scout
2. if the OSA scout was horrible, the game AI would be even more out of whack because the teams would be basing their decisions solely on the poor OSA evaluations, which would result in a game that is even easier to beat - easier than the environment that you say is aready too easy.


i could be totally wrong. *shurg*

I don't *think* this is the case. From what I've seen there is just too much randomness. If you take a case of a simple standard deviation away from the players "true ratings" it makes sense that there are a few guys in each draft like lynchjim is talking about (OSA max underrates, my scout max overrates) that aren't as good as my scout sees. Obviously because OSA can only be "so wrong" these players aren't as good as my scout thinks they are and we can easily identify them. How you fix that is probably a bit tougher. Sounds like we are looking for a system that says "great scouts should be wrong a lot less often - especially on established talent - and there shouldn't be such a wide range of difference when evaluating players". It's a very interesting discussion though. I booted up OOTP 10 on my new machine last night just to test how fast it runs and was immediately reminded why I play with scouting off. The difference between OSA and my scout on almost every player is huge and I just have no interest in trying to figure out which is right or subtracting x from y to get some sort of consensus.

That being said I do think Marcus gets a tough rap on this board and we hold OOTP to a higher standard we hold other text sims. When you strip out some of the "features" it's an incredibly solid, fun and stable sim and probably the gold standard today (other than FM). And at least he's made it customizable enough that you can take these features out. Let's take TCY - do we focus on the fact that it's a great, solid game or do we focus on the fact that some of the design decisions make it unrealistic and way too easy (e.g. as one of the lowest prestige teams in the country I can still sign ten top 20 players every year if I focus on academics for a few years at the start of the game)

[spleen1015]

What folks are doing with the new import FaceGen feature....

hxxp://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-11-general-discussions/193202-far-my-favorite-new-feature-facegen-real-picture-import.html

[molson]

That being said I do think Marcus gets a tough rap on this board and we hold OOTP to a higher standard we hold other text sims.

Ya, I think that's definitely true. He involves himself in a dialogue with the customers and suddenly people just get pissed at him at the quality of the game, throwing his (English as his second language) words back at him, etc. If he stayed off the boards and just considered suggestions without giving commentary back, the game would be treated much more kindly.

[JPhillips]

My problem has nothing to do with ESL issues. Marcus consistently claims most problems have already been fixed or aren't problems at all. If he stopped claiming so many things were working perfectly, but instead just thanked people for pointing out issues, you're right, he would be treated more kindly.

His customer relation skills hurt him as much or more than any problems with the game IMO.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

My problem has nothing to do with ESL issues. Marcus consistently claims most problems have already been fixed or aren't problems at all. If he stopped claiming so many things were working perfectly, but instead just thanked people for pointing out issues, you're right, he would be treated more kindly.

His customer relation skills hurt him as much or more than any problems with the game IMO.


but the issue remains...those issues he claims are "fixed", or "working as intended" are not what the customer base really wants.

[molson]

but the issue remains...those issues he claims are "fixed", or "working as intended" are not what the customer base really wants.

If something that the designer feels is "working as intended", isn't working the way the customer base wants, then they shouldn't buy the game. There's offering feedback, and there's badgering a guy who's not making their personally preferred game (whether that's a design decision, or just a technological limitation)

It seems text sims have advanced far enough now that they're criticized by people for any differences between playing the game and actually running an MLB team.

I guess I agree that he might lack some customer relation/English language skills (which ideally would be someone else's job anyway), and he admirably tries to be all things to everyone. Who just get them pissed off at him. Come to think of it, it's kind of odd that all of GDS's developers seem to have to be involved in all the message boards. I wonder if GDS encourages/requires them to do that. Maybe these companies should have PR/customer service people to deal with us.

[lynchjm24]

It seems text sims have advanced far enough now that they're criticized by people for any differences between playing the game and actually running an MLB team.


I think that listening to the lunatic fringe on the OOTP board was a mistake. They kept trading fun for realism and now the game isn't all that much fun.

[DanGarion]

It seems text sims have advanced far enough now that they're criticized by people for any differences between playing the game and actually running an MLB team.
What do you expect if the games creator calls it the most realistic baseball experience?


