HT Question Re: Wingers

[vex]

Ok, I have to beef up my midfield for my Cup match. I am going to do this by moving my wingers towards the middle. Now, if they are moved towards the middle, do they function almost entirely as midfielders? Reason I'm asking is if so, I will just put my 2 best "B" team middies as "Wingers, moved towards the middle."

[the_meanstrosity]

Do you mean to make them essentially Inner Mids?

I don't know that this is a wise move. It may wreak havoc with your tactic. If you push too many players into the middle, you are essentially packing in a lot of players in a short amount of space. Not a very smart move if you're looking to have ball control in the midfield.

I've never researched this, but I don't think it's a good idea to move your wingers inside. I would have at least 2 players (left and right side) on the wing so that you don't cause yourself to lose by having an illegal tactic.

[vex]

Moving towards the wing and towards the middle are ok tacticly. The reason I am doing this is that I am mimicing the way the last person who beat him played.

[the_meanstrosity]

Vex,

Are you certain? I thought I saw a thread in the HT forum about making wingers into inner mids would lead to a bad tactic. You're free to give it a shot, but generally speaking it wouldn't be very practical in real soccer. So I'm not certain how practical it would be in HT.

[Nyarlahotep]

With them not adding to your attacks will yours be as strong as the last person to beat him?

[vex]

My attacks? Not quite:) But I'm lucky to get solid attacks anyways.

Here were his last ratings:

Hokuten
Player rating and Team formation
Midfield: passable
Right Side Defence: formidable
Central Defence: formidable
Left Side Defence: excellent
Right Side Attack: passable
Central Attack: brilliant
Left Side Attack: excellent


Here's the best I can get from my team:

Sidekicks
Player rating and Team formation
Midfield: inadequate
Right Side Defence: solid
Central Defence: excellent
Left Side Defence: solid
Right Side Attack: solid
Central Attack: passable
Left Side Attack: passable


So basically, it'll take something extreme to win here;)

He should PIC though, and probably with his "B" squad. I will be playing the 4-5-1, so my defense ratings should be excellent to formidable. The only reason his central attack was brilliant is because he plays a 3-4-3. I'm hoping that with my wingers towards the middle, I can manage a solid midfield and at least control the possesion of the game.

[the_meanstrosity]

Vex,

I'd go the 4-5-1 and I think you'll have a shot. I wouldn't mess with the wingers though. You may get some more opinions tomorrow afternoon when other regulars are online.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by the_meanstrosity
Are you certain? I thought I saw a thread in the HT forum about making wingers into inner mids would lead to a bad tactic. You're free to give it a shot, but generally speaking it wouldn't be very practical in real soccer. So I'm not certain how practical it would be in HT.

You might be confusing Vex's intention to play his winger with the instruction "toward middle" with the idea of playing with 4 inner midfielders (ie, 2 inner midfielders and 2 other players set to "extra inner midfielders). One is kosher, the other is not.

[HornedFrog Purple]

vexroid if you want to annoy the guy you're playing, play 4-5-1 with both wingers toward middle and both wingbacks defensive. In doing this you are shooting for a 0-0 to penalties. I have tried it before and it has worked. But you will get no normal scoring chances, from my experience it takes a special event to score.

I got yelled at via email from a Div II team in last years cup doing it. I lost on penalties haha.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally posted by daedalus
You might be confusing Vex's intention to play his winger with the instruction "toward middle" with the idea of playing with 4 inner midfielders (ie, 2 inner midfielders and 2 other players set to "extra inner midfielders). One is kosher, the other is not.

What's "toward the middle" supposed to accomplish versus re-positioning someone as an inner mid? Thanks for the heads up in advance.

[-Panther]

'towards the middle' makes your wingers play closer to the midfield. they're not middies and still get trained as wingers.
by doing this it requires more 'playmaking' for your wingers and less 'passing' I believe.

