See a House Built (from the 'inside') - A Real Life Story

[mhass]

Read along as my family and I build a new home. I'll put as much or as little detail here as people would like.

Ground Rules
I haven't asked anyone involved with this for their permission to record this publicly. For that reason, I'll be using some aliases. I will respond to every question as best I can, but reserve the right not to answer them publicly for the same reason. I would appreciate it if those of you who know me or the details I leave out to not post them since I may be omitting them for specific reasons. Other than that, we're wide open.

Background
At the risk of boring everyone in the first post, I'm going to be as brief as I can here. I moved back to this area after several years of traveling around with one of the largest construction companies in the country. I was months from marriage and, for many reasons, found my current job to be a good fit for the two of us. We bought a two bedroom 1950's ranch and basically gutted the thing, rebuilding it to our exact wants. I had the time, vision and desire to do a lot of the work myself. In the end we had what we considered to be the perfect house.

BUT... Laura got pregnant in what seemed like a matter of hours after our honeymoon and her family visits us a great deal so two bedrooms quickly seemed pretty small. At that time, my parents, who lived nearby, were building a new house for themselves and they encouraged us to buy there four bedroom house. So one year after our wedding, we moved into our second home, the house I grew up in.

However, this house is not 'us' in the way the other was. The house is plenty big, but is probably too big. There is a formal living room that we never set foot in and a formal dining room we use about four times a year. We talked about major remodeling again, but with two kids now, I don't have the time or energy to take on the amount of work we put in to the last house. Additionally, the location of this house is a little farther from the city center which bugs my wife a bit. She likes the energy of the city and we are in an area that can only be considered suburban.

Going through some old school papers of mine, we have found sketches of houses and floor plans as far back as 8th grade. It has always been a dream to design my own house and I am constantly thinking things like "If I ever build a house, I'll make sure it has..." So the idea of building has been of interest to both Laura and I since the day we moved into our current house.

I work for a construction company whose parent company is a developer, namely a residential subdivision developer. About a year ago, they developed a new neighborhood very near our house on a nice piece of land with a lake and very close to my office. We considered buying a lot there, but couldn't get excited about it and it was equally or more suburban than our current house.

Well this year, they were delected as the developer for 16 surplus acres of land that a Civil War-era cemetary was looking to sell since they had 300 years of room and were financially strained. This is land a block from my old high school, four blocks from a grocery store, across the street from a major local hospital - in short, urban. Until this sale, it was set aside (largely for tax purposes I think) as a 'tree farm' or 'tree preserve' so is heavily wooded - quite a rarity inside a city. And, for those of you worried about it, you can't even see the graves from this land. It's separated by a huge ravine and acres of forest - more extra cemetary land. Anyway, we prayerfully considered the impact of moving and agreed this seemed like a perfect fit for us: location for her, a blank canvas for me and, we found out later, some very good friends moving into an older house about two blocks away.

I won't bore you with the details of the development itself, but once it appeared to be a done deal and was going to happen, I put the word out to the chiefs here that I was interested in buying a lot. One other person had requested one before me, so I was given second choice of all the lots and selected a nice half-acre lot on the outside of a curve in the street. My driveway will be very close to the yellow circle on this picture:
http://home.mchsi.com/%7Erihass13/wsb/media/ResStSm.JPG
You can see how thick the trees are for the middle of the city. The road bends around to the left here and ends. The hospital is through the trees to the right and my old high school football stadium is straight through the trees, across their tennis courts and one street. Friday nights will be cool! The cemetary is sort of behind this and to the left. If I get the whole list and remember to, I'll post some of the famous names buried there.

Development progress
As you can see, they've got the trees down in the roadway. That's about it thus far. They're hoping to have streets, sewer and water in by this September. That's when houses will start going up. Being on the inside of both the development and the construction will make this interesting I think. We'll see.

Coming soon:
Selecting the builder
The first meeting

Later:
The blueprints
'Siting' the house

[sterlingice]

Cool idea. While I'm still a few years off from having the money to even start thinking about a home, it should be an interesting read.

SI

[Gary Gorski]

Great idea for a dynasty - Im very interested in this read b/c I have always wanted to build my own home as well

[Radii]

This should be fun to follow. Good idea.

[Masked]

Two quick points

1) I will stop reading if you ever post another picture of a red circle on a green backgroud.

2) Omerta restarts in 3 days -- build fast :D


Good luck!

[mhass]

Cool idea. While I'm still a few years off from having the money to even start thinking about a home, it should be an interesting read.

SI
Don't think money isn't an issue with me. I'm sure that will be a point of discussion in this. There WILL be a budget for this house and there WILL be things I want that don't make it in to the final house. This house is intended to be slightly smaller than the house we're in and more energy efficient on less land with a tax abatement. Hopefully that helps financially.

Two quick points

1) I will stop reading if you ever post another picture of a red circle on a green backgroud.

2) Omerta restarts in 3 days -- build fast :D

Good luck!
I set the circles to yellow. ;)

[Celeval]

Extremely interested in this read. Good luck.

[RPI-Fan]

What state/area/city is this in (unless I missed it in the first post?)?

~rpi-fan

[mhass]

What state/area/city is this in (unless I missed it in the first post?)?

~rpi-fan
Western Illinois. Straight west of Chicago, on the Mississippi.

[mhass]

Selecting a builder
As I mentioned earlier, we ended up where we are because my parents built a house a few years ago. They were thrilled with their builder's work and he also happens to be a partner with our parent company in several real estate deals. He builds very nice, very custom, very high-end homes and, is an equity partner in this development. So, you say, done deal right? Wrong.

First and foremost, I'm not sure I can afford a builder of his caliber. His reputation is as the best, but I know you pay for that reputation. Secondly, he has all the work he needs and a more 'hungry' builder will, I think, give me a better pricing structure and (I hope) some more attention. Third, and this sounds petty but it's still relevant, I got the impression that he assumed I would use him all along and that turned me off. Last, I'm still a rebellious teenage at heart so I'm out to prove I can do it different, better, faster than my dad. Just kidding. Sort of.

So I began asking around, very casually, about builders before anyone knew I was thinking of building. I wanted a builder who worked in the exact city I'm in so they knew the Building Codes, inspectors, permit process, etc. I also, as I said, was looking for someone somewhat 'hungry' for new work who would appreciate my job.

I started by asking some people in the local Homebuilder's Association (NAHB) their opinions. They won't ever throw one of their own under the bus, so you can't expect to hear bad things from them. But they were very candid when I asked questions they could answer in the positive (e.g., "How long has X been active in your organization?" or "Does X build custom homes in my city?")

Second, I went on the "Parade of Homes" that they put on. It's basically a hundred or so houses that are finished or mostly finished that builders open up and for $5 per person you can tour them all. It's great for several reasons, but mostly you can see the workmanship of each builder and the level of homes they build while getting ideas for your own house. Best $10 I'll spend in this whole ordeal, I'm sure. I concentrated on the homes in my city since I wanted a builder that worked here. That narrowed my list down quite a bit.

Once I got that far, I asked around to people who would know. An ex-neighbor who built a new house, a cousin who put on an addition, the plumber who did some work for me and works in a lot of new houses, my parents' landscaper, and on and on. And actually, I told my cousin while he was in mid-construction to mention to his builder that I was looking to build - mostly to assure him of some good service. His builder was the same company that built the ex-neighbor's house so I went to see them both.

Here is the #1, most important, immutable law of new home builder satisfaction: finish carpentry trumps all else. What I mean by that is that even if you have been treated fairly on changes (which you must be) and have perfectly straight and vertical walls (which you should have) and you basement walls don't leak (which they shouldn't), if your miter joints pull apart or your crown molding isn't tight to the ceiling or your baseboard gaps off the wall, your house will look crummy and cheap. Finish carpentry is what you notice every day once you move in and it can both create and cover a multitude of sins. Builders know this and will try to use caulk to fill in these gaps if they're noticeable. Watch this because it, obviously, masks a problem and also creates a perpetual maintenance item since caulk will shrink over time. Quite honestly, if I had to choose between good finish carpentry and an honest builder, I'd choose not to build.

