Patch...at least some word from Jim

[Blitzberger]

I have bought every game and know Jim will patch, but one thing that Jim lacks is communication when it comes to games and patches. This game rocks and I love it, but been over a week since release and some things had to be noticed with no playoff records, contract negotiations etc.. At least please give us an ETA when a patch is expected.. I spent my hard earned money on this game.

Again, I am a Jim fan but for such a release things could be better..

I know I will get slammed but oh well, I paid my money for the game.

[Ksyrup]

Judging on Jim's comment in the bug thread that he would only be able to do one major patch between now and the time his family moves in January, I would expect a longer-than-usual wait for this patch. I'm sure he not only wants to hit everything that's been reported, but make sure the changes don't cause new problems that he can't get too for awhile.

[Blitzberger]

Thanks KY, I did read that as well, but football season is half over and I know for me football love will soon turn to college basketball.. Anyway, please.. patch soon!!!!!!!!:confused:

[Subby]

'sup KY?

[highfiveoh]

wow

[Ksyrup]

'sup KY?

My move to Kentucky did not help, did it?

[gstelmack]

I have bought every game and know Jim will patch, but one thing that Jim lacks is communication when it comes to games and patches.

Disagree 100%. He's been active in the bug thread, but has had trouble getting feedback on some of the bugs. It is very clear that he is actively pursuing fixes and regularly checking for more reports. He also won't announce something that he doesn't have a date for; the reports of major issues are finally just starting to slow down, and he's still waiting for some info on a couple, so how can he know when he'll release the patch?

He's made it clear he's working on a patch, he's made it clear that he's checking regularly for new reports, he's been actively requesting info on some of those reports, so what more do you expect him to do other than wave a magic wand and hand over a patch right this instant?

[Solecismic]

Thanks, Greg. That was well said. I've been working around the clock on this, and it's getting there. I hope, but can't promise, something before the weekend.

Perhaps saying I'm going to try to get it out for the weekend, knowing that I can't do another one of any decent size this year, will help spur people to get in any remaining bug reports.

[Blitzberger]

I will not argue with anything.. please get a patch out soon buddy.:)

[Blitzberger]

I am a big fan Jim, but do to time constraints maybe you should not have release the game yet.. Do not take this wrong but was this money to make for your move? Seriously if you release a game knowing there were a couple of major bugs then you can't promise a release becasue your moving? That is questionable..

I have faith, but could left to be ? to some..

I know I will get slammed for this, but as a paying customer, I do have rights...

I do not really care what this forum public has to say.. because I can not find an email address on your website to file bug reports or complaints

[Izulde]

You have to look at this from a marketing standpoint.

It's the prime of football season, so this is when you're going to get the most sales.

Is the game unplayable? No. Are there some bugs? Yes. But no piece of software made these days is bug-free upon release.

[JPhillips]

Blitz: Hasn't Jim said the exact opposite? He's told us in this thread even that he's going to release one patch fairly soon and after that he can't do anything until 2007.


I have faith, but could left to be ? to some..

And this is a bullshit line.

[Blitzberger]

Yeah your right, I'm sorry.. Iam such an azz

[Joe]

I know I will get slammed for this, but as a paying customer, I do have rights...


You have rights to play the game you purchased, that is all

[weegeebored]

Hey Blitz, did you buy the game the first day? I'm assuming because you found this forum to bitch you read the threads here about the bugs before you actually bought it. So, you have a right to remain silent...

Oh, yeah I forgot. Jim's going to retire in Hawaii on your 40 bucks.

[DaddyTorgo]

Hey Blitz, did you buy the game the first day? I'm assuming because you found this forum to bitch you read the threads here about the bugs before you actually bought it. So, you have a right to remain silent...

Oh, yeah I forgot. Jim's going to retire in Hawaii on your 40 bucks.


oh SNAP

[Eaglesfan27]

I am a big fan Jim, but do to time constraints maybe you should not have release the game yet.. Do not take this wrong but was this money to make for your move? Seriously if you release a game knowing there were a couple of major bugs then you can't promise a release becasue your moving? That is questionable..

I have faith, but could left to be ? to some..

I know I will get slammed for this, but as a paying customer, I do have rights...

I do not really care what this forum public has to say.. because I can not find an email address on your website to file bug reports or complaints


I do find myself questioning your motivation, but I see no reason to question Jim's motivation.