It might start to 'cramp' your midfield a little with both 'towards the middle' but it will definately damage your left/right attacks.

my A Team has a 49/45 left/right attack with them both on offensive, 45,41 on normal. If I play the left 'towards the middle'
the left attack goes down to 25/23. If I play the right 'towards the middle' it goes to 22/20:eek:

regardless which one I play towards the middle, if I did it, it would give my midfield a boost of about %4-7. mind you though, I'm not employing the greatest of wingers with playmaking.

I think your best bet to see how you would fare is by using
mybestteam (http://www.mycgiserver.com/servlet/groton.stayaway.MyBestTeam) and see what the general consensus is. only down side to them is you can't set players to a specific position without paying. just delete all players you don't want considered, set your repositioning/orders and see what it gives you. I'm not sure exactly what the %'s equate to in HT ratings. but a %49 (left attack 4 me) is anywhere from solid to excellent.

but then I've had a %38 with my B Team D and gotten a formidable on hattrick in my only loss so far:p

[-Panther]

Originally posted by the_meanstrosity
What's "toward the middle" supposed to accomplish versus re-positioning someone as an inner mid? Thanks for the heads up in advance.

repositioning a 'extra innder-midfielder' is making them a middie.
ie: you reposition your left winger as a middie, you basically no longer
have a left winger and your left attack will most likely be chit.
your 'former winger turned middie' will be trained as a middie.
you can ONLY reposition 1 extra middie. If you have more than 5 middies, you will NOT get trained that week.

you can ONLY have:

5 defenders (CD & WB combined)
5 middies (WINGERS & IM combined)
3 strikers

anymore in any of those positions and you won't get training.

so you can play:

4-4-2 (default)

2-5-3 (risque)
3-5-2 (best!)
5-3-2 (will prob. loose)
5-2-3 (you WILL loose)

4-5-1 (best chance of actually winning with only 1 striker)
5-4-1 (good for def. training but not much else)

I'd LOVE to see someone play a 5-5-0:D but they'd have to be utterly brain dead

yea I know I've probably started a 'mass kill -Panther' riot with the last 2 formation comments:cool:

I do use a 4-5-1 for B Team though

I think this is all correct but I 'could' be wrong.

[bbor]

So playing 4-5-1 with both wingers playing "into the middle" is illegal?

[-Panther]

Originally posted by bbor
So playing 4-5-1 with both wingers playing "into the middle" is illegal?

only if you reposition them to 'inner-middie'. if you just set 'towards middle' it's perfectly legal. will boost your midfield but reign terror on you left/right attack

[bbor]

Whew...i just played that for the first time today...would have been pissed if i lost out on training.

[-Panther]

there's only three repositionings:

extra inner-midfield
extra central defender
extra forward

you can only have 1 of each.
you can't have 2 extra inner-midfield's UNLESS you make one of
your normal middies an extra forward/defender

you can set both wingers to 'towards middle' both wb 'towards middle' and it would be %100 legal albeit cramped.

[bbor]

Midfield: poor
Right Side Defence: passable
Central Defence: formidable
Left Side Defence: solid
Right Side Attack: weak
Central Attack: weak
Left Side Attack: poor


those were my results with both wingers towards middle.

i lost 5-1...but i expected that :)

[-Panther]

I think it'd be good to get a couple HT vets on here and create a website about HT. it could house the FAQ, pics of legal/illegal formations with explanations, etc... it would help 'us' noobs with a 'visual' of what can & can't be done and the consequences.

I haven't seen any visuals about this on any of the primary HT sites
and I think it could be useful.

It could also be a 'central' site for FOFC Hattrick. FOFC Cup, seedings/winners, FOFC ratings etc... could call it FOFC Fed homepage of something. any ideas?

[-Panther]

Originally posted by bbor
Midfield: poor
Right Side Defence: passable
Central Defence: formidable
Left Side Defence: solid
Right Side Attack: weak
Central Attack: weak
Left Side Attack: poor


those were my results with both wingers towards middle.

i lost 5-1...but i expected that :)

what do you usually get for left/right attack when you play them
either normal/offensive? how did it help your midfield?