Anyway, I went to look at these two homes, with a careful eye on finish carpentry. Both were very nice and the whole house project was exceptional. The firm that built it is owned by two youngish guys - one who manages all the 'rough' work (framing walls, sheathing the roof and floors, hanging drywall, etc.) and the other who is a trim carpenter. I was very impressed.

The ex-neighbor spoke very highly of the guys that built it, even going so far as to say she and her husband "had a lot of fun" in the process. That's nearly unheard of. Score a big point for these two who I'll call New Guy Construction. My cousin, still in the middle of his addition, had a weak endorsement, but asked to hold off on final judgement until he had paid the last bill - a fair request.

But I had seen enough and heard enough to make contact with New Guy and set up a meeting. In the meantime, I got several more positive comments about them and decided that unless they pissed me off at the meeting, I'd give them the shot. Even if things went horribly wrong with cuz, I'd heard good things. We were going ahead.

[mhass]

The first meeting

As I said before, I was basically going in to the meeting with the intention of telling New Guy that I wanted them to build my house. I wanted the wife to meet them and make sure they weren't blithering idiots. They aren't.

Amos is kind of the front man for them and he did most of the talking. We met at a third-party draftsman's office. We'll call him Jimmy. Jimmy has the job of taking my sketches, notes, magazine articles and comments and turning them into the blueprints New Guy needs to actually build the thing. I'm not sure what this is going to cost, but the fact that he's not an actual architect means it will be cheaper than a full-fledged custom design.

Jimmy has the ability to pull the hard-to-explain wants out of people wanting to build, but I have some pretty clear ideas since I've been thinking about this since junior high. Laura does too, but hers are more a product of using our current house and finding inefficiencies and annoyances. Anyway, Jimmy is quite competent, but I don't plan on using the skills that earned him his high recommendations.

As it turns out, New Guy is building the house next to ours (left of the circle in the picture above and the folks that got first choice of lots) and we discussed some of the synergies they will realize by working in side-by-side lots. There are many, but it makes it much easier to keep subcontractors around if they have twice as many places to work. Even better, New Guy is going to buy the lot to the OTHER side of our lot and so could be working in three places in a row. This pleases me. HINT: managing a contractor is all about mitigating excuses. I am one and know this. With three places to work, I will literally be in the middle of New Guy's entire summer schedule. No excuses like "We were busy somewhere else" or "Didn't see that the electrician wasn't there today."

We got to see what Jimmy had drawn up for our future next door neighbor (who happens to be our family physician, Dr. C, and his wife and two kids) and it will be a nice complement to ours - two story, traditional, brick facade, side-load garage. Dr. C's garage will face our house which means we'll have his driveway between us. This is good because local side-lot requirements say that the first person in can build eight feet off the property line and the second person 12 for a total of 20' minimum between houses. But since he will have the driveway on the side of our mutual lot line, I'll get the eight feet setback, making it much easier to fit to the contours of my lot.

So we walked through the sketches I brought and Jimmy asked a lot of questions. I, in turn, asked Amos and Ike a lot of questions. Amos answered most of them, but I found myself valuing Ike's opinions more. I think he's too used to Amos answering for him. We'll see how this plays out when things get busy. Regardless, they had good answers to all of our questions and concerns.

Jimmy kept trying to 'improve' on my plan which annoyed me a bit. I realize he was trying to help, but I'm pretty sure of what I want. And, for some reason, he kept trying to add bathrooms everywhere. I think one per floor for public use is plenty.

We looked briefly through catalogs of basic things like exterior doors and shingles, but we're a long ways from needing decisions on those. We closed the meeting by Jimmy saying that he was "swamped" and that it would be a while before he had a draft of our plans. This was February so we had time. I just want to be ready when they start Dr. C's house next door. We know that won't be until September at the earliest.

Afterwards, Laura said she was very comfortable with these guys and was finally getting excited since we were close to something tangible. I agreed. It was, indeed, exciting.

[StanGunner]

This caught my interest. It's always rewarding to see how other people make out in these situations. I had a house built 8 years ago. We went with a modular and were very happy with it and now we are doing some remodeling on our own since our tastes have changed and the kids are out. Good luck and keep doing research and asking questions.

[mhass]

Two fast updates:

1. I spoke with Amos recently and he believes that Jimmy began our drawings this week. He relayed to me that he is pounding on Jimmy to do ours because he desperately wants to start ours with Dr. C's. This is good.

2. Our Exec. VP told me that the city is considering putting this development in an Enterrpise Zone. These are fantastic for people building because they waive all sales taxes on materials. Depending on the area, that obviously saves 3-6 percent on the cost of the home. So you can buy the home 3-6 percent cheaper or buy 3-6 percent more home. This too is good.

[JAG]

Very interesting read mhass. I'll be following your dynasty with interest since my wife has been dying to build her own home about as long as you have (and I woulnd't mind doing so myself). One question so far if you care to elaborate: what kind of questions did you ask the builders when you met with them?

Best of luck to you on the process.

[mhass]

One question so far if you care to elaborate: what kind of questions did you ask the builders when you met with them?
I probably messed up a little on this since I went in to that meeting under the assumption that I would hire them. They, of course, did not know this so I was not asking questions about their qualifications, experience or other 'interview' type things. The only 'tough' questions were ones like "Can you start as soon as we're ready and keep working on it until it's done?" and "What experience do you have with 'wired' homes structured wiring?" They answered those types with the what-you-want-to-hear responses. Bleh. We asked more technical or house-specific questions. Here are a few from my notes before the meeting. If you're interested in their answer to any of these, let me know.

1. [Laura's primary concern] How do you keep a house 'pest-proof'? That includes mice, termites and ants as well as the non-harmful pests like flies.

1a. Does exposing the sill plate [basically, sticking the top of the foundations out of the ground] 18 or 24 inches help pest control?

2. Give me your opinion on geothermal heat/cooling. Cost effective? Payback time? Maintenance? Local service people? Can it be zoned?

3. If the city allows, what size water service do you like to use? What if there is a lawn sprinkler system?

4. I'm not thrilled with the trend of very high ceilings. Any advantages beyond aethestics? Cost impact, generally?

5. Who is our daily, on-demand person of contact once we start?

6. Can we contract for some things ourselves? [It is not uncommon for the homeowner to buy carpet/flooring, painting and landscaping on their own. Also, since I was for a construction company, I get some pretty favorable pricing on things like concrete and crushed rock. I could potentially dig my own basement too.]

7. I'm more interested in having doors that keep out cold/hot air and bugs than ones that look pretty. How does that affect our choices of doors?

8. Is stucco or the synthetic equivalents feasible in this area?

9. Do people build wood-burning fireplaces anymore?

10. Can you install a skylight that won't leak in 3 years?

11. If we build a back porch, is that better to be on-grade or over a basement?

12. Will you buy my lot so I can fold that cost into my mortgage?


I'm sure more came up but I can't recall any at the moment. As they come to me, I'll post them. Thanks for the questions. I hope you don't have to build soon, JAG. ;)

[Cap Ologist]

Are you going to have an Omerta Control Center?

[mhass]

Are you going to have an Omerta Control Center?
And a tunnel to the river for moonshine runs.

[JAG]

1. [Laura's primary concern] How do you keep a house 'pest-proof'? That includes mice, termites and ants as well as the non-harmful pests like flies.

1a. Does exposing the sill plate [basically, sticking the top of the foundations out of the ground] 18 or 24 inches help pest control?

7. I'm more interested in having doors that keep out cold/hot air and bugs than ones that look pretty. How does that affect our choices of doors?

12. Will you buy my lot so I can fold that cost into my mortgage?


I'm sure more came up but I can't recall any at the moment. As they come to me, I'll post them. Thanks for the questions. I hope you don't have to build soon, JAG. ;)

Heh, you and me both. :)

I know pests are a big concern of Danielle as well (I guess termites aren't a concern in the Twin Cities though, which is nice), so I'd be interested to hear the answers for 1, 1a, and 7. 12. struck me as an unusual request (at least without having done any research on it, I would never hvae thought to ask it), so I'd be interested to hear the response for that one as well.

Those would be my primary ones, but if you want to share the others as well, I'd be interested to read them. I like learning about the process...although again, I don't hope to use it for at least 5+ years.