He releases a game that has many great improvements from previous versions. While there are annoying bugs, there are very few if any "Game killers." Yet, he is working very hard to get as many fixes squeezed into the game in a 2 week post release window. He is imploring people to report bugs so that he can fix as many things possible, because he won't release a second "major" patch until after he finishes moving. Most big developers and many of the "smaller" developers don't get two "major" patches out for a few months regardless of the cause. Usually you end up waiting longer than 2 weeks for the first patch and months longer (if ever) for a second and subsequent patch. Many developers stop fixing bugs despite significant known bugs remaining because they need to start working on the next development cycle of their product. Yet, Jim has never done this. If anything, Jim should be applauded for wanting to fix as many things as possible within a 2 week window.

[Solecismic]

Thanks for your concern, but our bank seems fine with our finances the way they are now. If they're okay with them, you should be okay, too. Financial pressure from moves comes from current houses not selling. It's far too early to worry about money.

That is a fairly ugly accusation, though. I think it crosses the line. The company support email address is in our FAQ. If you have a legitimate support question, please email. Don't bother if you're going to continue with this tin foil hat stuff.

In general, the quality of the release seems pretty high. There are a couple of bugs affecting free agency acquisition that need fixing badly enough to warrant an early patch. There are scoring issues related to touchdowns on punt plays and penalties that result in safeties. Everything else is fairly minor, many items carrying over from FOF 2004.

I don't think I released the game too early. I had a longer beta period with more testers than I've ever used before.

[CraigSca]

Good grief.

Who ARE these people?

[DaddyTorgo]

Thanks for your concern, but our bank seems fine with our finances the way they are now. If they're okay with them, you should be okay, too. Financial pressure from moves comes from current houses not selling. It's far too early to worry about money.

That is a fairly ugly accusation, though. I think it crosses the line. The company support email address is in our FAQ. If you have a legitimate support question, please email. Don't bother if you're going to continue with this tin foil hat stuff.

In general, the quality of the release seems pretty high. There are a couple of bugs affecting free agency acquisition that need fixing badly enough to warrant an early patch. There are scoring issues related to touchdowns on punt plays and penalties that result in safeties. Everything else is fairly minor, many items carrying over from FOF 2004.

I don't think I released the game too early. I had a longer beta period with more testers than I've ever used before.

relax Jim. He's prolly a M-F fanboy who is upset you havn't added beer-tents.

[JPhillips]

Yeah, Blitz, you are an ass. You don't even have the guts to make your accusation, you hide behind the "some people" shit. If you're going to take cheap shots at least be man enough to stand behind them.

[wade moore]

Good grief.

Who ARE these people?

They come out of the wordworks at new releases - I tend to now fret them too much.

[Blitzberger]

I said I was sorry, I am just anxious for the patch.. My 40 bucks spent is well spent, I just do not throw my money out the window, I work hard for my money and I know Jim does to.. I bought the game before the posts were posted about the bugs.. I just do not understand whey the game was put out yet.. I have the right to question it as a paying customer..

I would not have bought every game if I was not a fan.

[DaddyTorgo]

I said I was sorry, I am just anxious for the patch.. My 40 bucks spent is well spent, I just do not throw my money out the window, I work hard for my money and I know Jim does to.. I bought the game before the posts were posted about the bugs.. I just do not understand whey the game was put out yet.. I have the right to question it as a paying customer..

I would not have bought every game if I was not a fan.

it's a virtually accepted fact these days with any game that there will be bugs upon release. Look at FM...they had a large development team and a large team of beta testers and there are STILL bugs on release. It's a function of the fact that no matter how many man-hours go into beta-testing with a game of any popularity that # of beta-testing hours will be quickly eclipsed upon release by paying customers banging away at the game.

[weegeebored]

I just do not understand whey the game was put out yet.. I have the right to question it as a paying customer..Do you own any EA Sports games? Why don't you amuse yourself by sending off a couple of dozen emails to them.

[NoMyths]

Thanks, Greg. That was well said. I've been working around the clock on this, and it's getting there. I hope, but can't promise, something before the weekend.

Perhaps saying I'm going to try to get it out for the weekend, knowing that I can't do another one of any decent size this year, will help spur people to get in any remaining bug reports.
Thanks much for your hard work on getting a patch out quickly, Jim.

I'm having a great time with the game, learning the new ropes, and holding off on my "serious" career until at least the first patch comes out. Just gives me more time to plot out the details of the league I'll be playing in.* ;)


*as opposed to the novel I'm trying to write...grr...

[wade moore]

it's a virtually accepted fact these days with any game that there will be bugs upon release. Look at FM...they had a large development team and a large team of beta testers and there are STILL bugs on release. It's a function of the fact that no matter how many man-hours go into beta-testing with a game of any popularity that # of beta-testing hours will be quickly eclipsed upon release by paying customers banging away at the game.