[HornedFrog Purple]

I entered the formation I was talking about in mybestteam and this is what it spat out:

Lineup strength
Overall:36.38%
Left Defence:44.32%
Central Defence:44.91%
Right Defence:42.11%

Lineup strength
Midfield:60.72%
Left Attack:19.53%
Central Attack:21.68%
Right Attack:2.92%


Thats with

defensive normal normal defensive
towards middle normal normal towards middle
extra inner normal

I changed the wingbacks to towards middle but it didnt make any difference.

I changed the inner midfielders to towards wing for both and that messed up the defense.

[-Panther]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
I entered the formation I was talking about in mybestteam and this is what it spat out:

Lineup strength
Overall:36.38%
Left Defence:44.32%
Central Defence:44.91%
Right Defence:42.11%

Lineup strength
Midfield:60.72%
Left Attack:19.53%
Central Attack:21.68%
Right Attack:2.92%


Thats with

defensive normal normal defensive
towards middle normal normal towards middle
extra inner normal

I changed the wingbacks to towards middle but it didnt make any difference.

I changed the inner midfielders to towards wing for both and that messed up the defense.

nice midfield. but it does kill attacks.

[bbor]

Originally posted by -Panther
what do you usually get for left/right attack when you play them
either normal/offensive? how did it help your midfield?

norm



Midfield: wretched
Right Side Defence: inadequate
Central Defence: solid
Left Side Defence: solid
Right Side Attack: inadequate
Central Attack: weak
Left Side Attack: inadequate

[-Panther]

Originally posted by bbor
norm



Midfield: wretched
Right Side Defence: inadequate
Central Defence: solid
Left Side Defence: solid
Right Side Attack: inadequate
Central Attack: weak
Left Side Attack: inadequate

decent mid boost wretched to poor (can mean the game at times)
it didn't seem to hamper your attack rating 'too much'
loss 2 on left side, that's the side you put 'towards middle'?

not 'that' bad a tradeoff. alot of big dawgs play one winger 'towards the middle' since mid is soooooooo important.

since I'm not looking to advance, only to be in top 3 I'll stick with
my 'wretched' mid for now and hope to be in race for top scorer:p

I'll take 1st if possible but only if I DON'T auto promote. I'm sure I can blow a qualifier.

[the_meanstrosity]

Thanks Panther and Horned.

I like your idea Panther on a FOFC HT site with tips, etc.

[vex]

Yeah, I was going to go with my wingbacks defensive as well, forgot to add that:)

The guy that beat him won something like 5-4 playing like this and this is his first year in Div. IV.

[bbor]

Originally posted by -Panther
decent mid boost wretched to poor (can mean the game at times)
it didn't seem to hamper your attack rating 'too much'
loss 2 on left side, that's the side you put 'towards middle'?

not 'that' bad a tradeoff. alot of big dawgs play one winger 'towards the middle' since mid is soooooooo important.

since I'm not looking to advance, only to be in top 3 I'll stick with
my 'wretched' mid for now and hope to be in race for top scorer:p

I'll take 1st if possible but only if I DON'T auto promote. I'm sure I can blow a qualifier.

That was with BOTH wingers playing towards the middle.

[vex]

So should I just go with midfielders as I am going to try this?

[-Panther]

Originally posted by vexroid
So should I just go with midfielders as I am going to try this?

if you don't intend to score i'd go:

WB 1: defensive
CD 1: normal
CD 2: normal
WB 2: defensive

W 1: towards middle
IM 1: normal
IM 2: normal
W 2: towards middle

F 1: normal
F 2: extra IM

you 'could' play IM 1/2 defensive if you wanted/could

that should give you a hefty defense and midfield

[vex]

Looks good, this is how I intend on playin it.