[mhass]

1. [Laura's primary concern] How do you keep a house 'pest-proof'? That includes mice, termites and ants as well as the non-harmful pests like flies.
Several things. One, they caulk every first-floor sill (the flat piece of wood at the bottom of a wall) where it meets the slab. Two, they put a vapor barrier (the Tyvek you may have seen on any new house) on the outside and another layer (think Visquine) on the inside. Three, in more 'pesty' areas, they treat the soil before they start. Four, they avoid covering any basement walls until they have time to settle and crack a little so they can patch/caulk/seal any potential openings. Five, they spray the house as soon as it's 'dry' (weather tight) to kill anything that wandered in while it was open to the enviornment. The first one does most of the work though.


1a. Does exposing the sill plate [basically, sticking the top of the foundations out of the ground] 18 or 24 inches help pest control?

Yes. The more the better since people tend to get large build-ups of mulch in the planting beds outside their house. This is THE WORST thing for pest infestations since the rotting wood attracts bugs and they are right against the house, above that sill plate line. Raising the foundation helps.


2. Give me your opinion on geothermal heat/cooling. Cost effective? Payback time? Maintenance? Local service people? Can it be zoned?

Wouldn't build a house without it. They said that the last house they finished (larger than ours will be) got a guarantee from the geothermal company that they would not pay more than $160 THIS YEAR in heating costs. They payback is about six or seven years. It is easier to zone though I don't think I got an explanation why. Maintenance is the same - just change the filter every month. Filters are standard ones available at Home Depot.


3. If the city allows, what size water service do you like to use? What if there is a lawn sprinkler system?

Not smaller than 1 3/4".


7. I'm more interested in having doors that keep out cold/hot air and bugs than ones that look pretty. How does that affect our choices of doors?

That takes us out of the French door category and steers us away from aluminum and wood doors. Steel and fiberglass seal tighter because they have less tendency to warp. There are gobs of doors available in steel and fiberglass and some companies even sell fiberglass that looks like wood.


8. Is stucco or the synthetic equivalents feasible in this area?

Stucco is out. The synthetics are used, but not very common.


9. Do people build wood-burning fireplaces anymore?

Rarely. Most people prefer gas and the fake logs. No mess, no wood chopping. Also, fireplaces tend to be more central in the modern house and people don't like carrying dirty wood all the way through the house.


10. Can you install a skylight that won't leak in 3 years?

Yes. When installed in a new house rather than as a retrofit, they are quite tight.


11. If we build a back porch, is that better to be on-grade or over a basement?

Over a basement if you want air/heat. Otherwise, it doesn't matter.


12. Will you buy my lot so I can fold that cost into my mortgage?

Sure. Do it all the time.

[mhass]

A quick development update

The street in front of my lot has been cut to grade. Assuming the density of the soil meets the proper specifications, it is ready to be covered with the crushed stone base for the street. I'm guessing, however, that the underground utilities will go in before that happens.

Here's a picture. Use the knarly old oak tree on the right as a reference point from the the pics in the first post. The pile of dirt on the left is topsoil that was collected to spread between the street and sidewalks for grass growth.

http://www.yesalbum.com/v001/mhass/resstmd02.jpg

[KevinNU7]

Great Dynasty, looking forward to more

[mhass]

Glad you like it.


I just got back from a meeting where the big-wigs set lot prices. Lucky me, my lot was ranked "most likely to soak it's buyer" and I'll be paying the highest price unless somebody decides there are employee discounts. Which they won't. It sounds, however, like the top end of the price scale will be within my budget for land. Higher than I'd liked, but still doable.

[sterlingice]

"Most likely to soak it's buyer"?

SI

[mhass]

"Most likely to soak it's buyer"?

SI
It was a feeble attempt at humor. They find my lot the easiest lot to overprice and sell to a gullible buyer. Mind you I was in this meeting and they all knew I have it reserved. They're pretty nice guys. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[3ric]

I'll be reading this, we're hoping to start construction of a house in the fall. Maybe it'll make it into another dynasty thread.

[mhass]

I'll be reading this, we're hoping to start construction of a house in the fall. Maybe it'll make it into another dynasty thread.
The side-by-side would be very interesting. Keep it in mind.

[mhass]

Some Tips I've Picked Up

There was another Parade of Homes here last weekend and we went again, looking for ideas to try and avoid. I ended up talking to a builder that has some business ties with my company and he was willing to pass along some tips, some of which I found helpful, some not. But I'll share the short version of them for the benefit of anyone here.

DESIGN STAGE (for the truly custom home)

El Numero Uno for this builder (who designs homes in-house) is to stop several times during each (3-10 at least) design meetings with a client. He not only asks them if they understand the design, but if he understands what the client wants. It makes the process slow and almost agonizingly detailed, but it is tragic to build a house and have the client hate it. But I've heard plenty of stories about people who end up sleeping in their guest room because someone designed something they hated for a master BR.

Also, have your designer stop at a point the builder considers "working drawings" (not fully detailed or completed, but a complete floorplan and rough idea of built-ins, fixture locations, etc.) and get an estimate. Go out to subcontractors and get as complete an estimate as possible. This does a few things. 1) Points out the information the people building the home (subcontractors) need from the designer in the final drawings. 2) Gives the homeowner a good idea of the budget so adjustments can be made. 3) Let's the homeowner see the house and sleep on the design a bit before anything gets built and changes become cost-prohibitive. 4) Allows the builder to make some material recommendations to the homeowner for things that had to date not been discussed (cabinet finishes, faucets, exterior lights, etc.) which tend to not be considered but still have price impact.

CONSTRUCTION PHASE

These are more technical in nature and may not apply to your locale or house, but are worth asking about if you build.

1. Forma-Drain - This is a piece of perforated channel that can be used as the form for footings. It greatly improves the drainage away from the foundation which reduces the chances of wet basements and foundational shifts.

2. 15/32" Roof Sheathing - Many builders use 7/16" on the roof. It may seem like 1/16" is not much to quibble about, but it has a pretty significant effect on sagging and snow-load capacity. If you live in snow-free areas and aren't using a heavy material (Spanish tile, slate, cedar) on the roof, you might be able to get away with 7/16", but I wouldn't recommend it.

3. Windows - It is a common place to skimp, but I would rather save somewhere else. Use a good brand of windows and use one of their better lines. Pella is the Cadillac, but Andersen and Kolbe & Kolbe make good windows too. Marvin is a tiny notch below Andersen. With energy efficiency, security and just plain appearance, you don't want to compromise here.

4. Foam the boxes - The most common thermal break (temperature breach in insulation) is the electrical boxes and wire cut-outs in exterior walls. A good builder will spray foam insulation in all these to keep the air infiltration down.

5. Vaccum - It sounds silly, but there are thre critical times to have the builder shop-vac the house. The first is before insulation goes in the walls. They should even vac the wall pockets that get the insulation. That dust will find its way back into the house otherwise. The second is before painting. Dust is the easiest way to ruin a paint job. The last is before carpet/flooring goes down. Once that dust is covered, it's in the house forever and will perpetually work up through the floor. Permanent dirt source in a brand new house.

6. Tyvek - Pretty common now, but demand it. It prevents water in the wall (mold problems) and keeps outside air out (energy efficiency).

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////////////////

I hope to give some ideas I have about general design and tips for making a house a little nicer in the near future. I've worked with and around architects for the last 10 years and I might as well pass on what I know about building design. Stay tuned.

[mhass]

The Drama Begins

Ok, so we knew there would be angst in this thing, we just didn't know it would come so soon. Somewhere above this post it says that Jimmy would be starting our drawings the week of Memorial Day. Amos told me this and I knew that it would be at least two weeks before I'd see a floor plan so I hung loose.

Well last Thursday, having heard nary a peep, I called Amos at 1:00 PM. There was a ton of noise in the background (his end) and he either couldn't hear or pretended he couldn't hear. I asked him what the status of the drawings was and he said, "I know for sure he's going to get to them next week. Hey listen, I'm in the middle of something here. Can I call you back later?"

I said "sure" and hung up. Now I was a little surprised at the news but not terrilby disappointed. I was, however, extremely bothered that ol' Amos hadn't picked up the phone to give me a jingle when he'd heard that Jimmy hadn't started ours. So I waited the rest of the afternoon and evening. No call.