I think it's a pretty big statement that there have been no what I would call "game-killers". Some of the FA stuff is relatively rough, but not game-killing imo.

I think, especially with an indepenedent developer, that that is pretty rare these days.

[Cuckoo]

There are some little bugs, but get some perspective here. As compared to many I've purchased in the text sim genre of late, this game is a freaking rock.

[Blitzberger]

actually, no i have never purchased a EA game. With one hand being pretty much useless I can not play joystick games... As a paying customer I have the right to question. Now if you guys or the devoloper can not handle that, then you guys have a problem. I never trashed Jim, but just questioned the whole thing. I know he puts out a quality product, but this game was released way to soon. Several big show stoppers are there. I will wait the patch and support him as always, but half way through football season (pro) not just me, but people's game preference is going to change with Pro and college basketball season starting.

I have read other posts where people just trash Jim, I am not doing that.

I have read the posts where this forum trashed maximum football, not that I would buy that game, but you guys can not have it both ways..

[NYURDRMS]

Thanks, Greg. That was well said. I've been working around the clock on this, and it's getting there. I hope, but can't promise, something before the weekend.

Perhaps saying I'm going to try to get it out for the weekend, knowing that I can't do another one of any decent size this year, will help spur people to get in any remaining bug reports.


All I heard on this thread was "possibly this weekend", the rest is just blah, blah, blah.;)

[wade moore]

actually, no i have never purchased a EA game. With one hand being pretty much useless I can not play joystick games... As a paying customer I have the right to question. Now if you guys or the devoloper can not handle that, then you guys have a problem. I never trashed Jim, but just questioned the whole thing. I know he puts out a quality product, but this game was released way to soon. Several big show stoppers are there. I will wait the patch and support him as always, but half way through football season (pro) not just me, but people's game preference is going to change with Pro and college basketball season starting.

I have read other posts where people just trash Jim, I am not doing that.

I have read the posts where this forum trashed maximum football, not that I would buy that game, but you guys can not have it both ways..

Show stoppers? Like I said, I just don't feel there are any showstoppers. That's why I feel you are being too harsh on Jim here.

[Axxon]

They come out of the wordworks at new releases - I tend to now fret them too much.


What makes you fret them now if they didn't concern you before> ;)

[wade moore]

What makes you fret them now if they didn't concern you before> ;)

I tend to lack self control when they carry on for too long ;)..

[Izulde]

I have read the posts where this forum trashed maximum football, not that I would buy that game, but you guys can not have it both ways..

Maximum Football only got really trashed after the developer engaged in some really pisspoor public relations tactics.

Overall, this community is willing to support an indie developer, but there's that old cliche about biting hands and feeding...

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Uh, you accused him of getting money ahead of time to help him with his move. WTF was that? That was a cheap shot and nothing else.

Anyways, from a guy who complains there is no email on Jim's website when there clearly is, your criticism leaves a lot to be desired.

I've emailed Jim twice and gotten prompt feedback. Moreover, he actually fixed something (that was pretty much just my problem on my laptop) with the design of the game from the demo to the release (which was about 4-5 days).

[JonInMiddleGA]

I have the right to question it as a paying customer..

Actually, you have as much right to question it here as the owner of the forum allows. No more, no less.

Having read through this thread, I don't see that you've done/said anything remotely unreasonable ... but if you think you aren't going to be assailed by the kiss-Jim's-ass club for daring to speak bluntly, you're out of your fucking mind.

[Axxon]

Actually, you have as much right to question it here as the owner of the forum allows. No more, no less.

Having read through this thread, I don't see that you've done/said anything remotely unreasonable ... but if you think you aren't going to be assailed by the kiss-Jim's-ass club for daring to speak bluntly, you're out of your fucking mind.


So you think questioning the integrity of the developer reasonable? That's the only thing I find unreasonable but it's pretty obviously unreasonable.

It's sad that you equate common human courtesy as ass kissing. It's not surprising but it's damned sad.

[JPhillips]

Blitz: Your first post was fine. The post about Jim in effect stealing money to help with his move was bullshit. It had nothing to do with the game. You couldn't even stand behind that, but instead used the "some people" routine.

I disagree with your take on the game, but you can have whatever problems with it you want. Jim's a big boy and he can handle it. But when you start leveling accusations with no basis in fact you're going to get called on it. If you can't accept that you shouldn't throw out baseless charges.

And looking back through the thread the only apology I see is less than sincere.