Maybe these companies should have PR/customer service people to deal with us.

Great we can pay $60 bucks a games instead of $35.

[molson]

What do you expect if the games creator calls it the most realistic baseball experience?



What baseball sim is better?

[DanGarion]

What baseball sim is better?

Not saying any are, just stating the reason why some might complain.

[molson]

Not saying any are, just stating the reason why some might complain.

When they say "most realistic baseball experience", I think they mean in terms of games. Actually running an MLB team is probably more realistic, and I don't think they would claim otherwise.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I think that listening to the lunatic fringe on the OOTP board was a mistake. They kept trading fun for realism and now the game isn't all that much fun.

I would not agree with this. I feel the game is very fun, but needs it's many loose ends tied up and secured.

[MizzouRah]

After reading over the improvements/new features.. I decided to save $10.

I just hope Markus has made it easy to just "jump" into a real 2010 MLB baseball universe.

[Big Fo]

I'd like the game to come with a second 2010 MLB setup that just has AAA, AA, and A squads for each team. All those rookie, fall league, etc. teams that make it add up to 6-7 per team are a pain imo plus they slow down the sim speed.

I always have to spend time moving the players on those minor league teams with promising futures to the minor league teams I'm keeping before simming the first game.

Another thing I'd love to see in the game would be a contraction draft, so the worst teams could draft first from a pool of players from teams I want to delete (I like having the same number of teams in each league so I usually get rid of two MLB teams and make it 14 in both AL and NL. It could also be fun to use in a fictional league to simulate some massive financial crash or something). It'd be a lot better than making them all free agents.

I'm looking forward to the game, it gets a lot of stick on this board but I always manage to get more than $25 worth of fun out of it, other than FM this is my favorite text sim franchise.

[Mota]

I always appreciate that you can convert your current leagues into the next version. I started my Canadian league that I build with 5 levels of minors (I did it by population centers), and have gone from 2006-2018 playing at least 3-4 games a week for my team. At this point my connection with the players is huge, I know these players more than I know half of the real MLB players. Basically from March - December OOTP is loaded on my computer (even if just minimized).

[MizzouRah]

I'm with you Big Fo.. although I do like the idea of HS feeder leagues that if the player is not drafted, he goes on to college.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Just a small update:

Development is going fine, I'm putting the finishing touches on the planned features. While doing this, I also revisited scouting, ran tests and found indeed a bug which resulted in the problems that Mr. Lynch stated. I just wonder how this did not surface in prior tests, the reason is probably that our tests were applied to the whole league, but the problem only applied to very young players. Anyway, this is of course fixed in OOTP 11 :)

Regarding injuries: We really have a lot of real data for several years, and OOTP matches this data very nicely, both in terms of total injuries and injury severeness distribution. It's just one of the things that feel strange when you can see all injuries in a report, which is different to real life where often you just do not realize how much players are really hurt. Or would you know that there were a total of 1500+ injuries/illnesses in MLB in 2008 for example? I certainly would not have guessed that :)

Cheers,
Markus

[CleBrownsfan]

Markus is THE MAN! This is why I've been a loyal fan of OOTP since 2001. Good stuff...

~cheers

[Capital]

I'd like the game to come with a second 2010 MLB setup that just has AAA, AA, and A squads for each team. All those rookie, fall league, etc. teams that make it add up to 6-7 per team are a pain imo plus they slow down the sim speed.

I always have to spend time moving the players on those minor league teams with promising futures to the minor league teams I'm keeping before simming the first game. .

I would like for this to be a quick start right from the beginning. I had to do this as well and I do dislike having to devote time to this process. 3 levels of minors is plenty for me.

[Crapshoot]

Pre-ordered. I'm jonesing for baseball again.

[Ramzavail]

All I want is an undo button.

[lighthousekeeper]

All I want is an undo button.

http://urbanmoms.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/04/undobutton.jpg

done

[RainMaker]

I'd like the game to come with a second 2010 MLB setup that just has AAA, AA, and A squads for each team. All those rookie, fall league, etc. teams that make it add up to 6-7 per team are a pain imo plus they slow down the sim speed.