Friday I happened to be in the neighborhood of Jimmy's office and decided I'd just cut out the middle man and drop in on him if Amos didn't call by 10:00 or so. He didn't so I did. Jimmy was totally straight with me - the family ahead of us had brought back a set of drawings that were almost done for what should have been touch-ups (a day or two of work). Instead, they'd scrapped the whole plan and started anew (two or three weeks of work). So we'd been bumped. Fine. No one could have forseen it and I"m not upset. He says he expects to start next week (this week as I write this).

I'm satisfied I'm not getting jerked around by Jimmy and head out. Well this morning, Amos calls me (four days late) and doesn't come out and say it, but is a little ticked that I went straight to Jimmy. I pretended not to notice his annoyance and repeated what Jimmy had said to me - the same thing he'd obviously said to Amos that morning - and told him I hadn't heard much so I just dropped in. He's ticked, I can tell, but since I've given the guy no money and signed nothing, I figure I've got nothing to lose. Well he ended the conversation by saying that HE'D be keeping up on Jimmy and HE'D let me know when they'd be done and HE'D be checking on the drawings.

I guess we'll see.

[Alf]

1. [Laura's primary concern] How do you keep a house 'pest-proof'? That includes mice, termites and ants as well as the non-harmful pests like flies.
----
So far, I would say that spiders is what is the more annoying :) And they can be big !

[mhass]

Rumor has it that Amos' wife took the kids and everything in the house and left. I'm not sure what that means for his business or his work, but I'll say it concerns me a little.

[JAG]

Damn. We should get him a FOFC account and have him post in the 'Worst Break-Ups' thread.

[Craptacular]

Didn't see this thread before. Hope all goes well. We designed our own floorplan and had a custom house built in 2003. It was A LOT of work, but well worth it. We've spent the last two years doing all the landscaping. We couldn't afford to pay someone else to do the landscaping and get the things we wanted in the house. We splurged on the master bath, Pella windows, custom cabinets and built-in entertainment center, fiber-cement siding, and a huge garage.

A few tips:
1. Put insulation in all interior walls for sound. We did most of them, but should have just payed a few extra bucks to get all of them.
2. Beware the temptation of solid surface countertops, like Corian. If you like granite for the look, go for it. However, we could probably replace our countertops five times for the price of doing Corian once.
3. If you have separate water service and sewer charges, and the sewer charge is the higher one, consider a second water meter for your outside spigots. Where I live, the sewer charge is three or four times the water charge, so the separate metering allows us to water the lawn, wash the car, etc, without costing a fortune.
4. Make sure you have a walkthrough with your builder when the house is framed to pick out locations for electrical outlets, phone and cable jacks, etc, even if those locations are already shown on the plans. Think carefully about the layout of your house, and make sure you have jacks where your TVs will be, etc.
5. Orangepeel and knockdown textures for the drywall added a ridiculous amount of money. We have a 2050 sq ft ranch, with a 1000 sq foot garage that was also drywalled, and it would have cost $2-3K+ extra for either of those textures, above and beyond the normal sand finish. Is it really worth it?? We put that money towards more useful things, like appliances, showers, windows, etc.

I could probably come up with a huge list, but I'll stop here. Feel free to post or PM me with any questions. Good luck!

[mhass]

Thanks for the great advice. It sounds as though we have similar ideas on where to spend money. Right now we're thinking of mostly laminate counters and little landscaping. We also are not crazy about textured ceilings/walls as long as the tape job is good enough to not notice the joints in the individual boards.

My wife sometimes sleeps at my parents house when I'm out of town and she hates how she can hear all the bathroom noises through the wall in the guest room so we'll probably put sound batt at least in the bed and bathrooms.

If I come up with some specific questions, I'll look you up. Thanks again.

[mhass]

Here's a little update just so you know I haven't forgotten this. I called Amos Tuesday to tell him I was coming by Friday to pick up whatever was done on our drawings. This was partially to let him know I'm frustrated with the slowness of this and partially because I actually need to start picking things out (like windows, doors, light fixtures). He checked with Jimmy and said that by Friday (the most recently promised completion date), there wouldn't be much to see, but that by Tuesday next week he should be ready. I don't buy for a second that he can turn gibberish into a plan in two days, but the point remains that I don't have anything to pick up tomorrow.

So I told him that I was upset and that I saw this pushing me into a corner if we're going to start in late September. He understood, apologized, promised that Jimmy had the drawings on his desk and that he was taking other jobs away from Jimmy because of my delay. Fat lot of good it does me, but anyway...

So I'm planning on having another update next week that explains the program (basic description) of my floorplan and maybe some pictures of the development itself.

Speaking of which, there are people working there now, but all the progress is pipe buried underground. Not thrilling. When the street goes in, I'll try to be there for pics.

[mhass]

The Drama Continues
My apologies for not updating you, but the past few days have been a situation in flux.

Back on July 13, I called Amos (mad) and told him I was going to be out of town over the next two weeks and that I wanted a copy of whatever Jimmy had done so I could start looking at windows, doors, etc. He kind of stalled, hemmed and hawed, etc. then said he would get Jimmy to mail me a copy of the completed drawings wherever I was going to be. He said they'd be ready on the 26th or 27th. I never gave him an address, but felt like I had things started on a roll since we'd met with those guys in February and I still had no drawings.

The week of the 26th went by and I was, indeed, busy out of town. Well last Thursday (August 4th) I stopped by Jimmy's office to get my drawings. He was out and I left my number. No call all day and I figured he didn't get back into the office.

Then that night Jimmy calls my house from his. I told him that Amos had said I'd have drawings and that I wanted them. He said, "I don't know why he told you that. I tell him every time he calls - which is about three times a day - that I haven't started yours and that there are two I want to get out before yours." Ugh.

He went on to tell me how he'd been promised some help from his employer, he was working 70 or 80 hours a week, everyone was mad at him, things were bad at his office and he hated it.... in short, he's pissed off and quit bugging me.

I told Laura and we agreed that someone was lying to us and that was not the way to start a project. I was gutted because I felt like it was probably Amos and I was so sure that his firm was the perfect choice for us. We talked a little, prayed a little, talked some more. She wanted to call Amos right there. I said I'd call him the next morning and tell him I needed to change something.

When I did and told him what Jimmy had told me he was furious. "What!? He just told me that he had the first floor done! I'm calling him right now." I managed to get my concerns in before he hung up, but he was stewing on the other end. We had our liar at any rate. Amos called back, said that Jimmy had hung up on him and that he was pretty mad too. I said I wasn't comfortable waiting any more and he agreed. So a manager at Jimmy's office promised Amos that he'd get our house on Jimmy's desk or that he'd find another draftsman. Amos still preferred to wait for Jimmy because "he's the best" but agreed that we'd been screwed too long and that he'd make sure we had a drawing in time to start late September or early October.

Fast-forward to today. Out of the blue, Amos calls and says that Jimmy did our first floor over the weekend. Unreal. Jimmy got the house he'd finished on Thursday back today for changes which always takes precedence so he thought Jimmy would get to our second floor late this week. Laura and I are going to take the kids to Denver this weekend to visit my brother and some friends, but Amos thought if we didn't have drawings by the time we left, we would have them early next week. Whew. Stay tuned for a write-up of the plans themselves next week sometime.

[KevinNU7]

update please :)

[mhass]

update please :)
Ok. :)

Just talked to Amos who actually touched my first floor plan today (yay!). Jimmy is working on the second floor and some exterior elevations of the front now. Amos was there to beat him up a bit which I'm totally in favor of.

Jimmy's office is part of a building supply warehouse and Jimmy's boss, the manager of the Contractor Sales unit, promised Amos a great deal on lumber for my house because of all this confusion. I don't buy it, but if it happens all the better.

Also, Amos says that Doctor C next door has put off the start of his house a bit due to some personal issues which means I have some more time before I need to start (to keep the two together). That's also good news. So if I get a drawing this week I'll have plenty of time to finalize a footprint in time to dig a basement right after the good doctor does.

I do have a bunch of pictures here, but they look exactly like the ones from April since all the work in the development so far has been underground piping. You'd be bored. Trust me.