[Blitzberger]

As a consumer, I have the right to say what I feel. I did not say he was stealing, I still support the game. At least from my post I received a comment from Jim on what was going on. It is a free country as well it is free for you to trash my post. I can accept that. The game was just not ready to release. Maybe more beta testers would help out. I do support my original post, I do think this is a great game, just needs a patch soon. This game is great and will continue to say so, just needs a patch before people get on with basketball. Well maybe I will be early since the steelers really stink this season.

Patience is not a virtue for me.. I want it now dant it

[Axxon]

This game is great and will continue to say so, just needs a patch before people get on with basketball. Well maybe I will be early since the steelers really stink this season.


Ah, a malcontent AND a bandwagoner... ;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

So you think questioning the integrity of the developer reasonable?

Absolutely. And that's not about Jim, that's a very general observation. Rushing a product for cash flow reasons isn't exactly unheard of in the game industry nor in a whole bunch of totally unrelated industries. It happens.

It's the customer's money, and AFAIC he has as much right to raise the possibility as Jim does to defend against it. Personally I don't think that cash flow is the root of the problems that are being reported, but I don't find it unreasonable for someone to wonder whether it played a role either. Bottom line is that if you put out a product with bugs, then you're going to take some shots.

It's sad that you equate common human courtesy as ass kissing.

People tripping over each other to attack someone who raised what seems
to me to be a reasonable concern extends far beyond "common human courtesy". And fanboys aren't exactly an undiscovered species in this genre either.

[gstelmack]

It's a function of the fact that no matter how many man-hours go into beta-testing with a game of any popularity that # of beta-testing hours will be quickly eclipsed upon release by paying customers banging away at the game.

Quoting this as a critical piece to understanding game development. Orders of magnitude more testing goes on the instant a game is shipped than can possibly be done beforehand. And it's amazing how those people will find "interesting" ways of using your features that you never dreamed were possible.

[Axxon]

Absolutely. And that's not about Jim, that's a very general observation.

Hmm, let's take a look, shall we?


Do not take this wrong but was this money to make for your move? Seriously if you release a game knowing there were a couple of major bugs then you can't promise a release becasue your moving?

I don't know how they teach it in Ga but you certainly doesn't sound very general. It's pretty darned specifically directed at one person.



People tripping over each other to attack someone who raised what seems
to me to be a reasonable concern extends far beyond "common human courtesy". And fanboys aren't exactly an undiscovered species in this genre either.

Ah yes, I forgot, Jon, ever vigilant against anyone liking a product and saying so. Forgot about that. It's ok to take shots at the developer and to question his motives but if you actually like a product Jon is always there to take you to task.

[gstelmack]

People tripping over each other to attack someone who raised what seems to me to be a reasonable concern

Well, the original concern was that Jim wasn't communicating about the patch. Given Jim's activity in the bug thread, I'd say that was a pretty baseless attack.

[DaddyTorgo]

Quoting this as a critical piece to understanding game development. Orders of magnitude more testing goes on the instant a game is shipped than can possibly be done beforehand. And it's amazing how those people will find "interesting" ways of using your features that you never dreamed were possible.

exactly. i've come to expect this with pretty much any game that I buy, no matter the price, as long as it's not coming from a EA or a Fireaxis or the like (and often even then, although the bugs are typically things you end up having to work around then, as you'll be lucky to see a patch).

[Galaxy]

It is a free country as well it is free for you to trash my post. The game was just not ready to release. Maybe more beta testers would help out. I do support my original post, I do think this is a great game, just needs a patch soon. This game is great and will continue to say so, just needs a patch before people get on with basketball. Well maybe I will be early since the steelers really stink this season.

Patience is not a virtue for me.. I want it now dant it

Your wrong on the free country part in relation to this message board.

But anyways, if you have played the previous versions, has Jim always had some bugs (and a little more on a showstopper versin?)? Has he always fixed them and provided updates? You seem so suprised the game isn't perfect. Also, if you knew about this forum, you would have to expect people would provide some serious feedback on the game. I waited until I heard about the game, then purchased it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't know how they teach it in Ga but you certainly doesn't sound very general. It's pretty darned specifically directed at one person.

I meant my finding the concern reasonable was general, not that the original poster was speaking generally. Sorry if that was confusing to you.

[Axxon]

I meant my finding the concern reasonable was general, not that the original poster was speaking generally. Sorry if that was confusing to you.

OK, I can understand what you wrote in that context.

I don't agree though that airing such musings with no tangible basis is reasonable since you're casting aspersions at someone's reputation unfairly and quite possibly incorrectly and thus failing the common human courtesy test. It's a crappy thing to do without any basis.