I always have to spend time moving the players on those minor league teams with promising futures to the minor league teams I'm keeping before simming the first game.
Same here. Just a simple MLB universe that doesn't require a ton of extra stuff. Getting this to work and avoiding the fringe on their boards may get me back into this series.

[SunDevil]

Just a small update:

Development is going fine, I'm putting the finishing touches on the planned features. While doing this, I also revisited scouting, ran tests and found indeed a bug which resulted in the problems that Mr. Lynch stated. I just wonder how this did not surface in prior tests, the reason is probably that our tests were applied to the whole league, but the problem only applied to very young players. Anyway, this is of course fixed in OOTP 11 :)

Regarding injuries: We really have a lot of real data for several years, and OOTP matches this data very nicely, both in terms of total injuries and injury severeness distribution. It's just one of the things that feel strange when you can see all injuries in a report, which is different to real life where often you just do not realize how much players are really hurt. Or would you know that there were a total of 1500+ injuries/illnesses in MLB in 2008 for example? I certainly would not have guessed that :)

Cheers,
Markus

Markus, thank you for an update and fixing the issue brought up by lynchjm24.

[Drake]

I've pre-ordered. I think this makes the fifth or sixth time.

I keep getting my money's worth out of this game, so I keep buying it.

[gstelmack]

Markus, thank you for an update and fixing the issue brought up by lynchjm24.

My only real issue here is that if they found a bug in scouting, how about a patch for OOTP X to make scouting work correctly there? My concern with the OOTP development cycle is that any bugs that are found or recognized after the "last patch" are only going to get fixed in the next version, which leaves a very tiny window for the last version to get fixes. And as we've seen in FOF, sometimes in multiplayer it takes a while for things to rear up and get noticed, especially if other bugs are blocking them. And sometimes with such a complex game it takes a while to build up sufficient evidence to prove that something is actually a bug, and by the time you do you're probably just helping to fix the version you haven't bought yet rather than the one you have.

I'm not asking for fixes to OOTP 9, but I'd sure like to see a patch available for the immediately prior version when big issues are found and fixed for the current version. In other words, continue "maintenance" on 10 while 11 is the current version, then when you ship 12 drop maintenance on 10 and shift to maintenance on 11. Yes, there's probably going to be big debate over what's meant by "big issue" (like the crowd screaming about the wrong stripes on the uniform or something equally inane), but I'm pretty sure the scouting bug qualifies as one example.

OTOH, scouting doesn't matter much for me since my main leagues are the FOOL ones where scouting and other complicating factors are turned off, plus the finances are tuned to be mostly right, so whatever :D

[Sgran]

My only real issue here is that if they found a bug in scouting, how about a patch for OOTP X to make scouting work correctly there? My concern with the OOTP development cycle is that any bugs that are found or recognized after the "last patch" are only going to get fixed in the next version, which leaves a very tiny window for the last version to get fixes. And as we've seen in FOF, sometimes in multiplayer it takes a while for things to rear up and get noticed, especially if other bugs are blocking them. And sometimes with such a complex game it takes a while to build up sufficient evidence to prove that something is actually a bug, and by the time you do you're probably just helping to fix the version you haven't bought yet rather than the one you have.

I'm not asking for fixes to OOTP 9, but I'd sure like to see a patch available for the immediately prior version when big issues are found and fixed for the current version. In other words, continue "maintenance" on 10 while 11 is the current version, then when you ship 12 drop maintenance on 10 and shift to maintenance on 11. Yes, there's probably going to be big debate over what's meant by "big issue" (like the crowd screaming about the wrong stripes on the uniform or something equally inane), but I'm pretty sure the scouting bug qualifies as one example.

OTOH, scouting doesn't matter much for me since my main leagues are the FOOL ones where scouting and other complicating factors are turned off, plus the finances are tuned to be mostly right, so whatever :D

I agree 100%. I play a lot of solo OOTP and would love to have this fixed.

[stevew]

How in the hell can a draft happen and you select 12 catchers out of 26 selections(25 round draft, players created for 30 rounds)

Cmon. There has to be a way to prevent something this silly from happening.