[aran]

This is a great dynasty! :) I'm learning a lot about something i really didn't know a whole lot about.

You're a smart guy for really picking this people apart and trying to keep them honest. It sucks when people try to walk over you.

Best of luck.:)

[mhass]

This just gets better

Stopped by all excited to pick up my drawings today. I was seriously jazzed, pumped, geeked, whatever. Walk in and Jimmy says "Hass right?" Grrr. Anyway, I walk over and he dramatically peels the rubber band off a roll off crinkly, sepia paper and unrolls... SOMEONE ELSE'S HOUSE.

No kidding. He somehow got some files or papers mixed up and spent the last two weeks drawing some other guy's house. Not even a tiny resemblance (I don't want a 'turret' on the front of my house http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif). Big time downer. He apologized, said that had never happened before, blah, blah, blah.

Called Amos and told him to light a fire though I did a little of that myself. I'm bummed.

[JAG]

Unreal.

[Swaggs]

Time to give this guy the slip yet?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mhass, straight up -- if you let this fuck-up so much as touch anything else involved with this project, I will have grave concerns about your sanity. I'd even be tempted to jam a sharp stick into each of his eyeballs just to avoid any possibility of him even looking at my house again in this lifetime. If my choice was to continue with him or abandon the project altogether for the time being, I'd go with the latter without hesitation.

It's your call, I'm just saying ...

[Buzzbee]

I'd have to agree with JiMG here. How long has it taken them to do the blueprints, and even then they can't draw the right house. How can you expect them to do a good job building it when they can't even get the blueprints right? They may have done good work in the past, but it seems that things have changed and/or they have bitten off more than they can chew. At least that is the impression I get. You are there and know the details, but from an outsider's perspective it seems mighty shaky.

[mhass]

You guys and my wife are on the same page. You're all probably right. Firing people ain't my strong suit though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You guys and my wife are on the same page. You're all probably right. Firing people ain't my strong suit though.

Well, my schedule is a little tight right now, but for a reasonable fee, I might could free up a little time ;)

[StanGunner]

The longer you put it off the longer you wait on your new house.

[JAG]

You guys and my wife are on the same page. You're all probably right. Firing people ain't my strong suit though.

Fortunately it sounds like your wife might not have the same problem. :)

[Buzzbee]

The Drama Begins

Ok, so we knew there would be angst in this thing, we just didn't know it would come so soon. Somewhere above this post it says that Jimmy would be starting our drawings the week of Memorial Day. Amos told me this and I knew that it would be at least two weeks before I'd see a floor plan so I hung loose.

Well last Thursday, having heard nary a peep, I called Amos at 1:00 PM. There was a ton of noise in the background (his end) and he either couldn't hear or pretended he couldn't hear. I asked him what the status of the drawings was and he said, "I know for sure he's going to get to them next week. Hey listen, I'm in the middle of something here. Can I call you back later?"

I said "sure" and hung up. Now I was a little surprised at the news but not terrilby disappointed. I was, however, extremely bothered that ol' Amos hadn't picked up the phone to give me a jingle when he'd heard that Jimmy hadn't started ours. So I waited the rest of the afternoon and evening. No call.

Friday I happened to be in the neighborhood of Jimmy's office and decided I'd just cut out the middle man and drop in on him if Amos didn't call by 10:00 or so. He didn't so I did. Jimmy was totally straight with me - the family ahead of us had brought back a set of drawings that were almost done for what should have been touch-ups (a day or two of work). Instead, they'd scrapped the whole plan and started anew (two or three weeks of work). So we'd been bumped. Fine. No one could have forseen it and I"m not upset. He says he expects to start next week (this week as I write this).

I'm satisfied I'm not getting jerked around by Jimmy and head out. Well this morning, Amos calls me (four days late) and doesn't come out and say it, but is a little ticked that I went straight to Jimmy. I pretended not to notice his annoyance and repeated what Jimmy had said to me - the same thing he'd obviously said to Amos that morning - and told him I hadn't heard much so I just dropped in. He's ticked, I can tell, but since I've given the guy no money and signed nothing, I figure I've got nothing to lose. Well he ended the conversation by saying that HE'D be keeping up on Jimmy and HE'D let me know when they'd be done and HE'D be checking on the drawings.

I guess we'll see.

I told Laura and we agreed that someone was lying to us and that was not the way to start a project.
Perhaps this might serve as a little motivation to get your Donald Trump impression in order. Original expectation around the middle of June. It is now almost September. Obvious deceptions. This can't be who you want to build your house.

[mhass]

The update:

Talked to an architect friend whom I originally had thought would draw the house. Unfortunately his firm (then and now) won't let him do it for anything less than $5,500 which is way more than I can afford for drawings. He says that he will begin drawing my set on his own time for $40 an hour. If he finishes before Jimmy, I have a set. If Jimmy pulls a miracle (which no one expects at this point) and finishes before my friend then I'm only out a couple hundred bucks (which I'm hoping I can horse-trade for construction work at his house).

Also, I Amos stopped by my office to apologize again and is engaging yet a third person to draw them. The story there is, which I always feared, that this guy has a waiting list too. So three guys are potentially drawing my house. First one done gets the money.

The moderately bright spot is that I'm still not behind on anything and never expected to start until September.

And yes, this all means I pussed out of firing Jimmy. Guilty.

[mhass]

More News of Sorts

I called Amos a while ago and asked for some good news. He said he'd been checking in every day and wanted to have me plan on a meeting next week to go over the plan and provide some feedback. Super, great, grand.

Well, about 15 minutes later, Jimmy's boss called me and said that he'd just talked to Amos and Amos had ripped him a new one all over again regarding my situation and that he was about to lose the deal with me over Jimmy et al's screw ups. (minor point: this is totally true but I've never verbalized this). Apparently Amos was pretty harsh because the guy was unhinged.

He SAID he was calling to feel me out and see how grave the situation really was. He did indeed ask me lots of questions like that, but every time I started to answer, he jumped in with an excuse or explanation of how sorry he was or how hard Jimmy was working. Pretty quickly, I realized that this wasn't about him understanding my point of view.

In the end, the call was more or less to tell me that he understood that time was pretty critical and that he was taking the job away from Jimmy and giving it to a contract employee who is currently available. I've lost track, but I think this means that four people may or may not be drawing things for me right now. But anyway, this new guy is supposedly less precise, less insightful, less meticulous about details, but could generate a plan decent enough for me to at least get a price out of New Guy Construction.

My architect friend has spent about four hours on my job and has a footing design done. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Architects are so slow. He could have looked at any house built in this city in the last 10 years to find a footings design - it's not really something that has to be re-created for each new house.

Onward.

[sterlingice]

Ugh :(

SI

[mhass]

I officially fired Jimmy yesterday (are you all happy now!? :) ). On a whim I asked the lumber yard about local truss designers (roof trusses are usally designed for each individual house for local conditions like snow loading). That led me to a guy that happens to design homes on the side and who is available, of all things, now. He's coming here after work to meet with me and get my sketches, ideas, etc. Will start immediately. Details forthcoming unless the dog eats his computer or something.

[sterlingice]

So does that make 5 designers working on your house? I've lost count :p

SI

[mhass]

I've lost count :p

SI
Me too. That's why I didn't post it.

[JAG]

I officially fired Jimmy yesterday (are you all happy now!? :) )

I can't speak for everyone, but I am. :) Hope this latest guy works out. Keep hanging in there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I hope you won't be too offended to know that I've now reached the point of literally LOL with this. I think it was the dog-eating-the-computer that got me.

[mhass]

Someone near some wood knock on it because this guy was peachy keen. Says we'll have a plan in a week or so. There's no question he's less detailed than Jimmy, but he's going to actually draw MY house so I'm thrilled. Laura too.

[ausonny]

I've been following this thread very closely, as I recently purchased a lot and have been looking for a builder and a house plan myself. Glad to see that you finally fired Jimmy!

I've run into a problem as well in that my 2.58 acre lot won't perk for a 4 bedroom house. :(

Anyway, sorry for the threadjack, and best of luck with all of the architects!

[mhass]

I've run into a problem as well in that my 2.58 acre lot won't perk for a 4 bedroom house. :(

Does that mean that they locals want something bigger than a 4 bedroom house on 2.58 acres or that your 2.58 acres can't support something that big?