Of course, what with it being election season I can see where your perceptions of what is tolerable might be a little skewed.

[Anthony]

Absolutely. And that's not about Jim, that's a very general observation. Rushing a product for cash flow reasons isn't exactly unheard of in the game industry nor in a whole bunch of totally unrelated industries. It happens.

It's the customer's money, and AFAIC he has as much right to raise the possibility as Jim does to defend against it. Personally I don't think that cash flow is the root of the problems that are being reported, but I don't find it unreasonable for someone to wonder whether it played a role either. Bottom line is that if you put out a product with bugs, then you're going to take some shots.



People tripping over each other to attack someone who raised what seems
to me to be a reasonable concern extends far beyond "common human courtesy". And fanboys aren't exactly an undiscovered species in this genre either.


this is why i like you these days, Jon. i agree 142% w/ you.

this is the way it is in my book:

if someone puts a game out for free, then the person who plays the game has no right to complain about anything. but the moment one cent is charged, the customer aquires the right to voice their opinion and the developer inherits accountability.

i will say this to Bliztberger: quit while you're ahead. you've voiced your opinion (several times over), leave it at that. the way this community is - they'll goad you into shoveling your own grave. people are just waiting to pounce on you, and you unfortunately have not earned enough elite points here to work in your favor. we all know where you stand on this, and several of us here agree with you. the only thing left to do at this point is sit and wait, and if you don't like the sitting and waiting you have every right to let your wallet do the talking for you the next time a game is released. i for one am in no rush to buy the game. i will, but it'll be done at my own leisure. i don't agree with some of the things the company has done so i reserve my right to make him work and get the product up to speed just like how i had to wait for info on this game.

[Galaxy]

I have read other posts where people just trash Jim, I am not doing that.

I have read the posts where this forum trashed maximum football, not that I would buy that game, but you guys can not have it both ways..

Interesting....

http://www.matrixgames.com/FORUMS/showProfile.asp?memid=19466

[cartman]

Interesting....

http://www.matrixgames.com/FORUMS/showProfile.asp?memid=19466

hxxp://smallworldhannah.ytmnd.com/

[Axxon]

this is why i like you these days, Jon. i agree 142% w/ you.

this is the way it is in my book:

if someone puts a game out for free, then the person who plays the game has no right to complain about anything. but the moment one cent is charged, the customer aquires the right to voice their opinion and the developer inherits accountability.

i will say this to Bliztberger: quit while you're ahead. you've voiced your opinion (several times over), leave it at that. the way this community is - they'll goad you into shoveling your own grave. people are just waiting to pounce on you, and you unfortunately have not earned enough elite points here to work in your favor. we all know where you stand on this, and several of us here agree with you. the only thing left to do at this point is sit and wait, and if you don't like the sitting and waiting you have every right to let your wallet do the talking for you the next time a game is released. i for one am in no rush to buy the game. i will, but it'll be done at my own leisure. i don't agree with some of the things the company is done so i reserve my right to make him work and get the product up to speed just like how i had to wait for info on this game.

So, you buy a product and it gives you the right to say anything about the developer no matter whether it's truthful or has any relevance to the game because you've paid for a game? I don't get that logic. I mean, if you want to be a douchebag stand behind the first amendment, assuming it applies of course.

Selling a product is not in and of itself an open invitation for people to take shots at your personal life and that's really what I'm debating here, not criticizing the game or anything relating to the game which is fair game.

[JPhillips]

I don't understand the mentality of "I have a right to say anything I want and you have no right to respond."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Selling a product is not in and of itself an open invitation for people to take shots at your personal life and that's really what I'm debating here, not criticizing the game or anything relating to the game which is fair game.

Ah, but this isn't a random shot, this is an attempt to connect a pair of dots that were freely disclosed. (the relocation and the release date/state of the game/status of patches/et al)

That's where some of the "reasonability" I see comes into play. It isn't such any stretch at all IMO to think that there could be some connection. Remember now, I've already said that I don't personally believe that the two dots connect up well enough to make a straight line ... but I don't find the possibility even remotely hard to consider either.

Maybe it simply comes down to a matter of how much trust you put in somebody -- be that Jim, EA, Microsoft, Proctor & Gamble, or Joe's Hometown Paint & Body Shop.

In my experience, you'll be wrong far less often if you lean toward the worst possibility than if you steadfastly assume the best.