I gather the scout(which is turned off) decides a catcher is the BPA that many times?

Can you at least look at this for the next game? This has happened before to me.

[Icy]

How in the hell can a draft happen and you select 12 catchers out of 26 selections(25 round draft, players created for 30 rounds)

Cmon. There has to be a way to prevent something this silly from happening.

I gather the scout(which is turned off) decides a catcher is the BPA that many times?

Can you at least look at this for the next game? This has happened before to me.

Agree, in the RWBL i have like 6 Catchers per minors level, and all them are garbage players.

[MizzouRah]

The road to release, first installment.

Created with Camtasia Studio 5 (http://www.ootpdevfiles.com/ootp/ootp11videos/interface2/interface.html)

I like what Markus has done to the interface!

[MizzouRah]

RTR #2

Road to Release 2: Player Comparison, Manager Notes, and Single Game Records - OOTP Developments Forums (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-11-general-discussions/194263-road-release-2-player-comparison-manager-notes-single-game-records.html)

[Tasan]

You know what I wished worked like real baseball? The Spot Starter role. In the MLB, a spot starter is a guy who makes the 2nd start in a double header, or the start the day after a double header, or a start if all your pitchers have been beaten the last week and are exhausted, not some random replacement of the 5th starter. Also, that guy should be the 1st guy in if your starter gets tossed in the first couple of innning, or just flat needs to be replaced after giving up 9 runs in 2 innings. I hate the way its used right now.

[stevew]

How about "strict order, but skip number 4 or 5" if an off day allows"

I don't think the "occasionally start highest ready" really works.

Or only start guys on 100% rest. I want my number one to go every 5 days

[KWhit]

I love the addition of single game records.

[DanGarion]

I love the addition of single game records.

It's like old school NHL on N64 all over again...

[lighthousekeeper]

The road to relase #2 is definitely getting me excited. Single game records + similarity scores are awesome additions. I'm gald I preordered when it was discounted. I was hoping the player comparison was going to use the Football Manager polar graphs though.

[MizzouRah]

Like every year, I'm excited again.. I just hope a nice MLB quickstart with just AAA, AA, and A are included with all the normal settings. Heck, I wouldn't even mind feeders since that is kind of a new feature or as least it has been enhanced.

I hate having to change all the damn settings.. reminds me of sliders!

[MizzouRah]

RTR 3: Drafting Realism Like You've Never Seen Before!

Road to Release 3: Drafting realism like you've never seen before! - OOTP Developments Forums (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-11-general-discussions/194328-road-release-3-drafting-realism-like-youve-never-seen-before.html)

[MizzouRah]

Love this tidbit: Even more exciting, a brand new feature allows unsigned high school draftees to graduate to college. Teenage studs are no longer at the mercy of the team that drafts them. If you won't pony up to meet their demands, they can take their game to the college circuit for a few years in hopes of boosting their future draft stock. And while you may be disappointed to lose out on a top pick, you'll enjoy watching players experience a realistic development path before they ever turn pro!

[CleBrownsfan]

Road to Release 7: A Cornucopia of New Features (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-11-general-discussions/194624-road-release-7-cornucopia-new-features.html)


I'm pretty stoked reading through the new RtR. This is by far what I'm looking forward to the most:

Dynamically Evolving Leagues
Those who play historic OOTP leagues are used to one of the game's great features (at least in my mind) - the ability to expand and evolve your league based on the information in the historical database. Run an OOTP historic league and you'll see it expand in '61 and again in '62 and every year thereafter. For those who may have run historic leagues in the past and had to make these changes manually, it was a big leap forward. Fictional league owners, however, were forced to make changes like expansion, rosters, schedules, and rule changes manually. That is, until now!

With version 11, OOTP introduces Dynamically Evolving Leagues. When you start a league with this option selected and run your baseball world, the game will dynamically make changes to the league over the course of its history. Some of the changes you can elect for the game to implement in your game include:

* Team Expansions
* Schedule Length
* Roster Size
* DL Length
* Free Agency
* Option Years
* Nickname Changes
* Relocations
* Waiver Length
* DH Rule
* Increase/Decrease Offense
* Increase/Decrease Pitching
* Min service lengths
* And more...