[stevew]

It means his land is not suitable for a septic system that will drain into the ground.

[stevew]

Good luck with the House too, Hass. Wontwed would have capped Jimmy a long time ago, glad to see that you followed suit :).

[mhass]

I'm trying to get back in there to change her backfire and testament settings so someone in Calamari can whack that tramp.

Edit: I get the septic thing, but I think there are commercially available systems that can help with that sort of problem. Talk to a local septic system installer if you haven't already. Keep talking until they all say no.

[ausonny]

Does that mean that they locals want something bigger than a 4 bedroom house on 2.58 acres or that your 2.58 acres can't support something that big?
It won't support something that big. They say there's not enough "good" dirt for a septic system large enough. The lot is in an unincorporated area about half an hour outside of Memphis and one county over(Fayette for those familiar) and the county government is trying to slow growth.

I found a new house about 10 minutes closer to Memphis, but still in the county over. The builder buys individual lots, and so we are looking at "trading" lots. We've worked out a deal on the new house, and I'm sure he'll want my lot, so that'll help pay for the house. I close on the 29th. The house is 4/5 bedrooms built on a heavily wooded 5 acre lot, so I'm getting more land, and getting the room I need in terms of bedrooms. The house is a little smaller than the one I wanted to build, but I'm very excited. Best of luck with your situation.

[ausonny]

I'm trying to get back in there to change her backfire and testament settings so someone in Calamari can whack that tramp.

Edit: I get the septic thing, but I think there are commercially available systems that can help with that sort of problem. Talk to a local septic system installer if you haven't already. Keep talking until they all say no.Didn't see this.

The answer I got from one of the builders I interviewed who is on the board was that pretty much there was nothing that I could do to convince them to let me build what I wanted, as the real issue is growth. There are a few options, including putting in a mound, but to be honest the house I was trying to build was going to stretch my budget as it was without the extra expense, and the house I'm getting is about 100k cheaper, more land and all. Once I found this house, it just seemed like a fight that I didn't want.

[mhass]

Since it sounds like we might be near a tangible set of plans on our house, it’s probably time to walk through some ideas on my ideas on the design of this house. I’m not sure how much info to provide but I guess if you get bored, you can just quit reading.

I want to start by saying that our over-arching goal for this was to create a house that fit our lifestyle more than we wanted to create something “impressive” to look at. As I’ve mentioned before, we have a perfectly nice house now that could accommodate us for the next 20 years. But there are huge blocks of it (like the two biggest rooms) that we never use. The yard is a little more than we care to handle, but it’s quite lovely and could be even something really special if a family that enjoyed gardening got a hold of it. Lastly, it’s very close to my office, but not that close to things that Laura and the kids frequent – preschool, play dates, doctor’s offices, etc.


In terms of design, my tastes have evolved over the years but tend to stick pretty close to traditional, timeless, styles. I guess you could call it colonial, but I’m not much for Roman entablatures or heavily floral wall papering. In the end, I’m interested in having a house that is not immediately associated with the decade in which it was built. Most people can recognize houses built in, say, the 50’s or the 70’s and recognize their age. The huge majority of the millions and millions of homes built over the past 10 years will stand out painfully in 20 years because they share some character traits unique to contemporary residential design – massive steep roofs, poorly though-out fenestration, brick/stone facades with plastic siding on the other three sides. I want a house that looks like it could have been built 2, 80 or 200 years ago.


There are volumes of theories on what makes a design interesting, distinctive or age-proof. Most of them, however, involve spending a lot of what I call “show” money on things that will cause a visitor to be impressed rather than welcome or comfortable. I want a house that makes visitors want to take off their shoes as soon as they enter, but not because of the beauty, but because it’s more comfortable. So, to boil it down to four items, I subscribe to a well-published school of thought that highlights three areas of emphasis for design – siting, public view, floor plan and finish details.


SITING
Siting refers to, simply, the way the house is situated on its lot. Some architects will tell you that you make or break a design on this component, but so many homes today are built on modern suburban lots of less than an acre with no trees or features and limiting widths. But the point here is to not concern oneself so much with the line of houses on the same street and put and face the house in such a way as best-fits the occupants of the house. That means that the bulk of the windows face the sun, the private areas of the house are shielded from the street, the biggest windows have the prettiest views and the house fits the best into the topography of the site.


For our house, narrow by today’s standards, I will probably have a few choices to make regarding its siting. The lot starts out gently sloping away from the street and then drops off very quickly to a nice little creek at the back. The creek runs next to a moderately busy street. The lot is a corner parcel on the outside of a curve where the street turns from north-south to east-west so the front of the house, if it faces the street, will look generally southwest. We haven’t yet determined if the house will sit close to the street or back in the trees. That decision will affect whether or not we can make the basement a walk-out. We will have the option of rotating the house a little to face more south or more west.




PUBLIC VIEW


Firstly, the public view is where the style of a house is identified. It’s where a design falls into the categories like Tudor or Mediterranean. I mentioned fenestration on the typical McMansion of today and once you get start to pay attention, today’s house really present an awful face to the public. That isn’t to say that people don’t concern themselves with the front of a house – they certainly spend the money there – it’s just that money doesn’t always equate to good architecture. Fenestration, loosely defined, is the layout of windows, doors and other opening across the elevations of a structure. “Good” fenestration would include a limited number of different sizes of windows, putting all the window tops at the same height and having some sort of regular pattern or spacing to it all. I also mentioned the gigantic roofs of today’s homes. Architects today compensate for that mass by breaking up the roof with a group of smaller hips but that’s a lot of money and I’m not a big fan. A flatter roofline will be a tad more timeless and less expensive. Lastly, people today tend to not use a lot of trim on the outside of a house because it requires painting and substitute fake plastic shutters instead. I don’t understand the shutter phenomenon since most of them aren’t even sized in relation to the windows they flank (they wouldn’t cover the window even if they were operable) so I’d rather see the trim.


I think we’re going to go build a house that lacks a readily identifiable style but has some traditional colonial elements and some other touches that I might call antebellum I started with a very European-looking house that I saw online or in a magazine somewhere. There was no floor plan or other information, just an artist’s rendering of the front of the house. I started about changing things I didn’t like, substituting materials, etc. to get to a front elevation I liked. We’ll see how it looks if this new draftsman puts an elevation on the first drawing.


Enough for one day. More to follow soon.
<o:p></o:p>

[mhass]

Well there's no dancing emoticon here, but I'd be using it if there were. In the middle of a meeting today my cell phone began ringing non-stop. It was all people telling me that the preliminary plans for MY house are done and that Amos was going to pick them up. I'm out of town until late tomorrow and then have plans all day Saturday, but sometime in the near future he wants to have a meeting to review them and allow us to elaborate on the things that are shown while giving a general picture of some details so that he can prepare a first-blush estimate of costs. Woo hoo! http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Barkeep49]

Congrats! This has been a long time coming!

[JonInMiddleGA]

For everyone's sake, I just hope these plans really are for your house.

If they roll 'em out & there's, I dunno, a set of Golden Arches prominently displayed in front of that universal MickeyD's architecture, I suspect the next time we see this mentioned is when the mass homicide hits the wire services ;)

[Barkeep49]

Actually it would be mhass homicide we'd be hearing about :)

[mhass]

I believe the first published news would actually be the divorce filing.

[Radii]

Congrats mhass, I'm still following along and quite interested here.

and...

Actually it would be mhass homicide we'd be hearing about :)


oh dear. That is truly painful.

[mhass]

It's true, it's true, it's all true.

Amos came by the office today and dropped off a set of the (correct) plans. Laura and I are so excited that I can't imagine the feeling when we actually dig a hole or something. In just a few minutes of perusal, I'd say there are some definite issues to address and we will. Most of them are a product of me giving the designers not-to-scale sketches so things I thought I had room for, I do not. All in all, however, we're both very happy.

Right off the top of my head, I can see that the kitchen is way short of cabinets and countertop space, the master bath doesn't have a true vanity for Laura and we need a place for the mop/bucket/broom/etc. I'm sure there are more, but I haven't studied it close enough yet.