[Axxon]

Ah, but this isn't a random shot, this is an attempt to connect a pair of dots that were freely disclosed. (the relocation and the release date/state of the game/status of patches/et al)

That's where some of the "reasonability" I see comes into play. It isn't such any stretch at all IMO to think that there could be some connection. Remember now, I've already said that I don't personally believe that the two dots connect up well enough to make a straight line ... but I don't find the possibility even remotely hard to consider either.

Maybe it simply comes down to a matter of how much trust you put in somebody -- be that Jim, EA, Microsoft, Proctor & Gamble, or Joe's Hometown Paint & Body Shop.

In my experience, you'll be wrong far less often if you lean toward the worst possibility than if you steadfastly assume the best.

But publicly leaning towards the worst has far more harmful consequences against innocent people than publicly leaning towards the best and neither one has one inkling of a chance at getting a better or worse result than you're going to get already so again, human courtesy really should apply.

I remember a game ( but not the name of it unfortunately ) where the developer had a family crisis delay a patch and people were ripping him a new one for not placing the game ahead of his family. This case isn't quite as bad but it's heading down the same slippery slope.

[sabotai]

I remember a game ( but not the name of it unfortunately ) where the developer had a family crisis delay a patch and people were ripping him a new one for not placing the game ahead of his family. This case isn't quite as bad but it's heading down the same slippery slope.

I vaguely remember that. Wasn't that Gary with one of his releases a few years ago?

[Axxon]

I vaguely remember that. Wasn't that Gary with one of his releases a few years ago?

That sounds right but like you, I don't remember all the details. I was thinking either Gary or Shawn. Maybe someone will remember it better than we do.

[panerd]

I have bought every game and know Jim will patch...

actually, no i have never purchased a EA game.

Is this technically possible?

Signed...

A Gindin fanboy

[Axxon]

Is this technically possible?

Signed...

A Gindin fanboy


Great catch fanboy. :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

But publicly leaning towards the worst has far more harmful consequences against innocent people than publicly leaning towards the best

I guess then it would come down to whether somebody, well to put it bluntly, particularly gives a flying fuck ... which would be directly related in many cases to just how "innocent" you feel like the target is.

[Axxon]

I guess then it would come down to whether somebody, well to put it bluntly, particularly gives a flying fuck ... which would be directly related in many cases to just how "innocent" you feel like the target is.

So again, it boils down to basic human courtesy which is exactly what I'm saying. You don't have it apparantly, whether by choice or by other reasons. It's just a shame that folks like you are giving the souths reputation a bad name. ;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

So again, it boils down to basic human courtesy which is exactly what I'm saying. You don't have it apparantly, whether by choice or by other reasons.

You left out, by choice or for other reasons, the part about how "innocent" somebody is playing a role.

After all Axxon, if there wasn't a product released with flaws, would this thread even have existed?

[Axxon]

You left out, by choice or for other reasons, the part about how "innocent" somebody is playing a role.

After all Axxon, if there wasn't a product released with flaws, would this thread even have existed?


If there ever was a product released without flaws your argument would hold more water but that's the topic of a different discussion.

No, the feeling that someone is or is not "innocent" part plays zero role in whether something is or is not courteous. Expressing a potentially harmful opinion when all you have is a feeling is rude. I'm not sure how anyone can see it otherwise. You can call it justifiable, soothing or a host of other things but to say it isn't rude just doesn't make any sense.

[Flasch186]

in before the lock

[Sweed]

Is this technically possible?

Signed...

A Gindin fanboy

I guess what I don't understand is he has bought every Jim G. game and part of his complaint is with football season half over when the patch comes out he will have moved on to basketball. I take that to mean that he is losing playing time with the game and therefore value?

FOF2004 was the first version I bought. I bought it on release day and just looked up my receipt, date of purchase..

Date : 11/13/03 10:38:57 PM (GMT)

Don't recall when the first patch came but let's say it was quick and came on 11\20\03 (just one week after release). Today is only the 6th so to my way of thinking Jim still has 14 days to put v2007 in the same place v2003 was in relation to the current football season. So if Jim has a patch out before the 13th BB is definitely ahead of where he was in 2003, the game had just come out and had not been patched. If Jim releases a v2007 patch by the 20th he is more than likely still ahead of 2003.

Not saying he can't complain but for a guy with a history of buying "all" of Jim's games I'm not sure what he expected.