[Ksyrup]

I don't really care about dynamically involving rule changes so much, but the expansion and relocation/nickname change thing is pretty sweet. What I hope, though, is that this is not just built in randomly - that there's a "story" to be told that results in the change being made. In other words, a team might move because of poor attendance after a number of years of terrible performance. Not just after 15 years, X team picks up and moves just because you've got that option turned on and the AI is prompted to implement it, and a team that won it all a year earlier leaves town.

Also, I would really love to see FOF's stadium referendum feature built-in here, as it would be one of the ideal triggers to a team moving.

[CleBrownsfan]

I don't really care about dynamically involving rule changes so much, but the expansion and relocation/nickname change thing is pretty sweet. What I hope, though, is that this is not just built in randomly - that there's a "story" to be told that results in the change being made. In other words, a team might move because of poor attendance after a number of years of terrible performance. Not just after 15 years, X team picks up and moves just because you've got that option turned on and the AI is prompted to implement it, and a team that won it all a year earlier leaves town.

Also, I would really love to see FOF's stadium referendum feature built-in here, as it would be one of the ideal triggers to a team moving.

Per Markus:

Only poor teams with low fan support and a small market will move. It would not make much sense to see the Yankees relocate to Portland I guess

[Big Fo]

I hadn't seen some of the other Road to Release updates. The historical replay accuracy screen is a nice addition.

[Drake]

If this is even close to how Jim implemented franchise moves with FOF, I'll be happy. Every time I get 25-30 years into a solo career, I think about moving teams around to mix it up and see if they can be more successful in a different environment...and then I never do it because it feels inauthentic to do it from a God's eye view.

I also approve of the move to increase the frequency of players moving into the coaching/scouting ranks. I usually go through and pick half of the HoFers at random and pop them into coaching, but the dev curve for coaches is so slow, they're only ready for AA jobs by the time they're 80, so it doesn't do me much good.

[Shkspr]

How in the hell can a draft happen and you select 12 catchers out of 26 selections(25 round draft, players created for 30 rounds)

I gather the scout(which is turned off) decides a catcher is the BPA that many times?



If I had to guess, and this is only a guess, I would say that maybe the game gets to a point in the draft where it looks for BPA and sees a metric crapload of lousy players that all suck equally so it picks the first one from the list it generated. Assuming the list defaults to position order, this would pretty much always be a catcher.

[Sgran]

If I had to guess, and this is only a guess, I would say that maybe the game gets to a point in the draft where it looks for BPA and sees a metric crapload of lousy players that all suck equally so it picks the first one from the list it generated. Assuming the list defaults to position order, this would pretty much always be a catcher.

Whatever it is, it probably also explains why catchers are put into back-up roles on the line-up card. They're being overvalued somehow.

[CleBrownsfan]

OOTP 11 will be released on April 14th, April 12th for preorder customers! (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-11-general-discussions/194758-out-park-baseball-11-released-april-14th.html)

[stevew]

If I had to guess, and this is only a guess, I would say that maybe the game gets to a point in the draft where it looks for BPA and sees a metric crapload of lousy players that all suck equally so it picks the first one from the list it generated. Assuming the list defaults to position order, this would pretty much always be a catcher.

yeah, pretty much my guess too.

[Galaril]

One I would only think about buying if there was just a simple MLB league setup with just the MLB and maybe triple AAA. Players should also enter into the correct teams each season as they did in real life.
Also, I would love to see a demo.

[MizzouRah]

There is going to be a nice all in one mod released tomorrow as well - this time with real players that have been face-gened so that they age and change uniforms if traded.

[CleBrownsfan]

Looks like OOTP 11 is out for pre-order customers. I'm d/ling it as I type...

[MizzouRah]

Me too.. might be a long night tonight.

[lungs]

No All right boyz thread yet?

[spleen1015]

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/spleen1015/cal_ripken.png

Cal Ripken from the Historical Face Gen pack.