One thing I'm very pleased with is the front elevation view. I put the floor plan together in my head and was quite worried about how it would appear from the front and I'll say that it's actually better than I hoped. A few window shifts and some material changes and we'll be set.

Laura is mostly concerned with the functioning of the house, but she's really on a roll with adding windows. Her tastes have only recently moderated from an extreme contemporary bent so she's really driving for natural light. We'll work on that too.

And speaking of windows, the only issue Amos had for me was that October 1 will see a big price jump in Pella windows. This would be the first example of the delay in drawings hurting me, but I think I can get to a firm window count by then. Or I don't buy Pella which is also fine.

More to come later.

[ausonny]

BTW, The last conversation I had with a builder was that materials cost was about to skyrocket as many building materials make their way to the New Orleans. He expected wood to be 6 times as expensive or more. I can vouch that drywall is up 50% at one place here. Is Amos expecting anything like this or the guy I was speaking to overreacting?

[mhass]

Lumber already jumped and I mentioned windows. Cement and drywall are the only supply-driven supplies as things like toilets and doors are so varied that I don't expect much price volatility. And lumber almost certainly won't jump %500. It's reasonable to expect things to spike now but lumber had dropped steadily all year so we've got some room to rise even to get back to 2004 prices.

[mhass]

Laura and I went to the Pella store today and browsed. Looks like our plan was drawn to accomodate standard Pella sizes which was a nice move since the non-standard sizes mean jumping up a line in the Pella family. If I could skate by on standard sizes (color may be an issue since there is only three options), I'll be a long ways towards making my budget.

[mhass]

More meetings

Actually, it was just one meeting, but we had it. Last night. The new draftsman who I'll call Kyle and Amos came to our current house to discuss major things we wanted to change (basically walls). I have to say that Kyle, for his supposed inferiority to Jimmy, did precisely what we'd asked him to do. He put on paper every item we'd asked for, even when you could see right away that it was stupid or impractical (like entering the house from the garage into the dining area http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif).

So we had some minor interior adjustments to make and one outside wall that moved (the mud room and the laundry room grew by 2 feet or so). Laura, being Scandanavian, is on a crusade to add windows everywhere possible so, for now, we've added quite a few windows around the sides and back of the house. We reconfigured some other small things and took three feet from a hallway and added it to the kitchen which was very cramped. At this point, we've not set a firm layout on the kitchen, but I think that's going to be a challenge. The kitchen is "landlocked" and has an opening in all four walls to each neighboring room. That really cuts into the wall space for cabinets and such.

Anyway, it went well. I did ask Amos some general questions about exterior materials like cedar shake roofing versus standard asphalt shingles (triple the cost!) and Hardi-Plank(c) siding versus brick (about the same cost). Both of those upgrades are out. My quote was "I'm not into 'triple.'"

The Plan
I realize I haven't spent much time describing the plan and it's obviously far too big for me to scan an image in or anything so I'll try to describe it narratively.

Picture a short, squatty, wide letter 'H' in your head. Then fill the upper 'goalpost' section in completely. The front or street-facing side is the bottom legs. The lower left leg is the guest room with, going up, a bathroom and then a (soon to be deleted I hopehttp://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif) exercise room at the top (may also become a living area if an in-law were ever to move in). The crossbar of the H is a hallway. Above the crossbar is a teeny, tiny room we call Laura's Office which is basically a walk-in closet with cabinets on one wall. Just a place for her to file important things and maybe keep cookbooks for meal planning. The rest of the area above the crossbar is the Family Room. The lower right leg is my office (nice http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif) which will double as a library of sorts for the family's massive horde of books and a small gathering area for no more than 4 adults. Going up the H and across the hall then is the kitchen. Hanging off the right side of the H at just-below-crossbar height is the public powder room. Then going up from there is the staircase, the laundry room and the mud room.

At this point, all this adds up to about 1,500 square feet which is about where'd I'd like to stay. We may add a porch of sorts across the top of the H and that's where the (recently deleted) dining area could go.

On the 2nd floor, the lower left leg is a child's bedroom. Then going up the leg is a Jack-and-Jill bath and another child's room (this one MUCH smaller since we don't actually have a child to fill that room right now). The crossbar is, again a hallway and the upper portion is an open playroom. As the kids age, I expect this to grow into a lounge type area and, perhaps, a billiards area if they are so inclined. But for now it will just have the toys that don't really have a home at our current house. The lower right leg is the last kid's bedroom. Then, going up, the hall and the (tiny by today's standards) master bedroom with a small area on the back wall for a chair. The off the right side and above the 1st floor powder room is a bath for the nearby kid's room, the stairs and then the master bath.

The garage is off to the top right and faces sideways so the doors aren't easily visible from the street.

That's probably a rotten description so ask questions if it's unclear.

Onward and upward. Another week for revisions, then it's money talk.

[sterlingice]

Isn't having windows everywhere going to kill your heating/cooling costs? Particularly where you're at (had to look, Western Illinois, right?)- it's going to have that temperate midwest climate that we all know and love where there'll be a couple to a few weeks out of the year above 95, just as much below freezing, and everything inbetween. I'm kindof on your side with the "no, we don't need a window everywhere". I'm not saying you should have no windows, but personally I'm just not comfortable with a house where the neighbors can see everything I'm doing. It's not that I have anything to hide- I'm about as boring a person as one would ever meet. But it's just creepy to me to have someone watching me watch CSI in my living room or eat cereal for breakfast or watch me posting on FOFC for an hour or something.

Second, what's a mud room?

SI

[mhass]

I'm with you on the windows. More for cost than privacy, but mainly because it makes it too hard to put furniture in a room that has a bunch of windows. You end up having to put dressers in front of windows or headboards across windows and I don't like it. Some will go.

A mud room is the space between the "family" entry and the rest of the house. Shoes and coats come off there to limit the dirt (or mud) that gets spread everywhere else.

[sterlingice]

Cool- never heard of the terminology "mud room" but I've never built a house before either :)

Yeah- "window on a wall" says to me "don't put furniture here". No one wants to be sitting in front of the sun in the summer or feeing the cold in the winter.

SI

[mhass]

A quick update here. I got a revised set of plans Thursday that showed the changes we discussed in the meeting the Thursday before. It is really very close to a final plan. This one has a basement plan which the other did not (we can't afford anything in the basement right now except roughing in for a bathroom in the future and the code-required mechanical room for the HVAC equipment) and has elevation of the two sides and rear of the house.

I got my job done for the window order by Friday, but the Pella office was so swarmed with similar customers that my order didn't actually make into the system. Amos sat in their office until 7:00 Friday night to make sure I got Sept. 30 pricing and I will. Nice to have an advocate. :)

My biggest problem right now is that each change we make seems to point out one other thing that I don't like. For instance, now that the master bath has everything we need, the master bedroom looks pretty tiny (it's actually smaller than any bedroom in our current house). Also, I'm really concerned with the stairway since it's three feet wide. I've not lived in a two-story house in a while, but that seems narrow for moving furniture as well as laundry baskets up and down (Amos says it's pretty standard). Also, the kitchen is a total question mark at this point, but I think we're okay for space.

So now I fear making a series of small changes to accomodate these concerns that might set of a chain reaction of other small changes and we spin out of control and lose track of cost or time. What we have on paper now is totally livable and I'm not even sure I need to make a change, but I'm not certain I don't either.

Anyway, I have to get Amos a couple small changes for the window order which will be formally submitted Monday and get the new draftsman any other structural changes this week for a new drawing so we can start taking bids.

That reminds me... we've ordered windows (or will tomorrow) and I don't have a loan or anything set up. Details, details I guess, but you'd think I would have had to write a check by now. shrug

[Craptacular]

Anyway, it went well. I did ask Amos some general questions about exterior materials like cedar shake roofing versus standard asphalt shingles (triple the cost!) and Hardi-Plank(c) siding versus brick (about the same cost). Both of those upgrades are out. My quote was "I'm not into 'triple.'"