[Anthony]

ok, now you guys are getting into a "whose cock is bigger" routine, and i want no part of that.

the moral of the story is you guys were quick to jump on a paying customer who voiced his opinion on the company. did the guy make some rather large leaps in trying to surmise why the game was released in a state that was unsatisfactory to some? perhaps. i'm not here to poo-poo on someone's perfectly legit claim if they got beef. i mean, it's not like i can't see where this guy blitz is coming from. was it smart to release a game so soon to something as major as relocating to a different state, thereby preventing several patches (if required) within the proceeding 2 or 3 months? i don't know, it's not my company so it's not my place to say how smart (or not) that decision was.

on the flip side, the company has been rather upfront and honest about when to expect a patch, and how many are to be expected this year. such honesty is refreshing. i applaud that.

i'm not taking sides here. i don't currently own the game (i'm now leaning towards buying it as my MP league gets closer to requiring it, no rush on my part) so i will refrain from getting too vocal here - see, i don't have the game so i don't get to complain or comment, i haven't earned that right yet. just that i've seen these things played out many, many times before (being a FOFC member for a very long time) and the end result is a paying customer is shooed away like an annoying gnat or they're provoked into posting something that gets them banned. he legally purchased the game, short of insulting the developer's family or something i think he is allowed to voice his displeasure and air out his gripes.

[Axxon]

Date : 11/13/03 10:38:57 PM (GMT)

Don't recall when the first patch came but let's say it was quick and came on 11\20\03 (just one week after release). Today is only the 6th so to my way of thinking Jim still has 14 days to put v2007 in the same place v2003 was in relation to the current football season. So if Jim has a patch out before the 13th BB is definitely ahead of where he was in 2003, the game had just come out and had not been patched. If Jim releases a v2007 patch by the 20th he is more than likely still ahead of 2003.


Thanks, now my brain hurts. Is the answer 2/3? :D

[Axxon]

ok, now you guys are getting into a "whose cock is bigger" routine, and i want no part of that.

.

What I always wonder is why people, not you necessarily, see discussions that they aren't a part of as "whose cock is bigger" or otherwise overblow it into something it isn't like there's some huge war brewing that they have front row seats to.

I just don't get it. Is the world so devoid of drama that we need to manufacture it where it isn't?

[kingnebwsu]

In general, the quality of the release seems pretty high. There are a couple of bugs affecting free agency acquisition that need fixing badly enough to warrant an early patch. There are scoring issues related to touchdowns on punt plays and penalties that result in safeties. Everything else is fairly minor, many items carrying over from FOF 2004.

I don't think I released the game too early. I had a longer beta period with more testers than I've ever used before.

Yeah, I'm having some fun with my admittedly brief career so far. After doing some sims, most stats and such seem to be on target.

I think Jim really hit the nail on the head as far as assessment of his own game. It's a great sign when an independent game developer really "gets" his product and has accurate self-analysis. No showstopping bugs that I've seen so far, and I don't see any reason for the game to have been beta-tested any longer.

Looking forward to the first patch this weekend or anytime this month! :)

[14ers]

I have a general question about the patch release.

When the patch is released for FOF2007 will there be a list detailing all the items that are fixed with the new patch?

[Galaxy]

ok, now you guys are getting into a "whose cock is bigger" routine, and i want no part of that.

the moral of the story is you guys were quick to jump on a paying customer who voiced his opinion on the company. did the guy make some rather large leaps in trying to surmise why the game was released in a state that was unsatisfactory to some? perhaps. i'm not here to poo-poo on someone's perfectly legit claim if they got beef. i mean, it's not like i can't see where this guy blitz is coming from. was it smart to release a game so soon to something as major as relocating to a different state, thereby preventing several patches (if required) within the proceeding 2 or 3 months? i don't know, it's not my company so it's not my place to say how smart (or not) that decision was.

on the flip side, the company has been rather upfront and honest about when to expect a patch, and how many are to be expected this year. such honesty is refreshing. i applaud that.

i'm not taking sides here. i don't currently own the game (i'm now leaning towards buying it as my MP league gets closer to requiring it, no rush on my part) so i will refrain from getting too vocal here - see, i don't have the game so i don't get to complain or comment, i haven't earned that right yet. just that i've seen these things played out many, many times before (being a FOFC member for a very long time) and the end result is a paying customer is shooed away like an annoying gnat or they're provoked into posting something that gets them banned. he legally purchased the game, short of insulting the developer's family or something i think he is allowed to voice his displeasure and air out his gripes.

Problem is, his logic (his history of purchasing the game should give him some idea of the history of the product and Jim's support, and just a lack of knowledge of following any of the threads in regards to the bugs, fixing what is needed) and personal attacks (in regards to Jim's house and money) make him look like an arse.

[mrsimperless]

I have a general question about the patch release.

When the patch is released for FOF2007 will there be a list detailing all the items that are fixed with the new patch?


This is standard development practice and Jim has always followed it in the past. I don't see any reason why this patch would be any different.