We originally specified Hardi-Plank as an option, and were going to take it out after seeing what the price would be. However, we then looked at Certainteed's fibercement, and got a quote on that. If we didn't use fibercement, we would have had to add some brick to the front of the house (per deed restrictions), and add exterior plywood to the entire house (as opposed to just the corners for bracing), so you couldn't just punch a hole through the vinyl siding and rigid insulation. In the end, the Certainteed fibercement only ended up costing us about $1000 more than vinyl. The Hardi-Plank would likely have ended up costing $4K to $5K more than the Certainteed. From your post, I'm not sure if you're weighing brick vs fibercement, or both versus vinyl. I guess my point is to look at Certainteed instead of Hardi-Plank. :)

[mhass]

We originally specified Hardi-Plank as an option, and were going to take it out after seeing what the price would be. However, we then looked at Certainteed's fibercement, and got a quote on that. If we didn't use fibercement, we would have had to add some brick to the front of the house (per deed restrictions), and add exterior plywood to the entire house (as opposed to just the corners for bracing), so you couldn't just punch a hole through the vinyl siding and rigid insulation. In the end, the Certainteed fibercement only ended up costing us about $1000 more than vinyl. The Hardi-Plank would likely have ended up costing $4K to $5K more than the Certainteed. From your post, I'm not sure if you're weighing brick vs fibercement, or both versus vinyl. I guess my point is to look at Certainteed instead of Hardi-Plank. :)
I have a meeting with Amos and the architect today. I will bring this up. Thanks for the recommendation.http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[KevinNU7]

I know you are well past this stage but I thought I might bring this up.

You mentioned that your kitchen was land locked with an enterance at all 4 walls for other rooms. I'm not really a big fan of this. The kitchen is typically the most popular room in a house and the place where most people spend the most of their time. At the same time your wife seems to love the idea of windows. Combine the two thoughts and the kitchen should be located against the outside wall of the house so you can put some windows in. Just my opinion.

[mhass]

I know you are well past this stage but I thought I might bring this up.

You mentioned that your kitchen was land locked with an enterance at all 4 walls for other rooms. I'm not really a big fan of this. The kitchen is typically the most popular room in a house and the place where most people spend the most of their time. At the same time your wife seems to love the idea of windows. Combine the two thoughts and the kitchen should be located against the outside wall of the house so you can put some windows in. Just my opinion.
It's an excellent point and I happen to agree with you. I highlighted the part that, in my opinion, is driving the current design. Somewhere around here I have an essay on floor plan design that describes how I tend to think about layout and I'll try to print it here. But the core is that, like you said, the kitchen tends to be a "hub" for both public and private (parties and family) gatherings. So being "land-locked" is a function not of where you want to see when you're in the kitchen, but where you want to go. And that, as we know from our experiences, is just about any other public room in the house (dining, family, bath, laundry, etc.) So we put the kitchen right in the center of nearly every traffic pattern with access to all the public and private spaces you might hope to reach from the kitchen.

As for light, we've really opened up the wall between the dining area and the kitchen and the dining area is mostly glass. The trick to kitchens is that window light, while the most pleasant, is actually the worst for the cook since it comes from a fixed location and therefore the cook's head or body makes shadows on the work surface (the counter). Task lighting under the cabinets and over an island play a huge role anyway, so why duplicate it with the windows? I understand your perspective and most people would build a home the way you describe and be quite happy with it. But I feel like the natural light sacrifice is the trade to make for a very comfortable feeling floor plan.

[mhass]

Here's the street now. More to follow...
http://www.yesalbum.com/v001/mhass/resstmed02.jpg

[ibnsgirl]

This is anawesome dynasty!!
It takes me back to when my folks were building a shop at their last house. At 3500 sq. ft., it was twice as big as the house :P! It was a real guy-place, but was a nightmare as far as things getting done on time, inspectors, etc.
My husband and I intend to leave the area we are currently in, but we are not sure about buying an existing place or building. The whole idea of "Jimmy" makes pre-existing attractive, but the idea of getting (as much as we can) exactly what we want is nice.

[3ric]

Any update to this? Just curious.

[mhass]

Any update to this? Just curious.
Not much. It's cold, hard winter here and there's still not power or gas in the subdivision so we're using the winter to nail down fixture costs and such. It's been pretty slow since we got a drawing and I've been busy with family and work. We're planning on a Spring start now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not much. It's cold, hard winter here and there's still not power or gas in the subdivision so we're using the winter to nail down fixture costs and such. It's been pretty slow since we got a drawing and I've been busy with family and work. We're planning on a Spring start now.

Heh, I was just thinking about you & this thread earlier this evening, so great time for a bump.

Having had an offer rejected-without-counter on a house earlier today, we're now shifting focus to finding an appropriate piece of land to build what seems to be the one new construction house that would make my wife happy -- a copy of her grandparent's home that was torn down many years ago.

Of course, looking for land/lots kinda sucks too.
-- Found a great looking location this afternoon just minutes into our search, called up the broker ... land went under contract last week after being on the market for over a year.
-- Several hours of searching online turned up another possibility with a twist: it had a small (and unwanted by us) house on the acreage, but was priced very reasonably. We drive up to take a look, just to check the location. The approach to the property is perfect, large & elegant horse farms, good location all the way around. We top the hill that brings the property of interest into view and discover that it has a great view of the neighbors ... a couple of single-wide trailers that appear to be home to a rather motley collection of meth addicts. Put my new house there? NOT!

So ... this looking, figuring out, planning,etc. cycle sucks hard.

[3ric]

This (http://www.lissvall.net/bilder/Baby/051117/images/panorama1.jpg) is a picture of our lot, but there's not a lot of building going on here either... we have a building plan submitted for approval, and are still waiting for the go-ahead.

[Craptacular]

So ... this looking, figuring out, planning,etc. cycle sucks hard.
My wife and I started the process in winter '00/01. We spent over a year driving all over the county looking at houses and lots. We made an offer on a lot that had been on the market for almost 2 years ... the day after someone else did. We didn't increase our offer just to get it. After finding out we didn't get it, I resumed the search that same day. Found out about a new development in a village we had already looked at, and drove out there that night. We drove around shining our lights all over the place, and found a good lot. Drove back out there the next day to see it in the daylight, and bought the lot shortly thereafter (May '02). Spent a year designing and specifying the house, and built it in '03. From the time we started looking to the time we moved in, almost three years had gone by.

[Buzzbee]

Not much. It's cold, hard winter here and there's still not power or gas in the subdivision so we're using the winter to nail down fixture costs and such. It's been pretty slow since we got a drawing and I've been busy with family and work. We're planning on a Spring start now.
Hoping to see some progress soon. Hope everything is going well.

[3ric]

Btw, our building plan was approved Monday, and we hope to break ground in two weeks.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

pics plz k thx

:)

[mhass]

This whole thing needs some serious updating. Very long story short, no house, no lot, no pics. New job, new town, 'new' new house. Strange twist to this dynasty.

[Masked]

... New job...
Do they block www.barafranca.com (http://www.barafranca.com?)? Although most of us spend more time on Syrnia now.

Good luck with all the new stuff.

edit: interesting new board feature (maybe). It automatically turned the url into a hyperlink and of course included the ? to make it a dead link.

[oliegirl]

Do they block www.barafranca.com (http://www.barafranca.com?)? Although most of us spend more time on Syrnia now.

Good luck with all the new stuff.

edit: interesting new board feature (maybe). It automatically turned the url into a hyperlink and of course included the ? to make it a dead link.


The link worked for me...

[Masked]

The link worked for me...

Lots of edits :)

[oliegirl]

Lots of edits :)


Ahhh - that explains it...

[stevew]

Whats up? Long time no see MHass?

[Flasch186]

Well, my schedule is a little tight right now, but for a reasonable fee, I might could free up a little time ;)

LOL

I never wouldve painted you for the firing type ;)

[mhass]

Whats up? Long time no see MHass?

Well the short version is that I changed jobs in March which required a move out of town. So no building houses and no new subdivision. I don't know for sure, but I've been told that only two houses are being built there (out of 35 lots). Ouch. The whole deal cost me a couple grand for the builder's time and design.

We ended up buying a brand new house in the new town which was just a tiny bit disheartening since we'd been so close to having exactly what we wanted and couldn't get any of it here. So the dream to build a house still lives, I just know now to wait on the proper timing because if we had started when we "should" have, we'd have been stuck trying to sell a house under construction AND the house we were living in.