[Ronde Barber]

I'm new to the game and i've bought my first FOF game last week. All i have to say is that i'm really impressed by the way Jim works.
I think FOF 2007 is a great game. I have to say that, even without any patch, it's probably one of the best (if not THE best) sport simulation game i've ever played.
But what makes me feel so good about my purchase is a thing that i find great in these days: the developer of the game comes here and asks for bugs. He comes here and want to know if people who bought the game are happy with his work. Well, let me say: that's working!!!!
I don't want to compare his way of working with the one of other companies. I'm not interested. I only want to say that he's doing the same thing i'd do if i was a programmer. And that's enough for me.
He's working on a patch that will probably be released within two weeks from the game's release...this is respect for us customers and also for his work (that is absolutely clear he loves).
So, in the end, good work Jim, and thank you.

[wade moore]

The game was just not ready to release.

You keep using this phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[RedKingGold]

I just think its funny that Blitzburger supports Daivd Winters at the MF forums, but trashes Jim here.

Did I fall into bizzaro world, or something?

[Ben E Lou]

Don't recall when the first patch came but let's say it was quick and came on 11\20\03 (just one week after release). Today is only the 6th so to my way of thinking Jim still has 14 days to put v2007 in the same place v2003 was in relation to the current football season. So if Jim has a patch out before the 13th BB is definitely ahead of where he was in 2003, the game had just come out and had not been patched. If Jim releases a v2007 patch by the 20th he is more than likely still ahead of 2003.

Not saying he can't complain but for a guy with a history of buying "all" of Jim's games I'm not sure what he expected.He's a troll, or has a piss-poor memory, or both. 5.0a was released on 11/22/2003 (LINK (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=17305&highlight=5.0a)). I guess he had "moved on to basketball" by the time of the 11/13/2003 release, though, so he wasn't bothered by it then. :rolleyes:

Just in case I have to act on this clown, I'd like to pre-emptively point out that it wouldn't be the first time I've suspended someone for a long period of time for a vicious and unfounded accusation against a developer. Someone already mentioned it. The developer was Gary, and the accusation was making up a death in the family as an excuse for delaying the release. Attack the product all you want (within reason), but there is no place here for unfounded and unsubstantiated personal attacks on developer integrity.

[Raiders Army]

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up, but wouldn't it have been logical for Jim to actually HYPE the game prior to release if he wanted to "steal" money from us? I mean, we get 24 hours notice that the game is going to be released. If all he wanted was money from us, shouldn't he have hyped it on this board, his website, done interviews, etc. if all he wanted was our money?

[Bee]

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up, but wouldn't it have been logical for Jim to actually HYPE the game prior to release if he wanted to "steal" money from us? I mean, we get 24 hours notice that the game is going to be released. If all he wanted was money from us, shouldn't he have hyped it on this board, his website, done interviews, etc. if all he wanted was our money?


It was a secret plan to steal our money and he didn't want us to know about it obviously...duh.

;)

[A-Husker-4-Life]

He's a troll, or has a piss-poor memory, or both. 5.0a was released on 11/22/2003 (LINK (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=17305&highlight=5.0a)). I guess he had "moved on to basketball" by the time of the 11/13/2003 release, though, so he wasn't bothered by it then. :rolleyes:

Just in case I have to act on this clown, I'd like to pre-emptively point out that it wouldn't be the first time I've suspended someone for a long period of time for a vicious and unfounded accusation against a developer. Someone already mentioned it. The developer was Gary, and the accusation was making up a death in the family as an excuse for delaying the release. Attack the product all you want (within reason), but there is no place for personal attacks on developer integrity.

Ban the troll, there is no place for him here on FOFC..

[Bee]

Ban the troll, there is no place for him here on FOFC..

I'm sure he'd be welcome in the werewolf forum.

[MizzouRah]

A whole thread dedicated to a troll, nice.

[Subby]

I am constantly amazed by folks who think taking an antagonistic approach with Jim (or anyone for that matter) is going to work better than being polite and respectful...

[CraigSca]

Unfortunately, this same antagonistic approach is used by these same people in their everyday lives. You know, not everyone is out to screw everyone else. This world would be a whole lot better if people realized that and were finally kind and respectful to each other.

[Bee]

Unfortunately, this same antagonistic approach is used by these same people in their everyday lives. You know, not everyone is out to screw everyone else. This world would be a whole lot better if people realized that and were finally kind and respectful to each other.


And it would also make it easier on those of us out to screw everyone.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And it would also make it easier on those of us out to screw everyone.

Score.